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Changing Difficulty Rating Out of Spite


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I'm not going to give any names or cache names here, although I believe that some of the parties involved read this forum and are more than welcome to speak up if they want. I'm also not pointing any blame... just an interesting dilemna raised by a recent set of circumstances.

 

An event in a town known for its evil hides. After the event, a group of cachers go after some of the most "evil" caches in town... ones that have had only a handful of finds in a couple of years. The cache owner has deliberately gone to long lengths to make the caches difficult and here in one afternoon, suddenly the entire group of cachers logs Found Its on them.

 

The cache owner is (in my opinion) understandably frustrated, and even a bit angry. Some of the people claiming the finds might never even have attempted these caches if it hadn't been for being in the group, others may have attempted, but failed repeatedly. It feels like cheating to the cache owner.

 

So, the cache owner, in retaliation, lowers the say, 4.5/1.5 difficulty/terrain to 1/1. (OK, forget about wheelchair accessability for the moment).

 

This act not only lowers the stats for those that honestly found the cache prior to the group cache logs, but it gives vastly misleading ratings for those to come. But it does effectively "hurt" those that found it in the group, as long as they care about their stats (and I believe that many in that group do).

 

Thoughts?

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If this group went out to look for these hides together, whats wrong with that. That is one of the great things about this sport. It gave some of the people that wouldnt normally do this type of cache a chance to see some good hiding places. I see nothing wrong with what they did and no I don't consider it cheating.

 

Now for the owner, they are just being petty. I understand that they wanted to have a hard cache and to make it difficult for the searchers. If they where any kind of cacher they would just leave it the way it was and wait for more DNF's. So what if a group of friends went searching and found there hides, that's what geocaching is all about.

 

The person I believe is in the wrong here is the hider. You need to be accurate with your ratings and your descriptions for future cachers. The price of gas is getting to high for somebody to go looking for a 1/1 and find something harder that they wouldn't have gone after in the first place.

 

These are just my thoughts, and others may feel differently.

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This act not only lowers the stats for those that honestly found the cache prior to the group cache logs, but it gives vastly misleading ratings for those to come. But it does effectively "hurt" those that found it in the group, as long as they care about their stats (and I believe that many in that group do).

 

I agree with everything ctraugh2005 said, however this did not affect the finders if the hide still finds.

 

Don't get me wrong, I personally have my little competitions within competitions my, self. Right now I am chasing filling in the calendar dates where I do not have hides, however we all are getting too hung up on ztats, expecially ones that are meaningless to anyone else. I have to think that the finders this matters to, especially in an area with many evil hides, already have 5 diffs in their stats.

 

Chill out, take a step back and have fun.

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Personally, I think the cache owner is being childish. The D/T should accurately reflect the conditions.

If I go on a group run for a 5/2, and someone hands me the container without my having searched for it, my individual experience would then be a 1/2.

However, that doesn't change the actual D/T of the cache for the next seeker.

A question about stats: If the owner eventually returns the D/T rating where it should be, would the finder's stats change?

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As an owner of some difficult hides, I don't worry about things like that. I hide caches so that others can have fun finding them and if they're happy going there 5 times before they finally find it, or if they go there once and a friend tells them where it is, it doesn't matter to me.

 

As a finder, I'd be upset if an owner changed a cache rating for something like that.

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A question about stats: If the owner eventually returns the D/T rating where it should be, would the finder's stats change?

Yes. Stats change whenever a cache rating changes on the cache page. You have to have downloaded the latest GPX file/My Finds file for your stats to show a change, though.

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I think this actually could hurt someone who wasn't in the group.

 

I am currently trying to complete my D/T grid and don't have a 4.5/1/5 cache done. If I had just completed this and the CO changed the rating it would set me back. If I had finished everything else and was trying to get a Fizzy Challenge owner to let me log the challenge cache it would show that I hadn't finished.

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I am much more likely to go with a group for a very difficult cache. It's a good idea for safety reasons, and we can prepare and pool our resources for the challenge. It never crossed my mind that someone might consider this cheating. I do think it's wrong for the CO to intentionally give incorrect diff/terr ratings just to spite those that find his cache to improve their stats.

