Where Does It Go

[tossedsalad]

I read the entire thread on electrical box cache hides and made a couple of posts myself. But the larger problem is how can we continue to make creative hides when the old stuff just doesn't seem to cut it anymore?

 

Personally, I am tired of trying to solve crypto puzzles, look for micros in the woods and don't get a kick from walking a couple of miles looking for an ammo box. For every cache I have found that was interesting in the way it was hidden or the type of container or the puzzle you had to solve to find it, there are 10 that are just tossed out by the side of the road or dropped in the middle of the woods.

 

I have gone more from hunting to placing caches. But I am becoming stymied by the rules preventing caches that seem safe and reasonable, but just don't make it by the reviewer. The guidelines are so subjective that any cache can be considered to be a violation. Check the guidelines and you will find several "catch-all" sections that leave it up to the reviewer to add any additional restrictions.

 

With placing interesting caches becoming harder to do and the hunting becoming more boring, I am starting to lose interest in the sport.

[+NoLemon]

If you are tired of puzzles, micros, ammo cans and hiking in the woods, then it sounds like you may need to take a sabbatical from caching.

[+Team Neos]

Perhaps you just need to take a break?

[+KoosKoos]

Maybe try an alternative listing site?

[+CYBret]

The guidelines are so subjective that any cache can be considered to be a violation. Check the guidelines and you will find several "catch-all" sections that leave it up to the reviewer to add any additional restrictions.

And yet new caches get listed EVERY day. How do people get by with that?!?!!?

 

Maybe they carefully explain the ins-and-outs of their caches to the reviewers. Communication is the key. I've had a few of my caches questioned and after some explanation I've managed to have all of them approved.

 

Can't win them all, but looking at the number of notification emails I've received in the last few days apparently a lot of them are being won.

 

Bret

[+radioscout]

Search for interesting locations that almost no one knows about and hide a cache there. Look out for old ruins in the forest, hidden caves, great viewpoints and other interesting places.

 

edit: typo

Edited January 6, 2006 by radioscout

[+kentuckygirls]

For us most of the time its the journey, not the destination. If the hide is a challenge at the end of a hike then thats just a bonus!!

[+mrking]

For us most of the time its the journey, not the destination.  If the hide is a challenge at the end of a hike then thats just a bonus!!

Yeah that is all fine and dandy. But on a recent cache run here in BC, Canada, there are alot of new ones in the area, so I went out today to get a few. Let me tell you about them...

 

All were in local parks, so nothing too thrilling.

 

One was a baggy behind a pole

Two were boxes behind trees with leaves on em

one was in a typical "challenge" spot - bunch of logs - ooo, can you find what crevis there in - oooo, joy.

Another was in a woody area under a stump....

 

How friggin boring are these. I am sure they just drove around to every park in the city and just tossed a cache at the first spot they saw - as All caches were no more than 100m away from parking.

 

To me this is just too lame. Needless to say I have boycotted all caches placed by this couple.

 

My last cache (Crystal Falls) was a 3km hike (6km round trip) into the woods to a water fall that I would never have knew about if it wasn't for this cache. The hide was excellent. No micro in a rock fall, just a well placed ammo can with a hint that still made you wonder where it was. Now THAT is a cache!

 

Not this drop crap in the middle of a park junk.

Edited January 6, 2006 by mrking

[+Alan2]

Tossedsalad I checked your pictures and they're really good. But you only posted a dozen or so. Why? You like closeups. Insects. Why don't you combine picture taking with you caching and look for interesteing things to shoot while you're hiking. And post 'em. You've got a knack.

[bogleman]

I have a couple of large caches in the works and they both have creative paint styles. Not the typical cammo but really funky. Just something that I have never seen. I want folks to say _______ is that and get a laugh out of it.

[tossedsalad]

Yeah, that is the sort of thing I am seeing. The standard sort of stuff just is no fun after you find a few dozen of the same thing. I don't think I need a water fall to make a cache interesting, just a new way of looking at something I've seen before.

 

But like I said, I prefer to hide caches. Mostly people seem to really like my hides, but I just have so much trouble with the reviewers when I try to place them. One reviewer said I was lying and must be working for an establishment I was trying to highlight with a cache. I was finally able to get it placed, but only because I happened to find a perfect "hide under your nose" cache container on closeout sale at Walmart. Just pure luck.

