Boring Cache Locations

[+off-camber]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

[+Unkle Fester]

I don't know, its kind of fun to chuck a micro out the car window and see howclose you can get the coordinates.. Just kidding.

 

I'm on the fence here. I don't mind the lack of view or interest, a lot of the time I cache with my kids and we turn it into a grand adventure where the cache is the central plot.

[+runawaybunny]

Actually, I love these. Fantastic views and sprawling vistas are wonderful, but they tend to draw people to them even without geocaching. A geocache in the middle of nowhere with nothing to bring you there but the cache has a serene quality about it that I really appreciate. Probably just me.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

A walk in the woods isn't enough? Trails through trees and shrubs can be very peaceful, uneventful yes, but calming. Not to mention beautiful.

 

Not every area of the country, state, town have spectacular views like they do in your area. Some towns don't even have green ways or trails through the woods so you make do with what you have.

[+The Cheeseheads]

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

Everyone is different. You may not have any interest in a cache like this, but for someone else who does not have the desire or ability to trek up a mountain or through the woods, a cache like this would be just what they would enjoy.

[+off-camber]

I guess I should clarify....I am talking more about the cache that's way off a trail or maybe there isn't even a trail system. However as stated to each his/her own...and I do avoid these when I can but usual the description doesn't include....."this cache is in the middle of nowhere...nothing to see but trees." so its not until I a slogging through mud, and smacking misquotes that I realize my mistake.

 

Again I can concede that some may enjoy this,....as I said not complaining just hope maybe some may give more thought to location.

[+CanUK_TeamFitz]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

 

I know what you mean.. I'm sick of seeing woods and forests, there should totally be more LPCs and garbage dump caches... because you can't deny other people garbage is definitely unique and interesting...

 

[+ecanderson]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

Wouldn't be my first choice, but a walk in the woods is better than no walk in the woods, I guess. You are, after all, describing a location that is an improvement over the vast majority of the caches I've found. So if my experience is any guide, you're also describing something better than the majority of caches. I'm always just happy to wipe the little green (or yellow) icon off the map. Edited September 23, 2009 by ecanderson

[+Stargazer22]

A really remote cache with no trail and lots of bushwhacking involved to get to the middle of nowhere sounds like my idea of a fun day. Especially if it involves slogging knee deep through a swamp infested with gators and venemous snakes.

I enjoy remote locations. Some don't. More serenity for me when I get there!

[+texasgrillchef]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

 

Keep in mind that for some geocaching is about where the cache takes them. For others (such as myself) geocaching is about the challenge of finding the cache.

 

Now from your description it doesn't sound to me much like a challenging hide as far as finding the container, either. Unless they wanted to make it easier for some.

 

Now as far as beauty goes of nature, the enviroment or the surroundings. Remember one things. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you found to be a little drab & uninteresting to you someone else might find very interesting. I will give you an example. I am not all that fond of sandy beaches and coast lines. I love mountains & deep dense forests. So a mountain cache stuck in the deep forest is more interesting to me than a cache located on a sand dune near the coast. I also find caches near interesting architecture to be very nice. My wife on the other hand has no interest in architecture. So she finds those caches boring, unless the CO made the cache challenging to find.

 

Thats the one nice thing about geocaching. There are caches for all styles & types of goecachers. Caches in all types of enviroments. In urban settings & in the wilderness, even under water.

 

However... I will admit. geocaching.com needs some improvement on making it easier to find those caches a person would be more interested in going to find.

 

TGC

[+Castle Mischief]

Somehow I'm always able to determine en-route to a cache if it's not one that I want to hunt for. I can't ever recall making that determination after I've found the cache.

 

If you don't like where the cache is leading you, stop looking.

[+ladyrich007]

In some parts of the country there's very little that is interesting to look. here in west Tx, where I am your lucky if there is a tree. So if we had to stick to hiding in interesting places we would have very few caches around here.

 

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

 

Keep in mind that for some geocaching is about where the cache takes them. For others (such as myself) geocaching is about the challenge of finding the cache.

 

Now from your description it doesn't sound to me much like a challenging hide as far as finding the container, either. Unless they wanted to make it easier for some.

