A polite reminder to people to think before you post

[+TABjuggler]

First off, I would like to say that certain recent situations have put a pretty bad taste in my mouth and I'm going to type out a little reminder to some of you so that hopefully you can do a little self reflection before you continue down the destructive path you have laid out.

 

Before I ever started posting on these forums, I met a fellow through the person that introduced me to geocaching. We were talking about geocaching and eventually the forums, and he started talking about how there was this big troll that lived in my area that had been making everyone angry on the forums. I thought to myself that that was weird since usually there isn't a single individual that is that singled out and ridiculed in a forum environment.

 

I've been on a lot of internet forums, that have ranged from places where I have to tread super lightly due to gratuitous over-modding to places that are self-policed by users and there are no major issues (with very limited trolling present).

 

However, what is present on this forum is a situation that I had not previously dealt with. The people that make up this forum come from a large range of demographics, ages, professions, and walks of life. Even with this unusual make up of forum-goers, a large percentage of this usebase likes to treat this forum like it was like any other forum where bullying people, posting off topic "witty" comments, and being the first person to show how smart you are by linking 9 threads where the topic has already been discussed is okay.

 

The community here is small, but it seems like a lot of you have this really elitist air about your posts that causes really unfortunate situations to occur. To someone who is unfamiliar with many other forums, your posts have a high likelihood of scaring away potential new active posters. This hurts the community.

 

I'll start with ashnikes. You guys are ridiculous to focus so much attention on this guy. It has literally blinded you. It got to the point where some of you thought it fit to accuse someone who IMO was obviously NOT ashnikes to be a forum troll. Not only that... none of you have met the guy, yet you have such strong animosity towards him! The only thing I know about the guy is that he has ideas. I have seen him make a lot of constructive observations about the game and things that can be done by us to make it a higher quality overall. In addition, I have done a multi-cache that he created. It was well thought out and a lot of fun, and left me wondering why you all have such hatred towards him?

 

Take a step back for a second.... what seems more likely, that ashnikes created another forum identity, and posted what seemed to be a legitimate call for advice or that the call for advice was actually real? Use some critical thinking skills before you post. Ask yourself a couple questions.

 

"If I am wrong, how will this caustic post come off to someone that comes from a completely different walk of life than me" - remember that others do not think the same way you do

"Is this post likely to make someone very uncomfortable, upset, or even sad" - why the need to bring another down, are you really that insecure?

"Is this post inappropriate for a child to be reading"

 

If those questions are not going through your head every time you post YOU ARE WRONG. You have no excuse for behavior like this and each and every one of you needs to look deep inside yourself and ask yourself "Is this worth it". Is it really worth posting some off topic banter, feeding a troll, calling out a troll, insulting someone, and in the case of the recent issue (make an old woman cry)?

 

NO, it ABSOLUTELY isn't. Use self restraint every time you almost make one of the above types of posts.

 

I could have joined in many times with a lot of your off topic babble, but I have been consciously making a decision to not be like that on this forum. These forums are a different beast and people should try to keep that in mind.

 

People not familiar to the hobby may get their first impressions from the forums. What I have mostly seen so far, is people with less than 10 posts trying to contribute (only to be shot down as someone links 9 threads they *should* have searched for - but you know they won't ... .so why remind them with condescension?) or I have seen people crying about ashnikes thread after thread after thread.

 

In between that is a great community and some great topics that I have enjoyed reading, thinking about, and posting in. What we need to do is have those types of threads shine through and keep the negativity to a minimum. One bad thread stands out more than 10 brilliant threads.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this latest issue was the last straw for me not posting about it. Thanks to everyone that makes these forums awesome!

[+Mezgrman]

Could we get this pinned? Especially for newbies, but also for the "older" posters this is a good guide!

[+DeepButi]

I have been on dozens of forums (working on IT for more than 30 years you end up on a lot of them) and I have to agree 120% with the OP. It's "often" one of the most unfriendly ones I know if you have not a special skin.

[earthcurrent]

Welcome to the internets. Consequences will never be the same.

[YAYALEC]

Welcome to the internets. Consequences will never be the same.

 

Be careful the cyberpolice are watching

[earthcurrent]

Be careful the cyberpolice are watching

Impossible. I can't be backtraced. I am behind 7 proxies.

