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First Time Placing a Cache , So much trouble ready to call it quits for good !


avalanchewolf
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Our family has been trying to place our first cache which is a pretty decent sized one at that and visited a park to place it. We spent a few hours finding the perfect spot only to find out it was 68ft from another cache.

 

Well with a red face we went back out today with all the caches within one mile to the one that was so close to and spent easily 2 - 3 hours making absolute sure that any other caches were on the green side of being able to place a cache in this park. This evening we got a response back from the Coordinator of our area telling us once again that it is too close to the same cache as before even though we phsyical were out there the whole family of 5 including the 3 young childern to make sure we were playing by the rules.

 

Stating that Caches should not be placed within 0.1 mile (528 feet) of existing caches, unless there is some sort of natural barrier between the two locations.

 

and to continue ours was :

 

Your cache is only 514 feet from this cache: (visit link)

 

THey were not out there , they did not put all this work into it only to tell their kids once again it needed to be moved. On top of this the paths in this park are winding and it is not a stright and direct shot to the cache in question.

 

Below I have posted my final response to the reviewer but hopefully this will give a wake up to the reviews out there, it doesnt have to be this hard . Before we were 68 ft and I completly understand it being so close and it being needed to move but to swable of 14 ft for someone that is placing their first cache as a family really takes every ounce of fun that this hobby has completly out of it.

 

Thanks for those that listened to my ranting I am jsut so upset with this entire deal that it is making me sick to my stomache to wonder all night if we have to go out and remove this cache again and having to explain the kids once again.

 

 

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I am sorry I just dont see why this has to be so hard and is honestly taking all of the fun out of doing this at all.

 

At the Point I was standing at where I placed our cache from ther where I marked finding the cache that you are stating ( ****** )was EXACTLY .10 Miles away ( 531 Feet ) The Other cache that was close ( ***** ) is exactly .10 miles away or (533 Feet)

 

We spent almost 2 hours , our entire family of 5 , wife myself , 8 y.o son , 6 y.o. son , 4 y.o. daughter finding a new place for this cache measuring the distance from all the other near by caches to make sure we were within the rules and playing fair. This other caches youare saying is too close is at a fast pace takes 7-8 mins walking on the trails and not cutting though the brush. There is NO WAY these caches are going to be mistaken for these even if the person is WAAAY off.

 

Per you link to Guidelines for geocaches :

This is an arbitrary distance and is just a GUIDELINE, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another.

 

Honestly if we have to move this cache again after the hours we have put into this we will just remove it and not place it again as the first time I can understand it being so close but this is in a remote location not interfering with other caches and honestly nitpicking over 14 ft even though we our selves were out there messuring this distance while you were not just blows my mind.

 

Let us know if you will enable it , if not I will go out there tomorrow to remove it and dispose of it.

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A.W., I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with your first cache. Please don't hold a grudge against the reviewers or the system if it doesn't get published. For us, cache ownership is probably the single greatest thrill in this game. Once your's is up & running, you'll see what I mean. It's worth the effort to get it published. While it might feel like you're jumping through hoops, the system really does work. Obviously, Groundspeak needed some specific distance as their standard, and 528' was picked. The reviewers can sometimes make exceptions, if there is a serious obstruction between the two, like a cliff or a river, but I'd be surprised if they made an exception because of flora, even if it was dense.

 

Some things that helped me, when I started hiding caches:

1 ) Google Earth, with the Geocaching plug in, is a great tool for getting a rough idea of where caches are placed. The icons representing each cache are not exact, and they tend to shuffle themselves around, but it's a good start. If you find an area that is cache free for several 10ths of a mile, you should be OK. If you're gonna place a cache in an area that already has some, you can create a marker at the correct coordinates and measure between them and where you're thinking of hiding your's.

 

2 ) If you do your research before you do your legwork, the end results are usually more favorable. Find the general area using Google Earth. Double check any nearby caches for distance. Write an E-mail to your reviewer telling them where you'd like to hide your cache, so they can check to see if any other hiders have aspirations for that location. Another cacher may have submitted one for review that hasn't shown up yet. Because they were there before you were, your cache would get rejected. If there is no pending cache in the area you picked, you're good to go.

 

It sounds like you put a lot of thought into your hide. I hope you continue your efforts until it gets published.

Good luck!

-Sean-

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I don't know your specifics, but isn't it possible to actually move your cache 14 more feet away? I mean, as you say 14 feet isn't that much. Also, when placing you should "go to" the nearest cache on your gps so you know when you're over 0.1 miles. That way you don't have to find out later on. Make sure you're 0.11 miles to have that extra 50 feet of error on your side.

 

I feel for you though, don't give up!