 

Now as far as beauty goes of nature, the enviroment or the surroundings. Remember one things. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What you found to be a little drab & uninteresting to you someone else might find very interesting. I will give you an example. I am not all that fond of sandy beaches and coast lines. I love mountains & deep dense forests. So a mountain cache stuck in the deep forest is more interesting to me than a cache located on a sand dune near the coast. I also find caches near interesting architecture to be very nice. My wife on the other hand has no interest in architecture. So she finds those caches boring, unless the CO made the cache challenging to find.

 

Thats the one nice thing about geocaching. There are caches for all styles & types of goecachers. Caches in all types of enviroments. In urban settings & in the wilderness, even under water.

 

However... I will admit. geocaching.com needs some improvement on making it easier to find those caches a person would be more interested in going to find.

 

TGC

[Mushtang]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

Nothing except that there's a cache there.

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

Cool. You're hiding caches that have something else beyond the cache. Surely you don't think your way is THE right way do you?

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

Are you looking for some point other than, "To find the geocache"?

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

And I'm hoping someone reads my post shortly after reading yours and understands that it's perfectly fine with a lot of cachers if a cache exists that doesn't have anything else to offer. A great view, for instance, is a nice bonus, but that's not MY reason for caching and I know for a fact it's not the reason a great deal of other people cache. So if I see a cache hidden in the middle of a forest with nothing else around, I'm happy.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I would rather 10 deep woods UPOS taking me 5 days vs 150 LPC in the same time frame.

I love wetlands and wile another person my find nothing of interest (other than a cache) in them I'll find nothing but interest.

 

The kind of cache you describe is the kind that lead me past what is now my favorite feral apple tree, a small part of me hopes the cache goes away so no one else finds the tree.

 

 

Somehow I'm always able to determine en-route to a cache if it's not one that I want to hunt for. I can't ever recall making that determination after I've found the cache.

 

If you don't like where the cache is leading you, stop looking.

Wisdom.

[Skippermark]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

I think the majority of woods caches are like this. It's not that they're in boring places, but there's not always that much exciting going on in the woods. There are some great views in the woods, but along the mile long walk to the scenic vista, there's not always much to see.

 

I enjoy finding caches and am happy finding ones with views and ones without a view.

[+Team Cotati]

What? You want to kill the entire game?

 

"to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?"

 

But then, you didn't mention LPC's and bus stop benches. The game lives on!!

Edited September 23, 2009 by Team Cotati

[+TheChagnons]

Personally, I don't mind if a cache is in the 'middle of nowhere'. It still got my family off the couch, enjoying nature and each other's company, which is why we love geocaching so much. . However, it does irk me when a cache is placed WAY off of a trail that was not noted on the cache page, and I have to bushwack through thorns, weeds, brush, etc. with my poor 4 year old...

[+Vater_Araignee]

Personally, I don't mind if a cache is in the 'middle of nowhere'. It still got my family off the couch, enjoying nature and each other's company, which is why we love geocaching so much. . However, it does irk me when a cache is placed WAY off of a trail that was not noted on the cache page, and I have to bushwack through thorns, weeds, brush, etc. with my poor 4 year old...

Why are you required to bushwack with you 4 year old?

[+tozainamboku]

 

Wow somebody who doesn't like rocky road. I thought only people who don't like vanilla got to complain.

[+Vater_Araignee]

 

Wow somebody who doesn't like rocky road. I thought only people who don't like vanilla got to complain.

[+FunnyNose]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

 

I would rather go to a boring location than an area filled with empty beer cans and human defecation.

 

Why someone thought that was a good location I'll never know.

Edited September 23, 2009 by FunnyNose

[+Team A & M]

In our city, there just aren't any places left to put a cache, so everyone is picking places that are what some would call "boring". Our city, Oshkosh, WI, is very historic, and even all of the historic sites here are taken.

 

We don't mind the "boring" cache sites, we enjoy them all.

[+ecanderson]

In our city, there just aren't any places left to put a cache, so everyone is picking places that are what some would call "boring".

