Pb Jar Caches And Nut Allergies

[+RUFFLEDOSTRICH]

TBs traveling through less cleaned pb caches? Anyone?

[+sbell111]

Here's a more reasonable policy, in my opinion.

[+sbell111]

TBs traveling through less cleaned pb caches? Anyone?

I'm working under the assumption that containers that are left with actual peanut butter inside would be likely to be destroyed before a TB could be traded out. If the bug did get traded out with actual peanut butter on it, Someone could react to it.

 

I have never found a cache with peanut butter in it.

[Luckless]

Chocolate allergies! This chocoholic didn't think it was possible. I've been hording some large plastic containers that had chocolate covered raisins in them to use for caches. They still smell like chocolate and every so often I open them and take a whiff. Guess I have some more scrubbing to do.

[+greyhounder]

I was going to add something about Darwin & Survival of the Fittest, but decided that I would have sounded insensitive.

 

I'll just let you try to figure out where I was going with this.

 

 

 

But just thinking out loud: wouldn't just stating that the cache is a peanut butter container be enought to alert the cacher that those with a peanut allergy should stay away?

 

Bec

[+ScurvyDawgs]

Well I appreciate all of your responses.

 

I have a friend who's daughter is allergic to PB so am very aware/conscious of the dangers. (FYI our school does not permit PB or any items that contain nuts or traces of nuts or may have been in contact with nuts- READ those labels!)

 

I have cleaned/Javexed the container. The Cache listing states it is in a PB jar, I did remove the Allergy Warning ( I figure those that have concerns can use their own judgement).

 

As to TB coming into contact...my friend says that if she worried about everywhere/everything her daughter came into contact with then they couldn't go anywhere, they just make sure they are prepared (Epi pen, etc).

 

As to the critters being attracted, I will keep a close eye and change containers if need be (the cache is quite close to my home).

 

Play Safe!

[+reveritt]

Here's a more reasonable policy, in my opinion.

Yes, it's a reasonable policy, and includes the following:

The elementary school and the high school have a peanut protocol requesting that peanuts, peanut butter and all products containing peanuts or peanut oil not be brought into the school...As is noted in the Protocol, the word "request" is used rather than "ban".

So as I said: if you knew your kid had a classmate who could die from exposure to a microscopic amount of peannut butter, don't you think you could find something else to put in your kid's lunch?

[+sbell111]

A study by Steven J. Simonte, MD, and colleagues from Mt. Sinai School of Medicine shows that exposure to peanut, when it is in peanut butter, vastly reduces the potential for a severe reaction. Allergic reactions to peanut have been reported on airplanes when many packets of roasted peanuts are opened simultaneously, releasing peanut dust into the air. Measurable amounts of peanut protein have been found in the air filters of airplanes. Simonte's study may help families distinguish between the potential dangers of peanut butter versus peanut proteins that can be released into the air from packaged peanut products.

Yes. I stick with my previous opinion. The danger appears to be from peanut dust, such as from a can of roasted peanuts, nut from a peanut butter sandwich.

 

Thanks for asking.

Edited February 5, 2006 by sbell111

[+Thorn Cachers]

You may take peanut allergies more serious if you watched your child lose the ability to breath over a couple of minutes after being exposed. My wife has, after my son ate a snack that didn’t list peanuts as an ingredient. My first son had mild allergies. We just looked out for peanuts in the list of ingredients for him. For my second son, just a trace of peanut protein is enough to set him off. Fortunately, my wife was driving by our GP’s office when it happened.

 

Yes, if I was caching with him I would skip a cache listed as being in a peanut butter bottle. I would appreciate it if you told me that before we get there, so I don’t have to try and pull him back at the last minute. As it is, I have a geocaching bag and a coat that have pockets to keep epipens. It also means we have to bring our own food to event caches. My second son would likely have a reaction if you put a safe food in a plastic bowl you last has peanut butter cookies in. I also learned to cast chocolate so I can give my kids some chocolate Santa’s for Christmas. (Try hunting for candy that lists allergy information that doesn’t have possible peanuts traces.)

 

No I don’t think peanut butter should be banned. I love peanut butter and think every kid ought to have peanut butter sandwiches. But everyone should be willing to accept there is a risk and not try to minimize it. For whatever reason, more and more people can be killed by a food many of us love. Figure out why, and you will probably get a Nobel.

 

On the other hand, I’m sure you can find a better bottle than a peanut butter jar. Especially if you have squirrels anywhere near the cache...

Edited February 5, 2006 by Thorn Cachers

[+sbell111]

I don't think that anyone who posted to this thread failed to take the threat seriously.