[YAYALEC]

Be careful the cyberpolice are watching

Impossible. I can't be backtraced. I am behind 7 proxies.

 

Well YOU DUN GOOFD the cyberpolice can backtrace through 10 proxies

[+jeffbouldin]

Very well put, TABjuggler! Even if someone turns out to be a troll it does not help the situation to pile on abuse. If you think the poster is a troll don't reply. If you think others are being taken in, let it go. Does it really matter? Its not like anyone is going to get hurt by showing a little kindness to another on the forums.

[+Snoogans]

First off,

 

Hmmmmm, I'll weigh in.

 

I don't care for the omega dog thing that happens here from time to time from folks that perceive themselves as alpha dogs, but it's not as rampant as you make it sound in your OP, nor is it all that bad.

 

I don't normally make mentionen of people's joined on dates, but in your time here, I can understand how that could be your perception. Frequency has been high the last couple of months.

 

Brevity being the key to good communication yours is one of the better loooong finger waggling posts I've seen here and you have made some good points I hope the alpha dogs take to heart.

 

"Is this post inappropriate for a child to be reading"

 

However, this is where your OP jumped the shark for me. If a parent lets their child loose on the computer unsupervised, they reap what they sew. IMO

 

This is an adult forum in an all volunteer sport that was created for and totally maintained by adults. It's absurd to think it should be politically correct and child proof at all times.

 

In a community such as this friendships happen. As such a certain amount of off topic posting must be expected and tolerated. **Snoog raises a hand and introduces himself as a frequent off topic poster.**

 

I have been around this forum since 2003 and I'm one of the few from my local geocaching continuum who braves these waters often. That said, I have a very thick skin and the folks that I know that express distaste for this forum either don't have a thick skin, or they seek out only those whose opinions jibe with their own. Personally, my favorite posters are the ones whose opinions differ from mine, because I never learned much from folks that agree with me.

[+briansnat]

However, what is present on this forum is a situation that I had not previously dealt with. The people that make up this forum come from a large range of demographics, ages, professions, and walks of life. Even with this unusual make up of forum-goers, a large percentage of this usebase likes to treat this forum like it was like any other forum where bullying people, posting off topic "witty" comments, and being the first person to show how smart you are by linking 9 threads where the topic has already been discussed is okay.

 

Actually I see a very small percentage of the people here doing any bullying. Expressing a contrary opinion is not bullying.

 

I don't see a problem with the occasional, off topic witty comment. Geocaching is fun, there is no reason the forums have to be a staid place. It can get out of hand (I find the Monty Python wannabes sprinkling "Ni" in nearly every thread annoying), but I don't see anything wrong with a little levity.

 

As far as linking to other threads, I see it as a plus. There is a wealth of information here and some issues have been discussed many times. Many of those discussions contain valuable information, so I see linking to previous discussions as a service to anyone who is interested in that topic.

[+Ike 13]

I almost added something to the other thread, that this one references, last night. I just bit my tongue and moved on. I wish more people would do that sometimes in situations like that. I've been here over a year and a half and this summer is like the summer of discontent. Maybe it's the heatwave, but there's a lot of animosity over ashnikes. His original persona didn't bother me, but his many sock accounts do. That being said if someone asks a legit question, you should give them a legit answer and move on.

 

I do agree with briansnat that the posts by markwell and kit fox (and others) that link to previous threads are not bad, but very good. I'm pretty sure neither of them is being condescending. If you ask a question and you get 9 threads with multiple answers you get a great record of the discussions that already have taken place.

[+t4e]

@TABjuggler

 

while i agree that sometimes the atmosphere can be "caustic" the level of "policing" you are looking for is not going to happen

there is no way to eliminate off topic comments, and many times moderators pop in and make a comment about such things

yes, too many off topic, witty remarks can be annoying but sometimes they relax a tense situation

 

you do need a certain level of "thick skin" in forums, its the same everywhere

you need to learn to read and acknowledge only what is of interest to you

there is an "ignore user" feature available if worse comes to worse

 

i see though too many people that are super sensitive, misinterpret and twist every reply given to them

if they don't hear what they want to, they think everyone is condescending

if you come asking a question be prepared for both sides

we are all individuals with an opinion, sometimes different than that of the poster

 

replying by posting multiple past threads about the subject?

