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My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :D

 

Nice attempt at a cheap shot but I assure you that I can imagine what it would be like to have miniscule notations of my caches. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest because........wait for it........I'm not a whiner.

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I've got some caches that usually get pretty good logs, some of them very verbose logs. I enjoy those. Then along comes a cacher who writes "sl" for every one of my caches he finds. That's fine by me. He found it, made note that he signed the log, and that's A-OK. Anything written beyond that is gravy.

 

Lighten up, enjoy the reports of found caches, and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

I'm not the greatest log writer. Oh, well. That's just who I am. I tend to be matter of fact.

But, I do wonder at the cachers who go for the caches with spectacular views in the rain and fog. Oh, well. the best I can do is to try to show them the view. The cache is there to be found. Make whatever you want of the view. Sign log. Get smiley. That's what it's all about. So far, I've only deleted log of 'cachers' who have not found the cache or signed the log. Spoilers would probably get deleted, if the finder does not change it. But, so far, they have been understanding.

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My solution was to hide more caches that "power cachers" avoid.

Kit, I like the way you think.

If you hide a P&G, expect P&G type logs.

If you hide something that requires actual effort to get to, you will likely be rewarded with longer logs.

It's been working for me for years.

I agree with both of you, but what frustrates me (and what spurred me to write the post that Kit linked to) is when you have a fantastic cache, one of the best in your area, and you get the "Found with Lunkhead. TFTC". :D

My question is....

 

So what?

 

You probably won't understand until you've put some caches out yourself. Particularily caches that you've gone to some length to hide. Please avoid snarkiness until then. :anicute:

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My two cents worth.

I find many of my "short logs" are the partner of the avid cacher and are just along for the ride? One goes into detail and the "found with so and so"

Even so a log is a log even if it is just a " :-) "

 

Well, I will admit that a :-) beats not logging online, but only by a micron.

 

Verbose partner or not, I'd still like to see what YOU thought, too.

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I seem to be getting a number of poor logs e.g. Found with XYZ, or Found It! I've decided to delete these but do send a polite message saying why it's been deleted and they're welcome to resubmit with a log that includes interest.

 

I'm sure that this will have been mentioned before on the forum, but as the geocaching season here in the UK is now in full swing with a number of new users it cannot harm for them to know this....

 

Unh.

 

You have a Geocaching season in the UK? Here in Michigan our winters are colder and have more snow and our summers are hotter than the most places in the UK. We cache all year here. Now we do get our share of lame logs but we also get a lot of good logs that report the challenges created by the less than ideal weather.

 

Start a movement in the UK. The slogan could be "All weather caching leads to better logs". Its as realistic as expecting log quality to improve because of your practice of deleting lame logs.

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My question is....

 

So what?

 

You probably won't understand until you've put some caches out yourself. Particularily caches that you've gone to some length to hide. Please avoid snarkiness until then. :D

 

I will be as snarky as I want. Why? Because.......wait for it.......I am ME~

 

The bottom line is I am an adult and think like an adult and wouldn't get my itty bitty feelings hurt because everyone doesn't pat me on the back for the wonderful cache I placed.

It's there for people to find. I would never place something for the general population to find, just to get an ego boost.

 

Anyone who is insulted by a few short "logs" is a little sensitive when you consider........wait for it........the BIG picture.

 

Come on....grow a thicker skin.

Edited by bittsen
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Or drop the ego and control issues and use this as a learning experience.

 

If you insist on contacting those who write brief logs then ask them "What could I have done to make this cache interesting enough that you would want to write about it? Your suggestions will help me place more interesting hides in the future."

 

You might learn something. :D

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My question is....

 

So what?

 

You probably won't understand until you've put some caches out yourself. Particularily caches that you've gone to some length to hide. Please avoid snarkiness until then. :D

 

I will be as snarky as I want. Why? Because.......wait for it.......I am ME~

 

The bottom line is I am an adult and think like an adult and wouldn't get my itty bitty feelings hurt because everyone doesn't pat me on the back for the wonderful cache I placed.

It's there for people to find. I would never place something for the general population to find, just to get an ego boost.

 

Anyone who is insulted by a few short "logs" is a little sensitive when you consider........wait for it........the BIG picture.

 

Come on....grow a thicker skin.

 

Yes, we can all see that you think like an adult. Thanks for demonstrating the fact for the entire forum. That was a very mature reply.

 

Look, I deliberately tried to make my response not "snarky". I was only attempting to point out that your point of view may change once you've put several hundred dollars and many hours of thought and action into placing some hides. I have hidden nearly 100 of them. Yes, I like to get something more than a "me me me" response to my efforts.

