Getting Fed Up With Rip Off Artists!

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

Woke up this morning to a call notifying me that one of the Indiana Micro coins(trackable at gc) was on ebay. I looked through the sellers profile and noticed that none of the coins he had for sale have even been delivered to buyers yet. In fact several coins are still for sale!!! In fact just so everyone knows I was in a compassionate mood and thought "well, maybe he just bought to many geocoins and needs to recoup some of that money"(I know its easy to overspend on these things) But NO this guy just order the coins less than a week ago!!!!

 

This really ticks me off so what did I do? I refunded his dadgum money! I don't think its fair to others for him/her to sell a coin on ebay starting out at almost 2x the price that you can still buy them for.

 

Its time us geocachers start looking out for each other on these here coins. Mind you I'm not saying that people can't sell our coin on ebay but for buddha's sake please wait till ya got 'em in hand. I haven't even seen the proof of these coins yet. What if something were to happen and these coins were delayed 2months like others? Then the poor person that got ripped off on ebay will be penalized even more!!!!

 

I'm bikinibottomfeeders and I"M FED UP W/RIPOFF ARTISTS!!!!

[+AV Dezign]

We were just discussing that in the chat room the other day, the prices are astounding, so much so, that many people are attracted at selling their coins, one talked about selling what he had, get himself enought to make his own coin and then just exchanging them for the ones he sold plus a lot more.

 

The sad part, is that it would probably work. Me I can't part with anything, I want to sell some of my old comics from the 60s, but I just can't do it. I'm a pack rat collector.

Edited March 3, 2006 by AV Dezign

[ATMouse]

Hmpth...

 

I did read in another thread where a few event coins were being sold on ebay before the event to help raise money for it.

 

What think you all about that?

[+ChileHead]

Hmpth...

 

I did read in another thread where a few event coins were being sold on ebay before the event to help raise money for it.

 

What think you all about that?

 

That's a bit different ... the personal selling the event coin is the person having them minted. Still a presale, but different then the original subject I think.

[ATMouse]

Hmpth...

 

I did read in another thread where a few event coins were being sold on ebay before the event to help raise money for it.

 

What think you all about that?

 

That's a bit different ... the personal selling the event coin is the person having them minted. Still a presale, but different then the original subject I think.

 

Uhhh..sorry, a bit OT...still, ChileHead, what? (small shake of self)That's okay, I'll find the thread and pose it there...I need more coffee.

[+AtlantaGal]

I never supported presales in other items I collected over the years. So I certainly don't support them now. Plus I don't feel that particular seller's auctions indicate "presale" as clearly as eBay guidelines require. It's supposed to be in the title of the auction unless that changed over the last year.

 

I sell extras on eBay, but I don't list anything until I have it in hand. With coins, there are too many delays that can occur (as we all know too well).

[ATMouse]

I'm such a worrier, I would be afraid to offer coins before I had them in hand. That's just me.

 

OT, the idea that someone can do this is like a Ponzi sceme...Doesn't ebay have a policy about offering stuff for sale? That you HAVE to have physical possession of it?

[+Team Sand Dollar]

This really ticks me off so what did I do? I refunded his dadgum money! I don't think its fair to others for him/her to sell a coin on ebay starting out at almost 2x the price that you can still buy them for.

 

I like that you did this. If I find a Buffalo Wings (Florida Trail) on Ebay before I deliver them I will do the same. Especially since I am not even collecting the money till I have the coins in hand.

 

Team Sand Dollar

Edited March 3, 2006 by Team Sand Dollar

[+Rattlingcrew]

I purchased several extra coins to sell on EBAY, guess that is just not my style. I find myself trading them to others or giving them away as rewards for cool cache submissions or at events. No wonder I am the Kansas Poor Boy! There have been some pretty bold sellers on EBAY though. The volunteer coin that we agreed not to sell on EBAY, but one found it's way there anyway, brought 163 dollars. That is hard to believe on both ends. I am guilty of buying coins on EBAY, seems like I am asleep at the wheel...

