A Wee Bit of Irritation and Dismay at Cachers Who Ask That

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Folks, I have, over the past few days, witnessed something that I have seen on the forums a few times in the past, and the latest occurrence really kinda made my skin crawl, it was so creepy, in terms of the whininess and sense of self-entitlement displayed by the requesters. Here goes with a brief rendering of my tale, and I wonder how many other folks get a creepy feeling from it:

 

My Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! was recently chosen for inclusion in a documentary show on extreme geocaching for a major TV network. The producers wished to film a team tackling the cache (it is usually anywhere from a nine hour job to a 4 day job), and so I started a thread about the whole matter in the Mid-Atlantic section of the forum, in order to find a team willing and able to tackle the cache while being filmed. So far, so good, and, in short order, a team that had already been planning on tackling the cache expressed willingness to do it, and that team is currently coalescing for the effort. No problems there; it all went easy. However....

 

However, as the forum thread progressed, something else happened that kinda amazed me and some of the other participants in the thread. Namely, three or four geocachers, each of them regular, non-paying members, sent posts to the thread, asking/stating things such as (examples follow):

 

Is there a chance that the Psycho Urban caches could be opened up for public viewing? At the moment the #13 cache, and a bunch of the others too, are members only listing.

cool.gif

Agreed, us lowly non-members cannot view these caches.

 

If its only $30 bux then you can buy me a Gift Membership wink.gif J/K - I really dont want one. Purpose of my post was to indicate that if you want to get interest in the cache and make the documentary a success you may want to open it up to all members. Are you looking to promote the sport of geocaching or just premium membership sales?

 

Frankly, I was floored and shocked by these responses, and my first reaction was to contact the posters privately to see if Sioneva or flask (both of them known agents provocateur) had perhaps paid them $50 to send those posts just to irritate me, but no, each of the posters really meant what they posted, and they believed that they were "right".

 

Personally, I am amazed that these folks are asking/suggesting that the listing be removed from Premium member-only status so that they might view the listing page free of charge. The price of a monthly membership at Groundspeak is less than the price of mug of cheap beer, and about the price of one gallon of gasoline, for God's sake!

 

And, from another perspective, we can look at the whole matter in any of the two ways, as well:

• let's consider how much it costs the owners of Groundspeak to run the site, in terms of salaries, bandwidth, servers, programmers, etc.
  
• the Otter Box container and associated cache-site hardware used for PUC #13 cost me about $28.
  
• the FTF and 2TF prizes for PUC #13 cost me over $270, and the FTF prize alone included $160 in cash.
  
• let us consider the fact that each of my two chartered helicopter flights to emplace the cache cost me about $160 apiece (the actual list price was somewhat higher, but I was given a sizeable discount because I am a pilot, and the owner of the helicopter charter facility was also a geocacher.)
  
• My subsequent maintenance visits also each cost me about $160 apiece for helicopter charter.
  
• For me to be able to emplace the cache, the helicopter needed to hover well below the "dead mans curve" just feet above the top of the 80 foot tall pier, and just 90 feet above a cold raging river. In other words, the procedure was rather dangerous, and only about one out of 100 helicopter pilots will even consider tackling the job, due to the dangers involved. I have taken these sizeable risks several times in order to emplace the cache and to do maintenance visits.
  
• the switchable electromagnet-on-a-cable device that I built in my lab shop in order to allow retrieval and replacement of the cache from the air cost (including the numerous D-cell alkaline batteries) over $130.
  

It is obvious that I invested a lot of time and money and effort to place the cache in question. It is also obvious that it costs Groundspeak a lot of money to run this listing website.

 

And yet.... some non-paying members, who are already enjoying a tremendous number of benefits at the site totally for free, have the gall to ask me to drop the PMO status of this cache, and of my other Psycho caches, just so that they can view the cache listing pages FOR FREE????

 

I am shocked, irritated and dismayed. In fact, since reading those requests, I have been continually looking to the western horizon for some sign of the approach of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, because if humanity has really degenerated to this point, then this must indeed be the beginning of the End of Days.

 

So, then, to be fair, I decided that maybe these folks were right, and maybe I was wrong. So, I proceeded to contact the following businesses and ask them if they would start giving me their products and services entirely for free, rather than asking me to pay for their products and services:

• my Internet service provider, to which I pay $40 per month for DSL service. They said no.
  
