Lowest Common Denominator

[+Alibags]

Another cacher was doing a multi of mine the other day. They commented that it was a shame that it did not get done very often as it took you to a nice place. They suggested that I change it to a trad and then it would get more hits. I considered this for a while, but then discounted it. I originally made it a multi (actually a fairly short offset) to make it slightly more of a challenge because the final location is pretty obvious. That reason is still valid. Some of my canal caches are offset multis because I want to start at the canal, but there is no suitable hiding place on the canal.

 

Now, when I go caching, if there are some puzzles and multis in an area, I will read the cache pages and work out if they are straightforward to do, and in the case of puzzles, can they be solved in advance. If the multi involves 15 stages and you have to work out the co-ords for each stage as you go along, I may chose to exclude it from my days caching. I have done caches like this, notably the ones nearest to home or those that are in an otherwise cache free desert when I am working away from home, but probably would not include them in a numbers day. I do know cachers who merely filter out anything that is not a trad without looking at it. Come to mention it, they don't often look at the cache pages for trad either!

 

It's a shame there is not a separate offset cache icon. However, given that I do set caches to be found, should I change them all to trads and not bother with local info/interest in my cache descriptions to please the number hunting mob?

 

Taken to it's logical extreme, you would create a cache page with just a description of the cache container and have a cache name calculated to convert into an unambiguous smart name nicely. You would not bother with trades, so a small cache would do. - room for a geocoin or two. You would not set micros because they take too long to find. This sounds pretty bland and dreadful to me.

 

What does anybody else think? Should you change your caches or only set new caches to suit the lowest common denominator? I don't think I shall be doing so, but wondered if I was miles away from what the rest of you think.

[+MartyBartfast]

No, don't change variety is the spice of life.

 

One thing I do like to see for multis/offsets though is a rough description of where you are going to be taken, some do this but many dont. When I was out going for numbers a couple of weeks ago I had an approximate route planned but I avoided the multi's as I had no idea where they would take me and whether it would screw up my route, so something simple like "The cache is within 500yds" or "This will take you on a 1 mile walk to the North West" would do for me.

[+Von-Horst]

 

However, given that I do set caches to be found, should I change them all to trads and not bother with local info/interest in my cache descriptions to please the number hunting mob?

 

 

No.

 

When I'm away from home I am guilty of often ignoring multis, especially those with a dozen or so steps to do and/or those which don't give you any indication of where you will end up so that you cannot plan your day properly - I'd rather not retrace my steps, for example...

[+keehotee]

I set a multi a couple of weeks ago, that was originally going to be a trad - but I made a decision at the time to take people along the route I'd taken to set it, as finders could otherwise have parked and just walked by the shortest route to the cache without seeing most of the reasons I had for taking them there in the first place. I could have made it a power trail as well - but decided against pandering to the number collectors.......

Edited February 8, 2008 by keehotee

[+Cushie Butterfield]

I tend to do quick, easy terrain caches during the week when the children are at school. I wont go into woods on my own or remote country walks.

When the kids are with me, especially when my son is home from boarding school we like to do puzzle caches because they are more fun as a team.

 

We did a trail of 5+ bonus last weekend in a country park, I took a newbie friend and her two children, it was lovely finding all of the caches in one park, it was just about a circular route and we all had a brilliant day. With younger children it was loads better than driving from one to another, parking, caching then back in the car to the next one.

My son comes back for half term tonight and we are planning a night cache next week when we can all go together.

I love the variety, I think it's great that people take the time to teach a little history and geography when they lay puzzle or multi caches.

[markandlynn]

No, don't change variety is the spice of life.

 

One thing I do like to see for multis/offsets though is a rough description of where you are going to be taken, some do this but many dont. When I was out going for numbers a couple of weeks ago I had an approximate route planned but I avoided the multi's as I had no idea where they would take me and whether it would screw up my route, so something simple like "The cache is within 500yds" or "This will take you on a 1 mile walk to the North West" would do for me.

 

Agreed

 

I set a multi a couple of weeks ago, that was originally going to be a trad - but I made a decision at the time to take people along the route I'd taken to set it, as finders could otherwise have parked and just walked by the shortest route to the cache without seeing most of the reasons I had for taking them there in the first place. I could have made it a power trail as well - but decided against pandering to the number collectors.......

 

And agreed

 

Its sad that you have had to consider changing how you plant your own caches .

 

Plant what you would like to find its the only way you can be happy with what you have out there for others.

 

I.P.C.

[+HazelS]

There are certain cachers on this forum who think they are the cache police, and recently, I have noticed some rather snipey remarks.

 

You won't get that from me... but what you will get are my own ramblings....

 

I dislike Multis. End of. Kind of... well... I do do them, sort of, sometimes!