 

ooh my, if anything those that do it should be commended...do you realize how hard it is to dig them all up, when the search function is so poor?

besides as its been said already, there is useful information in existing threads, and avoids duplication

 

the kind of replies someone gets, is directly connected to the way they introduce/present themselves in the forums

when you get someone that just signed up coming in here with an attitude of superiority, pointing out that everything that has stood for 10 years is actually a piece of crap, they will get the appropriate replies

 

so the "think before you post" applies to those that make and entrance too, not only to those that reply

 

in the internet environment where there is lack of a face to face and observing someone's body language or hearing their tone, is hard to tell if they are joking or being sarcastic, unfortunately many forget that and don't choose their words appropriately

[+Chokecherry]

There is mixed problem with the off topic posts and the forum search function. One could search all they wanted for an answer to their question and end up in a thread where there are 4 pages of bickering, inside jokes and off topic comments. Then go to the next suggested thread in the same search and find the same thing. Not everyone has the time to wade through pages of posts just to find the one post with the answer they desire in it. This isn't unique to this forum, though.

 

I've been in and out of internet forums for years. This isn't the worst I've seen for behavior issues but it's not the best either. And I'm horrified about what happened here with the recent thread because there was no reason for that at all. I don't care if the answer was in the first few posts or not. There was no excuse for what happened. People's feelings should not purposely get hurt because they happen to wander into the wrong forum, on the wrong day with the wrong mix of people. It's embarrassing for the rest of us who try to put out a good face for this hobby. And if this is the message we are sending out to new people that is wrong.

[+buttaskotch]

 

This is an adult forum in an all volunteer sport that was created for and totally maintained by adults. It's absurd to think it should be politically correct and child proof at all times.

 

While I agree with this being an adult forum, and that not all should be politically correct. Intolerance can be taken too far. While you cannot and should not post any racist connotations on these forums, some have entered in poor behavior with sexist comments and extremely questionable ways of pertaining to the GLBT community. Which I find appalling and have said such in a particular flame war I had with a local cacher. Granted, I wasn't aware of all the derogatory ways of referring to this segment of our populace but it was still offensive and showed a high level of intolerance. Did the posters want to out themselves as intolerant? Did the think about, or even care that their "off topic" jokes/derogatory comments are highly offensive or even considered illegal in many municipalities? This isn't 4chan where everyone is running rampant, we are self moderated and to keep it this way we need to take a step back and think about our actions.

 

Therefore, I concur with TABJuggler that a re-read prior and post, posting would be a good rule of thumb. As such, I pledge I will do that. However, while there were a few posts that the cacher in question were constructive, an overwhelming were not and many degenerated with his helping it along to its bitter end. This cacher did nothing to help himself and was cautioned by a few posters, given good answers to his OP which he declined to take, all the while he simply ignored warnings. You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped.

[+t4e]

And I'm horrified about what happened here with the recent thread because there was no reason for that at all. I don't care if the answer was in the first few posts or not. There was no excuse for what happened. People's feelings should not purposely get hurt because they happen to wander into the wrong forum, on the wrong day with the wrong mix of people. It's embarrassing for the rest of us who try to put out a good face for this hobby. And if this is the message we are sending out to new people that is wrong.

 

i have no idea which thread that was, i must have been out caching all day

[+JL_HSTRE]

ashnikes questions and ideas were not without merit, but he REALLY needed to learn to improve his delivery. You can't go anywhere and be confrontation in your delivery and have a calm, reasonable discussion. (See most modern cable TV "news")

 

That said, some members of the forums need to be way less snappy at new members. Every new poster is not a sock puppet - probably very very few are.

 

EDIT: Stumbled across the forum thread in question. Geez, people - stop seeing trolls and sock puppets everywhere.

 

And making a reply consisting of nothing but the word "Ni!" seems completely pointless. And yes I get the reference.

Edited August 1, 2010 by joshism

[knowschad]

replying by posting multiple past threads about the subject?

 

ooh my, if anything those that do it should be commended...do you realize how hard it is to dig them all up, when the search function is so poor?

I think that all depends on how its done. Sometimes that can seem to have all of the snarkiness of a "Let Me Google That For You" link ("Geesh!... don't you know how to use the search feature?!?") But just a little lead-in text to show that you are trying to be friendly and helpful can go a long way.

[+Destitute]

.....

