HELP: How do I put it? THIS IS NOT A TREASURE CHEST!

[+Ambush Bug]

I've been geocaching on-and-off since 2001, back when there were about half a dozen caches in GA. You had to drive for a half an hour to get to the closest one! But I’d never gotten serious about it, partially because although I have enjoyed some of the hunts and cool locations, finding a cache filled with old band-aids, fifteen cents, and half a refrigerator magnet has always depressed me. It's just been sort of rare that I've found a box that cachers clearly had been leaving items as good or better than what they had gotten out.

 

So, I finally decided to start my own cache. I put considerable effort into it, and had been saving cool items to leave in the cache for years. Nothing worth more than five bucks, but no junk, either. I wanted to try an experiment and have a cache with "only good stuff". I felt that hopefully a cache with a theme of having quality items would encourage people to practice some stewardship and leave as good or better than they got. I knew I would probably have to restock it eventually, which I don't mind.

 

Being my first cache, and being excited about it, I checked it every day. One cacher took some new packaged Pez dispensers, and left three used ball-point pens. Another took a harmonica, and left nothing. One cacher left an awesome item, but it was taken the next day. Now after a week, and just eight visits, most of the good stuff is gone, and it's starting to empty out.

 

This experiment has made me like geocaching LESS, not more. Has anyone experienced this? Is there anything I can do without sounding like a jerk? I know people don’t always have a couple of bucks to spare on a cache item, (especially those that average three caches a day) so maybe I’m being too harsh? What can I put in my cache description to help the cache stay filled with “Good Stuff” without sounding like a grumpy old man?

[+sbell111]

Wow. Eight years playing this game and you just discovered this.

[+9Key]

There have been *countless* threads about this over the years, and the general concenus is that the swag in caches degrades quickly no matter what you do. I don't add much swag to my hides because of this. If people want nice swag the local Wal-Mart is chock full of it. The fun should be finding the cache, not "the treasure" inside IMO.

 

edit -spellin'

Edited January 22, 2009 by 9Key

[+Ambush Bug]

Is there anything maybe creative to do here? I've seen virtual caches where people have to send in a picture of themselves at a site with their GPS, or their log gets removed. Since the theme of the cache is "only good stuff" maybe if people don't log what they took/left their log gets removed?

 

It sounds like such a jerky thing to do, though. I'd like the cache to succeed, however...

[+sbell111]

Is there anything maybe creative to do here? I've seen virtual caches where people have to send in a picture of themselves at a site with their GPS, or their log gets removed. Since the theme of the cache is "only good stuff" maybe if people don't log what they took/left their log gets removed?

 

It sounds like such a jerky thing to do, though. I'd like the cache to succeed, however...

This basically depends on your definition of 'succeed'. In my mind, if the local cachers think you are being 'jerky', you haven't succeeded.

 

My best advice would be to actually slightly lower the value of the items that you are putting in your cache. If you better meet the value of the items that people trade into your cache, you will have more people trading 'fairly' and suffer less heartbreak.

 

You could also simply hide caches without trinks.

[+9Key]

Is there anything maybe creative to do here? I've seen virtual caches where people have to send in a picture of themselves at a site with their GPS, or their log gets removed. Since the theme of the cache is "only good stuff" maybe if people don't log what they took/left their log gets removed?

 

It sounds like such a jerky thing to do, though. I'd like the cache to succeed, however...

Virtual caches are no longer allowed on this site and haven't been for several years.

 

If you require some type of special log then you will have to submit the cache as a "Mystery" type. It's called an "ALR" (additional logging requirement). Even if you do that many (most?) cachers don't read the cache page and won't comply with your request / requirement.

 

Just try and divorce yourself from the swag and you'll be much happier. Concentrate on placing unique, fun caches in ncie locations. The swag is secondary.

[+Vater_Araignee]

1. Make it a mystery
   • Most number runners will automatically filter it out.
     
   • Though not a rule, people that do mysteries tend to be more ethical.
     

[*]Hide it extremely well.

• This will send number runners that don't filter out mysteries, packing.
  

[*]Make the cache container look like a treasure chest.