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I am much more likely to go with a group for a very difficult cache. It's a good idea for safety reasons, and we can prepare and pool our resources for the challenge. It never crossed my mind that someone might consider this cheating. I do think it's wrong for the CO to intentionally give incorrect diff/terr ratings just to spite those that find his cache to improve their stats.

 

You are referring to the terrain rating, I'm sure. My post is talking more about the difficulty of finding the cache. Safety (aside from sanity) would not be a concern here.

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It's a bit petty (ok, a lot petty, really) and deceptive on the part of the cache owner as the others have suggested.

 

Maybe the offended (does not play well with others) cache owner should work on a solution to group-think... or temporarily disable his caches when he knows 'the group' is going to be out and abouting.

 

 

michelle

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If this group went out to look for these hides together, whats wrong with that. That is one of the great things about this sport. It gave some of the people that wouldnt normally do this type of cache a chance to see some good hiding places. I see nothing wrong with what they did and no I don't consider it cheating.

 

Now for the owner, they are just being petty. I understand that they wanted to have a hard cache and to make it difficult for the searchers. If they where any kind of cacher they would just leave it the way it was and wait for more DNF's. So what if a group of friends went searching and found there hides, that's what geocaching is all about.

 

The person I believe is in the wrong here is the hider. You need to be accurate with your ratings and your descriptions for future cachers. The price of gas is getting to high for somebody to go looking for a 1/1 and find something harder that they wouldn't have gone after in the first place.

 

These are just my thoughts, and others may feel differently.

 

Very nice.

I don't mind if a group finds my cache. The group aa a whole did experience the difficult hide as intended. Where I do get a bit annoyied is the phone a friend network. Then the experience changes to "look for the 3rd brick from the edge, 8 bricks up, it's a false front." When that happens every PAF benefactor short circuits the cache. At least with the group everone was looking before someone got lucky and everone else had a "ooooHHHhhhhh!" moment.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Thoughts?

I can kinda understand where the owner is coming from. However, I'd not ever change the rating out of spite. I don't think that would be fair for others.

 

I do mind if there is a huge group that goes after our caches. Most of our urban caches are in places that will only tolerate very small groups. We even have a Cache Machine prohibition on our caches.

 

Another issue for me with huge groups is how does a huge group remain stealthy? A huge group on a evil hide could very well compromise the hide. What could have existed for years with no problems suddenly causes concerns for neighbors and passersby. The curious checks it out and we all know what can come of bystanders' concerns and fears.

 

I don't mind folks working in teams to solve a nice hide, but that has to be balanced with cache preservation.

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If that was my hide I would take pride in the fact that it took a whole group to find my cache. When I hide caches, I try to hide ones that I would like to find if it wasn't mine. I like a challenge when I cache, so I go after the harder caches. So naturally I try to make my caches hard to find (or difficult to get to). That being said I find joy in hiding caches so others can have fun. I would never get mad because someone found my cache. If that day ever comes that is my last day geocaching.

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How does one go about enforcing a "Cache Machine prohibition"?

Generally, at least around here where Cache Machines started, if someone requests that a cache not be on the route, it is removed. That doesn't prevent someone from trying on their own, but most of the time there are so many on the route adding more isn't done.

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Whoa! I browse the forums all the time. I am one of the only ones from my area that actually visits here quite regularly. Being from a smaller part of the world I don't expect to see discussions about things that happen in my area.

 

I can say I am on the fence about this subject. There were actually three caches involved here. One of them was a very very hard one. I take pride in the fact that I was FTF on this cache and I spent more than 18 hours looking for it. Now this past weekend a large group of people go and find this cache. 90% of the group wouldn't have found it, if it weren't for the group. I think this really cheapens the whole cache experience for me. Most of the people there didn't spend all that much time looking for the cache to begin with and just wanted an easy find with out doing the work. I can understand where the owner comes from. This cache has generated a lot of hype in our area it has become somewhat of a legend.

 

As for the other two caches that were also found by this group. At least one of them was in an area where a large group would stick out. There was a street that passes by this cache and it is one of the busier streets in the city. I don't think it is a good idea for too many people to be seeking a cache at one time.