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The bottom line is I am an adult and think like an adult and wouldn't get my itty bitty feelings hurt because everyone doesn't pat me on the back for the wonderful cache I placed.

 

That's not the issue... I generally go through a lot of trouble on the few caches I have placed. Placing caches is BY FAR more fun and fulfilling then finding them. I get a little excited when I get an email saying that someone found my cache.

 

It's VERY annoying when I go to read the log and it's "#100/293848372 Today. TFTH" I would never delete their log, but it is extremely annoying. I agree with others in this thread: The more difficult, the better the logs. You get out of this what you put into it.

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My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :D

 

9Key,

 

Don't feed the troll! After 85 park and grabs, no hides, and nearly every one of his posts being "trollish," you shouldn't waste your time with him/her.

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But, I do wonder at the cachers who go for the caches with spectacular views in the rain and fog. Oh, well. the best I can do is to try to show them the view. The cache is there to be found. Make whatever you want of the view. Sign log. Get smiley. That's what it's all about.
Sometimes, it isn't about the numbers. Sometimes, it isn't really even about cache.

 

During a road trip with my wife and several of our friends, I logged a virtual cache that featured a great view. The day we were there, it was rainy and foggy. Sure, it might have been nicer to see the view on a clear day, but we weren't there on a clear day, and rearranging our schedules was not an option. So we enjoyed the location and we enjoyed the view we had.

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...I thought you supported deleting logs. Or is it only if the cache is found for the wrong reason?...

 

You will notice in that other thread that I support a cache owners ability to make a request and our ability to be kind folks and honor that request when it's not really any skin off our back. Doesn't mean I agree with the request or think that they should be deleting the logs. Had that other owner come and ask. "Should I delete a log because they found my cache as a stepping stone to a challenge?"

 

My answer would be about what it is here. "Why the heck would you want to do that when they found your cache and enjoyed it enough to log it?" I might suggest that they suggest that finders not mention the evil challenge when logging and everone would be happy.

 

Issues often have several faucets but any one thread normally only covers one of them.

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...Logged from my phone using the Geocache Navigator by Trimble. Nice short walk. easy find....

 

That first bit is probably Trimble SPAM. I get emails every now and then that say. "Sent from my blackberry/iphone/hot phone of the moment". I find it ironic that professional companies set their users up to look like borish amateurs.

 

Mostly it makes me want to avoid the equipment lest I tag everone with SPAM.

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My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :D

 

9Key,

 

Don't feed the troll! After 85 park and grabs, no hides, and nearly every one of his posts being "trollish," you shouldn't waste your time with him/her.

 

So because I have only 85 finds and no hides, I am not good enough to have an opinion?

 

What an elitist you are. ( I would use the proper term but this is a well moderated forum. )

 

You guys are funny sometimes.

 

I can't believe I'm not good enough because I don't have 100 hides.

 

WOW, simply....WOW

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Hear hear!

 

There are so many "No Redeeming Value" caches, and while they're useful for a numbers run and a part of the game, at the same time they're going to get the lame log that's deserved for a lame cache :anicute:

 

That said, if the cache or location is interesting, or something interesting happened while finding the cache (e.g. explaining the sport to law enforcement), I'll leave an interesting log. Quid pro quo. I recently spent a day in Manchester, NH caching, and the vast majority of the finds were in guard rails...unless they were somehow otherwise interesting, they got the "Found it, TFTC" or some such that was sitting in my copy paste buffer. :D

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My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :D

 

9Key,

 

Don't feed the troll! After 85 park and grabs, no hides, and nearly every one of his posts being "trollish," you shouldn't waste your time with him/her.

 

So because I have only 85 finds and no hides, I am not good enough to have an opinion?

 

What an elitist you are. ( I would use the proper term but this is a well moderated forum. )

 

You guys are funny sometimes.

 

I can't believe I'm not good enough because I don't have 100 hides.

 

WOW, simply....WOW

 

Once again, responding like the mature adult that you are. Glad to see you taking the high road, bittsen.

 

What they (we) are saying... ALL we are saying (aside from comments on your general attitude) is that you do not yet have the neccessary experience to comment knowledgably on what it is like to receive logs.

 

But instead of keeping quiet and listening to experience greater than your own, you insist on not only posting your naive opinion on it, but doing so in a biting and sarcastic tone.

 

PS: Not only do you not have 100 hides, but you don't have one hide... not even a lame one... to base your opinions on. So, no... you cannot speak to a cache hider's experience. Sorry.

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...Logged from my phone using the Geocache Navigator by Trimble. Nice short walk. easy find....