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Some things that helped me, when I started hiding caches:

1 ) Google Earth, with the Geocaching plug in, is a great tool for getting a rough idea of where caches are placed. The icons representing each cache are not exact, and they tend to shuffle themselves around, but it's a good start. If you find an area that is cache free for several 10ths of a mile, you should be OK. If you're gonna place a cache in an area that already has some, you can create a marker at the correct coordinates and measure between them and where you're thinking of hiding your's.

 

Using Google Earth, as Sean stated, is absolutely the best way to start. In using the last cache you logged I pulled it up and when enabled the Geocaching Network KML the ones in that park area popped up. I also showed a big area where there are no caches. It looks like across the road near Medical Plaza Drive there is a large section of the paths that do not have a cache. If you are not using GE then I highly recommend that you install it, it is free, and use it as the basic tool to start your placement. Also be sure and download the KML that is on your "My Account Details" page.

 

The real neat part of GE is that in the Fly To section you can put in a position and GE will put an X on that spot. You can then measure to the nearest and see if it should be ok. The reviewers us a program very simular to this to do the same thing. The GE pins will "float" around but if you click on them and bring up the cache page you can highlight and copy the cache position and then put it into GE and get the exact postion. You can then measure quite accurately.

 

I have placed several skirt lifters just using GE. I get the position and then go "find" the location and place the cache. I have also place several that I notice a specific tree or feature. I determine that position and in several cases I have not moved the position at all for the final position of the cache.

 

So don't get to frustrated. There are tools around that will help you place caches. As you place a few you find it a lot easier with each one which will allow you to get even more creative with your placements. If you need any more help then contact me via email and I will see if I can help.

:D

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Placing a cache is actually a very easy process if you adhere to the guidelines. If you don't you will encounter trouble as you have noticed. I get a kick out of the people who place caches that violate the guidelines, then come here to complain that the process is too much trouble because their cache has been rejected.

 

The .1 mile guideline is a minimum, not a goal to shoot for. If you try to put your cache exactly .1 mile from another cache, the position error in your GPS means that you take the risk that the coords given will be within that .1 mile limit.

 

Read the guidelines, do about 30 seconds of research on the caches in the area and you will not have a problem placing your caches. Very simple.

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Been there, Done that, didn't get all PO'd about it though. :D

My first hide I had to move the final and a stage three times to get it right, then another cache was published a day before I submitted so I had to go move again.

Hey, no biggie, we now know that park quite well! :D

Now I have a new hidey place in the same park I'm thinking about,

maybe I'll call it "A proliferation of caches"!

Whacha think Riff? :D

I am also laying out another multi in different park and I know I have probably 6 hours into it already.

And if I don't get it posted soon, someone else may well place one that could throw a wrench in the works and have to start over. But it will be a great cache (if I do say so myself) when I'm done and hoefully it will be well received.

Don't fret over it. I like the .11 miles myself, as there is a certin amount of error in these things.

PP

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I have a good deal of sympathy for the difficulties of novice cache placers, especially in cache dense urban areas. Even if they try to do their homework by reading the listing guidelines, they often haven't quite grasped loading all the nearby caches in the GPSr and using the "go to" function for distance, or understand that it had better be reading .11 or .12 and not .10 or they're liable to be under 528'

 

Additionally, even if they avoid all the nearby traditionals, there are puzzle cache solutions and stages of multis. It used to be reasonable to expect a cacher to find just about everything in their area, so they could know where this stuff is, but I don't think that's true now - or at least it can be very difficult.

 

And the website is complex. Those of us that have been using it for a while are comfortable with it, but there are a ton of links on every page, including the cache submit form. As to reading the listing guidelines, I think the internet has conditioned us to check those little boxes without reflection (and certainly without actually reading anything). I don't think I read the Terms of Use until I became a reviewer.

 

Please go move your hide 20 feet and edit the page. You'll enjoy owning it once it's listed, and forget about the initial difficulties of placement when the logs come in.

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It seems, to me, that being reasonable should be the rule in following the guidelines . . . consider the purpose of the guideline and how it applies to the situation, rather than being rigid and unreasonable in application of a guideline as if it were some law.

 

If the situation does not allow for one to inadvertantly locate the second cache while searching for the first one and does not lend to area saturation . . . why not approve it? After all, a reviewer is not a law enforcement officer but someone who volunteers at measurable personal sacrifice to maintain & improve the value of the game for everyone - approving caches in a reasonable manner would satisfy this consideration.

 

Having contributed, it may be contrary now to remark that the forums are not the best place for this conversation as it would better be served directly between the reviewer and the cacher . . . now, the cackles :D are up and the difficulty of a considered/reasonable resolution is enhanced.

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It seems, to me, that being reasonable should be the rule in following the guidelines . . . consider the purpose of the guideline and how it applies to the situation, rather than being rigid and unreasonable in application of a guideline as if it were some law.

