+BomberJjr Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) What is it about micros that cachers don't like? I understand that there are many micros out there that become redundant in style, but just because many of them are alike does not mean they should be stereotyped. I have found many great and well hidden micros that have actually stumped me. Don't blame the idea of the micro. The micro has just received a bad image due to lack of orginality and scenary. Personally I love that I can do a mix bag of caches. I do though think that micros have become too common and hidders think that they can just throw them anywhere and make them overly simple. I even think I may be to blame for at least one micro that falls under the category, but I have since learned from it and plan to only plant original, more thought out micros in the future. Edited June 19, 2006 by BomberJjr Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Wrong dept, sorry. You want "general geocaching" where the pace is fast and furious and micros are a favorite topic. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Since this topic doesn't relate to website feature requests, bug reports, etc., I am moving it to the proper forum. Quote Link to comment
+hikergps Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Here is a related post of mine from a different thread. Gotta love copy and paste: I don't get too excited about urban caches, large or small. I do like the more difficult caches, although I usually don't have much time to go find them. More difficult for me is in the terrain rating. I don't like puzzles. I do like day-long hikes to reach a cache. I have a database in GSAK that I use to keep track of caches and remote benchmarks that catch my eye. I call it my "Wishlist". I keep my list realistic, only saving gpx files of caches that for me are doable. I'm not much of a swag hunter, and to me micros are not fun. I like ammo cans or larger containers for the larger logbooks. It's interesting to sit down and read the history of the cache while you are sitting there looking at what the hider wanted you to see. Being able to read other people's experiences that they wrote in the logbook when it was sunny, raining, snowing, blowing, whatever gives you a more complete picture of why the cache is there in the first place. If I hike to a cache that has nothing inside it but a logbook full of heartfelt and descriptive logs of cacher's experiences getting there, that is a good trip. If I take the same hike to see a logbook full of "traded mccrap for mcrap, tftc!", that is a bummer. I rarely put in my online logs the same amount of personal feeling that I do into the actual logbook. I only want to share those feelings with those that worked as hard as I did to reach the cache, not with someone just surfing cache pages. I realize that this deprives the cache owner of a good log on their cache page, but when the owner does cache maintence, replaces the log book, then starts reading that logbook they will see how I felt about the cache. You just can't put many descriptors of a cache hunt down on a logbook in a micro. That's why I don't like 'em. Quote Link to comment
+Glenn Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Its a love hate thing. I love to hate them. But seriously, a lot of micros tend to have had little thought put in to them. If you want to quickly increase your find count without doing any of that outdoors stuff then micros are great. If you enjoy a nice hike, getting nature on yourself, and decent place to stash stuff then micros are not your style. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) Here is a related post of mine from a different thread. Gotta love copy and paste: I don't get too excited about urban caches, large or small. I do like the more difficult caches, although I usually don't have much time to go find them. More difficult for me is in the terrain rating. I don't like puzzles. I do like day-long hikes to reach a cache. I have a database in GSAK that I use to keep track of caches and remote benchmarks that catch my eye. I call it my "Wishlist". I keep my list realistic, only saving gpx files of caches that for me are doable. I'm not much of a swag hunter, and to me micros are not fun. I like ammo cans or larger containers for the larger logbooks. It's interesting to sit down and read the history of the cache while you are sitting there looking at what the hider wanted you to see. Being able to read other people's experiences that they wrote in the logbook when it was sunny, raining, snowing, blowing, whatever gives you a more complete picture of why the cache is there in the first place. If I hike to a cache that has nothing inside it but a logbook full of heartfelt and descriptive logs of cacher's experiences getting there, that is a good trip. If I take the same hike to see a logbook full of "traded mccrap for mcrap, tftc!", that is a bummer. I rarely put in my online logs the same amount of personal feeling that I do into the actual logbook. I only want to share those feelings with those that worked as hard as I did to reach the cache, not with someone just surfing cache pages. I realize that this deprives the cache owner of a good log on their cache page, but when the owner does cache maintence, replaces the log book, then starts reading that logbook they will see how I felt about the cache. You just can't put many descriptors of a cache hunt down on a logbook in a micro. That's