Official Thread for Discussing the Minor Oh So Blue (GC15D) Controversy

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Okay folks, here it is, and with a big thanks to 9Key for suggesting that the discussion and debate about the Oh So Blue cache (GC15D) be shifted from the cache listing page to the main forum at Groundspeak. Feel free to go ahead and discuss the matter here!

 

Beyond saying that I feel strongly that the listing should remain active at this time, I will defer any further comments on the matter at a later time. You may find my first comment on the matter on the cache listing page.

 

 

.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

You know, if we wanted to be really hi-tech about it, someone could even start a Twitter account called Oh So Blue just for the purpose of accruing comments (of course, limited to 140 characters or less; what a pain!) about this matter! It could even become viral, and move to Britekite, Facebook, Jaiku, Kwippy (and...Kwippy places no upper limit on message length!) and Pixelpipe! Wow!

 

[sailor]

Thanks for doing this! I appreciate it.

Edited January 23, 2009 by sailor

[sailor]

I have a twitter account, but I'm not really well-versed in tweeting. I'll see if I can get one going.

Edited January 23, 2009 by sailor

[+sseegars]

I have a twitter account, but I'm not really well-versed in tweeting. I'll see if I can get one going.

 

What is the debate here?

[+cook cachers]

Thanks for doing this! I appreciate it.

 

If you are familiar with the cache Oh So Blue, it is the oldest unfound cache in the world. There are a couple of people who wish to archive this cache because it has never been found, and the owner cannot verify from his home in California that the caretaker still has it. Many of us posted there was no harm in keeping the cache open until someone can verify it. The reviewer has agreed with this POV and problem solved. Because there was alot of expressed interest in the cache, someone suggested a forum thread.

 

Personally I'm happy and relieved that this cache lives to be found another day!!!

[sailor]

You know, if we wanted to be really hi-tech about it, someone could even start a Twitter account called Oh So Blue just for the purpose of accruing comments (of course, limited to 140 characters or less; what a pain!) about this matter! It could even become viral, and move to Britekite, Facebook, Jaiku, Kwippy (and...Kwippy places no upper limit on message length!) and Pixelpipe! Wow!

 

 

I started a twitter account... https://twitter.com/Oh_So_Blue

 

Feel free to tweet away...

[sailor]

I have a twitter account, but I'm not really well-versed in tweeting. I'll see if I can get one going.

 

What is the debate here?

 

The debate was originally whether this grandfathered cache (mine) in Belize should be archived. Someone wanted to do that even though they hadn't bothered to try and find it.

[+9Key]

I don't really understand why someone would want a cache archived in a country they've never visited. Why be so nosey? The Interpol version of Cache Cops I guess.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

You know, if we wanted to be really hi-tech about it, someone could even start a Twitter account called Oh So Blue just for the purpose of accruing comments (of course, limited to 140 characters or less; what a pain!) about this matter! It could even become viral, and move to Britekite, Facebook, Jaiku, Kwippy (and...Kwippy places no upper limit on message length!) and Pixelpipe! Wow!

 

 

I started a twitter account... https://twitter.com/Oh_So_Blue

 

Feel free to tweet away...

EEEEKKK!

 

[sailor]

You know, if we wanted to be really hi-tech about it, someone could even start a Twitter account called Oh So Blue just for the purpose of accruing comments (of course, limited to 140 characters or less; what a pain!) about this matter! It could even become viral, and move to Britekite, Facebook, Jaiku, Kwippy (and...Kwippy places no upper limit on message length!) and Pixelpipe! Wow!

 

 

I started a twitter account... https://twitter.com/Oh_So_Blue

 

Feel free to tweet away...

EEEEKKK!

 

 

Is that a good thing?

[+Harry Dolphin]

No one has verified that the cache is missing, or even posted a DNF! One cacher sort of looked for it.

I have no idea why anyone would suggest archiving this cache.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

No one has verified that the cache is missing, or even posted a DNF! One cacher sort of looked for it.