• my phone company, to which I pay about $40 per month. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• my local gas station, where I fuel my car once per week. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• my favorite Vietnamese restaurant; I asked if they would give me all my favorite dishes for free from now on. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• my propane gas supply company, from which I purchase over $1,000 of gas per year for heating purposes. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• My electric company. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• I then contacted my old graduate school, and asked them if I could return in order to pursue a PhD degree for free; normal cost would be about $90,000 over five years. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• I then contacted each of the major US airlines, and explained that I often fly around the USA on research field trips, and I asked them if they would, from now on, give me free flights to any destinations of my choice. Amazingly, they said no.
  
• my car is getting a bit old, and has become a bit of an oil burner now that it has over 140,000 miles on it, and so I visited each of 11 different car dealers in my area, asking each of them if they would give me a new car for free. Amazingly, they said no.
  

...sigh....!

 

I guess the biggest thing that I wonder is what causes people to display such egregious levels of sense of self-entitlement. Or, are they perhaps a different species than I? Why do I find their behavior so foreign and so distasteful? Do these people TOTALLY lack gratitude and appreciation? In fact, this kind of behavior is INFANTILE.

 

.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+SUp3rFM & Cruella]

"If it's on the internet, it MUST be free!"

 

*sigh* all the way.

 

It's like those who pay $400 for a GPS or $15,000 for a 4x4 (aimed essentially for geocaching) and find $30/y outrageous. It's beyond logic. :puzzled:

[+Nathan Wert]

I think you're just being overly sensitive and need to take a chill pill.

 

But as you've paid your premium member fee I see you can't afford the chill pill. So maybe just ignore the people that are too cheap to pay the money that you and I've paid. I've never even gone geocaching yet, and I've been a member for a month now.

 

I do want to thank you for all that you've done for the "sport/hobby/obsession" along with all the really fun posts you've posted. I understand exactly where you're coming from on this topic though. I pay for premium subscriptions on several web sites where I barely participate because I like those web sites and want to contribute.

 

I don't know what else I'm typing right now, my fingers just seem to keep going and I don't know how to stop them anymore. Someone...please....get my fingers to stop typing....I don't have control over them anymore....We're watching the movie Bolt for the second time in two days and I just love the hamster Rhino. He's my hero.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Isn't it going to be a bit of a letdown when the film crew finds out that Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! is a liar's cache & is really just a blinkie on the guardrail in the parking lot overlooking the pylon?

 

[+Team O-Zone]

It is your cache and you have every right to list it as You see fit. I am not a premium member right now due to several reason that is going on in my household. Am I bitter about PMO's. No. It just gives us something to look forward to.

 

Why don't you ask those cachers in question to check out this thread. There has been a lot of insightful info given.

 

Nothing in life is really free. Except for the air we are breathing right now, but I'm sure the government is working on a way to tax us on that too!

[+Tequila]

Has anyone asked why Groundspeak allows free memberships?????

 

Non premium members have been sanctioned, perhaps encouraged, by Groundspeak.

 

While I agree that $30 is the least amount anyone will ever spend on caching (costs more than that for gasoline for a single day), don't lose sight of the fact, they are only doing what Groundspeak says they can do.

 

I am reminded of last week's episode of 2 1/2 Men where the pharmacist gives Charlie a bottle of codeine laced cough syrup and says the first bottle is free.

 

If I were you, I would politely respond that as a Premium Member you have chosen to take advantage of one of the features by creating a PMO cache. As a non-PMO they have lots and lots of caches to do without doing PMO caches. If they really want to do it,then they should consider becoming a PM, if only for the 3 month trial.

 

Brow beating them for not being a PM, when Groundspeak allows it, is not right.

[+Max and 99]

I hope this "irritation" doesn't apply to families with quite a few members having their own accounts. Only we, the parents, pay the PM fee, and it's hard to afford to buy one for each of the kids. We have to be careful with caches we find since not all Cache Owners of PMO caches will allow the kids to log a find even though we all cached together. I am always willing to let family members of a PM log my PMO caches.

