Request For Clear Identification of Geocache Containers

[+thedeadpirate]

From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

 

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

 

You all stop reading to soon, the next line states that the cache had rolled under the car from where it had been stashed. No doubt the previous finder did not replace it right and being round it rolled out.

 

No one seems to read all the way.

 

I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

 

I stand corrected. I did miss that.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Sorry, I'm still not a believer. The "letter" says the state employee thought it was planted there. So they either saw a cacher accidently drop it before it rolled under, or they just happened to walk up to their vehichle and noticed a camo container that a cacher dropped. Either way, the cacher had to have decided to leave it there rather than retrieve it. If it was so hard to retrieve, how wold it be noticed by a casual observer?

 

Yes there are scenarios where such a thing can happen, they all just seem very unlikely to me.

 

Sometimes an object can sit in one place for weeks and then suddenly move, I've seen it happen. Nothing at all odd or improbable about this scenario, I have no doubt it happened just as stated.

Regardless it is a very straight forward request here from Groundspeak, clearly label your cache containers. It's been a requirement all along, it's easy to do, there is not a single valid reason it can't be done, so why all the debate? Label them and move on.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

From the letter in the first post:

 

Just last month we had a state employee call in, saying there was a suspicious object planted under his vehicle, that was parked near the xxxx State Capital. He thought it was possibly a pipe bomb.

 

Doesn't it seem odd that this geocaching trooper would claim there was a geocache under a car?

 

That seems EXTREMELY odd to me. That's why I call bull hockey on the entire email.

 

You all stop reading to soon, the next line states that the cache had rolled under the car from where it had been stashed. No doubt the previous finder did not replace it right and being round it rolled out.

 

No one seems to read all the way.

 

I notice that quite a few folks are using the "cache under a car" argument for saying the incident isn't true, yet a few sentences later, "In this case, the geocache some how rolled out from where it was stashed, and the state employee thought someone planted it under his car."

 

"Joe Paranoid?" What about the cacher who doesn't bother to read?

 

I stand corrected. I did miss that.

 

That was posted after the post I replied to, I did read it after I posted and scrolled on done, but at that post I had already read the same argument posted numerous times with no response so I stopped to reply. So there ya old Pirate

[Andronicus]

Well to some non-geocachers, all of this labeling and all that stuff just don't matter. There was a deliberate bomb scare in Boise in late August of 2007. A cacher had a TB hotel on his property, chained to his fence and one of the neighbors, obviously a geocache hater, made up a sock puppet account and went onto the cache page and left a nasty log about how the cache was in violation of this and that and all that crap. Then, this person proceeded to call the bomb squad, instead of being an adult and talking to the cache owner about it. The bomb squad came out and I'm sure you can imagine the rest. This idiot knew that it was a geocache before they called the bomb squad, hence the sock puppet account. In my humble opinion, they should have been arrested for intentionally getting everything stirred up. Needless to say the cache was archived and the cacher quit caching. Some people just don't care, they like to start drama and cause problems.

 

Knowing my nosey neighbours, that is probably what would happen if I tried puting a cache in my yard. BTW, calling the bomb squad when you know the object is not a bomb is illigal, and if there was evidence, the person would be charged.

[knowschad]

Of the last 7 caches I placed, one was a bison tube stuck in a hole in a fence post. The others all clearly said 'GEOCACHING' or 'GEOCACHE' on the container. Not sure how far out into the woods the bomb techs get.

I'm not sure, but I believe that you need the word, "OFFICIAL" in there somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Team Cotati]

I want to add this to what I posted above:

 

To the anonymous original poster; There is no doubt that a problem exists, and I did not intend to minimize that problem, nor your concern by posting what I did. The point that I was trying to make is that the solution needs to take place on both sides of the equation. That many police departments across the country still have never ever heard of geocaching, ten years after its inception, is inexcusable. That, for the most part, they won't even attempt to determine (after they cordon off the area) if the object just MIGHT be a harmless geocache, is very problematic for me as well.

 

The fact of the matter is that whenever this topic comes up, and we all know that it comes up often, it does result in minimizing the seriousness of the issue. It would be a tremenduous help if the auditions for 'open mic night' at the corner comedy club were omitted.

 

Of course you could say the same for those poor schmucks who make the egregious mistake of asking 'how to become a reviewer'. Difference being that this is a slightly more serious topic.