"aren't any spaces", yet no caches at all out on Shorewood Drive? You need to loosen those folks up a bit!

[+off-camber]

As I said if you like that sorta thing great.....maybe I should have said be more descriptive in you cache description....maybe info on why you put this cache where it is....If you found that spot peaceful then say that...I don't mind the hike its just nice to have a destination more than just getting to the cache....I'd rather do a 5 mile hike to see a waterfall than 1 mile into an empty field...I like urban caches as well, a nice park, unique building etc...all make it worth the effort.

 

And I'll agree I don't like the areas full of trash either....

 

Anyone else find a used condom whole searching for that elusive micro....that does tend to suck the fun out of it....no pun intended...ok just a little pun...

[GOF and Bacall]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting.

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

I guess that my hope is someone would read this and maybe think twice about dropping a cache in the woods just because there isn't one there already....

 

Not going to read the thread until after my initial reply. What you call a boring woods I call a slice of solitude. Some peace and quiet in a world that bombards us constantly with cell phones, radios, tvs, newspapers, crossing signs and directional arrows. Next time find a quiet spot, sit back and relax. Take some time to meditate and enjoy those trees and shrubs. Sit still and quite and the wildlife will go on with their daily business around you.

 

I'll refrain from telling you "If you don't like 'em don't hunt 'em." I guess I wont.

[+Wogus!]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

For me, the hike to someplace remote is an end unto itself. Hiking led me to geocaching, geocaching didn't lead me to hiking. But that might be an interesting point in and of itself. If you're more of an urban cacher, I can see how long hikes might not be your thing. I primarily do long hikes anyway (so it very much IS my thing) so of course I'm going to prefer caches that fit that particular bill. I plan hiking trips and then check for caches that overlap my trip, not vice versa. I'm an "off the beaten path" sorta guy when it comes to this but that's me. So yeah, if you're not into long hikes then you should probably avoid caches that look like they're going to require it. I've hiked to some pretty wild locations that absolutely put me in my element that I'm sure many other people would find deathly boring. Different strokes and all that, right? It's all about choosing your cache-hunts ahead of time in my opinion.

[+bittsen]

A great place for a boring cache.

 

[+ecanderson]

A great place for a boring cache.

 

You certainly have to admire these guys for their approach to "truth in advertising"

[+Castle Mischief]

Not just boring, but very boring!

 

A very Boring cache

Edited September 23, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[knowschad]

A great place for a boring cache.

 

 

 

Dang! You beat me to it! GC15N19, Boring Town Center

[+bittsen]

Dang! You beat me to it! GC15N19, Boring Town Center

 

I am very familiar with Boring, Oregon. I used to spend a LOT of time there. ~wink - nudge~

[+Sagefox]

A great place for a boring cache.

 

 

Yes indeed! Remote, Oregon locations are great for geocaching.

 

 

Edit: smaller photo.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Team Sagefox

[+okie-wan]

I feel sorry for the poor city dwellers with no vehicles. Imagine renting a car or riding a subway to get out in the country just a little way.

[+off-camber]

A great place for a boring cache.

 

 

Yes indeed! Remote, Oregon locations are great for geocaching.

 

 

Edit: smaller photo.

 

Now those places would be interesting...

[Clan Riffster]

A walk in the woods isn't enough?

That's my thought as well. Being a closet tree hugger, I thoroughly enjoy any excuse I have to wander aimlessly through the wilderness. While scenic vistas are great, my love of woodsy places makes just about any forest "scenic" to me. I would much rather find a cache plopped out at the base of a tree way back in the woods, than a cache stuck in Burger King shrubbery.

[+Wogus!]

I would much rather find a cache plopped out at the base of a tree way back in the woods, than a cache stuck in Burger King shrubbery.

Boy oh boy do I have a cache for you.

Wanna guess where, in particular, this bad boy was hidden? Go ahead! Never in a million years would you fig...

 

Oh, wait...

[Clan Riffster]

Boy oh boy do I have a cache for you.

<shudders...>

[knowschad]

Boy oh boy do I have a cache for you.

<shudders...>

 

 

Nipple-deep in burgers. Just your thing!

