I Dont Get It...

[+bluevoodo]

I left a note on the following

 

Cache

 

Now im sure its happened before and it will happen again. But this is just ridiculous. This log clearly shows that people will disregard the rules and general guidelines of geocaching and city ordinances just to get a FTF. This park is Directly across from my sisters house. There is a sign that clearly states hours it is open. Sunrise to sunset. I went to this park about 15 minutes after the cache was posted at 8:39pm. I noticed the hours and did not attempt to go after it. Even though i know the area.

 

It just irritates me that these people (multiple) knowingly disregard any guideline.....

 

I could go on but ...naw

 

Bluevoodo

Edited January 18, 2006 by bluevoodo

[+the hermit crabs]

In fairness to the finders, there is nothing on the cache page listing the park hours. And the cache owner did not set the "24/7 with a red slash through it" attribute.

 

And if it was already dark when they got there, the sign (if there was one) may not have been visible.

[+bluevoodo]

I was under the belief that most parks ( at least in this area) close at sunset.

 

I still think its BS, as most parks around here have pretty set hours that are posted. Most of them are sunrise to sunset. If not dawn to dusk. The local caching clan around here know this, im sure.

 

Bluevoodo

[+GRANPA ALEX]

On the right coast, it IS light at 6:50 or after sunrise . . . is it not where you live? I know cuz that is when I feed my livestock.

[+bluevoodo]

Sunrise here is at about 7:55

 

Bluevoodo

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

On the right coast, it IS light at 6:50 or after sunrise . . . is it not where you live? I know cuz that is when I feed my livestock.

Not only does latitude (which affects the length of the day, particularly at the solstices) affect sunrise/sunset time, but where you are east-west in relation to the time zone boundary does. If two locations are at the same latitude and time zone but are say 500 miles apart east-west, the west location will have both a later sunrise and sunset time. In order for the two locations to have the same sunrise-sunset time, we would have to keep changing clocks as we move.

 

Indeed, this is what was done until 1883, when the concept of time zones were invented, as faster transportation (railroads at the time) made the constant changing of clocks rather inconvenient.

 

While this is not a perfect example (because there's about a 2 degree latitude difference), I'll compare my own location just north of New York City with my sister's near Buffalo, NY, about 5 degrees longitude difference. Right now sunrise here is about 7:15am, but by her it's more like 7:40am. So there's lots of variation in relatively short distances, in fact, I think it's only light at 6:50am on the east coast from Boston or so on east right now (with the offset being that it still gets dark there closer to 4:30pm than 5 like here). I get up around 6:45am on weekdays for work and right now it's still pretty dark.

Edited January 19, 2006 by hairymon

[+bluevoodo]

On the right coast, it IS light at 6:50 or after sunrise . . . is it not where you live? I know cuz that is when I feed my livestock.

Not only does latitude (which affects the length of the day, particularly at the solstices) affect sunrise/sunset time, but where you are east-west in relation to the time zone boundary does. If two locations are at the same latitude and time zone but are say 500 miles apart east-west, the west location will have both a later sunrise and sunset time. In order for the two locations to have the same sunrise-sunset time, we would have to keep changing clocks as we move.

 

Indeed, this is what was done until 1883, when the concept of time zones were invented, as faster transportation (railroads at the time) made the constant changing of clocks rather inconvenient.

 

While this is not a perfect example (because there's about a 2 degree latitude difference), I'll compare my own location just north of New York City with my sister's near Buffalo, NY, about 5 degrees longitude difference. Right now sunrise here is about 7:15am, but by her it's more like 7:40am. So there's lots of variation in relatively short distances, in fact, I think it's only light at 6:50am on the east coast from Boston or so on east right now (with the offset being that it still gets dark there closer to 4:30pm than 5 like here).

I agree. With the sunrise and all.

 

BUT

 

Thats not what im getting at here people.

 

o well

 

Bluevoodo

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I was under the belief that most parks ( at least in this area) close at sunset.

 

I still think its BS, as most parks around here have pretty set hours that are posted. Most of them are sunrise to sunset. If not dawn to dusk. The local caching clan around here know this, im sure.

 

Bluevoodo

I couldn't tell you the park hours on any park I've visited. They aren't always posted where you'll see them, especially if you're walking in.

[+Davispak]

I like how this thread turned into a discussion of sunrise/sunset times in different areas of a time zone. I think waht he was talking about is the rabidness of some FTF hounds.