 

I love caching in a small group but I don't take people to extremely hard caches so they can get a free find. I also don't like the idea of gathering a lot of people together in hopes that one of them will find it. I usually only take people who are my friends and will assist in the find. There have been other caches in the past that have been found by many of the same people in similar sized group. I have avoided these little get togethers because it completely takes away from the accomplishment of the find.

 

Geocaching is just a game or a hobby, but for a lot of us it takes up a good portion of our free time and is very important to us. I can understand both sides of the fence here but I am going to have to say that I don't think the group should have gone after the big cache in question.

 

StaticTank

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What is a cache machine? It must be something that hasn't made it's way to New England.

 

A cache machine is a highly organized group of cachers who work as a team to find all the caches in an area. Quite often the object is to set a record for the number of caches found.

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Whoa! I browse the forums all the time. I am one of the only ones from my area that actually visits here quite regularly. Being from a smaller part of the world I don't expect to see discussions about things that happen in my area.

 

I can say I am on the fence about this subject. There were actually three caches involved here. One of them was a very very hard one. I take pride in the fact that I was FTF on this cache and I spent more than 18 hours looking for it. Now this past weekend a large group of people go and find this cache. 90% of the group wouldn't have found it, if it weren't for the group. I think this really cheapens the whole cache experience for me. Most of the people there didn't spend all that much time looking for the cache to begin with and just wanted an easy find with out doing the work. I can understand where the owner comes from. This cache has generated a lot of hype in our area it has become somewhat of a legend.

 

As for the other two caches that were also found by this group. At least one of them was in an area where a large group would stick out. There was a street that passes by this cache and it is one of the busier streets in the city. I don't think it is a good idea for too many people to be seeking a cache at one time.

 

I love caching in a small group but I don't take people to extremely hard caches so they can get a free find. I also don't like the idea of gathering a lot of people together in hopes that one of them will find it. I usually only take people who are my friends and will assist in the find. There have been other caches in the past that have been found by many of the same people in similar sized group. I have avoided these little get togethers because it completely takes away from the accomplishment of the find.

 

Geocaching is just a game or a hobby, but for a lot of us it takes up a good portion of our free time and is very important to us. I can understand both sides of the fence here but I am going to have to say that I don't think the group should have gone after the big cache in question.

 

StaticTank

 

Thanks for the counter-points, StaticTank. I agree with many of the things you said. I am part owner of a difficult cache in my neck of the woods, and shortly after it was put out, a local cacher was said to have been overheard saying that he would love to get a local caching group to go looking for that one. I was dismayed when I heard it, and emailed the person, who vehemently denied having said that. But the fact remains that I was dismayed by the very thought of a "one-for-all, all-for-one" approach.

 

I hope I made it clear in my original posting that I personally am not taking sides in this matter, aside from the problem that I pointed out about the ratings now being incorrect for the caches.

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Whoa! I browse the forums all the time. I am one of the only ones from my area that actually visits here quite regularly. Being from a smaller part of the world I don't expect to see discussions about things that happen in my area.

 

I can say I am on the fence about this subject. There were actually three caches involved here. One of them was a very very hard one. I take pride in the fact that I was FTF on this cache and I spent more than 18 hours looking for it. Now this past weekend a large group of people go and find this cache. 90% of the group wouldn't have found it, if it weren't for the group. I think this really cheapens the whole cache experience for me. Most of the people there didn't spend all that much time looking for the cache to begin with and just wanted an easy find with out doing the work. I can understand where the owner comes from. This cache has generated a lot of hype in our area it has become somewhat of a legend.

 

As for the other two caches that were also found by this group. At least one of them was in an area where a large group would stick out. There was a street that passes by this cache and it is one of the busier streets in the city. I don't think it is a good idea for too many people to be seeking a cache at one time.

 

I love caching in a small group but I don't take people to extremely hard caches so they can get a free find. I also don't like the idea of gathering a lot of people together in hopes that one of them will find it. I usually only take people who are my friends and will assist in the find. There have been other caches in the past that have been found by many of the same people in similar sized group. I have avoided these little get togethers because it completely takes away from the accomplishment of the find.