• This will show you really, really care about the quality of your cache and guilt some of the slightly less than ethical finders into being honest.
  

[*]Add your "good" items

[*]Hope for the best.

[+Ambush Bug]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

Edited January 22, 2009 by Ambush Bug

[Skippermark]

We buy swag at our local dollar store and gear it towards kids, but we also add in a few adult items like rain ponchos, matchstick holders and things like that.

 

Spending $10 at a dollar store and a couple bucks at a department store yields enough swag to supply 10-15 hides.

 

We know that it'll be gone after a couple weeks, but we accept that and consider it part of caching, however, I don't go back out and restock the caches with new items. I don't mind people trading unevenly once, but I don't want to keep giving stuff away.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I must've really lucked out. When I had to replace a cache completely (container and all) thanks to an animal wanting a snack, I forgot the swag so it went back with a logbook and pencil only. Cachers began filling the cache with unique swag items.

 

So, yeah, there's a problem with junk swag. But there are also some great cachers out there who do want people to smile when they see some cool swag and they definitely deserve kudos for that.

 

I think you could make a cache theme out of it (such as a "DIY Swag") that asks cachers to trade or leave a homemade item, a personalised item, or an otherwise unique item. You could start it off with a homemade item for FTF prize (or purchase something personalised with "FTF" on it).

 

I just FTF'd on a cache on Monday and the prize was a homemade item. The whole cache was meaningful to start with (and I love those) and to have a homemade FTF prize was just the coolest thing. My daughter is really the only one who's interested in trading swag so I only trade if she's with me. But this FTF was beyond awesome and we're taking special care of it.

 

You might just have to change your perspective on what constitutes valuable swag.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

.

[+Juicepig]

your swag is too good... put stuff in there so that people have no choice but to trade up

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

Are there any cachers left after that list?!?!

[+fox-and-the-hound]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

.

 

This is a bit more severe than I'd suggest, but it does hit darn close to the target. First thing I would do is NOT announce that your cache has better than average stuff. The second thing I would do is make it a cache that requires a healthy bit of exercise for body and mind. We've found a funny coincidence in that our caches that require both of those still have great swag (sometimes much better than they started with) after a couple years with very little effort on our part short of good maintenance.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

.

 

This is a bit more severe than I'd suggest, but it does hit darn close to the target. First thing I would do is NOT announce that your cache has better than average stuff. The second thing I would do is make it a cache that requires a healthy bit of exercise for body and mind. We've found a funny coincidence in that our caches that require both of those still have great swag (sometimes much better than they started with) after a couple years with very little effort on our part short of good maintenance.

Exactly! I was, in my earlier post, writing from direct experience (and also from Divine Guidance received from the Chief Non-Corporeal Psychopomp of the First International Discount Church of Sioneva.)

 

For example, Sue and I own many high-terrain rating extreme caches, and also some very tough puzzle caches, and, in each of these caches, the quality of swag remains excellent, even over a number of years and across many finders.

 

Once you eliminate the people in the categories which I listed earlier, 99.99% of your bad swag problem is instantly eliminated. No one has ever argued with this fact. No one. Ever.

 

The only problem is that most folks are way too scared and timid to come out and explicitly say, in plain English, what I wrote in my earlier post, because they are afraid of offending people. As for myself, I never have any fear of offending idiots, poltroons and buffoons, and, in fact, I would think far less of myself if I were not roundly criticized by the idiots, fanatics, poltroons and buffoons of the world!

 

 

.

[+Vater_Araignee]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

.

 

This is a bit more severe than I'd suggest, but it does hit darn close to the target. First thing I would do is NOT announce that your cache has better than average stuff. The second thing I would do is make it a cache that requires a healthy bit of exercise for body and mind. We've found a funny coincidence in that our caches that require both of those still have great swag (sometimes much better than they started with) after a couple years with very little effort on our part short of good maintenance.

Exactly! I was, in my earlier post, writing from direct experience (and also from Divine Guidance received from the Chief Non-Corporeal Psychopomp of the First International Discount Church of Sioneva.)