[+zircon101]

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

 

I tend to agree with you off-camper. Also my annoyance level increases with these type of caches when:

 

(1) There are few or no helpful clues given in the cache description or logs. If the cache is located near a well-known trail, then the cache description should include that information.

 

(2) A small container size is used and/or gps signals are known to be poor in the search area. What's the point of putting a nano in a pristine site ? When these containers are used it is almost certain that the site will get trampled down; and that threatens the sport.

 

(3) The cache owner does not disclose hazards associated with the search area.

 

(4) The cache owner has no real interest in maintaining the cache.

 

When I encounter one of these sites I also tend to classify the owner personality into one of three types:

 

(1) Dumb-blond types: Hey let's place a cache near where the kids buried our pet canary.

(2) Hey-Dude types: Hey, that hidden (drop-off, grizzly bear trail, slippery slope, etc) is cool.

(3) Smart-a** types: I calculated satellite orbits and magnetic anomalies and they will NEVER get a signal in this area.

[+briansnat]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

If its a nice walk, then no. I've been known to place a few caches like this and the point is more bringing people on a nice walk in a pretty area, rather than the actual cache location.

Edited September 23, 2009 by briansnat

[+Team Cotati]

I feel sorry for the poor city dwellers with no vehicles. Imagine renting a car or riding a subway to get out in the country just a little way.

 

I know that it might be difficult to believe but I have actually met people who enjoy city life.

 

A sad condition I know.

[+TheChagnons]

Personally, I don't mind if a cache is in the 'middle of nowhere'. It still got my family off the couch, enjoying nature and each other's company, which is why we love geocaching so much. . However, it does irk me when a cache is placed WAY off of a trail that was not noted on the cache page, and I have to bushwack through thorns, weeds, brush, etc. with my poor 4 year old...

Why are you required to bushwack with you 4 year old?

 

Because I can't leave her back on the trail....she's 4!!

[+Team Cotati]

"I try to put my cache's in places that bring people somewhere unique, whether its a great view or interesting rock formation or maybe just the journey there is interesting."

 

Yeah, that's what I thought you said.

[+Mudfrog]

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

 

I tend to agree with you off-camper. Also my annoyance level increases with these type of caches when:

 

(1) There are few or no helpful clues given in the cache description or logs. If the cache is located near a well-known trail, then the cache description should include that information.

 

(2) A small container size is used and/or gps signals are known to be poor in the search area. What's the point of putting a nano in a pristine site ? When these containers are used it is almost certain that the site will get trampled down; and that threatens the sport.

 

(3) The cache owner does not disclose hazards associated with the search area.

 

(4) The cache owner has no real interest in maintaining the cache.

 

When I encounter one of these sites I also tend to classify the owner personality into one of three types:

 

(1) Dumb-blond types: Hey let's place a cache near where the kids buried our pet canary.

(2) Hey-Dude types: Hey, that hidden (drop-off, grizzly bear trail, slippery slope, etc) is cool.

(3) Smart-a** types: I calculated satellite orbits and magnetic anomalies and they will NEVER get a signal in this area.

 

The only item you mentioned that i do agree with is #4. Cache maintenance is something that is required and expected.

 

The other three are up to the cache owner. It's up to the CO whether he or she chooses to give hints or clues. It's also up to him in what size cache and what container he chooses to use. And, you guessed it, it's up to him whether he wants to disclose hazards that may be associated with the cache hide. In otherwords, it's up to the cache owner as to whether they choose to hold a person's hand or not.

 

As far as the OP, i'm not sure what to say. The cache scenario he mentions sounds mighty fine to me... I do have to say however, that i have good friends who prefer LPCs, guardrail, and other park and grab type caches much more than they like woodsie type caches. Of course there's nothing wrong with this at all,,, different strokes for different folks. The thing is, they don't go around complaining about cache types that they don't care for!

[+rvjn]

 

I don't understand why people drop a cache on a trail to nowhere with nothing to look at but trees and shrubs. I know they may have had some personal reason for putting it there but if that is lost on me and others whats the point.