[+OregonCacher]

Why I see where you're coming from, I think you've gone slightly overboard on this one. Not every cacher is perfect, and there is no cacher "mold". We come from all walks of life, and thus there will always be people that might ask for this kind of thing, or complain about the premium membership cost.

 

Having a thread to try to spite all of them isn't really going to do anything. Again, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't productive.

[+OregonCacher]

Why I see where you're coming from, I think you've gone slightly overboard on this one. Not every cacher is perfect, and there is no cacher "mold". We come from all walks of life, and thus there will always be people that might ask for this kind of thing, or complain about the premium membership cost.

 

Having a thread to try to spite all of them isn't really going to do anything. Again, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't productive.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Brow beating them for not being a PM, when Groundspeak allows it, is not right.

Nobody is being assulted for not being a PM. It is rather insulting that people are always browbeating PMs for using the features they pay for. Are people going to start asking PMs to start sending them PQs too? I'm sure it already happens.

[Mr.Yuck]

I hast seen those posts, and were not the least bit outraged by them. I won't say where they are, but it shouldn't be too hard for people to find them.

 

I don't see a problem. If you, Vinny, were advertising for people to seek out your Psycho Urban for a film crew, why is this cache available only to Premium paying members, which represent only a tiny fraction of the of the well over 2,000,000 registered accounts at Geocaching.com?

 

As I've said several times before: the "pay money for enhanced features" model is all over the internet. I could probably list dozens of examples, if I felt the need to look them up. Just because PMO caches are one of the many benefits of a premium membership at Geocaching.com doesn't mean they have to be one of them. What if they went away tomorrow? I'd still pay the $30 a year for Pocket Queries alone, let alone the other couple of dozen "benefits".

Edited March 22, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+Mredria]

What you're not understanding is that if someone aspires to make money off of a job that they love, they must be evil, because money's evil.

Right, comrades?

[Mr.Yuck]

What you're not understanding is that if someone aspires to make money off of a job that they love, they must be evil, because money's evil.

Right, comrades?

 

And this relates to the fact the Vinny's cache is not viewable by the overwhelming majority of registered geocachers how? So they make money off the website. Fine and dandy. The fact that they have caches that most people can't access, and the fact that they make money on the website are totally independent of each other. At least I would think.

[+Tequila]

What you're not understanding is that if someone aspires to make money off of a job that they love, they must be evil, because money's evil.

Right, comrades?

 

This comment is meaningless and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

 

Make better use of your time. Go find a cache.

[+VFISHNOLJETHRO]

I think they are just curious to see why it is an "IMPOSSIBLE CACHE" but you are right, it is only 30 $ if they just skipped starbucks for 6 days they can afford to purchase a membership.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Has anyone asked why Groundspeak allows free memberships?????

 

Non premium members have been sanctioned, perhaps encouraged, by Groundspeak.

 

While I agree that $30 is the least amount anyone will ever spend on caching (costs more than that for gasoline for a single day), don't lose sight of the fact, they are only doing what Groundspeak says they can do.

 

I am reminded of last week's episode of 2 1/2 Men where the pharmacist gives Charlie a bottle of codeine laced cough syrup and says the first bottle is free.

 

If I were you, I would politely respond that as a Premium Member you have chosen to take advantage of one of the features by creating a PMO cache. As a non-PMO they have lots and lots of caches to do without doing PMO caches. If they really want to do it,then they should consider becoming a PM, if only for the 3 month trial.

 

Brow beating them for not being a PM, when Groundspeak allows it, is not right.

No one, including myself, has been browbeating the "askers" for being non--paying members. Rather, my complaint and mild contempt is for those non-paying members who have the gall to ask me to change the cache from a PMO cache to a regular cache just so that they can see the cache listing page. THIS DISPLAYS AMAZING LACK OF GRATITUDE AND APPRECIATION TOWARD Groundspeak AND TOWARD ME AS THE CACHE OWNER, AND DISPLAYS AN AMAZING SENSE OF SELF-ENTITLEMENT.

 

.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

What you're not understanding is that if someone aspires to make money off of a job that they love, they must be evil, because money's evil.

Right, comrades?

 

And this relates to the fact the Vinny's cache is not viewable by the overwhelming majority of registered geocachers how? So they make money off the website. Fine and dandy. The fact that they have caches that most people can't access, and the fact that they make money on the website are totally independent of each other. At least I would think.