I have no idea why anyone would suggest archiving this cache.

Exactly! And, moreover, neither of the two folks who suggested that the cache be archived live anywhere near it, and neither has ever filed even a single DNF on it, much less multiple DNFs! So, the whole situation is very bizarre!

 

.

[+MountainRacer]

I agree that there's no grounds to archive a cache that no one has confirmed to be missing or otherwise inappropriate for maintaining an active listing. That being said... this cache is quite remote, and the mapping screen shows it a ways offshore of what I would guess to be the island referenced in the description. I doubt that a definite resolution to the whereabouts of this cache will be reached anytime soon.

 

...but if any rich cacher is considering chartering a plane to go find out, I speak Spanish.

[Neos2]

If you guys will chip in for my plane fare and other expenses, I will be happy to try to verify the status of the cache!

[Clan Riffster]

The reviewer has agreed with this POV and problem solved.

Works for me! Can we get back to our regularly scheduled micro bashing?

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

What is that? International Cache Police?

[+KJcachers]

adding to my " caches I will do when I hit the lottery" watchlist!

Edited January 24, 2009 by KJcachers

[+Viajero Perdido]

Has it occurred to anybody to just phone the island's proprietor and inquire about a package, and BTW does he still have a funny little container?

 

I found the phone number a while ago with a bit of googling, but it's not handy right now.

 

Let me know; I'm in the neighborhood and could drop in.

[+cook cachers]

If you guys will chip in for my plane fare and other expenses, I will be happy to try to verify the status of the cache!

 

The island is really not an island so much as a mangrove with a fish camp on top. It is not more than 10 miles from the coast of the mainland, but remember that Belize has the second longest barrier reef in the world 15 miles out. So the cache sits on a mangrove in the middle of a long, shallow lagoon. Even when the wind is really blowing, it is relatively smooth on the water.

 

The plane would have to be a seaplane, because there is not a landing strip for miles. Better to charter a boat (or hire a captain) to take you there. Give it two nights so if Richardo is off island the first night (he is the owner so he doesn't have to work everyday), he will fish until dusk the next and not return until near dark. Make friends with the guys on the island, buyfish from them, and they will help you.

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Better to charter a boat (or hire a captain) to take you there.

 

$100 U.S. should get you a local with a Mexican skiff in Gales Point. Only takes about an hour to an hour and a half (one way) if the seas are running chop to light chop.

 

The airfare to get there is the killer part. The phone call would be cheaper but not nearly as much fun!

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+kophykupp]

I'd like to hear the reasons people have for wanting it archived. I haven't seen any on the cache page. I've been watching this cache since I started geocaching and when I win my 43 million tomorrow night, it's tops on my To Do List.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

HaZzMaTt's note on the cache page teared me up.

[sailor]

Has it occurred to anybody to just phone the island's proprietor and inquire about a package, and BTW does he still have a funny little container?

 

I found the phone number a while ago with a bit of googling, but it's not handy right now.

 

Let me know; I'm in the neighborhood and could drop in.

 

The number I found is 227-8469, Ricardo's Beach Huts... Richardo Castillo

 

I also found: Anna Lara at the Mira Río Hotel, 59 North Front St. (P. O. Box 55, tel. 224-4970) in Belize City

[sailor]

HaZzMaTt's note on the cache page teared me up.

 

I forwarded it to all who know about this place.

[+9Key]

HaZzMaTt's note on the cache page teared me up.

 

I forwarded it to all who know about this place.

That was one of the most touching logs I've read since I've been geocaching. I know very little about Hazzmatt, but that was a bold thing he did and I am in awe of the guts it took to summon up that post. Well done, Hazzmatt, I certainly feel for you, more than you'll ever know.

 

Sorry to bring the room down, please return to bashing micros....

[Neos2]

Has it occurred to anybody to just phone the island's proprietor and inquire about a package, and BTW does he still have a funny little container?