[+Thorn Cachers]

I don't think that anyone who posted to this thread failed to take the threat seriously.

 

I didn't mean the above to accusatory. Many people just don't realize how dangerous it can be. And for some odd reason the incidence and the severity is getting greater in our populations. I don't really have a problem with a cache in a peanut butter jar, but I would need to skip them with my son.

 

Still, I think the rodents would be the stronger reason not to use any bottle that previously had food for a cache.

[+Deliveryguy428]

first my serious comments-- From what I have read and maybe did not see did anyone actually answer the question "Has anyone had a allergic reaction while handling a cache that was in a PB jar?"

 

Second and yes we all try to sneak in a wise crack from time to time on anything and everything but never in my knowledge would anyone I know make a wise crack about someone elses medical condition. Yeah PB allergies have become more and more of a problem as of late but don't make us feel like we have to walk on nutshells when talking about it.

[+Glenn]

Here's a more reasonable policy, in my opinion.

 

So if you insist on using a PB jar cache conatiner it is only right that you should include an Epi-pen in it. BTW they only cost around $100/pen.

[+sbell111]

So if you insist on using a PB jar cache conatiner it is only right that you should include an Epi-pen in it. BTW they only cost around $100/pen.

Huh????

 

First, let's wait until its established that a properly bleached container could be a risk. I don't think that it would be. Even if we assume that bleaching the jar will not remove any peanut oils absorbed by it, there still wouldn't be a problem, since it is the protiens that cause the reaction.

[+Glenn]

I'm sorry. I still don't think that outlawing PB&J is the answer. Incidently, I just took a few minutes to search our local school's rules and it appears that they have not taken this measure.

 

Correct, and where does it stop? After almost every food product is banned from school? The solution is education. Unfortuently we can't trust schools to educate anymore.

[nobby.nobbs]

my daughters school just makes it a strict rule that they can't swap or share food from their lunches.

makes sense plus you then know if the little darlings are eating their food or swapping for chocolate!!!

[+Polgara]

I just placed a cache that is in a Peanut Butter Jar (well washed)...on the web page I placed a warning for Nut Allergies. Has anyone come acrossed any difficulties/comments from those with allergies? Or is this bad etiquette on my part to use the PB jar?

 

Comments?

 

Saying on your cache page that the jar is a peanut butter jar, should suffice for people with nut allergies. If someone is that allergic to nuts, they are always paying attention to what they eat to make sure there are no nuts in their food.

[[RR]Macavity]

So if you insist on using a PB jar cache conatiner it is only right that you should include an Epi-pen in it. BTW they only cost around $100/pen.

Huh????

 

First, let's wait until its established that a properly bleached container could be a risk. I don't think that it would be. Even if we assume that bleaching the jar will not remove any peanut oils absorbed by it, there still wouldn't be a problem, since it is the protiens that cause the reaction.

 

I concur with sbell111, Glenn. We really should wait for evidence before demanding that people place Epipens in caches that are in containers such as PB jars et al.

 

Also, there's nothing "only" about $100 Epi-pens. That's like saying a 5GB iPod nano is cheap because it "only" costs $150, as opposed to $500 for a regular 50GB iPod (and my 30GB Nomad Zen Xtra does the same thing as both versions, and it cost me $220 - a better buy than either iPod variant, IMO).

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions. That means packing everything you may need for a trip (geocaching or otherwise) first, and then worrying about nonessentials.

 

So if I were allergic to, say, peanuts - which, thankfully, I'm not - Epi-pens would take priority over a copy of Voltaire's "What Is Goth?" when I put my kit together.

 

Which leads me to ask, has anyone considered putting up a "Recommended Geocaching Supplies" thread? If not, I'll be glad to start one.

[+sbell111]

There have been several 'What's in your backpack' threads. Try a search on backpack, pack, or ruck.

[[RR]Macavity]

There have been several 'What's in your backpack' threads. Try a search on backpack, pack, or ruck.

 

Righto. I figured I'd ask first, mainly because I didn't see any stickied and my own search ('recommended geocaching supplies') came up blank.

 

Personally, I'd think that at least one of those threads ought to be stickified.

[+cachefamily]

I skipped over some of the thread but I WILL go back and read it. I have 2 children with severe peanut allergies and 1 with an almond allergy. One child breaks out in hives head to toe just from the aroma of peanuts. With that said, I think a warning that the cache is hidden in a peanut butter jar would suffice. We would take the proper precautions when we seaarched for the cache (if we chose to search for it) and once we found the cache.

[+cachefamily]

Are you serious? My kid can't eat PB&J because somebody else is allergic?

 

That's just silly.