 

Geocaching is just a game or a hobby, but for a lot of us it takes up a good portion of our free time and is very important to us. I can understand both sides of the fence here but I am going to have to say that I don't think the group should have gone after the big cache in question.

 

StaticTank

 

I don't see how they can cheapen your experience. Actually you can still claim bragging rights for the FTF and now for having done it yourself, without assistance. Now, if they had done it first and left a bright red arrow pointing out the cache I suppose you can say they degraded your experience.

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I also wanted to add I personally wouldn't have changed the Difficulty and Terrain Rating but just like most things in Geocaching that is left up to the owner.

 

I did have some help when I got the FTF but it was with some people who are friends and not a crowd of people. There were only two others with me. They had spent a lot of time at the cache location looking and had on several occasions spent that time (HOURS) looking with me.

 

StaticTank

Edited by StaticTank
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This begs the question; at what point does a group become too large to be acceptable? The 15 hours I spent hunting for the aforementioned evil urban micro was split up into several trips. Some were solo, some included my wife, another included my son, another included my daughter. Our first attempt included a local cacher who wanted to find it. The cache owner was on hand for that 5 hour search, and he didn't seem bothered at all that my attempt was not solo. In fact, there was an event held there, with the added purpose of ganging up to find it. (Incidentally, no one at the event found it)

 

Were the people on the group hunt friends? If so, how does that differ from your attempts?

You had help. They had help. The only thing that's changed is the volume.

So, how many assistants is too many?

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What is a cache machine? It must be something that hasn't made it's way to New England.

 

A cache machine is a highly organized group of cachers who work as a team to find all the caches in an area. Quite often the object is to set a record for the number of caches found.

In the Pacific Northwest, at least, a Cache Machine is a day-long event of caching and camaraderie, capped with a dinner event (and sometimes night-before and morning-after events). It can involve a hundred or so cachers from all over the region; teams often have names and decorate their cars so we recognize each other as we travel around the area.

 

TravisL originated Cache Machines in 2002 and continues to organize 3-4 per year. Here's the Cache Machine bookmark list if you want to know more. We had one on Whidbey Island in January, in the Quad Cities in April, and our next is in Vancouver (BC) in June. TravisL always complies with any request to have specific caches removed from the planned route. The local caching communities are usually quite enthusiastic, and go out of their way for the visitors, often setting up coffee and lunch stops, offering local PAF lists, hiding out at their own caches to catch folks in the act, contacting the local LEO to let them know what's happening, etc. There have been geocoins, pathtags, and T-shirts created for some CMs. I often cache alone, and prefer geo-hikes, but the occasional Cache Machine can be quite fun!

 

Regarding the OP: I agree with ctraugh2005 and most others who've responded. The group finds are a blip on the radar, not the first or last time this has happened with a challenging hide, and certainly not something to change ratings over, which impacts previous/future finders.

Edited by hydnsek
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Although I can feel the cache hider's frustration he/she has to remember that we are looking for a hide for the experience. The quality of that experience differs between cachers. Some just want to find it for the smiley, some want to find it out of curiosity and evilness of it's hide and some want to be in the group to find it for camaraderie.

 

We have a fairly difficult puzzle cache in the NJ Puzzle Master Challenge (PMC) that took several nights just to create. The first cachers found it by grunting through the puzzle. Then there was the next wave that you could tell the secret was out on how to solve it. There are even a few logs where cachers were "along for the ride" with others who had solved it. I will add this though, some who found it and are in the hunt for the PMC logged their find as a note until they solve the puzzle themselves, at which point they'll change their note to a "found" (we cant blame them, they came as a group from a long distance to find several of the PMC caches in the area)

 

To be honest, we were a little annoyed at first about some of those who found it in a group or with a lot of obvious help from others but the same bottom line is that they all enjoyed the cache which matters the most for us. John Doe can move into the area tomorrow and the cache is going to be just as difficult for him as it was on day one of publishing for everyone else.

