Abusive email from cache owner

[+smstext]

Hi

 

Im not normally cheesed off to this extent, but when i receive an email from a cache owner who i havent been able to find their puzzle cache ask for a tip in what i need to do only to receive abuse from the guy.

 

I logged the cache as dnf as i couldnt find it and did email the co ords to make sure i got (or in this case didnt get) the right spot. Yet this guy we met at a previous cache where he claimed FTF but didnt log his dnf for the cache when he turned up there the day before.

 

A couple other cachers have tried the same cache today and as it has no co ords just a picture we all have ended up at the spot the picture was taken from. There is no other help apart from its under a dead elder tree, but there is plenty of them about, its like saying its a lampost cache in a huge car park and not give co ordinates.

 

But back to subject who can i complain too as im not happy with his choice of language and this was sent from another family man too.

[aniyn]

If it's that bad you can report it to Groundspeak, and they might take some sort of action.

[Keystone]

If the message was sent through the Geocaching.com "email a player" tool, then its contents are subject to the Groundspeak Terms of Use. You can forward the message to contact@geocaching.com to ask for an investigation of your complaint.

 

Thank you for not copying the profanity, etc., from the message you received.

[+smstext]

No problems Mr Keystone, I dont want to advertise the cache owner, nor the cache here, just want to get the issue resolved and hopefully if the cache owner does see this thread he will realise that what he has done is wrong.

 

n.b. another mod has given me the details to forward etc, so will let Groundspeak see what (if any) action they can or want to take.

 

Thanks for the help.

[+bittsen]

You could go after the guy and get him in trouble with Groundspeak OR you could just realize that it's the personality of the cache owner, ignore it, and go on with your life without giving it another thought.

 

Don't pet the sweaty things, I always say.

[+cachensfun]

Its just one cache you'll never find. That's how we see most puzzles.

[+CosmicMiami]

You could go after the guy and get him in trouble with Groundspeak OR you could just realize that it's the personality of the cache owner, ignore it, and go on with your life without giving it another thought.

 

Don't pet the sweaty things, I always say.

 

Agreed. Always the better choice. No harm to you. Let it go. You can always inform the CO that you thought their behavior was inappropriate and give the reasons. Be nice about it. Then move on with life. Recognize that there are many different personalities in the world. Some people you like. Some you don't.

 

Breath deep.

[+Willie Wandering]

I would rather not air dirty laundry in public, but now it's been forced upon me... I'm happy to advertise my name -- It's me -- and the cache, GC21D6W.

 

It does have coordinates. If it did not, it would not have been published under the guidelines:

 

GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

Within 12 hours of it being published I received about a dozen emails, two DNF and a log note from smstext. As soon as I was aware he was looking in the wrong place I corrected him and gave him a 'tip' that he first needed to find the coordinates before the cache.

 

Found the 2 spots the photos were taken and searched both areas remembering the difference between hawthorn and elder but to no avail. A nice puzzle but no cache

 

Went back a second time and bumped into the legendary {removed by williewandering for discretion} who I could see checking every tree. Together we looked as 2 pairs are better than one and still no avail so at least i knew we had the correct spot.

 

Unless the cache has gone missing overnight, you do not have the correct spot. Several of the emails you've sent seem to confirm you do not have the correct spot. Are you sure you have entered the coordinates into your GPS unit correctly?

The coordinates should take you straight to it. Assuming you have actually worked out the puzzle element.

 

He refused to believe me, and got increasingly irate. Among other things implying it was my fault he tore his waterproofs. His next log and the gist of further emails read:

 

i have sent you an email with the co ordinates as it be pointless to post them publically. i was in the correct spot as if two geocachers find the same spot then im sure we have it correct, the photo speaks a million words and what i have emailed you will show that i am at the correct spot for the photo and i have named the correct spot for where the photo with the coin was taken.

 

Perhaps another day, will watch to see if anyone else is honest enough to post their dnf's

Emphasis mine.

 

These logs have since been deleted by smstext.

 

Finally having had enough of what I saw as obsessive behaviour, I emailed:

Did you receive my previous email?

 

I have no time to deal with your obsessive attitude, or your bitching about ruined clothes and injuries, or wrong coords. It's only a f***ing plastic box!

 

If you don't have anything positive to say, say nothing. If you can't work out puzzle caches, don't do puzzle caches.

 

Please don't contact me again.

 

I have since apologised for the use (to accentuate my feelings) of a word he found offensive. But still it goes on. Many others would vouch that it is not, in fact, my personality.

