This starting to annoy me

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

This term is in common English usage.

 

A full definition may be found here..

Well you live and learn. Thanks for that.

 

I must say it certainly isn't in common use. Unless you happen to be a fan of abstruse US legal jargon.

 

I guess it depends which circles you move in. It is in common usage in the sphere I tend to operate in, for example, the trade stands at Crufts have grandfathered rights to their positions year upon year. Newbies have to sit at the bottom of the pile and work their way up.

[+Sensei TSKC]

People might not like it but they shouldn't try to change the rules: that'd be like becoming the chief cook and bottle washer of FIFA (whatever that is) and then trying to change the offside rule (whatever that is)

Who are "they"? and "who" is trying to change the rules? I must have missed that bit!

[Edgemaster]

That's all very well, but how come they still allowed USA benchmarks then? I may have swallowed the very plausible explanation for dumping virtuals and creating Waymarking, were it not for that.

 

I just had a peek on Waymarking and I see the US Benchmarks category is very active, with 2000 waymarks. But yes GC.com still has a separate section (distinct from "Search for caches...") as well, and seems to be doing more business than its Waymarking equivalent.

 

Must be another jolly old anachronism I suppose. Maybe benchmark hunters can log them in both places, just as I do with trigs (on Waymarking and Trigpointing).

 

..snip..

I believe Groundspeak wants to shift benchmarking off to the Waymarking site, but since it's here, they can't remove it. There has been a push to get Canadian benchmarks recognised, but this has failed several times since 2004. The discussion is somewhere in the site forum.

[+Team Sieni]

I believe Groundspeak wants to shift benchmarking off to the Waymarking site, but since it's here, they can't remove it. There has been a push to get Canadian benchmarks recognised, but this has failed several times since 2004. The discussion is somewhere in the site forum.

 

I've just done a search of the archives and now realise that in raising this I may have provided a catalyst for rehashing some old disputes. That wasn't my intention - I was just curious, not trolling. I think I'm clued up on the history of this now. I won't mention the W word on this forum now.

 

May be best to change the subject ... It snowed on me yesterday, while I was out caching.

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

It snowed on me yesterday, while I was out caching.

 

Snow? You lucky thing!

 

Why does it always rain on me ... is it because I lied when I was 17?

[+Haggis Hunter]

It's a fairly old cache, in fact 5 years old this month. I would hazard a guess that it is very much grandfathered, and was originally approved before the stricter guidelines came into force.

Well I logged it. I was caching with a friend a few weeks ago and he told me where there was one. "Great," I thought, not really interested but then I thought I may as well log it once and it was the nearest one to me so no harm done.

 

But now I've found another one even closer. I think I'll log it again. This cache existed many years before the people who are criticising it joined. People might not like it but they shouldn’t try to change the rules: that’d be like becoming the chief cook and bottle washer of FIFA (whatever that is) and then trying to change the offside rule (whatever that is)

I'm not quite sure why I have been quoted here? I am a supporter of this particular cache, even although I have only logged it once. I am thinking about downloading the GPX file so that I can see what are close by.

[+Mr'D]

I logged my 2nd YOSM at the weekend and now look what's happened to my stats:

 

 

 

Jon

[+jerryo]

I'm not quite sure why I have been quoted here? I am a supporter of this particular cache, even although I have only logged it once. I am thinking about downloading the GPX file so that I can see what are close by.

I quoted you because as you said: "It's a fairly old cache, in fact 5 years old this month..." and I expanded your temporal point in my post: "This cache existed many years before the people who are criticising it joined." rather ronically I tried to find a second YOSM today but couldn't!

[+jerryo]

Who are "they"? and "who" is trying to change the rules? I must have missed that bit!

Hmmm. Valid point. My bad; I should have said "whinge about the rules."

Then again, what's wrong with complaining about the rules? If you think changing them would improve the game then you're certainly entitled to do that. I certainly would have championed your post if you'd been "wanting to change the rules" about logging one's own caches.

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

I logged my 2nd YOSM at the weekend and now look what's happened to my stats:

 

 

 

Jon

 

ROTFL at you for not thinking ahead

[+Mr'D]

ROTFL at you for not thinking ahead

You said it Wendy!