 

-galaP-

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Although I can feel the cache hider's frustration he/she has to remember that we are looking for a hide for the experience. The quality of that experience differs between cachers. Some just want to find it for the smiley, some want to find it out of curiosity and evilness of it's hide and some want to be in the group to find it for camaraderie.

 

Every cache I do I learn something.

Some of the caches around me I may never learn how to find them. A group of other cachers would be indispensible for me to learn some things.

 

There was a day when I didn't know to look under a lamp post skirt. It took a while before I knew to check under fence post caps. It took longer to.... well you get the idea. I never would have thought of looking under a lamp post skirt if I didn't read the forums. I need to learn from others on some of these. I've only been caching two months.

 

We've been caching alone and are quite ignorant to a lot about caching it appears.

I would love the opportunity to learn some tougher caches with a group. I don't relish spending ten hours on one cache. That is not what I cache for. I do it for fun and entertainment and stress relief. Let me tell you, that is not relieving stress to me.

We just skip those that we visit three times and then can't find. I'd love to learn more and find them.

 

i've never cached with a group. I'd be interested in a small group if some want to join in in the south of seattle area to get some tough ones together. Would be fun with some other new people. ;) Others with under a few hundred finds would be fun.

let me know if you're interested. Not really interested in groups of 100 or something. Maybe ten or so max.

Anyone interested e-mail me.

 

:rolleyes::anicute:

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I would say that if the owner felt so strongly about this, they should have seen it coming (with the upcoming event and the certain attraction of their hide), and disabled their cache(s). Possibly even temporarily removing the container(s) to prevent the 'group find' by only one 'qualified' finder.

 

Questionable ethics perhaps, but a better option than screwing with the ratings.

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Reason # 231 that I stopped logging my finds online.

 

Huh? 1) What does that have to do with the subject at hand, and 2) Logging your finds online is how you reward the person that took the trouble to put a cache out for you to find. To not log your finds online is not only disrespectful, but selfish.

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... I can say I am on the fence about this subject. There were actually three caches involved here. One of them was a very very hard one. I take pride in the fact that I was FTF on this cache and I spent more than 18 hours looking for it. Now this past weekend a large group of people go and find this cache. 90% of the group wouldn't have found it, if it weren't for the group. I think this really cheapens the whole cache experience for me. Most of the people there didn't spend all that much time looking for the cache to begin with and just wanted an easy find with out doing the work. I can understand where the owner comes from. This cache has generated a lot of hype in our area it has become somewhat of a legend. ...
For the life of me, I can't figure out how this would affect you, at all. These people didn't retroactively affect how you experienced the cache.

 

If I were to (finally) find one of JoGPS' awesomely devious caches, I would feel pretty good about myself. If the enxt guy to come along painted a huge "Here's the cache!" note with a big old arrow pointing at the cache, it would change the cache experience for future finders and make more work for Joe, but it wouldn't change my experience with that cache, at all.

 

Similarly, if I make a cache run and find thirty caches in a day, I am not negatively affected if a group of players find 50 in the same area.

 

As to the OP's issue, I think that a cache owner should strive to keep his difficulty/terrain ratings as accurate as possible. This may require adjustments, on occasion. If it makes it more difficult for people who are playing some side game based on the rating of caches that they have found, too bad.

 

If, based on the frequency of finds and feedback received from the logs, the cache owner feels that the difficulty should be adjusted drastically downward (or upward), that is his prerogative. A change to the terrain rating of .5 one way or the other is not even worth discussing.

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Reason # 231 that I stopped logging my finds online.

 

Huh? 1) What does that have to do with the subject at hand, and 2) Logging your finds online is how you reward the person that took the trouble to put a cache out for you to find. To not log your finds online is not only disrespectful, but selfish.