 

If they really want to read Vinny's cache listings after they have read his free posts in the forums, they ought to pay just like the rest of us (lord knows, we who read them have to pay more than money) ("lord knows" is just a saying we have around here, no inference to any affiliation with alien grays, Sionevil, flask or any other being/organization controlled by any occult hand).

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Why I see where you're coming from, I think you've gone slightly overboard on this one. Not every cacher is perfect, and there is no cacher "mold". We come from all walks of life, and thus there will always be people that might ask for this kind of thing, or complain about the premium membership cost.

 

Having a thread to try to spite all of them isn't really going to do anything. Again, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't productive.

I think that a thread such as this is very productive, as it may give the whiners and complainers a chance to recognize their dysfunctional and ungrateful behavior and the concomitant chance to decide to grow up and become contributing members of society, or, at the least, it might shame some of the "askers" into either shutting up or becoming Premium members if they wish to see the PUC #13 listing page.

 

Again, as noted many times before, I have NOTHING against non-paying "free" or regular members. What I do mind is if and when they ask or demand that I convert my PMOC caches to ordinary caches. This takes a tremendous amount of gall, nerve and moral depravity, in my book.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Are you allowing the film crew to access the cache page???

It never hurts to ask?

Vinny, it sounds like more than a 'wee bit of irritation and dismay'?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

 

Brow beating them for not being a PM, when Groundspeak allows it, is not right.

Nobody is being assulted for not being a PM. It is rather insulting that people are always browbeating PMs for using the features they pay for. Are people going to start asking PMs to start sending them PQs too? I'm sure it already happens.

Exactly. No one is attacking non-paying regular members. Rather, it is the whiners and complainers among them whose dysfunctional and offensive behavior we are addressing.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Isn't it going to be a bit of a letdown when the film crew finds out that Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! is a liar's cache & is really just a blinkie on the guardrail in the parking lot overlooking the pylon?

 

It is a particularly obnoxious ALR, because the additional logging requirement, once a finder reaches the top of the pier and signs the logbook, is that they must claim, in their online find log, that the cache turned out to be a 1/1 lame lamppost micro in a Wal Mart parking lot. sad... very sad....

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Are you allowing the film crew to access the cache page???

It never hurts to ask?

Vinny, it sounds like more than a 'wee bit of irritation and dismay'?

Yes, I am sure that Groundspeak has given the film crew and the producers a PM account to allow them to access the cache listing page. Please remember that this is a Groundspeak-endorsed project, and it was Groundspeak which approached me about participating in this project; it is not MY project.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Isn't it going to be a bit of a letdown when the film crew finds out that Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! is a liar's cache & is really just a blinkie on the guardrail in the parking lot overlooking the pylon?

 

It is a particularly obnoxious ALR, because the additional logging requirement, once a finder reaches the top of the pier and signs the logbook, is that they must claim, in their online find log, that the cache turned out to be a 1/1 lame lamppost micro in a Wal Mart parking lot. sad... very sad....

 

 

So, that's why my log was deleted

I chose to claim a guardrail instead of a light pole.

I thought I was being creative...

 

Still, if that film crew is from a "big city", they're gonna be pi**ed unle** they're already in on the ruse.

Now I know a "real" filmmaker who'd appreciate it, he'd even go along with letting you "sneaking him in in the trunk of the helicopter"...

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Wow, Vinny, if this situation is true, those cachers who asked for you to open your PMO cache to everyone have a lot of gall. I've seen a lot of things but that's simply amazing.

 

All I can say is, "WOW!!!"

[+buttaskotch]

I think you have every right to feel irritated. I have read many posts by non paying members that do brow beat, are disrespectful and incite a lot of ill will.

 

I do pay my $30 a year, becsuse I use every part of the membership and think that its money well spent for a hobby I love. I also, like the fact that you can make it a members only cache so that people can;t screw with the caches. reminds me of the Maxim article that came out about a year ago, about how to screw with geocachers.

 

Keeping the psycho caches PM only also protects the integrity of the cache from people who wander onto the site have zero knowledge of things and go after the cafche without proper gear or reaching out to CO and potentially hurting themselves. Not saying that all cachers let the CO know they are going after their cache, but I think a high degree of cachers going after a Psycho cache would.

