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The New Jersey Thread

TucsonThompsen

By TucsonThompsen
in Northeast

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trowel32

+trowel32

Posted
Posted

Congrats to all the "Fear" finishers :(. Sorry I didn't make it today to finish it up with you all. Hopefully I will get to it sometime in the near future, but even if I don't, I still had a fantastic time yesterday. It was a blast tackling this with such a great team. Hope to see everyone's pictures from this trek - we'll have to find a top secret site to post them on ;) Special thanks to TucsonThompsen for organizing this adventure ;)

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FlagMan

+FlagMan

Posted
Posted

A great big, huge THANK YOU to all the locals who made this epic hunt such an awesome experience to us folks from the left coast! You are all the greatest! Special MVG honors to Quoddy for something we needed, and superlative kudos to splicingdan for setting this whole thing up and for an assist along the way. Really neat that we got to meet you, Dan! I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos. Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges. I did solve all the puzzles, though. Another awesone cache. You guys ROCK out here in Jersey! Hope to see some of you in So.Cal. some day!

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Frodo_Underhill

+Frodo_Underhill

Posted
Posted
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos. Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges. I did solve all the puzzles, though. Another awesone cache.

Frodo's Two Cents Worth:

 

Logging Choreographed Chaos without doing any of the field challenges is only doing half of the cache.

 

If you do that cache properly you get to see a lot of spectacular portions of the Wharton Forest. It is a shame that you missed that experience.

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FlagMan

+FlagMan

Posted
Posted
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos.  Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges.  I did solve all the puzzles, though.  Another awesone cache.

Frodo's Two Cents Worth:

 

Logging Choreographed Chaos without doing any of the field challenges is only doing half of the cache.

 

If you do that cache properly you get to see a lot of spectacular portions of the Wharton Forest. It is a shame that you missed that experience.

Couldn't agree more, but what can I do? I envy all you folks in New Jersey that have the opportunity to do all the field challenges. I'd be right there pulling my weight if only I lived close enough. After all, I did fly 3000 miles just to do FEAR. Maybe Frodo will pay my airfare back to New Jersey for a few more weekends in Wharton? :D

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FlagMan

+FlagMan

Posted
Posted
After all, I did fly 3000 miles just to do FEAR.

 

Did you really? I just assumed you were in the area and decided to tag along. Man that's dedication!

Yep. decided Monday 11/14 to just show up unannounced at the posted time and location to surprise Jeff. I tried to pull together a larger group from San Diego, but only Jess could break away on such short notice. Had some 'splainin' to do with Mrs. FlagMan, but all's good now. Couldn't have worked out better. You can read my post to the San Diego Thread and various reactions here. We got on the plane without knowing if the event would really take place (Jeff had not confirmed parking coords yet), and without having any idea if Jeff and Kary would be free the rest of the weekend, etc. But everything worked out as well as it possibly could, with great weather, a great team, total surprise, and ultimate success with FEAR. We grabbed a few other caches near where Jeff and Kary live on Sunday morning while waiting for the team to assemble for the final assault in FEAR, and spent most of the rest of the day on that cache. We had just barely enough time to drive 75-miles down to Wharton so that I could check out the final coords of CHAOS. We then drove back to LaGuardia Monday morning for our flight to San Diego. Pretty crazy, I admit, but absolutely well worth it. Most fun I've had on a weekend in a very long time...

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Frodo_Underhill

+Frodo_Underhill

Posted
Posted (edited)
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos.  Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges.  I did solve all the puzzles, though.  Another awesone cache.

Frodo's Two Cents Worth:

 

Logging Choreographed Chaos without doing any of the field challenges is only doing half of the cache.

 

If you do that cache properly you get to see a lot of spectacular portions of the Wharton Forest. It is a shame that you missed that experience.

Couldn't agree more, but what can I do? I envy all you folks in New Jersey that have the opportunity to do all the field challenges. I'd be right there pulling my weight if only I lived close enough. After all, I did fly 3000 miles just to do FEAR. Maybe Frodo will pay my airfare back to New Jersey for a few more weekends in Wharton? :lol:

What you can do is log a note on Choreographed Chaos rather than a find since you did not complete the field work. And as everyone knows Choreographed Chaos is not a one day event. It takes an investment of time and mental and physical to solve this cache.