 

If the situation does not allow for one to inadvertantly locate the second cache while searching for the first one and does not lend to area saturation . . . why not approve it?

(Emphasis added)

 

I checked, and within a 2,000 foot radius drawn around the OP's proposed cache location, there are already nine geocaches. Perhaps the reviewer felt that a tenth cache *was* contributing to "saturation," which is when we get a bit stricter in applying the 528 foot test. Yes, we can make exceptions... and they are granted fairly often. But we're asked to be a bit more rigorous when it's a park. One purpose of the cache saturation guideline is to help promote a positive perception when a land manager looks at the map of geocaches in their park.

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It's just the way it goes sometimes!

 

I spent several hours putting together a multi recently including getting the waypoint cards laminated.

 

I went back to publish the cache and found a cache sitting smack in the middle of it. It sucks, but it is the way the game is played.

 

I would suggest finding a new area to hide a cache where there are none. It brings people to new areas they have never been to. Check out my profile and my currant goal. I want to get a cache into every public park in my city (47 of them) There are a ton of parks that have never been touched by cachers and the people in my area seem to enjoy it. They would much rather go somewhere new, than to visit the same old place over and over.

 

Jeff

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There are cache owners and cache seekers. Some people just love hiding caches and waiting for someone to find them, but there are some difficulties that can arise which cache owners may have to deal with.

1. appeasing the GC reviewers.

2. muggles and stolen caches

3. maitenance runs that require trips to and from cache (usually more frequent in high traffic areas)

a. animals chewed holes in it

b. missing pencil, log, clues

c. leaks and wet contents

d. broken or missing container

e. container not in hiding place but exposed for all to see

4. obtaining permission for hide

a. local regulations

5. need to move cache because of environmental impact

a.seekers tearing up things as they look for cache or overuse of area

6. proper placement of cache where

a. the cache won't be preceived as a bomb threat by police

b. seekers won't be preceived as perverts or threats by residents

7. family friendly (unless indicated otherwise)

a. avoidance of dangers to children-near busy roads, riverbanks, steep cliffs

b. removal of non- family friendly items from cache

(Hopefully you now have a better appreciation for hiders.)

I think it's great that you're willing to plant a cache for others to enjoy. May you get plenty of enjoyment from lots of positive feedback. I hope you can get the coordinates worked out without too much more trouble with your reviewer.Try not to sweat it- we all go through it.

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I appreciate that you are trying to contribute to our little hobby. I have long believed that cachers have little right to complain until they have placed at least 1 cache. No ratio. No rule. Just find somewhere to put just one out. Having said that: you will find that working with the volunteer reviewers will make your geocaching a lot easier. Your reviewer apparently found good reason to deny an exception to the 528. Work it out and you will have a cache ready for others to find. Next time, try and be more generous with your distance and keep in mind that our handheld GPS units have some margin of error.

 

Good Luck with your cache!

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THey were not out there , they did not put all this work into it only to tell their kids once again it needed to be moved.

 

We spent almost 2 hours , our entire family of 5 , wife myself , 8 y.o son , 6 y.o. son , 4 y.o. daughter finding a new place for this cache measuring the distance from all the other near by caches to make sure we were within the rules and playing fair.

 

AW - Part of being a parent is teaching your kids the reasons for playing by the rules and that the rules are often there for reasons that may not initially be obvious to everyone. Take this as a learning opportunity for the entire family and give it a positive spin. More family time together, another chance to be out in the park as a family, a chance to improve the hide and make it harder for the other cachers to find, a brief lesson on playing well with others... Your family sounds lovely and you are very lucky that they are willing to go out there with you! I could only wish that my father would have spent as much quality time with me when I was little.

 

First hides are always hard - but anything worth doing is rarely easy. It is part of the fun of caching - knowing that the real reason you're out hiking around looking for a box in the woods has nothing to do with the contents of the box and everything to do with journey to find it. Enjoy the journey, both to the caches that you find and to placing your first cache. I know that in the end, you'll be like the rest of us, fondly remembering the time it took to get there.

 

Have fun!

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I understand you wanting to place your first hide, especially with full family participation. And I also understand the difficulty of trying to find a "good" place to hide a cache in a saturated urban/suburban area (there are dozens of caches within a mile of where I'm sitting right now).

 

However, if you're having that much trouble finding a spot more than .1 mile from an existing cache in that park, why not go somewhere else for your first cache? Keystone posted that there are already 9 caches within 1/2 mile of your point... do you *really* need a 10th?

 

One or two caches in a small park, with maybe a few more in a large park, is more than sufficient. Too many caches in a small area just means that visitors can't find all of them in a reasonable time, or spend all their time looking for caches instead of enjoying the park... and isn't that one of the main reasons for geocaching? To find and enjoy new recreation areas?