 

Think about what you're saying. It's not the kid's fault they have an allergy to peanuts. They should suffer an epi-pen shot because they were unfortunate to be born with an allergy?

[+cachefamily]

One last thought...to sum up my thoughts......We are very pro-active and responsible regarding our kids allergies to nuts. A statement of the cache container type, not necessarily a "warning", would be very helpful to us.

 

Steve

[+sbell111]

Are you serious? My kid can't eat PB&J because somebody else is allergic?

 

That's just silly.

 

Think about what you're saying. It's not the kid's fault they have an allergy to peanuts. They should suffer an epi-pen shot because they were unfortunate to be born with an allergy?

I'm not suggesting that your kid has to eat it.

[+cachefamily]

Are you serious? My kid can't eat PB&J because somebody else is allergic?

 

That's just silly.

 

Think about what you're saying. It's not the kid's fault they have an allergy to peanuts. They should suffer an epi-pen shot because they were unfortunate to be born with an allergy?

I'm not suggesting that your kid has to eat it.

 

One of my kids only has to smell it to break out in a full body rash. There's no eating involved!

[+sbell111]

I absolutely refuse to repost everything that's already posted higher up in this thread.

Edited February 8, 2006 by sbell111

[+Bill & Tammy]

Probably going to hack some folks of by saying this but all this talk of using "recycled" food containers and whatnot for a cache just because it is free or cheap is getting a bit annoying. Listen folks, if you can't shell out maybe $5-$10 bucks on placing a cache, please don't bother. Most caches that are placed on the cheap usually end up getting chewed by critters, wet or otherwise destroyed and sometimes it falls upon the benevolence of other area cachers to save that cache by replacing it with a more durable container. As a cache owner you are "hosting" an event of sorts and inviting people to come and engage in it. I bet you wouldn't serve leftovers or garbage scrapings to your house guests, so why would you invite folks to participate in a similiar fashion and not put a bit of expense into it?

 

I would rather see the money spent on placing a cache invested in an ammo box or Lock & lock then on a FTF prize or other swag, but then again, most folks that put out cruddy conatiners also fill them with pretty unimpressive swag. Sorry to be so harsh but that's the way I see it.

[adampierson]

Folks,

 

Cache hiders are reasonable and certainly don't want to see anyone hurt. Most of the population isn't DEATHLY allergic to anything. But if we are going to talk about allergies, why should we limit ourselves to worrying about JUST peanut butter? Why not ANY product? Don't be naive just to think that if your cache container is peanut butter safe that you're okay. Regardless of what lengths are done to make a container allergy free, THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES!

 

A previous cacher could eaten a peanut butter granola bar and opened the cache container, depositing trace amounts of peanut product onto ANY container.

 

If you are allergic to something you can't expect EVERYONE to be change their habits or preferences to suit your needs. While it is noble for others to try to accomodate others, YOU have to take appropriate measures to keep yourself safe. Otherwise you could end up REALLY sick or DEAD.

 

I have my own allergies, although they are not lethal to me, YET. I have to be mindful, because each time I am exposed, my allergies get worse.

[+Glenn]

Are you serious? My kid can't eat PB&J because somebody else is allergic?

 

That's just silly.

 

Think about what you're saying. It's not the kid's fault they have an allergy to peanuts. They should suffer an epi-pen shot because they were unfortunate to be born with an allergy?

I'm not suggesting that your kid has to eat it.

 

One of my kids only has to smell it to break out in a full body rash. There's no eating involved!

 

The point is you can't peanut proof the world.

[+TeamVilla5]

I concur with sbell111, Glenn. We really should wait for evidence before demanding that people place Epipens in caches that are in containers such as PB jars et al.

 

Also, there's nothing "only" about $100 Epi-pens. That's like saying a 5GB iPod nano is cheap because it "only" costs $150, as opposed to $500 for a regular 50GB iPod (and my 30GB Nomad Zen Xtra does the same thing as both versions, and it cost me $220 - a better buy than either iPod variant, IMO).

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions. That means packing everything you may need for a trip (geocaching or otherwise) first, and then worrying about nonessentials.

 

I think Glenn was speaking facetiously.

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

[+TeamVilla5]

I stick with my previous opinion. The danger appears to be from peanut dust, such as from a can of roasted peanuts, nut from a peanut butter sandwich.

 

Maybe you missed the story referenced earlier about the teen who died of anaphylactic shock after kissing her boyfriend who had eaten peanut butter sandwich HOURS earlier in the day.

 

I think that any cache in a PB jar should be identified early in the description, and those with nut allergies are usually very diligent about steering clear.

