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What's with the religious stuff?


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The Other day I found a Hillary for president in 2008 item. We all fell about the cache laughing. It was a classic moment.

 

OK... now I'm offended. There's no need for language like that here :D .

 

I've never quite understood those who's dislike for religion is so strong that the sight of a Bible, religious literature, the Ten Commandments or "one Nation under God" sends them into convulsions. Let me preface this by saying I'm not the most religious person in the world either (haven't been to Church since childhood), but I have my beliefs. I believe there are lessons of value in many religions. I begrudge no one their faith, I'm even polite to the door-to-door folk delivering their messages. A polite word is all it takes to send them on their way, no harm, no foul. I see religious items in caches the same way... if I'm not interested, on to the next cache.

 

Do the religious items burn some of you when you touch them? That might be a problem :) .

 

I guess there are plenty of things out there to be offended by if one's goal is to be offended... I just don't have time for it.

 

Live and let live,

 

oh yes, and God bless, :D

 

DCC

 

Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too?

...

Placing a cache that solicits is against the rules for caches listed on this site. Swag is another thing, and even more freedom is had by finders when it comes to swag. This is what Freedom looks like.

...Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby?...

No. People all believe what they believe because they are free to do so. Thank god we are free to act on what we believe right down to leaving or hating tracts. That too is freedom.

 

Bitching about it in a forum...that's also a freedom.

 

Freedom like Democracy isn't always pretty in action, its just better than the alternates.

 

Feedom. Did I advocate legislation? No. And I wouldn't call it bitching... just stating my (reasonable) opinion.

 

 

 

It's pretty funny how so many people have problems with religious items....but yet it's ok to leave other items that might offend religious people....we all have a right to participate in this game and enjoy it...there's no need to get hostile...let's just have fun...I'm a CHRISTIAN and very proud of it do I try to shove Jesus down anyones throat...NOPE...it would be wonderful if everyone could realize the LOVE he has for us all...it really makes my day when another christian has placed something special like a devotional just too make a positive affirmation...if it offends you that is not the intent at all...so please let's geocache and enjoy....and if you want to, ignore the items that refer to God....OOps I guess that would include money also ...since....IN GOD WE TRUST is on it.... :o ....just a pun....HAVE A wonderful time

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The Other day I found a Hillary for president in 2008 item. We all fell about the cache laughing. It was a classic moment.

 

OK... now I'm offended. There's no need for language like that here :D .

 

I've never quite understood those who's dislike for religion is so strong that the sight of a Bible, religious literature, the Ten Commandments or "one Nation under God" sends them into convulsions. Let me preface this by saying I'm not the most religious person in the world either (haven't been to Church since childhood), but I have my beliefs. I believe there are lessons of value in many religions. I begrudge no one their faith, I'm even polite to the door-to-door folk delivering their messages. A polite word is all it takes to send them on their way, no harm, no foul. I see religious items in caches the same way... if I'm not interested, on to the next cache.

 

Do the religious items burn some of you when you touch them? That might be a problem :) .

 

I guess there are plenty of things out there to be offended by if one's goal is to be offended... I just don't have time for it.

 

Live and let live,

 

oh yes, and God bless, :D

 

DCC

 

Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too?

...

Placing a cache that solicits is against the rules for caches listed on this site. Swag is another thing, and even more freedom is had by finders when it comes to swag. This is what Freedom looks like.

...Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby?...

No. People all believe what they believe because they are free to do so. Thank god we are free to act on what we believe right down to leaving or hating tracts. That too is freedom.

 

Bitching about it in a forum...that's also a freedom.

 

Freedom like Democracy isn't always pretty in action, its just better than the alternates.

 

Feedom. Did I advocate legislation? No. And I wouldn't call it bitching... just stating my (reasonable) opinion.