 

Glen

[+AtlantaGal]

Doesn't ebay have a policy about offering stuff for sale? That you HAVE to have physical possession of it?

 

Yep, the item has to be received within 30 days (or 20 days... can't remember if they shortened the time in the recent policy update or not) of the auction's closing date.

[+GA Cacher]

Looks like the same person has a Sawg Ghost coin up on that site. It closes in 1 hour and is at over $30 incl s&h!

 

This coin also won't be in hand untill Mid MArch!!!!!!

 

I to sell coins op that place BUT they are in hand!

Edited March 3, 2006 by GA Cacher

[+slumbersix]

Woke up this morning to a call notifying me that one of the Indiana Micro coins(trackable at gc) was on ebay. I looked through the sellers profile and noticed that none of the coins he had for sale have even been delivered to buyers yet.

 

This really ticks me off so what did I do? I refunded his dadgum money! I don't think its fair to others for him/her to sell a coin on ebay starting out at almost 2x the price that you can still buy them for.

 

Its time us geocachers start looking out for each other on these here coins. Mind you I'm not saying that people can't sell our coin on ebay but for buddha's sake please wait till ya got 'em in hand. I haven't even seen the proof of these coins yet. What if something were to happen and these coins were delayed 2months like others? Then the poor person that got ripped off on ebay will be penalized even more!!!!

 

I'm bikinibottomfeeders and I"M FED UP W/RIPOFF ARTISTS!!!!

 

Ya know, maybe the makers of coins should start taking that advice or we should start calling them rip-off artists. You sold a coin you didn't have in hand yet, he's doing the same thing. Get over it RIP-OFF ARTIST!

[Not So Lost Puppies]

I think it would be responsible to report any ebay seller that is selling a coin that hasn't shipped and isn't listed a pre-sale to ebay. Get their accounts locked.

 

Personally I think if you didn't state any restrictions on the original sale that it is just as wrong to cancel their original order. Though I understand the frustration.

[+Renegade Knight]

I agree they should not sell it before they have it unless they disclose the situation.

 

I also think that people should honor their contracts. Did they deal with you in bad faith? Did their check bounce, was the money counterfit? Did you have the coin in possesion before you sold it to them? Did you fully disclose your schedule and time frame and what stage you were at for the coin? Normally all we hear are "pay us up front" then "it came in" nothing more.

[Not So Lost Puppies]

Maybe GC should modify their guidelines again and prohibit any coin sales being mentioned within the forums unless you physically have the coin in hand?

I know they have mentioned one of the reasons that you couldn't talk about non-trackable coins was to protect us from unsavory characters that may sell a non existant coin, take the money and run. Who is to say that someone wouldn't do that with a trackable coin? you don't need to buy the tracking numbers up front, only get the design approved.

 

I know that would seriously cut down on the somewhat frivolous coins, maybe we would get back to most of them being sig items.

[+AtlantaGal]

We don't need any more "rules." What we need are some standards that all coin edition sellers follow when offering a new edition for sale. The first of which should be accepting NO MONEY until the coin is submitted into production. I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of paying for certain coins and waiting 2 months or more to recieve them. That practice is BS and needs to stop. Everyone knows that until a coin is in production, the vendor isn't paid. So why should the buying public have to pony up our money weeks in advance of that?

 

Some coin edition sellers - ga coin guys, crake, nielsenc as well as some others ARE already practicing this. I think it's high time ALL coin edition sellers practice this. Extra kudos to the OK coin team and LooneyPenguin for waiting until they had the coins in hand to accept any money.

Edited March 3, 2006 by AtlantaGal

[+slumbersix]

We don't need any more "rules." What we need are some standards that all coin edition sellers follow when offering a new edition for sale. The first of which should be accepting NO MONEY until the coin is submitted into production. I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of paying for certain coins and waiting 2 months or more to recieve them. That practice is BS and needs to stop. Everyone knows that until a coin is in production, the vendor isn't paid. So why should the buying public have to pony up our money weeks in advance of that?

