"State" boundaries

[+G4UYG]

Using the Geocaching "states" for UK I am left wondering if there is a definitive of list which counties are in which "states"

I live on the Thames in Essex which could be in either South East England or East England. I'm sure I'm not the only one living on the edge so how can we check? And when looking for a cache in a "state" we need to hope that the owner knew where he was as well...

[+garyhoney]

Using the Geocaching "states" for UK I am left wondering if there is a definitive of list which counties are in which "states"

I live on the Thames in Essex which could be in either South East England or East England. I'm sure I'm not the only one living on the edge so how can we check? And when looking for a cache in a "state" we need to hope that the owner knew where he was as well...

 

Essex is in East of England, Kent Southeast England. somewhere there is a google overlay knocking around but I can't at present find the link. If you look at the bottom of my profile page you can see a static map of the regions.

 

 

Hope that helps

Edited September 2, 2008 by garyhoney

[+Lydford Locators]

If you look at the bottom of my profile page you can see a static map of the regions.

 

 

I'm confused now, when it was originally announced we were surprised that the south west was just Devon and Cornwall. Your map has a much larger area than that classed as south west. Was it changed?

[+Gushoneybun]

Using the Geocaching "states" for UK I am left wondering if there is a definitive of list which counties are in which "states"

I live on the Thames in Essex which could be in either South East England or East England. I'm sure I'm not the only one living on the edge so how can we check? And when looking for a cache in a "state" we need to hope that the owner knew where he was as well...

 

 

Yes it is here: http://geocaching.croaghan.com/GE/

[+Astartus]

I'm confused now, when it was originally announced we were surprised that the south west was just Devon and Cornwall. Your map has a much larger area than that classed as south west. Was it changed?

This might be my fault. The last image in garyhoney's profile is a map that I created for the use with GSAK and the FindStatsGen macro. When I looked for maps of the UK regions, I stumbled upon many different ones that had hardly any resemblance to the regions that GC.com used. So I took several maps and worked them all together.

 

Looking at the overlay for GE, it looks quite ok, but I'm not sure if this is official, as the maps of UK regions all looked totally different.

 

If users of GSAK could agree on using the outlines of the GE overlay, I could edit the map file for the FindStatsGen maro.

[+garyhoney]

I'm confused now, when it was originally announced we were surprised that the south west was just Devon and Cornwall. Your map has a much larger area than that classed as south west. Was it changed?

This might be my fault. The last image in garyhoney's profile is a map that I created for the use with GSAK and the FindStatsGen macro.

 

Not your fault at all Astartus I believe you used the official regions of the England (for England obviously) then split the South East. As these start to have elected bodies I suppose these will become the most familiar region definitions. Not sure how other UK constituents were made

 

Edited to say.

 

After reading my own link I see that the North East rejected an elected body and the whole idea has died such that the regions will be disbanded in 2010.

 

Still think that Astartus's south west seems correct though

Edited September 3, 2008 by garyhoney

[+Delta68]

when looking for a cache in a "state" we need to hope that the owner knew where he was as well...

 

Personally I wouldn't bother searching by 'state'...

I've seen caches listed as totally the wrong area

 

I wouldn't bother searching by postcode either anymore but that's another story.

 

 

M

[Deceangi]

As was explained when we set up the regions, we did not follow any Political/Historical Regional Boundaries for the UK [ireland is different] but divided the UK up into regions in the what we believed was the most appropriate way for Geocaching in the UK.

 

The maps and GE Overlay are correct and can be found at UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions this is hosted by Croaghan the Ireland Reviewer on behalf of the UK/Ireland Reviewers. The GE overlay is invaluable in confirming which Region a location is in when it is on the borders

 

Over time with impute from cache owners, the regions will be added to caches already published before the Regions were added.

 

Whilst some will not use the Region Search facility, there are those especially Non PM's who will find it helpful. The more Cache Owners who take the time to add the region to their caches, the more the region search facility becomes useful. There was a similar negative reaction from some when we made the use of Additional Waypoints Mandatory in the UK [for the most part Multi/Puzzles published pre AW's becoming Mandatory where there is information on stages/final containers. Now have them]. Over time when I'm able I'll add the regions to nearby caches when Reviewing a cache submission, but if cache owners will do it them selvse we could reach a 70% level in less than 6 months.

