Geocaching Public Relations

February 16, 2006

Here's the kind of publicity I hate to see:

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_4ge...ll=all-news-hed

I love the part about charging cache owners the cost of bomb squad visits.

38.2k · February 16, 2006

Interesting. The land manager gave permission, but he thought the cache would be buried and not hidden at the base of a tree .

1.7k · February 16, 2006

There was one thing that bothered me. The police asked Dean Guth about the location of other caches and he refused because he felt it would "ruin the thrill of the game". I agree that the police have no idea how widespread this is, on the other hand refusing to assist a police investigation does not go over very well.

Its unfortunate that either the park staff was unaware of the cache or that the police failed to investigate. Chances are the police will realize that in a few days they will have more important things to do than an investigation of Geocaches.

Perhas the police should be invited to this event cache.

Edited February 16, 2006 by magellan315

9.2k · February 16, 2006

This is the cache in question, a "travel bug prison" which is being discussed in this thread in the Travel Bug Forum. Pulling up the maps and aerial photos, one can certainly understand how a transportation worker might observe a geocacher from the nearby highway.

I am puzzled; the news article says that a park official gave permission for the cache. The cache location looks to be well east of the park that is on the other side of the railroad tracks.

February 16, 2006

I find it interesting that the woman was able to get the bus driver to stop long enough for a little caching.

Hmmm caching on public transport...a novel idea

7.2k · February 16, 2006

I thought it was actually a good article on geocaching. At least the police responded a little less "Jack Booted" than many other incidences.

I have to agree with M315, you shouldn't refuse to participate in educating the police. There are plenty of LEO around here that cache. Heck, there's one that's a SCGA steering committee member. If there's one group beyond landowners that you want to educate on geocaching and letterboxing then it's got to be the police.

February 16, 2006

I agree that the hider of the cache should have told the police of his other caches. However, my worry now is that with this publicity some actual nut job is going to get the bright idea to actually put a bomb in one. I guess this is what "terror" is supposed to do; make us fearful of everything.

February 16, 2006

Not telling police where geocaches as placed before it becomes an issue is one thing but to refuse to cooperated with authorities when they request the information is inappropriate. Based on the limited information in the article it appears that the town wanted to work out a system to ensure public safety while allow the hobby to stand in the community. What is the saying about a few rotten apples...

1.7k · February 16, 2006

One thing should be remembered, from the tone of the article the police wanted to know the location of all the Gecoaches in the area and had no concept as to how many there are, mots likely thought there are a very small amount. The cacher should have directed them to GC.com so they could do their own research

1.2k · February 16, 2006

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_4ge...ll=all-news-hed

At least they didn't blow up this one.

February 16, 2006

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

everyone hug a bomb tech today

3k · February 16, 2006

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

everyone hug a bomb tech today

Wow, my News Director just showed this to me on the way in the door this morning. I'm really curious about the standards of assessment. You've obviously been on both sides of the issue and no one wants to see our game wrecked by this kind of publicity, so what should we do? Do bomb squad personnel have a common information source that explains what a cache is? This cache placer obviously went the full nine yards to get permission and labeled his cache appropriately. What else can we do? I noticed the comment on wanting to know where all the caches are. How hard would it be to provide that information? I'm guessing police and rescue have gps (I know most of ours do) and bomb squad should, too. So what might be some appropriate steps to take?

February 16, 2006

Canningclan makes a great point. I'm sure most folks don't think about it from a bomb techs view but maybe we all should. To call anyone in that line of work an idot is disgraceful! With the way things are in the world today you have to wonder what affect it will have on geocahing.

February 16, 2006

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments.

It's your job to be paranoid. Someone says "suspect item" and you're in Bomb Disposal Mode. If I were to make a bomb, I'd make it look like a fire hydrant; a utility box; a garden gnome... But then, I don't make bombs. So don't come down on us for being happy that you didn't blow up our game pieces. That's your job, and we're glad you're not doing it when doing so is not necessary.