 

A bit strange in GSAK too... only shows the most recent YOSM logged but the total count is correct?

Well it's only numbers, and we all know I am not a bla bla bla

[outforthehunt]

I'd like to jump in here if I may and add some information on this cache. When I first set it up back in March 2002 I never thought that it would cause such a controversy!

As a surveyor and geocacher I thought it was an interesting idea for a new type of geocache. I knew that it would not appeal to everyone as there would be no trades but thought that if I can get you out for a walk and sometimes add some history or maybe a view and introduce you to new areas you had never been to then it may be of interest.

If you map all 224 locations you will see that I have tried to cover a large area and hopefully help create some more interest in geocaching. Some of the locations are set for cachers that have very few traditional caches but at least it helped keep their interest in geocaching.

It was never set up to pad your numbers.

The cache has over 900 logs and 73 cache watchers and if you check the logs it seems that most of the Survey Monument hunters enjoy the cache. I sure enjoy the photo's. I know you are thinking how can anyone get excited about a picture of a tiny piece of metal in the ground or large lump of concrete in a field .......I guess it's the surveyor in me

Anyway I haven't been to your great country but plan on visiting. One of the first things I'm planning to do is find a trig.Maybe I can hook up with some of you for the hunt.

All the best outforthehunt

[nobby.nobbs]

the thing i like i s that we can have these discussions without the need for the mods to pour cold water on them to calm them down.

 

like lots of things, when they bring in the prizes for 1000 caches then i will worry about how many times other people log caches. the only time i apply my beliefs on others is when they log my caches.

[+Foinavon]

I'd like to jump in here if I may and add some information on this cache. When I first set it up back in March 2002 I never thought that it would cause such a controversy!

As a surveyor and geocacher I thought it was an interesting idea for a new type of geocache. I knew that it would not appeal to everyone as there would be no trades but thought that if I can get you out for a walk and sometimes add some history or maybe a view and introduce you to new areas you had never been to then it may be of interest.

If you map all 224 locations you will see that I have tried to cover a large area and hopefully help create some more interest in geocaching. Some of the locations are set for cachers that have very few traditional caches but at least it helped keep their interest in geocaching.

It was never set up to pad your numbers.

The cache has over 900 logs and 73 cache watchers and if you check the logs it seems that most of the Survey Monument hunters enjoy the cache. I sure enjoy the photo's. I know you are thinking how can anyone get excited about a picture of a tiny piece of metal in the ground or large lump of concrete in a field .......I guess it's the surveyor in me

Anyway I haven't been to your great country but plan on visiting. One of the first things I'm planning to do is find a trig.Maybe I can hook up with some of you for the hunt.

All the best outforthehunt

 

I am glad to see you come in and join the debate OutForTheHunt. Out of interest can you tell us how you decide which is to be the next "Active" trig. Is it just random? Do you try and ensure they are evenly distributed over the uk (which of course if it was random they would be over time).

[+Sensei TSKC]

Like lots of things, when they bring in the prizes for 1000 caches then i will worry about how many times other people log caches.

If they do, then they'd better do it pretty soon.

[Edgemaster]

I am glad to see you come in and join the debate OutForTheHunt. Out of interest can you tell us how you decide which is to be the next "Active" trig. Is it just random? Do you try and ensure they are evenly distributed over the uk (which of course if it was random they would be over time).

 

I have been wondering a little too, there is a natural differences in trig density across the UK due to hilliness. But still, there seems to be very few YOSMs in the south, compared to the north. Maybe my thinking is just skewed from the last time I looked...

 

 

There are very few in the south west...

[markandlynn]

Just imagine this discussion if locationless caches were still arround i understand there was even one set up for road signs

 

They are a bit hard to track down but here is one if the line said

 

only one log per wall

imagine how many your find count could go up by.

 

I think for YOSM everyone except deego should be able to log it more than once

[+Mr'D]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about?

Each YOSM is a different location and so it takes an effort to get there; just the same as a cache. In fact they are probably harder to get to than many caches by definition! Treat them like another cache or simply ignore 'em!