[+Astartus]

Made some changes to the FindStatGen map and the map definition file for GSAK. Now the regions should match those provided in the above mentioned link.

 

The newest version for the UK file can be downloaded here

[+G4UYG]

Thanks for all this. I can now see that I'm in the East of England for Geocaching purposes but the South East for most other things including the weather ) I've changed my profile and the one cache that I own.

I also use GSAK so it would be useful if this info was included in all caches eventually but I bet I'm not the only one to have got it wrong...

 

PS in Edit:

Also a good place to thank Astartus for his map work for GSAK. Just downloaded from link above.

Edited September 3, 2008 by G4UYG

[+Delta68]

Being right on the Worcestershire/Warwickshire border, there's no mistaking that our caches are all 'West Midlands' and we have changed them all to reflect this.

However, there's a cache 1.7 miles from our home co-ords which is listed as 'East Midlands'

 

 

M

[+The Hornet]

The maps and GE Overlay are correct and can be found at UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions this is hosted by Croaghan the Ireland Reviewer on behalf of the UK/Ireland Reviewers.

Just an aside, I think the list of Reviewers is in urgent need of updating!

[+L8HNB]

Not wishing to be overly pedantic about this buit shouldn't the map say that the regional boundaries and based on the county borders, for those from abroad, who might choose to use this system. A list of the counties in each region might also help.

 

I guess the date when the county borders was fixed should also be shown as they have, and will, change quite a bit.

 

H

[+dino-irl]

The maps and GE Overlay are correct and can be found at UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions this is hosted by Croaghan the Ireland Reviewer on behalf of the UK/Ireland Reviewers.

Just an aside, I think the list of Reviewers is in urgent need of updating!

I wasn't expecting to see the link on this forum until I released it. I won't get a chance to fix and update the page either until the weekend so I guess you'll just have bear with it for a while!

[+Graculus]

When the 'states' were introduced for England, Scotland and Wales there was discussion about an inconsistency in the naming convention; Northeast England and Southeast OF England, North Wales and Scotland North for example. I've spoken to Groundspeak and they are quite happy to change this to reflect what the map shows. This change WILL NOT affect any caches that you have created with a region or any that you have gone back over to change. All you'll see is the region name change slightly. It is not a change of the actual area just a minor change of name.

I've also had discussion with those 'North of the Border' and the consensus is that Scotland should be Northern Scotland and Southern Scotland. So here is the list as I see it. If anyone has any comments please add them, otherwise I'll ask Groundspeak to go ahead with the change next week. I also think the order shown should be used in the 'drop down box' on the cache page (from North to South of the country).

This is the list as it is now: The amended list is below it with those names in bold are ones that will be changed.

 

I have contacted those people who have been involved in both this map and the GSAK files.

 

East Midlands

East of England

London

North Wales

Northeast England

Northwest England

Scotland North

Scotland South

South of England

South Wales

Southeast of England

Southwest of England

West Midlands

Yorkshire and Humber

 

Northern Scotland

Southern Scotland

North East England

North West England

West Midlands

Yorkshire and Humber

East Midlands

East of England

North Wales

South Wales

South West England

South East England

South of England

London

 

[+ayepee]

I must admit I am all in favour of subdividing the country into regional areas, and once ALL caches are updated, it should make a regional search an easier task.

 

However, I am concerned that at the moment casches are being allocated to the incorrect area because people are guessing where the cache is, rather than referring to the overlay. For example, during the last week three new caches have been set near to me. All of them in Glouceatershire, and all of them apparently in Southwest England rather the the South of England.

 

Grouse mode now off.

 

thanks

 

ayepee

[+rutson]

Why does North Yorkshire, which I rather imagine is in "Yorkshire and Humber" have "North West England" emblazoned across it?

 

I vote for Rutson's list!

 

Oh no... my mistake, the vote was ignored, wasn't it?

[+Stuey]

Why does North Yorkshire, which I rather imagine is in "Yorkshire and Humber" have "North West England" emblazoned across it?

 

It's the label to the pin to the left of the text.

 

This map is very confusing to say the least. Surely someone can make a clear map? It really matters now as it is not just a concept. The map needs to be clear and readily accessible from the Submit new cache page to prevent any more being placed in the wrong region. Whoever created this old one, can a new improved one be made please?

