Pay to find caches?

[+rhelt100]

I've noticed a few new earthcaches pop up that require paid entry into an area in order to gather the logging requirements. Are these slipping through because they're approved by the EC people or has Groundspeak decided to overlook "commercial caches" if they're ECs?

[+Rockin Roddy]

There are tons of caches out there that require a fee to enter the park to get the cache! I own several myself.

[+sbell111]

I have one that costs $63 (as of 1/07).

[+rhelt100]

There are tons of caches out there that require a fee to enter the park to get the cache! I own several myself.

 

 

That would be a non-profit though.

[+Mule Ears]

There are tons of caches out there that require a fee to enter the park to get the cache! I own several myself.

 

That would be a non-profit though.

 

Waypoint (GC-) numbers would help us understand the commercial nature of the caches you're talking about.

[+x_Marks_the_spot]

If the cache is specifically soliciting finders to patronize some kind of establishment, that is what is banned by the guidelines. But just having a cache in an area that requires a fee is okay.

[+J-Way]

There are tons of caches out there that require a fee to enter the park to get the cache! I own several myself.

That would be a non-profit though.

So the caches you're talking about require paying a fee to a for-profit company/organization? That definitely encroaches on "commercial" cache. I'll second the request for specific waypoints.

 

I know of many caches that require entry fees payable to Local, State, and Federal parks, which I feel are acceptable. There are even several local ones that require a day-use fee (or annual membership) payable to the Autubon Society, which I also feel is acceptable.

[+rhelt100]

There are tons of caches out there that require a fee to enter the park to get the cache! I own several myself.

 

That would be a non-profit though.

 

Waypoint (GC-) numbers would help us understand the commercial nature of the caches you're talking about.

 

 

It was not my intent to publicly call out any specific caches. I just wanted to make sure that I understood the guidelines correctly and I'm seeing that I did not. The way I understood the guidelines to read was that there can be no requirement to purchase a product in order to complete a cache. If my only option besides trespassing is to pay an admittance fee to get to a cache, that would seem to me to require a product purchase.

[+PlantAKiss]

 

I would be guessing the next flurry of replies would be: "If you object to a fee to hunt for the cache, then don't do it."

 

Really...I've just always wanted to use that emoticon because I think its cute as hell.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Perhaps you might want to re-read the guidelines for caches.

[+rdaines]

Some fees that I have paid:

 

- parking

- red Rock Pass in Sedona

- State Parks

- AZ Trust Land use permit

[mikej2]

I'm still functionally new at this stuff, but my take on it is:

 

1. If it is in a National Park (with permission), within a state park (with permission), within a county park (with permission), on the grounds of a museum site (with permission), or any other similar type of place where a fee might be required to visit or park then it is probably okay to have a cache there (with permission), but the fee requirement should be noted in the cache description.

 

2. A cache is probably not allowed to be placed inside DisneyLand, or Great America, or other similar destination attraction unless it is outside the fee-required area and may or may not require permission.

 

2a. I'm not sure if a cache would be allowed on the grounds of the Chief Crazy Horse monument near Mt. Rushmore.

 

Please correct me if I"m wrong (I'll try to remember I posted to this thread so I can come back and check on replies).

[+Rockin Roddy]

I have one that costs $63 (as of 1/07).

 

I was trying to figure out how a cache could cost that much just to find...then I thought of the caches on Mackinaw Island. You need to take a ferry to the island and would likely need to rent a bike as cars are not allowed (and it's a large island). It could get expensive!!

[+sbell111]

I have one that costs $63 (as of 1/07).

 

I was trying to figure out how a cache could cost that much just to find...then I thought of the caches on Mackinaw Island. You need to take a ferry to the island and would likely need to rent a bike as cars are not allowed (and it's a large island). It could get expensive!!

It's in Disneyland. (It's also grandfathered.)

[+wimseyguy]

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Perhaps you might want to re-read the guidelines for caches.

Although the earthcaches have a slightly different set of guidelines, I'll still say: dingdingding we have a winner!

[+GPSlug]

I have one that costs $63 (as of 1/07).

 

I was trying to figure out how a cache could cost that much just to find...then I thought of the caches on Mackinaw Island. You need to take a ferry to the island and would likely need to rent a bike as cars are not allowed (and it's a large island). It could get expensive!!

It's in Disneyland. (It's also grandfathered.)

Yep, it's a commercial vacation virtual. A trifecta of no-nos. (and I've found it )

[+Gator Man]

I've been paying to find caches since 2002. Early ones were Ct State Parks & MA State Parks, $8 - $9 each time. More recently, Broward County, FL Parks. It's odd that they only charge admission on the weekends and Holidays though!

 

Just a little food for thought; if you attended a pizza/wings/beer/ice cream event at your local watering hole for an evening, how much do you figure you would spend?