 

No, it should be no money is taken until the coin is in the sellers hand. We don't pay other places before the seller has an item in hand or the item is ready to ship, so why should it be any different for this?

[+AtlantaGal]

We don't need any more "rules." What we need are some standards that all coin edition sellers follow when offering a new edition for sale. The first of which should be accepting NO MONEY until the coin is submitted into production. I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of paying for certain coins and waiting 2 months or more to recieve them. That practice is BS and needs to stop. Everyone knows that until a coin is in production, the vendor isn't paid. So why should the buying public have to pony up our money weeks in advance of that?

 

No, it should be no money is taken until the coin is in the sellers hand. We don't pay other places before the seller has an item in hand or the item is ready to ship, so why should it be any different for this?

 

Considering that most coin presales are to generate funds to pay for the coin edition in the first place, I'll have to disagree with you here. I have no problem paying 3-4 weeks in advance of receipt as long as that's the maximum time I have to wait. Any longer than that and not only is the seller risking having their paypal account frozen, but it's just a plain bad business practice. I think it's time for some standards.

[ParentsofSAM]

Yep I have learned my lesson. If I ever make another coin I will not take money until I have the entire order in hand.

 

I did not collect the money this time until the day after I paid the vendor, but I never thought about the coins being held up for a problem.

[+slumbersix]

Considering that most coin presales are to generate funds to pay for the coin edition in the first place, I'll have to disagree with you here. I have no problem paying 3-4 weeks in advance of receipt as long as that's the maximum time I have to wait. Any longer than that and not only is the seller risking having their paypal account frozen, but it's just a plain bad business practice. I think it's time for some standards.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I just think its a bad practice. I just feel you should have an item in hand before you sell it and not just a guarantee that it'll be here by such and such a date. Lots of stuff can still happen between that 3-4 week period.

[Ferreter5]

I don't know how much in funds geocaching organizations have available, but not being able to pre-sell coins at all to pay for them could limit some geo-orgs from being able to produce coins.

 

I think once you're ready to pay the coin producer to start production it'd probably be alright to pre-sell at that point and use the money right away to pay the coin producer to start the minting process.

[+FluteFace]

I have no problem prepaying for a coin so long as I am 1st in line -- meaning that If the coin is late I only have to go to the seller of the coin. I do some buying on ebay, but never buy from somebody who doesn't have the coin in hand. I figure that it's bad enough if I'm first in line and the coin doesn't show up or is late. If there's somebody between me and the original seller, then I have another person that I have to deal with.

[+PassingWind]

No, it should be no money is taken until the coin is in the sellers hand. We don't pay other places before the seller has an item in hand or the item is ready to ship, so why should it be any different for this?

 

I agree 100% !!!

[+Cornerstone4]

Hmpth...

 

I did read in another thread where a few event coins were being sold on ebay before the event to help raise money for it.

 

What think you all about that?

 

That's a bit different ... the personal selling the event coin is the person having them minted. Still a presale, but different then the original subject I think.

 

If you are talking about the Temecula Valley Event coins, yes, I did sell them before they were offered to the public.

 

HOWEVER, this was not a presale. I had the coins in-hand when I listed them, and the coins were shipped as soon as the auctions ended. Nobody had to wait for coins.

[+nielsenc]

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I just think its a bad practice. I just feel you should have an item in hand before you sell it and not just a guarantee that it'll be here by such and such a date. Lots of stuff can still happen between that 3-4 week period.

 

The reason I pay is to make sure I dont miss out on a coin I want to get. If I waited until the coin came out, I would have to most likely trade-up or go to ebay and find the same coin for more.

 

Catch22.

[Not So Lost Puppies]

My preference is that money not be asked for until the coin is in hand.

 

I accept that an established organization may do pre-sales in order to put as many coins out there from that orgainization as are desired, as long as it is clearly stated when orders close, when they will be submitted for manufacturing, when they anticipate delivery.

 

Also some other legitimate fund raising is acceptable to me as pre-orders.