 

I had one archived the other day that I liked a lot and now the reviewer has refused to even consider a cache that is 450 feet from another even though there is no way to move either of them. Turns out there are two perfect hiding spots on opposite sides of a road. Actually, the one is a puzzle cache that has two markers. You then have to solve a geometry problem to find the cache. It is the markers that are too close to the other hide I want to do. The new hide would be on a three level retaining wall. I thought it would be fun to make the horizontal coordinates interact with the vertical walls so you did not know which level to look on. Knowing that being 450 feet from the other markers could be a problem I asked before I did all the word. Tthe reviewer said she would not even consider this since they were both my caches. I can't follow that logic.

 

It already takes a lot of time to design a good cache, not counting the time it takes to find a good location. When an opportunity presents itself, I hate to turn it down. Good caches don't just grow on trees, so to speak. With the rejections I have had resently and the justifications I am given, I really don't know how to plan a good cache.

 

Yes, lots of caches are approved every day. But how many of them are really worth finding? I guess I'll just have to do like some of the others around here and put them deep into storm drains and on high bridges. Yeah, that takes a lot of imagination.

[+cachew nut]

For every cache I have found that was interesting in the way it was hidden or the type of container or the puzzle you had to solve to find it, there are 10 that are just tossed out by the side of the road or dropped in the middle of the woods.

Wow, that would mean that you only found a dozen or so interesting caches in your whole career! I would have quit a long time ago. Good for you that you are concentrating on good hides instead.

 

I guess I'm lucky, I've enjoyed the majority of my finds. I'd say the number of caches I didn't like were less than a dozen, but maybe I forgot about some. I'd have to go look at my logs, but if I've already forgotten about them, why remind myself?

[+wimseyguy]

Over 60 new caches listed in MD since 12/1/05, and only 5-6 meet your high standards? It might be time to take a break, or look at another listing service with looser guidelines then.

 

There is a complaint thread in the Off Topic Forum though.

[+carleenp]

Surely there are ways to place interesting, creative and fun caches without pushing questions like electrical safety etc? If there is an issue with things it is likely for a reason. Why try to push buttons by forcing that? Instead brainstorm unique stuff that is OK. I continually see fun unique caches. Some are creative containers, some are because of the hike, some the hide is wicked etc. And they all meet the guidelines and/or don't worry other cachers over fuzzy issues like electrical boxes seem to. I know it is both possible and frequently done.

Edited January 6, 2006 by carleenp

[+Moose Mob]

When the first car was made, it was bpretty basic, then they added roofs, doors, made covetrables, radios, stereo systems, and most of all, safety stuff like seat belts and air bags. After awhile, the innovations became less frequent and not quite as phenominal. So, where does geocaching fit into all of this? Add cupholders to your cache container.

[tossedsalad]

Surely there are ways to place interesting, creative and fun caches without pushing questions like electrical safety etc? If there is an issue with things it is likely for a reason. Why try to push buttons by forcing that? Instead brainstorm unique stuff that is OK. I continually see fun unique caches. Some are creative containers, some are because of the hike, some the hide is wicked etc. And they all meet the guidelines and/or don't worry other cachers over fuzzy issues like electrical boxes seem to. I know it is both possible and frequently done.

Why are you still talking electrical boxes? That was the other thread. Besides, the point of that thread was that people have different opinions of whether electrical boxe caches actually created any sort of hazard. This thread is about the limitations on placing creative caches. Actually, other than Iowa, electrical box caches are still good to go.

 

Hmmm... maybe I need to do a nice electrical box cache.

[+cachew nut]

Add cupholders to your cache container.

[+Airmapper]

I like to hide fairly small containers in leaves, flush with the ground. I have them all marked as 2.5 - 3 star diff. and sometimes people have trouble finding them. But, there is no controversy over them. I suppose they are different, because they are not in the "usual" place you'd look. I like making harder caches, and I hope those that hunt them enjoy the difficulty.

[+Team Perks]

That's pretty much why I haven't hidden very many caches in the past year--I simply ran out of ideas that haven't been done. In 2004, I hid 50 caches. In 2005, I hid five. Only one of last year's caches was what I would even call "creative" -- the rest were just basic caches in interesting or unusual spots.