Yes, it's your job to blow up suspicious looking items when you cannot determine it's origin or function or whatever it is that determines an item's fragmented fate. We're all suspicious looking individuals doing things in public that make people take notice of our furtive ways. I accept that. However, what we're doing is, for the most part, legal, and we're doing it in a "Minding our own business" fashion. So, yeah, I understand your point of view about walking up to suspicious items in your foot-thick kevlar suit, but

AT LEAST THEY DIDN'T BLOW THIS ONE UP.

February 16, 2006

One of the highest priorities is to return a scene back to normal as quickly as possible (as well as prtect life of course, including your own). Seldome is it the case that anything gets destroyed without reason or true suspect.

Since getting involved with geocaching I often find myself wondering how I would handle a call to an ammo can hidden in a public place that i can ID as a cache. Every situation is different so I can't give a generic answer.

What my suggestion is....leave this entire topic out of places like public forums. I just see it as an invitation to some nut job that wants to make life miserable for someone just to get a headline

BTW in my earlier post.."treated as suspect" means warrants further investigation, not destroy

Education should be the first step. I am surprised that local police forces are unaware of geocaching..really surprised. local clubs and groups should actively involve law enforcement encouraging communication and cooperation. But expecting agancies to spend countless manhours researching all the local cache placements when they are already strapped for personnel is a bit out there. We as geocachers should be proactive and protect our sport/pastime thru education to those who count. I'd be willing to bet the law enforcement that responded to that call of an ammo can hidden in a public place had never heard of geocaching. I'd also be willing to bet the call was anonomous

Edited February 16, 2006 by canningclan

February 16, 2006

one more thing...Sparrow, this was not intended as a personal attack, I see someone has already taken it as such. Just a frustrated comment on a long standing topic. Most people have no harmful intentions in what they say as I believe you didn't in your comment.

5.3k · February 16, 2006

Guth said he told police about the game and said he had permission from Charlie Brown, director of the city Parks and Public Property Department, to hide the box.

Brown said he did give Guth permission, but he thought the box would be buried, not hidden beneath a tree.

But who can take a park director named Charlie Brown seriously, He thinks caches should be buried. No way I am to to Lethargic dig up a cache.

Guth said he's hidden about 30 caches ''in various cities'' but wouldn't be more specific.

Never volunteer any information.

Each call for the bomb squad costs thousands of dollars, he said.

Now, for the most part emergencies services personal that respond are already on the clock, so such a response does not really cost the government any more than would be normally spent.

February 16, 2006

Canningclan - thank you for what you do. Your post is very helpful and appropriate. We DO need to think more often about the impact our sport can have on others and your line of work is a good example.

February 16, 2006

I don't know if I agree with Guth refusing to tell police where others are hidden. I think giving local authorities an overhead map with all local geocaches listed would be a good thing. It's no different then we can get online - just pull a pocket query for that town and map it with something like UsaPhotoMaps. This would give authorities something to look at if they were called for a suspect box, and it isn't giving away any "secrets".

I think it would be awesome for the sport if geocaching.com actually had a section for law enforcement to quickly find/show all local caches. Kind of like a non-participant premium member (can stash or find caches, just list).

Just a thought...

-al

2.2k · February 16, 2006

Merging two threads.

February 16, 2006

what a great concept BigAlH...that's exactly what I mean about getting active in involving LEA's in geocaching.

We...North America... are the land of the silent majority, we all yack around the coffee table but never actually do anything about what we're yackin about.

February 16, 2006

I have to agree with cooperation with the police, but as stated earlier they should have GPS and access to a computer, all they would have to do is go the GC.com and check to see if there is a cache in their coordinates. However, we now have the issue of the nutjob out there

February 16, 2006

i think it would be great to contact local police and educate them about geocaches. being proactive can't be bad can it? well, the reason i haven't really pursued contacting them is that i am afraid that they will have a negative reaction. what if they don't like it and ask that existing caches be removed. that'd ruffle more than a few feathers.

is there a good way to go about contacting and educating the local law enforcement? and who would you contact without sounding like a total weirdo?

