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Request For Clear Identification of Geocache Containers


Brad_W
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Groundspeak recently received this message from a state police officer who is also a geocacher. Since the message really applies everywhere I have copied it below after removing locally identifiable content.

Hi Geo people,

 

I am a supervisor with the State Police dispatch center here.

 

The reason for my e-mail is to let you know of a couple issues with geocaches. (I myself am a geocache chaser, and thoroughly enjoy the sport.)

 

We have had several situations involving geocaches, in which were reported to our dispatch center as suspicious objects, or possible explosive devices.

 

When we get these calls, we send out our Bomb Techs who go out to figure out what the item is.

 

I thought maybe you could pass along to everyone in geocache land, customers, etc... that they really need to identify the item as a geocache, and not just a duct/camo taped item that may look like a pipe bomb.

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

The item was wrapped up in camo tape, and looked like a pipe that was capped.

 

I later spoke with the Bomb Tech who responded, and he told me it was a geocache. He said they are getting more and more of these type of calls, as the general public does not know what the item is. In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car.

 

I know of three different incidents this last year (2009) that involved geocaches, where we had to send out our Bomb Techs.

 

I don't know if you have discussed this anywhere in the forums, if you have, I apologize for being redundant.

 

I thought maybe you could send out an informational e-mail to everyone to let them know that their caches could be found by the unknowing citizen, who might call the police about a suspicious object.

 

If everyone hiding caches would properly mark their caches, so anyone finding them could see that they are a geocache, this might help alleviate some problems with the police having to respond, and possibly destroying the geocache.

 

Thank you for your time

Please do what you can to ensure that geocache containers are not easily mistaken for a dangerous object.

 

Thanks!

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I had an "incident" happen to me.

We were out looking for a cache in the middle of town on an "island" in the middle of traffic going all around us.

First mistake: We are not too stealthy. Took a ladder and climbed up to retrieve and replace magnetic cache from on top of a sign. We did move some candidate signs around and back again hoping to look like we were working with the election campaigns going on, but don't think we were convincing anyone. One person walked right by us and we were very open and not trying to act secretive, but think those who saw us were suspicious of what we were doing.

Second mistake: We were caching on 9/11 and there was a heightened alert for all of the state due to the arrest of terrorists in New York City trying to bomb the subway there.

Third mistake: I wore a scarf. It undobtedly made me look like an islamic female terrorist because they keep their heads covered as part of their religion. (profiling)

We got the cache, signed it, talked for a few minutes and drove away. As I was driving out of town not one, not two, but three state trooper's cars come careening around the corner and tore past me with their lights blinking.

Could they have been responding to a report of possible female terrorists messing about in the middle of town? I'll never know, but I think so just from the way it went down. If they looked for the "bomb" we were planting they never found it. The nano was found and logged a few days later at the same location.

Didn't read anything about the police responding to a call about suspicious activity in that area although did read that they were responding to all possible reports.

Guess I have to work on that stealthiness thing.

 

I tried once to talk directly to the police in a small town where I had a cache to try to alert them to our activity and where the caches were located in the hopes that if they knew where the caches were it might prevent an incident, but gave up when they said they couldn't talk directly to me and that I had to go through committees. I still think it is a good idea for the police to know where the caches are located.

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Not to be contrary but......

 

Are the terrorists or mischief makers going to follow rules and make their stuff look like a bomb? Not an expert here by any means , however whenever I read a story that has any details in it the bomb looked like a boom box, a brief case, a lunch bag, etc. As already mentioned, how long will it be before a box marked "GEOCACHE" turns out to be a bomb.

 

A call goes in, marking it as a geocache won't matter. Not even taking into account these bomb squad guys like to do their thing and destroy whatever is in front of them, for the above mentioned reasons they have to handle it as the real thing.

 

Sorry, but I see this as an resolution looking for a problem. No, I don't take lightly anyone being harmed, however I refuse to live in fear because of isolated instances.

 

Flame away.