 

I HATE multis that take me on a 15 stop, 17 mile walk through city centres. What is the point? If I wanted to walk around a city, I'd do that while I was shoe and handbag shopping!! The only exception would be if the city was very different - I haev enjoyed walking the walls of York and Chester for examples.

 

I think that there should DEFFINITELY be a new icon for off set caches. I have a VERY short offset cache - the 1st point is the carpark, and the info you get there takes you straight to the cache after you have added a specific number to the coords. However, compared to my trads, it gets hit very infrequently when people come on numbers day to Wirral.

 

When I go eventing, I AM gulity of filtering out the Multis and puzzles... puzzles cos I invariably need lots of help on those, and multis if there are enough trads in an area, why bother? However, if I look at them, and they're a short offset, I WILL include them.

 

People like caching for different reasons, and what one person does isn't necessarily right or wrong.......

 

I don't care if my caches get done or not, so long as those people that did them, enjoyed them.

 

Phew... rant over!

[+Alibags]

I HATE multis that take me on a 15 stop, 17 mile walk through city centres. What is the point? If I wanted to walk around a city, I'd do that while I was shoe and handbag shopping!! The only exception would be if the city was very different - I haev enjoyed walking the walls of York and Chester for examples.

 

Handbags and shoes? Amen to that!! Funnily, it was a certain 15 stage multi in York that I was thinking of when I wrote that. I did the three virtuals on the first night in York, so then I chose to do the great big multi on the next night. I could have stayed in the jacuzzi in my hotel, so I must be mad, LOL. Actually, it left me with a good sense of achievement (after my feet had stopped throbbing) - much more so than a park bench micro would have done.

 

I am going to check my offsets and multis now and ensure that I do give an idea of distance and direction, which I think is a good idea, although I don't want to give the game away as I have been known to 'cheat' at multis myself, when the description makes it clear which footpath you will be going down and then the clue is 'in the old dread tree stump', making it easy to wing it.

[+HazelS]

Yes... I think I will change my Multis to show that they are actually offsets and give them an idea of how far it is and how long it will take too!!!

 

Cheers Ali!!!!!

[+Malpas Wanderer]

Keep the multi(s), there is nothing more boring than a days caching especially if most are micros.

 

A days caching for me is based around a few multi(s) or long caches with printouts in hand.

 

Any other caches are likely done straight from the GPSr and likely I'll only look at the cache page on a Pocket PC if I have difficulty finding it this way.

Not looking at the cache page sometimes has a down side as you might miss something the setter wishes to guide you to or other vital info but with so many caches having little content on the page it hardly seems worthwhile printing every one.

 

Personally I prefer one good enjoyable cache with good descriptive cache page rather than all these micros placed for the numbers boys.

 

The only down side with multi(s) that are infrequently visited is you are never sure if all the elements are still in place, so could feel a little despondent if you return home with few numbers achieved.

 

Keep the multi(s) and interesting caches, plus place a few more

Edited February 8, 2008 by Malpas Wanderer

[+FantasticCat]

As I put in my profile a couple of days ago, I think multis are a great way of getting people to appreciate the place and not just head straight for the cache and away. You absolutely should not pander to requests. It is your cache and seeing people aren't paying you to set them, they can go and whistle if they don't like them. Multis do seem to be well down in visits compared to the singles, but you still find that lots of the serious cachers, who may or may not be concerned with numbers, still take the trouble to do them. My worst experience with a multi was an 11 stage one covering probably 2-3 miles. All the clues were in place. When I got to the final it had be muggled. I e-mailed the owner and he decided to archive it I soon recovered my appreciation of them though!

[+Jaz666]

The thought has occurred to me that with so many cachers destined to be in the same place at the same time in August, it's going to be a golden opportunity for a bit of social experimentation.

 

I'm intending on placing a variety of new caches for the Mega Event, and it will be interesting to see which cache attracts the most visitors, what type of cache do family groups go for etc etc etc.

 

I've never shyed away from attempting multis on a caching day out, and I've certainly placed a few different varieties. It'll be interesting to see how that changes once I get myself a set of wheels.

[+Bear and Ragged]

We like muti's.

If it has a good description, says how many stages (not too many), gives some idea of how far the route will take you- it's in with a chance of us going for it.

 

Good write ups in the logs also help!

 

G

Edited February 8, 2008 by KandG

[+*mouse*]

You need to ask yourself whether the additional stages of a multi cache will add to the geocachers enjoyment of the finding the hide.

 

Be honest with yourself - if the answer is no then make it a traditional. If the answer is yes, then make it a multi. It may attract fewer vistors, but to my mind a quality cache is always better than a numbers cache.