 

J-Way

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I can understand your dilema and only glad that where I am we don't have a cache saturation problem. IF it were me I would also try and find a different park to put the cache in. Rules are rules and in my opinion I think 10 caches is too many in the first place to be so close to one another. Take the kids to a totally different park and explore a new place, Im sure you can find another nice spot to bring people to.

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I will I guess to the right thing and remove the cache

 

We did use the nearest feautre on our GPS , we even used a measurement wheel to make sure the distances are right. And we also used the google earth feature as well.

 

Yes this area where we live is staturated with Caches , just within 5 miles of our house ( zip 95610 ) There are 398 caches !!!

 

Within 10 miles that jumps to a stagering 1076 caches !!! 20 Miles 1757 caches.

 

If a responsible person trying to contribute to the game and not just take , is supposed to have it within a good distance to keep it maintianed how is one even supposed to get a cached placed with stats like this.

 

I am going out there now to remove the cache. I thank you for your comments and views.

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I'm sorry to see a cache not get placed because someone had a bad experience.

 

However, if someone can't follow the guidelines when placing a cache, they might not also follow the guidelines about maintaining their cache, and it may be a good thing we have one less soggy log book that sits out there for months until it's archived and becomes geo-litter.

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The waiting time for approval can sometimes be frustrating, but in this game, patience is a virtue. :(

 

From where I sit, I think the reviewers in this game have probably got the most thankless job on the web. All they have to work with is what we put in our listings, and the waypoints we provide. They have to, somehow, take that limited information and extract some picture of the cache's location is relation to other caches, railway beds, highways, other dangerous locations, compare it to "possible terrorist locations", and so on.

 

Then, using their best judgement, they either approve it or try to get answers for any concerns that might be raised. I think they try hard to avoid turning down a submission, but when they do, they usually have a real good reason. Also, I've learned from past experience that the reviewers do talk to each other in their own forum, seek opinions from other reviewers, and actually work at their reviewing tasks. I think if they can't decide on a cache, they seek good counsel among their peers.

 

And, they have to do all this in a timely manner, in between real-life work and family obligations.

 

I'd say if the reviewer says it's too close, or needs to be placed elsewhere, he or she is probably on the mark.

 

But, don't toss the idea of placing the cache, but instead, find a new place. Take cachers to a place they haven't been, not the same park they're already visited. Half the fun of hiding a cache is finding that perfect hiding place. If you have to find that hiding place twice, it's just that much more fun.

 

Above all, be patient, and use the reviewer's observations as a learning opportunity. :(

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Sorry you are having a hard time placing your cache where it can be approved.

 

Good news is that you get to spend another day outside in the fresh air doing something fun with your entire family! Woo Hoo!!!! Really, it's all a matter of perspective. Now get out there and have some fun!

 

Chris

 

Now that's a great attitude!

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I'm sorry to see a cache not get placed because someone had a bad experience.

 

However, if someone can't follow the guidelines when placing a cache, they might not also follow the guidelines about maintaining their cache, and it may be a good thing we have one less soggy log book that sits out there for months until it's archived and becomes geo-litter.

 

How was I not following the guidelines ??

 

Yes the first time it was too close to another cache . I openly admitted that. Then I went back out and moved it. I checked all caches within a mile to no closer than 528 ft and that the DME showed all caches on two of which were close but were all .10 miles away one of which is a mirco and you need tweezers ( by the word of who placed it ) to retrieve it.

 

I completely understand the staturation guidelines but these are really not that close. But i feel left in the cold when standing at one of the nearby caches I can pull up 2 other caches with 350 ft of it but those seemed to get posted without problems and on top of the to get to the other 2 caches you have to climb through a hole in a chain linked fence that says stay out and is within 50 ft of the freeway with no protection from the traffic. While these caches were not disputed with placing ours , still While others have broken the guidelines and risked others saftey in placing caches ,those that are following them are told no.

 

AW - Part of being a parent is teaching your kids the reasons for playing by the rules and that the rules are often there for reasons that may not initially be obvious to everyone. Take this as a learning opportunity for the entire family and give it a positive spin. More family time together, another chance to be out in the park as a family, a chance to improve the hide and make it harder for the other cachers to find, a brief lesson on playing well with others

 

If having your son read the guidelines , work the GPS to confirm it now conforms to the guidelines and then measuring the distance with a DME equpiment from point to point. Well then I guess I am not the right person to teach them how to play by the rules.

 

On the images you will see 002 as the first placement which was too close. The end point is the place we were told was still too close. Just would help if reviewers took more time to review cache details like this and not just punch in coords with DME and see the stright line was under the messurement. The only time this system would work in in a flat open field and over time that field wouldnt be much to look at after

 

5. need to move cache because of environmental impact

a.seekers tearing up things as they look for cache or overuse of area

 

distance.jpg

 

distance2.jpg

 

Like I said I removed the cache and asked the reviewer to delete the listing. Maybe one day we will move to an area/city where geocaching is not so popular and we wont have these problems , until then we still had the family experiance of building the cache and trying to place it.