2.7k · February 16, 2006

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

everyone hug a bomb tech today

Wow, my News Director just showed this to me on the way in the door this morning. I'm really curious about the standards of assessment. You've obviously been on both sides of the issue and no one wants to see our game wrecked by this kind of publicity, so what should we do? Do bomb squad personnel have a common information source that explains what a cache is? This cache placer obviously went the full nine yards to get permission and labeled his cache appropriately. What else can we do? I noticed the comment on wanting to know where all the caches are. How hard would it be to provide that information? I'm guessing police and rescue have gps (I know most of ours do) and bomb squad should, too. So what might be some appropriate steps to take?

This is a cut and paste right from the article linked in the OP:

''Just because something is marked as being a game doesn't mean that's what it is,'' Sarnicky said. ''Bad people have a tendency to try and disguise things, and we have no choice but to treat it like it could be a bomb.''

18.9k · February 16, 2006

We have long tried to keep the local authorties aware of our hobby and provide maps and rough descriptions of hides to help diffuse any such situations around here.

2.7k · February 16, 2006

Police Capt. John Sarnicky said the department wants to know where the caches are. If police knew the locations, he said, they would still have to investigate calls about suspicious packages but could possibly tailor their response.

Maybe someone can show this Police Captian how to use a GPSr and set him up with a weekly PQ email for this town. It's obvious that the owner of the cache in the article doens't want to becaue it might "ruin the thrill of the game".

Sorry but having the police and bomb squad show up while I'm hunting a cache isn't what I call thrilling.

5.3k · February 16, 2006

I have to agree with cooperation with the police, but as stated earlier they should have GPS and access to a computer, all they would have to do is go the GC.com and check to see if there is a cache in their coordinates. However, we now have the issue of the nutjob out there

I seem to remember reading a while back that Groundspreak offers free premium membership to land managers. The local LEA can always set up an account and then just run a PQ for their area and then load it into Micro Soft streets and trips, one of the Derome products or into national geographic topo and create their own maps. A larger number of public safety aggncies use GPSrs. Iknow of you fire dept that has sent personal out looking for caches so that they would know how to use a GPS.

5.7k · February 16, 2006

In most but not all cases the police are not stupid. In these days of HomeLand Security and the resulting heightened awareness of all things 'suspciuous' I'd be very surprised if most of law enforcement was not aware of geocaching. Further, since all the info that they could possibly want is immediately available online, I think that it is safe to assume that the activities of geocachers are already on their radar screens. Additionally, I would not be surprised to learn that if law enforcement had contacted Groundspeak requesting information relative to geocaching, that they would have supplied it. If these things are not true or at least possibly true, this country has much more to worry about than people like us hiding tupperware in dead trees or film canisters in the primroses.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Team Cotati

February 16, 2006

not to be a pain but....isn't expecting the LEA's to do all the footwork to protect our sport a little counterproductive??? we should , as geocaching enthusiasts provide maps of area caches to them. Where I am this is not necessary as several officers are geocachers but other places may not be so lucky...obviously by the 33800 hits on google for "geocache bomb".

Just for interest...it may have been assumed that I am a police officer....no, i am military. I am also very new to geocaching, this enhances my point. I had never heard of it prior to Sep '05

February 16, 2006

If the man who thought the cache was bomb, would have gone to the website and looked it up, maybe he would have been more informed by the Gc.com website. If he would have researched the topic a little maybe none of this would have happened.But i also think the hider should have just told the cops where about the caches where hidden maybe they would have gone litter on him. From personal expirience i know that Gc.com does not go out and check each cache, which i can understand, for there being so many. but they should just maybe a little bit "stricter" about when someone hids a cache near a road or structure.

February 16, 2006

I hosted an event last year on TN Valley Authority property (TVA) and had requested a representative from their agency to attend. The cachers and the agent had some great interaction with each side coming to understand the other's side even more. I've even taken him out to visit some of the various caches in the area he patrols so he will know the specifics on the caches.