 

Sometimes it seems I've seen them all. The fake sprinklers got old a long time ago. Then there's the library book caches. And the fake rocks, pinecones, bolts, animals, plants, car parts, light bulbs, bird houses, rubber dog poop, heck--even caches in real snail shells. Then there's the fire-tack caches, and the caches that require a pulley or a magnet on a string to retrieve.

 

With all that, it's hard to think of something that hasn't been done. And although finding caches has in some regards gotten easier, caching simply for caching's sake hasn't exactly gotten more enjoyable on its own.

 

As others have suggested, I've started combining caching with other activities I enjoy. In fact, that's inspired me to get back more into other hobbies I enjoy. Now I'm planning on getting a new and better camera to take good pictures of my journey, and am dumping a couple thousand dollars into the Jeep so I can make it more trail-worthy and explore some of the farther-flung caches I just haven't had the chance to find. I'm making a concerted effort to get my hiking boots on my feet more often and exploring the mountains near me.

 

My point, as others may have put more directly, is to not focus so much on the hunt for the cache, but to just enjoy the trip there.

 

Oh yeah, and quit reading the forums. That's guaranteed to bring you down.

[+tozainamboku]

I'm going to hide a puzzle cache and call it "Electrical Safety". You will have to know Ohm's law, the difference between mA and mAh, and what 4.5 amps for 2 seconds will do to the human body. The final containter will be a .....

 

In 2005, I hid five. Only one of last year's caches was what I would even call "creative"

Oh and that's why I haven't looked for one of Andy's cache in a year (except for the magnetic one last week in the rain that took me to an electric utility box )

Edited January 6, 2006 by tozainamboku

[+Miragee]

I took a long hike the other day. I put four cache containers in my daypack, each of them a different size. I didn't know what I was going to see or where I would place the caches, or even if I would place a cache.

 

Well, I found an abandoned relic from the past and put a magnetic keyholder on it to force people to work their way around this thing and really look at it.

 

A bit of guilt about that "micro in the hills" made me put the ammo can out a bit further down the trail.

 

I don't think the guy who saw the mountain lion yesterday cared about the "creativity" of the hides.

 

For me, the cache gets me out. I don't care how creatively it is hidden, as long as I get to go on a nice walk to someplace new . . . and find the cache when I get to GZ. I'm not interested in something hidden so creatively that I can't find it and have to go back again . . .

[+5¢]

I used to hate ammo boxes in the woods, now for some reason I am really starting to like them. I guess as times change so does taste. TS, give it some time, something will perk your interests. BTW your pictures are really good.

[+DocDiTTo]

I read the entire thread on electrical box cache hides and made a couple of posts myself.  But the larger problem is how can we continue to make creative hides when the old stuff just doesn't seem to cut it anymore? 

I've run into the same conundrum. I enjoy doing hides that are unique. I've had only 12 hides so far in my 15 months or so caching, but they were 12 good hides. Not perfect, but decent. Some are better than others. One or two are nothing much at all. One is probably the best (and most difficult cache) I'll ever hide. A couple take you to great scenic areas, a few require long/difficult hikes. Two involve pretty tricky puzzles. One is a very involved multi in a park, using all sorts of sneaky stages. One is a compass/bearing cache, that requires you to use more than just your GPSr. And one is a tricky urban micro that has had some pretty experienced cachers walking away with a DNF. I'm currently working with another local cacher to do an intriguing mystery hide in a local cemetery (which is going to require all sorts of proof that I've obtained permission before it'll ever get published). I agree, its tough to come up with new ideas, and places to put decent caches. I also find myself looking skeptically at new caches, and frankly ignoring a lot of them. I used to do the FTF race, but now the motivation is pretty much gone. You can only find so many light pole hides or mag key holders before the thrill turns monotonous. Now the real challenge for me is seeking out those caches that rate up in the top 10% and are favorites of pretty much all who find them. I have to travel far and wide to get to most of them, but that adds to the fun. My goal is to hide caches that I'd travel far to find. I may not always meet that goal, but at least I'm trying. It's not easy finding or hiding great caches. And too often people take the easy road, and spend 5 minutes to drop a micro in a park, or an ammo can 10 feet off the road in the woods. Selective caching is (believe it or not) pretty hard work! But the rewards I get from reaching that awesome scenic view, cracking that brain wracking puzzle, or exploring that deep, dark hole in the ground are really what make this hobby enjoyable for me. Don't get discouraged, just try to choose the caches that you know will make you happy. For some that's a film can in a parking lot, I guess I'm just not that type of cacher. Sounds like you may not be either.