Now, I am not going to say that I wasn't a little rambunctious to get my First FTF and I got up at 5:30 a.m. and got to the park at daylight to go get it, but I was still within the boundries of the local ordinances. The cache had a puzzle and I solved it the night before, but knew that the parks around here had hours, as I believe they probably have in 90% of the parks in the United States. This has been done so that people who are up to no good are not doing it in parks after dark.

I think it is kinda silly to race out and break the law to get a FTF. Slow down, and stop being so competative.

[+NoLemon]

I was under the belief that most parks ( at least in this area) close at sunset.

Within a reasonable distance from where I am right now (Blue Ash, OH), there are parks that close at 6pm, 11pm, sunset and dusk. Additionally, while caching in the last several months, I have been to parks that had signs posted with closing times of 9pm, 10pm, midnight, and "dark." I have a cache hidden in a park that closes at 10:30pm (and the cache page says so).

 

Given that different parks in the same metro area, and occasionally different parks in the same park system, have different closing times, I don't automatically assume that a park closes at any particular time. In fact, unless I see a sign when I enter the park that would lead me to know otherwise, I assume the park is open.

[+bluevoodo]

So ignorance is ok then, i guess?

 

I guess im alone in thinking its common place to know that "most" parks are "Usually" closed after dark.

 

Bluevoodo

[+bluevoodo]

I like how this thread turned into a discussion of sunrise/sunset times in different areas of a time zone. I think waht he was talking about is the rabidness of some FTF hounds.

Now, I am not going to say that I wasn't a little rambunctious to get my First FTF and I got up at 5:30 a.m. and got to the park at daylight to go get it, but I was still within the boundries of the local ordinances. The cache had a puzzle and I solved it the night before, but knew that the parks around here had hours, as I believe they probably have in 90% of the parks in the United States. This has been done so that people who are up to no good are not doing it in parks after dark.

I think it is kinda silly to race out and break the law to get a FTF. Slow down, and stop being so competative.

Thank you! !!! ! !

 

THats what i am speaking of

 

Bluevoodo

[+sbell111]

If it wasn't posted on the cache page and I didn't notice a sign specifying particular hours, I would typically assume that an unfenced park was open.

 

I'm sorry that you are unhappy that everyone did agree with you.

[+Miragee]

I posted the Park Hours for one of my caches and one of the FTF seekers did not attempt to go in the park before it opened.

 

Another cache in this area was archived after Geocachers, who ignored park closure hours, angered a neighbor whose dog barked at the people wandering around the park adjacent to his back yard after dark.

 

The cache owner should edit their cache page to state the Park Hours. That still won't prevent FTF hounds from ignoring signs. It does remove responsibility for any misunderstandings from the cache hider . . .

[+ZackJones]

It's possible the first hunters didn't see the sign with hours or it's possible they saw it and chose to ignore it. Since you appear to be local to the hider how about contacting him/her and offering some assistance with updating the cache page with park hours and it seems, from reading the logs, that the coords may be off some. So you missed a FTF on a cache, big whoop, there will be other opportunities.

[+cudlecub]

Unless I can see the hours posted at a park when it's dark, I avoid them. I do the same with cemetaries. You first said there's a sign clearly saying sunrise to sunset and then you said you assume. You know what they say when you assume?

[+Davispak]

North Carolina law states that unless the park has posted at the entrance that there is camping allowed, then overnight stays are not permitted. In the governance of the parks the State sets the guidelines that the local municipalities can set times for access to parks but that park can be closed at any time by the authority of an authorized agent.

Now what does all that mean, you ask? What it means is that if you are caught in a park after dark by any LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) if he feels you shouldn't be there, he can and will charge you with trespassing. Doesn't matter what any silly little sign says

"But wait", you say," I don't live in North Carolina" . well that"s all well and good, but I'll bet you lunch that all the other 49 states and a few of the territories have laws on the books just like this.

"But I've been going into parks after dark for years and haven't been stopped or arrested yet" Sure, ok, If you feel comfortable rolling those dice.But most criminals get caught because they get lax and take risks

Now you have to ask yourself one more question " am i willing to risk a criminal record for a FTF?

[+New England n00b]

There's a cache in my area that, IMO, circumvents a "No Trespassing" sign. I made a note of it in a log 'note' that I terminated my search until I new permission was obtained. Kinda disappointed how many actually went through ad found it (probably out of ignorance, not deliberate).