Edited August 1, 2010 by Destitute

[+tozainamboku]

Could we get this pinned? Especially for newbies, but also for the "older" posters this is a good guide!

The top of every page has a link Read the Forum Guidelines. What makes you think that having the OP's post pinned would get it read more that that?

 

I posted only one reply to ashnikes that I can recall. It was way back when he first started. It basically was about the newbies who come on the forums to tell us how the game should be played (or how the forums should be run). For the most part we have a great community here. Most people will make newbies feel welcome, if they are asking resonable questions or sharing there experiences geocaching. When they began to ask for changes in the things get done, we get suspicious. What are there real motivations? Unfortunately, some of the regulars have gotten into the habit of assuming everyone of these post is a troll. They regularly look up peoples finds and hides or search for post with similar writing styles in hope of uncovering a sock puppet.

 

The moderators have posted in the other thread. I assume they have given some warnings. I don't know what effect it will have. Hopefully, people will think before jumping to conclusions. Read the Forum Guidelines. If you think someone has violated them, use the Report button. The moderators do a good job of handling the problems, but they can't be everywhere on the board all the time.

[+briansnat]

And I'm horrified about what happened here with the recent thread because there was no reason for that at all. I don't care if the answer was in the first few posts or not. There was no excuse for what happened. People's feelings should not purposely get hurt because they happen to wander into the wrong forum, on the wrong day with the wrong mix of people. It's embarrassing for the rest of us who try to put out a good face for this hobby. And if this is the message we are sending out to new people that is wrong.

 

i have no idea which thread that was, i must have been out caching all day

 

I assume he is referring to the thread from the gardener who complained about getting her plants trashed because of a geocache. Personally I don't see any reason to be horrified. Nor do I see it as newbie trashing as several called it.

 

The OP came here with a complaint. She received a number of respectful responses and because some people noticed inconsistencies in her story they confused her for a known troll who has been peppering the forums using sock puppets lately. Turned out that it wasn't a troll.

 

It was nothing horrible, it was a simple case of misunderstanding on the part of some people who were a bit oversensitive to the recent rampant sock puppet trolling from one individual and an earnest poster who was a bit oversensitive about being confused for a troll.

Edited August 1, 2010 by briansnat

[knowschad]

You know, those of you who say that you don't post here very often because of the mood that you perceive ... why not post here and help to make things better? To simply say that it is too hostile here, so you're going to leave, does nothing to improve the place. Stick around. Be a buffer. Be the first to welcome the new guy with kind and helpful words! We'd love to have you here!!

 

Ashnikes, for what its worth, brought his troubles on himself. He was politely asked to tone things down, to stop posting threads with trollish subjects, and was warned by moderators. He was given time out, and came back after it without apparently learning anything. Later vacations had him trying to get around the ban by creating sock puppet accounts. To use him as an example of how bad things are here is just plain wrong.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

When you join any new Forum you should watch and read for awhile before posting (Unless you joined because you need an answer quick).

 

That gives you a chance to see how people post, who you tend to agree with most often and disagree with most often. Who is always helpful etc. By the time you make your first post you should know what to expect.

[+briansnat]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

 

I've been here for a few years and I'm not seeing this rampant flaming of newbies. Newbies who come here with earnest questions are treated quite well. People will fall all over each other to provide assistance. Sure one or two people are bound to post flip or curt comments, but that really isn't flaming.

 

The only time I see newbies treated poorly is when they start off with a combative, accusatory, or scolding tone, or if they are an obvious troll.

 

And sometimes people see flaming where there isn't any. A few weeks ago a newbie posted here and about half a dozen people responded with polite, well thought out posts explaining why he was wrong (I forget the subject). He then followed with a rant about the "rude" reception he received, which left nearly everybody involved in the thread scratching their heads. Some people simply have very thin skin and see any disagreement as a personal attack.

 

Disagreement ≠ flaming

Curt ≠ rude

[AZcachemeister]

 

The only time I see newbies treated poorly is when they start off with a combative, accusatory, or scolding tone, or if they are an obvious troll.

 

Disagreement ≠ flaming

Curt ≠ rude

 

Those who come here intent on stirring the pot are likely to get stirred to the bottom themselves.

You can quote me on that.

 

Too bad about the squash lady, but she DID receive some quality advice at the beginning.