[+rutson]

You'd think a team of geo-aware coders could put together a spot of magic to do it automatically on submission...

[+Astartus]

Thanks for the notification. I also noticed the inconsistency in the region names, and it is good to know that Groundspeak is informed and willing to work hand in hand with fellow cachers.

 

When Groundspeak changes the names, it is just a small correction to the map definition file for GSAK. No big deal.

[+Bear and Ragged]

South England

South of England

is in the English channel

[+rutson]

Surely "Southern England" for constancy?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Surely "Southern England" for constancy?

 

Yep, I'm happy with that.

[+Gushoneybun]

Surely "Southern England" for constancy?

 

Yep, I'm happy with that.

 

 

 

Does that make East Of England into Eastern England?

[+Graculus]

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't suggest 'Southern England' simply because the exisitng map by Jazz66 didn't have it, but if we can get a general agreement then we can use them. I'm sure the map can be changed

 

Graculus

[+Gushoneybun]

Would the list not be better in alphabetical order?

[+goldpot]

Surely "Southern England" for constancy?

 

...then surely it should be Northern Wales and Southern Wales.

[+rutson]

Hmmm... good point except "North Wales" and "South Wales" are in common usage.

[+goldpot]

Hmmm... good point except "North Wales" and "South Wales" are in common usage.

 

This may come out as a double post as the original 'got lost'!

 

...I agree.

 

Should 'Yorkshire and Humber' be just Yorkshire? I presume that there are no caches in the Humber itself?

[+Graculus]

I think the 'common usage' description is the best way to go. South Wales is where it is, it is not Southern Wales!

 

Graculus

[+Bear and Ragged]

Does it matter?

 

If you have GSAK you can rename the states

 

ie:

Wales = here be Dragons, up and here be Dragons, down

North = oop north left and oop north right

South = down there, down there more, and so on!

[+JollyJax]

Oxfordshire is neither West Midlands nor South of England ... whats so bad about using county names .... I object to having to make a choice between two areas that arent where I am, each time I submit or even edit a previously published cache....

 

Is it just me?

 

Bob

[Deceangi]

Oxfordshire is neither West Midlands nor South of England ... whats so bad about using county names .... I object to having to make a choice between two areas that arent where I am, each time I submit or even edit a previously published cache....

 

Is it just me?

 

Bob

 

The Google Earth Overlay downloadable from UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions will allow you to work out the correct region.

 

As to why we did not got with Counties, well there are around 130 counties in the UK which would be unworkable, and have people moaning even more if they had to scroll through a list that long each time. We divided the UK into Regions as a more workable solution. Oh and we did not follow any existing Historical or Political regions currently in use.

[+JollyJax]

By setting West Midlands rather than the South of England .. Do I breach any written rules?

 

I cannot see my home as being associated with or close to Portsmouth for example but I am only a few motorway miles from Warwick.

[+G4UYG]

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't suggest 'Southern England' simply because the exisitng map by Jazz66 didn't have it, but if we can get a general agreement then we can use them. I'm sure the map can be changed

 

Graculus

 

I think this follows my original point. (?) I live in what is usually called "The South East" but I'm happy to use "Eastern England" if that's the correct one. I'm really not fussy.

But "Southern England" is usually accepted as being everything south of the Midlands. Thus if that term is used anyone who doesn't bother to check will (rightly?) put everything from Cornwall to The Wash as being in the south.

It's not the actual name that's the problem, it's making sure that people get the right one.

I hesitate to suggest this, but couldn't our overworked reviewers reject any new caches in the wrong region? It would only be a matter of looking at the cache location in Google Earth with the overlay enabled. Yes I know the cache owner should have already done that but if everything could be safely left to the owners we wouldn't need the reviewers

[Deceangi]

By setting West Midlands rather than the South of England .. Do I breach any written rules?

 

I cannot see my home as being associated with or close to Portsmouth for example but I am only a few motorway miles from Warwick.

 

Nope no written rule, but I don't understand why you'd wish to deliberately mess up the Region your caches are in. Just because you won't use the Region Search facility, why mess it up by deliberately listing your caches in the wrong region? You'd be annoyed if someone listed a local cache as being In France, this is just the same, for the Region Search facility to work, everyone needs to accurately list the correct region. Unless your not concerned about your fellow cachers who might be using the search facility!