why I don't like 'em. Here's my cut and paster from that thread: I currently have 12,500+ favorite micros. Not EVERYONE hates micros. I recently gave 12,500+ with logs away. They were wrapped in 300 regular to large sized caches. Edited June 19, 2006 by Snoogans Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I lie, and even love, some micros, just as I like some small caches and some regular caches and some large ones. However, it must be said that the micro-world has by far the greatest number of poorly-though out placements, and there is also the bizarre idea giong around that every guardrail in America needs to have a microcache, and that every lamppost skirt in America needs to hae a microcahe, oh, and most recently, that every row of hedges near an urban motel needs to have a micro or small cache tossed into the bushes somewhere. So, as many of us have said many times before, it is not all micros about which people are complaning, but rather a subset of them, known as lame urban micros. Enuf said. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Great! Another micro thread... Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Here's one of my postes I completely understand the argument of those that are opposed to Micro Spew™. An area can become, and in some have been, overrun with micros. Micros should not be placed in any and all locations just because you want to place a cache. The cache should match its environment and its purpose. When placing a cache the hider should consider the possible places to hide the cache, the muggle activity in the area, and the experience that he/she wants to give the hunter. In some case, this will be a micro; however this selection of the container should be part and parcel of the selection of the hide site. Selecting the container and then plopping into the first spot you see is doing the sport a disservice in my book. This does not mean that all micros are bad. If the hide site calls for a micro, then a micro hidden there would be a quality hide. I personally don’t think that the argument is just that micros are bad. I believe the problem is one of quantity over quality. Since micros are easier to hide, they lend themselves to more poor quality hides unfortunately. A micro hidden in the deeps woods makes as much since as an ammo can at the base of a statue in the center of town. They are both out of place. Micro Spew™ in my opinion states that, too many micro hides of poor quality have pushed out the possibility of a cache of good quality, by means of the large quantity. Cache overpopulation would not be a problem if caches of good quality were hidden at each location. As another point not all areas have the problem of Micro Spew™. In many rural areas it has not yet reared its ugly head. I count myself luckily to live in such a place. However there are some of the caches here that are regular caches, of the traditional type, that were placed merely to place a cache. It’s nice to have a cache any type in such a cache light area, yet this shows that even regular caches can be a problem if we allow the quality to slip. It’s is the ease with which micros can be and have been hidden that has lead to this problem. I don’t blame the micro. I blame the lazy cacher that hid the low quality cache Quote Link to comment
+wvcoalcat Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Great! Another micro thread... Hey, I see you got the weekly micro thread newsletter too!! Oops, gotta go. I see that a PDA thread is about to start. Quote Link to comment
+cache addicts Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 It doesn't really matter on the size of the cache to me, what I find the most dissapointing aspect of geocaching are the caches that can be spotted from a fair distance away mainly due to the old pile of sticks hiding method or poorly disguished caches (ie yellow tupperware lid). I'd rather hunt down a non-camo but nicely hidden micro that the obvious larger caches. I don't understand all the micro hating going around, are people just dissapointed that the larger caches aren't being posted in their area?aren't going Bottom line - if you don't like micros, don't complain about them just ignore the cache if it's posted as a such. Quote Link to comment
+seancherrymax Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 (edited) We don't like micros because we like to read the logs and see what the others who have found the cache have to say. Urban micros are OK (I mean sometime you don't have the room) but it really burns me when I see a cache 10 miles from civilization back in the woods and it's a micro. I mean come on... You have the room. Make it a real cache. Edited July 9, 2006 by seancherrymax Quote Link to comment
+Miragee Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I have some micros high up on mountains . . . and the reason they are there is because the area is really worth visiting . . . and because I could not have carried an ammo can that far . . . Quote Link to comment