 

I concur with others comments here... Move on. It's just a cache. Don't pet the sweaty things -- which I particularly liked.

 

Thank you for your time.

Edited December 6, 2009 by williewandering

[uperdooper]

I would rather not air dirty laundry in public, but now it's been forced upon me... I'm happy to advertise my name -- It's me -- and the cache, GC21D6W.

 

It does have coordinates. If it did not, it would not have been published under the guidelines:

 

GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

Within 12 hours of it being published I received about a dozen emails, two DNF and a log note from smstext. As soon as I was aware he was looking in the wrong place I corrected him and gave him a 'tip' that he first needed to find the coordinates before the cache.

 

Found the 2 spots the photos were taken and searched both areas remembering the difference between hawthorn and elder but to no avail. A nice puzzle but no cache

 

Went back a second time and bumped into the legendary {removed by williewandering for discretion} who I could see checking every tree. Together we looked as 2 pairs are better than one and still no avail so at least i knew we had the correct spot.

 

Unless the cache has gone missing overnight, you do not have the correct spot. Several of the emails you've sent seem to confirm you do not have the correct spot. Are you sure you have entered the coordinates into your GPS unit correctly?

The coordinates should take you straight to it. Assuming you have actually worked out the puzzle element.

 

He refused to believe me, and got increasingly irate. Among other things implying it was my fault he tore his waterproofs. His next log and the gist of further emails read:

 

i have sent you an email with the co ordinates as it be pointless to post them publically. i was in the correct spot as if two geocachers find the same spot then im sure we have it correct, the photo speaks a million words and what i have emailed you will show that i am at the correct spot for the photo and i have named the correct spot for where the photo with the coin was taken.

 

Perhaps another day, will watch to see if anyone else is honest enough to post their dnf's

Emphasis mine.

 

These logs have since been deleted by smstext.

 

Finally having had enough of what I saw as obsessive behaviour, I emailed:

Did you receive my previous email?

 

I have no time to deal with your obsessive attitude, or your bitching about ruined clothes and injuries, or wrong coords. It's only a f***ing plastic box!

 

If you don't have anything positive to say, say nothing. If you can't work out puzzle caches, don't do puzzle caches.

 

Please don't contact me again.

 

I have since apologised for the use (to accentuate my feelings) of a word he found offensive. But still it goes on. Many others would vouch that it is not, in fact, my personality.

 

I concur with others comments here... Move on. It's just a cache. Don't pet the sweaty things -- which I particularly liked.

 

Thank you for your time.

nothing was forced on you. i would never have known who the CO was if you hadn't come here. don't blame the OP for your coming here.

Edited December 6, 2009 by uperdooper

[+w_makit]

williewandering -

Don't take this wrong, but this WHOLE game is about finding a "plastic box" hidden in the woods. Obviously, some people had difficulties with your cache, with your hint, and with a tip (that was supposedly given). I can understand your frustration about someone that doesn't seem to get your brilliantly laid plans, however as the CO, you also have some obligation to conintue this sport. If you cannot take the time to provide some assistance to people that are having problems with your caches, STOP HIDING THEM! As a seeker, there is nothing more frustrating than to go out to a location, exhaust hours fruitlessly trying to find a cache, give up, email the CO and get absolutely nothing in return (or pointed vulgarities). Even worse when the CO will adamantly refuse to check to see if their cache is EVEN STILL THERE.

I read SMSTEXTs message that you placed emphasis on, and I didn't find anything in it that would justify a response such as yours. From your post here, I would beg to differ that it MIGHT just be your personality at play here. You seemed to believe that all his posts necessitated your response. I beg to differ. What if SMSTEXT was a child? Would that necessitate a response such as yours?

How about, just for a change, try and help the guy to find what you meant with the correct spot.....

[+Willie Wandering]

nothing was forced on you. i would never have known who the CO was if you hadn't come here. don't blame the OP for your coming here.

 

Very true. I could, after someone had alerted me to the thread, have left a one sided portrayal to go unchallenged. That is probably what I will end up doing.

[uperdooper]

nothing was forced on you. i would never have known who the CO was if you hadn't come here. don't blame the OP for your coming here.

 

Very true. I could, after someone had alerted me to the thread, have left a one sided portrayal to go unchallenged. That is probably what I will end up doing.

kinda late for that.

[+The Blorenges]

As this was a brand new cache, I can understand that the cache owner would not want to give out further hints, at least not until the FTF had been claimed... as it now has.

 

It's just a pity that the email exchange seems to have got a bit "over-heated".