 

It's pretty funny how so many people have problems with religious items....but yet it's ok to leave other items that might offend religious people....we all have a right to participate in this game and enjoy it...there's no need to get hostile...let's just have fun...I'm a CHRISTIAN and very proud of it do I try to shove Jesus down anyones throat...NOPE...it would be wonderful if everyone could realize the LOVE he has for us all...it really makes my day when another christian has placed something special like a devotional just too make a positive affirmation...if it offends you that is not the intent at all...so please let's geocache and enjoy....and if you want to, ignore the items that refer to God....OOps I guess that would include money also ...since....IN GOD WE TRUST is on it.... :o ....just a pun....HAVE A wonderful time

I agree. Whatever happened to tolerance? Live and let live people. The guidelines are not being broken in this case. I have seen very little if any religious items in caches out here. Edited by TrailGators
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:o Sorry if that offends you, but yeah, he's just tryin to help..

 

If I ever claim to be offended, please call me on it. I can't help but think that people get offended and tell the world that they are offended for no other reason than to bully and manipulate the opposing point of view. It's just a general impression I get.

 

Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby?

 

For anyone who honestly believes what they profess, their religion is never left out of anything. Checking your religion at the door with your coat and hat merely means that you are not to be taken seriously about your faith.

 

I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other.

 

Is religious neutrality a form of tolerance, or is it merely a generalized form of intolerance? I would say that religious plurality is tolerance, where everyone is allowed to be themselves. There's nothing intolerant in this case of people leaving tracts in caches. It would be intolerant if people were required to leave or take tracts, or to make people pledge faith in something before they could participate, but even then the dissenters could always start their own geocaching site. Admit it, you just hate people of faith :) .

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I am in favor of religious items left in caches so anyone who wants to drop some unactivated LE or XLE FSM coins in caches for me to find, well I won't complain one bit...nope not me I will just except the gift and trade even...hmmm is there something even?

Edited by O-Mega
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Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too?

Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby? Nope, I guess not.

The unrelenting religious ones will sneak it in everywhere, every time, on everyone (if they could)

no matter how annoying! Motto: leave no nook, cranny, or remote piece of tupperware unsanctified by my

particular religion.

Religion definition taken from an online dictionary:
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Hm...sounds a lot like Geocaching, to me. :) Better be careful! :o
How true! If someone is passionate about their relationship with their god(s), why should they be any less welcome to place items related to that than the guy who's passionate about fishing so he leaves fishing lures? (With the hooks properly shielded, of course!)
I guess there are plenty of things out there to be offended by if one's goal is to be offended... I just don't have time for it.

 

Live and let live

Ohh... I like that, I like that philosophy a lot!
Funny, but...

 

I am merely promoting tolerance...

Isn't prohibiting certain things just because you don't like them being intolerant? Why do those who are opposed to religion, Christianity especially, scream "tolerance" while being unmovingly intolerant towards Christianity? If you don't like it just ignore it and move on.
Welcome to the forums, ganning. An excellent point for your first post! :D
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...I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, ...

That's not tolerance. That's squelching religious expression so you can be free of it. Tolerance would mean that you may not like it but you tolerate it.

What's interesting is that it's the lack of tolerance that always starts trouble. I have been guilty of that myself at times. But I am learning that being tolerant does make life far more peaceful. :o
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Ah, why not I may as well post on this one. :o

 

I've left these items as swag trade in the past:

- Dairy Queen coupon for free Peanut Buster Parfait (promoting a specific business and an unhealthy diet?)

- Arcade coupon valid forever and worth $20 free tokens (promoting a business and evil shoot-em-up video gaming?)

- St. Mary plastic medallion blessed by the Arch Bishop of Chicago (promoting Catholicism when I ain't Catholic?)

- 'Mini-Mag' flashlight (promoting Maglite brand lights over another brand?)

- Vehicle air freshener with a lucky #7 (promoting casinos and gambling/specific business?)

- "Where's George?" dollar (promoting greed?) BTW I don't care for that whole WG dollar thing but I don't take, move, or complain about them)

 

C'mon... ya' get right down to it, if Christian-related items are left behind "to promote Christianity", then most anything anyone leaves can technically promote something in some way. Of course you have the right to believe what you wanna believe, but IMHO I'd think there'd be other cache swag to be offended by, esp. if you have kids caching along... some things I've found or other cachers in my AO have found:

 

- Zippo lighter (no fuel, nice design, collectible to some, but against the rules)

- Unused, fully wrapped condoms

- Poop

- ehhh, I'll just end this list with the poop thing, but it's true

 

Don't go thru life waiting to be offended. When the time that you take offense comes and you voice your concern on a forum, sure, it might make for some debate... but in the end you might take further offense when you realize there are others out there with opinions contrary to your views.