 

In lieu of me providing you airfair for you to come back to do the field challenges why not provide us the same level of intellegence that you and Tuscon Thompsen had on Choreographed Chaos for Fear so that we can avoid all the field work and go directly to the final stage. This would level the playing field. However that would be grossly unfair to SplinginDan and all the effort he put in placing Fear.

 

To us its an issue of you having an unfair advantage over the local cachers and then bragging about scoring a 5/5 cache on this and the San Diego thread.

 

Sorry for dumping on you Flagman but you are getting a lot of pent up frustration ever since Tuscon Thompsen logged Choreographed Choas in the same manner. He is in the same boat as far as all of us are concerned.

Edited by Frodo_Underhill
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TucsonThompsen

+TucsonThompsen

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

FYI, just to satisfy myself and sense of guilt, I've actually done the first stage of Chaos, and a couple of parts of level #9. And I intend to do some more of the stages as I get the time and equipment to go to Wharton more in future. There are plenty enough opportunities coming up.

 

--TT--

Edited by TucsonThompsen
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Frodo_Underhill

+Frodo_Underhill

Posted
Posted (edited)

Tuscon Thopmsen Posted on Nov 22 2005, 01:38 PM

  Well Frodo you better take a lot of pent up "frustration" as you call it on the Cow Spots and me as well. Neither he nor I did "the field stages" from afar in Tucson and SD, but is that necessary for all team members to do them? I know He helped with the mental lifting as much as anybody did with one team. Is that not worth just as much as say canoe work or swimming in swamps? Possibly more in some circles. </$0.02>

 

FYI, just to satisfy myself and sense of guilt, I've actually done the first stage of Chaos, and a couple of parts of level #9. And I intend to do some more of the stages as I get the time and equipment to go to Wharton more in future. There are plenty enough opportunities coming up.

 

--TT--

 

 

TT, Cowspots had cleared logging the cache with the owners in advance as an exceptional circumstance since he was working with a local team. However the owners were displeased when you tagged along and logged in. Insult was added to injury when Flagman logged in this weekend. Someone is sharing the stage ID's and the passwords in the background. This is puzzle cache spoiler information being shared without the owners knowlege or permission which down in South Jersey is considered to be a serious breach of caching etiquette.

 

I think there would be no argument now if you and Flagman had logged notes. And I think it is admirable that you are going back to do the field stages as they are the in my opinion a vital part of the cache. And if you really felt guilty about how you found Chaos, it would go a long way to foster good realtions in this part of the state if you and Flagman changed your logs to notes. Otherwise you will force the cache owner to take the role of the cache police - which they don't want to do. (There is long and ugly history of that in the early days of South Jersey caching which none of us want to see getting started again but your logs are putting pressure on the cache owners to do just that.)

 

So we have reasons to taking exceptions to your log of this cache. I know the owners share my opinon as I ran into them caching yesterday and we had a lengthy discussion on the topic.

Edited by Frodo_Underhill
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trowel32

+trowel32

Posted
Posted (edited)

I completed every single field challenge and every online puzzle (of course with help and collaboration with my teammate ekitt10 :D ) for "CHAOS" and had a fantastic time. I personally wouldn't want to have missed out on any of the physical or mental challenges, but I figure what other people want to do is their own business. If the cache owners are upset by folks logging CHAOS without completing the physical challenges, they can always delete their logs :) I do have to wonder how many other people who have logged this cache didn't complete every single physical challenge either :)

 

It's just a game ;)

Edited by trowel32
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denali7

+denali7

Posted
Posted (edited)
I do have to wonder how many other people who have logged this cache didn't complete every single physical challenge either

 

no comment, trowel, no comment. otherwise, congrats, you've certainly earned my respect. i thought thimbles and i would be the first to do it that way.

 

signed,

-someone else who is doing EVERY single puzzle and EVERY single field challenge

 

<begin rant mode>

 

p.s. i'm working my a** off on this cache, so i have no guilt and don't care to hear excuses about anyone else's :)

 

eta:

A.) i'm sure there are a hell of a lot of caches in CA i won't have the opportunity to log...and i won't log them either. cry me a river.