 

(Having now looked at the cache page I think it's a good, amusing puzzle.)

 

Now... perhaps both sides could just re-consider their words, maybe mutter "sorry" to each other and agree to meet up for a pint, or a cuppa, sometime?

 

MrsB

[+w_makit]

Oh Willie -

One other thing, just for the record, I think the puzzle that you have added into it is a pretty cool puzzle. It didn't take me long to figure out what you had to do. It just still doesn't detract from being a responsible CO. IMHO

I agree with MrsB, if this was about the FTF, just say that you don't want to give out anymore hints until someone claims FTF. Then....help your fellow cachers

Edited December 6, 2009 by w_makit

[+Willie Wandering]

w_makit

 

With respect the frustration was with smstext refusing to except that he was in the wrong location, after I corrected him. And, as I omitted to mention before, also after a complaint against me to a moderator complaining the cache was not at the location in the view -- it is not stated that it is.

 

Had smstext shown any evidence that he had attempted to work out the puzzle -- after I informed him it was not just a case of going to where the picture was taken-- then I would have helped. He simply insisted that I was wrong. Even after FTF and allowing others to have a fair go at it, I would have happily helped, I still would and have offered such help

 

To be clear, the section I added emphasis to was after I explained he needed to find some coordinates.

 

My potty mouth occurred after and was in response to several more emails.

 

Finally, I am yet to see any evidence that anyone else has been in the least bit perturbed by either the puzzle or not finding the cache. The only correspondence on the subject have been appreciative.

[+Willie Wandering]

Thank you. I'm glad you liked the puzzle and that you worked it out so easily. I'm sure had smstext spent less time emailing me about failed searches and torn clothing, he too could have worked it out.

 

Mr B, the sorry and the pint has been offered from this end. Not yet accepted.

[+w_makit]

Willie -

Telling a person that they are in the wrong location (repetitively), is not help. Help would be suggesting that they try a different tack, or look at it from a different perspective. Just telling someone that they are in the wrong location, abuses their belief that they solved the puzzle correctly. It doesn't tell them what they would need to do to SOLVE the puzzle correctly. IE., "Yes, that is the place that the picture was taken from, but maybe you should look at........."

Notice a difference?

[+larryc43230]

Willie -

Telling a person that they are in the wrong location (repetitively), is not help. Help would be suggesting that they try a different tack, or look at it from a different perspective. Just telling someone that they are in the wrong location, abuses their belief that they solved the puzzle correctly. It doesn't tell them what they would need to do to SOLVE the puzzle correctly. IE., "Yes, that is the place that the picture was taken from, but maybe you should look at........."

Notice a difference?

Why is williewandering somehow obligated to provide any additional hints until after the cache has been found at least once (or, for that matter, even after that)? He is perfectly within his rights to give or not give any additional hints.

 

There is a puzzle cache in my area that has yet to be found after more than two years. The cache owner hasn't provided any additional hints, and though lots of cachers have begged for hints, no one has complained (a couple have offered bribes, but that's another story ).

 

There is no rule requiring or even encouraging a cache owner to help or not help other cachers solve their puzzles or find their caches. It's all the prerogative of the cache owner.

 

--Larry

[+Willie Wandering]

W_makit

 

Again, with respect. You are assuming I am sitting around with nothing better to do than geocaching business. If I did I would be out finding them rather than dealing with one person whipping himself into a fit to be FTF.

 

By the time I had a chance to check my email and cache page things were already escalating.

 

Yes I could have dealt with it better (it's only mrs willie that thinks I'm perfect), but the point is he filed a complaint against me (thankfully dealt with even handedly) when he had not -- I repeat not -- shown any evidence that he had even attempted to find any coordinates. Not to mention the insinuation that I had wasted his time and ruined his clothing.

 

Yes I could have dealt with it better, or even just published the coordinates on the page. And he could have let the cache go (and instead given me a hand with the jobs that keep me from getting out of the house)

Edited December 6, 2009 by williewandering

[+w_makit]

Larry -

I agree that giving hints is up to the individual CO. However after carrying on a conversation with him and getting frustrated that your hint of "You're not in the right place" wasn't working, resorting to such language is reprehensable. The easiest solution (if you would prefer not to give hints) is to either not respond (which I think is just blatantly rude), or to respond with a simple statement (ie., "I would prefer not to provide hints to make it a challenge".

There is almost nothing more frustrating as a cacher, to let a CO know that there might be a problem with their cache, and either get no response, or some frustrating and irritating response. Bottom line in my opinion, if you get frustrated by a cacher trying to find your caches and emailing you, don't put out caches. Or only put out the most simplistic caches that take no effort to find.......

