Is geocaching really more dangerous at night?

[+bittsen]

Tonight I was having a discussion with someone who contends that geocachers who cache at night are more at risk for people attacks than geocaching during the day.

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

 

What do you think?

Anyone have any statistics or stories about how someone was attacked because they were geocaching?

Any stories about how someone was attacked because they were baited to a geocache at night?

 

 

BTW, I should add that the person I was talking to was under the impression that geocaching has "taken off" recently and was unaware that the activity is almost 10 years old.

[+HouseOfDragons]

I don't think people would be attacked because they are geocaching, no but I do think it is generally more dangerous to be poking around places at nightime.

 

I wouldn't cache at night alone.

[+SSO JOAT]

Depends... city or wilderness?

 

Stay away from cities and you'll be safer.

 

Wilderness caching at night is little different than during the day. There's still nobody out there.

[+sTeamTraen]

Tonight I was having a discussion with someone who contends that geocachers who cache at night are more at risk for people attacks than geocaching during the day.

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

I think you were either talking to a troll, or to a very worried person who does not think things through very well and probably goes through their life in a state of irrational fear. The whole thing doesn't compute. Let's examine how this might work:

 

In order to bait a specific someone with a cache, you would have to be extremely knowledgable about the local caching community, and who goes out for caches at what times. You would need to ask for specific, timed publication of the cache, thus leaving a trail of notes to the reviewer (you can bet that if a cacher were attacked close to GZ, the police would want to talk to the owner). And you would need to know that the victim would not turn up with three large FF-hungry cache buddies and their dogs.

 

More generally, if you choose to focus on the risk of personal attack, you're probably missing the real dangers of going caching at night. I regularly cache in areas which are perfectly safe during the day, but which could lead to broken bones from tripping, or severe injuries from drops, and consequent probable death from exposure if attempted at night.

[+Touchstone]

I was OK with the premise until this part....

 

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

 

That seems unusually paranoid to me

 

I think it's safe to say that just about every activity is more dangerous during the evening hours, but probably a infinitesimal percentage of the dangers could be attributed to crime related incidents. I would think the garden variety of tripping, falling, or getting your eye poked out by a branch, would be the more significant hazard.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

More dangerous at nighttime rather than daytime? I think only due to human sight limitations, regardless if it was due to (human) predation or tripping, falling or other head-knocking incidents.

 

As long as this question has been brought up -- never mind.

(Whew)... almost wander off-topic.

[+wimseyguy]

Sounds to me like someone just wants to take out the other FTF hounds in town so he has an easier time of getting them.

[+SSO JOAT]

In order to bait a specific someone with a cache, you would have to be extremely knowledgable about the local caching community, and who goes out for caches at what times.

 

Ya'll watch too many of those stupid CSI shows. This isn't an overly paranoid concept at all. In fact, the OP brings up a very relevent scenario.

 

A geocache would be a perfect baiting opportunity for a violent predator that knows about the game. He gets to pick his spot for the attack (obscured from general view, dead end, ambush zone), publish it on the internet in a completely anonymous fashion (double-blind email to basic acct from internet cafe and you're untraceable; any idiot can do it), and then he can just sit back and see what shows up in his web. The cache hunter will be so intent on searching out the cache (and FTF as this technique would pretty much only work on the first day of publish) that they wouldn't even notice said predator coming in to commit a violent crime. Or, the guy walking up smiles and shows his GPS and the "mark" doesn't have a second thought about being on guard for a predatory attack. It would make targeting victims so simple for the bad guy that it isn't even funny.

 

So, if you're going to go caching at night I would suggest the following...

 

Take a buddy or two. Predators don't like groups.

 

Pay close attention to your surroundings. Situational awareness prevents most crimes. If it doesn't look right, don't go there.

 

Only visit caches that have been out for awhile and were published by a well established cacher.

 

Never go after new caches by new cachers for the FTF at night unless you are part of a well armed group.

 

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

<snip>

So, if you're going to go caching at night I would suggest the following...