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I completely understand the staturation guidelines but these are really not that close. But i feel left in the cold when standing at one of the nearby caches I can pull up 2 other caches with 350 ft of it but those seemed to get posted without problems and on top of the to get to the other 2 caches you have to climb through a hole in a chain linked fence that says stay out and is within 50 ft of the freeway with no protection from the traffic. While these caches were not disputed with placing ours , still While others have broken the guidelines and risked others saftey in placing caches ,those that are following them are told no.

Was that cache that was 350' away from the other two a virtual? Since there was no physical container, they were allowed to be closer to other caches than the 0.1 mi limit.

 

Also, if a cache was placed in an area marked as "KEEP OUT" or "NO TRESPASSING", that is most likely a violation of the guidelines (if it's in a posted-keep-out place that pedestrians are normally allowed, chances are that the hider did not obtain adequate permission first). You might want to report that with a Needs Maintenance or even a Needs Archived note.

 

-eP

Edited by ePeterso2
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I'm sorry to see a cache not get placed because someone had a bad experience.

 

However, if someone can't follow the guidelines when placing a cache, they might not also follow the guidelines about maintaining their cache, and it may be a good thing we have one less soggy log book that sits out there for months until it's archived and becomes geo-litter.

 

How was I not following the guidelines ??

By placing your cache closer than 528 feet. It appears that you counted the distance you'd have to walk along the path instead of "distance between caches".

 

But even if you didn't, and I've misunderstood your pictures, the coordinates you gave the reviewer were closer than 528 feet. When finding out you were still within the radius of being too close why didn't you go move it a little further, or find a new place? Why complain that a reviewer wouldn't bend the rules for you?

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I completely understand the staturation guidelines but these are really not that close. But i feel left in the cold when standing at one of the nearby caches I can pull up 2 other caches with 350 ft of it but those seemed to get posted without problems and on top of the to get to the other 2 caches you have to climb through a hole in a chain linked fence that says stay out and is within 50 ft of the freeway with no protection from the traffic. While these caches were not disputed with placing ours , still While others have broken the guidelines and risked others saftey in placing caches ,those that are following them are told no.
Also, if a cache was placed in an area marked as "KEEP OUT" or "NO TRESPASSING", that is most likely a violation of the guidelines (if it's in a posted-keep-out place that pedestrians are normally allowed, chances are that the hider did not obtain adequate permission first). You might want to report that with a Needs Maintenance or even a Needs Archived note.

 

-eP

A common beginner mistake is to just try and follow the arrow to the cache. First in the car, and then when they can't drive any further on foot. I've found plenty of caches that were within 50-100ft of a freeway, yet required several miles of hiking to reach legally. Just because the closest place to park requires trespassing to reach the cache doesn't always mean you need to trespass to reach the cache.

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Sorry to see you decided not to place a cache. I always thought the distance between caches was 600 feet. That's the distance I use. Oh well, I'm probably less likely to have any problems with distance that way. When I measure distance from other caches I put the coordinates for each nearby cache in my GPS and then check each one from the spot where I want to place the cache. As long as the distance to each other cache from where I want to place the cache is more than 600 ft. I figure I'm good, but the final word is the reviewer's. Hope you'll try again some time.

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I had a simular problem when I placed 11 caches along a scenic hwy close to home.I placed at lakes,Old cabins and campgrounds along a 30 mile strech of this hwy.It almost wasnt approved because of the saturation thing.But I was pessistant and worked with my approver until it was approved.The closest cache was well over a mile from the nearest cache at the time.

If I was in your shoes I would place the cache in an area that was special to me far away from the park in question.There has to be a place where you would like others to see that doesnt have any caches.

Just dont give up because the park already has plenty of caches.

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There is remarkably low turnover in the volunteer group. In fact, not enough have left that would permit me to use words like "generally" to describe any of their circumstances.

 

To get a cache published this year, I'd advise against adopting the strategy of waiting for your cache reviewer to get fed up and move on. Picking a different spot this weekend would be faster.

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Within 10 miles that jumps to a stagering 1076 caches !!! 20 Miles 1757 caches.

 

 

1,076 caches within 10 miles of your house????? Gee whillikers! We don't have that many in our entire state!

 

May I offer a suggestion? Instead of dumping the idea of hiding a cache, look for a spot 20 or 25 miles from your house that you can access easily, and place the cache there. Pick an area, download all the caches within two miles of that spot, and look for an empty area. Go visit it, and see if there's a place that would be a good hiding place.

 

Find a place that will take cachers somewhere new, somewhere different. Find a monument, an old school, a hiking trail, a train depot, a strange tree, somewhere that hasn't been used. Being the first one to think of a new way to hide a cache is as much fun as being the first to find a new cache.