In my opinion, a CO that provides a requested hint (read as not telling me EXACTLY where the cache is hidden....I hate that), is a CO that I enjoy hunting for their caches.

[+w_makit]

W_makit

 

Again, with respect. You are assuming I am sitting around with nothing better to do than geocaching business. If I did I would be out finding them rather than dealing with one person whipping himself into a fit to be FTF.

 

By the time I had a chance to check my email and cache page things were already escalating.

 

Yes I could have dealt with it better (it's only mrs willie that thinks I'm perfect), but the point is he filed a complaint against me (thankfully dealt with even handedly) when he had not -- I repeat not -- shown any evidence that he had even attempted to find any coordinates. Not to mention the insinuation that I had wasted his time and ruined his clothing.

 

Yes I could have dealt with it better, or even just published the coordinates on the page. And he could have let the cache go (and instead given me a hand with the jobs that keep me from getting out of the house)

 

Oh, please....PLEASE don't make the cache easier by posting its exact coordinates. IMHO that would be worse than the spat with the cacher.. (and a travesty to an interesting cache). Almost nothing worse in my opinion than a CO that comes right out and tells you that the cache is exactly at XYZ.... I wasn't kidding when I said that I really liked the cache.

The problem with him destroying his clothes... Well IMHO (again), thats just the nature of the game. I expect to get everything I take out there (including myself) to get beat up just a little.... lets me know that I am alive...

I don't remember seeing anything in the posts about a complaint....posting a complaint about the languaged used, okay. A complaint about messed up clothes, unable to find cache, not getting hints..... really?

[+bittsen]

Why not reply with "what coordinates did you end up with after solving the puzzle?" and then replying with yes, or no when the coordinates were sent?

 

Personally if someone sends me an email asking for more help finding one of my caches, I usually reply with a hint or a question as to how much help they want. I will give them the exact location if they want it.

My caches do absolutely no good if they are never found.

 

In many ways, I think there are a few people out there who just enjoy the control they have when someone can't find their cache. The good thing is that geocaching is made up of people from all walks of life so if a cache can't be found it's easy enough to ignore it and head to one from someone else.

[+Willie Wandering]

I am always more than happy to help anyone and have done so on numerous occasions.

 

I don't appreciate being bombarded with emails and told I don't know where I hid my cache.

[+Willie Wandering]

Bittsen.

 

That is essentially what I said. Check the logs I posted above. At the time of my first log he had not supplied me with any coords to check. When he did (and insisted it was GZ) I then confirmed he had the wrong coords. It was just after this he filed a report that the cache was not in the right place.

 

This is in danger of stirring a hornets nest again. I have offered an olive branch and it's not fair on smstext to continue the argument without him having time to considered that offering.

 

Thank you all for hearing my side. I will refrain from further comment, for now at least.

[+Cpl. Klinger]

You might want to think about adding a check coordinates link for you puzzle. That way people can check the coordinates for themselves. I know that some owner don't like the option but I have one for one of my puzzle caches, it has made thinks a lot easier for me.

[+bittsen]

Bittsen.

 

That is essentially what I said. Check the logs I posted above. At the time of my first log he had not supplied me with any coords to check. When he did (and insisted it was GZ) I then confirmed he had the wrong coords. It was just after this he filed a report that the cache was not in the right place.

 

This is in danger of stirring a hornets nest again. I have offered an olive branch and it's not fair on smstext to continue the argument without him having time to considered that offering.

 

Thank you all for hearing my side. I will refrain from further comment, for now at least.

 

The only advice I would give for future encounters of this sort is to remember that geocaching is a hobby enjoyed by many different types of people with many different types of personalities.

Having said that, remember that you may have been dealing with a 14 year old kid with social issues or ADD (not implying that you were, of course because the particular cacher has posted here and doesn't appear to be impaired in any way). When you don't know who you are speaking to, it's best to err on the side of caution with your words.

Just friendly advice, of course.

 

Another reason to watch what you say (and how you say it) to other cachers is that you can't be sure they are scrupulous cachers (again, not implying anything as to the scruples of the OP) and there is a definate possibility that, someday, you might anger the wrong cacher and all of a sudden you have your caches disappearing. I have been told that this has happened in the past with a few people.

 

My only comment for the future is to temper your emails. It is really easy to ignore people you don't want to deal with in emails if you don't feel like tempering them.