 

Numbers aren't everything. FTF isn't everything. There is a certain level of responsibility we all should partake of in order to prevent degradation of our activity in the eyes of land managers.

[+JMBella]

Good Lord... There's got to be something more important for you to complain about.

[+Cache Heads]

Must be a locational thing. I've never thought twice about going into a park after dark here in SoCal..... we used to hang out in parks at night when we were kids and where would the homeless people sleep if the parks were closed?

 

[CoyoteRed]

Don't worry about it. You could have posted the hours of the park in BIG RED LETTERS and folks would have still chosen to ignore it.

 

Look at a sister thread where folks are saying it's okay to ignore "No Trespassing" signs.

 

The participants of this hobby are its own worse enemy.

Edited January 19, 2006 by CoyoteRed

[+Miragee]

Agreed!

 

. . .  Another cache in this area was archived after Geocachers, who ignored park closure hours, angered a neighbor whose dog barked at the people wandering around the park adjacent to his back yard after dark . . . )

Because cachers were ignoring the Park Hours, this neighbor emptied out the cache, which had been a Brownie/Girl Scout troop project, and put dog poop in the container.

 

The cacher who found the cache in that condition was not happy, but then neither was the homeowner whose quiet evenings kept being disturbed by his dog barking at the strangers walking around where they were not supposed to be.

 

Is it the lure of the GPSr arrow that makes otherwise-reasonable people willing to flout laws/park hours? Or are these people not reasonable to begin with?

 

Don't answer that . . . it's a rhetorical question . . .

[CerealBoxQueen]

Because cachers were ignoring the Park Hours, this neighbor emptied out the cache, which had been a Brownie/Girl Scout troop project, and put dog poop in the container.

 

The cacher who found the cache in that condition was not happy, but then neither was the homeowner whose quiet evenings kept being disturbed by his dog barking at the strangers walking around where they were not supposed to be.

That's really icky and straight not healthy. If you could prove that he knowingly set excrement in a public place where it might have been found by children, you could probably sue. (They are tightening the doggy-doo doo laws nowindays)

 

But I in part agree that is sad that people are so crazy about being the FTF.

But I also disagree with the park rules statement as I myself have trespassed upon park grounds more than one time in my life in unrelated-to-geocaching matters and feel it's not as big a deal as a lot of people believe, depending on how close people live to the park.

 

But I believe the guy you spoke of was out of bounds and way in the wrong and I think someone should have spoken to him about his behavior.

 

~~Cereal Box Queen

[+Night Stalker]

My question is, are the people who disregard laws and common sense also readers of these forums, or are you preaching to the choir?

[+sbell111]

North Carolina law states that unless the park has posted at the entrance that there is camping allowed, then overnight stays are not permitted. In the governance of the parks the State sets the guidelines that the local municipalities can set times for access to parks but that park can be closed at any time by the authority of an authorized agent.

Now what does all that mean, you ask? What it means is that if you are caught in a park after dark by any LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) if he feels you shouldn't be there, he can and will charge you with trespassing. Doesn't matter what any silly little sign says ...

I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection between your two thoughts. First, you state that municipalities can set any hours they want. You follow by stating that your first point means that one can be arrested for trespassing no matter what hours are on the sign.

 

I can't connect those two dots. In my opinion, your first point means that a municipality can put whatever hours they want on the sign or they can lock the gate and that either of these two actions should be obeyed. I certainly agree with this interpretation and I believe that everyone else does also.

 

Does that mean that some will disregard the hours. Well, yes. Some will.

 

Does it mean that some will not notice the sign with the hours on it. Of course.

 

What does that mean to the geocaching community? Perhaps that we should all look for the sign when entering a park at night. We probably all agree with this, also.

[Ferreter5]

...was not happy, but then neither was the homeowner whose quiet evenings kept being disturbed by his dog barking at the strangers walking around where they were not supposed to be.

The cachers shouldn't ignore posted park hours (most parks around here have them posted at all the main drive-in entrances/parking areas). I know I don't.

 

However, it is the dog owner's responsiblity to control his dog, including barking. Dogs should be trained to watch. That means they bark and alert when they hear/see something, but immediately stop upon command from the owner. I swear, most people who have dogs shouldn't because they don't put in the time necessary to train and care for them properly.