 

And Vinny, tit for tat. Vent all you want, if the non paying members can do it, so shou/d you.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Wow, Vinny, if this situation is true, those cachers who asked for you to open your PMO cache to everyone have a lot of gall. I've seen a lot of things but that's simply amazing.

 

All I can say is, "WOW!!!"

Yes, exactly my reaction! I was amazed, and I really wonder if their behavior is a final sign of the moral decline of the human race, and a harbinger of the beginning of the End of Days.

 

(And, to invoke Godwin's Law): Finally, I must say that I suspect that even Hitler would have thought twice before sending such a demeaning and selfish request as these folks did. In fact, so mindless was their behavior that it is almost as if an occult hand had reached down from above and...

Edited March 23, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Isn't it going to be a bit of a letdown when the film crew finds out that Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! is a liar's cache & is really just a blinkie on the guardrail in the parking lot overlooking the pylon?

 

It is a particularly obnoxious ALR, because the additional logging requirement, once a finder reaches the top of the pier and signs the logbook, is that they must claim, in their online find log, that the cache turned out to be a 1/1 lame lamppost micro in a Wal Mart parking lot. sad... very sad....

 

 

So, that's why my log was deleted

I chose to claim a guardrail instead of a light pole.

I thought I was being creative...

 

Still, if that film crew is from a "big city", they're gonna be pi**ed unle** they're already in on the ruse.

Now I know a "real" filmmaker who'd appreciate it, he'd even go along with letting you "sneaking him in in the trunk of the helicopter"...

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Wow, Vinny, if this situation is true, those cachers who asked for you to open your PMO cache to everyone have a lot of gall. I've seen a lot of things but that's simply amazing.

 

All I can say is, "WOW!!!"

divine hand had reached down from above and...

 

divine?

 

I didn't join up fer no religious stuff, Vinny.

I thought you said occult.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Wow, Vinny, if this situation is true, those cachers who asked for you to open your PMO cache to everyone have a lot of gall. I've seen a lot of things but that's simply amazing.

 

All I can say is, "WOW!!!"

divine hand had reached down from above and...

 

divine?

 

I didn't join up fer no religious stuff, Vinny.

I thought you said occult.

It is almost as if an occult hand had reached down from above and...

 

[+Star*Hopper]

So, Vin. Ya gonna make 'em non-PMO, or not?

 

~*

\edge o' my seat

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Ya need to get rid of that Ouija (pronounced wee-gee) Board, Vinny.

 

Trust the goats.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Why I see where you're coming from, I think you've gone slightly overboard on this one. Not every cacher is perfect, and there is no cacher "mold". We come from all walks of life, and thus there will always be people that might ask for this kind of thing, or complain about the premium membership cost.

 

Having a thread to try to spite all of them isn't really going to do anything. Again, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't productive.

I think that a thread such as this is very productive, as it may give the whiners and complainers a chance to recognize their dysfunctional and ungrateful behavior and the concomitant chance to decide to grow up and become contributing members of society, or, at the least, it might shame some of the "askers" into either shutting up or becoming Premium members if they wish to see the PUC #13 listing page.

 

Again, as noted many times before, I have NOTHING against non-paying "free" or regular members. What I do mind is if and when they ask or demand that I convert my PMOC caches to ordinary caches. This takes a tremendous amount of gall, nerve and moral depravity, in my book.

 

As someone who in that forum thread agreed with the "non-premium" crowd on this (although we are Premium Members), I want to retract that and apologize on this one. I know your series is "extreme" but I didn't really read some of the caches well enough to truly understand and I think if it were costing me a helicopter, etc. to maintain that I'd want to limit who could see it as well. My response was probably one of the less irritating ones but it was obviously a naive response so I am taking it back. Good luck with the TV stuff.....

[+Runaway46]

I heard that all the AIG executives are getting their memberships paid for. Now who would do that?

[+seiujohn]

You shouldn't even bother with those emails. At the end of the day, after contacting them and discussing it on this forum, they're still gonna be idiots. Why waste your time trying to fix what their parents obviously screwed up in their first 18 years. Move on and enjoy all the good people engaged in this sport/hobby/obsession.

