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What to do? Would you consider it cheating?


DrJeepStr
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Hi all,

I felt compelled to ask this question on the forum. Topic is Castleman's Cacher Tag Contest. So the issue is this...so me and my 12 yr old son are getting ready to activate the few cacher tag items we have accrued when I see the "Leaderboard" on CM's site...a short list with one guy listing over 6700 miles for the ONE day that the contest has been open. So we search the item's travel history and low and behold, the owner of this trackable actually had the audacity to PERSONALLY move HIS cacher tag from place to place (drop off/pick up/drop off/pick up -- SIX times in and out and the only human hands to touch this item has been ...the owners. Now I realize the urge to cheat to win something. To be that outright unethical is hard for me to comprehend though. Someone please tell me if I'm being too strict or speaking out of line. For me, this contest thing is new...I guess I had hoped that people from our community wouldn't stoop that low. My greater disappointment is in having to explain that the old phrase "cheaters never win..." must not really apply in situations such as this. Your feedback would be greatly appreciated!! DrJeepStr :santa:

 

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Addendum -10/17/07 I just wanted to direct folks to Post # 8 in this thread! A *HUGE* thanks you to Jim at Castle for being so very generous and for making this contest fair for all!! Now get out there and activate your Cacher Tags everyone!!! :laughing: DrJeepStr

Edited by DrJeepStr
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Ahhh, the finer points of counting up the miles when moving a trackable item!

 

Usually, it should only count when moved by someone other than the owner of the trackable item, and when it isn't merely "dipping" the item into a cache and moving along. The item should change hands after each and every cache drop.

 

Then again, I may be biased, I'm trying to puzzle out the same problems while administering a race of my own! :laughing:

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Pretty convenient too that he just 'happened' to fly in from Japan on the same day and flying back tomorrow....that's rich...lol

 

Forgot - Contest says Place not Dip...

 

"Place the Cacher Tag coin in a cache on or after October 15th, 2007 and let it travel."

Edited by Theotokos
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What do the rules say? If they aren't clearly set out that you can't move your own item or you can move it once only (either of those would be the fair way to do it) then anything is fair game.

 

If they are clearly set out that way, bring it to the attention of Castleman and ask what can be done about it. I agree with dflye that any kind of race like this involves a lot of adminstartion and mistakes do happen. Kudos to anyone who undertakes the job. :laughing:

 

Wait till you get an answer before you activate your coins. If you have already activated them and decide you don't want to participate, release the coins but set up your own family race with your own rules. The winner gets dinner at their favorite restaurant. And the loser gets a night on the town. :santa:

 

The hard part of doing this with kids is they learn some hard truths. Their excitement at getting involved often fades when they find out that TBs do tend to sit for a long time with no movement, often do go missing or in the case of coins get stolen and they learn that people cheat. Tough stuff to explain to the younger set. We have several TBs/coins out there that have either not moved in months or have gone missing. Such is the nature of the beast with TBs/coins. It happens. Just have a good thing for your kids to look forward to, like another coin in the mailbox. :santa: Good luck with whatever you decide.

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Copied directly from Castleman website.

 

"Place the Cacher Tag coin in a cache on or after October 15th, 2007 and let it travel."

 

To me the sentence implications are clear, place the tag in a cache, and let another cacher move the coin.

The issue is one sentence leaves much room for interpretation. Race owner has to clarify what the race expectaions are.

 

A few additional ideas come to my mind:

Purpose of race is to have more coins released into the wild.

 

The leader coin shows mileage only, no indication what caches or who has moved the coin. Based on the mileage only, can't make a true statement on how the coin has moved.

 

Highly suspicious.

Castleman has to assess the coins movement and verify.

If he is updating the race stats, he should be verifying who has moved coin.

 

Race managers deserve many handshakes, they have a hard job.

 

Accordiongal

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I checked CM's site for the rules and they are quick & to the point (unless there is something elsewhere on the site that I can't see). Nothing said about not moving it yourself.

 

This language could imply that you can move it yourself however I think most would probably presume that you are not to move your own coin:

 

Place the Cacher Tag coin in a cache on or after October 15th, 2007 and let it travel.

 

It does not explicitly state you cannot move your own coin. Open to interpretation without it set down as part of the rules. We've learned that you have to state the don'ts, can'ts and won'ts in any contest you set up or you run the risk of getting fried & having to make multiple prize winners. :laughing:

 

The cacher plans to take it back to Japan tomorrow and then I bet back to the USA too. Can anyone else compete with all that mileage by year's end? :santa: Does anyone want to try? :santa:

Edited by GPX Navigators
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I saw and decided instead of making a hasty move to add an additional rule, see below. This will be added to the site and emails have been sent out to all those in the contest. The intention of this contest was to get tags traveling in the purest sense and NOW we'll make it a reality.

 

I have decided to add another First Prize to the contest. After seeing some owner drops to different caches racking up major miles in a short amount of time I though I would add an additional First Prize (Second Season Complete Set 10 Tags) + a CM Rhodium Trade ONLY and a new CinemaBoxers "Stained Glass" 10 Anniversary Geocoin. I am also adding a second and third prize to this catagory. <-------These are for the tags that travels from cache to cache without any owner dipping, mailing or air travel. So let the additional prize begin. Drop a tag into a cache and let it travel by hand. The winner will still be announced after the end of the year. This prize will be judged by me only. I will review each tag entered and then evaluate all of the actual cacher to cacher miles logged. Good Luck and get those tags traveling.