That first bit is probably Trimble SPAM. I get emails every now and then that say. "Sent from my blackberry/iphone/hot phone of the moment". I find it ironic that professional companies set their users up to look like borish amateurs.

 

Mostly it makes me want to avoid the equipment lest I tag everone with SPAM.

My response is completely OT for the OP, but to RK, unfortunately, this is the way RIM sets up all BlackBerry email by default. Most user immediately delete that text. But some have no idea how to do delete it. :0

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My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :D

 

9Key,

 

Don't feed the troll! After 85 park and grabs, no hides, and nearly every one of his posts being "trollish," you shouldn't waste your time with him/her.

 

So because I have only 85 finds and no hides, I am not good enough to have an opinion?

 

What an elitist you are. ( I would use the proper term but this is a well moderated forum. )

 

You guys are funny sometimes.

 

I can't believe I'm not good enough because I don't have 100 hides.

 

WOW, simply....WOW

 

Once again, responding like the mature adult that you are. Glad to see you taking the high road, bittsen.

 

What they (we) are saying... ALL we are saying (aside from comments on your general attitude) is that you do not yet have the neccessary experience to comment knowledgably on what it is like to receive logs.

 

But instead of keeping quiet and listening to experience greater than your own, you insist on not only posting your naive opinion on it, but doing so in a biting and sarcastic tone.

 

PS: Not only do you not have 100 hides, but you don't have one hide... not even a lame one... to base your opinions on. So, no... you cannot speak to a cache hider's experience. Sorry.

 

First off, I don't have to have a "Cache Hide" to know the pride of work well done. I know work well done when I do it. It is that experience that I use to make my judgment.

When I create a webpage and get zero feedback on it, I don't worry about it. When I create a piece of artwork and get little feedback, I don't whine or cry. Sometimes I smply get a "nice" or a "good job" and it doesn't hurt my feelings. Why would a cache hide be any different?

 

My point is that the comments on the website are not the core of the game. Signing the logsheet is.

 

And, my opinion as to the OT is the favored one. My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough.

 

If you can find flaws in my logic, then great. Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses by people who would judge others before they judge themselves.

 

Have a good day.

 

:anicute:

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"My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough."

 

We are in agreement.

 

"Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses "

 

Attacks on YOU? :D Uh, not quite the way most of us are seeing this, Bittsen.

 

"If you can find flaws in my logic, then great"

 

We have... you have no hides, yet continue to tell us how we, that have, should feel about the logs we receive. That is flawed logic.

 

See... look at it this way. You invite some friends over for dinner (or maybe not friends, but somebody, anyway) You spend all day fixing the very best meal that you know how to fix. You spend what you can to get the best ingredients, and maybe even more. You really go out of your way to make an extrordinary meal for these folks.

 

Some of your guests take some time to slowly taste and savor and pay attention to the details. They notice the seasonings, the contrasts, the unexpected. They thank you for the wonderful meal.

 

Others put their face to the plate and like gluttons, scarf the whole thing up like starving animals, only thankful that they will soon be able to sit back and belch. They say, "well, gotta run!"

 

Get my drift? No... I'm sure you don't, and probably never will, but I hope that my words are not wasted on everyone that reads them.

Edited by knowschad
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"My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough."

 

We are in agreement.

 

"Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses "

 

Attacks on YOU? :):D:D Uh, not quite the way most of us are seeing this, Bittsen.

 

"If you can find flaws in my logic, then great"

 

We have... you have no hides, yet continue to tell us how we, that have, should feel about the logs we receive. That is flawed logic.

 

See... look at it this way. You invite some friends over for dinner (or maybe not friends, but somebody, anyway) You spend all day fixing the very best meal that you know how to fix. You spend what you can to get the best ingredients, and maybe even more. You really go out of your way to make an extrordinary meal for these folks.

 

Some of your guests take some time to slowly taste and savor and pay attention to the details. They notice the seasonings, the contrasts, the unexpected. They thank you for the wonderful meal. :D

 

Others put their face to the plate and like gluttons, scarf the whole thing up like starving animals, only thankful that they will soon be able to sit back and belch. They say, "well, gotta run!" :anicute:

 

Get my drift? No... I'm sure you don't, and probably never will, but I hope that my words are not wasted on everyone that reads them.

 

If my guests acted as you state, I would have appreciated their company. I invited them with no pretext that they criticize the meal or spend a fixed amount of time at my house.

I have had friends and family for dinner on many occasions, whether a BBQ or a full blown thanksgiving dinner, so I know what I am talking about. Or am I disqualified because I haven't had enough dinner parties?