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It continues to amaze me that people make caches and don't label them, even camoed containers can have the green Geocache label and blend in.
They blend in?!? :lol: Are we on the same planet? Those labels scream "I'M OVER HERE!!" They also don't stick for very long, but that is a minor problem, I think.
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The only glaring inaccuracy written by the "geocache chaser" was that an agency would dispatch their EOD unit to every suspicious object reported by Joe Public. That's impractical to the point of being ridiculous. In the real world of law enforcement, suspicious objects get a street level law enforcement officer response. Based upon his/her findings, things may escalate, typically with a call to that officer's immediate supervisor. From there, EOD may be called out.

 

Once EOD shows up, the cache has a very low chance of survival.

 

I've been in law enforcement since 1982, and I quite literally get dispatched to hundreds of suspicious objects a year. To date, I've only sent one up the chain of command.

 

One suggestion I have, if Groundspeak should ever decide it's in their best interest to take a proactive approach, as opposed to a CYA approach, is a slight edit of the guidelines, requiring explicit permission for caches placed on private property, such as big box store parking lots. While there's no way to come up with any real numbers, the incidents of caches going "Boom" that I've read have almost exclusively been in places such as these. While this wouldn't be an instant fix, or alleviate every blown up cache incident, over time, through attrition, I believe it would greatly reduce the number of incidents, if only by reducing the quantity of caches placed in such environments. Groundspeak already hints that explicit permission is a good idea for caches on private property in their guide to hiding a cache. All they'd need to do is extend that language to the actual guidelines themselves.

 

Do I think they'll actually do this? No.

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Labeling the container is very good advice that all of us should follow.

 

However - keep in mind that the problem is not geocaches or geocachers. Both are part of light fun recreational activity that is harmless. Always has been that way. The problem is the reaction to our little pastime. Folks call in suspicious items and suspicious looking people. Once that phone call occurs, certain events are set in motion that are awful hard to stop - I doubt anybody wants to get close enough to read a label on the item unless it is remotely viewed by the bomb squad robot. We the public have demanded that very reaction. It does not surprise me in any way when it happens. It is the price we pay for a more secure society.

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The quoted posting below is not an exaggeration. All of the examples can be found in thread in this very forum. And, as our resident bomb expert, Wadcutter, has posted, "what DOES a bomb look like?" It may very well look like a geocache. Or a lunch box. Or a DMV traffic counter.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4186749

Transparent contains have also been "rendered safe". So have labeled caches, film canisters, bison tubes, plastic coke bottles, caches places with permission, caches placed with permission- and the property owner on-site telling the bomb squad that it's not a bomb, caches in remote locations, letterboxes, terracaches, lunchboxes, and even (as mentioned recently) DMV traffic counters.

 

While I can all agree that there is a problem, I'm not so sure I agree that the proposed solution will be much help, if any. If a box marked, "Lunch" is blown up, then why not a box marked, "Geocache"?

 

The poster said,

"I know of three different incidents this last year (2009) that involved geocaches, where we had to send out our Bomb Techs."

Allow me, please, to offer a counter argument that geocaches are a very small part of the bomb squad's efforts (bolded text was by me)

link:

 

MIPT'S Terrorism Expert Briefs Five States on Bomb Threat

 

(Fort Worth, Tex.) Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism's (MIPT) Deputy Director, David Cid, briefed leaders from a five state area on the threat of a bombing campaign. Cid noted there were 50 bomb related incidents in the five state region (Oklahoma, New Mexico, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana) in 2008. He stated the average was four per month, with the most common threat coming in through the use of the telephone.

"Bombings transcend terrorism," Cid told the group. "I believe we will see suicide bombers and placed bombs as a tactic of the enemy as it's easy to pull off and can have the greatest impact on America's way of life."

 

Cid was invited to brief the group at the two-day Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) meeting organized in Fort Worth, Texas on February 18-19, 2009.