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

[+Glenn]

I concur with sbell111, Glenn. We really should wait for evidence before demanding that people place Epipens in caches that are in containers such as PB jars et al.

 

Also, there's nothing "only" about $100 Epi-pens. That's like saying a 5GB iPod nano is cheap because it "only" costs $150, as opposed to $500 for a regular 50GB iPod (and my 30GB Nomad Zen Xtra does the same thing as both versions, and it cost me $220 - a better buy than either iPod variant, IMO).

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions. That means packing everything you may need for a trip (geocaching or otherwise) first, and then worrying about nonessentials.

 

I think Glenn was speaking facetiously.

 

Happy Caching!

Lori V.

TeamVilla5

 

I guess I should have included a few or or even a .

People go nuts when a $5 TB goes missing, imagine what reponse to "Taken Epi-pen, Left McToy" would be.

[+cachefamily]

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions.

 

Perfectly stated.

[+Glenn]

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions.

 

Perfectly stated.

 

I don't recall typing that. I wish I did tho. That quote should be credited to [RR]Macavity and not me.

[+cachefamily]

 

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any situation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions.

 

Perfectly stated.

 

I don't recall typing that. I wish I did tho. That quote should be credited to [RR]Macavity and not me.

 

Sorry 'bout that. I was trying to cut the quote down and I removed the wrong author.

[+sbell111]

I stick with my previous opinion. The danger appears to be from peanut dust, such as from a can of roasted peanuts, nut from a peanut butter sandwich.

Maybe you missed the story referenced earlier about the teen who died of anaphylactic shock after kissing her boyfriend who had eaten peanut butter sandwich HOURS earlier in the day.

I didn't miss it. In fact, the referenced story fits with my point.

 

A person eats a PB&J. They have some amount of PB remaining on their lips. Later (who cares how long as long as he didn't wash his face) he kisses his sweetie. The kiss transfers the PB protiens from his lips to hers. Bing-Bang-Boom, dead sweetie.

 

My point that you referenced discussed trace PB in the air and that the danger appears to be from the protiens (peanut dust, in my example; PB in yours), not peanut oils that may have leached into a well-bleached PB jar.

[+reveritt]

Why not just allow the PB jar to remain identifiable as such? Or if it is a concern, why not just use a different container? This is such a stupid argument!

[[RR]Macavity]

 

I guess I should have included a few or or even a .

People go nuts when a $5 TB goes missing, imagine what reponse to "Taken Epi-pen, Left McToy" would be.

 

 

Perhaps. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether someone's joking around and when he's being serious in text-based environments.

 

(By the way, that was something I hadn't thought about when I was posting earlier - "Took Epi-Pen, left {insert worthless piece-o-junk}". That's another reason why people shouldn't put Epi-pens in caches. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't an Epi-pen a form of syringe - and thus verboten under the cache guidelines?)

[+rogueleader1977]

Are you serious?  My kid can't eat PB&J because somebody else is allergic?

 

That's just silly.

A couple of years ago, my daughter brought home a letter from school that asked parents not to put anything chocolate in children's lunches due to twins in her class having chocolate allergies.

 

Actually they probably had an intolerance. Though it would be possible to be allergic to choclate, with symptoms such as hives, swelling, difficulty breathing or worse respitory arrest, it is far more likely to be intolerant (upset stomach, etc) In wich case the teacher was probably trying to be 'fair' (since two kids couldn't have chocolate no one could) though I don't think she achieved that effect.

 

As far as nut allergies, another interesting note, they are not always the same as peanut allergies. I myself am VERY allergic to nuts, but not to peanuts. That is because peanuts are not nuts. Nuts by definition grow on a tree. Peanuts grow on a plant. Not saying that someone can't be allergic to both, just that they are not the same. Interesting topic, even if it has gotten off topic.

[adampierson]

As far as nut allergies, another interesting note, they are not always the same as peanut allergies. I myself am VERY allergic to nuts, but not to peanuts. That is because peanuts are not nuts. Nuts by definition grow on a tree. Peanuts grow on a plant. Not saying that someone can't be allergic to both, just that they are not the same. Interesting topic, even if it has gotten off topic.

 

Yup.. peanuts are in the legume (sp) family. They are more like beans than a nut.

[+sbell111]

One article that I read the other day stated that people with allergies to peanuts had a 50% chance of being allergice to some tree nuts.

 

I just felt like passing on that useless bit of trivia.

[+fishingdude720]

I just placed a cache that is in a Peanut Butter Jar (well washed)...on the web page I placed a warning for Nut Allergies. Has anyone come acrossed any difficulties/comments from those with allergies? Or is this bad etiquette on my part to use the PB jar?