[+boda]

You might want to think about adding a check coordinates link for you puzzle. That way people can check the coordinates for themselves. I know that some owner don't like the option but I have one for one of my puzzle caches, it has made thinks a lot easier for me.

Normally, I would agree with you - but it is not needed in this case.

[+GeePa]

It never ceases to amaze me how caught up people can get in this game/activity/sport. There is no money or lives or anything at stake here. It is just a game! If I was the CO here I would have just simply stopped responding to the queries and gone on about my life as I would have recognized that once someone had found it by solving the puzzle (which gives EXACT coordinates) then the point would be made.

 

That said, I enjoyed solving the puzzle (only really took a few minutes really) and if I am ever over in the area of the cache I will definitely try and grab this one. Looks like a lovely area.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

You might want to think about adding a check coordinates link for you puzzle. That way people can check the coordinates for themselves. I know that some owner don't like the option but I have one for one of my puzzle caches, it has made thinks a lot easier for me.

Normally, I would agree with you - but it is not needed in this case.

 

I don't know about that. I haven't looked at the puzzle but it seems to me that at least of couple of people thought they had solved it such that they were searching in the same location, and, of course this thread would not exist if there was a coodinate checker.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

You might want to think about adding a check coordinates link for you puzzle. That way people can check the coordinates for themselves. I know that some owner don't like the option but I have one for one of my puzzle caches, it has made thinks a lot easier for me.

Normally, I would agree with you - but it is not needed in this case.

 

I don't know about that. I haven't looked at the puzzle but it seems to me that at least of couple of people thought they had solved it such that they were searching in the same location, and, of course this thread would not exist if there was a coodinate checker.

 

I have a similar puzzle. When people email with tacts they are taking to try to solve it, I gently nudge them in the right direction. When asked for a coordinate checker, I replied that when you find the coordinates, you will know they are the coordinates. I provide enough hints to get the cacher looking in the right direction for the solution. I enjoy the subsequent emails when they tell me "Doh! Figured it out! Great puzzle!" Yes I want my caches found, but it's always enjoyable to have the cacher figure it out, vice me giving it away.

[+GeePa]

I don't know about that. I haven't looked at the puzzle but it seems to me that at least of couple of people thought they had solved it such that they were searching in the same location, and, of course this thread would not exist if there was a coodinate checker.

 

In this case, it is not like one of those math puzzles or something where you are not sure you did the math right. When you have found the coordinates there is no doubt that they are the correct coordinates here.

[+smstext]

Right Williewandering I will now correct some of your posts and tons of emails that I have received from you. Not at any stage did i send you dozens of emails, i made two posts on the cache page and sent you two emails then you replied and i sent you the co ords of where i had been.

 

Im not getting into a tit for tat but your first response to me was full of profanity. Having children who are keen to find caches eager to find some see the potty mouth languaged you used was not nice.

 

Ok all today you have sent me email after email offering the location co ordinates which IS NOT what I want. All I asked for when you said I was wrong was a tip as i really couldnt see the answer.

 

It was thanks to a local cacher after I added the picture to my facebook page asking people where is the view that another cacher who Im friends with hinted to me to stop using the one on facebook (and saved onto my iphone) and actually view it with a proper computer. Guess what? that tip was all i needed to find the answer as a 24 inch screen with the original picture showed me what i was looking for more than a saved picture (to save bandwidth) on a small screen iphone.

 

Just a tip to the CO in future if someone has problems try and give them a tip or a nudge, no one is asking you to hand them the co ordinates and after all you done the puzzle so will always seem easy to the creator. Never have I (and i have 26 more caches to CO) have ever been rude to a fellow cacher. One cacher was on top of a recent cache I had placed (literally) and after giving them a pointer to approch it from a different angle (the intended way) and view it with the clue for 50ft that they will get the hint and find it which they did once they figured out how to get the cache out (kinda 2 puzzles in one).

 

Yes its a game and in the 4 months I have been doing geocaching have only ever come across one rude person who i hope learns from this mistake. Maybe one day you will require my help with something? as they say what goes around comes around

[+Harry Dolphin]

Im not getting into a tit for tat but your first response to me was full of profanity. Having children who are keen to find caches eager to find some see the potty mouth languaged you used was not nice.

Now, everyone knows that I am the first to take offense at inappropriate language. In the text quoted, I see one obscenity, and absolutely no profanity. Yes. I would be mildly miffed at that, and probably put all of that owner's caches on my ignore list. Why feel the need to escalate?

Ok all today you have sent me email after email offering the location co ordinates which IS NOT what I want. All I asked for when you said I was wrong was a tip as i really couldnt see the answer.