 

Cid has 20 years experience with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) counterterrorism division. MIPT was born out of the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 and currently partners with the Department of Homeland Security's Office for Bombing Prevention.

 

MIPT is a counterterrorism center focused on training, analysis and information sharing with its origins in the largest domestic attack in the history of the United States.

 

Edited by knowschad
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I want to add this to what I posted above:

 

To the anonymous original poster; There is no doubt that a problem exists, and I did not intend to minimize that problem, nor your concern by posting what I did. The point that I was trying to make is that the solution needs to take place on both sides of the equation. That many police departments across the country still have never ever heard of geocaching, ten years after its inception, is inexcusable. That, for the most part, they won't even attempt to determine (after they cordon off the area) if the object just MIGHT be a harmless geocache, is very problematic for me as well.

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It continues to amaze me that people make caches and don't label them, even camoed containers can have the green Geocache label and blend in.
They blend in?!? :lol: Are we on the same planet? Those labels scream "I'M OVER HERE!!" They also don't stick for very long, but that is a minor problem, I think.

 

I've yet to see a container where you couldn't turn it so the label isn't obvious.

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It continues to amaze me that people make caches and don't label them, even camoed containers can have the green Geocache label and blend in.
They blend in?!? :lol: Are we on the same planet? Those labels scream "I'M OVER HERE!!" They also don't stick for very long, but that is a minor problem, I think.

I've yet to see a container where you couldn't turn it so the label isn't obvious.

And if it isn't obvious, it won't be seen by a bomb squad, right?
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It continues to amaze me that people make caches and don't label them, even camoed containers can have the green Geocache label and blend in.
They blend in?!? :lol: Are we on the same planet? Those labels scream "I'M OVER HERE!!" They also don't stick for very long, but that is a minor problem, I think.

I've yet to see a container where you couldn't turn it so the label isn't obvious.

And if it isn't obvious, it won't be seen by a bomb squad, right?

Wrong, they'll see it when they check it out before blowing it up. I've yet to hear of a bomb squad standing back and lobbing sticks of dynamite at a package, they generally try to move it to a safe area first and look it over to try and identify it. Regardless though of whether they see it or not it does not lessen your responsibility to clearly label it as the guidelines and this thread tell you to do.

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The guidelines already say this

For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. Be respectful when considering cache and waypoint placements in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries). For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property with permission, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport.
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The only glaring inaccuracy written by the "geocache chaser" was that an agency would dispatch their EOD unit to every suspicious object reported by Joe Public. That's impractical to the point of being ridiculous. In the real world of law enforcement, suspicious objects get a street level law enforcement officer response. Based upon his/her findings, things may escalate, typically with a call to that officer's immediate supervisor. From there, EOD may be called out.

 

Not in Dakota County they don't.

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Two points:

 

When you mark a container as a geocache, it does from an unidentified object to one that might be a geocache. Simple.

 

Two, ignore requests from state officials and next thing you know you're fighting an up hill battle in state legislature with powerful lobbies against you. Been there, done that.

 

Geocaching in general, and Groundspeak in particular, has been our worse enemy in terms of public policy. Sure, there is lip service to being the responsible ones, but growth has always been priority one. Small agency concerns seem to be ignored until they ban geocaching.

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Not in Dakota County they don't.

They don't what? Send a deputy as an initial responder to a suspicious object complaint? Are you suggesting their policy is to send out EOD for every single suspicious object that gets reported? Several times a day? Have you asked them, or are you basing this on some observations you've made? If you give a shout to Sheriff Gudmundson's Law Enforcement Center, 651-438-4700, they may tell you differently.

 

or not... :lol:

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Well to some non-geocachers, all of this labeling and all that stuff just don't matter. There was a deliberate bomb scare in Boise in late August of 2007. A cacher had a TB hotel on his property, chained to his fence and one of the neighbors, obviously a geocache hater, made up a sock puppet account and went onto the cache page and left a nasty log about how the cache was in violation of this and that and all that crap. Then, this person proceeded to call the bomb squad, instead of being an adult and talking to the cache owner about it. The bomb squad came out and I'm sure you can imagine the rest. This idiot knew that it was a geocache before they called the bomb squad, hence the sock puppet account. In my humble opinion, they should have been arrested for intentionally getting everything stirred up. Needless to say the cache was archived and the cacher quit caching. Some people just don't care, they like to start drama and cause problems.