 

I found the phone number a while ago with a bit of googling, but it's not handy right now.

 

Let me know; I'm in the neighborhood and could drop in.

Now what fun would that be? I like my idea about checking it out in person much better.

 

Sounds like a perfect summer vacation plan for a science teacher. Lagoons, barrier reefs, boats or sea planes, guys with fresh fish to sell, lounging around waiting for some guy to roam in from a day of fishing...

 

What? Missed him today, oh well, yawn, guess I'll try to catch him again tomorrow. Maybe. If I get up in time. Pass the sunscreen, where did I put my book now? Anyone wanna go snorkeling again?

[+kophykupp]

I really hope a bunch of different people won't decide to call Richardo. If you decide to contact him in this manner, I hope you will agree on a representative. I would personally prefer to leave things as is, with HaZzMaTt (and the rest of us who understand the value of dreams), continuing to dream about the day when we may be able to go and see this place for ourselves.

[+Viajero Perdido]

The number I found is 227-8469, Ricardo's Beach Huts... Richardo Castillo

I also found: Anna Lara at the Mira Río Hotel, 59 North Front St. (P. O. Box 55, tel. 224-4970) in Belize City

Thanks! The first one looks familiar; I think that was the number I found a few months ago. The second one looks like a good backup.

 

Funny, I've gotten a sudden, burning desire to rearrange my itinerary - less Yucatan, more Belize.

 

Hmm...

[+Too Tall John]

I have to agree, people shouldn't be posting SBA's on caches they haven't searched for and there are zero DNFs on.

HaZzMaTt's note on the cache page teared me up.

I forwarded it to all who know about this place.

That was one of the most touching logs I've read since I've been geocaching. I know very little about Hazzmatt, but that was a bold thing he did and I am in awe of the guts it took to summon up that post. Well done, Hazzmatt, I certainly feel for you, more than you'll ever know.

Was there a log deletion or a name change? I'm curious what HaZzMaTt's log said, but don't see it....

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I really hope a bunch of different people won't decide to call Richardo. If you decide to contact him in this manner, I hope you will agree on a representative. I would personally prefer to leave things as is, with HaZzMaTt (and the rest of us who understand the value of dreams), continuing to dream about the day when we may be able to go and see this place for ourselves.

Exactly! Well said!

[+WatchDog2020]

We are planning a trip to Belize this July. Would love to talk the wife type into tring to get this one

[+scuba dude]

I don't really understand why someone would want a cache archived in a country they've never visited. Why be so nosey? The Interpol version of Cache Cops I guess.

 

I don't understand the idea either. I had several cachers from Europe attack one my caches in Kuwait with SBAs claiming it was unfair since it's located on a coalition base. These people are thousands of miles from the cache and have no intent to even search for it. Fortunately, the reviewer was not sympathetic to thier cause.

[+edscott]

If you guys will chip in for my plane fare and other expenses, I will be happy to try to verify the status of the cache!

 

Maybe Groundspeak can hire a "Field Verification Technician" to check on caches in situations like this. I'll overnight my resume....

[+Viajero Perdido]

I just got off the phone with Ricardo. (The first phone number got me to a lady who gave me his cell number.)

 

I explained that I was interested in visiting his island camp, and why. Did he remember Finn (Wayne) giving him a container with a logbook, a geocache, about eight years ago?

 

He said somebody had called a few years back too, asking about the same thing. But unfortunately, he told me that Finn had left him "nothing".

 

In short, Ricardo does not know the whereabouts of any geocache on his island. Alas...

 

Also, unfortunately he's not taking guests right now. Boat troubles, it seems.

[+WatchDog2020]

I just got off the phone with Ricardo. (The first phone number got me to a lady who gave me his cell number.)

 

I explained that I was interested in visiting his island camp, and why. Did he remember Finn (Wayne) giving him a container with a logbook, a geocache, about eight years ago?

 

He said somebody had called a few years back too, asking about the same thing. But unfortunately, he told me that Finn had left him "nothing".