 

Comments?

 

Don't lick the jar and nothing will happen.

[+greyhounder]

Macavity' date='Feb 8 2006, 12:39 PM' post='2026122']

 

I guess I should have included a few or or even a .

People go nuts when a $5 TB goes missing, imagine what reponse to "Taken Epi-pen, Left McToy" would be.

 

 

Perhaps. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether someone's joking around and when he's being serious in text-based environments.

 

(By the way, that was something I hadn't thought about when I was posting earlier - "Took Epi-Pen, left {insert worthless piece-o-junk}". That's another reason why people shouldn't put Epi-pens in caches. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't an Epi-pen a form of syringe - and thus verboten under the cache guidelines?)

Yes, plus you need a prescription for one. Might be some legality issues too....

 

Bec

[+DavidMac]

Dihydrogen Monoxide.

Ahhhhh.... H2O.

 

Ah, I thought he meant to say DMSO until I read farther down in the thread. Guess I just thought too hard about that one!

[+Davispak]

Most of your kitchen/cooking supply stores sell numerous plastic containers in all various shapes and sizes that are air tight and never had PB in them. They can cost from 1-10 dollars depending on how much you want to spend and how big you want it to be.

[+ScurvyDawgs]

most folks that put out cruddy conatiners also fill them with pretty unimpressive swag.

 

Ouch!

Well we certainly didn't see that coming!

[Rupert2]

My son has a severe peanut allergy. To date I have never had a problem with or have shyed away from caches in peanut butter jars. If you just wash them out with soap and hot water there should never be a problem (that seems like common sense). If there is residue left, the animals will tear the container apart anyways before any cachers can get to it. We carry an epi-pen just in case.

 

Who knows, if you find a cache placed my me, it might just be in a soy-nut-butter jar...

[SAWKS]

When I saw the title of the post, I thought by "Pb" you meant lead!

 

And I wondered why anyone would use a lead jar?!?!?

 

DUH! So animals can't carry it off...cachers included!

[+Thorn Cachers]

Macavity' date='Feb 6 2006, 11:05 AM' post='2021780']

I concur with sbell111, Glenn. We really should wait for evidence before demanding that people place Epipens in caches that are in containers such as PB jars et al.

 

I don't think anyone seriously suggests either banning PB jar caches or requiring Epi-pens. Well, OK, some may want to ban PB Jars as containers, but that has to do with how food jars do in the wild rather than allergies. As I've posted above, most parents of kids with allergies would just like a warning so we don't have to deal with a 5-year old at the cache being told he can't touch the "treasure." Yes, we know how unlikely it is to have problems if they are washed well and have sat in the weather a year--parents with kids like this have done pleanty of research--but we don't want our kid to be the "evidence." It wasn't to long ago that few of us thought kissing would be a problem.

 

Macavity' date='Feb 6 2006, 11:05 AM' post='2021780']

Also, there's nothing "only" about $100 Epi-pens.

 

This actually makes me feel good about my insurance. We only had to pay about $60 each. Of course, we have to have a pair for the school, a pair for home, and a pair to carry around. For each kid.

 

Macavity' date='Feb 6 2006, 11:05 AM' post='2021780']

Finally, you have to be able to rely on yourself to be ready for any siuation that's likely to occur - including allergic reactions. That means packing everything you may need for a trip (geocaching or otherwise) first, and then worrying about nonessentials.

 

Any parent who has a kid with significant nut allergies is prepared for this, or your equilivant of the Department of Child and Family Services would be interested in talking to them about neglect. We'd just like to be informed ahead of time.

 

The real point of this post is to explain a bit about Epi-pens. If you work with kids anymore, you need to know since it is a matter of time before you will have a kid with an Epi-pen in your class/troop/den, etc. (This is just FYI, no implications should be taken from this post by anyone.)

 

Epi-pens are an auto-injector (spring loaded needle) with a strong medicine in them. Anyone who gets injected with one needs to go to the hospital right away. They are only designed to make it so someone who can't breathe can get enough oxygen to the brain to have a short time to get to the hospital. Therefore, you don't give one to a kid unless the kid can't breathe or is showing other signs of lack of oxygen. Then you call 911 and go to the hospital.

 

Also, they should only be injected into the thigh. If it goes anywhere else, it can cause severe problems, such as loss of a limb. Basically, each pen has instructions, just read them. The delivery system is pretty idiot proof. But the medicine in one is dangerous enough that they would only be slightly more appropriate in a cache than Meth. (Don't put either in. And get counseling if you have the latter. )

Edited February 24, 2006 by Thorn Cachers