Edited by Castle Man
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Thanks to GPX Nativigaros who provided a link to the suspisious coin, Obviously one person has moved the coin. Not the intentins in the race.

 

"The leader coin shows mileage only, no indication what caches or who has moved the coin. Based on the mileage only, can't make a true statement on how the coin has moved."

 

Castleman has showed true leadership skills by adding additional prizes for the racers who participate with races true intentions.

 

Accordiogal

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Thanks to Castle Man for the new prize. You're so generous. :santa:

I'm taking part of the contest too and when I looked at the leaderboard last night I was disappointed. :laughing:

There was this guy listing over 6700 miles for the one day that the contest has been open. :blink:

The thing is my Tag is still waiting on my desk to be drop in a local cache. ;)

Oh well, I will try to give my Tag to Santa Claus so it might travel around the world a few times before december 31st. :santa:

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I too have a Tag entered into the cointest. I dropped it into a cache yesterday (and of course it is still sitting there, waiting for a cacher who will pick it up), and for me it was clear that others had to move my coin. Glad to see that I am not the only person who thought it would work this way, and a big THANK YOU to Castle Man for honoring this with the new first price!

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i have a couple tags that i'm activating tonight to add to the race...

 

this makes me wonder if i should even bother to put them in the race

 

but i'm glad CastleMan added the extra 'rule'/prize for people being HONEST

 

edit to add images :

 

here is the tag i'm attaching to mine -

 

front

race.png

back

race-back.png

 

feel free to use it if you want (it's just something quick i whipped up)

Edited by ~tasia~
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Got mine all ready to travel the Trans Canada Highway. Put it in a great new TB Hotel on the TC and was in the process of sending CM the information, when...the coin has been picked up by someone who has collected and still has most of the over thirty coins in his/her moved/discovered list. All those coins and only 7 caches to their name. Very sad that the few can ruin it for the great many.

Oh well, I'll try again with a new one - after all, I had to get all 12 of these beauties. Castle Man, quit creating such nice coins :P .

Good luck to all the 'natural' travellers :)

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Got mine all ready to travel the Trans Canada Highway. Put it in a great new TB Hotel on the TC and was in the process of sending CM the information, when...the coin has been picked up by someone who has collected and still has most of the over thirty coins in his/her moved/discovered list. All those coins and only 7 caches to their name. Very sad that the few can ruin it for the great many.

Oh well, I'll try again with a new one - after all, I had to get all 12 of these beauties. Castle Man, quit creating such nice coins :) .

Good luck to all the 'natural' travellers :)

 

I bookmarked that person's profile, so I can see what they eventually do with all the coins they've "collected". :) At least they logged them out of the cache, most of a certain kind of "collector" just go take the coin out of the cache, and leave no hint that they were there. Good luck with the next one you put out, hopefully far away from the "collector". I put my contest coin out, and it was picked up the same day, by an out-of-towner. When they got home, they dropped it in a local cache, so it picked up a quick 600 miles. It was also very nice of the Castle Man to offer up a new prize for the coins that are moved the traditional way! :lol:

 

-----------------------------

 

I just checked his profile again, and he has TWO of the cacher tags that are in the cointest.... hopefully he will release them quickly!

Edited by Band of Bradys
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Got mine all ready to travel the Trans Canada Highway. Put it in a great new TB Hotel on the TC and was in the process of sending CM the information, when...the coin has been picked up by someone who has collected and still has most of the over thirty coins in his/her moved/discovered list. All those coins and only 7 caches to their name. Very sad that the few can ruin it for the great many.

Oh well, I'll try again with a new one - after all, I had to get all 12 of these beauties. Castle Man, quit creating such nice coins :) .

Good luck to all the 'natural' travellers :)

 

I just checked to see if the person was still holding your contest cachetag coin, and see that they are now a "Banned Member" :(

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Got mine all ready to travel the Trans Canada Highway. Put it in a great new TB Hotel on the TC and was in the process of sending CM the information, when...the coin has been picked up by someone who has collected and still has most of the over thirty coins in his/her moved/discovered list. All those coins and only 7 caches to their name. Very sad that the few can ruin it for the great many.

Oh well, I'll try again with a new one - after all, I had to get all 12 of these beauties. Castle Man, quit creating such nice coins :) .

Good luck to all the 'natural' travellers :)

 

I just checked to see if the person was still holding your contest cachetag coin, and see that they are now a "Banned Member" :(

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I'm thinking we should have a new race starting in January. The rules will be very specific and detailed to prevent any issues and multiple catagories this time around. Stay tuned.

:) Great idea!

 

My little racer tag finally got on the way after sitting in his starting cache for a loooong time and now has travelled his first six :( miles. I guess not a real winner, but after it was put into a film canister yesterday it was immediately picked up again, and I guess now the race begins :)

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The more I think about it January might be a terrible time to start a race as many of you are burried in snow. Maybe we'll just have to start the entries in January for a new race and the actual start time may be nearer April and end near Halloween. More thought needed on this, but rest assured we'll have another race.

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I'm wondering what qualifies a cacher as a "banned member" on their profile page? We have a similiar cacher up here, that I'd love to see banned!

 

Hmmm might have something to do with the fact that every coin in his discovered column is still in his possession. 30+ coins stolendiscovered with 7 finds

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