Edited by Team Idasam
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i agree with the police should know. i went today to our small town mayor and explained to him about geocaching and wanted to get permission to hide some. he liked the idea of caching and wondered if i had some at our local mall. i told him they weren't mine but there were some out there. (which makes me wonder if any of the caches in my area had permission) he just asked me to write down where i hide all caches so his office knows in case there is an issue. also he wanted me to make a copy so the local police had a listing so if they got calls about something funny they would know what was goin on. so i plan on that.

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he just asked me to write down where i hide all caches so his office knows in case there is an issue. also he wanted me to make a copy so the local police had a listing so if they got calls about something funny they would know what was goin on. so i plan on that.
Did you tell him that he can get a free premium account here so he can not only know where your caches are, but any others? Did he at least know what geocaching was, ten years after it started?
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Let's change the concept a little bit: I place a bomb in the crook of a tree or under a rock or whatever, but I label it with a sticker that says "I swear this isn't a bomb. Nothing to see here. Go away."

 

Who is NOT calling the bomb squad?

 

It's not like I can't label anything as whatever I want. If an outsider sees a suspicious package in the middle of the woods or under a lamp post skirt, and feels the police should be involved, I don't think the label on the side of that package should influence that decision one bit.

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From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

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One suggestion I have, if Groundspeak should ever decide it's in their best interest to take a proactive approach, as opposed to a CYA approach, is a slight edit of the guidelines, requiring explicit permission for caches placed on private property, such as big box store parking lots.

 

 

I think this would prevent the vast majority of incidents. I wonder what percentage of parking lot caches actually have permission to be where they are -- I suspect the number is closer to 0% than it is 100%.

 

I've been the situation twice, where I've gone through the hoops of trying to get permission by making phone calls over the course of a few weeks, only to have someone place caches in the same place w/out permission in the meantime. It's incredibly frustrating.

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Most of the ammo cans that I have found hidden still had the ammo markings on the side. I can understand why a non-geocacher might think it is ammo or something dangerous.

 

The one and only LPC that I looked for and found was a large prescription pill bottle (orange) stashed at a light pole in a Walmart parking lot. I can understand why a non-geocacher might think it is drug-related or dangerous.

 

I agree with the LEO in the original post. There are a few simple things that we can do to help alleviate the misunderstandings.

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I'd be willing to bet that every time Joe Paranoid calls in a lampskirt hide he's not going to go near enough to read any kind of labeling. If we're labeling them for Joe Paranoid, we're wasting ink. Once the bomb-squad is on the scene they are there to do one thing- make it safe. If we're labeling it for them, we're wasting ink.

 

If caches that are labeled will be dealt with in the same manner as caches that aren't labeled... why are we labeling them?

 

I've marked mine in some way or another, with a label or the words "geocaching.com" but only because I'm trying to tip the scales ever-so-slightly in favor of it not getting escalated to the bomb squad. Do I have absolute assurance that this label will result in deflecting a water cannon? Nope. Do I hope that it does? Sure.

 

Should you label your caches. Yes. Why? Because it might help.

 

---

 

There are a few things that bother me about the letter sent to Groundspeak.

 

We have had several situations involving geocaches, in which were reported to our dispatch center as suspicious objects, or possible explosive devices.

 

When we get these calls, we send out our Bomb Techs who go out to figure out what the item is.

 

Maybe this department does things differently, but if there is some way to "figure out what the item is" without blowing a hole through it maybe they should share it with the rest of the country? Or do bomb squads blow up suspicious items to make people feel safe?