 

For example, Sue and I own many high-terrain rating extreme caches, and also some very tough puzzle caches, and, in each of these caches, the quality of swag remains excellent, even over a number of years and across many finders.

 

Once you eliminate the people in the categories which I listed earlier, 99.99% of your bad swag problem is instantly eliminated. No one has ever argued with this fact. No one. Ever.

 

The only problem is that most folks are way too scared and timid to come out and explicitly say, in plain English, what I wrote in my earlier post, because they are afraid of offending people. As for myself, I never have any fear of offending idiots, poltroons and buffoons, and, in fact, I would think far less of myself if I were not roundly criticized by the idiots, fanatics, poltroons and buffoons of the world!

 

 

.

Oh, so I'm not coming out and saying it when I assume that others assume that number runners are a synonym for Red Vs. Blues favorite insult ending in cktard?

I know I know... Do you know how to spell assume!

[+geomann1]

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

Are there any cachers left after that list?!?!

 

Great idea, I don't fall on that list, but then again I never trade because as an adult over 30 with a job, there is little in any cache that I need or want. My kids and others love to trade, but then I don't think most want to discourage families from caching to protect swag.

 

Yes many cachers are irresponsible and trade down or just take, but many cache owners are irresponsible by not taking care of their caches and getting rid of the junk and replishing.

[+Star*Hopper]

...As for myself, I never have any fear of offending idiots, poltroons and buffoons, and, in fact, I would think far less of myself if I were not roundly criticized by the idiots, fanatics, poltroons and buffoons of the world!

Me either. If ya do it right, most of 'em don't even know they've been offed.

 

But I'm right there with ya (OP) about folks acting like they're treasure chests & it's finders keepers! I've also been pretty taken aback by the attitude I've seen expressed here several times, that if you put out a cache filled with nice swag, then it somehow becomes your God-sworn duty to keep it maintained & re-stock it & with more nice swag every time the ne'er-do-wells have robbed it clean or replaced it all with trache (as a 'kind' word), ad infinitum!! Like, it's your responsibility! Well, how about some responsibility from the ones who actually turn 'em into the trache-bins they become?

 

The whole thing is a matter of integrity & character. Best description I've seen that addresses it:

"The kind of person you are when no one is watching." Unfortunately, Geocaching is a game that includes lots of opportunity to test it -- and so very many fail.

 

~*

[+Star*Hopper]

"...Yes many cachers are irresponsible and trade down or just take, but many cache owners are irresponsible by not taking care of their caches and getting rid of the junk and replishing."

 

See? Even while I wrote.

 

And.....how is it that this somehow comes across as the Owner being the greater offender?

 

That's just wrong....on more levels than I have time to count!

~*

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Great idea, I don't fall on that list, but then again I never trade because as an adult over 30 with a job, there is little in any cache that I need or want. My kids and others love to trade, but then I don't think most want to discourage families from caching to protect swag.

 

Yes many cachers are irresponsible and trade down or just take, but many cache owners are irresponsible by not taking care of their caches and getting rid of the junk and replishing.

I have marked in bold the statement above to which I will be responding below.

 

I have never seen it as my responsibility, as a cache owner, to get rid of the junk that idiots and buffoons emplace in my caches, nor to refresh such caches with high-quality swag. As far as I am concerned -- and I know from great past experience that I speak here for the vast majority of posters on the forum and also for the vast majority of cachers -- if the local geocaching community wishes to remove all the good swag from one of my caches and replace it with broken McToys, leaky cracked pens, water softener pellets and dried chunks of doggie poop, that is their choice entirely, and it is not my job to rescue them from the consequences of their thoughtless actions, nor to remediate the damage that they have done. They have made their own swimming pool, and now let them swim in it!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

"...Yes many cachers are irresponsible and trade down or just take, but many cache owners are irresponsible by not taking care of their caches and getting rid of the junk and replishing."

 

See? Even while I wrote.

 

And.....how is it that this somehow comes across as the Owner being the greater offender?

 

That's just wrong....on more levels than I have time to count!

~*

Yes! Agreed! Amazing! Thank you for having said, twice, what needed to be said once again!

[sdarken]

I guess I'm probably just going to say the same thing that everyone else has already covered but....

 

I know lots of cachers and none of them carry trade items worth $5. I would say that most cachers I know dont even carry items worth $1. When I fill my caches with dollar store items, the swag is a better quality than 99% of caches I visit.

 

Swag degredation is virtually an unavoidable fact of geocaching if your cache is accessible to the majority of geocachers. (High terrain & puzzle caches have the benefits mentioned in an earlier comment).

 

If I put a handful of $1 items in a cache, someone might take it (without a trade) or trade one for two 50 cent items. Another person might take one of those 50 cent items or trade for a couple of 25 cent items. These kind of scenarios dont have to happen too often before a cache full of good things becomes a cache full of junk. These are not "underbelly of mankind" situations (as was suggested in another thread), just a natural progression.

 

Once you place a cache you pretty much have to give up all control over the swag and just expect that it's going to become pretty junky fairly quickly.

[+The VanDucks]

The same thing happens to all our caches too; when I go to check on them the good stuff is usually long gone and the trash remains; but we place them for the enjoyment of reading the logs, not for trading expensive swag.

 

When we go out caching, we leave small duckies, bought online from Oriental Trading for 50 cents each or so, and I often order small geocaching pins with the logo of our local club to leave in caches, especially when we travel out of our own area. I don't care about taking something of equal value, but I hope any children finding our swag will enjoy finding a little something to keep.

[+KJcachers]

I just like the fact that somebody else on here watches Red vs Blue!

 

BTW, I drive a Warthog or is it a Puma???

[+Ambush Bug]

I just like the fact that somebody else on here watches Red vs Blue!

 

BTW, I drive a Warthog or is it a Puma???

 

That's true... I never really expected to see a RVB reference here. Maybe a Lake Woebegon reference, but not RVB...

[+undertree]

When I am caching I rarely take anything. I do leave some laminated signature cards. Some of these signature cards have coins or tokens laminated into them. The coins and tokens are worth from about .50 to over $2.00. I also make some signature cards that have stamps laminated into them. The stamp ones don't cost much. I also leave DVD movies of me and my kids caching.

 

You can tell if I really enjoyed the cache based on the item I left. If its a regular cache and I liked it, I will leave a DVD. If it is a small and I really liked it I will leave one of the token or coin cards. If it was good I will leave a lesser card. Some times its TNLN.

 

The cache nearest my house, OK its in the driveway, sometimes is filled with pretty good stuff, sometimes it turns to junk, then goes back the other way.

 

Don't sweat the small stuff.

[+briansnat]

That is actually some really good advice. I mean, it IS a mystery cache, but not a very difficult one. I may try to add some elements that filter out the numbers players.

 

No assurances that it will work, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!

 

You can make it members only and that will cut down on visitors. Cache depletion is just part of the game. I think most of the time its done out of ignorance rather than any sense of greed, but it does happen. I think in the end you'd be happier however if you don't worry about it and either replenish your cache from time to time, or just let it take its course.

[+StarBrand]

Best advice I have is to lead by example. Trade up or trade even - always. Stock your caches well and when you do a maintenance run- restock them well. If a cache you find is lacking a decent trade - leave something and take nothing. It won't stop the treasure grabbers but it does set an example to be followed. If if only one other cacher changes thier mind based on your actions - the activity is better for it.

[CoyoteRed]

I find it disheartening that some many folks simply accept a core element of this hobby as not that important. Sure, I've seen trinket degradation from the beginning. Folks "buy" a $5.00 item out of the cache for a pair of ordinary quarters. It disgusted me then as it does now. "I forgot my swag bag, but I'll go ahead and take something." "I didn't bring a trade item, so I'll put a better one in the next cache." Etc.

 

If I forget a trade item, I don't trade. Period. If I don't have an item I feel is worthy of a trade, I don't take that item. Period.

 

Sure, I rarely trade. But when I go "Oh, neat!" I'll drop something in worth about the same or better, or I don't take it. I don't have a problem leaving it for the next guy. If it's so important that I have to have it I'll return to the cache. But you know what? I never have. Must not have been that important after all.

 

Any who...

 

While it is inevitable that you will get some cachers who will not trade up the cache doesn't have to degrade an appreciable amount. Unfortunately, it takes a bit of work. You do have to replenish. A few kind souls will do it for you, but it's getting rarer.

 

You might try adding something to the description like, "Do you practice Trading Kindly? Tell us what you took and what you left. Thanks." It's a bit of social arm-twisting without sounding too much like a grumpy old man.

 

If you're into ALR's (I'm not) you could make it a requirement.

 

Just don't be surprised when some folks will unabashedly said they've taken a $10.00 item and left a piece of chewed gum. ...or a pine cone if your cache is in a pine forest. ... seashell in a beach cache. ...rock from the quarry the cache is in. ...etc.

 

Like StarBrand says, lead by example. Always trade kindly. Note my signature.

[+ImaMystic]

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

Once you eliminate the people in the categories which I listed earlier, 99.99% of your bad swag problem is instantly eliminated. No one has ever argued with this fact. No one. Ever.

 

The only problem is that most folks are way too scared and timid to come out and explicitly say, in plain English, what I wrote in my earlier post, because they are afraid of offending people. As for myself, I never have any fear of offending idiots, poltroons and buffoons, and, in fact, I would think far less of myself if I were not roundly criticized by the idiots, fanatics, poltroons and buffoons of the world!

 

I have nothing to add here on geocaching swag. I'm would not presume to know this 'activity' but I do understand that even in jest this is offensive. Which is your point right to jest ...

 

There was a man in the twentieth century who believed the world would be a better place if all the ... shall i just go back to your list of people [ the offensive geocachers] that need to be eliminated from the sport

 

Zieg Heil ... call me any name you wish ...what I really wanna know is will you hold the oven door open before you escort me in?

[+sbell111]

Does that mean that we can lock this thread now?

[sdarken]

There was a man in the twentieth century who believed the world would be a better place if all the ... shall i just go back to your list of people [ the offensive geocachers] that need to be eliminated from the sport

 

Zieg Heil ... call me any name you wish ...what I really wanna know is will you hold the oven door open before you escort me in?

 

What a strange comment. There was no suggestion that those groups of cachers should be exterminated. Rather that those are the groups that cause issues with swag.

 

I'm going to cite Godwin's Law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

[+Castle Mischief]

 

I have nothing to add here on geocaching swag. I'm would not presume to know this 'activity' but I do understand that even in jest this is offensive. Which is your point right to jest ...

 

There was a man in the twentieth century who believed the world would be a better place if all the ... shall i just go back to your list of people [ the offensive geocachers] that need to be eliminated from the sport

 

Zieg Heil ... call me any name you wish ...what I really wanna know is will you hold the oven door open before you escort me in?

 

Kind of throwing out the straw-man baby with the slippery slope there aren't you?

[+ImaMystic]

There was a man in the twentieth century who believed the world would be a better place if all the ... shall i just go back to your list of people [ the offensive geocachers] that need to be eliminated from the sport

 

Zieg Heil ... call me any name you wish ...what I really wanna know is will you hold the oven door open before you escort me in?

 

What a strange comment. There was no suggestion that those groups of cachers should be exterminated. Rather that those are the groups that cause issues with swag.

 

I'm going to cite Godwin's Law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

 

my intent is not to be offensive ... the suggestions to the OP were helpful to his dilemma

... I'm just really disheartened by the human condition and I haven't even begun. I reacted to the suggestion that there's a heirarchy in geocaching. I have sooo much to learn here ... like straw babys, bath water , slippery slopes, and godwin's law.

I better stick to Off-Topic ... where my foot will look quite natural in my mouth.

Edited January 23, 2009 by ImaMystic

[8ball9ball]

Most likely, this thread went south real fast.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Well, since you have asked:

 

First, I long ago let go of attaching importance to the swag that folks leave in our caches, for I have observed, as have many others, that in general, most geoachers tend to leave junk. Yes, that does mean that they have some serious mental and emotional problems, as well as problems with ethics, but frankly, that is their problem and not mine.

 

Next, if it is REALLY important to you that the quality of swag in your cache remain at a very high level, emplace your cache as a very difficult extreme terrain cache, and even better, also raise the Difficulty level as well by making it a tough puzzle cache. Experience has shown that this will get rid of 99% of your problems with junk swag, because the pre-selection process, aka pre-screening process, imposed by the high terrain rating and the high difficulty rating will eliminate 99% of geocachers who fall into the following categories (and it is they who cause all the problems):

• families with children
  
• young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present
  
• cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control
  
• cachers who lack patience
  
• cachers who lack focus
  
• cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD
  
• cachers who are very stupid
  

Hope this helps!

 

[snip...]

 

Once you eliminate the people in the categories which I listed earlier, 99.99% of your bad swag problem is instantly eliminated. No one has ever argued with this fact. No one. Ever.

 

The only problem is that most folks are way too scared and timid to come out and explicitly say, in plain English, what I wrote in my earlier post, because they are afraid of offending people. As for myself, I never have any fear of offending idiots, poltroons and buffoons, and, in fact, I would think far less of myself if I were not roundly criticized by the idiots, fanatics, poltroons and buffoons of the world!

 

I have nothing to add here on geocaching swag. I'm would not presume to know this 'activity' but I do understand that even in jest this is offensive. Which is your point right to jest ...

 

There was a man in the twentieth century who believed the world would be a better place if all the ... shall i just go back to your list of people [ the offensive geocachers] that need to be eliminated from the sport

 

Zieg Heil ... call me any name you wish...

 

Hmmm... sounds like you are one of those folks who did not like the fact that I stated the truth so plainly and explicitly! As I have said in the past, I would not consider myself a success as a human being unless certain people in certain groups disapproved loudly of my words and my behavior! So, thank you! Thank you very much! I appreciate it. You are a perfect part of a perfect world, doing exactly the most perfect thing that you can do at this moment, and I appreciate and celebrate that, as do Divinity and Being.

 

And... more importantly:

Amazing! Your post was only the 30th in the thread, and yet you managed to invoke Godwin's Law already! Good work!

...what I really wanna know is will you hold the oven door open before you escort me in?

I am not exactly sure what you were trying to say here, but I think you just invited me to dinner and you want to cook the dinner in the oven. Well, thanks for inviting me to join you for dinner, but I tend to eat a largely raw diet (mostly raw animal foods), and thus I eat very little in the way of cooked foods, although I must admit that I do occasionally love to indulge in eating cinnamon buns (made with real butter, not junk oils), pizza (made with real extra virgin olive oil) or MSG-free Chinese steamed dumplings! Yummy!

 

 

[edited to remove overly-lustful comments about delicious delectable adorable pizza made with real olive oil...]

.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+Renegade Knight]

...This experiment has made me like geocaching LESS, not more. Has anyone experienced this? Is there anything I can do without sounding like a jerk? ...

 

Are you perhaps confusing human nature of the half of humanity that's more evil or selfish than average with your enjoyment of caching?

 

You will alway have this problem. The problem being that you want to put a buch of free stuff in a box and hope that folks will do the right thing (as you define it) when nobody is looking. Which brings us to the fact that half of us have less integrety than average.

 

You can't force good trades. You can't force people to follow your theme after they find your cache. You can make it worth peoples while by rewarding them with a cache AFTER they follow your theme. Sometimes it pays to keep in mind that what separates people from lab rats in the area of motivation is...well hell, I'm sure I can come up with something.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Renegade Knight

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Ask any cop how many people will do the right thing when they think they're alone and can get away with something.

[+sbell111]

Ask any cop how many people will do the right thing when they think they're alone and can get away with something.

I'm thinking that the average LEO would have an unreasonable skewed view of such things. If you spend your days chasing down badness, you might not have a realistic view of the size of that subset of the population. Edited January 23, 2009 by sbell111

[+ImaMystic]

 

Well, thanks for inviting me to join you for dinner, Yummy!

 

overly-lustful comments about delicious delectable adorable pizza made with real olive oil...]

 

Vinny ... you can come eat pizza at at my casa any day ... The Pony makes a wicked one from scratch

 

Edited January 23, 2009 by ImaMystic

[+Vater_Araignee]

I just like the fact that somebody else on here watches Red vs Blue!

 

BTW, I drive a Warthog or is it a Puma???

Yer just makin things up.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

 

Well, thanks for inviting me to join you for dinner, Yummy!

 

overly-lustful comments about delicious delectable adorable pizza made with real olive oil...]

 

Vinny ... you can come eat pizza at at my casa any day ... The Pony makes a wicked one from scratch

 

mmmmm...! Thanks! Does the pony use real cheese and real extra virgin olive oil when making these pizzas?

 

And, hate to sound greedy, but... any possibility of MSG-free steamed Chinese dumplings as well?

 

.

[+Bubbles&Bonkers]

Okay, am I the only one offended? The other things on that list no one will own up to, but I cache with my family and love it! We have 4 kids and they're in it for the hunt and the swag. I am only in it for the hunt. What do I need with a slinky? When we trade swag we only ever trade the same or up. Never down. We would never leave used ball point pens or some of the other dopey things mentioned here. If we don't have something worth trading, we don't trade, no matter how much a kid wants it. Your game is not being brought down just because there are families out there.

[Dj Storm]

Placing the cache in a remote area doesn't guarantee that the cache contents will remain high quality. If an urban cache is filled with mcToys (or worse) after 10 finds, the remote one will have more-or-less the same fate after, let's say 20 finds. It only takes longer (years compared to days).

Point in case: in 2007 I found a cache with only 12 finds in 2+ years of existence. The only value item in it was a pre-euro austrian banknote, the rest were small trinkets in various stages of degradation. I left a small ship-in-a-bottle, took nothing because the cache was pretty empty. I was considering going back with more trinkets and getting the banknote (I collect coins, and thought the banknote would be a nice addition).

The next finder, 10.5 months later, took the banknote and the ship, left a kinder toy and a piece of plastic (fake mini sd card). Even if it's not my cache, I felt the same (I think) as you felt when reading about the swapping of the iDog and Joshua Tree for $3+trinkets.

[+Mredria]

Don't worry. Some of us are fascinated with the idea of people finding things you left and will continue visiting caches we've found to add more things to be taken away/broken/moved on/rot, whether you want to replenish or not.

 

BTW, it's not a Puma or a Warthog it's a Chupa-thingy.

[Clan Riffster]

Placing the cache in a remote area doesn't guarantee that the cache contents will remain high quality.

True, there are no guarantees. However, it's been a fairly decent contributing factor for my caches. The ones of mine that get visited three times a year, after 6 finds, will have a higher quality of swag than the much easier hides I own after 6 finds.

[+R.O.B]

Best advice I have is to lead by example. Trade up or trade even - always. Stock your caches well and when you do a maintenance run- restock them well. If a cache you find is lacking a decent trade - leave something and take nothing. It won't stop the treasure grabbers but it does set an example to be followed. If if only one other cacher changes thier mind based on your actions - the activity is better for it.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with StarBrand. When I first started caching 5 years ago there were 2 particular cachers whose caches I liked to find. Or to find caches after they were there because they always traded more in than they traded out. I decided that was the kind of cacher I wanted to be. To this day I have a very large box of swag items at the house. Nothing truly expensive...mostly $1.00 or under. But you would be amazed at what can be had for less than a dollar if you really look around and if you catch stuff on clearance.

I think of it as the cost of doing business that the swag will be degraded. But I think of replenishing my caches and other caches I find as the cost of doing business also. I get enjoyment out of filling up ammo cans and since enjoyment is why I cache, that's what I do.

 

A full ammo can is a happy ammo can.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I've been geocaching on-and-off since 2001, back when there were about half a dozen caches in GA. You had to drive for a half an hour to get to the closest one! But I’d never gotten serious about it, partially because although I have enjoyed some of the hunts and cool locations, finding a cache filled with old band-aids, fifteen cents, and half a refrigerator magnet has always depressed me. It's just been sort of rare that I've found a box that cachers clearly had been leaving items as good or better than what they had gotten out.

 

So, I finally decided to start my own cache. I put considerable effort into it, and had been saving cool items to leave in the cache for years. Nothing worth more than five bucks, but no junk, either. I wanted to try an experiment and have a cache with "only good stuff". I felt that hopefully a cache with a theme of having quality items would encourage people to practice some stewardship and leave as good or better than they got. I knew I would probably have to restock it eventually, which I don't mind.

 

Being my first cache, and being excited about it, I checked it every day. One cacher took some new packaged Pez dispensers, and left three used ball-point pens. Another took a harmonica, and left nothing. One cacher left an awesome item, but it was taken the next day. Now after a week, and just eight visits, most of the good stuff is gone, and it's starting to empty out.

 

This experiment has made me like geocaching LESS, not more. Has anyone experienced this? Is there anything I can do without sounding like a jerk? I know people don’t always have a couple of bucks to spare on a cache item, (especially those that average three caches a day) so maybe I’m being too harsh? What can I put in my cache description to help the cache stay filled with “Good Stuff” without sounding like a grumpy old man?

It's an unfortunate part of caching, but there it is.

 

For the first couple of years I put out expensive caches... nice dry-boxes with $25-30. FTF prizes and $5-10. swag. I invested ~$80 each in my first 20 or so caches. I gave a bunch away like that at events. My motivation was to set an example, to try to get folks to invest in and maintain quality swag. All of the trade items I left were $5 or better.

 

Cost me a fortune, and other than a few "nice swag!" comments nobody noticed. Certainly they didn't follow my lead.

 

So I went with dollar-store stuff in my caches and now carry mostly $2-3. swag for trading... which I almost never do anymore.

 

The last blow was my two coin exchange caches... I lost 37 coins in a hurry to folks who left a quarter, or nothing at all, in exchange for a nice trackable geocoin. I'd put in valuable desirable coins and get coin-of-the-month-club junk in exchange... then someone would steal the junk!

 

Any caches I put out in the future will have cheap kids toys in them.

 

Enjoy the trip, the location, the hunt, because there won't be anything in them worth having!

Edited January 24, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+TEAM HARTSOCK]

 

[*] families with children

[*] young cachers caching on their own, without adults over age 30 present

[*] cachers who lack self-discipline and/or self-control

[*] cachers who lack patience

[*] cachers who lack focus

[*] cachers with poor attention span or with severe ADHD

[*] cachers who are very stupid

Hope this helps!

 

.

 

Think I screwed up the quotes on this one but anyway....I take an exception to the first item on the list. We are a family of 5 and I am constantly on the kids to make sure that they trade evenly or up, plus I have drilled into them the fact that everything needs to be replaced back exactly as we have found it or better. I have tried hard to teach them to be responsible in caching and being considerate to the next cacher that comes along plus to respect the cache's owner. I realize that not all families do this, but at the same time, there seems to be an attitude that families with children ruin the sport of this all. I am sure some do, but there are many who act better than some of the adult cachers.

[+undertree]

Okay, am I the only one offended? The other things on that list no one will own up to, but I cache with my family and love it! We have 4 kids and they're in it for the hunt and the swag. I am only in it for the hunt. What do I need with a slinky? When we trade swag we only ever trade the same or up. Never down. We would never leave used ball point pens or some of the other dopey things mentioned here. If we don't have something worth trading, we don't trade, no matter how much a kid wants it. Your game is not being brought down just because there are families out there.

 

Come on are you really offended by a forum post? I have 6 kids and some like to cache with me. I have produced a DVD of me and some of my kids caching. The movie is traded into caches that we like.

 

Life is too short to be offended by that post. We know that some families are not very fair. I also have been known to get to the car and someone has an extra McToy. Oh crap. My feelings are that my trades make most caches better. I rarely want anything unless it is a sig item. I leave some pretty cool sig items myself. We almost always only trade new items. That being new in the package. You can really get good deals on items and possibly get nice items for .50 cents and they look like many $3-$5 items.

 

When caching with several kids one of the things you should try is to draw numbers and have only 1 or 2 kids trade at each cache. My children are used to sharing and taking turns.