[+Astro_D]

Vinny, I hope you stand your ground and keep it a PMO cache. It's time people get a reality check and realize that no one is entitled to anything in this life. Plain and simple, they want to see the cache page, they fork out the money.

[+DiamondDaveG]

You shouldn't even bother with those emails. At the end of the day, after contacting them and discussing it on this forum, they're still gonna be idiots. Why waste your time trying to fix what their parents obviously screwed up in their first 18 years. Move on and enjoy all the good people engaged in this sport/hobby/obsession.

 

Vinny, I hope you stand your ground and keep it a PMO cache. It's time people get a reality check and realize that no one is entitled to anything in this life. Plain and simple, they want to see the cache page, they fork out the money.

 

Ditto & Ditto

[Mr.Yuck]

Vinny, I hope you stand your ground and keep it a PMO cache. It's time people get a reality check and realize that no one is entitled to anything in this life. Plain and simple, they want to see the cache page, they fork out the money.

 

I couldn't disagree more with this post. I still can't tell whether or not Vinny is serious about this, and no one has quoted me, or directly addressed my concerns in my two other posts to the thread. It's as if an occult hand has reached down from above and slapped me upside the head, rendering me clueless.

[+TexasGringo]

<Not every cacher is perfect,>

 

Why Single Me Out?

[+ThirstyMick]

Dude, you posted the thread advertising your cache. People who couldn't view it, b/c they aren't PMs asked if you could change the status so they could see what you were advertising. A polite "no" would suffice.

 

I don't think it's entitlement to ask to be able to look at something which somebody directs you to look at.

[+ThirstyMick]

Also, does every member of your caching family have their very own premium membership? b/c judging by your username, more than one person caches under your account.

 

One of those "whiners" can see your cache page and was merely commenting to support people who can't see it and may have been a little frustrated to learn that they were directed to look at something they cannot.

[+Menehune2]

"If it's on the internet, it MUST be free!"

 

*sigh* all the way.

 

It's like those who pay $400 for a GPS or $15,000 for a 4x4 (aimed essentially for geocaching) and find $30/y outrageous. It's beyond logic. :puzzled:

 

Well what about the few of us that got a GPS as a gift, surf the net at the library and ride bicycles or car pool to caches? Some of us like reading and fantasizing about caches we will never be able to do. Isn't part of geocaching allowing us to dream of visiting hard to find places?

 

Its great that Vin spent all that time and money doing something he obviously loves when he made the cache. But I don't think he is getting any return on the money spent from Groundspeak. Listen it's great that some of you are premium members and I hope to be one day soon also. BUT there are a lot of people out there who will never be members so why deny them the chance to read about or try your cache?

 

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible or do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Does it really harm or help the sport one way or the other? I think thats the question that should be asked here.

 

My feeling is if I put all that hard work into making such a challenging cache that only a few attempts would even be tried I would like to share it with as many people as possible.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

Jeez, Louise.

 

I'm just one of Vinny's sock puppets ( 3rd baby toe, left side) & I've got a paid premium membership just so that I can "watch" the Psycho caches.

 

Gimme a break, pi** or get off the pot. If you ain't payin' you ain't playin'.

 

It's almost as if an occult hand had picked their pockets...

 

(Alternatively, play for free & be happy. It is possible to play and be perfectly happy without ever seeing any of the PUC pages).

[+LadeBear68]

Dude, you posted the thread advertising your cache. People who couldn't view it, b/c they aren't PMs asked if you could change the status so they could see what you were advertising. A polite "no" would suffice.

 

I don't think it's entitlement to ask to be able to look at something which somebody directs you to look at.

 

Also, does every member of your caching family have their very own premium membership? b/c judging by your username, more than one person caches under your account.

 

One of those "whiners" can see your cache page and was merely commenting to support people who can't see it and may have been a little frustrated to learn that they were directed to look at something they cannot.

 

Interesting comment. So if you are a family using one premium account for all the benefits isn't that unfair? I as a single cacher shouldn't have to pay the same fees as one who uses their premium account for two or more people.

Edited March 23, 2009 by LadeBear68

[+Team Black-Cat]

It is, at times, hard to guage the seriousness of a Vinny post, but this is bizarre. A chance to be part of a GS endorsed documentary, possibly on a "major" network, and someone doesn't want to put down a few bucks for membership to GC?