 

Stay Safe out there.

Edited by CoyoteTrust
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Why are people offended by Christian images and not beer ads or Women in bikinis selling unrelated items.

Every year I hear about some fringe group trying to ban a Nativity scene, or remove the Ten Commandments from a court house, yet they flock to the movies and watch the latest "Kid" flick that is full of anti-hunting, anti-gun, anti-meat eating and anti-tree cutting propaganda.

Most of the people I run into that are in these groups are more dedicated to their "Religion" than most Christians I know, they are fine with pushing their ideas on other people, but get fighting mad when they see other views.

 

 

Note to the OP: I'm also a Corrections officer, High Desert State Prison in Ca, stay safe brother.

Edited by Cruiserdude
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Why are people offended by Christian images and not beer ads or Women in bikinis selling unrelated items.

 

I don't believe anyone is genuinely "offended" by such items. Indeed, non-religious people should probably be the least "offended" of all. Speaking as one such, I find religious tracts irrelevant, sometimes amusing, sometimes pathetic, but never "offensive". They may suggest I'm going to hell, but since I don't think such a place exists, how offended can I get?

 

"Offensive" is when people make remarks about your skin colour, your handicap, your relative who just passed away, etc. The line is crossed, I think, when it's about something you can't do anything about. We can all become religious, or un-religious, tomorrow, so our status as believers or not is just our current opinion.

 

I suspect the over-use of the word "offensive" is a way for people to sound or feel important. Perhaps there's a part of all of us would like to be able to claim to be persecuted (although I don't think anyone's linig up to be actually persecuted).

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some women in bikinis to look at in this car parts catalogue. :o

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Why are people offended by Christian images and not beer ads or Women in bikinis selling unrelated items.

Every year I hear about some fringe group trying to ban a Nativity scene, or remove the Ten Commandments from a court house, yet they flock to the movies and watch the latest "Kid" flick that is full of anti-hunting, anti-gun, anti-meat eating and anti-tree cutting propaganda.

Most of the people I run into that are in these groups are more dedicated to their "Religion" than most Christians I know, they are fine with pushing their ideas on other people, but get fighting mad when they see other views.

 

 

Note to the OP: I'm also a Corrections officer, High Desert State Prison in Ca, stay safe brother.

 

I don't reacll ever seeing beer ads or women in bikinis roaming the courthouse, have you?

 

I am not a corrections officer but I still want you to stay safe...................brother.

Edited by Team Cotati
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I am accepting of the fact that others may have different views and opinions to me and I will tolerate those differences. This world would be pretty bland if we all were the same. Follow the rules of the game. If you don't like the rules then try and get them changed, if you can't then stop whining.

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"Offensive" is when people make remarks about your skin colour, your handicap, your relative who just passed away, etc. The line is crossed, I think, when it's about something you can't do anything about. We can all become religious, or un-religious, tomorrow, so our status as believers or not is just our current opinion.

 

This is an interesting definition of the word. So you can't offend someone by denigrating their belief system? Hmm...

 

In relation to this topic, though they don't use the word, it seems that certain people (the radically non-religious*) are offended by the faith others as represented by items left in caches.

 

* Those that think any religiously themed item should be banned from caches.

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Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too?

Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby? Nope, I guess not.

The unrelenting religious ones will sneak it in everywhere, every time, on everyone (if they could)

no matter how annoying! Motto: leave no nook, cranny, or remote piece of tupperware unsanctified by my

particular religion.

 

While I find complete agreement with your thoughts, I also find it quite easy to ignore most of the junk that shows up in caches these days. Don't worry about it, it matters not. It only encourages them anyway. :o

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We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description.

 

scbo, you don't agree with South Jersey? On what issues?