 

You might want to try teaming up with someone else to do a hide, sometimes 2 heads are better than one, and it's fun going at it as a team. Usually the results are above average, too.

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited January 6, 2006 by DocDiTTo

[+Team Perks]

(except for the magnetic one last week in the rain that took me to an electric utility box  )

 

(On the other hand, you may have noted that the cache was not ON the electrical box, nor did it resemble one! )

Edited January 6, 2006 by Team Perks

[+carleenp]

Surely there are ways to place interesting, creative and fun caches without pushing questions like electrical safety etc? If there is an issue with things it is likely for a reason. Why try to push buttons by forcing that? Instead brainstorm unique stuff that is OK. I continually see fun unique caches. Some are creative containers, some are because of the hike, some the hide is wicked etc. And they all meet the guidelines and/or don't worry other cachers over fuzzy issues like electrical boxes seem to. I know it is both possible and frequently done.

Why are you still talking electrical boxes? That was the other thread. Besides, the point of that thread was that people have different opinions of whether electrical boxe caches actually created any sort of hazard. This thread is about the limitations on placing creative caches. Actually, other than Iowa, electrical box caches are still good to go.

 

Hmmm... maybe I need to do a nice electrical box cache.

No I meant in general. I thought your complaint was that because there are things that might not be OK, you are feeling at a loss. My point was that there are many ways to make things that are creative and fun and OK. I see them all the time. Brainstorm and such. The possibilities are there. No need to make people uncertain. There are plenty of certainly OK things that can be done and be fun.

[tossedsalad]

Part of my complaint is that I don't have a clear idea of what is ok and what is not. When the reviewer refused to consider my 450 foot separation (although it is clear that exceptions can be made) I was even cautioned not to put caches 600 foot apart! So if the guildlines say a cache is ok and the reviewer starts applying arbitrary restrictions beyond the guidelines, how can I have any confidence that any of my ideas will pan out? It is very frustrating to come up with what I think is a good idea only to have it rejected for reasons I can't anticipate.

[+Confucius' Cat]

You've gotten 10 approved and only found a hundred or so. That's an extraordinary find to placement ratio. You are doing VERY well.

 

Keep doing what you did right to get the one's you have approved and simply fix the problems the reviewer brings to your attention on the new ones. You're doing good!

[Keystone]

A caution about 600 feet apart is not an arbitrary restriction at all. It sounds like you got some counseling on part B of the cache saturation guideline. There's two parts to that guideline; the 528 foot guideline is but one of them.

[+Mudfrog]

I have gone more from hunting to placing caches. But I am becoming stymied by the rules preventing caches that seem safe and reasonable, but just don't make it by the reviewer. The guidelines are so subjective that any cache can be considered to be a violation. Check the guidelines and you will find several "catch-all" sections that leave it up to the reviewer to add any additional restrictions.

 

With placing interesting caches becoming harder to do and the hunting becoming more boring, I am starting to lose interest in the sport

 

I do agree that finding great locations is definitely hard to do these days. But as far as placing an interesting cache and/or an interesting container, i dont see the problems you are describing. Yes the rules (guidelines) are very subjective but i think this is a good thing for us. The approvers, at least all that i have had dealings with, are very openminded and im sure like the rest of us, welcome those creative and unusual cache hides. There will be times when questions will be asked by an approver. If it's a good hide then the answers you give will most likely be all thats needed to get your cache going!

[tossedsalad]

A caution about 600 feet apart is not an arbitrary restriction at all.  It sounds like you got some counseling on part B of the cache saturation guideline.  There's two parts to that guideline; the 528 foot guideline is but one of them.

From part A "This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another.", so that clearly indicates that an exception can be made. In this case I explained there is a dual road between the current cache and the planned one. So it would be nearly impossible for any confusion between the two to occur.

 

From part B, "If you want to create a series of caches, the reviewer may require you to create a multi-cache, if the waypoints are close together." It would be silly to try to combine these two caches. Both are multis and are totally different. The existing one is a puzzle cache that requires you to solve a geometry problem and the planned one is a tricky multi because of the steep vertical scale and the long runs at each level.