I would look for some new victims volunteers.

[+slukster]

I enjoyed reading the play-by-play on your Psycho Urban Cache #13. Very entertaining and I wish that I had the skills to reach a 5/5 cache like that.

 

After reading all of the logs to this PUC #13 cache, I have to ask Vinny a question. What happened to you in the past 2 1/2 years? (See quote below from Sept. 22, 2006) You seemed to have had a heart back then and gave the lowly non-premium cachers a three day sneak peak at this crazy cache. Has your compassion for the unworthy non-premium cachers gave way to a cranky, elitist PM?

 

Lastly, by popular request from a number of non-premium members who wished a chance to peek at the cache listing page, I am TEMPORARILY lifting the premium-member-only (PMO) status of the cache, for three days only, to allow non-premium members a chance to have a look at it! I will be restoring the PMO status by Monday, 9/25. BTW, regular members (i.e., non-premium) are welcome to log finds on this cache if they manage to find it and to adhere to the find requirements. There are several ways for regular members to log finds on PM caches; please see past threads on the national forums, now in the archives, for details on how to do so.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I enjoyed reading the play-by-play on your Psycho Urban Cache #13. Very entertaining and I wish that I had the skills to reach a 5/5 cache like that.

 

After reading all of the logs to this PUC #13 cache, I have to ask Vinny a question. What happened to you in the past 2 1/2 years? (See quote below from Sept. 22, 2006) You seemed to have had a heart back then and gave the lowly non-premium cachers a three day sneak peak at this crazy cache. Has your compassion for the unworthy non-premium cachers gave way to a cranky, elitist PM?

 

Lastly, by popular request from a number of non-premium members who wished a chance to peek at the cache listing page, I am TEMPORARILY lifting the premium-member-only (PMO) status of the cache, for three days only, to allow non-premium members a chance to have a look at it! I will be restoring the PMO status by Monday, 9/25. BTW, regular members (i.e., non-premium) are welcome to log finds on this cache if they manage to find it and to adhere to the find requirements. There are several ways for regular members to log finds on PM caches; please see past threads on the national forums, now in the archives, for details on how to do so.

Yes. You are entirely correct. I did that one brief lifting of PMO status in a moment of weakness, and, then, over the next two years, after having been continually wined and dined and given all kinds of fancy gifts (the 4-seater Bell helicopter was the best, and the jet pack, along with a year's supply of fuel, was the next best, although the 3-day outing with Danica Patrick was not bad either, nor the outing to the ruins near Lake Titicaca with Lara Croft...) by the Premium Members Elite Club, the Platinum Members Super-elite Club, and their parent organizations, the skunk ops branch of the CIA and the Bavarian Illuminati, I gave in -- my heart became small and cold, and I decided that never again would I do such a thing. Thank you for noticing my transformation!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

It is, at times, hard to guage the seriousness of a Vinny post, but this is bizarre. A chance to be part of a GS endorsed documentary, possibly on a "major" network, and someone doesn't want to put down a few bucks for membership to GC?

I would look for some new victims volunteers.

Just to clarify, the persons who posted those (to me) bizarre comments and requests to lift the PMO status on the relevant forum thread were not volunteers/candidates for the team, but rather were simply spectators wanting to look at the PUC #13 cache listing page. I have had similar requests come up on forums several times in the past regarding the same cache, and also regarding PUC #14, PUC #10 and PUC #9.

 

Again, as I have said many times in the past, I have nothing against non-paying "free" regular members, but I do have fantasies of asking the CIA to waterboard the small subset of non-paying regular members who keep asking me to remove the PMO status on my Psycho caches so that they may view the cache listing pages for free. To me, such requests represent the near-ultimate in depraved lack of gratitude to Groundspeak and to me, and a major sense of self-entitlement and narcissism.

 

And, as a postscript, I should add that to my best knowledge, no one seriously interested in tackling that cache (including the current crop of candidates for the currently-forming PUC #13 team headed by Dutch and Maureen) has ever asked for the PMO status on the cache to be removed. In fact, all candidates for the current team, and all past seekers/finders/DNFers, have all been Premium members already. That makes sense, because the measly membership price of $3 per month is trivial compared to the costs of travel, gear and training needed to tackle an extreme cache such as this.