 

Ad just in case I haven't been clear at any point! We did not follow any Historical or Political Regions that have been used.

[+G4UYG]

By setting West Midlands rather than the South of England .. Do I breach any written rules?

 

I cannot see my home as being associated with or close to Portsmouth for example but I am only a few motorway miles from Warwick.

 

If you actually don't use the regions then you'd probably never care.

But those of us who use GSAK do use the information so if you set your cache in the wrong region it messes up our pretty charts

As for your profile location I think that you can probably choose any one you like. Viewing someone's profile doesn't show the region but does have their actual location (if they've added it) Where the region info comes in is over on the right where you will see under search options "List newest in (your home region)"

Presumably in this case you would be better off to have West Midlands set as it will show you new caches there and not in Portsmouth

[+Maple Leaf]

I still think Somerset and probably Bristol should be classified as being in the 'South West' and not South ... is it too late to change what belongs in a region?

 

I initially changed my caches to South ..... but as alot of other local caches were saying South West I changed my to South West as well.

 

 

Also, in the new 'drop down' list - Yorkshire and Humber should come above West Midlands if you are going North to South down the country !

[+L8HNB]

Ad just in case I haven't been clear at any point! We did not follow any Historical or Political Regions that have been used.

 

Which is why I made my earlier point above - how does anyone know where the boundaries are?

 

Ok, if you'r well away from a boundary, but lots of us aren't! We'd hate to accidentally mess up anyones pretty charts by mistake

 

H

[+Jonovich]

Which is why I made my earlier point above - how does anyone know where the boundaries are?

 

It would be kinda handy if someone had a set of GPX files outlining the new boundaries, it's a simple matter of putting the caches through the States macro then in GSAK. I've tried putting the KML file into some KML to GPX converters and most of them crashed when presented with it... Those that didn't produced a file of a few Kb with nothing of value in it.

 

Jon

[+MisterBen]

Now we have had them a while, are people finding these "states" useful?

 

I have to say I've not found a use for them. If you are using them, for what?

[+Bear and Ragged]

By setting West Midlands rather than the South of England .. Do I breach any written rules?

 

I cannot see my home as being associated with or close to Portsmouth for example but I am only a few motorway miles from Warwick.

 

Nope no written rule, but I don't understand why you'd wish to deliberately mess up the Region your caches are in. Just because you won't use the Region Search facility, why mess it up by deliberately listing your caches in the wrong region? You'd be annoyed if someone listed a local cache as being In France, this is just the same, for the Region Search facility to work, everyone needs to accurately list the correct region. Unless your not concerned about your fellow cachers who might be using the search facility!

 

Ad just in case I haven't been clear at any point! We did not follow any Historical or Political Regions that have been used.

 

Being in the West Midlands -near Warwick- I do caches set by JollyJax.

If they were listed as South/Southern England, I wouldn't bother looking to see if he'd set any!

[+Mad H@ter]

Being in the West Midlands -near Warwick- I do caches set by JollyJax.

If they were listed as South/Southern England, I wouldn't bother looking to see if he'd set any!

Eh, why ?

 

If you know that you are in a border area surely common sense would tell you to check both!

 

As a premium member it is unlikely that I will ever use this feature in a search, although I am gradually updating my caches in case it is of some help to others. I notice that you are also a premium member so I would have thought that you might find better ways to search for caches anyway.

 

IMHO it is pretty much academic what name the regions are given, they could well be just called Region 1 through to 14 and would be just as useful (or not as the case might be).

 

I have to say that I'm a bit puzzled as to why we are still arguing over this matter as it was well and truly discussed/argued over many months ago and decision agreed/imposed. A line had to be drawn and a decision made as no one is ever going to agree on this, so it is now time to make use of (or not) what we now have and stop gripping over were the arbitrary borders are and the names of the regions.

[+ayepee]

It's not the actual name that's the problem, it's making sure that people get the right one.

 

My point exactly.

[Deceangi]

Ad just in case I haven't been clear at any point! We did not follow any Historical or Political Regions that have been used.

 

Which is why I made my earlier point above - how does anyone know where the boundaries are?