 

It never ceases to amaze me at how strong a negative reaction to religious (Christian?) items. I'm not talking about those that only find stacks of track and such to be inappropriate, but to folks that think that anything of a religious (Christian?) nature should be forbidden and the assumption that they are left to convert fellow cachers. I occassionally leave Christian items in caches, such as crosses or other small trinkets. I have even (gasp) left a small Bible or New Testament. In none of these cases have I had conversion in mind, but thought they might be of interest to fellow Cristians.

 

Dave

 

I don't like religious items in caches because they burn if I accidentally touch them. One time I didn't notice a cross hiding under a TB that I was retrieving from an ammo can. It was months before my knuckles healed enough so that I could comfortably cache once again. :o

 

Seriously tho. I can't believe how intolerant some people are to religion and Christianity in particular. Being that over 75% of the US population identifies themselves as Christians it seems that those who are complaining about religious and more specifically Christian items in caches are a small but vocal minority. With that many people identifying themselves as Christians I am surprised that I don't find more religious items in caches.

I suspect that only 12.46% of that 75% are the ones who feel compelled to leave religious materials in caches. :)

Good thing I'm out there for the fun and adventure, and not looking to be saved!

 

Quite honestly I gave up caring about the swag years ago, but still carry a few trinkets on the rare chance that I do spot something I desire in a cache. Now where is that car parts magazine I saw referenced a few posts back?

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So you can't offend someone by denigrating their belief system? Hmm...

 

I'm sure you can offend them, for some value of "offend". It's just a question of degree. As long as I'm not threatening your freedom to hold X belief, anything I can say about it shouldn't "offend" you. But maybe we're not using the same semantics of the word "offend". :o

 

My reaction is to suggest that this claiming to be "offended" is essentially posturing - and I did say that the non-religious people ought to be the last ones to be "offended". Let me make that clear again: I think that anyone who claims to be "offended" by finding religious material in a geocache (unless that cache was financed with tax dollars, maybe) is being a jerk.

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This topic could keep going round and around and around.

 

I say everyone just come to an agreement.

 

If you come upon a cache with an item inside that you are not fond of or that offends you, simply ignore that item and move along to the next cache.

 

There is no need to make a big fuss about it.

 

Nobody is making you accept a religion. Heck they advertise Beer on TV, does that mean you have to drink beer? No!

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Funny, but...

 

I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other. Surely we can probably all imagine screeds or propoganda that would rub us the wrong way. Do we really want to give the green light on *encouraing* such items?.

 

Sorry, I wasn't going to comment on this, but I deal with this "theory" on a daily basis and find it so incredibly frustrating! I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, supposed "mecca" for so-called "progressive thought" and one of the things these "progressives" like to tell you is how tolerant they are. The statement above so completely encompasses the theory of "progressive tolerance" that it scares me. True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life.

 

"Religiously Neutral" is not tolerant. Hitler wanted a "Religiously Neutral" Germany, where his ideas were the only religion.

 

I'm also going to take the opinion that to be offended is a good thing. Strongly held beliefs come with some amount of passion, or you would never be offended (which would also say something about your faith or lack thereof). If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to some opposing views, how strongly do you really hold them yourself? That is after all, why they call it "faith". Your level of tolerance is actually defined by your response to those opposing views.

 

DCC

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True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life.

 

I'm also going to take the opinion that to be offended is a good thing. Strongly held beliefs come with some amount of passion, or you would never be offended (which would also say something about your faith or lack thereof). If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to some opposing views, how strongly do you really hold them yourself? That is after all, why they call it "faith". Your level of tolerance is actually defined by your response to those opposing views.

 

DCC

 

Very well said. I think this line should be bumped to the top of the page! :o

 

"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

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True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life.

 

I'm also going to take the opinion that to be offended is a good thing. Strongly held beliefs come with some amount of passion, or you would never be offended (which would also say something about your faith or lack thereof). If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to some opposing views, how strongly do you really hold them yourself? That is after all, why they call it "faith". Your level of tolerance is actually defined by your response to those opposing views.

 

DCC

 

Very well said. I think this line should be bumped to the top of the page! :o

 

"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

 

That all depends upon exactly what particular 'belief' we might be talking about.