[+Davispak]

Sorry Sbell, I thought it was a little clearer, but I sometimes forget that laws are written by lawyers to be obscure so that lawyers have a job. When I was a police officer, we were periodically given training updates and Trespassing was one of them. The real gist of my post was that if a Police officer finds you in a park after dark, depending on his mood, time of night, and if you are honest with him ( as I read in one thread where people are making up stories as to why they are where they are) he may decide to arrest you The main thing is you are taking a risk by going into parks after hours. If you are comfortable with that, then fine go ahead.

I am not saying that if you go into a park you will be arrested or mugged or kidnapped by aliens, but being a kinda law n order guy, I choose not to do so.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Davispak

[+Davispak]

Sorry to keep adding, but it should also be incumbent upon the listing person to know if the park has hours, what they are, and to post them on the page so they can be known by anyone who goes after the cache. then it is on the seeker if they go to the area after hours to get a cache.

[+Astro_D]

My OPINION is as follows:

 

I know several teams who go into parks after dark when its prohibited just to add another cache find before they call it quits. I don't agree with it.

 

Ignorance (i.e. didn't see a sign, didn't know the park hours etc) on the part of the cacher is NOT a valid excuse to go wandering around after dark in search of geocache - FTF or not. Then to say that the cache owner should post the hours the cache is available on the cache listing? What happened to individual responsibility and common sense?

 

It is the actions of a few bad apples that will ruin this for the rest of us. As a cache owner, if a cacher logs they were at my cache after permitted hours, I would delete the log (thankfully, I never had too). I'm not in the habit of condoning illegal activity.

[Ferreter5]

As a cache hider I'd hope that if the park hours listed for one of my caches doesn't match that signs posted at the park (because they've changed since I had hidden the cache) that some kind cache seeker who noticed this would let me know so I can update the information on the cache listing.

[+Criminal]

I noticed the hours and did not attempt to go after it. Even though i know the area.

 

It just irritates me that these people (multiple) knowingly disregard any guideline.....

 

And you got worked into a lather because....?

 

I can speculate that it's sour grapes, you didn't get a precious FTF. Maybe the parks department mails your sister a fine when people go into the park after hours.

 

When it comes right down to it, it doesn't affect you. MYOB.

[+sbell111]

Sorry Sbell, I thought it was a little clearer, but I sometimes forget that laws are written by lawyers to be obscure so that lawyers have a job. When I was a police officer, we were periodically given training updates and Trespassing was one of them. The real gist of my post was that if a Police officer finds you in a park after dark, depending on his mood, time of night, and if you are honest with him ( as I read in one thread where people are making up stories as to why they are where they are) he may decide to arrest you The main thing is you are taking a risk by going into parks after hours. If you are comfortable with that, then fine go ahead.

I am not saying that if you go into a park you will be arrested or mugged or kidnapped by aliens, but being a kinda law n order guy, I choose not to do so.

I think we are in agreement that we shouldn't cache in parks after the posted hours. I disagree that I should be concerned about being arrested for tresspassing if I am in a park during the posted hours, whether it is night or day.

 

I'm kind of a lwa and order guy, too, but I will get bent if I were to be arrested for hunting a cache within the posted hours.

 

Speaking of Law and Order guys, has anyone else noticed that if you recognize the actor on L&O, he did it.

[+Jeep_Dog]

I agree with you Criminal, in that I am not certain whether the OP is irritated about the transgression of entering the park when it was closed or irritated by losing FTF.

 

However, I disagree with the point of it not affecting anyone else. If, perhaps, such cachers get caught after dark, and admitted to their activity of geocaching, perhaps the land manager would see geocachers as a bunch of folks who disregard rules, and caching is banned from the park. If in a city park, perhaps even the city banning caches from all parks.

 

We build our own credibility (or lack thereof) as a community. Overall, I think the geocaching community has great credibility. That is an asset I would be sad to see the community loose.

 

Yet, I acknowledge playing ethically and abiding by land managers/owners rules is how *I* play the game. I also note that is how most of the geocachers I come across also play, so we can weather the storm of the few that do not. Perhaps a worse evil are a bunch of geocachers cramming their sense of morality down others' throats.

[+Criminal]

I agree with you Criminal, ...snip

So what am I supposed to do with all that E&E training the Air Force gave me? I certainly don’t want to get rusty.