[knowschad]

I want to add this to what I posted above:

 

To the anonymous original poster; There is no doubt that a problem exists, and I did not intend to minimize that problem, nor your concern by posting what I did. The point that I was trying to make is that the solution needs to take place on both sides of the equation. That many police departments across the country still have never ever heard of geocaching, ten years after its inception, is inexcusable. That, for the most part, they won't even attempt to determine (after they cordon off the area) if the object just MIGHT be a harmless geocache, is very problematic for me as well.

 

The fact of the matter is that whenever this topic comes up, and we all know that it comes up often, it does result in minimizing the seriousness of the issue. It would be a tremenduous help if the auditions for 'open mic night' at the corner comedy club were omitted.

 

Of course you could say the same for those poor schmucks who make the egregious mistake of asking 'how to become a reviewer'. Difference being that this is a slightly more serious topic.

Thank you for your input.

[+bittsen]

Aside from all the banter of whether or not the letter was really written by a real LEO. Aside from the argument of whether or not the cache actually rolled from it's hiding spot. And aside from GS asking for geocaches to be labeled.

 

I can give ONE good solid reason for labeling Geocaches as Geocaches.

 

If, and when, the bomb squad shows up, AND if and when they render your geocache as "safe", AND if and when you are sent a bill for the "making safe" of your geocache, you can come back with 100% innocence by saying "it was labeled as a geocache and listed on the geocaching website" and, assuming you are in a fair court, be given a walk and maybe even an apology.

 

I think that's a good enough reason to spend an extra 15 seconds to label a container.

[+Moose Mob]

Locally, we had the bomb squad send a robot to the container, saw the clear plastic container and a handwritten "official geocache" on it. One of the officers knew what it was, walked up to the container, signed the log book and left a small stack of Junior Police Officer stickers.

[knowschad]

Aside from all the banter of whether or not the letter was really written by a real LEO. Aside from the argument of whether or not the cache actually rolled from it's hiding spot. And aside from GS asking for geocaches to be labeled.

I can give ONE good solid reason for labeling Geocaches as Geocaches.

If, and when, the bomb squad shows up, AND if and when they render your geocache as "safe", AND if and when you are sent a bill for the "making safe" of your geocache, you can come back with 100% innocence by saying "it was labeled as a geocache and listed on the geocaching website" and, assuming you are in a fair court, be given a walk and maybe even an apology.

I think that's a good enough reason to spend an extra 15 seconds to label a container.

Yeah, until they say, "Show us that sticker"...

[+ThePetersTrio]

Locally, we had the bomb squad send a robot to the container, saw the clear plastic container and a handwritten "official geocache" on it. One of the officers knew what it was, walked up to the container, signed the log book and left a small stack of Junior Police Officer stickers.

 

I love it!

[+Castle Mischief]

Locally, we had the bomb squad send a robot to the container, saw the clear plastic container and a handwritten "official geocache" on it. One of the officers knew what it was, walked up to the container, signed the log book and left a small stack of Junior Police Officer stickers.

 

Why can't these stories ever make the news?

[Clan Riffster]

I'll go you one further. Ban caches placed in parking lots.

My only problem with this idea is that I'm not overly fond of outright bans on any specific locations. I agree that it would likely have the desired effect, in that less cachees would get an unexpected introduction to a water cannon, however I think that's analogous to using a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. I also don't think Groundspeak would support your idea any more than they would mine, as both would result in a decrease of income for their company. In today's world, profit margins trump common sense every time.

[+Moose Mob]

I'll go you one further. Ban caches placed in parking lots.

My only problem with this idea is that I'm not overly fond of outright bans on any specific locations. I agree that it would likely have the desired effect, in that less cachees would get an unexpected introduction to a water cannon, however I think that's analogous to using a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. I also don't think Groundspeak would support your idea any more than they would mine, as both would result in a decrease of income for their company. In today's world, profit margins trump common sense every time.

 

This thread isn't about you. It's about marking cache containers. Please stay on topic. thanks

[+Castle Mischief]

Edited to avoid being off-topic.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Castle Mischief

[Clan Riffster]

This thread isn't about you. It's about marking cache containers. Please stay on topic. thanks

My apologies for straying. It was my understanding that the thread was about some guy, claiming to be a LEO, dealing with an unmarked cache under a car. He posted an idea, (a good idea, though one already covered by our guidelines), which he felt might have alleviated some of the concern brought about by the incident. I figured additional suggestions geared toward preventing similar incidents would be on topic.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

This thread isn't about you. It's about marking cache containers. Please stay on topic. thanks

My apologies for straying. It was my understanding that the thread was about some guy, claiming to be a LEO, dealing with an unmarked cache under a car. He posted an idea, (a good idea, though one already covered by our guidelines), which he felt might have alleviated some of the concern brought about by the incident. I figured additional suggestions geared toward preventing similar incidents would be on topic.