 

My opinion won't change. Complaining because people don't love your cache enough is exactly what GC got rid of by getting rid of ALRs.

 

Now, if you want to follow me around to more topics and criticize how I am not qualified to have an pinion, just let me know and I will give you a list of some other forums I may post at.

Translation, this is not the first time you have decided you were better than me. I assure you, I am just fine.

 

Have a nice evening.

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"My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough."

 

We are in agreement.

 

"Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses "

 

Attacks on YOU? :):D:D Uh, not quite the way most of us are seeing this, Bittsen.

 

"If you can find flaws in my logic, then great"

 

We have... you have no hides, yet continue to tell us how we, that have, should feel about the logs we receive. That is flawed logic.

 

See... look at it this way. You invite some friends over for dinner (or maybe not friends, but somebody, anyway) You spend all day fixing the very best meal that you know how to fix. You spend what you can to get the best ingredients, and maybe even more. You really go out of your way to make an extrordinary meal for these folks.

 

Some of your guests take some time to slowly taste and savor and pay attention to the details. They notice the seasonings, the contrasts, the unexpected. They thank you for the wonderful meal. :D

 

Others put their face to the plate and like gluttons, scarf the whole thing up like starving animals, only thankful that they will soon be able to sit back and belch. They say, "well, gotta run!" :anicute:

 

Get my drift? No... I'm sure you don't, and probably never will, but I hope that my words are not wasted on everyone that reads them.

 

If my guests acted as you state, I would have appreciated their company. I invited them with no pretext that they criticize the meal or spend a fixed amount of time at my house.

I have had friends and family for dinner on many occasions, whether a BBQ or a full blown thanksgiving dinner, so I know what I am talking about. Or am I disqualified because I haven't had enough dinner parties?

 

My opinion won't change. Complaining because people don't love your cache enough is exactly what GC got rid of by getting rid of ALRs.

 

Now, if you want to follow me around to more topics and criticize how I am not qualified to have an pinion, just let me know and I will give you a list of some other forums I may post at.

Translation, this is not the first time you have decided you were better than me. I assure you, I am just fine.

 

Have a nice evening.

Bittsen,

stop wasting your fingers typing replies. These folks attacking YOUR opinion and thoughts are just trying to get a rise out of you.

Heck, I feel the same way as you. But with my 8 hides, these folks would see it as the same thing as not having any hides.

Honestly, I read the logs when it comes into my email box and delete as soon as I've read it. It makes no difference to me whether the log contains 1 word or 100 words, as long as there is no spoiler and of course no one is berating me.

Its all about someone having the enjoyment of finding a cache. The log is a geocaching.com requirement.

The game is about finding something, not writing down everything associated with finding the cache.

 

So RELAX, and leave it alone.

 

And I find it funny that the OP has remained oddly silent through this.

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Bittsen,

stop wasting your fingers typing replies. These folks attacking YOUR opinion and thoughts are just trying to get a rise out of you.

Heck, I feel the same way as you. But with my 8 hides, these folks would see it as the same thing as not having any hides.

Honestly, I read the logs when it comes into my email box and delete as soon as I've read it. It makes no difference to me whether the log contains 1 word or 100 words, as long as there is no spoiler and of course no one is berating me.

Its all about someone having the enjoyment of finding a cache. The log is a geocaching.com requirement.

The game is about finding something, not writing down everything associated with finding the cache.

 

So RELAX, and leave it alone.

 

And I find it funny that the OP has remained oddly silent through this.

 

I am very surprised that you would take the stance that you did, butta. Looks like you have some hides, and from the couple that I looked at, they seem to be good hides that get some good responses. Bittsen is not being picked on here. Anything he's getting, he asked for first, and has gotten back marshmallows for stones.

 

Maybe you really truely do not care about what you get back in the form of a log for your hides, but if that is true, then you are in the minority. There is nothing wrong with that, but please do not minimize those of us that like a little thanks for our work. We're not asking to have our feet, or any other part of our anatomy kissed... we are only asking for a little thanks.

 

And aside from the OP, we do NOT advocate deleting any logs that do not thank us.

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"My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough."

 

We are in agreement.

 

"Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses "

 

Attacks on YOU? :D:D:D Uh, not quite the way most of us are seeing this, Bittsen.

 

"If you can find flaws in my logic, then great"

 

We have... you have no hides, yet continue to tell us how we, that have, should feel about the logs we receive. That is flawed logic.

 

See... look at it this way. You invite some friends over for dinner (or maybe not friends, but somebody, anyway) You spend all day fixing the very best meal that you know how to fix. You spend what you can to get the best ingredients, and maybe even more. You really go out of your way to make an extrordinary meal for these folks.