 

Take a buddy or two. Predators don't like groups.

 

Pay close attention to your surroundings. Situational awareness prevents most crimes. If it doesn't look right, don't go there.

 

Only visit caches that have been out for awhile and were published by a well established cacher.

 

Never go after new caches by new cachers for the FTF at night unless you are part of a well armed group.

 

 

Good advice, 24/7. Night time though has little, if anything to do with it!

[+DragonsWest]

I was OK with the premise until this part....

 

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

 

That seems unusually paranoid to me

 

I think it's safe to say that just about every activity is more dangerous during the evening hours, but probably a infinitesimal percentage of the dangers could be attributed to crime related incidents. I would think the garden variety of tripping, falling, or getting your eye poked out by a branch, would be the more significant hazard.

 

Indeed. The other person appears to have a narrow view of Geocaching as the result of watching television shows where the script begins with a vague idea of geocaching, by obsessed stereotypical nerds, is then passed through a series of rewrites by a committee of editors bent on making it accessible to the lowest common denominator of viewers and then acted out by people who have never heard of Geocaching so ham it up badly.

 

Looking at Geocaching from the outside some of us may appear to be loonies who are up to no good, but take a dozen kids hiking in Almaden Quicksilver, armed with GPSrs preloaded with 10 caches and see how it really is. We may appear eccentric, but so does a shade-tree car mechanic until your car doesn't start. To each our own.

 

There are cachers around here who love caching at night. Perhaps drawing the attention of the occasional LEO or security guard in the city and the consternation of animals in the parks.

 

Baiting someone is simplified by tying a dollar to a piece of thread and hiding behind a bench with a sock full of marbles, why bother with all the Geocaching details?

Edited January 26, 2010 by DragonsWest

[+42at42]

With the way I've seen some of the FTF hounds attack a cache, the predator might get a rude awakening. There are so many, all coming from different directions, the predator may turn and run.

[GOF and Bacall]

For the most part this thread has made some good points. Perhaps a bit on the paranoid side but being aware is a good idea always.

 

Depends... city or wilderness?

 

Stay away from cities and you'll be safer.

 

Wilderness caching at night is little different than during the day. There's still nobody out there.

 

This post needs a comment. The farther out you go the less likely you are to run into trouble. But, you are also that much farther from help when you do.

[+bflentje]

Sounds to me like someone just wants to take out the other FTF hounds in town so he has an easier time of getting them.

 

Wait, I thought FTFs didn't matter?

[knowschad]

I've heard essentially the same worry expressed a number of times since I started caching. I've never heard it with the night-caching aspect, but I'm guessing that you had mentioned that you often cached at night). It always comes from non-cachers, and more commonly seems to involve a rapist or predator setting up the cache. As you know, and others have pointed out, that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. Still... your friend should consider applying as script writer for Law & Order.

[+SSO JOAT]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

 

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

[GOF and Bacall]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

 

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

[knowschad]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

Just because you are psychic doesn't mean that what you predict isn't gonna happen.

[GOF and Bacall]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

Just because you are psychic doesn't mean that what you predict isn't gonna happen.

 

My talent is erratic at best. I never saw that comment coming.

[+DragonsWest]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

Just because you are psychic doesn't mean that what you predict isn't gonna happen.

 

My talent is erratic at best. I never saw that comment coming.

 

Reminds me of the old dig at the Psychic Friends Network when they were going bankrupt: "Bet they didn't see that coming!"

 

And to further stoke the paranoia ...

 

 

I have this strange desire to buy a duck decoy and hollow it out .. what could it mean?

[+Renegade Knight]

Tonight I was having a discussion with someone who contends that geocachers who cache at night are more at risk for people attacks than geocaching during the day.

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

 

What do you think?

...

 

I think it's far too much work to leave an evidence trail just to find a victum. Far better to roll a drunk.

[+sTeamTraen]

Ya'll watch too many of those stupid CSI shows. This isn't an overly paranoid concept at all. In fact, the OP brings up a very relevent scenario.