B.) the physical work to do this cache, and drive 60 miles each way EVERY time i do one of the ten challenges, some of which have many stages within and require more trips of their own, is not equal to less than half the effort. sorry.

C.) thank you, frodo. <heart>

 

<end rant mode>

Edited by denali7
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trowel32

+trowel32

Posted
Posted
A.) i'm sure there are a hell of a lot of caches in CA i won't have the opportunity to log...and i won't log them either.  cry me a river.

;) I agree with you Denali, but whatever the other loggers did doesn't take away from the awesome experiences I had completing the cache. Enjoy the rest of your adventure -- I'm a little jealous that its all over for me :)

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Harry Dolphin

+Harry Dolphin

Posted
Posted

I think there would be no argument now if you and Flagman had logged notes. And I think it is admirable that you are going back to do the field stages as they are the in my opinion a vital part of the cache. And if you really felt guilty about how you found Chaos, it would go a long way to foster good realtions in this part of the state if you and Flagman changed your logs to notes. Otherwise you will force the cache owner to take the role of the cache police - which they don't want to do. (There is long and ugly history of that in the early days of South Jersey caching which none of us want to see getting started again but your logs are putting pressure on the cache owners to do just that.)

 

So we have reasons to taking exceptions to your log of this cache. I know the owners share my opinon as I ran into them caching yesterday and we had a lengthy discussion on the topic.

I seem to be missing something here (not that I ever plan on doing the cache in question).

Found cache; signed log. That equals a smiley.

Do I complain if someone finds a mystery cache without solving the puzzle? Nope, they found the cache and signed the log.

I will object if someone tries to log the cache without signing the log.

Find cache. Sign log. Get smiley. :)

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denali7

+denali7

Posted
Posted

you're right, trowel, thank you for the perspective.

i definitely have a sense of accomplishment as i go through this. i've got the end in sight (level 7), and i am very proud of myself. i'm not too bright, and i solved puzzles that gave me a headache when i first laid eyes on them. i learned how to use some of the previously mysterious features of my gps. i'm old and fat, and did some killer work in those woods. these are things i am proud of, only one other person was there to see this, and i like it that way. i do caches like this to challenge myself, not grab numbers. that's one of the great things about this sport, i guess, everyone can take away what they like. :)

-denali

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John&Jess

+John&Jess

Posted
Posted

Ummm....so the weather was beautiful while we were there!! :D :D

 

I had a GREAT time in NJ and NY!

 

I want to thank everyone I met for their welcome and for the fun!!! Nice to meet you splicingdan, Quoddy, karooite, LocaRoja, trowel32, briansnat, ekitt10, Candover, Skigirl, and see TT again!

 

Nothing like flying out Friday and back on Monday for a 5/5 cache called FEAR!! I have to be very careful who I tell about this trip or I may get committed :D:)

 

Thanks to Quoddy for the geo-button, I'm only sad I didn't get to meet the "real" Quoddy...seems like an AWESOME caching buddy and made me miss Becca our geo-dawg.

Thanks to Jeff and Kary for letting us crash at their place, it was so much more fun that way!

Thanks to Dan and karrooite for helping us complete a certain part of FEAR and to Quoddy for the next day's actual completion!

Thanks to anyone else I forgot!

 

I must say I have a real respect for dealing with brambles and cold mud and such now. Makes rattlesnakes look tame in comparison :);)

 

Hope to come back and visit again sometime, you were all great! ;)

 

~Jess :D

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted (edited)
I seem to be missing something here (not that I ever plan on doing the cache in question).

Found cache; signed log. That equals a smiley.

Do I complain if someone finds a mystery cache without solving the puzzle? Nope, they found the cache and signed the log.

I will object if someone tries to log the cache without signing the log.

Find cache. Sign log. Get smiley

 

To a point, sure. Still there are times I would not be comfortable claiming a find. Wheretogo? Vertigo! was one. I was there and I assisted in the effort and signed the logbook, but because I didn't actually retreive the cache, which was the big challenge, I couldn't in good faith claim a find. Actually I did at first because the owner said it was cool, but eventually I relogged it as a note.

Edited by briansnat
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FlagMan

+FlagMan

Posted
Posted (edited)
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos.  Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges.  I did solve all the puzzles, though.  Another awesone cache.