 

Tell the kids the first spot they chose to hide the cache must have been a really good one, since nine other people had decided to hide one in almost the same place. I've hidden only seven caches, but I've learned in the process that hiding the cache is the easy part, it's the homework before the cache is hidden that takes the time and effort. Even a park-n-grab can take a good bit of homework these days.

 

Please post the GC number of your hide here when it's approved, I'd love to see what you come up with!

 

Happy trails............

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To get a cache published this year, I'd advise against adopting the strategy of waiting for your cache reviewer to get fed up and move on. Picking a different spot this weekend would be faster.

 

I think its only a matter of moving it 15 feet. Heck, he probably doesn't need to move the cache. If he provides coords 15 feet in the right direction, they will still be within the normal margin of error.

 

Actually, considering the built in error in GPS units, his cache might actually be OK, but the the coords are off a bit in the wrong direction. Taking another reading at the cache site may well give him the 528 ft. buffer required.

Edited by briansnat
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Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I am having the same problem with my first cache. I cant find a spot I like that isn't to close to another cache.... that isn't my reviewers fault. And yes I do enjoy the days I get to go adventuring outside.

 

The guideline/rule is a 528 foot distance (straight line from cache, not how you decide to walk it.). There are two caches in that area that are only 1049.55 feet apart, so the mid-point, right where you want to place your cache is at best 525 feet from either cache. I know 3 feet seems very very petty, but if the guideline/rules get bent for 3 feet then someone will expect them to get bent for 5', then 6', 8', 10', 132' and finally 527'. Why not just play by the rules.

 

I hope this might help you for your location.

10495ftvr7.png

Restricted Zones:

528ftqp9.jpg

Edited by Syndam
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I find it helpful to not regard the review/placer relationship as adversarial, but rather as mutually beneficial. You have an idea, the reviewer provides a sounding board to some degree and that little pause between placement, approval and published gives time to tweak, refine and perhaps re think it so that it is better for all concerned--including those who will come to find it and those who have made prior close by placements.

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I'm with you. Sometimes a good spot is a good spot and that's all there is to it.

 

On cache in a park in American Falls is about 300' from another cache. 528' is a parking lot. 300' is a rock face with tree cover that forms a natural barrier from being seen hunting the cache. Plus you have to climb up about 30' to get to the location of the cache.

 

The reviewer commended me for my great explanation of why the cache should be approved and said "no".

 

Another one I placed was about 250' from two caches. One behind the dog pound and one 15' from the edge of the road. Mine you climb up a rock crack into a natural cleft in the cliff. The place you climb up at is hidden from the road view by trees and the access is in a park area. Too good of a spot to pass up. But not listed on geocaching.com.

 

Bottom line, you make your case, and take the answer. If this site won't list it, you list it on another caching website. Less people will find the cache but if it's a truly good cache it should be placed.

 

The guidelines are guidelines. Cache saturation is an artificial issue and subjective without specific concerns from actual land owners being on the table. Your reviewer may know things from Groundspeak that you don't, but those same things they should be making you aware of because it's your town, your park, and your cache.

 

When a reviewer says "no" it's not personal. It's business. It can be hard to remember that.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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When people criticize the attitude of responses in many threads, they must not read ones like this. Pretty much every response was constructive, helpful and positive. The OP doesn't seem to like these responses, rather was maybe looking to have people agree with him (heck, we all do that sometimes).

 

Respecting and working with the rules makes the game work better, and will help the OP's children see that hard work isn't all that matters - one has to work smart as well as hard, and when they see the results of this hard work, they'll realize that life returns what you honestly invest, not simply what you feel you are entitled to. Learn the rules, respect the rule makers/enforcers, adapt the attitude, enjoy the process, correct your mistakes, and reap the rewards - those are the lessons for children (and all of the rest of us) to learn.

 

Thanks all for great responses.

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probably a good thing that there's not yet another cache as close as possible. just because a cache every few hundred feet is allowed doesn't mean it's a good thing that there's agrid of caches exactly that close together.

 

and I'd agree with the idea that this guy really wasn't likely to have a good cache. Anyone that impatient and unwilling to follow the rules really shouldn't even be allowed to own a cache in my opinion. (not to mention be a parent. what kind of lesson is that? we won't follow the rules, then we'll quit when called on it. jeez.)

 

I see no problem here, the system worked.

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After re-reading post #9, never mind... my comments were probably irrelevant to the particular cache in question.

 

Post deleted

Wow... thank you for considering what I had to say. I read your original post and, while it's generally correct to say that there should be flexibility with this guideline, when the area is already cache-rich the reviewer may be stricter. So you were right and I was right. Deciding when to grant exceptions is one of the most challenging aspects of being a cache reviewer. It's hard sometimes to be "flexible" and "consistent" at the same time.

