OK, Who really asks permission-officially?

[+arprodeo]

Hey cache gurus, java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_24') OK, Who really asks permission-officially? I've been happily caching for awhile, and now, after 121 finds, feel ready to place a very well considered, well crafted puzzle cache near my home in a town park that can be well maintained by me. (To me it feels like I'm getting a pet). I called my caching friend who is an elected official in town and he tells me to contact the rec supervisor. When I do, he has tons of questions, which I answer very throughly with an email, and even a great letter I found on this site having to do with explaining and asking permission for placing caches. Then I get a call from the supervisor saying that the town board has to vote on it, and can I also come in to give a presentation to answer more questions at a town board meeting where the town supervisor will be present. I feel like I'm being targeted by the muggles. My real question is, Have any of you had to go through this just to ask to hide a cache? There are HUNDREDS of caches all over the place here, obviously I have to be one of the few who have asked permission, there are caches all over the town parks, and no one "in charge" seems to know about it. java script:emoticon('',%20'smid_10')

[+Bear and Ragged]

The up side is, they sound as if they are interested in a cache being placed.

They haven't said "No!"

 

Good Luck!

[+StarBrand]

It happens.

 

I've asked and been told 'no'. I've asked and been told 'yes'.

 

I hate to say it but sometimes on public lands - what they don't know just doesn't hurt them.

 

Always ask on private land.

[+Team Cotati]

Anza-Borrego Desert State Park

[+kunarion]

Have any of you had to go through this just to ask to hide a cache? There are HUNDREDS of caches all over the place here, obviously I have to be one of the few who have asked permission, there are caches all over the town parks, and no one "in charge" seems to know about it.

I'd swear you need different people "in charge" in New York state townships. Seems like a bunch of little Napoleon wannabes.

[+Colonial Cats]

I think it's better to ask permission. You have a great opportunity to spread the Geocaching Word. Stress that this is a family oriented activity and is already more wide spread in your area than they realize. Talk about CITO and the other positive effects of geocaching. Organize an event at the Park to show them what a wholesome activity it is. Print materials available on-line and distribute them to the town council. Take council members geocaching with you so that they may have first hand experience. Bring in other cachers from your area for further support. Once you get permission, be the model geocacher so that they will not regret giving you permission. Good luck!

[+va griz]

Maybe you could look at it as an opportunity to do a favor to other local cachers. After you go through the inquisition a couple times, and the city realizes how benign the activity is, you could come up with the surprising suggestion that they could save a lot of time and trouble by passing a one time policy instead of approving each cache. You could be a caching hero!

[+briansnat]

This site requires "adequate permission". What that means is often for the cache hider to determine. In areas that require express permission, then only express permission is adequate. Same for private property.

 

In public parks that have no permission policy, many geocachers take that as tacit or implied permission.

 

Since you've started the process, consider getting your local chamber of commerce on board. They tend to be in favor of anything that brings foot traffic to town and in many areas have become major proponents of geocaching.

[+tozainamboku]

In public parks that have no permission policy, many geocachers take that as tacit or implied permission.

The issue is due dilligence on the part of the hider to find out what policy or non-policy the agency has. It is somewhat helped by the fact the reviewers are often aware of the policy - but not always.

 

The shirtless guy mentioned Anza-Borega State Park. That park had a policy and the reviewers were aware of the policy. They would make sure that cache hiders were aware of the policy and asked hiders to comply with the policy. The superintendent of the park decided that some damage had been caused by people hunting caches placed too close to an historically significant area and changed the policy to ban caches. This was not a case of asking or not asking for permission as much as a park changing the policy because of a perception that geocachers caused some damage. Even if cachers are not responsible for damage they are a covenient scapegoat for park managers. It may be that opening up communication with park managers obstensibly for getting permission to place the cache, is valuable in just avoiding problems with managers who have a misunderstanding of what geocaching is about.

[+Woodstramp]

arpro,

 

It's good that you went to that much trouble with the rec manager and council, but seeing how caching sometimes draws the attention of the local law enforcemnt folks you might just consider talking to the chief of police.

 

I've done that with three local municipalities and all three meetings have been positive. Shook hands, explained the game, showed a sample cache and left literature. None of these folks mentioned running it through council channels. Just a suggestion.

[sabrefan7]

Have any of you had to go through this just to ask to hide a cache? There are HUNDREDS of caches all over the place here, obviously I have to be one of the few who have asked permission, there are caches all over the town parks, and no one "in charge" seems to know about it.