Most violent crimes are random. Almost none are premeditated. Almost none of the premeditated crimes are against strangers. Except in stupid CSI shows.

 

You're asking us to believe in a perpetrator who takes great care in luring his victim into a specific spot, but he doesn't care who the victim is, as long as it's a geocacher? Is he avenging a series of DNFs?

[GOF and Bacall]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

Just because you are psychic doesn't mean that what you predict isn't gonna happen.

 

My talent is erratic at best. I never saw that comment coming.

 

Reminds me of the old dig at the Psychic Friends Network when they were going bankrupt: "Bet they didn't see that coming!"

 

And to further stoke the paranoia ...

 

 

I have this strange desire to buy a duck decoy and hollow it out .. what could it mean?

OH Great! More for Bittsen to worry about.

[+bittsen]

All of your comments are ringing true and exactly what I told the friend.

Yes, it was brought on by the conversation that I do most of my caching at night. Yes, my friend does walk around trying to find possible things that could go bad.

I remember when the friend was stressed out because I was too close to the edge of a cliff. I got a lecture on how irresponsible it was of me to be that close, what could have happened, how it could have impacted other people's lives, etc. And I was a good 2 feet from the edge of the cliff.

Yup, I think too many hours of CSI and LaO shows. They are good for entertainment but not necessarily informational.

 

I think part of the problem was that the friend had only gone geocaching with me a few times. The first few times were during the day but the one night cache was a FTF attempt in a small wilderness area right off of the freeway. I would admit that that place would have been perfect for an ambush but the friend didn't know about the random publish times. I did explain it though.

 

My whole argument was that geocaching makes it less dangerous in many circumstances. Whether rural or urban, the mere fact that I use a high powered flashlight, always have a caching buddy with me (except rare FTF attempts), and use common sense, makes it less dangerous. It's not like I wander aimlessly, unaware of my surroundings. Of course I did bring up the argument that I am actually more concerned with woodland predators than urban ones while geocaching.

 

The bottom line was, in my opinion, that the lack of light makes it more dangerous but not inherently dangerous. The act of geocaching doesn't add danger to being out at night but the act of being out at night adds danger over being out and about during the day.

[+Kit Fox]

Depends... city or wilderness?

 

Stay away from cities and you'll be safer.

 

Wilderness caching at night is little different than during the day. There's still nobody out there.

 

Depending on your location, you could encounter Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves, Coyote Packs, Stray Dogs, venemous snakes, etc. Don't forget the risks associated with caching in a "pickle park at night. "

[+wimseyguy]

... a bit on the paranoid side ...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Somehow I knew when I typed that someone would post that quote.

Just because you are psychic doesn't mean that what you predict isn't gonna happen.

 

My talent is erratic at best. I never saw that comment coming.

 

And don't forget my sig line about psychokinesis.

[+BCSasquatch]

I cache at night as I like to try and hit a few on my way home from work once or twice a week. The main risk is from injury. Even with the best flashlight there is still a greater chance of turning an ankle or slipping down a bank or whatever. I take my time and make sure my steps are placed well.

 

I also live near a Coyote super-highway with 4 resident packs and a lot of transient animals. It is bad mojo to be tromping around in there alone at night. There is even a cache near the outskirts of it called "Coyote Alley". The coyotes also of course frequent the close-by parks and residential areas looking for a quick cat-snack, so one must be very observant and aware of what may be creeping around.

 

The only other thing about night caching as far as my own adventures go is that there are certain parks around my home that are used by druggies and other undesirables, and one just doesn't go there at night.

 

So, I try to stay in the safer areas at night while still trying to avoid people and prying eyes.

 

As far as murderous treachery, stay out of the druggie parks at night and you should be good

 

I would not say it is automatically more inherently dangerous though.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Depends... city or wilderness?

 

Stay away from cities and you'll be safer.

 

Wilderness caching at night is little different than during the day. There's still nobody out there.