 

Some of your guests take some time to slowly taste and savor and pay attention to the details. They notice the seasonings, the contrasts, the unexpected. They thank you for the wonderful meal. :D

 

Others put their face to the plate and like gluttons, scarf the whole thing up like starving animals, only thankful that they will soon be able to sit back and belch. They say, "well, gotta run!" :)

 

Get my drift? No... I'm sure you don't, and probably never will, but I hope that my words are not wasted on everyone that reads them.

 

If my guests acted as you state, I would have appreciated their company. I invited them with no pretext that they criticize the meal or spend a fixed amount of time at my house.

I have had friends and family for dinner on many occasions, whether a BBQ or a full blown thanksgiving dinner, so I know what I am talking about. Or am I disqualified because I haven't had enough dinner parties?

 

My opinion won't change. Complaining because people don't love your cache enough is exactly what GC got rid of by getting rid of ALRs.

 

Now, if you want to follow me around to more topics and criticize how I am not qualified to have an pinion, just let me know and I will give you a list of some other forums I may post at.

Translation, this is not the first time you have decided you were better than me. I assure you, I am just fine.

 

Have a nice evening.

Bittsen,

stop wasting your fingers typing replies. These folks attacking YOUR opinion and thoughts are just trying to get a rise out of you.

Heck, I feel the same way as you. But with my 8 hides, these folks would see it as the same thing as not having any hides.

Honestly, I read the logs when it comes into my email box and delete as soon as I've read it. It makes no difference to me whether the log contains 1 word or 100 words, as long as there is no spoiler and of course no one is berating me.

Its all about someone having the enjoyment of finding a cache. The log is a geocaching.com requirement.

The game is about finding something, not writing down everything associated with finding the cache.

 

So RELAX, and leave it alone.

 

And I find it funny that the OP has remained oddly silent through this.

 

Do I believe what I'm reading here? What I see is Bittsen attacking one of the world's most renowned cachers, and calling him a whiner. No one says Bittsen can't have an opinion. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who is fluent in winning friends and influencing people. :anicute:

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Do I believe what I'm reading here? What I see is Bittsen attacking one of the world's most renowned cachers, and calling him a whiner. No one says Bittsen can't have an opinion. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who is fluent in winning friends and influencing people. :D

 

I've had my differences with Bittsen before but when you don't address the substance of the argument and instead bring up reputation, it loses something in heft. If I were you I would rethink the line of attack and adjust it to the substance of the posts in this topic. To compare two individuals based on forum repartee/reputation on the forums undermines your argument that Chad's Acquaintance (for whose posts I have a great deal of respect and the shuffle was done out of fun) has an insurmountable advantage in credibility (and thereby dispensing bittsen to the rubbish bin). Instead it smacks of the old guard vs anyone else. To me, it's not an argument that holds water and could be phrased differently. TWU: I also have followed your posting carefully and find that you are 1) compassionate, funny and well-spoken and 2) willing to admit when you've made a mistake. I respect the latter especially immensely; I don't necessarily expect you to do 2) here because it's a matter of substance rather than tact... I just wanted to share my reading of that point.

 

mrbort

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And to add, I'm totally in agreement with The Guy Who Is a Casual Friend of Chad and while I commented on some of the dialogue re: bittsen, I find my opinion on the topic to be much more in line with what A Person That Claims Knowledge of Chad and others in the same vein.

 

Just to clarify and have fun with knowschad's name :D

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"My opinion is don't delete the log because it's not explanatory enough."

 

We are in agreement.

 

"Otherwise these attacks on me are merely emotional responses "

 

Attacks on YOU? :):D:D Uh, not quite the way most of us are seeing this, Bittsen.

 

"If you can find flaws in my logic, then great"

 

We have... you have no hides, yet continue to tell us how we, that have, should feel about the logs we receive. That is flawed logic.

 

See... look at it this way. You invite some friends over for dinner (or maybe not friends, but somebody, anyway) You spend all day fixing the very best meal that you know how to fix. You spend what you can to get the best ingredients, and maybe even more. You really go out of your way to make an extrordinary meal for these folks.

 

Some of your guests take some time to slowly taste and savor and pay attention to the details. They notice the seasonings, the contrasts, the unexpected. They thank you for the wonderful meal. :D

 

Others put their face to the plate and like gluttons, scarf the whole thing up like starving animals, only thankful that they will soon be able to sit back and belch. They say, "well, gotta run!" :anicute:

 

Get my drift? No... I'm sure you don't, and probably never will, but I hope that my words are not wasted on everyone that reads them.