As noted by others, a CO is under no responsibility to provide any other help. Yet, you continued to do so. I would be a bit miffed at that.

 

And, guess what! Life continues onward! Accept the pint offered, and go out and have fun. And stop aggravating things.

[+baloo&bd]

WOW! All this fuss over a puzzle that, by most we have seen, is among the easiest. Sitting here in the boonies of central Illinois it took about 3 mins to solve, and we don't do puzzles well.

 

If the OP has difficulty with puzzles, filter them out because, at least on this side of the pond, most COs of puzzles and unknown will not give a hint until it is found and you post a DNF. Even then you'll be lucky to get a hint.

 

Why place a puzzle if you have to essentially tell someone where it is?

[+bittsen]

WOW! All this fuss over a puzzle that, by most we have seen, is among the easiest. Sitting here in the boonies of central Illinois it took about 3 mins to solve, and we don't do puzzles well.

 

If the OP has difficulty with puzzles, filter them out because, at least on this side of the pond, most COs of puzzles and unknown will not give a hint until it is found and you post a DNF. Even then you'll be lucky to get a hint.

 

Why place a puzzle if you have to essentially tell someone where it is?

 

If it's that easy, I must be over thinking it.

[+thedeadpirate]

WOW! All this fuss over a puzzle that, by most we have seen, is among the easiest. Sitting here in the boonies of central Illinois it took about 3 mins to solve, and we don't do puzzles well.

 

If the OP has difficulty with puzzles, filter them out because, at least on this side of the pond, most COs of puzzles and unknown will not give a hint until it is found and you post a DNF. Even then you'll be lucky to get a hint.

 

Why place a puzzle if you have to essentially tell someone where it is?

 

If it's that easy, I must be over thinking it.

 

You're over thinking it.

 

We had one just like it around here. I find it quite amusing that the OP got so worked up over this. The CO is right. When you get the coords, you will KNOW you have the correct coords.

[+Cardinal Red]

This is not a monster puzzle. The proof is that even I know where it is. And if you think you need a coord checker, you have not solved it.

 

The good news is that smstext has now logged this with "500th Cache!!!" and a good narrative. All followed by "A great end to the day" and "Thanks for the cache". Hopefully they can now agree to enjoy that pint together.

[+power69]

Hi

 

Im not normally cheesed off to this extent, but when i receive an email from a cache owner who i havent been able to find their puzzle cache ask for a tip in what i need to do only to receive abuse from the guy.

 

I logged the cache as dnf as i couldnt find it and did email the co ords to make sure i got (or in this case didnt get) the right spot. Yet this guy we met at a previous cache where he claimed FTF but didnt log his dnf for the cache when he turned up there the day before.

 

A couple other cachers have tried the same cache today and as it has no co ords just a picture we all have ended up at the spot the picture was taken from. There is no other help apart from its under a dead elder tree, but there is plenty of them about, its like saying its a lampost cache in a huge car park and not give co ordinates.

 

But back to subject who can i complain too as im not happy with his choice of language and this was sent from another family man too.

Does the cache listing say anything like "absolutely no clues given via email"?

if so that could tee off the owner asking for help when the listing says 'no emails for help'

[+Frank Broughton]

Sounds like a setup to get traffic to the cache...... j/k!

[Mr.Yuck]

If the message was sent through the Geocaching.com "email a player" tool, then its contents are subject to the Groundspeak Terms of Use. You can forward the message to contact@geocaching.com to ask for an investigation of your complaint.

 

Thank you for not copying the profanity, etc., from the message you received.

 

That's OK, the forum software would have edited it out, and changed all the offensive words to dadgum.

 

Does "abuse@geocaching.com" work, and get monitored? That's kind of the internet standard sort of abuse reporting address.

[+bflentje]

WOW! All this fuss over a puzzle that, by most we have seen, is among the easiest. Sitting here in the boonies of central Illinois it took about 3 mins to solve, and we don't do puzzles well.

 

If the OP has difficulty with puzzles, filter them out because, at least on this side of the pond, most COs of puzzles and unknown will not give a hint until it is found and you post a DNF. Even then you'll be lucky to get a hint.

 

Why place a puzzle if you have to essentially tell someone where it is?

 

If it's that easy, I must be over thinking it.

 

Yep, pretty easy. Solved it in just a few minutes. Look at it again, you'll figure it out. Wish I could go make the find.

[+Willie Wandering]

You might want to think about adding a check coordinates link for you puzzle...