 

Depending on your location, you could encounter Bears, Mtn. Lions, Wolves, Coyote Packs, Stray Dogs, venemous snakes, etc. Don't forget the risks associated with caching in a "pickle park at night. "

 

I was going mention that bear roam at night.

Most of the parks are closed at night.

Saw evidence of a Pickle Park the other day. The high temp last week was 38º. Darn! That must have been cold!

The only evidence of baiting that I've heard of is second hand. College student with a cache on the stop sign in front of his house. Middle aged female geocacher told me she logged the cache on-line, and got an invitation from him to 'show her some other caches'. She mentioned that she had heard the same from other female geocachers. She's a very nice lady, but she's over twice his age.

[+t4e]

forget it, night caching is not dangerous

the whole caching game is dangerous, ever thought of the fact that just by simply turning on your GPS and locking in the signal "big brother" can trace your every move?

[+Kit Fox]

I cache at night as I like to try and hit a few on my way home from work once or twice a week. The main risk is from injury. Even with the best flashlight there is still a greater chance of turning an ankle or slipping down a bank or whatever. I take my time and make sure my steps are placed well.

 

I also live near a Coyote super-highway with 4 resident packs and a lot of transient animals. It is bad mojo to be tromping around in there alone at night. There is even a cache near the outskirts of it called "Coyote Alley". The coyotes also of course frequent the close-by parks and residential areas looking for a quick cat-snack, so one must be very observant and aware of what may be creeping around.

 

The only other thing about night caching as far as my own adventures go is that there are certain parks around my home that are used by druggies and other undesirables, and one just doesn't go there at night.

 

So, I try to stay in the safer areas at night while still trying to avoid people and prying eyes.

 

As far as murderous treachery, stay out of the druggie parks at night and you should be good

 

I would not say it is automatically more inherently dangerous though.

 

Singer killed by pack of Coyotes. http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/2...lled/index.html

[+bittsen]

I cache at night as I like to try and hit a few on my way home from work once or twice a week. The main risk is from injury. Even with the best flashlight there is still a greater chance of turning an ankle or slipping down a bank or whatever. I take my time and make sure my steps are placed well.

 

I also live near a Coyote super-highway with 4 resident packs and a lot of transient animals. It is bad mojo to be tromping around in there alone at night. There is even a cache near the outskirts of it called "Coyote Alley". The coyotes also of course frequent the close-by parks and residential areas looking for a quick cat-snack, so one must be very observant and aware of what may be creeping around.

 

The only other thing about night caching as far as my own adventures go is that there are certain parks around my home that are used by druggies and other undesirables, and one just doesn't go there at night.

 

So, I try to stay in the safer areas at night while still trying to avoid people and prying eyes.

 

As far as murderous treachery, stay out of the druggie parks at night and you should be good

 

I would not say it is automatically more inherently dangerous though.

 

Singer killed by pack of Coyotes. http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/2...lled/index.html

 

I think lornix meant that GEOCACHING wasn't inherently more dangerous than just being out.

 

Though a tragic story, the singer wasn't geocaching (as far as we know).

[+Kit Fox]

 

I think lornix meant that GEOCACHING wasn't inherently more dangerous than just being out.

 

Though a tragic story, the singer wasn't geocaching (as far as we know).

 

The point I was trying to make is that a pack of coyotes can be dangerous to geocachers (who cache outdoors) also.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Kit Fox

[+narcissa]

I wouldn't want to be in a physical confrontation with any of the folks go for middle-of-the-night FTFs here.

[GOF and Bacall]

 

I think lornix meant that GEOCACHING wasn't inherently more dangerous than just being out.

 

Though a tragic story, the singer wasn't geocaching (as far as we know).

 

The point I was trying to make is that a pack of coyotes can be dangerous to geocachers (who cache outdoors) also.

 

I think you two are like the guys standing on either side of the grand canyon. One is saying "That is a big ditch!" and the other is saying "That is a big crack!"