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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

 

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.

Edited by Team Cotati
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Having a "belief" is one thing kept to ones self

Expressing that belief to others that agree or disagree is another,

Acting on those beliefs is another, all together, different thing especially if those beliefs are to the detriment of someone else's.

 

Freedom of speech is great, you speaking against "freedom" of speech is OK, you taking away my freedom of speech is wrong.

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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :o
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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :o

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

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I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed.

Others have said this is very much allowed. Personally, I'd rather find religeous items than porn (which isn't allowed), or McToys covered in mildew.

 

To each his own. If you're truely offended by these items, then no one here can really help you. Just do your best to ignore them, wash your hands thoroughly if you accidentally touch anything, and crank up the speed metal or gangsta' rap to clear your head of any unwelcome thoughts.

 

I never said I was offended by ANY of the items I have seen, I was just questioning the placement of the items. None of it fazes me, I just wanted to know a little more. Sorry for all the grief this has caused. :o

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True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life.

 

I'm also going to take the opinion that to be offended is a good thing. Strongly held beliefs come with some amount of passion, or you would never be offended (which would also say something about your faith or lack thereof). If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to some opposing views, how strongly do you really hold them yourself? That is after all, why they call it "faith". Your level of tolerance is actually defined by your response to those opposing views.

 

DCC

 

Very well said. I think this line should be bumped to the top of the page! :o

 

"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

 

That all depends upon exactly what particular 'belief' we might be talking about.

 

Actually it doesn't. You or anyone can believe in anything you want (keeping in context that we're talking about religious beliefs) and when you leave flyers in a cache saying that "God is in in the mothership an he's coming to pick us all up" I can smile, shake my head, and go on my merry way.

 

I worked for a short time with a man who was a Santería priest (link to wikipedia). He believed that he had "deities" that inhabited little jars on his desk where he kept a shrine with a little statue that he left rice and rose water for on a daily basis. I had many conversations with him over lunches and found him to be very sincere in his beliefs (more so than folk of many other religions I've met), and we had some fascinating discussions... but do I believe there were "deities" living on his desk....? Nope. Did it harm me... nope. And despite our differences I found him to be good company and generally a nice guy.

 

And don't confuse beliefs with the actions that some choose to take up... pamphlets are harmless, but if you believe that God says you should kill my pets and drink their blood... well, we may have a problem. :)

 

DCC

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...I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, ...

That's not tolerance. That's squelching religious expression so you can be free of it. Tolerance would mean that you may not like it but you tolerate it.

 

Funny, but...

 

I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other. Surely we can probably all imagine screeds or propoganda that would rub us the wrong way. Do we really want to give the green light on *encouraing* such items?.

 

Did someone call the ACLU and inform them about geocaching?

 

religion_anti.jpg

 

Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. :o

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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :o

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

You aren't using your God-given commom sense.

 

You know good and well what the discussion is. I agree with you about the religion of those people who brought us harm on 9/11, however, I don't bash them about their religion.

 

I simply wonder why in the world do they act this way? I believe it is wrong of them to bring harm on others, but I do not bash their religion.

 

I disagree with their beliefs, but I don't post threads on GC.com about them.

 

Back to th OT, (which I'm sure was concerning Christianity.) If you find a cache with a bible inside or a cross for that matter (assuming that you are not of that religion or of any religion at all) simply Pay it no mind!! Move on with your life and find the next cache!!)

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True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life.

 

I'm also going to take the opinion that to be offended is a good thing. Strongly held beliefs come with some amount of passion, or you would never be offended (which would also say something about your faith or lack thereof). If your beliefs aren't strong enough to stand up to some opposing views, how strongly do you really hold them yourself? That is after all, why they call it "faith". Your level of tolerance is actually defined by your response to those opposing views.

 

DCC

 

Very well said. I think this line should be bumped to the top of the page! :o

 

"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

 

That all depends upon exactly what particular 'belief' we might be talking about.

 

Actually it doesn't. You or anyone can believe in anything you want (keeping in context that we're talking about religious beliefs) and when you leave flyers in a cache saying that "God is in in the mothership an he's coming to pick us all up" I can smile, shake my head, and go on my merry way.