 

No, this thread is a simple request from Groundspeak that all caches be marked with the Groudspeak label to identify what they are, and Groudspeak posted the letter they received to show why they had to ask once again that people follow the posted guidelines.

[Clan Riffster]

No, this thread is a simple request from Groundspeak that all caches be marked with the Groudspeak label to identify what they are, and Groudspeak posted the letter they received to show why they had to ask once again that people follow the posted guidelines.

Brad's opening paragraph stated:

Please do what you can to ensure that geocache containers are not easily mistaken for a dangerous object.

Marking them clearly is one solution.

There are other solutions out there as well.

Are these other solutions off topic?

 

Back on topic: Mark your containers!

[+Harry Dolphin]

Nanos! The answer is nanos! Has anyone ever blown up a nano thinking it were a bomb?

Myself, I have more problems with bears chewing on my caches...

[knowschad]

Nanos! The answer is nanos! Has anyone ever blown up a nano thinking it were a bomb? Myself, I have more problems with bears chewing on my caches...

Does anybody know where I can obtain an "Official Geocache Game Piece" sticker for my nanos?

[+bittsen]

Nanos! The answer is nanos! Has anyone ever blown up a nano thinking it were a bomb? Myself, I have more problems with bears chewing on my caches...

Does anybody know where I can obtain an "Official Geocache Game Piece" sticker for my nanos?

 

I was going to make a small image, 3px by 3px and then post it and pretend it was a nano label and even tell you that you would have to squint to read it but I decided that I was too lazy to do a mock up of a simple little joke. The few laughs wouldn't be worth as much as the 48 seconds it would take to make the graphic.

 

So, use your imagination.

[+dorothy&scarecrow]

he just asked me to write down where i hide all caches so his office knows in case there is an issue. also he wanted me to make a copy so the local police had a listing so if they got calls about something funny they would know what was goin on. so i plan on that.

Did you tell him that he can get a free premium account here so he can not only know where your caches are, but any others? Did he at least know what geocaching was, ten years after it started?

 

i used my salesman(woman?) skills and maybe geocaching will be welcoming the mayor of a small city to the world of geocaching. i printed off some brochers from HeadHardHat's website and left them with him and the others in the office.

[knowschad]

Nanos! The answer is nanos! Has anyone ever blown up a nano thinking it were a bomb? Myself, I have more problems with bears chewing on my caches...

Does anybody know where I can obtain an "Official Geocache Game Piece" sticker for my nanos?

I was going to make a small image, 3px by 3px and then post it and pretend it was a nano label and even tell you that you would have to squint to read it but I decided that I was too lazy to do a mock up of a simple little joke. The few laughs wouldn't be worth as much as the 48 seconds it would take to make the graphic.

So, use your imagination.

Sigh... OK, I guess I will have to do it myself:

 

[+TripCyclone]

Okay, just to add some food for thought.

 

The LEO in the letter claims to be a geocacher. If it were me, I would be informing my fellow LEO's about this activity. Then, I would go the extra step to set up a free account on the site that any LEO in their office can access. But wait, then I would show them all out to pull up a location on the site to see if a geocache is published at that location. This would seemingly aid the process of identifying if a suspicious object MIGHT be a geocache. A quick comparison of the site to the description, maybe even a GPS quickly loaded with the coordinates, could be used to further verify whether it was a geocache or not. Heck, they could even look on the logs and see if their geocaching coworker had found it, then call them to verify the hide. This simple act could be done in a matter of minutes by someone who has been trained on how to pull up the information.

 

It would seem logical that this geocaching LEO could help verify the objects as geocaches to avoid expenses. I'm wondering if they even considered that. Especially with all the times this has made the news, and even the more recent move by GS to help law enforcement reduce the incidents by allowing them to create accounts to help track geocaches.

 

Of course, you could always use the arguement that the terrorists need only create a fake account and publish a cache listing at that location to try and convince people it was a real geocache. Though it would really only affect the FTF, so not the most effective way to make your point.

 

And I noticed someone else ask why word hasn't spread more throughout LEO's around the country to help aid the process. There has to be some officer's out there who have developed a system to handle suspicious geocache calls.

[+Team Cotati]

Locally, we had the bomb squad send a robot to the container, saw the clear plastic container and a handwritten "official geocache" on it. One of the officers knew what it was, walked up to the container, signed the log book and left a small stack of Junior Police Officer stickers.

 

Why can't these stories ever make the news?

 

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.