The point is that some people have stopped logging online for reasons just like this. It doesn't address your OP directly but I understand how it applies.
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Reason # 231 that I stopped logging my finds online.
Huh? 1) What does that have to do with the subject at hand, and 2) Logging your finds online is how you reward the person that took the trouble to put a cache out for you to find. To not log your finds online is not only disrespectful, but selfish.
The point is that some people have stopped logging online for reasons just like this. It doesn't address your OP directly but I understand how it applies.
I can't for the life of me figure out how the two issues are connected. Perhaps you or BadAndy could share the theory with the rest of the class.
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Reason # 231 that I stopped logging my finds online.
Huh? 1) What does that have to do with the subject at hand, and 2) Logging your finds online is how you reward the person that took the trouble to put a cache out for you to find. To not log your finds online is not only disrespectful, but selfish.
The point is that some people have stopped logging online for reasons just like this. It doesn't address your OP directly but I understand how it applies.
I can't for the life of me figure out how the two issues are connected. Perhaps you or BadAndy could share the theory with the rest of the class.

No thanks. I think it has a bit of a sideways connection to the discussion. You don't. We'll leave it at that. I see no need to debate it into the ground and REALLY drag the thread off-topic. If you want to discuss it further PM works for me. :rolleyes:
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It feels like cheating to the cache owner.

 

So, the cache owner, in retaliation,

 

That quote can be applied to a large number of complaints seen over and over again on these forums. The underlying problem is that we're all different and play the game our own ways. When two opposing strategies collide, it often ends up with deleted logs, archived caches or geocides. This is then followed by a rousing forum thread where unaffected souls can frolic and contemplate how it all should be.

 

By not logging finds I remove myself from the numbers game. Most of these issues are tied to stats and scores and I can do without both.

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That quote can be applied to a large number of complaints seen over and over again on these forums. The underlying problem is that we're all different and play the game our own ways. When two opposing strategies collide, it often ends up with deleted logs, archived caches or geocides. This is then followed by a rousing forum thread where unaffected souls can frolic and contemplate how it all should be.

 

I DO NOT post regularly on these forums, however I do read them occasionally.

 

I agree that some play the game differently than ourselves and those on opposing sides think the other is wrong.

 

Some will log a single cache "many" times for temp caches they found at an event for example. I DO NOT, a temp cache is simply that "temporary".

 

Some will spend MANY hours on a difficult cache knowing they put in the work needed to log the cache.

Others will do "anything" just to log the find, even if they didn't actually put in the time or effort needed to log it. Is this fair to those who actually put the time in?

 

Every cache is not for everyone, yet some feel they need to log every cache.

 

How would someone prevent a "group" from finding their difficult caches?

If someone were to state on a cache page that GROUP CACHING is not allowed, they simply would not mention a "group" in their logs.

 

If everyone in the "group" signs the cache log can you delete their logs anyway?

 

Would deleting logs of those who found the cache with a "group" be acceptable?

 

 

I like to hide tough caches, both in difficulty and terrain. I would much rather give hints to someone who CAN NOT find one of my caches rather than have them go with a group and not put in any effort. Most cachers will put in some effort on a cache before asking for a hint, while others just want the smilie.

 

Geoboss

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I cache with a small group, usually 1 or 2 other people, and the informal rules we use are:

 

1) If it's a cache that one of us has previously found, then that person is a JAFO. They may offer hints if asked or offer advice.

 

2) If the cache being sought hasn't been found previously by any of us, then we work as a group until we get real close to GZ. At GZ we're on our own and if one of us finds the cache they move off a bit and say that they've found it. Once all of us have found it on our own we then open the cache and sign the log.

 

IMHO.... To me this is a hobby. To others it's all about numbers, and to others it's a competition. To each his own.

Edited by ngrrfan
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I cache with a small group, usually 1 or 2 other people, and the informal rules we use are:

 

1) If it's a cache that one of us has previously found, then that person is a JAFO. They may offer hints if asked or offer advice.

 

2) If the cache being sought hasn't been found previously by any of us, then we work as a group until we get real close to GZ. At GZ we're on our own and if one of us finds the cache they move off a bit and say that they've found it. Once all of us have found it on our own we then open the cache and sign the log.

 

IMHO.... To me this is a hobby. To others it's all about numbers, and to others it's a competition. To each his own.

 

Now this reply, I like! In the very few caches I have hidden, I have spent time and take pride in the description, the hint and the camouflage. If cachers want to tackle it as a group, that's fine. Everyone arrives at GZ together, all have the same advantage/disadvantage and tools, GPSr, description, hint etc. If they want to share the find, no problem. If they choose to "go it alone" see #2 above.