 

When I was younger, some dastardly teenagers would use the parks after hours for partying. If the cops came, we…er, they, could see them coming from a log way off. Then the beer was slugged down as fast as possible and the bottles heaved as far into the trees as possible.

 

So they closed the parks after hours.

 

It’s ironic, I changed my profile photo and avatar yesterday to the one here, taken during a late night cache recovery operation on a closed and guarded railroad trestle.

[Hi, I'm Johnny Cache]

You said it Jeep Dog! This is a big-big game. It takes all kinds and there are all kinds out there. Play how you want to play, and be the best you can be at it. Many people play for different reasons, let the extreme FTF'ers do what they think they have to do, and just stay out of their way. I do agree that local laws should be obeyed, and those that break the law are subject to the consequences. don't worry, be happy!...Johnny

[+bluevoodo]

I agree with you Criminal, ...snip

So what am I supposed to do with all that E&E training the Air Force gave me? I certainly don’t want to get rusty.

 

When I was younger, some dastardly teenagers would use the parks after hours for partying. If the cops came, we…er, they, could see them coming from a log way off. Then the beer was slugged down as fast as possible and the bottles heaved as far into the trees as possible.

 

So they closed the parks after hours.

 

It’s ironic, I changed my profile photo and avatar yesterday to the one here, taken during a late night cache recovery operation on a closed and guarded railroad trestle.

Here i thought the smart ones went to the Air Force.

 

US Army Fox Recon. 8 years.

 

I can find better places to practice E & E than in City Parks. Its also not about an FTF. Its about blatant disregard to posted signs and the sort.

 

My original point being that the park was closed when several cachers still decided to locate the item. One even brags of being watched by people in the neighborhood after dark. Its right in the middle of the neighborhood. With posted hours.

 

Dont come in here telling me to "MYOB". I think your out of line there trooper.

 

Carry on

 

Bluevoodo

[Pinster56]

Must be a locational thing.  I've never thought twice about going into a park after dark here in SoCal.....  we used to hang out in parks at night when we were kids and where would the homeless people sleep if the parks were closed?

 

 

Ah, California...the land of fruits and nuts....you people live in another world--I guess there are no murderers, drug dealers, gangs, or perverts there, so everyone is safe to play in the parks at 3:00AM.

[+Kit Fox]

I agree with you Criminal, in that I am not certain whether the OP is irritated about the transgression of entering the park when it was closed or irritated by losing FTF.

 

However, I disagree with the point of it not affecting anyone else. If, perhaps, such cachers get caught after dark, and admitted to their activity of geocaching, perhaps the land manager would see geocachers as a bunch of folks who disregard rules, and caching is banned from the park. If in a city park, perhaps even the city banning caches from all parks.

 

We build our own credibility (or lack thereof) as a community. Overall, I think the geocaching community has great credibility. That is an asset I would be sad to see the community loose.

 

Yet, I acknowledge playing ethically and abiding by land managers/owners rules is how *I* play the game. I also note that is how most of the geocachers I come across also play, so we can weather the storm of the few that do not. Perhaps a worse evil are a bunch of geocachers cramming their sense of morality down others' throats.

The real issue isn't FTF, it is the negative perception that this gives geocachers.

 

One need only to review the pictures of cachers, in the dark, in closed cemetaries, that were used, as evidence, by South Carolina Legislatures. Bragging about breaking rules/laws etc, will come back to bite geocachers in the A@#!

 

This isn't about minding one's business, but rather playing the game lawfully, with full regard to posted rules/ laws etc.

[+StarBrand]

At least where I live, there is no open/close for any city park I know of. I have lived in a varity of towns across Wyoming and Nebraska and don't personally know of any such restrictions. And most parks around here have at most one or 2 signs around them but many more ways to arrive and walk around.

 

Not excusing anybody but it is not "common knowledge" that city parks close when the sun goes down.

 

Should always list on the cache page any restricted hours anyway.

[+CamoCacher]

Got to agree that many parks, many states, etc have different hours. While in this case it was local cachers who may or may not have known the hours posting hours of the park on the cache page will help us out of towners who may come down to cache.

 

Another thought I had is I know as a kid there were many late nights spent playing tag in the local park in our neighborhood, as well as many other games, not sure if there were hours that it closed or not but I remeber being out till 930-1000 on a summer night with no issues.

 

Yes I know times have changed and so there are more dangers for ALL of us to be aware of if we are out after dark, caching or not.