[+PhxChem]

I'll go you one further. Ban caches placed in parking lots.

My only problem with this idea is that I'm not overly fond of outright bans on any specific locations. I agree that it would likely have the desired effect, in that less cachees would get an unexpected introduction to a water cannon, however I think that's analogous to using a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. I also don't think Groundspeak would support your idea any more than they would mine, as both would result in a decrease of income for their company. In today's world, profit margins trump common sense every time.

 

This thread isn't about you. It's about marking cache containers. Please stay on topic. thanks

 

There's no need to be snippy....seriously, what's the problem?

 

Do we need to now write all our posts in 3rd person?

 

PhxChem would not like that!!

[4wheelin_fool]

Some caches are just a combination of incompatible ideas. Anything shaped like a pipe in a very public area is just a bad idea.

 

Geocache stickers are better, but not universally recognized.

 

Take some official logo information from a local recognizable bank, such as Wachovia or Bank of America and attach it to the outside, and it will likely never be blown up...

[+Sol seaker]

I really appreciate you re-posting the notice from the police about labeling our caches.

 

People on this topic are trying to debate all sorts of things, from whether this will help or not, to whether it's hopeless to label, etc.

 

But the fact is, THE POLICE HAVE REQUESTED WE DO THIS

 

So they must think it will do some good.

 

Not a difficult request.

 

thanks for re-posting it.

[Brad_W]

Thanks to everyone for the good and sometimes spirited discussion. Certainly labeling geocache containers is not a silver bullet that will prevent all future mis-identification of caches, and as noted in several replies it is hard to apply in some cases. Please just do what you can where you can and the incremental improvement in the situation will make a difference.

 

Thanks again.

 

-Brad

[Clan Riffster]

THE POLICE HAVE REQUESTED WE DO THIS

And, it's in the guidelines. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

[GermanSailor]

Please do what you can to ensure that geocache containers are not easily mistaken for a dangerous object.

"Please do what you can to ensure that bombs to kill infidels are easily mistaken for a geocache."

Might be heard somewhere, someday.

 

The point is: Just because a certain sticker, text or decal says that it is harmless, doesn't mean it actually is. Especially IEDs are disguised as everything.

 

A bit of common sense when hiding a geocache helps. Don't hide something so John Doe thinks that has to be a bomb, because in the movies they all look the same. (Cutting the blue wire always disarms an explosive.... ) The next thing is the location. Some places are just off-limits. There is no need for a geocache everywhere!

 

GermanSailor

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Robot cams are only about $15K. Cheap enough every police dept could have a few and cut down on their excessive use of the bomb squad to find the cache.

[+jaroot]

It sure is a good thing that terrorists can't get an account on geocaching.com and plant their bombs following "most" of the guidelines and properly labeling their bomb as an "official geocache.

[+va griz]

I guess I got side tracked by the quirks in the letter, but I do think it's a great idea to label caches. Even if there is no "official" sticker, it might satisfy the curiosity of a muggle that finds it and prevent a bomb scare in the first place.

[+larryc43230]

I guess I got side tracked by the quirks in the letter, but I do think it's a great idea to label caches. Even if there is no "official" sticker, it might satisfy the curiosity of a muggle that finds it and prevent a bomb scare in the first place.

This is an excellent point. Once the bomb squad is called in, the cache is pretty much toast 99% of the time. However, a sticker clearly identifying a container as a cache might just satisfy a muggle's curiosity enough to prevent the police from being called in the first place.

 

Another reason to label caches clearly. Couldn't hurt!

 

--Larry

Edited January 17, 2010 by larryc43230

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

I guess I got side tracked by the quirks in the letter, but I do think it's a great idea to label caches. Even if there is no "official" sticker, it might satisfy the curiosity of a muggle that finds it and muggle it enough to archive it prevent a bomb scare in the first place.

This is an excellent point. Once the bomb squad is called in, the cache is pretty much toast 99% of the time. However, a sticker clearly identifying a container as a cache might just satisfy a muggle's curiosity enough to muggle it enough to archive it and prevent the police from being called in the first place.

 

Another reason to label caches clearly. Couldn't hurt!

 

--Larry

 

Fixed.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

But the fact is, THE POLICE HAVE REQUESTED WE DO THIS

 

 

A single officer in an area that I may or may not live in requested this. A police offcer is not THE POLICE.

 

Label your caches because it's in the guidelines and it's a measure of common sense.

[+thedeadpirate]

I was watching Mythbusters tonight and they were doing an explosion and the bomb guy had a sense of humor that made me think of this thread.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZucaGkWmSQA