A Scary Thought...

[+Sioneva]

Somebody run the numbers on this for me. Are you more likely to die from a bomb in a geocache or from getting electrocuted by your computer while posting to these forums?

 

Maybe a geocache could be rigged to explode if someone posts to the forums.

 

Let me think about it.

[bmn]

I know this might be unappropriated for a thread but it came to me and this is why I will never be the FTF.

 

What if, someone rigged a ammo box to go off (explode) when someone opened it?

 

It came to me last night!

 

Now I know that no one that is apart of the geocaching community would ever do this, but could it happen?

 

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

 

Many of you have brought up IP logging and such and then say "oh, but what about libraries and proxies, and <insert stuff here>." Have you ever heard of a MAC address? People who WOULD post it, would probably NOT realize about a MAC address and therefore would not know how to spoof it or change it. Libraries and proxies keeps logs of who access their computers or network.

 

So this sounds good and all but think about this:

 

If they're dumb enough to put the bomb down, the will have no idea about a MAC address and therefore WILL publish it. Still, I'd say don't worry about it.

[+tozainamboku]

Chances are...the toolbelt lost last week is more likely to hit me in the head on re-entry.

 

Well that did it. I was out caching today in Ahmanson Ranch northwest of Los Angeles and was watching my GPS as I got closer to the cache. 100 ft, 90 ft, 80 ft, then two loud booms. Oh not my luck to find the boobytrapped cache with the motion detector. I hit the ground.

 

Then it occured to me. The weather in Florida must be bad and the shuttle was diverted to Edwards AFB. Whoo, good thing it wasn't the exploding geocache.

 

I began to get up, but then I froze. If the shuttle was coming down here, could the toolbelt be far behind?

[+wimseyguy]

I'm afraid of posters who quote posts with broken

strings.

Edited December 1, 2008 by wimseyguy

[+pppingme]

Many of you have brought up IP logging and such and then say "oh, but what about libraries and proxies, and <insert stuff here>." Have you ever heard of a MAC address? People who WOULD post it, would probably NOT realize about a MAC address and therefore would not know how to spoof it or change it. Libraries and proxies keeps logs of who access their computers or network.

There are several faults with this idea.

 

1 - MAC addresses don't mean anything past the first router and aren't transmitted past that unless some javascript or something attempts to capture it and transmit it as part of the data

2 - MAC addresses can easily be faked

3 - MAC addresses don't get transmitted through a proxy server

4 - There is no registry or tracking for MAC addresses, no ownership databases, knowing it still doesn't get you any closer to the user unless you have previous traffic, and since they are so easy to fake, you still can't prove thats the user

5 - There is no validation for MAC addresses, so even if you found the equipment, you still couldn't prove that equipment generated the traffic (again, can easily be faked)

6 - I can pull up in the parking lot of my library and wifi on with no validation (prove I was here?), so what if the library tracked the traffic, there is no way to link it to me

7 - See #6 for any unprotected or public wifi

8 - Your note about proxies keeping logs, thats a specific feature of most anonymous proxies (not logging), and even if they did, its rare that a MAC address is included

9 - There are at least two popular alternatives to conventional proxy servers, neither of which uses or transmits MAC addresses, and are impossible to detect, even if your looking for all the tell-tale signs of a proxy server

 

Mac addresses are for all purposes meaningless as a means of authentication (proving a user).

[+Grigorii Rasputin]

I solve both worries by caching with a friend.

 

 

Better yet.... GET YOUR FRIEND TO OPEN THE CACHE!!!!!

 

Grigorii Rasputin

http://grigoriirasputin.wordpress.com

http://www.glass-cockpit.org

[+Magnesium]

I have a carry-concealed pistol permit. I usually empty the clip into the cache, then open it. Sure it's a waste of expensive ammo and it usually damages a few of the Mc-toys, but I don't have to worry about a booby-trapped cache !

 

Gee, I didn't think they allowed Guns in the People' Republic of New York!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

There has been at least one booby-trapped cache. I know because I rigged it!

 

BubbaCache, a youth minister at his church, told me that he was taking a busload of teens to a certain cache behind an abandoned Civil War era cemetery way out in the sticks at midnight one Halloween.

 

Unbeknownst to him that set off a flurry of phone calls wherein various tricks were considered. Moonsilver reminded me that there was a fireworks stand open year-round, so that was all the info I needed.

 

Radio shack sells micro-switches and battery packs, WalMart sells green string and igniters for model rockets. Oh yeah.

 

Shopping done we head for the cemetery before dark to lay our trap.

 

The cache is embedded in a Halloween-style rubber human head in the fork of a tree, so I ran a string from it through the woods to a nearby clearing and attached it with a micro-switch, battery pack and igniters to the fuses of four boxes of 60-shot skyrockets.

 

We found that there were only three ways to leave the cache site that didn't require a bulldozer and set trip strings across all of them attached to strands of 100 firecrackers.

 

We set up to watch from nearby bushes.

 

About ten o'clock we see flashlights coming down the trail. Oh No! If any cacher but the expected group of kids touches that head they're in for one hell of a surprise and our ambush will be spoiled! Turns out it's three Mom's, come to set up a surprise for the kids! They had various noise-makers, including a length of rubber hose and an aerosol boat horn.

 

We placed one Mom with the hose off in the woods along the ingress trail. Blow softly through it and it makes this eery low moaning sound that they'd hear while coming through the cemetery.

 

The Mom's with the boat horn set up along the trail. They would wait until the kids passed by and tripped the fireworks and scattered, then let loose from behind with the horn.

 

So we're all set up when here come more flashlights! This time it's two more Mom's, planning to jump out and holler "Boo" at the kids. We adopted them into our ambush plan and go move their cars up the road so they can't be seen by the bus coming in.

 

Gotta love Southern women, out in the woods in the middle of the night to have fun with their kids, strange men and explosives!

 

Finally the bus arrives. We hear the kid's nervous giggling as they pass through the cemetery, girls "Eeek" and the boys attempting bravado when the Mom moans through that hose, they're not about to admit with girls around that this place gives them the creeps.

 

About thirty teens arrive at ground zero and flashlight beams finally land upon the bloody head. The girl who found it won't touch it, so one of the boys grabs it and their world lights up with skyrockets! The group runs in different directions but every way they go they set off hundreds of firecrackers. Mom goes to blasting that boat horn... it was mass panic and confusion, funniest thing I've ever seen!

Edited December 1, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+WatchDog2020]

I have a carry-concealed pistol permit. I usually empty the clip into the cache, then open it. Sure it's a waste of expensive ammo and it usually damages a few of the Mc-toys, but I don't have to worry about a booby-trapped cache !

 

Gee, I didn't think they allowed Guns in the People' Republic of New York!

 

I live in New York State and it takes 5 hours to drive to NYC. We have more guns and cows than people. Please do not lump us with New York City where it takes an act of god to own a legal gun.

[+The Jester]

There has been at least one booby-trapped cache. I know because I rigged it!

 

BubbaCache, a youth minister at his church, told me that he was taking a busload of teens to a certain cache behind an abandoned Civil War era cemetery way out in the sticks at midnight one Halloween.

 

Unbeknownst to him that set off a flurry of phone calls wherein various tricks were considered. Moonsilver reminded me that there was a fireworks stand open year-round, so that was all the info I needed.

 

Radio shack sells micro-switches and battery packs, WalMart sells green string and igniters for model rockets. Oh yeah.

 

Shopping done we head for the cemetery before dark to lay our trap.

 

The cache is embedded in a Halloween-style rubber human head in the fork of a tree, so I ran a string from it through the woods to a nearby clearing and attached it with a micro-switch, battery pack and igniters to the fuses of four boxes of 60-shot skyrockets.

 

We found that there were only three ways to leave the cache site that didn't require a bulldozer and set trip strings across all of them attached to strands of 100 firecrackers.

 

We set up to watch from nearby bushes.

 

About ten o'clock we see flashlights coming down the trail. Oh No! If any cacher but the expected group of kids touches that head they're in for one hell of a surprise and our ambush will be spoiled! Turns out it's three Mom's, come to set up a surprise for the kids! They had various noise-makers, including a length of rubber hose and an aerosol boat horn.

 

We placed one Mom with the hose off in the woods along the ingress trail. Blow softly through it and it makes this eery low moaning sound that they'd hear while coming through the cemetery.

 

The Mom's with the boat horn set up along the trail. They would wait until the kids passed by and tripped the fireworks and scattered, then let loose from behind with the horn.

 

So we're all set up when here come more flashlights! This time it's two more Mom's, planning to jump out and holler "Boo" at the kids. We adopted them into our ambush plan and go move their cars up the road so they can't be seen by the bus coming in.

 

Gotta love Southern women, out in the woods in the middle of the night to have fun with their kids, strange men and explosives!

 

Finally the bus arrives. We hear the kid's nervous giggling as they pass through the cemetery, girls "Eeek" and the boys attempting bravado when the Mom moans through that hose, they're not about to admit with girls around that this place gives them the creeps.

 

About thirty teens arrive at ground zero and flashlight beams finally land upon the bloody head. The girl who found it won't touch it, so one of the boys grabs it and their world lights up with skyrockets! The group runs in different directions but every way they go they set off hundreds of firecrackers. Mom goes to blasting that boat horn... it was mass panic and confusion, funniest thing I've ever seen!

So where's the vido link? You did tape it didn't you?

[+StarBrand]

A little perspective here.

 

Say it has happened. Say it has happened a lot - for arguments sake - lets say it has happened 100 times in the past week alone.

 

According to the front page - there were 390,392 logs written. I'll just speculate that only 50% of those logs were finds - 195,196.

 

So my odds of it happening to me on any given cache that I opened last week were about 1900 to 1 againist me being a victim.

 

You'd buy a lottery ticket if your odds were only 1 in 1900 that you would lose - wouldn't you?? Fact is though that it DID NOT happen at all last week or the week before or last year or...........

[+Renegade Knight]

...Has anyone else had these thoughts?

Yup. I've also had thoughts of being hit my a metoer. I'm not sure if that would be cool, or just kill me. Worse I'm not sure if I'd get to keep the meteor (assuming I could find it after it gave me a bruise/burn).

 

So far I think more people have actually been hit by meteors than have had a cache do what you were thinking of.

[+chuckwagon101]

If something like this really worries you, just.............Look for a cache with a Big Pile Of Sticks!!

 

It is a known scientific fact that anyone that goes near a Big Pile Of Sticks cache would never do harm to a living thing!

 

HEY! It's a FACT! Look it up!!

[Trinity's Crew]

Placing a bomb cache MAY curb the enthusiasm of some FTF hounds, but I doubt it. They are relentless!

 

Besides, why just worry about a new cache being a bomb? Anyone could replace an existing cache with a bomb at any time. I mean if you're gonna worry, you may as well worry about ALL of the caches you find, right?

[bmn]

Many of you have brought up IP logging and such and then say "oh, but what about libraries and proxies, and <insert stuff here>." Have you ever heard of a MAC address? People who WOULD post it, would probably NOT realize about a MAC address and therefore would not know how to spoof it or change it. Libraries and proxies keeps logs of who access their computers or network.

There are several faults with this idea.

 

1 - MAC addresses don't mean anything past the first router and aren't transmitted past that unless some javascript or something attempts to capture it and transmit it as part of the data

2 - MAC addresses can easily be faked

3 - MAC addresses don't get transmitted through a proxy server

4 - There is no registry or tracking for MAC addresses, no ownership databases, knowing it still doesn't get you any closer to the user unless you have previous traffic, and since they are so easy to fake, you still can't prove thats the user

5 - There is no validation for MAC addresses, so even if you found the equipment, you still couldn't prove that equipment generated the traffic (again, can easily be faked)

6 - I can pull up in the parking lot of my library and wifi on with no validation (prove I was here?), so what if the library tracked the traffic, there is no way to link it to me

7 - See #6 for any unprotected or public wifi

8 - Your note about proxies keeping logs, thats a specific feature of most anonymous proxies (not logging), and even if they did, its rare that a MAC address is included

9 - There are at least two popular alternatives to conventional proxy servers, neither of which uses or transmits MAC addresses, and are impossible to detect, even if your looking for all the tell-tale signs of a proxy server

 

Mac addresses are for all purposes meaningless as a means of authentication (proving a user).

1 - I'm not one hundred percent sure about that but even so, it means that router can find the person.

2 - I know they can be faked I said that.

3 - I know that, but the IP does.

4-7 The point is not "We're saved because of MAC". It's "it's still not safe because of the idiots wouldn't even know about IPs"

8 - Actually, you're wrong.

9 - ....

[+pppingme]

Many of you have brought up IP logging and such and then say "oh, but what about libraries and proxies, and <insert stuff here>." Have you ever heard of a MAC address? People who WOULD post it, would probably NOT realize about a MAC address and therefore would not know how to spoof it or change it. Libraries and proxies keeps logs of who access their computers or network.

There are several faults with this idea.

 

1 - MAC addresses don't mean anything past the first router and aren't transmitted past that unless some javascript or something attempts to capture it and transmit it as part of the data

2 - MAC addresses can easily be faked

3 - MAC addresses don't get transmitted through a proxy server

4 - There is no registry or tracking for MAC addresses, no ownership databases, knowing it still doesn't get you any closer to the user unless you have previous traffic, and since they are so easy to fake, you still can't prove thats the user

5 - There is no validation for MAC addresses, so even if you found the equipment, you still couldn't prove that equipment generated the traffic (again, can easily be faked)

6 - I can pull up in the parking lot of my library and wifi on with no validation (prove I was here?), so what if the library tracked the traffic, there is no way to link it to me

7 - See #6 for any unprotected or public wifi

8 - Your note about proxies keeping logs, thats a specific feature of most anonymous proxies (not logging), and even if they did, its rare that a MAC address is included

9 - There are at least two popular alternatives to conventional proxy servers, neither of which uses or transmits MAC addresses, and are impossible to detect, even if your looking for all the tell-tale signs of a proxy server

 

Mac addresses are for all purposes meaningless as a means of authentication (proving a user).

1 - I'm not one hundred percent sure about that but even so, it means that router can find the person.

2 - I know they can be faked I said that.

3 - I know that, but the IP does.

4-7 The point is not "We're saved because of MAC". It's "it's still not safe because of the idiots wouldn't even know about IPs"

8 - Actually, you're wrong.

9 - ....

1 - The "first" router is probably being run by someone that doesn't even know (think home users) and very few routers track MAC to IP for more than a few minutes and rarely log that info

3 - There is no guarantee of that nor is it required by protocol, and in fact an "anonymous proxy" will strip IP.

8 - Years of being a network admin and designer and holding one of the highest Cisco certs, Redhat cert, and for kicks even a bunch of papers from Microsoft as well as having contributed to squid and having more implementations of it than I can count guarantee's me otherwise

Edited December 1, 2008 by Potato Finder

[GOF and Bacall]

Ok guys, you both know more about computers and the internet thingy than I do. Odds are I can still access the site, create an account, and get a cache published without leaving a trail traceable to me. All it takes is cash. Still leaves us at the point where it is almost infinitesimally unlikely that a cache will blow up in your face.

[CacheNCarryMA]

I know this might be unappropriated for a thread but it came to me and this is why I will never be the FTF.

 

What if, someone rigged a ammo box to go off (explode) when someone opened it?

 

It came to me last night!

 

Now I know that no one that is apart of the geocaching community would ever do this, but could it happen?

 

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

 

What does being FTF have to do with it? What's to stop a mad bomber from waiting until there is a FTF, and then rigging up the cache with an explosive?

 

And why stop at geocaches when a mad bomber could just put a bomb in your mailbox or under your car?

[+Packanack]

I think this is the single most ridiculous thread I have ever read. I think the OP is pulling a lot of leg here.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Packanack

[+uxorious]

This thread makes me wonder if Edgar Montrose is a Geocacher???

[GOF and Bacall]

I think this is the single most ridiculous thread I have ever read. I think the OP is pulling a lot of leg here.

 

You think?

 

This thread makes me wonder if Edgar Montrose is a Geocacher???

 

He'd give it one and a half thumbs up.

[Dinoprophet]

I think this is the single most ridiculous thread I have ever read. I think the OP is pulling a lot of leg here.

Maybe, but it's a subject almost as old as the game itself.

[+tozainamboku]

I think this is the single most ridiculous thread I have ever read. I think the OP is pulling a lot of leg here.

Maybe, but it's a subject almost as old as the game itself.

Thats a great thread. Not so much that it shows this subject is old, but the double post from jeremy might just be a winner for Longest-Standing Site Bug. And also that jeremy says

You don't even have to open the container if you don't want to - Just visiting the area where the cache is located is 90% of the fun anyway.

So apparently you can log a find without signing the log so long as you can say you were afraid that the cache might blow up if you open it.

[GOF and Bacall]

And also that jeremy says

You don't even have to open the container if you don't want to - Just visiting the area where the cache is located is 90% of the fun anyway.

So apparently you can log a find without signing the log so long as you can say you were afraid that the cache might blow up if you open it.

 

As long as I'm standing next to this pot someone want to pass me the spoon?

 

He points out that the journey is most of the fun. He doesn't say getting to claim a find without signing the log is acceptable. You can visit a cool new area without getting a smiley.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

And also that jeremy says

You don't even have to open the container if you don't want to - Just visiting the area where the cache is located is 90% of the fun anyway.

So apparently you can log a find without signing the log so long as you can say you were afraid that the cache might blow up if you open it.

 

As long as I'm standing next to this pot someone want to pass me the spoon?

 

He points out that the journey is most of the fun. He doesn't say getting to claim a find without signing the log is acceptable. You can visit a cool new area without getting a smiley.

 

Notice what Jeremy does NOT say... that angst and endless mindless arguing over minutia was EVER intended to be part of this game.

 

Relax, back away from the keyboard, go out and play!

[+TrailGators]

And also that jeremy says

You don't even have to open the container if you don't want to - Just visiting the area where the cache is located is 90% of the fun anyway.

So apparently you can log a find without signing the log so long as you can say you were afraid that the cache might blow up if you open it.

 

As long as I'm standing next to this pot someone want to pass me the spoon?

 

He points out that the journey is most of the fun. He doesn't say getting to claim a find without signing the log is acceptable. You can visit a cool new area without getting a smiley.

 

Notice what Jeremy does NOT say... that angst and endless mindless arguing over minutia was EVER intended to be part of this game.

 

Relax, back away from the keyboard, go out and play!

He wants people to see the big picture: The journey is the destination. - Dan Eldon Edited December 2, 2008 by TrailGators

[+gelfling6]

Okay, might as well toss my 2-cents in...

 

Suffice to say, there are a few loons out there, who would take a hobby, where people are getting outside, and away from the Television, Video games, and the computer (Yes, I know, call me a hypocrite.), and use it as a way to cause terror, pain, injury, death...

 

Point blank.... Why?

 

Why would someone , aside from spite, deliberately injure someone, at Random?

 

The only type I see, are those with a grudge, or cannot see the difference between fantasy video games, and reality.. Geocaching is NOT a video game.. To steal the line from an old Volkswagon commercial, there is no reset button.

 

Atleast I would hope no-one takes the game/search too seriously to become violent.. It kind of detracts from the real fun.

[+vw_k]

To steal the line from an old Volkswagon commercial, there is no reset button.

 

...and in the case of my old VW, no rear washer/wiper, no rear engine mount, no exterior trim, no trunk light, no doorcards, no fusebox cover......

[+WatchDog2020]

I just have to wonder if this thread is being watched by the Department of Homeland Security. Wait I have an idea.

 

GURL JVYY ARIRE SVTHER BHG BHE FRPERG PBQR

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

<snip>

Next, there useta be a well known 5/5 ALR extreme geocache not too far from here, just over the border into southwestern PA (published, of course, by Keystone... who else? ....sheesh!). The cache was a large ammo can fitted with a triggering device that would detect the opening of the ammo can, and the trigger device was attached to a small internal thermonuclear warhead that the cache owner had purchased at a military surplus store in the Shadyside section of Pittsburgh.

 

The additional logging requirement (ALR) for the cache was the stipulation that anyone wishing to claim a find must find a non-destructive way to open the ammo can without triggering the detonation of the thermonuclear warhead and must successfully sign the logbook and retrieve a secret code word displayed in the logbook. If I recall correctly, there were about five successful finders [see footnote #1] of this 5/5 ALR extreme cache, and then, one day, the inevitable happened: a paperless and somewhat brainless (and now bodiless as well) cacher who had not read the cache description page happened upon the cache and opened the ammo can without employing any precautions, thus detonating the nuclear warhead, and obliterating about a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness, rendering it into a hard glass-like mirrored surface surrounding the crater. The cache was archived shortly thereafter.

<snip>

Look... I SAID I was sorry... stop dragging it out already!

Sheesh...! Your reserves of defensiveness and denial (and no, denial is NOT a river in Egypt!) are inexhaustible! Didn't you at least learn one lesson from your little paperless-caching / refuse-to-read-the-description incident which ended up vaporizing over a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness landscape? Hello?

[+The Jester]

 

Sheesh...! Your reserves of defensiveness and denial (and no, denial is NOT a river in Egypt!) are inexhaustible! Didn't you at least learn one lesson from your little paperless-caching / refuse-to-read-the-description incident which ended up vaporizing over a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness landscape? Hello?

Only that little bit? Why all the fuss? No big loss...

[+KJcachers]

more caches have been blown up by police bombsquads than will ever be blown up by mad bombers!

Edited December 2, 2008 by KJcachers

[+Vartan84]

I was just thinking yesterday about the possibility of geobombs after hearing a story on NPR about 'sticky bombs' being on the rise in Iraq. Those are magnetic bombs that someone can quickly just put under your car in seconds and vanish, then when people go back to the car they can detonate it via a cell phone. It reminded me of magnetic micros.

 

I think there is extremely little risk that a cache in America could be used this way, because as someone said there are far more effective ways to terrorize than waiting for someone to open a box in the woods. However, that doesn't eliminate the risk for more public caches and, what I was thinking of, ones in foreign countries. There are numerous caches in Iraq and Afghanistan because of so many Americans there. If bad people got a hold of that sort of thing caches could be used for bad.

[+Sioneva]

Look... I SAID I was sorry... stop dragging it out already!

Sheesh...! Your reserves of defensiveness and denial (and no, denial is NOT a river in Egypt!) are inexhaustible! Didn't you at least learn one lesson from your little paperless-caching / refuse-to-read-the-description incident which ended up vaporizing over a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness landscape? Hello?

 

*sulk* No one was using it anyway. And I still don't buy the whole "rare duckbilled grouse habitat" premise. They looked like robins to ME.

[Clan Riffster]

Only that little bit? Why all the fuss? No big loss...

Agreed. It was Pennsylvania for Gaia's sake.

[+wimseyguy]

<snip>

Next, there useta be a well known 5/5 ALR extreme geocache not too far from here, just over the border into southwestern PA (published, of course, by Keystone... who else? ....sheesh!). The cache was a large ammo can fitted with a triggering device that would detect the opening of the ammo can, and the trigger device was attached to a small internal thermonuclear warhead that the cache owner had purchased at a military surplus store in the Shadyside section of Pittsburgh.

 

The additional logging requirement (ALR) for the cache was the stipulation that anyone wishing to claim a find must find a non-destructive way to open the ammo can without triggering the detonation of the thermonuclear warhead and must successfully sign the logbook and retrieve a secret code word displayed in the logbook. If I recall correctly, there were about five successful finders [see footnote #1] of this 5/5 ALR extreme cache, and then, one day, the inevitable happened: a paperless and somewhat brainless (and now bodiless as well) cacher who had not read the cache description page happened upon the cache and opened the ammo can without employing any precautions, thus detonating the nuclear warhead, and obliterating about a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness, rendering it into a hard glass-like mirrored surface surrounding the crater. The cache was archived shortly thereafter.

<snip>

Look... I SAID I was sorry... stop dragging it out already!

Sheesh...! Your reserves of defensiveness and denial (and no, denial is NOT a river in Egypt!) are inexhaustible! Didn't you at least learn one lesson from your little paperless-caching / refuse-to-read-the-description incident which ended up vaporizing over a square mile of Pennsylvania wilderness landscape? Hello?

SO that's what really happened in Centralia. I thought the whole underground coal mine fire story seemed a bit far-fetched.

[+Vater_Araignee]

I was just thinking yesterday about the possibility of geobombs after hearing a story on NPR about 'sticky bombs' being on the rise in Iraq. Those are magnetic bombs that someone can quickly just put under your car in seconds and vanish, then when people go back to the car they can detonate it via a cell phone. It reminded me of magnetic micros.

 

I think there is extremely little risk that a cache in America could be used this way, because as someone said there are far more effective ways to terrorize than waiting for someone to open a box in the woods. However, that doesn't eliminate the risk for more public caches and, what I was thinking of, ones in foreign countries. There are numerous caches in Iraq and Afghanistan because of so many Americans there. If bad people got a hold of that sort of thing caches could be used for bad.

That's funny because this subject was making me think of a way to rig a cache with a pay as you go phone to call me every time it was opened so I could say lie and say "you found the decoy!". The way I see it, if it has a log and swag and you fall for it then you deserve a DNF.

[GPSSignal]

I know this might be unappropriated for a thread but it came to me and this is why I will never be the FTF.

 

What if, someone rigged a ammo box to go off (explode) when someone opened it?

 

It came to me last night!

 

Now I know that no one that is apart of the geocaching community would ever do this, but could it happen?

 

Has anyone else had these thoughts?

I should probably have read the whole thread first before posting, but laziness... (also sorry for bringing up old topic)

My brother is really into this (geocaching) and got me into it a bit. I seem to always bring this up because it seems too easy to do.

 

My thoughts on reading this are... You're insane lol. What's to prevent someone from rigging an already existing cache with a bomb.

Also I would think that only someone a part of the geocaching community would do this. It's not exactly a targeted attack some terrorist from the middle east would spend years planning out. And there are so many hobbies and ways to just cause mayhem that you would probably be aware of/part of this to do it.

All you need to be is nuts I guess. Me thinks the unibomber was just ahead of his time. (They just didn't know the packages they were picking up were really geocaches)

 

One thing to note tho is that in general people (even the crazy ones) are generally nice. I'm always surprised that something like this hasn't happened before. For example, years back I was thinking about people near subways. What's to stop someone from just ... pushing someone onto the track right as the train comes. Or two people passing each other down a street. One could just attack or kill the other and you'd have no way to predict and/or stop it.

While it may occasionally happen, law enforcement seems pretty good at stopping individuals. And the idea of a group doing anything like this is unrealistic. There's nothing to gain. Unless they're after those coveted coins.

 

Now if someone did start doing it, there would be a drop off in the number of people looking for caches, (at least the non die-hards), for awhile. Once the guy is caught, and smart people have a tendency to not do these kind of things for no reason, geocaching would pick back up to normal levels.

 

It would probably be like the Washington DC sniper. Some people even out in California, (I'm assuming the same types of people who buy lotto tickets) were afraid that out of 350 million people would get shot while trying to get gas at the pumps.

 

All in all, like many have said, I presume, it may happen, but you're more likely to be killed by a hundred million different other things. Most likely falling down a cliff while trying to get to a geocache. (I know someone who did, but she managed to survive). As far as I know, the geocache itself didn't explode.

Edited March 18, 2009 by GPSSignal

[+DK Dogs]

From the terrorism classes I have taken, they say that they try to cause terror to mass numbers of people which would be their objective. One explosion in a cache would not be worth their time and effort. If they were going to strike with an explosive they would want to target large numbers of people. Not saying it couldnt happen as anything could happen, but not likely.

[CoyoteRed]

If someone wanted for the hobby of geocaching to go away, then they could plant several small bombs around the country in caches and blow them up. They would then issue a statement stating that more bombs are planted but will be triggered by opening them. Then send some tips into bomb squads about some real bombs in caches. Once the bomb squads confirm the existence of live bombs in geocaches then the authorities would pretty much shut the hobby down.

[GPSSignal]

The authorities couldn't shut the hobby down. First off it's world wide. Second it's not government run and they would have no authority to do anything. Thirdly, no one would listen to them anyway.

[sdarken]

If someone wanted for the hobby of geocaching to go away, then they could plant several small bombs around the country in caches and blow them up. They would then issue a statement stating that more bombs are planted but will be triggered by opening them. Then send some tips into bomb squads about some real bombs in caches. Once the bomb squads confirm the existence of live bombs in geocaches then the authorities would pretty much shut the hobby down.

 

While the government could, in theory, efffectively end geocaching by making it illegal (and attaching large fines to the activity), it seems highly unlikely (in the U.S) even in the scenario you describe. If a crazy bomber started blowing up baseball stadiums do you think the government would make baseball illegal? I wouldn't think so. We'd certainly see some temporary changes in geocaching during the scenario you described though.

 

As for putting bombs in caches, it seems incredibly unlikely though I've had several non-cachers suggest the same kinds of possibilities. For that scenario to play out I think it would have to involve an insane cacher with an axe to grind against the geocaching community (or a muggle with a similar issue). I think that would narrow the range of suspects down pretty quickly and I wouldn't imagine that person would go undetected for long.

Edited March 18, 2009 by sdarken

[CoyoteRed]

While the government could, in theory, efffectively end geocaching by making it illegal (and attaching large fines to the activity), it seems highly unlikely (in the U.S) even in the scenario you describe.

It almost happened here in South Carolina over a lot less nefarious activities. If it weren't for a large group of cachers who were able to get enough attention to stall the bill, caching would be a lot more sparse here than it is now.

 

Allow a bill to gain traction that would prohibit caches in certain areas without explicit written permission, a whisper campaign to key individuals in other agencies, and a good media campaign; and you'll have a fight on your hands to save your hobby. The evidence against us? A few photos and quotes taken out of context.

 

Given that real bombs are a lot more serious than a few misrepresentations, you do mental exercise on how it would go. Sure, it's far fetched, but like I said if someone wanted to do it, associating geocaching with bombs is the way to do it. Plant a few bombs and the government would do the rest.

[+briansnat]

For example, years back I was thinking about people near subways. What's to stop someone from just ... pushing someone onto the track right as the train comes.

Or two people passing each other down a street. One could just attack or kill the other and you'd have no way to predict and/or stop it.

 

Both happen - more than you realize. It's very hard to stop a random nutcase. Could one booby trap a geocache or geocaches? Sure. But with probably over 10 million cache finds since this sport started it hasn't happened once. A number of cachers have however been injured or killed in traffic accidents on the way to or back from caching though.

 

I'd worry more about buckling my seat belt than what might be in a geocache.

[+Nathan Wert]

There has been at least one booby-trapped cache. I know because I rigged it! .... it was mass panic and confusion, funniest thing I've ever seen!

 

Other than the above post I loved Vinny's post the best. I refuse to worry about something that's got such a small chance of happening (until it actually does).

[+Snoogans]

While the government could, in theory, efffectively end geocaching by making it illegal (and attaching large fines to the activity), it seems highly unlikely (in the U.S) even in the scenario you describe.

It almost happened here in South Carolina over a lot less nefarious activities. If it weren't for a large group of cachers who were able to get enough attention to stall the bill, caching would be a lot more sparse here than it is now.

 

Allow a bill to gain traction that would prohibit caches in certain areas without explicit written permission, a whisper campaign to key individuals in other agencies, and a good media campaign; and you'll have a fight on your hands to save your hobby. The evidence against us? A few photos and quotes taken out of context.

 

Given that real bombs are a lot more serious than a few misrepresentations, you do mental exercise on how it would go. Sure, it's far fetched, but like I said if someone wanted to do it, associating geocaching with bombs is the way to do it. Plant a few bombs and the government would do the rest.

 

Still pretty thin. Bomb making is hazardous hobby.

 

A real bomber would hardly waste their time on stopping geocaching and a bomb making hobbiest would just as easily blow hemselves up before they could carry out a plan on the scale you mention for a national ban to be enacted.

 

Sooner or later there could be a localized cache bomb, but a rash of cache bombs would be worth betting against.

[CoyoteRed]

Still pretty thin. Bomb making is hazardous hobby.

Yeah, so is rock climbing and skydiving. What's your point? Besides I know of a geocacher who has a felony bomb making conviction. I also know of several folks who have made bombs of various sizes who either didn't get caught or wasn't prosecuted for one reason or another. It's not as uncommon as you think. Oh, and they're still alive and with all of their body parts.

 

A real bomber would hardly waste their time on stopping geocaching and a bomb making hobbiest would just as easily blow hemselves up before they could carry out a plan on the scale you mention for a national ban to be enacted.

 

Sooner or later there could be a localized cache bomb, but a rash of cache bombs would be worth betting against.

Last point first, yeah, I'd bet against it ever happening. But, to your previous point, we're not talking about some goof all of a sudden picking geocaching to screw with. We're talking about an uber maggot. Someone dedicated to not just picking up caches one at a time, but attempting to completely destroy the hobby. If someone did attempt it, my money would be on his success.

 

...for a national ban to be enacted...

It wouldn't have to be a national ban. The Federal government wouldn't have to get involved. I see a snowball effect from one agency to another. It's a lot easier for a municipality to enact a ban. Agencies like parks and such can change policy in a day. Don't underestimate the pressure state and local politicians can bring to bear on those who would normally be receptive to caches on their wards. (a la, NPS and USF&WS lands.) Fear of litigation would also be a driving force.

 

Again, I agree the odds are greatly against it, but then again I never thought someone would try a limited state ban, either. If someone did attempt this route, I think the chances of success would be high.