[+t4e]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

 

i think you should go read first and understand what "flaming" is before using such a strong word

 

while there may be some harsh replies, there is absolutely no flaming going on here

[knowschad]

 

Too bad about the squash lady, but she DID receive some quality advice at the beginning.

What bothered me more than anything, I think, was speaking about her in the third person, and all the analysis that went on about why she might or might not be who some suspected. I winced when I thought about her coming back and reading those posts, and sure enough... she did. Kind of blew all that "quality advice" clean out of the water.

[+roziecakes]

You know, those of you who say that you don't post here very often because of the mood that you perceive ... why not post here and help to make things better? To simply say that it is too hostile here, so you're going to leave, does nothing to improve the place. Stick around. Be a buffer. Be the first to welcome the new guy with kind and helpful words! We'd love to have you here!!

 

Ashnikes, for what its worth, brought his troubles on himself. He was politely asked to tone things down, to stop posting threads with trollish subjects, and was warned by moderators. He was given time out, and came back after it without apparently learning anything. Later vacations had him trying to get around the ban by creating sock puppet accounts. To use him as an example of how bad things are here is just plain wrong.

 

+1 million!

 

I am reminded of the old fable of the blind men and the elephant. Each one was touching a different part of the elephant, and each left with his own incorrect perception of what an elephant was, but never saw the whole elephant.

 

I think that if a new person comes to the forums and sees some drama, they may freak out and leave thinking that the forums are all full of drama. I did then when I first started using the forums, and then I lurked... and then I realized that the forums are a lively and dynamic experience.

 

You may experience drama, you may experience a lot of fun, you may learn something, you may find many who agree and many who disagree with you.

 

A little off-topic banter is what keeps things interesting. I have gotten some serious laughs from the jokes on this board. So yes, stay, try your best. I try my best to be friendly; but as a human being sometimes I get my feathers ruffled, and sometimes I get irritated by someone's posts.

 

Ashnikes specifically really bugged the crud out of me, but I tried my best to give him the best answers that I could 99% of the time. I thought the sock puppet stuff was WAAY out of line, especially since he was making fun of a certain type of person while acting as said sock puppets. Really uncool.

 

I moderate a religious forum, and have been using forums since the mid-90s. Heated discussions, debate, and disagreements are regular parts of all forums. As t4e mentioned, you can't see the body language or facial expressions of those who are posting; and you can't hear their tone of voice.

 

Communication in this way is touchy, and those who are sensitive to begin with may assume the worst when someone says something that disagrees with their perspective. Just remember, disagreeing does not mean that someone hates you, or that they are elitist, or that they are trying to insult you.

 

Sometimes those folks who have been doing this for much longer really do know more. What's wrong with that? We all have to start somewhere, and I appreciate the wisdom about this game so very much. Sometimes that's a lesson that I myself need to learn. I get sensitive about it. Like the other day, I thought that sbell was trying to be a snot; and I was completely wrong. I took responsibility for my misinterpretation and moved on. We're all human.

 

To the OP: give things a little more of a chance. I promise you that many of us do think before we post.

[knowschad]

You know, those of you who say that you don't post here very often because of the mood that you perceive ... why not post here and help to make things better? To simply say that it is too hostile here, so you're going to leave, does nothing to improve the place. Stick around. Be a buffer. Be the first to welcome the new guy with kind and helpful words! We'd love to have you here!!

 

Ashnikes, for what its worth, brought his troubles on himself. He was politely asked to tone things down, to stop posting threads with trollish subjects, and was warned by moderators. He was given time out, and came back after it without apparently learning anything. Later vacations had him trying to get around the ban by creating sock puppet accounts. To use him as an example of how bad things are here is just plain wrong.

 

+1 million!

Wow!! I think the most I ever got before was +5. I'm awestruck!!

[+roziecakes]

 

+1 million!

Wow!! I think the most I ever got before was +5. I'm awestruck!!

 

Actually, you're one of my favorite posters on this forum. Even when you post things I don't agree with you have a way with words that I do not have and I admire that. I wish I could put my thoughts out as clearly as you do.

 

In this case, you said what something similar to what I wanted to say, only a lot better than I could have said it.

[Pup Patrol]

 

I've been here for a few years and I'm not seeing this rampant flaming of newbies. Newbies who come here with earnest questions are treated quite well. People will fall all over each other to provide assistance. Sure one or two people are bound to post flip or curt comments, but that really isn't flaming.