 

I thought maybe you could pass along to everyone in geocache land, customers, etc... that they really need to identify the item as a geocache, and not just a duct/camo taped item that may look like a pipe bomb.

 

As many have asked, is the geocache label a free-pass? Hello, can of worms. Wouldn't most people rather that an item that looks like a pipe bomb be treated like a pipe bomb? Or, if you take Wadcutter's previous comments to heart, why would you single out something that looks like a pipe bomb? And is that "looks like a pipe bomb" to the dispatch supervisor or "looks like a pipe bomb" to the bomb tech?

 

I know of three different incidents this last year (2009) that involved geocaches, where we had to send out our Bomb Techs.

 

And how many that weren't geocaches?

 

If everyone hiding caches would properly mark their caches, so anyone finding them could see that they are a geocache, this might help alleviate some problems with the police having to respond, and possibly destroying the geocache.

 

Or, as history has shown, not.

 

I just have to wonder if the comments made by the dispatch supervisor were in any way coordinated with the bomb techs on staff. I also have to wonder if there is any attempt being made by the department to use the listings on this website as a resource. NOT the final word, but a resource. I mean, hey, the dispatch supervisor is a cacher...

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One suggestion I have, if Groundspeak should ever decide it's in their best interest to take a proactive approach, as opposed to a CYA approach, is a slight edit of the guidelines, requiring explicit permission for caches placed on private property, such as big box store parking lots. While there's no way to come up with any real numbers, the incidents of caches going "Boom" that I've read have almost exclusively been in places such as these. While this wouldn't be an instant fix, or alleviate every blown up cache incident, over time, through attrition, I believe it would greatly reduce the number of incidents, if only by reducing the quantity of caches placed in such environments. Groundspeak already hints that explicit permission is a good idea for caches on private property in their guide to hiding a cache. All they'd need to do is extend that language to the actual guidelines themselves.

 

I'll go you one further. Ban caches placed in parking lots*.

 

As we have seen at least two cases, explicit permission doesn't appear to be enough due to shifting management roster, failure to pass the word to people further down the food chain, or the simple fact that LEOs may not consult with big store management before sending in the bomb-bot or that when confronted, most big-box management would simply clam up and deny the any knowledge in the face of a potential PR nightmare.

 

Throw in the issue that often the clear owner of the property is often not in any way related to the managers inside the store and may not even be on-site or even in the same state as the parking lot itself. IF it's even an individual as opposed to a group of individuals.

 

I'm really starting to lean towards the "little to no redeeming value and not worth the potential trouble" side of spectrum in regard to parking lot/lampskirt hides.

 

Yes, I did place one once. Yes I did adopt a couple. Opinions change.

 

 

*If you're standing on a paved surface, there are cars parked in it and stores nearby, it's a parking lot.

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Groundspeak recently received this message from a state police officer who is also a geocacher. Since the message really applies everywhere I have copied it below after removing locally identifiable content.

Hi Geo people,

 

I am a supervisor with the State Police dispatch center here.

 

The reason for my e-mail is to let you know of a couple issues with geocaches. (I myself am a geocache chaser, and thoroughly enjoy the sport.)

 

We have had several situations involving geocaches, in which were reported to our dispatch center as suspicious objects, or possible explosive devices.

 

When we get these calls, we send out our Bomb Techs who go out to figure out what the item is.

 

I thought maybe you could pass along to everyone in geocache land, customers, etc... that they really need to identify the item as a geocache, and not just a duct/camo taped item that may look like a pipe bomb.

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

The item was wrapped up in camo tape, and looked like a pipe that was capped.

 

I later spoke with the Bomb Tech who responded, and he told me it was a geocache. He said they are getting more and more of these type of calls, as the general public does not know what the item is. In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car.

 

I know of three different incidents this last year (2009) that involved geocaches, where we had to send out our Bomb Techs.

 

I don't know if you have discussed this anywhere in the forums, if you have, I apologize for being redundant.

 

I thought maybe you could send out an informational e-mail to everyone to let them know that their caches could be found by the unknowing citizen, who might call the police about a suspicious object.