+cache addicts Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 We don't like micros because we like to read the logs and see what the others who have found the cache have to say. Urban micros are OK (I mean sometime you don't have the room) but it really burns me when I see a cache 10 miles from civilization back in the woods and it's a micro. I mean come on... You have the room. Make it a real cache. Speaking from my personal experiences, I don't generally read the logs at all because I prefer to read the online logs as to avoid the biting insects. Still, why walk 10 miles for a cache you already know is a micro which you know you're not going to like? I've hidden half a dozen caches to date, 3 of those being micros. I always make the effort to at least wrap the 35mm film canister in camo duct tape if not a more intricate camo job given I have time. I enjoy the challenge of finding these little guys but agree it can be tough in a forest setting with tree cover, a more suitable cache is called for here. Quote Link to comment
+cache addicts Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I have some micros high up on mountains . . . and the reason they are there is because the area is really worth visiting . . . and because I could not have carried an ammo can that far . . . Amen brother! It's all about what works for whoever hides the cache as long as they keep in mind it has to be findable. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Its a love hate thing. I love to hate them. But seriously, a lot of micros tend to have had little thought put in to them. If you want to quickly increase your find count without doing any of that outdoors stuff then micros are great. If you enjoy a nice hike, getting nature on yourself, and decent place to stash stuff then micros are not your style. Or if urban micros are a blessing because you're physically challenged and nice hikes are hard for you to do....(durn you, Rec! *shakes fist in air*) Quote Link to comment
+Chamma Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 It doesn't really matter on the size of the cache to me, what I find the most dissapointing aspect of geocaching are the caches that can be spotted from a fair distance away mainly due to the old pile of sticks hiding method or poorly disguished caches (ie yellow tupperware lid). I'd rather hunt down a non-camo but nicely hidden micro that the obvious larger caches. I don't understand all the micro hating going around, are people just dissapointed that the larger caches aren't being posted in their area?aren't going Bottom line - if you don't like micros, don't complain about them just ignore the cache if it's posted as a such. I was recently back in the states, and came across a cache just like that. I didn't relize it was a micro until I was searching for it. I ended up being a film canister painted black set at the base of a tree. Iwas in the middle of the woods. Quote Link to comment
jamieb520 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 What fun are micro's? No no swag to trade, not much room to write or read, as far as I'm concerned I don't like them. They get lost easier, or washed away depending where they are, if they're in town, they get discovered easier, theres a good chance of getting harassed by police (with all the terrorism BS these days a geocacher could be thought to be doing all kinds of things) or getting arrested. Personally I like getting out in the wilderness, and going out in the middle of nowhere to find a tupperware container or ammo can gives the opportunity to see things that a person wouldn't see. I've only found like 28 or so cache's (one micro) and I've seen all kinds of things that I wouldn't see otherwise, and if all of those cache's were micro's then I would get really really pissed searching for hours and hours for them, so I woulnd't have gone looking for them, and I wouldn't have seen all those things or been to places that I've never been to before. In case you didn't catch my point, I do not like micro cache's, lets do away with them. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 What fun are micro's? No no swag to trade, not much room to write or read, as far as I'm concerned I don't like them. They get lost easier, or washed away depending where they are, if they're in town, they get discovered easier, theres a good chance of getting harassed by police (with all the terrorism BS these days a geocacher could be thought to be doing all kinds of things) or getting arrested. Personally I like getting out in the wilderness, and going out in the middle of nowhere to find a tupperware container or ammo can gives the opportunity to see things that a person wouldn't see. I've only found like 28 or so cache's (one micro) and I've seen all kinds of things that I wouldn't see otherwise, and if all of those cache's were micro's then I would get really really pissed searching for hours and hours for them, so I woulnd't have gone looking for them, and I wouldn't have seen all those things or been to places that I've never been to before. In case you didn't catch my point, I do not like micro cache's, lets do away with them. Unless you didn't catch my point, micros, especially the kinds in town, may be the only caches some people can do. Quote Link to comment
+thedeadpirate Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Micros have their place. If you don't want to hear the "don't like them, don't hunt them" argument again, then you may want to join in the Cache Rating thread. In that thread they are attempting to deal with the real issue, being able to weed out the "lame" caches from the good ones. (forget for a moment that lame is relative) I personally enjoy all sizes. I am beginning to enjoy the different types more as I get into doing more puzzles. Urban caches, of any size, definitely help some of us have more access to caching. Quote Link to comment