I'd swear you need different people "in charge" in New York state townships. Seems like a bunch of little Napoleon wannabes.

For those of us in NY please look at the profiles of the 2 reviewers New York Admin http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=1c...d6-920e800d3c79

And sapience trek http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=37...c5-79919b7ae261

Almost any question can be answered just by looking at the profiles. PLUS the will answer any questions you have. ST is active on the 3 Western and Central NY forums. I have caches in State parks and have had no trouble placing them. I have asked permission for the others by email. Still waiting on permission from the DEC but have spoken and emailed with them they are good folks to work with just busy

[LeonardBanks]

I had to wait 1 month to attend a town meeting to ask permission to pace my Town Hall cache Town Hall

 

At the meeting I talked about caching and offered to host a CITO in another town park. They were happy to allow the cache being placed in their hammock.

[+arprodeo]

Well, Me and my caching partner have put together a power point presentation. We will have our GPSr, the cache with some swag and a log. I will invite them to a cache event or to go find a local cache at another time. Good suggestions, all. We attend the meeting on Monday night at 7 pm. I'll get back to you all about how it went. Thax for the help.

[+angelsunshine]

Was asked by park manager to place caches in park, he just wanted a "General Area" Map showing where caches are placed. On the other hand in order to put one out behind the church, we had to attend two meetings a month apart. Deacons last month said OK. Trustees to do an "environmental impact statement" tomorrow night, will let you know. Get permission so your players don't catch "heat"

Generally, make sure you introduce your law enforcement officials to the Game. Most people remember CSI did an episode.

[+Darren V]

I ask for permission via e-mail... in my town all public land is game

[+briansnat]

Well, Me and my caching partner have put together a power point presentation. We will have our GPSr, the cache with some swag and a log. I will invite them to a cache event or to go find a local cache at another time. Good suggestions, all. We attend the meeting on Monday night at 7 pm. I'll get back to you all about how it went. Thax for the help.

 

Here is a very good power point. A bit long. I've cut it down to about 12 pages and used it for presentations.

[+roziecakes]

I applaud the OP for going through the process of getting permission. As another poster said, you could become a geocaching hero in your area! You've probably just made everything so much easier for others who also cache and hide caches. You rock! I can't wait to hear how your presentation goes.

[+d+n.s]

I've been wondering about this since I started and a lot of these replies seem to purposely skirting the question!

 

I have been having some trouble getting in touch with the right people to get permission and its been hard for me to find a lot of info on how to go about it. I would have assumed that there were just as many articles about how to find out who owns a peice of land or whatever as there are articles about "cool containers"

 

Luckily, Austin's park reps seem fairly aware of geocaching and are open to it, but its been crazy trying to get on the phone with the right person!

Still, there is a weird hidden little "park" in my area and I don't have the first clue who owns the thing and I'm sure there is a method to finding this info that I'm unaware of.

 

As I go through all this, I too find it hard to imagine some of the lazy caches I've seen had any sort of permission and honestly I've only found one LPC (and I enjoyed finding it!) but its hard to imagine many people spoke to the owners of the shopping complexes they are all hidden in.

[+Chokecherry]

Just because one is lazy doesn't mean it gives permission for others to be lazy. For a cache I'm looking at placing at some point I started the research process. I have contacted city officials who know the territory, neighboring business owners who know where their land ends, and used plat maps to determine ownership of the land. And from there it's the same research process to find the right individual to speak to. But i'm not going to toss something out there and use the excuse that I kind of tried but just couldn't find the right person. I don't find that to be responsible at all, especially when potentially I could be directing people to trespass somewhere. Personally I would have un-ending guilt if someone got in trouble because I was lazy.

[+d+n.s]

Just because one is lazy doesn't mean it gives permission for others to be lazy. For a cache I'm looking at placing at some point I started the research process. I have contacted city officials who know the territory, neighboring business owners who know where their land ends, and used plat maps to determine ownership of the land. And from there it's the same research process to find the right individual to speak to. But i'm not going to toss something out there and use the excuse that I kind of tried but just couldn't find the right person. I don't find that to be responsible at all, especially when potentially I could be directing people to trespass somewhere. Personally I would have un-ending guilt if someone got in trouble because I was lazy.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting people NOT get permission. Only that there are various signs many people aren't and a general curiosity how many people really are. I know for a fact that I've found at least one cache by a VERY prolific local cacher that was placed without permission. Why? Because I was approached by the property owner who spoiled the cache location for me and was very curious what it was!