 

Guidelines exist for a reason, to maximize the quality of the caches. It is serving no purpose to deny this second cache. The fact that another cache exists 450 feet away across a dual road has no effect on either cache. They would be just as good or just as bad with 450 foot separation or 450 mile separation. I took a look at trying to squeeze this new cache in so it met the 528 foot rule, but with a reviewer who appears to be pretty down on this cache, I don't feel inclined to spend the time to try to make it work.

 

The inconsistency also shows here. There was a single micro in one section of Baker park when I explored and found several good places to put new caches. I managed to squeeze three more into this one city block, one of them just barely making the 528 rule. This same reviewer approved the later two of the three. So how can I know what to expect tomorrow from this reviewer?

 

To be honest, a lot of this negativity I am feeling is from when one of the reviewers essentially called me a liar and a cheat. That still does not sit well with me. The new reviewer also seems to be a bit rude in some of her replies although nothing like the earlier one.

[+Pasha]

TS, please don't take this wrong - you and I butted heads a bit in the other thread but on a very civil, reasoned, thoughful level - but it really seems like your disappointment over disapproved hides is fueling a general disappointment with the hobby. There are so many things to like about this activity; among the best things for me are that I can do things the way I want to within some extremely reasonable guidelines. The only requirements are those meant to maximize safety and enjoyment for all.

 

Saying that all the good cache ideas have already been used somewhere is like saying that all the good inventions are already taken, or that 640K should be enough for everyone. It's just not true. I can't say that I've hidden any caches that are unique (in fact, one of mine plays on the fact that so many caches are not unique), but there are people out there hiding in creative and unique ways every day. I'm continually amazed by what people come up with.

 

Anyway... If it's not fun any more, then perhaps it is time to take a break, but I think it would be more fun and interesting to put some arbitrary restrictions on how you go about caching; only search for Terrain => 4, for instance, or only Waymarks, or... whatever. You can do what you want, how you want. Make it fun.

[+welch]

<snip>

Personally, I am tired of trying to solve crypto puzzles, look for micros in the woods and don't get a kick from walking a couple of miles looking for an ammo box.  For every cache I have found that was interesting in the way it was hidden or the type of container or the puzzle you had to solve to find it, there are 10 that are just tossed out by the side of the road or dropped in the middle of the woods.

<snip>

With placing interesting caches becoming harder to do and the hunting becoming more boring, I am starting to lose interest in the sport.

Is the unasked question here, What is geocaching? and why do you do it?

Edited January 6, 2006 by welch

[+Moose Mob]

As a spelunker once told me...

 

"Finding all the nearby caves was cool. After finding all the nearby caves there were no more unless I went someplace else. Then I started showing the caves to other people. It was even more fun."

[+Zzyzx Road]

...of course, I am NOWHERE near the level of finds that the rest of you are...

 

BUT, I have:

 

Found some really cool facts about my hometown heroes via a Historical Tour cache (virtual, but listed as multi),

Driven to a really pretty spot with a micro where the name was almost a giveaway,

Learned some hard-to-function computer skills,

Gotten my cousin's kids started on Geocaching, one of them is saving all of his Christmas money now for his OWN GPS,

Had the same kids (and my own) looking for "Places, treasures and containers to hide", and you wouldn't belive the imagination a group or 10-13 year olds can have!

 

I have intentions of finding/hiding some in the remote-r regions of our foothills,

Adding some to a Botanical Garden area (permission granted, of course) which is really neat if you're into that kind of thing,

Gotten some kind of activity that doesn't revolve around the typical stay-at-home-mom's dreary day of "Foggy-day schedule, dance classes, laundry and dishes",

 

And as I noticed others mentioned several times above, I have a collection of great pictures too. I can't wait to do some caches up in northern Cal when it is time to go up there for the annual hunting trip too. Up around Mt Shasta...GORGEOUS!

 

You make of it what you want.

 

If it has become boring/hard to get caches approved, why not take the great ideas you have, along with the "guidelines" and make a "lesson page" (web) on how to/not to make a successful cache. Newbies like myself would sure like to hear (on one page, not reading through posts - however entertaining, it takes a long time to do it that way) about the pros and cons of cache-making. With guidance from a seasoned cacher, we could learn what is fun and what is boring. Everyone can become an expert, as long as they have the proper instruction. Make an offer to start a group (unless you have already) in your area or volunteer as a reviewer yourself.

 

Branch out. Take what you like out of it an choose a tangent.