 

I worked for a short time with a man who was a Santería priest (link to wikipedia). He believed that he had "deities" that inhabited little jars on his desk where he kept a shrine with a little statue that he left rice and rose water for on a daily basis. I had many conversations with him over lunches and found him to be very sincere in his beliefs (more so than folk of many other religions I've met), and we had some fascinating discussions... but do I believe there were "deities" living on his desk....? Nope. Did it harm me... nope. And despite our differences I found him to be good company and generally a nice guy.

 

And don't confuse beliefs with the actions that some choose to take up... pamphlets are harmless, but if you believe that God says you should kill my pets and drink their blood... well, we may have a problem. :)

 

DCC

[/quote

 

History is full of examples of people who hold fervent 'beliefs' using those 'beliefs' to justify all manner of anti-social and dangerous behaviors. To ignore these people, invites such undesirable outcomes. Sadly this also includes 'religious' beliefs.

 

But if you want to restrict your point to someone leaving some piece of religious material or other in a cache, fine. Those I can and do easily ignore. They are in my opinion meaningless and harmless.

Edited by Team Cotati
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"True tolerance means that even though you may not agree with someone's beliefs, you can respect them and then go on with your own life."

That all depends upon exactly what particular 'belief' we might be talking about.

Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :o

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

You're equating passive religious propaganda with active and destructive join-us-or-die attacks? Pamphlets = murder?

 

One you are free to ignore, the other you cannot ignore. Like you, I will not hesitate to fight those who want to ram their religion down my throat at gunpoint, but I do not agree that leaving a "let me introduce you to my invisible friend" pamphlet in a geocache falls into the same category as flying airplanes into buildings and killing innocent people, no matter which invisible friend is being promoted.

 

I disagree with all religions equally. None of them offends me as long as they respect my rights to life, liberty and property. The occasional you-should-believe-like-I-do paper advertisement doesn't bother me. I actually find them to be somewhat entertaining.

 

 

You can laugh at my behavior

That'll never bother me

Say the devil is my savior

But I don't pay no heed

 

And I will go on shining

Shining like brand new

I'll never look behind me

My troubles will be few

 

Goodbye stranger

It's been nice

Hope you find your

Paradise

Tried to see your

Point of view

Hope your dreams will

All come true...

Edited by KBI
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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :unsure:

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

You get no argument from me. I'm being a bit "general" with the terms "belief" and "religion". Yes there is a caveat to my words above... if your religion says "kill people", whether those people be innocent civilians, or abortion clinic doctors, then we have a problem. If I saw flyers in caches inciting people to kill, well I have a different opinion on that.

 

Sorry, we seem to be veering off the topic here, and that was not my goal.

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History is full of examples of people who hold fervent 'beliefs' using those 'beliefs' to justify all manner of anti-social and dangerous behaviors. To ignore these people, invites such undesirable outcomes. Sadly this also includes 'religious' beliefs.

 

I think when we cross from "I don't follow your beliefs" to "Your beliefs are wrong therefore I should harm you" we're beginning a new topic.

 

I would like to say thanks to all for the reasonable, well thought out and decidedly "non-confrontational" discussion.

 

That my friends, is tolerance at its best!

 

:unsure:

 

DCC

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in my pre-2005 days i came across some nicely made rosaries and medals which were useless to me, an atheist not of convenience but of conviction and also by family tradition.

 

yet although they were little more than silly claptrap to me, i could recognize that they meant something to those who left them. i traded for some of them, thinking that another cacher somewhere might enjoy them as well.

 

my flesh did not burn, and i didn't have any time or use for resentment.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

 

one of my favorite moments of such shame was an occurrance in which a small group of people living peaceably believed in a dual nature of God and the universe. they were nominally christians, and they also believed that the Presence in the host was symbolic rather than real. a military commander brought an army in and slaughtered every man, woman, and child.

 

the operation started in 1209 and went on for a number of years. the commander was st. dominic. the town was albi, france.

 

if you're old enough to rmember the singing nun, you might be interested to know that her happy hit "dominique" was about this campaign, and the bravery of the men who fought the dangerous heresy.