There are exceptions of course. My nearest trig is in the middle of a forest

Jon

[+Simply Paul]

I'd just like to thank outforthehunt for setting an interesting cache which does take you places you've not been before. One request though: Can TP6131 get listed between now and mid June please

[+Haggis Hunter]

I'd just like to thank outforthehunt for setting an interesting cache which does take you places you've not been before. One request though: Can TP6131 get listed between now and mid June please

I haven't even searched that trig up, but I already know which one it is.

[+Dobunnis]

I'd just like to thank outforthehunt for setting an interesting cache which does take you places you've not been before. One request though: Can TP6131 get listed between now and mid June please

 

We were planning to go to that one while on a certain island if time allowed... it would be interesting,

 

Helen and Carolyn

[+maxkim]

I am glad to see you come in and join the debate OutForTheHunt. Out of interest can you tell us how you decide which is to be the next "Active" trig. Is it just random? Do you try and ensure they are evenly distributed over the uk (which of course if it was random they would be over time).

 

I have been wondering a little too, there is a natural differences in trig density across the UK due to hilliness. But still, there seems to be very few YOSMs in the south, compared to the north. Maybe my thinking is just skewed from the last time I looked...

 

 

There are very few in the south west...

 

Where do you get the image from?

[+CrazyL200]

I think it's a great idea.

Hand in hand with caching, I've found trig pointing can take you to some great locations.

While some are in the middle of fields, others are drive bys, others are a good walk into the hills, or in some other interesting location etc...

 

Without these landmarks and without Geocaching, I wouldn't have visited so many different places and the great thing is, sometimes, you don't know what the location is going to be like until you get there.

 

Having just found out about GC45CC, I now find myself back tracking my trig logs and caching trip records to see which ones I've been to can qualify for a log entry.

 

I hear what others have said about stats etc... but that's not the point. The point is (for me, anyway) the fun and enjoyment of the search and the location.

[+Malpas Wanderer]

I'd like to jump in here if I may and add some information on this cache. When I first set it up back in March 2002 I never thought that it would cause such a controversy!

As a surveyor and geocacher I thought it was an interesting idea for a new type of geocache. I knew that it would not appeal to everyone as there would be no trades but thought that if I can get you out for a walk and sometimes add some history or maybe a view and introduce you to new areas you had never been to then it may be of interest.

If you map all 224 locations you will see that I have tried to cover a large area and hopefully help create some more interest in geocaching. Some of the locations are set for cachers that have very few traditional caches but at least it helped keep their interest in geocaching.

It was never set up to pad your numbers.

The cache has over 900 logs and 73 cache watchers and if you check the logs it seems that most of the Survey Monument hunters enjoy the cache. I sure enjoy the photo's. I know you are thinking how can anyone get excited about a picture of a tiny piece of metal in the ground or large lump of concrete in a field .......I guess it's the surveyor in me

Anyway I haven't been to your great country but plan on visiting. One of the first things I'm planning to do is find a trig.Maybe I can hook up with some of you for the hunt.

All the best outforthehunt

 

I've not done the number crunching and will probably get scolded for the lapse. I expect though that UK cache numbers and indeed cache teams were quite low when the cache was originally set.

 

It must have taken outforthehunt considerable effort both at the outset and throughout the run of the cache, something that is greatly lacking by many cache placers of late.

 

How many caches do we see with need maintenance flags for weeks on end? How many maintenance logs do we see on caches? Very few.

 

Although I have not done any of the YOSM caches I praise outforthehunt for setting up such a novel cache and having the dedication to maintain it for 5 years.

 

What will be the next topic to create 100s of posts or will we be back to XXX now the camping season is about to resume? What a lot of hot air that was.

 

Lets keep any cache that has appeal to some of our community, there is such great choice of caches in the UK, take your choice on the ones you wish to do, and let others enjoy doing things the way the wish.

 

Thanks outforthehunt for giving so much pleasure to so many cachers over the years, long may it continue.

[Edgemaster]

There are very few in the south west...

Where do you get the image from?

It is my own (out of date) creation from Google Earth. I had meant to send it to the owner of YOSM.co.uk with the GSAK macro to create it, but either I got no reply, or the email bounced...

 

It was part of a project I had to put T:UK and OS passive station IDs into the spare fields of the GPX file offered there.

[outforthehunt]

Thanks for the kind words. Glad to see you are enjoying the hunts

 

 

Out of interest can you tell us how you decide which is to be the next "Active" trig. Is it just random?