[+BCSasquatch]

Yes, I meant geocaching specifically. A lone coyote is usually not a problem, a pack on the other hand can be a very serious problem - even only 2 or 3. The story about the singer was a terrible and tragic event and had an impact on me as I live in a heavy coyote area with some caches placed right in the thick of things.

 

And ... the grand canyon is a very big crevasse

Edited January 27, 2010 by lornix

[knowschad]

I was going mention that bear roam at night.

The only evidence of baiting that I've heard of is second hand. College student with a cache on the stop sign in front of his house. Middle aged female geocacher told me she logged the cache on-line, and got an invitation from him to 'show her some other caches'. She mentioned that she had heard the same from other female geocachers. She's a very nice lady, but she's over twice his age.

I was going to mention that cougars roam at night, too.

[+bittsen]

I was going mention that bear roam at night.

The only evidence of baiting that I've heard of is second hand. College student with a cache on the stop sign in front of his house. Middle aged female geocacher told me she logged the cache on-line, and got an invitation from him to 'show her some other caches'. She mentioned that she had heard the same from other female geocachers. She's a very nice lady, but she's over twice his age.

I was going to mention that cougars roam at night, too.

 

Yeah, but they go home around closing time.

[knowschad]

ever thought of the fact that just by simply turning on your GPS and locking in the signal "big brother" can trace your every move?

Huh?!? OK... you're another one that's been watching too much TV.

[+Too Tall John]

I think lornix meant that GEOCACHING wasn't inherently more dangerous than just being out.

 

Though a tragic story, the singer wasn't geocaching (as far as we know).

The point I was trying to make is that a pack of coyotes can be dangerous to geocachers (who cache outdoors) also.

I think you two are like the guys standing on either side of the grand canyon. One is saying "That is a big ditch!" and the other is saying "That is a big crack!"

... and since it is neither, they are both wrong?

[+simpjkee]

nonsense. I work the 3pm - 11pm shift at work and spend my free time at night. Of the 2469 finds I have, I would estimate that 1500 were found between 11pm and 3am. I have yet to endure any bad experience.

 

IMO, people are just scared because the media is constantly berating them with horror stories of all the murders and rapes and robberies that happen. Dont let the media scare you into thinking the streets are unsafe at night.

 

But anyway, I suppose that you could place a geocache just to accost a finder, but that seems really unlikely since you don't know when it will be published and the perpetrator could potential end up sitting there waiting for an oppurtunity for a long time.

[4wheelin_fool]

It tends to be very dark at night.

[+t4e]

ever thought of the fact that just by simply turning on your GPS and locking in the signal "big brother" can trace your every move?

Huh?!? OK... you're another one that's been watching too much TV.

 

lol...i know, sarcasm is hard to detect on internet, would i be out caching if i believed that?

 

but seriously, i heard people make that statement, they don't even use a cellphone for fear of being tracked

[+tozainamboku]

 

I think lornix meant that GEOCACHING wasn't inherently more dangerous than just being out.

 

Though a tragic story, the singer wasn't geocaching (as far as we know).

 

The point I was trying to make is that a pack of coyotes can be dangerous to geocachers (who cache outdoors) also.

It's off-topic anyhow as the article says she was attacked in the afternoon.

[+SSO JOAT]

Ya'll should try geocaching in Alaska. It's light until midnight and then "dusk" until the 4am sunrise.

 

There are no creepy crawly critters, like snakes, that will "get" you.

 

Our coyotes are at the bottom of the food chain and run away like lap dogs if you say, "boo". There is no coyote that has a chance against my gun. Now the wolves you need to be a bit more wary of. They have the ability to actually hunt you down, though the chances of that are about the same of being struck my lightning... twice.

 

Bears are easy to reason with. They like to come out at midnight and forage for grub through the morning hours. They aren't really interested in people and tend to run away as soon as you make your presence known (hence, we usually wear bear bells and make noise to advertise our presence). In my 32 years of wandering around in Alaskan woods, even at night, I've never had a close encounter with a bear.

 

Of all the wild animals in the forest, the only ones I really worry about are the evil humans. Contrary to how it works in France, in this country the incidence of random violence is plenty high enough to be concerned about.