 

there isn't an "us" and a "them", unless you define "them" as "people who resort to violence and cruelty for purposes of propaganda and control"

 

they're all over the globe, pal; in every religion and every country.

 

among christians "crusade" used to mean taking the cross and a whole lotta weapons and killing a bunch of guys who had unsanctioned beliefs or at least held promising real estate. these days the term gets applied to any struggle for faith and enlightenment, and this meaning is commonly understood by mainstream christians everywhere.

 

the term "jihad" is almost exactly the same in the muslim world. more than once a campaign against illiteracy has been described as "jihad". it hasn't always meant taking up a whole lotta weapons and killing a bunch of guys who had unsanctioned beliefs or at least held promising real estate.

 

 

 

 

Did someone call the ACLU and inform them about geocaching?

 

 

Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. :unsure:

 

this is just so wrong in so many ways, starting with an almost complete ignorance of what the ACLU actually does, but then i noticed who the poster was and decided not to waste any more time on the rest of the claptrap.

 

edit: spelling, not that it's any of your business.

Edited by flask
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Did someone call the ACLU and inform them about geocaching?

 

 

Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. :unsure:

 

this is just so wrong in so many ways, starting with an almost complete ignorance of what the ACLU actually does, but then i noticed who the poster was and decided not to waste any more time on the rest of the claptrap.

 

I rest my case, you where your red badge on your shoulder.

 

10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly…

 

My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemployment?Therefore, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself?I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.”

 

9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.

 

ACLU POLICY ?The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court?s long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual?s right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms.?ACLU Policy #47

 

#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.

 

#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it’s the ACLU’s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU’s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.

 

#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.

 

#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of “seperation of Church and State”, the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.

 

#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don’t practice the principles they preach.

 

Take a walk into the NYCLU?s Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you?ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.

 

#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980’s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.

 

In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it?s most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.

 

?The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that ?promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.?

 

The Rockefeller Foundation?s provisions state that recipients of its funds may not ?directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.?

 

#2. The ACLU supports child porn distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.

 

As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General?s Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child porn could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.

 

There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.

 

#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?

 

There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don’t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.

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I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed.

 

According to the site guidelines it's:

 

What shouldn't be in a cache?

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

If you find something you feel is improper you can either trade even or trade up. There's no reason to debate the issue as long as you trade. What is the value of something you think shouldn't be there? That's up to you.

 

Personally, as in every situation, I would look at the overall items and see if the cache could stand a little restocking.

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.... I can't help but think that people get offended and tell the world that they are offended for no other reason than to bully and manipulate the opposing point of view. It's just a general impression I get....

 

I tend to agree with your observation. People presume that they have some right to not be offended. They they project that to how they can use it to manipulate a situation. They don't have any such right. They only have the right to proclaim loudly how offended they are. Alas, a lot of people listen who should just blow them off.

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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :unsure:

I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

You get no argument from me. I'm being a bit "general" with the terms "belief" and "religion". Yes there is a caveat to my words above... if your religion says "kill people", whether those people be innocent civilians, or abortion clinic doctors, then we have a problem. If I saw flyers in caches inciting people to kill, well I have a different opinion on that.

 

Sorry, we seem to be veering off the topic here, and that was not my goal.

 

I have no problem with anyone's religon... EXCEPT when they try to do harm to me. ex. "The terrorists!" I do not agree with their beliefs!

 

Other than that, Christian, Buddhist, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness and anything else you can think of doesn’t bother me as far as finding traces of these religions inside a Geocache.

 

You are free to worship freely, and you also have Freedom of Speech alongside Freedom of Religion!!!!

 

Therefore if I want to place an item that relates to my religion "Christianity" in a Geocache... So be it! I will do so.

 

If I find an item placed in a cache by a cacher who has a different religion/ beliefs, I'm simply going to look over it. Pay it no mind, sign the log, go about my own business!

 

Can't we all be adults here?

Link to comment

 

 

 

Did someone call the ACLU and inform them about geocaching?