 

Foinavon

It's random but I try to keep the areas spread out but sometimes I'll find an interesting location and then another ...... etc and they don't always end up evenly spread out

 

But still, there seems to be very few YOSMs in the south, compared to the north

 

Edgemaster

I'll check and see what I can do for that area

 

Simply Paul

No problem. I'll post it soon

 

[+Sensei TSKC]

 

Simply Paul

No problem. I'll post it soon

 

It would be much more fun if you posted it afterJuly!!!!! Make him and others start on a level playing field.

 

[+The Gecko's]

There are very few in the south west...

Where do you get the image from?

It is my own (out of date) creation from Google Earth. I had meant to send it to the owner of YOSM.co.uk with the GSAK macro to create it, but either I got no reply, or the email bounced...

 

It was part of a project I had to put T:UK and OS passive station IDs into the spare fields of the GPX file offered there.

 

Edgemaster sent me the file some time ago and intend to add it to the YOSM website in the future. The problem for me is that as far as I can tell the file needs updating manually each time a new location is added. I currently use GSAK for the other files and that is very easy but I need to work out how to update the Google Earth file. When I have some time to do that I will add it to the site and keep it updated. It would be great if GSAK could export a file for Google Earth file but as far as I know that is not available

 

Dave - The Gecko's

[Edgemaster]

There are very few in the south west...

Where do you get the image from?

It is my own (out of date) creation from Google Earth. I had meant to send it to the owner of YOSM.co.uk with the GSAK macro to create it, but either I got no reply, or the email bounced...

 

It was part of a project I had to put T:UK and OS passive station IDs into the spare fields of the GPX file offered there.

 

Edgemaster sent me the file some time ago and intend to add it to the YOSM website in the future. The problem for me is that as far as I can tell the file needs updating manually each time a new location is added. I currently use GSAK for the other files and that is very easy but I need to work out how to update the Google Earth file. When I have some time to do that I will add it to the site and keep it updated. It would be great if GSAK could export a file for Google Earth file but as far as I know that is not available

 

Dave - The Gecko's

 

I had a macro to export to Google Earth that I sent you. I'll resend.

[+Pharisee]

Two logs in the last few minutes.....

 

What's this... "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" then, Lester

[+Sensei TSKC]

Two logs in the last few minutes.....

 

What's this... "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" then, Lester

If everyone else is doing it.... C'est la vie.

 

They're close so I went and got 3 over the lat two days. It's not about the numbers though.

[+rutson]

Probably be deleted tho, the instructions in red bold writing haven't been followed

 

Please include the Name of the Monument and the latitude and longitude with your posting on the cache page

[+Sensei TSKC]

Probably be deleted tho, the instructions in red bold writing haven't been followed

 

Please include the Name of the Monument and the latitude and longitude with your posting on the cache page

If it is before I edit, then I'll repost. I supplied the required info in the email.

[+Sensei TSKC]

Looking at the last 10 posts or so, I'm not the only one who can't read!

 

[+Simply Paul]

Simply Paul

No problem. I'll post it soon

It would be much more fun if you posted it afterJuly!!!!! Make him and others start on a level playing field.

And a happy birthday (for yesterday) to you too Lester

Thanks very much OFTH, I'm sure the cachers of St Kilda will be delighted! It's believed to be the most remote Trig in Britain, by the way. A mere 63.9Km (39.7miles) from the next one.

 

By the way, what are the screw-head crosses? And why is one in the sea?

Edited March 23, 2007 by Simply Paul

[+Dobunnis]

By the way, what are the screw-head crosses? And why is one in the sea?

 

They are normally the pictures and information points that come up on Google Earth

[Alan White]

And the one in the sea is this one.

[+Simply Paul]

Thanks for that

[+John Stead]

I'm glad too to see outforthehunt has joined in the discussion as it gives me an opportunity to thank him for giving me some extra fun in caching ever since I had to ask him how to find the first YOSM I found which was a rivet well buried in grass! If he does come to the NW of England I will be more than happy to meet up with him.