+baloo&bd Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 If you want to quickly increase your find count without doing any of that outdoors stuff then micros are great. If you enjoy a nice hike, getting nature on yourself, and decent place to stash stuff then micros are not your style. If you want to quickly increase your find count without the thrill or challenge of the hunt then stay away from micros. If you enjoy a nice hike, getting nature on yourself, the challenge of the hunt and don't need place to unload your unwanted garbage, then micros are just your style. Quote Link to comment
+seancherrymax Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Still, why walk 10 miles for a cache you already know is a micro which you know you're not going to like? I meant looking at the caches online. I see a cache way out in the woods and think "cool, I like the looks of that one". Then I see it's a micro. There are also those that are not "size" marked so it's a guessing game as to their size. Quote Link to comment
+baloo&bd Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I meant looking at the caches online. I see a cache way out in the woods and think "cool, I like the looks of that one". Then I see it's a micro. There are also those that are not "size" marked so it's a guessing game as to their size. This just doesn't make sense. You look at the cache, like the hike & area and want to do it until you see it's a micro? Is a collection of used up golf balls and old keychains from a local siding company that important to you? Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 What fun are micro's? No no swag to trade, not much room to write or read, as far as I'm concerned I don't like them. Bummer for you. Luckily if you've decided that you dislike all micros for the reasons you have given, you can choose to ignore them.They get lost easier, or washed away depending where they are, if they're in town, they get discovered easier, These are maintenance issues that micro owners must contend with. No one is forcing you to hide micros, are they?theres a good chance of getting harassed by police (with all the terrorism BS these days a geocacher could be thought to be doing all kinds of things) or getting arrested.Hmmm.... Please help me understand this position. I've been playing this game for a while now, and I've never been harassed by the police or arrested while playing. Perhaps there are some decisions that you are making that are causing you this grief.Personally I like getting out in the wilderness, and going out in the middle of nowhere to find a tupperware container or ammo can gives the opportunity to see things that a person wouldn't see. I've only found like 28 or so cache's (one micro) and I've seen all kinds of things that I wouldn't see otherwise, and if all of those cache's were micro's then I would get really really pissed searching for hours and hours for them, so I woulnd't have gone looking for them, and I wouldn't have seen all those things or been to places that I've never been to before. In case you didn't catch my point, I do not like micro cache's, lets do away with them.There is no reason to do away with them based on your post. You clearly dislike all micros. The tools are available to you that would allow you to never have to deal with another micro again. Why change the game for those people that enjoy these caches? Quote Link to comment
+pigpen4x4 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I also feel that too many micros are being improperly placed by people who will not do the work for a regular or even small cache. I have had some fun with really good micros, and have seen some really lame ones. I do like hitting a micro for the kid's, especially when they have been with Mom and Dad all day and need a diversion. Around Lake Oconee, pretty soon there will be more micros than ticks. I wish the reviewer could say, "That’s enough micros". A few are really good and appropriate. Others could easily support a regular cache. We actually spotted one as we approached in the car. I too enjoy reading the logs, something you don't get with micros. Can't move TB's through micros either. Do I hate micros? Na. Do I love 'em? Well, maybe a few. Will I do a complex multi or puzzle for one? Uh, no. Unless there is something intriguing about the area to justify it. Got that said, maybe I can sleep now! PigPen4X4 JM.02W Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I also feel that too many micros are being improperly placed by people who will not do the work for a regular or even small cache. I have had some fun with really good micros, and have seen some really lame ones. I do like hitting a micro for the kid's, especially when they have been with Mom and Dad all day and need a diversion. Around Lake Oconee, pretty soon there will be more micros than ticks. I wish the reviewer could say, "That’s enough micros". A few are really good and appropriate. Others could easily support a regular cache. We actually spotted one as we approached in the car. I too enjoy reading the logs, something you don't get with micros. Can't move TB's through micros either.Do I hate micros? Na. Do I love 'em? Well, maybe a few. Will I do a complex multi or puzzle for one? Uh, no. Unless there is something intriguing about the area to justify it. Someone else posted in best, but I will try to make the point from memory. This game has been being played for something like six years now. If the location could support a non-micro, why didn't some local cacher place one there? Since they did not place a non-micro in the location, a micro was placed there. I, personally, do not see that as a big deal. Quote Link to comment