[+Scubasonic]

Tonight I was having a discussion with someone who contends that geocachers who cache at night are more at risk for people attacks than geocaching during the day.

His belief is that someone might place a geocache for the sole purpose of baiting someone to an area to accost them.

 

What do you think?

Anyone have any statistics or stories about how someone was attacked because they were geocaching?

Any stories about how someone was attacked because they were baited to a geocache at night?

 

 

BTW, I should add that the person I was talking to was under the impression that geocaching has "taken off" recently and was unaware that the activity is almost 10 years old.

 

I think it all depends on where the cache is, as to if is dangerous or not at night. In our area last summer there was a attack on a Geocacher just off Marine Drive after dusk. Luckly he did the right thing and came away scared but unhurt. I think you just have to use common sense, and be prepared.

 

Scubasonic

[+Scubasonic]

Sounds to me like someone just wants to take out the other FTF hounds in town so he has an easier time of getting them.

 

That's Bittsen I'll be watching my back.

 

Scubasonic

[+bittsen]

I think it all depends on where the cache is, as to if is dangerous or not at night. In our area last summer there was a attack on a Geocacher just off Marine Drive after dusk. Luckly he did the right thing and came away scared but unhurt. I think you just have to use common sense, and be prepared.

 

Scubasonic

 

Yeah, I thought about that guy (and I had found that cache at night as well) but he wasn't accosted because he was geocaching. He just happened to be geocaching when he was accosted. If he had been there for any other reason, it still would have happened (based on the comments as I remember them).

[+webscouter.]

forget it, night caching is not dangerous

the whole caching game is dangerous, ever thought of the fact that just by simply turning on your GPS and locking in the signal "big brother" can trace your every move?

Nope, doesn't happen. A standard GPS is not trace able.

[+JBigBoy]

Ya'll watch too many of those stupid CSI shows. This isn't an overly paranoid concept at all. In fact, the OP brings up a very relevent scenario.

Most violent crimes are random. Almost none are premeditated. Almost none of the premeditated crimes are against strangers. Except in stupid CSI shows.

 

You're asking us to believe in a perpetrator who takes great care in luring his victim into a specific spot, but he doesn't care who the victim is, as long as it's a geocacher? Is he avenging a series of DNFs?

 

Most violent crimes are not random, on the contrary, they are premeditated, and they are generally perpetrated by someone the victim knows.

 

"Random" violence is generally a product of mental illness, drug/alcohol abuse, etc.

 

With that said, I agree that someone who is searching out a random victim to hurt will not go through all of the trouble of posting something in an obscure hobby website, and then hide for a period of hours to days to wait for the unsuspecting cacher. The person would be too unstable for that kind of discipline.

 

Sounds a bit ridiculous. I guess I am saying chill out and enjoy your life. You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning while flying in a space ship on a leap year.

Edited January 27, 2010 by JBigBoy

[+Setan Meyacha]

I, personally, avoid caching at night within city limits. I do cache at night in the desert though, and the only thing to really be concerned about there are the creepy crawlies. I've hunted coyotes for years, so don't concern myself with them; especially when caching at night in the desert you most likely are, or should be, carrying a flashlight and/or wearing a headlamp to see where you're going. Nighttime caching in the desert in the summer is the best way to cache...less heat!

[+Scubasonic]

I think it all depends on where the cache is, as to if is dangerous or not at night. In our area last summer there was a attack on a Geocacher just off Marine Drive after dusk. Luckly he did the right thing and came away scared but unhurt. I think you just have to use common sense, and be prepared.

 

Scubasonic

 

Yeah, I thought about that guy (and I had found that cache at night as well) but he wasn't accosted because he was geocaching. He just happened to be geocaching when he was accosted. If he had been there for any other reason, it still would have happened (based on the comments as I remember them).

 

Well that's true.......BTW was that U at Shelriks SLOUGH cache FTF that pulled in the same time I did?

 

Scubasonic