 

.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+SUp3rFM & Cruella]

What are the benefits of making your cache members only? Do you wan't to keep the finds and attempts as low as possible or do you want to create a exclusive level of caches? Does it really harm or help the sport one way or the other? I think thats the question that should be asked here.

 

What are the benefits of placing a cache on a rock wall 300ft from the bottom? Guess only a few will nail it. It would be great for many if the cache was at the parking spot.

 

For me, a PMOC cache is just like any other. In order to get it, you have to do something, either hike, climb, dive or pay a fee to GSP. And that's the way it is. The reason to place a PMOC cache is just like any other: The owner CAN! If he wants it like that, he's got a reason to do it so, which is clearly valid. Enough with the angst towards PMOC caches.

[+ThirstyMick]

Dude, you posted the thread advertising your cache. People who couldn't view it, b/c they aren't PMs asked if you could change the status so they could see what you were advertising. A polite "no" would suffice.

 

I don't think it's entitlement to ask to be able to look at something which somebody directs you to look at.

 

Also, does every member of your caching family have their very own premium membership? b/c judging by your username, more than one person caches under your account.

 

One of those "whiners" can see your cache page and was merely commenting to support people who can't see it and may have been a little frustrated to learn that they were directed to look at something they cannot.

 

Interesting comment. So if you are a family using one premium account for all the benefits isn't that unfair? I as a single cacher shouldn't have to pay the same fees as one who uses their premium account for two or more people.

 

The PM account was my decision, and the benefits are mostly mine, but that doesn't change that he can look at the listing if he wants. We aren't exactly a family, we're still somewhere in between.

How many families have multiple PM accounts? It doesn't look like Vinny and Sue do. I know of a bunch of people with one PM account for the pair of them whether they have two accounts or one. Plenty of 3, 4, 5 person families too. We usually cache together. I run the PQ, we carry one GPS...

 

But the point I wanted to make is that Vinny came to the forum to draw attention to his cache. The two people asking to see it didn't just stumble upon it and ask him to remove the PMO status, he invited the attention. They asked to see what he advertised and he flipped out, instead of just saying no. How does he know they wouldn't want to attempt it? Maybe they'd even be encouraged to become PMs seeing what wonderful challenging hides are out there.

 

I know if I asked to see something that I was directed to look at and then the person wanting the attention tried to make me feel like a jerk, more than anything it would discourage me.

[+ThirstyMick]

Just to clarify, the persons who posted those (to me) bizarre comments and requests to lift the PMO status on the relevant forum thread were not volunteers/candidates for the team, but rather were simply spectators wanting to look at the PUC #13 cache listing page.

 

If they could view the page, maybe they would volunteer. But without knowing what it was about, how could they possibly be expected to volunteer? Maybe seeing what is out there, they'd see the benefits of premium membership too.

 

Again, as I have said many times in the past, I have nothing against non-paying "free" regular members, but I do have fantasies of asking the CIA to waterboard the small subset of non-paying regular members who keep asking me to remove the PMO status on my Psycho caches so that they may view the cache listing pages for free.

 

You invited the attention to your cache. They didn't "keep asking you to remove the PMO status." As far as I know, neither of them had heard of or would have had any interest in your cache if you hadn't come looking for the attention.

 

To me, such requests represent the near-ultimate in depraved lack of gratitude to Groundspeak and to me, and a major sense of self-entitlement and narcissism.

 

To me, the idea that a person living hundreds of miles away from you should have any sort of gratitude toward you for placing a cache, no matter how "extreme" it is, that they haven't even visited, and can't even see, is pretty narcissistic.

 

I don't expect you to be grateful for the caches I place. You don't even know me, or live near me and will probably never hunt any of my caches, why should I expect gratitude from you? I don't expect gratitude from anyone. All I expect, all I hope for is that they'll enjoy their hunt.

 

All that said, you're cache does look cool. It actually looks like something I might enjoy. When I was out your way, I didn't have any equipment and would've been totally unprepared, but it does look like a fun time. If I attempted to hunt it, gratitude might be a word I'd consider using. But gratitude should be something that flatters you, not something you expect.

Edited March 23, 2009 by ThirstyMick