 

If my guests acted as you state, I would have appreciated their company. I invited them with no pretext that they criticize the meal or spend a fixed amount of time at my house.

I have had friends and family for dinner on many occasions, whether a BBQ or a full blown thanksgiving dinner, so I know what I am talking about. Or am I disqualified because I haven't had enough dinner parties?

 

My opinion won't change. Complaining because people don't love your cache enough is exactly what GC got rid of by getting rid of ALRs.

 

Now, if you want to follow me around to more topics and criticize how I am not qualified to have an pinion, just let me know and I will give you a list of some other forums I may post at.

Translation, this is not the first time you have decided you were better than me. I assure you, I am just fine.

 

Have a nice evening.

Bittsen,

stop wasting your fingers typing replies. These folks attacking YOUR opinion and thoughts are just trying to get a rise out of you.

Heck, I feel the same way as you. But with my 8 hides, these folks would see it as the same thing as not having any hides.

Honestly, I read the logs when it comes into my email box and delete as soon as I've read it. It makes no difference to me whether the log contains 1 word or 100 words, as long as there is no spoiler and of course no one is berating me.

Its all about someone having the enjoyment of finding a cache. The log is a geocaching.com requirement.

The game is about finding something, not writing down everything associated with finding the cache.

 

So RELAX, and leave it alone.

 

And I find it funny that the OP has remained oddly silent through this.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I sort of figured they were doing that because they have done it before in other subjects. really didn't have anything better to do at the time than rebut their gang attacks.

 

I also find it odd that the OP has been silent. Almost bait-like.

 

For jholly

 

popcorn.jpg

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Do I believe what I'm reading here? What I see is Bittsen attacking one of the world's most renowned cachers, and calling him a whiner. No one says Bittsen can't have an opinion. But he doesn't seem like the type of guy who is fluent in winning friends and influencing people. :D

 

I've had my differences with Bittsen before but when you don't address the substance of the argument and instead bring up reputation, it loses something in heft. If I were you I would rethink the line of attack and adjust it to the substance of the posts in this topic. To compare two individuals based on forum repartee/reputation on the forums undermines your argument that Chad's Acquaintance (for whose posts I have a great deal of respect and the shuffle was done out of fun) has an insurmountable advantage in credibility (and thereby dispensing bittsen to the rubbish bin). Instead it smacks of the old guard vs anyone else. To me, it's not an argument that holds water and could be phrased differently. TWU: I also have followed your posting carefully and find that you are 1) compassionate, funny and well-spoken and 2) willing to admit when you've made a mistake. I respect the latter especially immensely; I don't necessarily expect you to do 2) here because it's a matter of substance rather than tact... I just wanted to share my reading of that point.

 

mrbort

 

Point well taken. I can definitely step aside, and see "old guard vs. anyone" in mine and Knowschads posts. However, in this highly (over) moderated forum (and from "old guard" experience in this forum), I find quotes like these from Bittsen to be sarcastic and volatile:

 

I will be as snarky as I want. Why? Because.......wait for it.......I am ME~

 

Anyone who is insulted by a few short "logs" is a little sensitive when you consider........wait for it........the BIG picture.

 

The kind of things that maybe are more well suited for an NBA message board with Lakers and Magic fans last week. Or a Pro Wrestling message board. :anicute:

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Point well taken. I can definitely step aside, and see "old guard vs. anyone" in mine and Knowschads posts. However, in this highly (over) moderated forum (and from "old guard" experience in this forum), I find quotes like these from Bittsen to be sarcastic and volatile:

 

I will be as snarky as I want. Why? Because.......wait for it.......I am ME~

 

Anyone who is insulted by a few short "logs" is a little sensitive when you consider........wait for it........the BIG picture.

 

The kind of things that maybe are more well suited for an NBA message board with Lakers and Magic fans last week. Or a Pro Wrestling message board. :D

 

Agreed on those points for sure. Again you step up to the plate and own your posts. I can't exaggerate how this impresses me.

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It can be expected that someone who hides a cache prefers log where the finder takes time to share their experience (bad or good) at the cache rather than treating this cache a just one more smiley to log. It is enjoyable as a cache owner to read a good story written by a finder of your cache. You feel like your effort in hiding the cache is appreciated. If someone seems to be just logging the minimum so they can mark the cache as find, you might feel like you are being cheated a bit because you didn't get that long log, and perhaps you interpret this as a slight to your cache.

 

This sense of entitlement should not be a part of cache ownership. In fact the best you might hope for it that the people who find your cache put it back as they found it and don't mess up the area where you have hidden your cache. If cacher chooses he may log his find (or his DNF) on line. The main reason for doing so is for that cacher to keep a record of their caching experience. Many cachers use this space to share their experience with other cachers and to thank the owner for the hide, but there is absolutely no requirement that this be done.