[+Pieman]

Funnily enough the cache of mine that has been visited the most is a multi. It is only 2.5 months old so maybe it's the newness that is distorting the figures. Of my old caches (2004) a short multi I own is visited at about the same rate as an easy trad of mine. I find it's only the long multis that get less hits. I even have a puzzle that gets lots of finds because I con people into doing it by putting Motorway Mayhem in the name (albeit with "not" in front of the word "Motorway").

 

In general I'm a big fan of multis as on average I find them placed with more thought than the average trad.

[Izzy and the Lizard King]

Taken to it's logical extreme, you would create a cache page with just a description of the cache container and have a cache name calculated to convert into an unambiguous smart name nicely. You would not bother with trades, so a small cache would do. - room for a geocoin or two. You would not set micros because they take too long to find. This sounds pretty bland and dreadful to me.

I guess it would generate pretty bland logs from visitors too.

 

As cache owners we would prefer a few entertaining logs rather than loads of boring one liners.

As cache hunters we do have "numbers days" but also have "quality days". We particularly make a point of going for a "goody" for our milestones. We already have one pencilled in for our 1000th (still over 100 away) which we would have to travel about 90 miles to find but we believe is a bit special

Do without this type and we would have to skip the milestones and skip from 899 to 901, 999 to 1001 etc

[+Stuey]

There's an 18 stage multi near me, and I'll only try for it if I have cleared all the others in the area. These sort of caches are seldomly visited once they have been found by the locals, but as long as they have the occasional visitor who enjoys it, then that's ok innit?

[+The Wombles]

My two oldest multicaches (May 02 and June 02) have had 102 and 189 visits. The oldest offset (August 03) has had 109 visits (the text has always said it is an offset and in fact it was incorrectly categorised as traditional to begin with).

 

Of the traditionals (similar difficulty/terrain, also in the country not towns), the figures are: Nov 02: 186 visits, Jan 03: 161 visits, Sept 02: 185 visits. So it's hard to tell from this (statistically invalid?) sample.

 

Of a similar age, I have two virtuals which have been visited: April 02: 563 visits and June 02: 1364 visits. Admittedly they are in London and Washington DC.......

[+Rosie's Rangers]

We enjoy all types of caches, variety is the spice an' all that.

 

We also have noticed that our multis get a lot less hits than the trads and especially the MMs, but our best GCUK rated cache is our longest multi around a lovely little town taking in the interesting waypoints.

 

With this in mind, and our own opinion too, I would say keep the multis along with all the other types, just make the places special. If people don't want to put a bit of effort in finding a cache, its their loss! We have done all sorts of caches, and the ones that stick out the most in our memories are the long multis as they can lead you to lovely places.

 

(Good point about making it clear to peeps how long the multi will take, time-wise or distance. Will check ours out over the weekend)

[+Paul G0TLG]

I'm with the other posters - place the caches that YOU want to place. Personally I prefer a multi to give me an idea what I'm in for, so I know if it's long or short, or will take me towards or away from where I want to go, etc. But multis have their place, alongside all the other cache types

[+careygang]

Multis don't get as many visits, but when they do, at least it's not just 'TFTC-TNLN'.

I placed Grantham Scouts - The Explorer out for the Scouts and it goes several months between visits.

However, the Logs are always worthwhile.

 

One of the best caches we have fond the kids loved it.

 

A nice walk in unusual surroundings. The hiding places were good and one particularly tricky due to the leaf fall.

 

Excellent walk even if we may not have taken the shortest route having failed to have taken a map!

 

Very pleasant wander around the woods and paths, one of the best hunts so far.

 

So if the multi is of quality, (not ridiculously long, too many parts etc), then they are worth the effort of putting out....

[+minstrelcat]

Personally, what I get out of placing caches is the pleasure of a nice log saying the cacher enjoyed doing the cache or enjoyed visiting the area the cache was in.

 

The multis I have placed take cachers on tours around what I think are nice areas - areas a cacher might not look around if they headed straight for the cache. I've had some good comments from cachers logging these so I think they have achieved their purpose!

 

Lisa

[+SidAndBob]

The problem with multi's is that some poor ones give the others a bad name. I don't like the ones where there are stages for the sake of having stages. You know the sort - find the number on a manhole cover then walk 20 feet to count the rails on a fence.

But a good multi is unbeatable. I don't care if some of mine get infrequently visited. I know they are good and I know that most people who visit them will get a kick out of them.

Stand up for the good multi and don't change them for anyone.

 

I agree that there should be an offset icon too.

[+drsolly]

We do all kinds of caches, including multis. But I would plead that the cache page of a multi, include a rough idea of how far we'll have to walk.

 

I agree that it would be good if offsets were a different type of cache from multis.

 

I did a multi recently, where the first stage took me to a grave just inside the cemetary (easy to find), that lgave me the coords for Agatha Christie's grave (which is an interresting visit), and then the final was a short walk away (you can't hide a cache in a grave). I thought that was an excelllent multi cache.