 

 

Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. :unsure:

 

this is just so wrong in so many ways, starting with an almost complete ignorance of what the ACLU actually does, but then i noticed who the poster was and decided not to waste any more time on the rest of the claptrap.

 

I rest my case, you where your red badge on your shoulder.

 

10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly…

 

My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemployment?Therefore, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself?I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.”

 

9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.

 

ACLU POLICY ?The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court?s long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual?s right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms.?ACLU Policy #47

 

#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.

 

#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it’s the ACLU’s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU’s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.

 

#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.

 

#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of “seperation of Church and State”, the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.

 

#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don’t practice the principles they preach.

 

Take a walk into the NYCLU?s Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you?ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.

 

#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980’s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.

 

In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it?s most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.

 

?The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that ?promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.?

 

The Rockefeller Foundation?s provisions state that recipients of its funds may not ?directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.?

 

#2. The ACLU supports child porn distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.

 

As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General?s Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child porn could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.

 

There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.

 

#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?

 

There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don’t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.

 

i'm sorry. i had you wrong.

 

now i realize that this is satire, like stephen colbert.

 

where do you get all this stuff? i'm working on my new show (i sometimes work as a storyteller/comedian) and i'd really like to get a hold of your sources. that's blockbuster stuff!

 

by the way, in my recent memory the aclu defended the right of the libertarian party to raffle off an AK-47. maybe you missed that one. i was outraged because i'm against raffles.

 

sorry. i was taking you seriously for a moment and forgot you're a joke.

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I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

 

If this reflects a poor understanding of Islam, the poor understanding is in the minds of the terrorists that use it to justify their violence. I don't see anything from The Jester that shows any misunderstanding of Islam on his part.

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I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

 

If this reflects a poor understanding of Islam, the poor understanding is in the minds of the terrorists that use it to justify their violence. I don't see anything from The Jester that shows any misunderstanding of Islam on his part.

 

i did not see any evidence that he considers them to be different. if in fact he is not making a tie between terrorists who happen to be muslim and muslims, i apologize.

 

onward christian soldiers...

 

/ironic humming

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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :unsure:
I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.
Perhaps I should have said "Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply in the context of this thread." There is always an exception to every rule. When they start driving GPSrs into ammo cans I'll agree with your statement.
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Actually, the same applies for any belief.

 

Just like Driver Carries Cache said, "Go on with your own life!"

 

It is simple, if you stumble upon something you do not agree with, just keeping going, pay it no mind.

No it dosen't. Not by any stretch if your or the driver's imagination.
Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply. :unsure:
I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.
Perhaps I should have said "Yes, it does. It takes imagination to think up ways that it doesn't apply in the context of this thread." There is always an exception to every rule. When they start driving GPSrs into ammo cans I'll agree with your statement.

 

uh, TTJ?

 

usually i follow you pretty clearly. i can't make sense of this one. li'l help?

 

...or should i not worry my pretty little head about it?

 

sudden derailment:

 

i was thinking of coming to visit your neck of the woods this weekend, but it didn't work out.

 

soon, i hope. i want to work it out so i can be there on a sunday.

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I'm sorry, but I'm with Team Cotati on this. We should "respect" the guys who took out the twin towers and "go on with our lives"? Sorry, I'm not tolerant of other's belief when that leads them to trying to kill me and mine.

 

this reflects a poor understanding on islam, and attempts to place blame for brutal violence of some people on an entire faith. if you'd like to survey history for atrocities motivated by religion, you have no father to look than your own backyard, in your own era. there are stupid people everywhere willing to go on crusade or jihad and to kill viciously in the name of God.

 

If this reflects a poor understanding of Islam, the poor understanding is in the minds of the terrorists that use it to justify their violence. I don't see anything from The Jester that shows any misunderstanding of Islam on his part.

 

i did not see any evidence that he considers them to be different. if in fact he is not making a tie between terrorists who happen to be muslim and muslims, i apologize.

 

onward christian soldiers...

 

/ironic humming

 

Jester, what say you? Did I miss something? I see no reference to Islam / Muslims in your post. You seem to have been refering to specific terrorists that use (their perverted form of) Islam as front.

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