After I explained it, he seemed happy to finally know what it was. I don't think he minded the hide, but just wanted to know what it was after seeing people find it for months.

 

Dumb question: Whats a plat map and where can I get one? Sounds useful.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Dumb question: Whats a plat map and where can I get one? Sounds useful.

 

I love dumb questions... because I am dumb and can usually answer them...

 

Usually the County Clerk office or a corresponding type of official. Often, they are available from a local tourist information center, also.

 

EDIT: If that fails, ask a local real estate office where they got theirs!

Edited June 4, 2010 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+Team Cotati]

Just because one is lazy doesn't mean it gives permission for others to be lazy. For a cache I'm looking at placing at some point I started the research process. I have contacted city officials who know the territory, neighboring business owners who know where their land ends, and used plat maps to determine ownership of the land. And from there it's the same research process to find the right individual to speak to. But i'm not going to toss something out there and use the excuse that I kind of tried but just couldn't find the right person. I don't find that to be responsible at all, especially when potentially I could be directing people to trespass somewhere. Personally I would have un-ending guilt if someone got in trouble because I was lazy.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting people NOT get permission. Only that there are various signs many people aren't and a general curiosity how many people really are. I know for a fact that I've found at least one cache by a VERY prolific local cacher that was placed without permission. Why? Because I was approached by the property owner who spoiled the cache location for me and was very curious what it was!

After I explained it, he seemed happy to finally know what it was. I don't think he minded the hide, but just wanted to know what it was after seeing people find it for months.

 

Dumb question: Whats a plat map and where can I get one? Sounds useful.

 

"I don't think anyone here is suggesting people NOT get permission."

 

While that might be true, you'd be hard pressed to say that they aren't providing cover and a comfort zone for those seeking to do so.

[+d+n.s]

Just because one is lazy doesn't mean it gives permission for others to be lazy. For a cache I'm looking at placing at some point I started the research process. I have contacted city officials who know the territory, neighboring business owners who know where their land ends, and used plat maps to determine ownership of the land. And from there it's the same research process to find the right individual to speak to. But i'm not going to toss something out there and use the excuse that I kind of tried but just couldn't find the right person. I don't find that to be responsible at all, especially when potentially I could be directing people to trespass somewhere. Personally I would have un-ending guilt if someone got in trouble because I was lazy.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting people NOT get permission. Only that there are various signs many people aren't and a general curiosity how many people really are. I know for a fact that I've found at least one cache by a VERY prolific local cacher that was placed without permission. Why? Because I was approached by the property owner who spoiled the cache location for me and was very curious what it was!

After I explained it, he seemed happy to finally know what it was. I don't think he minded the hide, but just wanted to know what it was after seeing people find it for months.

 

Dumb question: Whats a plat map and where can I get one? Sounds useful.

 

"I don't think anyone here is suggesting people NOT get permission."

 

While that might be true, you'd be hard pressed to say that they aren't providing cover and a comfort zone for those seeking to do so.

Really?

I took it the other way... I feel like the thread was shining a spotlight on widespread lazy behaviour and hopefully making some folks uncomfortable

I'm not THAT hard pressed to say this in the least...

Guess it depends on your outlook on humanity, the universe and such

Edited June 4, 2010 by d+n.shults

[+Coldgears]

Remember not to use the line, "there are hundreds of them already, they are no issue." when talking to them. That could really backfire if they don't like the idea geocaching... You'd have a few hundred cache archived (assuming you weren't lying about the hundreds people hid without permission) and I'm sure you wouldn't be the most respected geocacher in your area after that...

[+d+n.s]

Remember not to use the line, "there are hundreds of them already, they are no issue." when talking to them. That could really backfire if they don't like the idea geocaching... You'd have a few hundred cache archived (assuming you weren't lying about the hundreds people hid without permission) and I'm sure you wouldn't be the most respected geocacher in your area after that...

Thats a good point.

[+dbrierley]

Whats a plat map and where can I get one? Sounds useful.

 

A plat map usually shows surveyed parcels of land. Many towns, cities and counties now offer these maps online; try looking for the assessor's office, clerk's office or zoning board on the appropriate government web site. Most sites can be found at:

 

http://www.statelocalgov.net

 

Plat maps usually don't list private land owners, but the assessor's office, etc. may have that information available online as well (or a link to that information on another site).