 

If everyone hiding caches would properly mark their caches, so anyone finding them could see that they are a geocache, this might help alleviate some problems with the police having to respond, and possibly destroying the geocache.

 

Thank you for your time

Please do what you can to ensure that geocache containers are not easily mistaken for a dangerous object.

 

Thanks!

 

I don't believe this guy is who he says he is. While there have been hiders who have made caches out of pvc pipe, I cannot think of reason why a cache would need to be placed under a vehicle.

 

This subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

 

Yes, there are some questionable caches cause undo concern.

 

However, I am of the opinion that most of these bomb scares are the result of joe citizen being way to antsy and eager to call the police instead of using the logic portion of their brain.

 

Who in their right mind would think that a terrorist would care to blow up a tree with a microwave out in the woods? What terrorist would waste their time strapping a bomb to a guardrail on an abandoned stretch of road?

 

I'm not a terrorist, but it's always been my experience that to be effective, an explosion should take out as many people as possible. At the very least, I would think they would want it to be in a very public place.

 

If we are to take this state trooper supervisor seriously, I would like some confirmation that he actually works in that capacity AND I would like to see a verification of this cache that was placed under someone's car. I just don't believe that cacher after cacher would place a pipe shaped cache back under people's cars until the bomb squad finally gets called in.

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Probably the best thing about labeling your cache is that if something happens you can always say "But I labeled it. Can't you people read?"

 

There's nothing wrong with labeling your cache as such. I actually do it with my caches. However, there's no need to use the green, shiny stickers. You can actually cammo the label so that up close it is clearly marked, but from far away does not say "come get me". I generally label my caches with GC # as well so it's easier to look up if found by a muggle.

 

However, I still don't like the idea of someone purporting to be someone and making up an exaggerated story in order to trigger the TPTB to add to the guidelines.

 

I could be wrong. And if this guy is who he says he is AND the pipe cache actually is a true incident, then I will gladly eat humble pie.

 

But if not, then I would prefer he just come to the forums and make his argument for labeling caches appropriately like every other cacher.

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I want to add this to what I posted above:

 

To the anonymous original poster; There is no doubt that a problem exists, and I did not intend to minimize that problem, nor your concern by posting what I did. The point that I was trying to make is that the solution needs to take place on both sides of the equation. That many police departments across the country still have never ever heard of geocaching, ten years after its inception, is inexcusable. That, for the most part, they won't even attempt to determine (after they cordon off the area) if the object just MIGHT be a harmless geocache, is very problematic for me as well.

 

Exactly.

 

In the incidents that have caused law enforcement to be called out, it seems a large portion of these were in areas where it made no sense for a bomb to be planted.

 

It's one thing for joe citizen who only sees the fear on tv to call 911 for ever suspicious item they see.

 

It's another thing for trained law enforcement not to exercise some common sense.

 

If it's a suspiciously camoed cache found in a high traffic area, then shame on the hider. We should all be a bit more aware of the public's reaction to these things by now.

 

But if it's a cache that is placed far away from the public in a manner which is very obvious that it would not cause "terror", then think about it for a second before you call the bomb squad.

 

And yes, if cachers would label their caches with at least the website's name, it would help a lot. But even without labels, there are just some locations where it makes no sense to assume bomb first.

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I know for a fact that our local sheriff does and has asked other local agencies to check Geocaching.com when a report comes in of a suspicous "package" , but our local Sheriff has a pretty savy and professional department--we haven't had any incidents that I know of. We also have hiders who use common sense.

 

The only incident that I know of was one involving cliff caches in a county park.

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The guidelines already say this

For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. Be respectful when considering cache and waypoint placements in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries). For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property with permission, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport.

 

Which kind of makes the whole point of this thread moot.

 

But when I suspect that someone is misrepresenting themselves to begin with, then I also suspect their true intentions. The next step may be to then contact TPTB again and request clear containers.