I feel it should be top priority to educate the police of our game. I've had run ins with the authorities as low as Barney Fife and as high as the Secret Service while caching. I try to keep the brochure from Geo-U on me to help explain what I'm doing as well as a business card which lists the yahoo group I started for my area for further investigation if they wish. But in this day and time, I can totally understand the police reaction to an ammo box. I've found few ammo boxes that had the original markings altered and them designated as a "game piece."

February 16, 2006

I have worked for many years in a neighboring 911 center and would like to offer my two cents on the subject...

Any time a person calls in a suspicious box, package, etc. a "better safe than sorry" attitude has to be taken for both liability and public safety reasons. No amount of questioning or complaining is going to change law enforcement response to this. Unfortunately, this is the world we now live in. A better solution would be to avoid causing the initial alarm/phone call to us. Although ammo boxes tend to keep caches warm and dry and the animals away, they do cause alarm. And, let me just add, people tend to be alarmed by quite a lot of things these days. My suggestion would be to limit cache containers to clear tupperware or lock-n-lock containers that clearly show the contents inside. Also, when placing caches, really, REALLY try to think about how something may be perceived as being suspicious. Does that micro really need to be placed outside a courthouse or public building where security is an issue? Bridges are routinely checked now not only for security reasons but for structural integrity and your cache may be found. And yes, there are costs involved with calling in bomb squads, shutting down roadways etc. It is not as simple as it sounds. This situation is going to come up again unless we make some changes. The police/Homeland Security type reponse, even when they are aware that a cache is in the area, will not change.

2.3k · February 16, 2006

not to be a pain but....isn't expecting the LEA's to do all the footwork to protect our sport a little counterproductive??? we should , as geocaching enthusiasts provide maps of area caches to them.

And who is going to update them everytime a new cache is placed or an old cache goes inactive or is archived?

February 16, 2006

I've been to several park agencies around here asking about hiding caches in the parks. Usually I hand them the geocaching brochure from geocacher-u because they don't know what it is or haven't heard of it. I guess the other geocachers who put caches in the parks never bothered to get permission. I'm all for letting authorities know where the caches are or at least the general area. I can understand them not wanting people disturbing some sensitive historical or natural areas and if it prevents incidents like this then great. Also be sure the container is clearly marked on the outside that it is an official geocaching site.

everyone hug a bomb tech today

--<<<HUGS>>> for you canning clan-

Let's keep it safe.

February 16, 2006

I got an email from him,

and he did not refuse to cooporate with the police.

They told him he would recover what was left.

Edited February 17, 2006 by blackjack65

20.7k · February 16, 2006

.... Although ammo boxes tend to keep caches warm and dry and the animals away, they do cause alarm. And, let me just add, people tend to be alarmed by quite a lot of things these days. My suggestion would be to limit cache containers to clear tupperware or lock-n-lock containers that clearly show the contents inside.

I can't support this idea for a few reasons:

It seems that more caches that have been destroyed by bomb squads have been in tupperware v ammo cans.
An ammo can is just a metal box.
Ammo cans make very good geocaches.
I refuse to change my life out of terrorism fear.
Has anyone ever seen a bomb that was in an ammo can?

Edited February 16, 2006 by sbell111

February 16, 2006

Has anyone ever seen a bomb that was in an ammo can?

None that survived to tell us about it.

February 16, 2006

I see your 948 posts so I'm assuming thicker than normal skin..this is not for you in particular but for all the ones that leave comments like

"At least they didn't blow up this one"

I am in bomb disposal and if you could even fathom walking up on a suspect item that "may" kill you so that you may make life safe for the general public you would never post such comments. Someone a while back even went as far as calling the BDU idiots for destroying an AMMO CAN!! Ammo cans have a certain quazi military personality to them and in an unknown situation will be treated as suspect by any BDU anywhere.

BTW this article already has a long thread on it.

Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) is a science of vague assumptions based on debatable figures derived from inconclusive experiments, performed by persons of doubtful mental capability with instruments of problematic accuracy.

everyone hug a bomb tech today

When are people going to figure out that all this yap about terrorist is just that so we can get back to lving like we did before the 9-11 hysteria started?