 

Bittsen may just be trying to say that if he owned a cache he would not have any expectation that the logs would be written in any particular style or level of detail.

 

What is childish are those cache owners who believe they can control what people will write in the online logs by threatening to delete logs that don't meet their standards. There seems to be a misplaced belief that the smiley is worth something and you can get people to do stuff for a smiley. This was the point behind ALR caches and the reason that I finally changed my opinion to agree with the change that prevents hiders from deleting logs because of failure to do an additional logging requirement. There may be a few individuals that have a misunderstanding of the real value of a found it log and will do whatever a cache owner wants to get that smiley. But my guess is that most individuals will eventually realize that the smiley is not worth dealing with a pretentious cache owner and they will eventually start to ignore the hides of such a controlling individual. This game is supposed to be about having fun and trying to force someone else to do something your way is not my idea of fun.

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It can be expected that someone who hides a cache prefers log where the finder takes time to share their experience (bad or good) at the cache rather than treating this cache a just one more smiley to log. It is enjoyable as a cache owner to read a good story written by a finder of your cache. You feel like your effort in hiding the cache is appreciated. If someone seems to be just logging the minimum so they can mark the cache as find, you might feel like you are being cheated a bit because you didn't get that long log, and perhaps you interpret this as a slight to your cache.

 

This sense of entitlement should not be a part of cache ownership. In fact the best you might hope for it that the people who find your cache put it back as they found it and don't mess up the area where you have hidden your cache. If cacher chooses he may log his find (or his DNF) on line. The main reason for doing so is for that cacher to keep a record of their caching experience. Many cachers use this space to share their experience with other cachers and to thank the owner for the hide, but there is absolutely no requirement that this be done.

 

Bittsen may just be trying to say that if he owned a cache he would not have any expectation that the logs would be written in any particular style or level of detail.

 

What is childish are those cache owners who believe they can control what people will write in the online logs by threatening to delete logs that don't meet their standards. There seems to be a misplaced belief that the smiley is worth something and you can get people to do stuff for a smiley. This was the point behind ALR caches and the reason that I finally changed my opinion to agree with the change that prevents hiders from deleting logs because of failure to do an additional logging requirement. There may be a few individuals that have a misunderstanding of the real value of a found it log and will do whatever a cache owner wants to get that smiley. But my guess is that most individuals will eventually realize that the smiley is not worth dealing with a pretentious cache owner and they will eventually start to ignore the hides of such a controlling individual. This game is supposed to be about having fun and trying to force someone else to do something your way is not my idea of fun.

Well said with one correction. Not "if" I owned a cache, but "when" I own one.

I actually have 1 that is merely waiting for the container as I want to make sure it will survive the conditions it will be placed in. And one that is a mere variation on a common urban cache.

 

And, with either one I will accept a simple TFTC as a log entry. Why? Because the first "T" is a "thanks".

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I think it is a really bad idea deleting a log because in your opinion it is 'poor'.

 

What say the cacher is, for example, my brother who basically didn't learn to read and write until he was about 18??? He can read now, but still doesn't write much. If he is caching with us you might get a "found with Annie & PB" log. If the cache was really fantastic you might get, "Good cache found with Annie & PB." For him, that's a lot of writing!!!!!

 

What say the cacher is, for example, a family we know that caches and home schools, and the kids look for and log the caches themselves??? If the seven year old is writing the log (or even the ten year old for that matter!) you might get 8 or 10 words, but certainly not a nicely worded paragraph.

 

What say the cacher barely speaks English, never mind writing it and they feel quite proud of themself for writing one sentence in English, even though the grammar is not that great??

 

What say the cacher is a person with a physical or intellectual disability that prevents them being able to write fluently???

 

What say the person just thought your cache was really boring, and they couldn't think of anything more to say than a short phrase or sentence.........

 

My advice, just live with some short or 'boring' logs and move on.

OR only hide such stupendously amazing caches that you will never get a short or 'poor' log!!!!!!!

 

Annie

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I think it is a really bad idea deleting a log because in your opinion it is 'poor'.

 

What say the cacher is, for example, my brother who basically didn't learn to read and write until he was about 18??? He can read now, but still doesn't write much. If he is caching with us you might get a "found with Annie & PB" log. If the cache was really fantastic you might get, "Good cache found with Annie & PB." For him, that's a lot of writing!!!!!