 

I guess my biggest problem with this whole thread is that I just don't believe that someone would place a pipe shaped cache under a car and I really don't believe we would not have heard about it before now if it were true.

 

He says he is a cacher and is apparently aware of the forums. It doesn't require an in-depth search to find threads about this subject. It comes up rather often. I just find the whole message fishy.

 

If you want to state your opinion then bring it here and make your argument. Don't try to get TPTB make your argument for you.

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From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

 

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

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Most of the ammo cans that I have found hidden still had the ammo markings on the side. I can understand why a non-geocacher might think it is ammo or something dangerous.

 

You can't fix stupid or lazy.

 

It's really sad that TPTB felt the need to actually add removal of military writing to the guidelines. That's something that should be obvious to anyone. It only takes a few minutes to hit it with some paint.

 

I get a kick out of reading signs in stores, hospitals, etc. Some are really obvious things. What gets me is that there is a reason these signs are made. At some point, someone did something that made them go through the trouble of making that sign.

 

Some people just do not think about what they are doing and how it impacts those around them.

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I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

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From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

 

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

 

Several people have commented on this. Am I the only one who read the original post all the way through?

 

In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car.

 

I can picture a lamp-post cache being carelessly replaced, rolling out and ending up under a car.

 

On the other hand, I've never heard anyone refer to himself as a "cache chaser."

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I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

 

I stand corrected. I did miss that.

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I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

 

Just posting that I did read the part about the cache rolling out of place and that although I did use the term "Joe Paranoid" I did not address in any way the cache found under the car- because I read that it rolled.

 

Just mentioning that for post #342 where somebody quotes you and then tries to attribute both things to me.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

 

Just posting that I did read the part about the cache rolling out of place and that although I did use the term "Joe Paranoid" I did not address in any way the cache found under the car- because I read that it rolled.

 

Just mentioning that for post #342 where somebody quotes you and then tries to attribute both things to me.

 

eating-humble-pie.jpg

 

I blame Sioneva for letting me wonder out of the bleachers. :P

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From the letter in the first post:

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

I dunno... I suppose it could have fallen out from under a lamp skirt, been muggled, then dropped there by the muggle, or an as yet un-hidden container that fell out of a geocacher's car.
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From the letter in the first post:

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

I dunno... I suppose it could have fallen out from under a lamp skirt, been muggled, then dropped there by the muggle, or an as yet un-hidden container that fell out of a geocacher's car.

Or it just rolled out of its hiding spot - just like the OP says.............

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From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

 

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

 

You all stop reading to soon, the next line states that the cache had rolled under the car from where it had been stashed. No doubt the previous finder did not replace it right and being round it rolled out.

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From the letter in the first post:

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

I dunno... I suppose it could have fallen out from under a lamp skirt, been muggled, then dropped there by the muggle, or an as yet un-hidden container that fell out of a geocacher's car.

Or it just rolled out of its hiding spot - just like the OP says.............

 

Logic is just White Noise to the impatient or disagreeable.

Edited by maggi101
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Sorry, I'm still not a believer. The "letter" says the state employee thought it was planted there. So they either saw a cacher accidently drop it before it rolled under, or they just happened to walk up to their vehichle and noticed a camo container that a cacher dropped. Either way, the cacher had to have decided to leave it there rather than retrieve it. If it was so hard to retrieve, how wold it be noticed by a casual observer?

 

Yes there are scenarios where such a thing can happen, they all just seem very unlikely to me.

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Sorry, I'm still not a believer. The "letter" says the state employee thought it was planted there. So they either saw a cacher accidently drop it before it rolled under, or they just happened to walk up to their vehichle and noticed a camo container that a cacher dropped. Either way, the cacher had to have decided to leave it there rather than retrieve it. If it was so hard to retrieve, how wold it be noticed by a casual observer?

 

Yes there are scenarios where such a thing can happen, they all just seem very unlikely to me.

 

We still remember Theodore Kaczynski out here in California.

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