 

But one detail worried me about some of the posts in that some seem to think it OK to retrospectively log YOSM finds on Trigs they found before they were included in the YOSM list - am I being mean in suggesting that is not acceptable. And I too have noticed that people are lax in not putting in their logs the name of the "Monument" and its coords - yes they may have given them to outforthehunt - but the rest of us do not know which monuments have been visited and I for one am interested to see that.

[+Sensei TSKC]

<SNIP>And I too have noticed that people are lax in not putting in their logs the name of the "Monument" and its coords - yes they may have given them to outforthehunt - but the rest of us do not know which monuments have been visited and I for one am interested to see that.

IF this comment is aimed at me then in my defence, I have named the monuments I visited!

[+jerryo]

Gahh. I give up. Edited to save me further embarrassment. Sorry I made a cock up and a really crass post: I now need to alter the log for my YOSM find. I'll do it now...

Edited March 23, 2007 by jerryo

[outforthehunt]

Thanks John

 

It does get busy around here and I do miss some things so please try to play by the cache rules. Please don't log retrospective logs as this cache has certainly gained some new interest and I don't want to loose control. I have had to delete a few postings recently. Oh yeah did I mention I really like the pictures

[+ibycus]

As a somewhat devotee of The ye' ole survey monument's cousin, the "Brass Cap Cache" I'll chime in here.

outforthehunt was one of the first cachers I ever met in person, and the host of the first event I ever attended.

 

I've found the Brass Cap cache quite a large number of times (92 to be exact, just noticed I'm WAY out of the top 10, I'll have to work on that come this summer) in different places across Alberta.

 

I've never found the YOSM cache, but I imagine its much of the same thing.

 

What has always amazed me about the brass cap cache is the sheer variety of places it brings you to. Some days, sure you can find a lot of the 'easy' ones very quickly (the same can be said for many traditional cahces, but then others, require you to do some serious planning, and effort. The places the caps have brought me to are nothing short of incredible. (little lakes I the middle of nowhere I never would have gone to, tops of mountains I would never have visited, communities in my own city I never knew existed, towns I'd never heard of). Honestly, they are highly addictive once you get in to them.

 

Given that you can find the cache either (a) at the bottom of your street, or ( at the top of a mountain a single log doesn't really make sense.

 

I look at them somewhat like a poor man's Benchmarking, but a bit different, as specific targets are set, which adds to the fun.

[+nicolo]

<HAPPINESS Mode - ON>

 

I have been noting with surprised interest recently, how many times cachers are logging the same cache, over and over again - legitimately!

 

In particular: Ye Ole Survey Monuments GC45CC

 

I just find it to be a way to have fun without actually whining about lame swag. I understand that they are different places and different monuments but ......

 

<!/HAPPINESS>

[+bones1]

regarding gc45cc,i woke up this morning with a brilliant idea gc-mole,it works like this if you are out caching and come across a mole hill if the mole is there looking about then you can log it as a cache,lol.i still dont understand if it means you can log all trig points,now that would get the numbers up eh.i have not seen yet a red flag on memory map for one of these gc45cc so how do you find one?ah my first gc-mole can be logged as the mole just came out and ran across the grass.happy caching.patandjeff=bones1.

[Edgemaster]

regarding gc45cc,i woke up this morning with a brilliant idea gc-mole,it works like this if you are out caching and come across a mole hill if the mole is there looking about then you can log it as a cache,lol.i still dont understand if it means you can log all trig points,now that would get the numbers up eh.i have not seen yet a red flag on memory map for one of these gc45cc so how do you find one?ah my first gc-mole can be logged as the mole just came out and ran across the grass.happy caching.patandjeff=bones1.

Probably because it is currently in Scotland... Only specific Trigpoints can be logged for this cache. Those specific Trigpoints have been placed into GPX, Memory Map, TomTom, AutoRoute (and soon Google Earth) files to download, use and hunt with at

http://yosm.co.uk/

Edited March 25, 2007 by Edgemaster

[+GAZ]

I've been following this thread with interest....everyone has their own views on the cache in question.

 

My own personal view is that long may it last....dunno how many I have logged....never really bothered to look, but each one was a nice enjoyable one to do. I remember doing one near Kirkby Lonsdale and left my glasses on the wall.....it was only when I was back at the car I realised......had to go back for them!! Another one took ages to find, albeit close to the road. Another one near Skelton is in a forest with loads of tracks....and I nearly sh...err, I mean jumped out of my skin when deer darted in front of us....fantastic.