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I like that many people have given you encouragement. I know that recently I dealt with having a cache not approved. I wasn't angry, but disappointed. We went out and found great hiding locations for my multi, but it was too close to other caches and some stages of a multi. (Be sure to check and see if a multi is nearby, it's stages are also subject to the .1 mi rule).

 

I would take a look at Google earth if you can. That's how I found where I will be placing my next one. I really wanted to write to encourage you to not give up. I know that the location was great (like mine, perfect place!) but I'm sure you can find a new place, it may just take some time.

 

As for the kids or whoever else you hid the cache with, you can ask them to help you with the new location search on Google Earth, or validate how important they were in thinking about what to hide/designing the cache.

 

So good luck, I hope you find a good place soon.

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After re-reading post #9, never mind... my comments were probably irrelevant to the particular cache in question.

 

Post deleted

Wow... thank you for considering what I had to say. I read your original post and, while it's generally correct to say that there should be flexibility with this guideline, when the area is already cache-rich the reviewer may be stricter. So you were right and I was right. Deciding when to grant exceptions is one of the most challenging aspects of being a cache reviewer. It's hard sometimes to be "flexible" and "consistent" at the same time.

Yep.

I would be one of the first to complain about "cookie cutter" responses (as my deleted post indicated).

 

IMO one of the biggest gripes i have with our modern society - especially with those who "judge" is the idea of "zero-tolerance".

 

Having one's hands bound by rigid rules and laws is nothing more than society sponsored laziness. It enables the school principals and judges to punish the innocent along with the guilty whilst keeping a straight face and (somehow) sleeping at night because the injustice they wrought was "not my fault."

 

Judges (and reviewers) must be allowed to "judge" not just rubber-stamp the intolerance of over-zealous law and rule-makers.

 

i am glad we have flexible GUIDELINES and not rigid rules. Thanks for reviewing and moderating with judgment.

 

I APPLAUD the reviewers' handling of each case on its own merits.

Edited by Confucius' Cat
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All I can say is -- don't give up! The guidelines saved me from placing a pretty mediocre cache -- twice -- causing me to curse the world and the reviewers, but then I started doing my homework as a result and placed a much superior cache (GC11318) on my first drop. Basically, I found an amazingly hidden little boat dock beside the construction of a major bridge (not under per safety standards and to avoid a bomb scare), with a huge amount of underbrush and a clear view of the Waterway.

 

It was worth it. The rules are there for a reason and it has been experience that, thus far, they aren't just assigned, but are mulled over and have a real-life purpose. If you can take the time out to do the research, I promise you'll eventually get comfortable with the rules and will start thinking in terms of "Now where is there public land / places with friendly owners and large swashes of land". You will feel more pride in each cache and an understanding of the difficult in placing each and every single one. In a way, it's almost always worth the effort -- trust me.

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After re-reading post #9, never mind... my comments were probably irrelevant to the particular cache in question.

 

Post deleted

Wow... thank you for considering what I had to say. I read your original post and, while it's generally correct to say that there should be flexibility with this guideline, when the area is already cache-rich the reviewer may be stricter. So you were right and I was right. Deciding when to grant exceptions is one of the most challenging aspects of being a cache reviewer. It's hard sometimes to be "flexible" and "consistent" at the same time.

Yep.

I would be one of the first to complain about "cookie cutter" responses (as my deleted post indicated).

 

IMO one of the biggest gripes i have with our modern society - especially with those who "judge" is the idea of "zero-tolerance".

 

Having one's hands bound by rigid rules and laws is nothing more than society sponsored laziness. It enables the school principals and judges to punish the innocent along with the guilty whilst keeping a straight face and (somehow) sleeping at night because the injustice they wrought was "not my fault."

 

Judges (and reviewers) must be allowed to "judge" not just rubber-stamp the intolerance of over-zealous law and rule-makers.

 

i am glad we have flexible GUIDELINES and not rigid rules. Thanks for reviewing and moderating with judgment.

 

I APPLAUD the reviewers' handling of each case on its own merits.

 

YOUR CACHE, GCXXXX, HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND REJECTED. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS, E-MAIL THE FOLLOWING NEVER-CHECKED INBOX AND WE MAY GET TO YOU ABOUT FIVE DAYS AFTER SEVEN LIGHTPOST CACHES ARE PLACED IN THE SPOT AND SURROUNDING PARKING LOTS. THANK YOU.

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YOUR CACHE, GCXXXX, HAS BEEN REVIEWED AND REJECTED. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS, E-MAIL THE FOLLOWING NEVER-CHECKED INBOX AND WE MAY GET TO YOU ABOUT FIVE DAYS AFTER SEVEN LIGHTPOST CACHES ARE PLACED IN THE SPOT AND SURROUNDING PARKING LOTS. THANK YOU.