 

The only time I see newbies treated poorly is when they start off with a combative, accusatory, or scolding tone, or if they are an obvious troll.

 

And sometimes people see flaming where there isn't any. A few weeks ago a newbie posted here and about half a dozen people responded with polite, well thought out posts explaining why he was wrong (I forget the subject). He then followed with a rant about the "rude" reception he received, which left nearly everybody involved in the thread scratching their heads. Some people simply have very thin skin and see any disagreement as a personal attack.

 

Disagreement ≠ flaming

Curt ≠ rude

 

+1

 

This is a well established, long-time community. Newbs, legitimate newbs, are definitely NOT flamed.

 

A lot of people come onto the main forum, spouting their wisdom about how things should change, after participating in the caching game for only a few weeks. They haven't experienced a wide variety of types of caches, and base their opinions on a very narrow focus.

 

What has been perceived as "flaming" is the refusal of experienced cachers to jump on a bandwagon, and nod stupidly while posting "I agree". It's been shown that having a different opinion is perceived as "flaming", when it's nothing more than pointing out a different viewpoint.

 

The unfortunate existence/forum trolling of "he who shall not be named" (cuz he used so many different names) has put me off posting in the forums, right when I was finally getting back into it. I've been loathe to post in the "Getting Started" forum for fear of feeding a troll's need for attention.

 

If there had been an immediate stop to that troll's behaviour/livelihood on the forums, that would have nipped a lot of subsequent problems in the bud.

 

This forum, and its subforums, is not unfriendly overall. There are a few forum regulars who have "personal issues" with each other. Unfortunately, those folks can't seem to stop themselves from constantly needling at the "other person".

 

But there is not a serious problem overall, as far as I can see. I've been reading these forums for a long time, and I know sometimes that "curt" can indeed sometimes translate into "rude". It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Pup Patrol

[+briansnat]

As t4e mentioned, you can't see the body language or facial expressions of those who are posting; and you can't hear their tone of voice.

 

Communication in this way is touchy, and those who are sensitive to begin with may assume the worst when someone says something that disagrees with their perspective. Just remember, disagreeing does not mean that someone hates you, or that they are elitist, or that they are trying to insult you.

 

Without visual clues such as a twinkle in the eye, a smile, wink, etc. or verbal clues such as tone of voice, written communication can be problematic.

 

Last night I received an e-mail (I assume in response to this thread) from a person who told me a post of mine in response to one of his when he was a newbie essentially drove him from the forums 3 years ago. Curious, I went back and found the post. Re-reading it I saw nothing wrong with it. It was an obvious joke. Well obvious to any person who has spent time in these forums. It wasn't so obvious to a newbie. Perhaps the simple addition of a smiley at the end of it might have changed his perception of my post.

 

A few weeks ago one forum regular commented about my lack of a sense of humor and another forum regular responded that the other regular must have been reading a different person's posts.

 

And last week I posted a joke thread over in OT and some people took it seriously. When I protested, someone blamed my "track record" in the forums as the reason so many took it wrong. Coincidentally, the same week I received an e-mail from a total stranger (apparently a lurker here) thanking me for brightening his days with with my humorous posts and telling me how much he appreciated my sense of humor.

 

Two people reading the same posts and getting completely opposite impressions from them. Without the visual and verbal queues, people filter the written word using their personal disposition and prejudices.

Edited August 2, 2010 by briansnat

[+Castle Mischief]

Forest for the trees.

[+BulldogBlitz]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

[+Castle Mischief]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

 

Nothing like sacasm laced with apathy to prove a point.

 

This is the fifth thread I've seen in three years like this. They have all ended up the same. Old-timers telling the OP that "there's no rudeness and hostility" followed by a stream of examples of rudeness and hostility.

 

Clearly, there is a problem. Is it too much to ask for just a smidgen less of in-your-face I'm-on-the-internet-so-it-doesn't-matter attitude??