 

In short, Ricardo does not know the whereabouts of any geocache on his island. Alas...

 

Also, unfortunately he's not taking guests right now. Boat troubles, it seems.

 

Never been outspoken until now - this post seems like BS (EDIT: no ofense - just seems strange is all)

Edited January 26, 2009 by WatchDog2020

[+ZSandmann]

I think perhaps someone needs to mail Ricardo an ammo can ASAP I think this is a great cache and in a too cool location. I would hate to see it go away.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I smell a conspiracy here, it goes a little something like this.

 

I can't go after the oldest unfound cache in the world but I can go after the second (maybe third fourth or fifth) so I'll work on getting every cache in my way archived so I can have my claim to geocaching fame.

 

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[+wavector]

I just got off the phone with Ricardo. (The first phone number got me to a lady who gave me his cell number.)

 

I explained that I was interested in visiting his island camp, and why. Did he remember Finn (Wayne) giving him a container with a logbook, a geocache, about eight years ago?

 

He said somebody had called a few years back too, asking about the same thing. But unfortunately, he told me that Finn had left him "nothing".

 

In short, Ricardo does not know the whereabouts of any geocache on his island. Alas...

 

Also, unfortunately he's not taking guests right now. Boat troubles, it seems.

 

Never been outspoken until now - this post seems like BS

 

Your post is the one that seems like BS, at least to every cacher who knows Tom. If Tom said he just got off the phone with Ricardo then he just got off the phone with Ricardo.

 

I will contribute $20.00 to bribe Ricardo to maintain a geocache on his island though, did you ask him about that Tom?

We could all mail him an ammo can cache and some cash to make sure he takes care of it this time.

He probably lost the last one and doesn't want to admit it.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Thanks for the support, wavvy. No BS - I'd be happy if this one wasn't archived, to keep the dream alive.

 

It didn't occur to me at the time to suggest sending him a replacement cache, but it sounds like a great idea. He'd probably be happy to have something (if a bit unusual) to attract customers.

 

PS: The reason I phoned him is that I'm motivated. I really am in the area (Mérida) and can spare a few days for a crazy detour. Had Ricardo said, yes come and get it, I'd have signed up for his package deal (boat included), then hopped on a bus to Belize City. The race would've been on!

Edited January 25, 2009 by Viajero Perdido

[+kophykupp]

You can count me in for a donation too...Although it would absolutely kill me if Viajero got the FTF on this one. I'm still hurting from his FTF on Yam Boulders But I suppose I could take some solace in having it go to a neighbor. I suppose. Maybe. Yeah I'm in. A cache like that - I would be happy to log it no matter where I was in the log book. So....I'm not sure of the etiquette around this, but could you just take a replacement cache with you? All we would really need for verification is some stunning photos of the area, and one of you and Richardo with the cache!

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Caches don't get archived simply because they get muggled!!! They get temporarily disabled. Since nobody has been actively looking for the cache then it doesn't even need that. It might just needs replacing by the owner or by another cacher... which is often done with every other cache in existence.

 

Do we really expect this guy who doesn't care about geocaching to stay on top of a box he was given eight years ago? I mean, I hardly remember what I was doing two days ago, let along eight years ago! So, cache maintenance might be in order... and that's a might. He might still have it... propping up a table leg or something. Nobody knows until somebody DNFs the thing!

 

I do think there's a conspiracy to archive famous caches on the party pooper principle, but I don't think Viajero is part of it.

[Clan Riffster]

So....I'm not sure of the etiquette around this, but could you just take a replacement cache with you?

Would that be a throw down cache? Maybe you could build a spud gun and launch a film can at the island from afar?

At least then you'd have to actually search for something before claiming a smiley.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Although it would absolutely kill me if Viajero got the FTF on this one. I'm still hurting from his FTF on Yam Boulders

Don't worry, I'm out of the running now.