 

This cache usually has a decent walk to, and generally good views.....often better than traditionals

[+ibycus]

regarding gc45cc,i woke up this morning with a brilliant idea gc-mole,it works like this if you are out caching and come across a mole hill if the mole is there looking about then you can log it as a cache,lol.i still dont understand if it means you can log all trig points,now that would get the numbers up eh.i have not seen yet a red flag on memory map for one of these gc45cc so how do you find one?ah my first gc-mole can be logged as the mole just came out and ran across the grass.happy caching.patandjeff=bones1.

 

Have you actually looked for any of these? If you had, you would know that your analogy of finding mole hills and logging them as caches is just...well silly.

 

First off, it IS NOT log any survey monument you happen to come across. (this isn't a locationless cache after all). You have to go out looking for particular monuments.

 

Here are a couple logs from the Brass Cap cache that illustrate the kinds of hunts you can get out of this cache...

BCP138 - Scotsmans Hill

 

Funny, in all the time I've lived in Calgary, I had yet to make it to Scotsmans Hill... It's quite the nice view from up here.

 

Quick find today, given the tools at my disposal.

 

-Neko & Hiiri

BCP010- Calgary (14 St SW)

Hey OFTH, I could hug you. After spending hours outside today digging through the wet snow and finding no caches except one Wal-Mart cache, this brass cap was shining like a star.

 

BCP249 - Ross Creek

The farmer of this field pulled up while I was digging. We had a nice chat and he mentioned he has ran over the cap lots with his tractor He thought I was crazy to be doing this on such a cold dayJust another weirdo from the city

 

BCP337 Hawrelak Park- South

 

This one took awhile. The cook shed referred to in the hint is no longer there.Spent some time clearing snow and detecting around ground zero but nada.

The crew took a measurment from the other object in the hint while I walked back to the truck for a new 9v battery for the vibroprobe. More detecting and probing and all we came up with was a penny (now Geonana's new good luck charm)

Decided to take the measurement again and plot a arc to search. The first measurments came up short so we now had new turf to check. While the crew was clearing the show they struck the cap. We decided we'd blame BC for the faulty measurments the first time since he had already headed back to the event site lol Took pic because we couldn't read the numbers.

 

thanks for the cap listing ofth

 

Klondike M.

 

BCP260 - Mockingbird Hill Lookout

 

Success! Took a hike out to this one in late December shortly after it was posted. At that time there was about a foot of crunchy snow in the area of the cap. Spent about 1/2 an hour digging around for it without success. Tried pacing from the various markers... No go. Vibraprobe sweeps... No go.

 

Headed out today via the back roads, took an interesting drive through Water Valley (neat little town), and wound out way over to the base of the trail. Dragged the rest of the family up with me today, and despite the complaints along the trail they all enjoyed themselves.

Found the cap clear as anything, set in concrete right where it was supposed to be. After had a nice chat with the lookout guy (Laszlo), told him all about the game (he'd seen the CSI episode ) and that he should be expecting a few more cachers out this season looking for the cap and the nearby cache.

[+nicolo]

...

Here are a couple logs from the Brass Cap cache that illustrate the kinds of hunts you can get out of this cache...

And my all-time favorite as it's the most challenging one that I did and I did it with my bud XRN95 :

 

BCP109, Mount Cory ( my log )

 

XRN95's log

[+Colourbox]

<RANT Mode - ON>

 

I have been noting with surprised interest recently, how many times cachers are logging the same cache, over and over again - legitimately!

 

In particular: Ye Ole Survey Monuments GC45CC

 

I just find it to be a way to boost the numbers without actually 'caching'. I understand that they are different places and different monuments but ......

 

</RANT>

Is there a problem here? No!

 

Here is my reasoning behind this.

 

1 Rules are rules, has one been broken?

2 Is it causing you distress, if so ignore it, no point in making it an issue, this is no good for both physical and mental health.

3 Hate nothing but bigots and celery, they are the only thing which can harm you, surly this Geocache is causing you no harm

4 There are bigger world issues to get heated about, put your energy there, not here.

 

In summary this is no issue, it is someone who is making it an issue. Calm down and chill.

 

Pippa