[+J-Way]

If the cache in question violates specific rules and it wasn't grandfathered in, then your only option would be to PM the approver. But since the cache was listed, maybe the approver granted an exemption.

 

Otherwise, just hit "ignore".

[+jtbrady01]

I've gone camping in state parks before. You have to pay to go camping. While there might as well get the caches that are there at the same time. No big deal. What's a couple bucks. Like what's been said before if you don't want to pay the fee. Don't cache here. All the one's I've been too have the icon on them indicating that a fee is required.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I've been paying to find caches since 2002. Early ones were Ct State Parks & MA State Parks, $8 - $9 each time. More recently, Broward County, FL Parks. It's odd that they only charge admission on the weekends and Holidays though!

 

Just a little food for thought; if you attended a pizza/wings/beer/ice cream event at your local watering hole for an evening, how much do you figure you would spend?

 

Where have I been? Top of the Empire State Building. $18/person. (Grandfathered Virtual. And a must do!) New York Botanical Garden. Free on one day a week. Think we paid $20 for that one. NJ State parks? $7 per car (?) Memorial Day to Labor Day. $8 a year to NWCDC for a hiking pass. (Yes, I have a few caches hidden there.) ESB is grandfathered. NJ state Parks, the Botanical garden and NWCDC are non-profit.

Had someone mention that they paid $40 for two to do one of my caches. (They were visiting the city, and mine was the closest NJ cache to where they were staying. And they wanted an NJ cache!) Hey. The ferry ride is spectacular! That isn't a price of admission, but how much someone is willing to pay to find a cache. (No comment on the fact that they had to climb a two-hundred foot staircase to get to the cache.)

[+stepshep]

That's why we have this attribute:

[+Redcap the Druid]

I have been to several in State parks and there is one in our city zoo... all non-profits

[+thedeadpirate]

If the cache is specifically soliciting finders to patronize some kind of establishment, that is what is banned by the guidelines. But just having a cache in an area that requires a fee is okay.

 

This is not totally true. Someone may Markwell it, but there was a thread last year about a diving cache that was not allowed because the area it was in required an entrance fee and was privately owned.

 

My understanding is that as long as the fee goes to the public such as a park fee, then it is ok. If the fee goes to a private entity, I "think" that is considered commercial.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The key is whether the location is for-profit or not-for-profit.

[+JDandDD]

The key is whether the location is for-profit or not-for-profit.

The real key that people are missing is the word soliciting. If the cache is NOT placed by the owner of the property then its not soliciting business. It is therefore not a commercial cache. The intent seems pretty clear from the policy statement on commercial caches. Its to prevent business from using the site to increase their businesses revenues.

 

Where there is likely a violation is in the obtaining of permission to place the cache.

 

JD

[+sbell111]

The key is whether the location is for-profit or not-for-profit.

The real key that people are missing is the word soliciting. If the cache is NOT placed by the owner of the property then its not soliciting business. It is therefore not a commercial cache. The intent seems pretty clear from the policy statement on commercial caches. Its to prevent business from using the site to increase their businesses revenues.

I don't believe that this is correct. One needs not have a financial connection with a business to run up on the commercial guideline.

[+wesleykey]

I've noticed a few new earthcaches pop up that require paid entry into an area in order to gather the logging requirements. Are these slipping through because they're approved by the EC people or has Groundspeak decided to overlook "commercial caches" if they're ECs?

 

Plenty of caches are in areas that require admission fees such as state parks or amusement parks.

[+Zop]

I've noticed a few new earthcaches pop up that require paid entry into an area in order to gather the logging requirements. Are these slipping through because they're approved by the EC people or has Groundspeak decided to overlook "commercial caches" if they're ECs?

 

It's hard to place a cache in a State or County park in our area without either a day-use pass or annual pass.

That's just the price you pay to take advantage of some of the nicest hiking, fishing, caching areas around!

 

And you usually wont have to hide a nano!

[Motorcycle_Mama]

State and local parks are most likely non-profits and therefore not commercial regardless of whether a fee is charged.

 

Amusement parks would likely not pass the not-for-profit test.

 

If you re-read the guideline [Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial. ], you will see that if the cache is inside a for-profit location that you are required to enter, it's a commercial cache whether you have to purchase something or not.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+rhelt100]

The key is whether the location is for-profit or not-for-profit.

The real key that people are missing is the word soliciting. If the cache is NOT placed by the owner of the property then its not soliciting business. It is therefore not a commercial cache. The intent seems pretty clear from the policy statement on commercial caches. Its to prevent business from using the site to increase their businesses revenues.

 

Where there is likely a violation is in the obtaining of permission to place the cache.

 

JD

 

 

Not true. I had a cache a few months back rejected. I had to completely rewrite the cache page. Not only was I not allowed to mention the business, but even though the entire reason I brought people to the site was to see the unique building, I was not allowed to mention the building because that made it commercial. I have no affiliation with the store and have only had contact with them while requesting permission.