 

<off-topic>

BTW, I loved reading your logs on Yam Boulders and felt your pain every step of the way. Congrats on finally finding it!

</off-topic>

[+Team GeoBlast]

HaZzMaTt's note on the cache page teared me up.

 

Looks like that log is gone now.

 

Regardless... I don't see the point of archiving this cache. It is beyond me why someone would expend the energy to get this cache archived... unless they were owners of the second oldest unfound cache and had some whacked out competition going.

[+cook cachers]

Although it would absolutely kill me if Viajero got the FTF on this one. I'm still hurting from his FTF on Yam Boulders

Don't worry, I'm out of the running now.

 

<off-topic>

BTW, I loved reading your logs on Yam Boulders and felt your pain every step of the way. Congrats on finally finding it!

</off-topic>

 

Why are you out of the running when you are so close. I'll take STF when we get down there this summer.

 

Take a few days off, get down to Belize City, pay someone a few BZD to take you out there cache in hand (and with the cache owners express permission and gratitude), hand Richardo the cache, have him hand it back to you, sign the darned thing and get the ultimate smiley. We'd all be tickled pink, or um maybe green with envy, but happy you kept old grandpappy alive.

[+andGuest]

I just got off the phone with Ricardo. (The first phone number got me to a lady who gave me his cell number.)

 

I explained that I was interested in visiting his island camp, and why. Did he remember Finn (Wayne) giving him a container with a logbook, a geocache, about eight years ago?

 

He said somebody had called a few years back too, asking about the same thing. But unfortunately, he told me that Finn had left him "nothing".

 

In short, Ricardo does not know the whereabouts of any geocache on his island. Alas...

 

Also, unfortunately he's not taking guests right now. Boat troubles, it seems.

 

Never been outspoken until now - this post seems like BS

 

Maybe Ricardo was told that if people asked about the cache over the phone to deny possession. Maybe you have to talk to him in person to get the goods. Just a thought.

[+Ockette]

I've got that on my list of caches to find during my Epic Cruise Around the World, so I'm seriously hoping it's there (and unfound ) in 3-4 years.

[+kophykupp]

So....I'm not sure of the etiquette around this, but could you just take a replacement cache with you?

Would that be a throw down cache? Maybe you could build a spud gun and launch a film can at the island from afar?

At least then you'd have to actually search for something before claiming a smiley.

 

True, that doesn't sound like the best way to do it and would take away from the validity of the FTF. Perhaps we should do as wavector suggested then and mail him one? Anyway, this cache is very far away, but very close to my heart, so I would love to see it continue on.

[sailor]

Thanks for the support, wavvy. No BS - I'd be happy if this one wasn't archived, to keep the dream alive.

 

It didn't occur to me at the time to suggest sending him a replacement cache, but it sounds like a great idea. He'd probably be happy to have something (if a bit unusual) to attract customers.

 

PS: The reason I phoned him is that I'm motivated. I really am in the area (Mérida) and can spare a few days for a crazy detour. Had Ricardo said, yes come and get it, I'd have signed up for his package deal (boat included), then hopped on a bus to Belize City. The race would've been on!

 

Since I'm the owner of the cache, I would be happy to send him a replacement at my expense. However, I don't know the best place to send it. I'm you'd like to send me an email, I'd be happy to get it together and send it off. The cache has a lot of sentimental value for me and mine, and I'd hate to see it go away, all because Ricardo can't find it. I was told at one point that Wayne died. I don't know if that's the case. I do know where he put it... top of a shelf in the "main" building, but that means nothing now I'm sure.

 

Other suggestions are welcome! Please email me.

 

I found this address with a quick google search. I'm happy to get something together, but I'd like to get some kind of confirmation (perhaps another call to him?), so that he won't toss it or wonder what it is when it arrives. Help?

 

Mira Río Hotel, 59 North Front St. (P. O. Box 55, tel. 224-4970) in Belize City.

 

Jonathan

Edited January 25, 2009 by sailor