[+mahgnillig]

Another cache in this area was archived after Geocachers, who ignored park closure hours, angered a neighbor whose dog barked at the people wandering around the park adjacent to his back yard after dark.

This person needs to train his dog properly... putting poop in a cache because his dog barks is ridiculous. I wish more people would accept responsibility for the behaviour of their pets.

 

As for park closing hours... isn't it all a bit petty? It's hardly going to net you a criminal record if you're caught wandering in a park at midnight. The rule is there to stop drug dealers congregating or vagrants sleeping in the park... if it weren't for the real criminals then there would be no need for such silly rules.

 

Question for people who don't go into parks after dark: do you always drive under the speed limit?

 

- Jen.

[+Hydnckr]

I left a note on the following

 

Cache

 

Now im sure its happened before and it will happen again. But this is just ridiculous. This log clearly shows that people will disregard the rules and general guidelines of geocaching and city ordinances just to get a FTF. This park is Directly across from my sisters house. There is a sign that clearly states hours it is open. Sunrise to sunset. I went to this park about 15 minutes after the cache was posted at 8:39pm. I noticed the hours and did not attempt to go after it. Even though i know the area.

 

It just irritates me that these people (multiple) knowingly disregard any guideline.....

 

I could go on but ...naw

 

Bluevoodo

I wonder why these types of topics are even started here on gc.com. If the OP has a problem with something that local cachers have done, then why doesn't the OP send a private email to those individual cachers?

 

Also there exists the option of the airing of concerns in the local geocaching organization's forums.

 

National forums are simply a way of causing angst rather than finding a solution.

 

Oh, did I mention I'm from the local area ? and those "offenders" are friends of mine.

 

There are local forums available at www.nwogeo.org

 

Thanks!

[+jslagle]

I'm gonna add my reply I made on our local groups, as someone who is more in the know on the local laws in this area.

 

I glanced through the gc.com forum on this, and heres my take as someone who 1) has many caches, 2) isn't necessarily a FTF hound, and 3) has been caching a long time.

 

Within 25 miles of Toledo, we have parks closing anywhere from Sunset, to 30 minutes after Sunset, to 11PM. The Toledo City Parks (If thats where this was located, as I haven't looked), seem to have sunrise->sunset or no hours posted.

 

The metroparks are testing new "extended" hours based on many other parks in the area (Cleveland comes to mind) have gone to extended hours. See informaiton their new hours here. It's worth noting they are after dark almost all the times.

 

To my knowledge, most if not all of the state parks are open until 11PM. A quick check reveals this to be the case except for a few exceptions.

 

Spooky Park for instance is placed in a "Community Organization" park with no posted hours I could find.

 

I've also seen parks in this area that list 10PM closing times, but none of them on the web that I can verify closing times for.

 

I don't think any assumption about the hours a park is open is safe, even in this area. It used to be most parks were dawn->dusk, but more and more are staying open late.

 

Even those parks that do list sunset as closing are frequently not empty at dark. When I hid "M is for Micro" I did it at night due to the possibility of raising suspicion in the day, but there were still runners using the track. At the park at the end of the steet I live at (Which also has a cache), I often note people playing there after dark - I don't think they hurt anyone.

 

During one of my rare "FTF"'s recently, I found myself at a Toledo City Park at 9:30 PM - Everyone Playfair was the cache. I sat on the bench to decode it, then went back to my car to deal with the data. I cop pulled in behind me, but he was more concerned that I was OK then what I was doing.

 

While, it's not worth jeopordizing our ability to places caches somewhere by going into parks afterhours that have clear posted hours (ie: Metroparks), I see little harm in quick trips into local city parks to make a quick grab. I usually use sense, and if people take notice of me I will leave. But, if park hours are NOT posted, and I drive to get to the park, and the cache isn't marked NOT 24/7, I get annoyed. It was a wasted trip.

 

Perhaps we can all learn from this - those advid FTF hounds can use some caution when doing the crazy a** night hunts (I know at least one of you was in a metropark during off times to FTF a cache - shame on you. We spent a lot of time trying to befriend them, and I'd hate to have it hurt by that), but at the same time, perhaps it's time to teach cachers to be a little more descriptive in their hides. I'm somewhat sick of caches with 1 line descriptions. Perhaps I'm guilty too.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Another cache in this area was archived after Geocachers, who ignored park closure hours, angered a neighbor whose dog barked at the people wandering around the park adjacent to his back yard after dark.