 

Ok, if you'r well away from a boundary, but lots of us aren't! We'd hate to accidentally mess up anyones pretty charts by mistake

 

H

 

Ermm this link UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions has been posted several times and is linked to from my Sig Line. You'll find a Google Earth Overlay of the regions there. This allows you to zoom in at close level to see the actual location of the boundaries.

 

If you come across caches listed in the wrong region, contact the owner and point this out, alternatively contact one of the Reviewers and we will drop a note advising the cache owner, on your behalf

 

For the Region Search facility to bee extremely affective, we need to hit a 70% saturation point [and before anyone says this is not achievable. We're now at a 99% saturation point for AW's on Multi/Puzzle caches listed post 2005.]

[+Mad H@ter]

Ermm this link UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions has been posted several times and is linked to from my Sig Line. You'll find a Google Earth Overlay of the regions there. This allows you to zoom in at close level to see the actual location of the boundaries.

But this is only of any use to the minority of cachers that frequent the forums. What we need is some sort of link on the "Report a New Cache" form and preferably adjacent to the State/Province drop down box. I'm not sure if my memory is playing tricks on me but I thought that when these were first put on there was such a link, although it did not work .

[+JollyJax]

By setting West Midlands rather than the South of England .. Do I breach any written rules?

 

I cannot see my home as being associated with or close to Portsmouth for example but I am only a few motorway miles from Warwick.

 

Nope no written rule, but I don't understand why you'd wish to deliberately mess up the Region your caches are in. Just because you won't use the Region Search facility, why mess it up by deliberately listing your caches in the wrong region? You'd be annoyed if someone listed a local cache as being In France, this is just the same, for the Region Search facility to work, everyone needs to accurately list the correct region. Unless your not concerned about your fellow cachers who might be using the search facility!

 

Ad just in case I haven't been clear at any point! We did not follow any Historical or Political Regions that have been used.

 

Its not a case of doing anything deliberate here, I live 30 miles from Warwickshire and I live 95 miles from Portsmouth. I really dont think folks searching for caches around Newbury or Portsmouth would want to see my caches so close to Warwickshire. According to the Regional map some of my caches are in East Midlands and this fits really well because they are 15 miles from my home and situated in the county of Northamptonshire. Some of my other cachers just 5 miles further from home are truly in the West Midlands but those 2 or 3 miles south of my workplace are suddenly South of England. A personal view, not a deliberate act to confuse or mislead other cachers.

 

I really do like the idea of a regional search and wouldnt want to mislead other cachers, quite the reverse, I would hope to ecourage folks to look for my caches by its use. Personally, it will take some time to get used to searching this way as currently I tend to trawl post codes or other cachers profiles

 

No French caches were harmed or logged whilst submitting this post

[+L8HNB]

Ermm this link UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions has been posted several times and is linked to from my Sig Line. You'll find a Google Earth Overlay of the regions there. This allows you to zoom in at close level to see the actual location of the boundaries.

Oh, I see! My apologies!

 

I had looked at the pretty picture several times and wondered how that would help, but hadn't realised that little link gave an overlay that came up on GE

 

If I've missed it then surely others must have too - perhaps the instruction could be made a little clearer for dozey old bu99ers like me.....

 

Practical use? Other than the Estuary arguement, for me, none at all yet.

 

I have a notification set for all caches in the 25 mile radius of home, and if we are out and about locally I download a PQ of 500 based on here, which equates to a radius of just under 25 miles. When were going further than that we pick a town or point of interest and do a PQ or two based on that.

 

Thanks for the extra prod, Deci!.

 

H

[+dino-irl]

The maps and GE Overlay are correct and can be found at UK & Ireland Geocaching Regions this is hosted by Croaghan the Ireland Reviewer on behalf of the UK/Ireland Reviewers.

Just an aside, I think the list of Reviewers is in urgent need of updating!

I wasn't expecting to see the link on this forum until I released it. I won't get a chance to fix and update the page either until the weekend so I guess you'll just have bear with it for a while!

All sorted now

[+L8HNB]

Can I respectfully suggest changing this line of text on the page:

 

"To download your own copy of the GE Overlay click here."

 

To something like:

 

"To view the Region boundaries in detail download your own copy of the GE Overlay click here."

 

And perhaps a help file for those who don't know about GE. Lots of folks come on here and learn this stuff, we are not all computer wizz's!

 

H