 

How many logs have there been describing FTF races? Does this constitute a "group" in the OP context. Most FTF hounds will post the find... FTF making the claim, with the others just logging their disappointment, but a find nonetheless.

 

What I don't like, however, is PAF, if I meant for finders to just walk up and expect a "gimme", I'd have hidden LPC's. :(. I enjoy DNF logs, not to be vindictive, or mean, but it gives me an indication of the condition of my cache, does it need maintenance, or have I got the D/T correct etc. I have contact info on my profile if needed. Don't P.A.F...... P.Me!

 

As mentioned in the OP, changing the D/T for reasons other than "getting it right" is just not on, in my opinion at least.

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I cache with a small group, usually 1 or 2 other people, and the informal rules we use are:

 

1) If it's a cache that one of us has previously found, then that person is a JAFO. They may offer hints if asked or offer advice.

 

2) If the cache being sought hasn't been found previously by any of us, then we work as a group until we get real close to GZ. At GZ we're on our own and if one of us finds the cache they move off a bit and say that they've found it. Once all of us have found it on our own we then open the cache and sign the log.

 

IMHO.... To me this is a hobby. To others it's all about numbers, and to others it's a competition. To each his own.

 

We form a small group just like that to hunt caches! But in our group there is this one guy that runs to the cache and yells...."FOUND IT! IN YOUR FACE! LOOOOOOOZZZERS!!!" Such a despicable, rude, unworthy........WAIT A MINUTE.......That guy is ME!! :(B):D

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So, the cache owner, in retaliation, lowers the say, 4.5/1.5 difficulty/terrain to 1/1. (OK, forget about wheelchair accessability for the moment).

 

Well if a lot of people fond the cache, then perhaps it was rated to high in the first place.

 

well, it sounds like a lot of people found it together rather than just a lot of people found it. to me that's a huge difference in terms collective vs individual effort. it's not just time spent/number of people that equals time per cache but one would have to consider the fact that they're swarming the place and probably bouncing ideas off of one another. Whereas an individual cacher might come to the hide and spend hours and hours, multiple DNFs before his or her individual geosense or persistence finds the cache. I don't think that the fact that a bunch of people finding a cache together should be any reflection on the rating because of the way individuals hunt/think/have ideas.

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So, the cache owner, in retaliation, lowers the say, 4.5/1.5 difficulty/terrain to 1/1. (OK, forget about wheelchair accessability for the moment).

 

Well if a lot of people fond the cache, then perhaps it was rated to high in the first place.

 

Not in this case. This person hides some of the toughest caches in an area known for tough hides. It isn't that a lot of people found it... its that one person in a group found it, and they all gained the smiley. "Divide-and-conquer", followed by "All for one, one for all".

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So, the cache owner, in retaliation, lowers the say, 4.5/1.5 difficulty/terrain to 1/1. (OK, forget about wheelchair accessability for the moment).

 

Well if a lot of people fond the cache, then perhaps it was rated to high in the first place.

 

Not in this case. This person hides some of the toughest caches in an area known for tough hides. It isn't that a lot of people found it... its that one person in a group found it, and they all gained the smiley. "Divide-and-conquer", followed by "All for one, one for all".

Been watchin' this thread...

 

Gotta say, seems to me the cache owner is being childish...

 

Speaking personally, if one person finds a cache of mine...or a group finds a cache of mine (regardless of the "method"...All for one, one for all or each person laughs while each person in the group slowly finds the cache individually)...all I care is that he/she/they find the cache instead of walking away with a DNF...

 

Again, personally, out in groups, I tend to stay away from the second option (where everyone in the group has to find the cache individually)...for some reason, it always turns into a stupid competition and takes away from the fun aspect of caching...seriously, if I want competition...I will join a bowling league...oh...wait...already have and it is a league that just wants to have fun...and competition is the least of our worries...

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It is just a flippin' game people...grow up and go find tupperware in the woods...there are better things to get worked up about...like one hand clapping, or a lone tree falling in the woods with no one around to catch it...

Edited by ArcherDragoon
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