This person needs to train his dog properly... putting poop in a cache because his dog barks is ridiculous. I wish more people would accept responsibility for the behaviour of their pets.

Sounds to me like the dog is trained quite well. I want my dogs to alert me to people prowling adjacent to my property after dark, as well.

[+Henki]

I guess im alone in thinking its common place to know that "most" parks are "Usually" closed after dark.

 

In this area of Louisiana, the parks are open until 10:00 p.m.

[+Clan X-Man]

I agree with you Criminal, in that I am not certain whether the OP is irritated about the transgression of entering the park when it was closed or irritated by losing FTF. 

 

However, I disagree with the point of it not affecting anyone else.  If, perhaps, such cachers get caught after dark, and admitted to their activity of geocaching, perhaps the land manager would see geocachers as a bunch of folks who disregard rules, and caching is banned from the park.  If in a city park, perhaps even the city banning caches from all parks. 

 

We build our own credibility (or lack thereof) as a community.  Overall, I think the geocaching community has great credibility.  That is an asset I would be sad to see the community loose. 

 

Yet, I acknowledge playing ethically and abiding by land managers/owners rules is how *I* play the game.  I also note that is how most of the geocachers I come across also play, so we can weather the storm of the few that do not.  Perhaps a worse evil are a bunch of geocachers cramming their sense of morality down others' throats.

The real issue isn't FTF, it is the negative perception that this gives geocachers.

 

One need only to review the pictures of cachers, in the dark, in closed cemetaries, that were used, as evidence, by South Carolina Legislatures. Bragging about breaking rules/laws etc, will come back to bite geocachers in the A@#!

 

This isn't about minding one's business, but rather playing the game lawfully, with full regard to posted rules/ laws etc.

Thanks, Kit Fox!

 

X

[+Criminal]

I agree with you Criminal, ...snip

So what am I supposed to do with all that E&E training the Air Force gave me? I certainly don’t want to get rusty.

 

When I was younger, some dastardly teenagers would use the parks after hours for partying. If the cops came, we…er, they, could see them coming from a log way off. Then the beer was slugged down as fast as possible and the bottles heaved as far into the trees as possible.

 

So they closed the parks after hours.

 

It’s ironic, I changed my profile photo and avatar yesterday to the one here, taken during a late night cache recovery operation on a closed and guarded railroad trestle.

Here i thought the smart ones went to the Air Force.

 

US Army Fox Recon. 8 years.

 

I can find better places to practice E & E than in City Parks. Its also not about an FTF. Its about blatant disregard to posted signs and the sort.

 

My original point being that the park was closed when several cachers still decided to locate the item. One even brags of being watched by people in the neighborhood after dark. Its right in the middle of the neighborhood. With posted hours.

 

Dont come in here telling me to "MYOB". I think your out of line there trooper.

 

Carry on

 

Bluevoodo

Man, I thought my life was miserable, but after listening to you rant on about property you don't even own with such righteous indignation, you have made me feel much better! Thanks!

 

Dont come in here telling me to "MYOB". I think your out of line there trooper.

 

you're = you are.

 

Work on that ok?

[+Criminal]

Here i thought the smart ones went to the Air Force.

Watch the personal attacks too there trooper.

[+bluevoodo]

Here i thought the smart ones went to the Air Force.

Watch the personal attacks too there trooper.

Need a tissue???

 

Get over it, i am...

 

Bluevoodo

[ParentsofSAM]

I can not believe most everyone thinks this is no big deal!

 

People broke the LAW to get a cache. Not just to get a FTF; the other few finders ignored posted hours also. (Assuming that the hours are in fact posted) Bluevoodo may be upset about the fact that he did not get the FTF, but there is a bigger picture here.

 

Like Kit Fox pointed out the legislature in South Carolina is working on regulating Geocaching in that state, they have used examples like this to try to get the law passed, and probably will again in the future. They even find and use examples of bad caching behavior from other states.

 

How long before the legislature in YOUR state starts to regulate your geocaching? The last thing this activity needs is people posting that they INTENTIONALLY disobeyed posted park hours to geocache, then later saying to people who pointed out the wrong doing 'so what'. The fact is ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it.

 

I think the attitude of 'Its your game play it how you want' might need to change. It is ok to play how you want but also be sure you follow all the rules and especially the law.