Trinity's Crew Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) I meant looking at the caches online. I see a cache way out in the woods and think "cool, I like the looks of that one". Then I see it's a micro. There are also those that are not "size" marked so it's a guessing game as to their size. This just doesn't make sense. You look at the cache, like the hike & area and want to do it until you see it's a micro? Is a collection of used up golf balls and old keychains from a local siding company that important to you? I swore I wasn't going to post to this thread and then I found out that your status is achieved not by paying for the service or by the number of finds you have, but by post count. I understand the sentiment of the post. Looking for micros in the woods can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. I may still hike through the area if it looks like it might be cool, but I'm likely to forego looking for that micro. I should also point out that I have no specific problem with someone hiding a micro in the woods. I'm just not as likely to look for it. For those who like these types of caches, have at it. Edit: Grammar/Spelling Edited July 11, 2006 by Trinity's Crew Quote Link to comment
+ajayhawkfan Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) Edited July 19, 2006 by ajayhawkfan Quote Link to comment
+Thrak Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Micros don't have to suck and not everybody hates them. Recent log from one of my micros: When I read the description I mumbled some unpleasantries to myself. "Another annoying micro - then why place it " After I finally located it I retracted all my thoughts and unpublished words and indeed this was a fun, clever and well crafted hide. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
+pigpen4x4 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) THATS Funny! Quote Link to comment
+ajayhawkfan Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) THATS Funny! Maybe you are the only one who clicked it because no one else has said anything. Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) I sure hope the cache write up warns people about the clever urban camo. Quote Link to comment
+Jhwk Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 My biggest problem with micro caches are the proper rating. A 1/1 micro cache should be nearly impossible. It's inherently small size and the current error of our technology makes them difficult enough to begin with. Unless you hide your micro next to a big arrow and sign that says MICRO HERE ---> you should not list it as a 1/1 cache. I'll take any cache BTW. If it is near my home or travels, I will find it, no matter the difficulty. Quote Link to comment
+Jhwk Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) Now that's my kind of 1/1 cache! TFTPic Quote Link to comment
+Ed & Julie Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Another micro? Where is the love for micros? None. Only ignore. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 My biggest problem with micro caches are the proper rating. A 1/1 micro cache should be nearly impossible. It's inherently small size and the current error of our technology makes them difficult enough to begin with. Unless you hide your micro next to a big arrow and sign that says MICRO HERE ---> you should not list it as a 1/1 cache. I don't know that I agree with you. Certainly, we can agree that a micro can be hidden with a terrain rating of 1, so let's take a look at the difficulty rating. According to the rating system, for a cache to be a '1' in difficulty, it must be 'Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching'. An awful lot of micros meet this definition, in my opinion. In fact, I would say that, given the heat, every cache I find in the summer-time should have a difficulty of 1. It is way too hot and I am way too impatient to look for very long. Quote Link to comment
+boda Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 The cache pictured above was my first DNF. Lifted the lamp post skirt, but couldn't find the cache. Oh well, maybe next time. Many people don't like micros. Many do, or really don't care about them one way or another. People do go find them. As a result, many urban micros have full logs. If many people go find them and log them, and many people mark them as "ignore," what's the problem? Quote Link to comment
+Jeep_Dog Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Click to view Micro Spew (or is that a skirt lifter?) I sure hope this one had some hints posted. We wouldn't want the nearby cement trampled and dug up. Back OT, micro-spew and lack of ingenuity on a cache like this that generates longer logs and aborted hunts than some regulars in the area? The point seems moot to me. Not all regular caches are great. Not all micros are terrible. Most probable is the fact that a cache's value is probably and attribute of the effort put into the hide, not the cache's size. Yes, yes, an argument could be made due to micros being cheaper, blah blah blah, easier to find hiding spots, blah blah blah, etc cetera ad naseum, but really the only true point in all of this is - put good thought into each and every hide! Quote Link to comment
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