I don’t have the time I would like to get out finding caches and even less time to be more active within the community side. I have set two caches, as time allows, to pay back the community for the enjoyment we have had finding. One of the reasons I enjoy doing puzzles, and the main reason I decided to set puzzles, was because it provides a level of interaction with other cachers that I have time to deal with and I’m more than happy to do. If it was at all normal, within hours of a cache being published, to be bombarded with emails and DNF logs insisting I don’t know where I hid my cache, I would not even bother setting a cache, let alone providing a checker.

 

But thanks for the suggestion anyhow.

 

Having said that, remember that you may have been dealing with a 14 year old kid with social issues or ADD (not implying that you were, of course because the particular cacher has posted here and doesn't appear to be impaired in any way). When you don't know who you are speaking to, it's best to err on the side of caution with your words.

I did know who I was dealing with and besides, I have already said I sent that email in frustration. I am only human.

 

That said, if you’ll forgive me making a pedantic point... the same could be said reversed. I could have been 14 with ADD or suffer from the literary equivalent of Tourettes (is there such a thing?). The difference is I have / do take full responsibility for my actions and did not go complaining to other cachers, admin or raise it on the public forums that someone was behaving like a 14 year old with ADD.

 

I know smstext claims he didn’t want to name me as the abusive individual, but it was, nevertheless, plain enough for no less than three people to contact me to inform me my character was being questioned on the forums – it had not actually occurred to me he would have raised it here -- incidentally, first claiming he is only asking for advice then in the next post stating he already contacted a moderator and they had already told him what to do.

 

Another reason to watch what you say...

I had exactly this in mind in when I later apologised privately (as I have done here publicly) for the tone and content of that email.

 

My only comment for the future is to temper your emails. It is really easy to ignore people you don't want to deal with in emails if you don't feel like tempering them.

In effect I did ignore, as most of the emails stacked up while I was getting on with my life, I think this only made him more irate. As soon as I had the chance I stated he was in the wrong place and needed coordinates from the puzzle, rather than just search for a tree near a presumed view. He didn’t believe me and lodged a complaint to a moderator, who thankfully convinced him he was wrong. However, my main concern was that in less than 12 hours of the cache being published (in fact before I even knew it was published) he had logged two DNF’s claiming he (and others (in an Appeal to Authority)) were in the right place and the cache was not there. I was concerned no one else would bother even looking... I’m repeating myself; I’ve laid this out already, above.

 

...seems to me that at least of couple of people thought they had solved it such that they were searching in the same location,

As I said before: I am yet to see any evidence that anyone else has been in the least bit perturbed by either the puzzle or not finding the cache.

[+Ambrosia]

I'm horrible (HORRIBLE!) at puzzles, but I was able to figure this out in a couple minutes.

 

I have to say, that it's an adorable puzzle, the way that it's executed, and I had a lot of fun working through it. Pretty picture, too!

[+Willie Wandering]

Right Williewandering I will now correct some of your posts and tons of emails that I have received from you. Not at any stage did i send you dozens of emails, i made two posts on the cache page and sent you two emails then you replied and i sent you the co ords of where i had been.

Baring in mind we now know I took the precaution of saving your logs, rightly predicting you would eventually resort to some historical revisionism, are you absolutely certain you now want to publicly call me a liar as well?

 

Im not getting into a tit for tat

That is exactly what you are getting into, again, still. I'll dance with you one more time.

 

Ok all today you have sent me email after email offering the location co ordinates which IS NOT what I want.

I did send you an email that ended “Is there anything I can do appease you and put this to rest? I’m happy to give you the answer to the puzzle, but I’d like to give others a chance to solve it without help first. Would that help?” That was some time after you reported me (about the cache not being where you thought it should be, not sure when you reported me for my profanity), but clearly before someone had found it, and indeed you now already have the answer as of yesterday... Something doesn’t add up.

 

All I asked for when you said I was wrong was a tip as i really couldnt see the answer.

I’ve already posted, above, your log after I said you were wrong and said you needed coordinates from the puzzle. I considered that a tip – to get going with.

 

Would you like me to post here the very next email you sent? If you recall you still insisted I was wrong, that the cache was ‘probably not there’ or ‘has gone missing’. It was the same email in which you complained about a torn waterproofs etc... The email just before you reported me for the cache not being where you thought it should be.

 

It was thanks to a local cacher after I...

Lucky he/she was content to let you beat them to the cache. What a slacker!

 

Just a tip to the CO in future if someone has problems try and give them a tip or a nudge,

See my point above and your last log quoted in my first post.