 

What say the cacher is, for example, a family we know that caches and home schools, and the kids look for and log the caches themselves??? If the seven year old is writing the log (or even the ten year old for that matter!) you might get 8 or 10 words, but certainly not a nicely worded paragraph.

 

What say the cacher barely speaks English, never mind writing it and they feel quite proud of themself for writing one sentence in English, even though the grammar is not that great??

 

What say the cacher is a person with a physical or intellectual disability that prevents them being able to write fluently???

 

What say the person just thought your cache was really boring, and they couldn't think of anything more to say than a short phrase or sentence.........

 

My advice, just live with some short or 'boring' logs and move on.

OR only hide such stupendously amazing caches that you will never get a short or 'poor' log!!!!!!!

 

Annie

 

... The REAL problem is when you get an amateur novelist writing logs! You're just like "Shut up already!" :D

 

*is guilty of that sometimes*

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I agree with both of you, but what frustrates me (and what spurred me to write the post that Kit linked to) is when you have a fantastic cache, one of the best in your area, and you get the "Found with Lunkhead. TFTC". :(
My question is....

 

So what?

You've not hidden a cache, so I guess you really wouldn't know what is like, huh? :(
He hasn't hidden a cache, so you refuse to answer his question? What's that all about?

 

I've hidden a cache. Please explain to me why this is a big deal.

 

If it is true that you have a fantastic cache, it probably gets lots of glowing logs, right? If so, why do you care if is occasionally gets a TFTC?

Issues often have several faucets but any one thread normally only covers one of them.
Even so, forum participants will leak all over themselves to pack in their personal grievances. Edited by sbell111
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Life is full of little disappointments. No one needs to hide a cache to understand that.

 

I don't think I'll let a short log frustrate me to the point of deleting it from a cache page. I have much less petty things to worry over. Like why my coffee gets cold so fast and should I get a fresh cup.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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"Unhban Southport, west Lancs,UK"

 

"the geocaching season here in the UK is now in full swing"

 

He's from up north you know, where the sunshine has only just reached.

 

Down here in the sunny part of the New (since @1066) Forest I've racked up a massive 39c' but I did start out in the chill of winter. So no 'geocaching season' down here.

 

For my 'tuppence worth' I do it to see the normally unseen and finding the unknown. With thanks to the hider but surely passing a literacy test is not part of the deal.

 

Well thanks one and all for lighting up a dull day at work.

 

I had those beers last night shame I didn't have the lasses.

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There seems to be a misplaced belief that the smiley is worth something and you can get people to do stuff for a smiley.

 

You and I disagree here. Even with the ALR thing gone.... You CAN get people to do LOTS of stuff for a smiley, you just can't EXPECT it. :(

 

I've gotten people to do lots of stuff ALR and mostly not.... A regular Tom Sawyer am I. :):(

 

As always, it's not WHAT you say so much as HOW you say it. :D

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Yes it is a dull day at work:-

 

Dib, dib, dib … Dob, dob, dob

On My Honour, I promise that I will do my best by ‘writing an elegant and grammatically correct log’

To do my duty of ‘thanking the hider in an effusive and sycophantic way,

To give no help to other Geocachers by way of spoilers.

And to keep the Sods Law.

 

With a nod to the Boy Scouts where all are lost without gps.

 

And with no thanks to the Bill Gates book of spelling and grammar.

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Bittsen-"My question is.... So what?"
Whether you agree with Bittsen or not he made a perfectly reasonable reply that I fully agree with. Unlike Bittsen I do have enough finds and hides for even the most elite cacher to consider my opinion as valid(after reading some of the replies, maybe not :( ). Some of my hides have 100-300 logs and while I'd like everyone who logs my caches to stroke my ego and tell me how much they love the cache, I live in the real world and realize that just ain't gonna happen. A short log is only going to bother me if I let it bother me and life is too short for such pettiness. That they took the time to find my cache is good enough for me.

 

Deleting a cacher's log or emailing them to tell them to edit their log because it doesn't meet your standards is the height of hubris. Around 2000 years ago Epictetus summed it up real well:"Of all existing things some are in our power, and others are not in our power. In our power are thought, impulse, will to get and will to avoid, and, in a word, everything which is our own doing. Things not in our power include the body, property, reputation, office, and, in a word, everything which is not our own doing"

 

The best thing you can do is just forget it.

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Deleting a cacher's log or emailing them to tell them to edit their log because it doesn't meet your standards is the height of hubris.

 

Just to clarify, (without re-reading the entire thread, I can't be 100% certain of this, but to the best of my knowledge,) the only person that even suggested deleting a log based on the "quality" of said log was the OP, and even he said that he'd sent an email inviting a re-log.

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