February 16, 2006

When are people going to figure out that all this yap about terrorist is just that so we can get back to living like we did before the 9-11 hysteria started?

Perhaps in the next administation.

February 16, 2006

I think the way people act today there a chance that anything can happen heck last night on TV someone made a gun from a steerwheel lock GOFIGURE.....Sorry to say it's a sign of the times

38.2k · February 16, 2006

When are people going to figure out that all this yap about terrorist is just that so we can get back to living like we did before the 9-11 hysteria started?
Perhaps in the next administation.

If you think terrorism issues are a figment of this administration's imagaination, I urge you to get your head out of the sand. There are people out there who want to kill Americans, as many of us as possible. 9/11 was just the appetizer in their minds.

Complacency on our part will only guarantee that they will succeed. Calling in suspicious packages near high traffic areas or suspicious activity is not hysteria, its reasonable vigilance. It wasn't long ago that 192 people were slaughtered and over 2,000 were injured by bombs hidden in Tupperware next to train tracks.

Unfortunately we will never get back to living like we did pre 9/11 as long as the world is full of these religious fanatics who would like nothing better than to destroy every one of us infidels.

Edited February 16, 2006 by briansnat

February 16, 2006

My suggestion would be to limit cache containers to clear tupperware or lock-n-lock containers that clearly show the contents inside.

Just because you can see inside doesn't mean it isn't a bomb.

Does that micro really need to be placed outside a courthouse or public building where security is an issue? Bridges are routinely checked now not only for security reasons but for structural integrity and your cache may be found.

No cache really needs to be hidden in such a place.

February 16, 2006

I wish my friend and fellow cacher good luck as he sorts through this unfortunate event. He is very well loved by our caching community. We all look forward to his hides.

Some of the above comments are way out of line .... I'd attribute that to a healthy sense of worry or fear.

I can not fault the PenDot worker for doing his job .... Reporting suspicious activity.

Advising LEO in a large city would be a daunting task.

Proper labeling of container with contact information might have difussed the situation early before the Bomb Squad got involved. You just have to see the advantages of a see-into container.

He did no more or less than most of us do .... it just turned out bad this time.

Every one of us takes a risk when we open a closed container .... and to those of us who have gone through military booby-trap training we know all to well how easily death can be disguised.

I hope every one stays calm and works together to resolve an unfortunate turn of events.

ImpalaBob

20.7k · February 16, 2006

No cache really needs to be hidden in such a place.

No cache really needs to be hidden anywhere.

20.7k · February 16, 2006

... You just have to see the advantages of a see-into container.

...

I really don't believe that its about the type of container. Its good to label any container, but even that is no guarantee. If a suspicious package is reported, most of the time, it will lead to the container's destruction. That is typical protocol and I agree with it 100%.

Of course, every container should match its surroundings. With some exception, ammo cans are best suited for the woods. Since they tend to be hidden there, they are reported less frequently than other types of container.

As for terrorists, an ammo can in the woods is not the best choice for a bomb. As briansnat wisely noted, terrorists like a big splash. Killing a couple of hikers is not going to send the message that they are looking for.

ImpalaBob, please don't take it personally that I used your quote, it was just the closest.

February 16, 2006

I think we can take a few valuable things from this thread...at least I will... No, the LEA did not overreact, even with the bridge one. Yes, it probably would have been better to cooperate with the police and that we geocachers should consider things like this when placing caches. The bucket in the bridge was destined to be called in.

And just to comment on sbell111's comment about ammo can in the woods...if that can brings mass response and huge media attention then yes it is a viable choice for terrorist use. Not all terrorist are about killing....most aren't. It's mostly about instilling fear

February 16, 2006

Sbell111 ... No problem.....(are those silver oak clusters Lt Col.?)

You guys are saturated with caches around Nashville ..... way more than Allentown, PA. Were planning a caching vacation there to boost our numbers and visit family.