[+BuckeyeClan]

I don’t post much, but I’ve lurked for quite a while, so I can kinda see both sides. Most of the “bad behavior” I see is annoying, or trying to be witty, rather than outright mean-ness. Inside jokes and humorous banter certainly have a place, but be careful when it’s on a newbie’s thread. It can get annoying to have to wade through 20 posts of back-and-forth just to get to the on-topic stuff. And inside jokes can leave a newbie feeling left out, and perhaps wondering “is it me that their laughing at?” (I still don’t really get the hamster stuff! ) When I first started reading the forums, I thought that posting links to other threads seemed rude, but can now see why it’s not. As knowschad said, how you deliver the information can make a difference. Another thing that I found really disconcerting at first is the way forum regulars will look at a person’s profile and search their logs to gather information. Sometimes a newbie posts something about a cache, trying to be general, and pretty soon somebody has read through all their recent logs and ferreted out the specific cache they are discussing. I’m not saying that it’s wrong, just that a newbie probably doesn’t expect it, and may suddenly feel very exposed and uncomfortable. And finally, conversations move fast here, and some people may only check the forums once a day. Non-regulars may not post much because, by the time they’ve read the thread, the question has already been answered 14 different ways and they don’t feel that they have anything new to contribute. Keep this in mind, too, if a newbie (or anybody, really) doesn’t respond to posts right away. They may not be ignoring you, they may just be busy.

 

Briansnat, I have to comment on your post above. Ever since I started reading the forums, your posts have stood out to me as being smart and helpful, with a touch of humor. I’ve always thought of you as being the cacher LEAST likely to offend anyone. Though I do remember an OP getting upset a while ago because of a joking response you posted to their thread. It really stuck in my brain because I thought it the perfect illustration of somebody getting offended when clearly no offense was intended.

[knowschad]

oh brother...

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too...

Not a bad idea at all.

[+briansnat]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

 

Nothing like sacasm laced with apathy to prove a point.

 

This is the fifth thread I've seen in three years like this. They have all ended up the same. Old-timers telling the OP that "there's no rudeness and hostility" followed by a stream of examples of rudeness and hostility.

 

Clearly, there is a problem. Is it too much to ask for just a smidgen less of in-your-face I'm-on-the-internet-so-it-doesn't-matter attitude??

 

This is a good example. There are 35 posts in this thread, and less a few silly posts, it's all polite, thoughtful discussion. Then one person posts something marginally hostile (personally I thought he was expressing exasperation, rather than hostility) and it's "See, the forums ARE a hostile place"

Edited August 2, 2010 by briansnat

[+BulldogBlitz]

Is it too much to ask for just a smidgen less of in-your-face I'm-on-the-internet-so-it-doesn't-matter attitude??

 

here's something just for that... it won't hurt you if you fall on it. it won't hurt to bite into it. it won't hurt to see it in a thread.

 

[knowschad]

I don't post much, but I've lurked for quite a while,

You should consider posting more... that was a helpful, well-written post. We need more like you here.

[+BuckeyeClan]

I don't post much, but I've lurked for quite a while,

You should consider posting more... that was a helpful, well-written post. We need more like you here.

 

Thank you! That was kind. It's not out of fear that I don't post--I'm pretty hard to offend, really. It's more that I don't log in frequently, and the topics that I feel that I can contribute to usually get a good answer before I arrive. For some reason I'm drawn to these forums, though. I might get busy and not check in for months at a time, but I end up coming back. Must not be TOO bad of a place if I keep coming back, I'm not the type to be drawn to drama for drama's sake.

[+BuckeyeClan]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

 

That depends...does honking serve an actual purpose? If it is to alert them to something so they don't create an accident, then honk away! If you are just expressing frustration, then honking may do more harm than good, and "thinking" first would be a very good idea.

[+GeoGeeBee]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

 

Horse hockey.*

 

Everyone who posts on here was a newbie once. I was a newbie not very long ago. I have NEVER been flamed in this forum.

 

This place is tame compared to most internet forums. The rules for being welcomed here aren't different from any other forum. For that matter, they aren't any different from real life. Read before posting. Listen before speaking. Don't inject yourself into a conversation when you don't know what the topic is. Don't try to appear to be an expert when you aren't. Don't ask a question unless you actually want to hear the answer. If the answer isn't what you were hoping it would be, don't take it personally.

 

*This is intended to express my disagreement with the idea that newbies get flamed. It is in no way intended to be a personal attack on the person to whom I am replying. Expressing disagreement with a person's ideas is not "flaming."

Edited August 2, 2010 by GeoGeeBee

[knowschad]

There's a lot of great info on this site. It's just a hostile place towards new players. That's a shame, but oh well. i'd advise newbs to read the forums but not post if you don't want to get flamed.