 

Otherwise, excuse me if I decline to take advice from someone who clearly does not know when to stop digging their own grave.

 

Yes its a game and in the 4 months I have been doing geocaching have only ever come across one rude person who i hope learns from this mistake.

Ad hominem does nothing to further you case.

 

Maybe one day you will require my help with something? as they say what goes around comes around

I’ll take that as a resounding “no” to my offered apology and pint.

[+Willie Wandering]

The good news is that smstext has now logged this with "500th Cache!!!" and a good narrative. All followed by "A great end to the day" and "Thanks for the cache".

I’m glad he enjoyed his day... excuse my profanities again: I had a (deleted by moderator) day!

 

I have spent more time than I can spare trying to deal with one person bombarding me with emails, fretting over negative logs on my new cache, been reported to moderators twice, had my character publicly questioned, felt obliged to defend and explain myself, a sleepless night and still had it thrown back with added accusations that I am now lying... all topped off with a thinly veiled threat.

 

Who’s right or who is wrong is immaterial. Even if there was a need to lodge complaints with moderators, there was absolutely no sound reason to involve other cachers. I have dealt best I can with what has been said publicly... I have no idea what has been said about me privately. I am fairly confident my character stands up. As I have said, I don’t have the time to be involved with the local community... smstext has... there will always been that question in the back of my mind that some ‘mud’ may have stuck. There will certainly always remain a bad vibe locally, over a trifle that should have remained private.

 

I don’t say this for pity or effect. I am not the type to use, or be swayed by, arguments that turn into popularity contest. I only say this to make the point that I have found the whole incident quite horrible and unnecessary.

 

Sounds like a setup to get traffic to the cache...

Ha! I certainly wasn’t expecting a worldwide audience... and having said I’m not interested in popularity contest, it sure has been nice to receive so many nice emails.

 

Finally, finally... I really am done with this now. Sorry about the multiple post and also mixing different peoples quote... a pay off between space and clarity. Thanks you all for a fair hearing (I can’t believe anyone is really interested) and happy caching.

Edited December 8, 2009 by mtn-man

[+smstext]

yawn, grow up Neil.

[+Juan Durrer]

OH.MY.GOD!!

 

I guess we can thank people like OP and CO for insuring that geocaching doesn't go mainstream; no one in their right minds wants to be involved in an activity with people who can get worked up like this over junk in a box in the woods.

 

Despite my better judgment, I couldn't help reading this thread.

 

Now I feel kind of disgusted, with myself and the pettiness I've found here.

[+bflentje]

The good news is that smstext has now logged this with "500th Cache!!!" and a good narrative. All followed by "A great end to the day" and "Thanks for the cache".

I’m glad he enjoyed his day... excuse my profanities again: I had a (deleted by moderator) day!

 

I have spent more time than I can spare trying to deal with one person bombarding me with emails, fretting over negative logs on my new cache, been reported to moderators twice, had my character publicly questioned, felt obliged to defend and explain myself, a sleepless night and still had it thrown back with added accusations that I am now lying... all topped off with a thinly veiled threat.

 

Who’s right or who is wrong is immaterial. Even if there was a need to lodge complaints with moderators, there was absolutely no sound reason to involve other cachers. I have dealt best I can with what has been said publicly... I have no idea what has been said about me privately. I am fairly confident my character stands up. As I have said, I don’t have the time to be involved with the local community... smstext has... there will always been that question in the back of my mind that some ‘mud’ may have stuck. There will certainly always remain a bad vibe locally, over a trifle that should have remained private.

 

I don’t say this for pity or effect. I am not the type to use, or be swayed by, arguments that turn into popularity contest. I only say this to make the point that I have found the whole incident quite horrible and unnecessary.

 

Sounds like a setup to get traffic to the cache...

Ha! I certainly wasn’t expecting a worldwide audience... and having said I’m not interested in popularity contest, it sure has been nice to receive so many nice emails.

 

Finally, finally... I really am done with this now. Sorry about the multiple post and also mixing different peoples quote... a pay off between space and clarity. Thanks you all for a fair hearing (I can’t believe anyone is really interested) and happy caching.

 

yawn, grow up Neil.

 

Jeepers. Both of you, take to email. And to think that only Americans are childish..

Edited December 8, 2009 by mtn-man

[+CYBret]

There was no need to make this personal IN the forums. If you can't get along then either ignore each other or if the abuse has gone through the geocaching.com email system then feel free to report it to abuse@. Either way, it doesn't belong here.

 

Closing this thread.