No perfect answers or way out of this situation. ImpalaBob

20.7k · February 16, 2006

... And just to comment on sbell111's comment about ammo can in the woods...if that can brings mass response and huge media attention then yes it is a viable choice for terrorist use. Not all terrorist are about killing....most aren't. It's mostly about instilling fear

I can't imagine a box in the woods bringing a mass response. Also, I can't pretend to understand the thought process of a terrorist.

Sbell111 ... No problem.....(are those silver oak clusters Lt Col.?)

You guys are saturated with caches around Nashville ..... way more than Allentown, PA. Were planning a caching vacation there to boost our numbers and visit family.

No perfect answers or way out of this situation. ImpalaBob

They are indeed.

You'll enjoy caching in Nashville. There is a great variety in the caches here. Don't come in July or August. It's wayyy too hot.

1.7k · February 16, 2006

Guidelines still apply:

For all cache types please be sensible when choosing your location for cache placement. Please be aware of what may be a perceived to a non geocacher as dangerous or questionable behavior. For example, suspicious looking characters wandering about near an elementary school. The land may be public property, but keep in mind what is on the other side of that property line. Also, clearly label your physical containers on the outside with appropriate information to reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those that are unaware of our sport.

Maybe just maybe if the cache location is easily observable to anyone, it might not be the most appropriate spot. Maybe just maybe not every little park or pathway needs a tupperware container or ammo box, maybe a micro is better suited. Recently I went in search of a cache, now archived, upon searching I thought --MY goodness is there no common sense, the cache location was on top of a transcontinental natural gas pipeline--why would anyone place a box like geocache there. Maybe we need to think about how a cache and caching activity appears to the outsider. I won't even go looking for a cache placed in a playground or near school property, having a person hanging around such a location without a readily apparent reason for being there will raise suspicion of anyone. It may be a product of our times, but it does exist. Denial of terrorism as a threat is surely misguided, hopefully we haven't forgotten. In this area, I don't think I can think of anyone who did not know someone directly affected by the loss of a loved one on 9/11. But our responsibility is to pursue our little hobby/sport in such away as to never cause fear among non participants. And I do mean never-- That is the responsible way.

3.2k · February 16, 2006

First, to the comment earlier that we "have our head in the sand" if we think that a regime change would make a difference, think again. Without any doubt, it will.

As to cooperating with the police, I too believe in volunteering as little information as possible without being decepetive. VOLUNTEERING. If asked a direct question, give a direct answer. It would probably have been more useful to respond "I can direct you to the ones I have placed, however for a full list, you would need to go to the geocaching site."

You will have a hard time convincing too many people to proactively notify ANY municipality as to the whereabouts of caches. In some areas, this has been done. The result: restrictive guidelines (clear containers, cache must be physically checked every 30 days, etc.) and in some cases permits (some with fees) required. I happen to currently live in an area that did the formaer and am moving into an area in the next few months that requires the latter.

Do I want them to approach the package with caution, yes. I want them to get a gold watch after 25 years of service and be on a pension well into their 80's. Having said that, I also want them to excersise some common sense. In this case, information appears to have been clearly posted on the outside and, in reality, this paticular case was probably handled as it should be. This has not proven to be the SOP in all the incidents.

There also has to be a balance. Why is the person who is handing out samples of products at the train station (potential biohazard) or placing boxes requesting donations in busy stores any different from us placing containers with pieces of paper in them to be sought by others? A quick search will show you that near most population centers most hides are either micros or second use type containers and, the mojority of those that articles have been written about are these very containers, usually jars or tupperware. I personnaly would have no issue if Ammo box hides became a no no other than the fact that the container itself is neutral and not a threat.

These services are already paid for amd I would probably not mind paying extra for the call if those placed in "harm's way" got a premium for having been called out, however my understanding is that is not the case.

Reading the article, I wonder if this was more a reporter trying to make something into more than it really was. Nuff' said, I have to get back to duct taping plastic to my windows for protection.

Edited February 17, 2006 by baloo&bd

Geocaching Public Relations

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