 

 

I tend to agree with you off-camper. Also my annoyance level increases with these type of caches when:

 

(1) There are few or no helpful clues given in the cache description or logs. If the cache is located near a well-known trail, then the cache description should include that information.

 

(2) A small container size is used and/or gps signals are known to be poor in the search area. What's the point of putting a nano in a pristine site ? When these containers are used it is almost certain that the site will get trampled down; and that threatens the sport.

 

(3) The cache owner does not disclose hazards associated with the search area.

 

(4) The cache owner has no real interest in maintaining the cache.

 

When I encounter one of these sites I also tend to classify the owner personality into one of three types:

 

(1) Dumb-blond types: Hey let's place a cache near where the kids buried our pet canary.

(2) Hey-Dude types: Hey, that hidden (drop-off, grizzly bear trail, slippery slope, etc) is cool.

(3) Smart-a** types: I calculated satellite orbits and magnetic anomalies and they will NEVER get a signal in this area.

 

The only item you mentioned that i do agree with is #4. Cache maintenance is something that is required and expected.

 

The other three are up to the cache owner. It's up to the CO whether he or she chooses to give hints or clues. It's also up to him in what size cache and what container he chooses to use. And, you guessed it, it's up to him whether he wants to disclose hazards that may be associated with the cache hide. In otherwords, it's up to the cache owner as to whether they choose to hold a person's hand or not.

 

As far as the OP, i'm not sure what to say. The cache scenario he mentions sounds mighty fine to me... I do have to say however, that i have good friends who prefer LPCs, guardrail, and other park and grab type caches much more than they like woodsie type caches. Of course there's nothing wrong with this at all,,, different strokes for different folks. The thing is, they don't go around complaining about cache types that they don't care for!

[+goosefraba1]

A really remote cache with no trail and lots of bushwhacking involved to get to the middle of nowhere sounds like my idea of a fun day. Especially if it involves slogging knee deep through a swamp infested with gators and venemous snakes.

I enjoy remote locations. Some don't. More serenity for me when I get there!

 

serenity NOW! serenity NOW! Sorry... couldn't help but think of the seinfield episode.

[+briansnat]

A really remote cache with no trail and lots of bushwhacking involved to get to the middle of nowhere sounds like my idea of a fun day. Especially if it involves slogging knee deep through a swamp infested with gators and venemous snakes.

I enjoy remote locations. Some don't. More serenity for me when I get there!

 

One of my favorite caches is called "Middle'aNowhere" The CO placed it in a spot as far from any road as is possible in northern NJ. Getting there is quite an adventure. You need to crawl through mountain laurel, cross a beaver pond and a few streams and bushwack through some beautiful terrain.

 

The cache itself is in a fairly non-descript spot in the woods, but what an adventure. Tons of fun to me and to everyone else who found it judging from the logs.

[knowschad]

This isn't a rant or really even a complaint....but does anyone else find it annoying to trudge out to the middle of no where to find a cache just buried under some sticks with nothing particularly interesting about the location?

 

 

I guess I'd need to know how you define "middle of nowhere". "nothing particularly interesting about the location" probably does a pretty good job of it, but that's still rather subjective. I've found caches way out in a grass field in Nebraska, miles from any particularily distinguishing landmark, that I found interesting simply by the fact that it was in the middle of absolutely nowhere... miles and miles and miles of grassland, not a single convenience store in sight. Many would probably consider that boring, but I thought it was exciting.

[Clan Riffster]

Especially if it involves slogging knee deep through a swamp infested with gators and venemous snakes.

Whoo Hoo!! Jerry, you hit the nail right on the head.

BTW, when are we gonna hide another cache down Salt Springs?

The 12' gator missed me last time.

[+succotash]

Especially if it involves slogging knee deep through a swamp infested with gators and venemous snakes.

Whoo Hoo!! Jerry, you hit the nail right on the head.

BTW, when are we gonna hide another cache down Salt Springs?

The 12' gator missed me last time.

 

After seeing the original post from Stargazer22 I checked to see if he had a shared Favorites bookmark. No such luck! But I see ClanRiffster has one... woo hoo is right! Even though we live a couple of states away that looks like a Favorites list worth reviewing!