 

Horse hockey.

 

Everyone who posts on here was a newbie once. I was a newbie not very long ago. I have NEVER been flamed in this forum.

 

This place is tame compared to most internet forums. The rules for being welcomed here aren't different from any other forum. For that matter, they aren't any different from real life. Read before posting. Listen before speaking. Don't inject yourself into a conversation when you don't know what the topic is. Don't try to appear to be an expert when you aren't. Don't ask a question unless you actually want to hear the answer. If the answer isn't what you were hoping it would be, don't take it personally.

 

Great post, except for the first two words.

[hoosier guy]

To those who dismiss out of hand the idea that these forums can be hostile the question must be asked, then why does this subject come up with such regularity? When I first started posting regularly I noticed it. Others have as well. 99.99% of the people on here seem like they enjoy the interaction and are fine folks. There are a few with a seemingly paternal and proprietary attitude when it comes to the forum.

 

But I recognize that in a population this large you are going to get all types of people. We would not all get along in person and we will not all get along on the forum. That having been said tipping at windmills for civility does no harm.

[Mr.Yuck]

Welcome to the internets. Consequences will never be the same.

 

This is true. Just last month I was generically discussing "soft coordinates" in my area. Someone else from my area posted a cache name (unintentionally) so then the cache could be identified. Then someone had the bright idea to write a find log that mentioned the unique cache name came up in Google searches. Well then, the cache owner decided to Google it, and came here and unleashed a tongue lashing. That thread died pretty quickly though.

 

So yes, the internets have consequences. I don't feel half as bad as the girl from an indie band I like. When you Google her name, the first hit is a somewhat explicit interview she did 10 years ago about the sex life of herself and her then boyfriend from a well-known indie band. I'll bet she wants that one back.

[+Castle Mischief]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

 

Nothing like sacasm laced with apathy to prove a point.

 

This is the fifth thread I've seen in three years like this. They have all ended up the same. Old-timers telling the OP that "there's no rudeness and hostility" followed by a stream of examples of rudeness and hostility.

 

Clearly, there is a problem. Is it too much to ask for just a smidgen less of in-your-face I'm-on-the-internet-so-it-doesn't-matter attitude??

 

This is a good example. There are 35 posts in this thread, and less a few silly posts, it's all polite, thoughtful discussion. Then one person posts something marginally hostile (personally I thought he was expressing exasperation, rather than hostility) and it's "See, the forums ARE a hostile place"

 

Thank you for following the pattern.

 

Would you prefer that I link to one of the threads where you and a single other poster go back and forth for 20 posts about a subject that neither of you can agree to disagree on? There are quite a few. How do you think that looks for a newcomer to see that kind of posting from somebody with the word "moderator" under their name?

[+lachupa]

clealry I missed some drama

I hate missing drama

 

as for the subject at hand, tis the nature of internet forums

People say things online that they would never say in person. You have to have a thick skin and learn to ignore it.

 

Also there are times when things come across differently than they were intended. there is no sarcastic font so it happens.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Great post, except for the first two words.

 

Thanks. I've edited my post to address your concerns.

[+briansnat]

oh brother...

 

shall we "think" before we honk our horn at someone on the freeway too... lest we hurt their one remaining feeling?

 

Nothing like sacasm laced with apathy to prove a point.

 

This is the fifth thread I've seen in three years like this. They have all ended up the same. Old-timers telling the OP that "there's no rudeness and hostility" followed by a stream of examples of rudeness and hostility.

 

Clearly, there is a problem. Is it too much to ask for just a smidgen less of in-your-face I'm-on-the-internet-so-it-doesn't-matter attitude??

 

This is a good example. There are 35 posts in this thread, and less a few silly posts, it's all polite, thoughtful discussion. Then one person posts something marginally hostile (personally I thought he was expressing exasperation, rather than hostility) and it's "See, the forums ARE a hostile place"

 

Thank you for following the pattern.

 

Would you prefer that I link to one of the threads where you and a single other poster go back and forth for 20 posts about a subject that neither of you can agree to disagree on? There are quite a few. How do you think that looks for a newcomer to see that kind of posting from somebody with the word "moderator" under their name?

 

If you think my post is hostile then what can I say but, I guess this is a hostile place and I'm a hostile guy.