(De-emphasis mine)

Just think, you were spared from putting out just another lame cache. :P

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Placing a cache is actually a very easy process if you adhere to the guidelines. If you don't you will encounter trouble as you have noticed. I get a kick out of the people who place caches that violate the guidelines, then come here to complain that the process is too much trouble because their cache has been rejected.

 

The .1 mile guideline is a minimum, not a goal to shoot for. If you try to put your cache exactly .1 mile from another cache, the position error in your GPS means that you take the risk that the coords given will be within that .1 mile limit.

 

Read the guidelines, do about 30 seconds of research on the caches in the area and you will not have a problem placing your caches. Very simple.

 

Boy, briansnat, your sensitivity is overwhelming! Perhaps you should avoid activities which annoy you...like not reading the posts and not being a moderator/reviewer.

 

I have to empathize with first cache placement troubles. It takes much more than 30 seconds of research. Besides, you obviously don't geocache with kids. Kid are easily disappointed and the process is definitely NOt a slam dunk for newbies.

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Placing a cache is actually a very easy process if you adhere to the guidelines. If you don't you will encounter trouble as you have noticed. I get a kick out of the people who place caches that violate the guidelines, then come here to complain that the process is too much trouble because their cache has been rejected.

 

The .1 mile guideline is a minimum, not a goal to shoot for. If you try to put your cache exactly .1 mile from another cache, the position error in your GPS means that you take the risk that the coords given will be within that .1 mile limit.

 

Read the guidelines, do about 30 seconds of research on the caches in the area and you will not have a problem placing your caches. Very simple.

 

Boy, briansnat, your sensitivity is overwhelming! Perhaps you should avoid activities which annoy you...like not reading the posts and not being a moderator/reviewer.

 

I have to empathize with first cache placement troubles. It takes much more than 30 seconds of research. Besides, you obviously don't geocache with kids. Kid are easily disappointed and the process is definitely NOt a slam dunk for newbies.

 

I have kids, and I think I have to side with briansnat on this. Do some research and teach your kids to do some research. Learn the rules and follow the rules. It's a good learning experience. At first it may take a few minutes to research info, but the OP should have put a few minutes into research before spending many hours looking for the perfect spot. The answer to placing a cache in that spot was "No". The OP should have done some research to find out why it was rejected. Turns out, as far as I can tell, it was because they where measuring the distance along the route they took (maybe not the route I would take), and not in a straight line. Lack of research. How much sugar coating does a response to that need to have? His kids are disappointed because of his failure to do a little research, not because this sport is so difficult.

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I think all of the constructive posts have probably been added on this one....yes, it sucks to have to re-do your work, especially while leading kids on a pretty good walk. I've had to do it before too.

 

I just wanted to point out that I've never had an issue with one of my placements....my first one (as a complete newbie) was approved in 10 minutes of submission and my 2nd (a week or two after) was approved within a day.

 

And yes, I've had to go back out for a 2nd hour long hike to move a cache after I submitted it and realized it was going to be too close (but completely naturally distinct) to another cache.

 

Find a new spot..explain what happened to the kids...and keep having fun in this hobby.

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Placing a cache is actually a very easy process if you adhere to the guidelines. If you don't you will encounter trouble as you have noticed. I get a kick out of the people who place caches that violate the guidelines, then come here to complain that the process is too much trouble because their cache has been rejected.

 

The .1 mile guideline is a minimum, not a goal to shoot for. If you try to put your cache exactly .1 mile from another cache, the position error in your GPS means that you take the risk that the coords given will be within that .1 mile limit.

 

Read the guidelines, do about 30 seconds of research on the caches in the area and you will not have a problem placing your caches. Very simple.

 

Boy, briansnat, your sensitivity is overwhelming! Perhaps you should avoid activities which annoy you...like not reading the posts and not being a moderator/reviewer.

 

I have to empathize with first cache placement troubles. It takes much more than 30 seconds of research. Besides, you obviously don't geocache with kids. Kid are easily disappointed and the process is definitely NOt a slam dunk for newbies.

 

I don't recall saying I was annoyed, but I am dumbfounded that the OP twice placed a cache in violation of the guidelines, then has the gall to come here with an attitude and complain about the reviewer. Sorry my response wasn't candy coated enough to suit you, but there is nothing there I would take back given the attitude of the OP.

 

When the OP submitted the cache he checked a box that said he read the guidelines. If his kids are disappointed it should be with dad for checking that box without actually reading them. It is not the reviewer's fault, it is not the system's fault and I take issue with him intimating that it is.

 

There are two ways of dealing with a justified cache rejection. Say "Oops, my bad", then re-hide the cache in accordance with the guidelines, or attack the reviewer and the system. The OP chose the latter.

Edited by briansnat
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