 

But I feel that personal/for profit coins should be on-hand before money is accepted. I think we have had enough of various "profit" coins sold that the frequent makers of them should have the funds to fully finance them by now. If they don't enough faith that they can sell them all, then maybe they shouldn't be made to begin with.

 

Yes, it is good that some wait until the coin is in production before asking for the money, it is a good start. I really like the fact that at least one particular store doesn't take orders until they have the tracking number for the shipment of coins. I appreciate the fact that those coins can be purchased with other coins at the same time with combined shipping and prompt delivery.

 

I also feel that signature items, including coins, should not be sold in order to pay for them.

 

Now... those are my preferences, unfortunately I doubt much will change anytime soon.

[+Kealia]

Sadly, I don't think this is ever going to change.

 

It's the same collecting fanatics who are afraid to miss a coin that will pay as soon as possible to make sure that they get one who will continue to support this practice.

 

This is the same issue with the cost of coins.

 

The power is in the buyers' hands.

[+Frisco05]

Yes the controll is with the buyers. As long as the sellers disclose at what point in the production process they are in when collecting money, then it would be up to the buyers to decide if they wanted to pay at that point. As far as selling on ebay goes, I would hope that it is against ebay policy to sell anything that either you are not in posession of or that you are not a leagal agent to sell. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Not So Lost Puppies]

I guess I'm not really surprised that it is there... but I hope people actually read the coin itself in the auction.

 

Standard edition (unlimited minting) World Travel coins are selling on e-bay... some with initial list price at $10 + shipping or buy it now for $19.95, for a coin that is $8.55 including shipping to US.

 

I also see some sets, which are still avaible.

 

Now, since you can't get a Midnight edition (LE) singly anymore, I can understand afew of them, but not when they list for more than the set still sells for

 

I see that many of the completed sales blacked out the 'get your coin at ....' section. None of the current auctions have done that. I have to see if e-bay would consider that a misrepresentation of the item?

Edited March 3, 2006 by Not So Lost Puppies

[+Renegade Knight]

We don't need any more "rules." What we need are some standards that all coin edition sellers follow when offering a new edition for sale. The first of which should be accepting NO MONEY until the coin is submitted into production. I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of paying for certain coins and waiting 2 months or more to recieve them. That practice is BS and needs to stop. Everyone knows that until a coin is in production, the vendor isn't paid. So why should the buying public have to pony up our money weeks in advance of that?

 

No, it should be no money is taken until the coin is in the sellers hand. We don't pay other places before the seller has an item in hand or the item is ready to ship, so why should it be any different for this?

 

It's a matter of disclosure. The friends of caching series will be sold this way. If you want the coin you will pre-order and pay up front. If you don't, we have waiting list and maybe you will get lucky. However you also know (and it will be said when we take pre-orders) that this is how we are doing it.

[+Tharagleb]

Yep I have learned my lesson. If I ever make another coin I will not take money until I have the entire order in hand.

 

I did not collect the money this time until the day after I paid the vendor, but I never thought about the coins being held up for a problem.

 

Well, you won't get any grief from me. I can wait, heck I've got about 30 or 40 coins I am still cutting out foam for to put in my binder. At least I know there was a problem and your coin is coming. [Too bad I didn't get the rare mistake coin tho!]

[+nfa]

I don't want to pay for a coin until I have opened the mailer and rubbed it all over my body...

 

I don't want to pay for a coin unless it is nicer than the online proof looked...

 

I don't want to pay for a coin unless the mailer is filled with pine-scented rays of sunshine...

 

I can certainly demand these things from coin maker, but I probably won't be buying a lot of coins.

 

If I ever make another geocoin, and I may, I will almost certainly sell it via pre-order. As is always the case, you will be free not to buy it.

 

If I were forced to wait for the coins to arrive before selling them, I would almost certainly not be able to make another coin.

 

That being said, I would try to provide better information about the timeline for delivery the next time around...I feel badly that my inexperience in these matters caused some people anger/anguish/angst.

 

Jamie