Frodo's Two Cents Worth:

 

Logging Choreographed Chaos without doing any of the field challenges is only doing half of the cache.

 

If you do that cache properly you get to see a lot of spectacular portions of the Wharton Forest. It is a shame that you missed that experience.

Couldn't agree more, but what can I do? I envy all you folks in New Jersey that have the opportunity to do all the field challenges. I'd be right there pulling my weight if only I lived close enough. After all, I did fly 3000 miles just to do FEAR. Maybe Frodo will pay my airfare back to New Jersey for a few more weekends in Wharton? :)

What you can do is log a note on Choreographed Chaos rather than a find since you did not complete the field work. And as everyone knows Choreographed Chaos is not a one day event. It takes an investment of time and mental and physical to solve this cache.

 

In lieu of me providing you airfair for you to come back to do the field challenges why not provide us the same level of intellegence that you and Tuscon Thompsen had on Choreographed Chaos for Fear so that we can avoid all the field work and go directly to the final stage. This would level the playing field. However that would be grossly unfair to SplinginDan and all the effort he put in placing Fear.

 

To us its an issue of you having an unfair advantage over the local cachers and then bragging about scoring a 5/5 cache on this and the San Diego thread.

 

Sorry for dumping on you Flagman but you are getting a lot of pent up frustration ever since Tuscon Thompsen logged Choreographed Choas in the same manner. He is in the same boat as far as all of us are concerned.

OK, you win. Its now a note. Happy now? And you have ruined my day, and maybe even my whole weekend. It's just a game and is supposed to be fun....

Edited by FlagMan
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LocaRoja

+LocaRoja

Posted
Posted

Well, all of this C.Chaos stuff is unfortunate. I don't think playing cache police, particularly of caches not owned by "the police", is going to lead to anything good in this community. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and can asign their "geocaching respect" as they wish, but this forum is not the best place to share such negativism and call each other out. Generally, my experience has been, if you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say it.

 

There are certainly instances where some of my logs have not been as fully earned as others (ie WheretogoVertigo-I walked out to the middle of the scary bridge, but that was the end of my physical contribution). I guess if the policing continues, I will be changing that log to a note as well.

 

On another thought, all of this discussion has me curious about this cache. Anyone out there looking to form a team I could join?

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Evil Chicken

+Evil Chicken

Posted
Posted
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos.

<_<

Kinda sounds like this person was inviting criticism to me.

 

Let alone his cache log where he himself suggests that he may have "taken that liberty a bit too far"...

Teamwork was encouraged, but I may have taken that liberty a bit too far, I don't know. If so, please feel free to delete my log.

To now claim that changing your "find" to a "note" ruined your entire weekend seems a bit hollow.

(Two 5/5 caches logged in one day?) But thanks to CowSpots and TT for filling in the blanks that I would never have been able to get from 3000 miles away....

You did one 5/5 and one 5/0 - which is certainly your business, and you can play the game any way you want - but your own words certainly appear to indicate that you knew your actions might cause a stir. I am mystified that you are now surprised and upset that some have taken offense.

Anyway, I am glad that you enjoyed your brief visit and that the weather was good. Since you like puzzles, you may want to hook up with a local team and take a crack at Blood and Guts in Virginia which is another 5/5 where the challenges are 95% mental and there are only 5 physical stages. I believe the cache owners have granted exceptions so that long distance players can claim the find without going to any physical stages (excluding the end stage to sign the log.)

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted (edited)
To now claim that changing your "find" to a "note" ruined your entire weekend seems a bit hollow.

 

I think he was being facetious.

 

take a crack at Blood and Guts in Virginia which is another 5/5 where the challenges are 95% mental and there are only 5 physical stages. I believe the cache owners have granted exceptions so that long distance players can claim the find without going to any physical stages (excluding the end stage to sign the log.)

 

Actually I think a number of B&G VA "finders" greatly stretched the concept of a find.

Edited by briansnat
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chstress53

+chstress53

Posted
Posted

I can not believe that our sentiments regarding you and TT logging only the end of chaos would ruin your weekend that you described as a great time. As a member of Frodos team who spent wonderful ,awesome times on those physical challenges, I encourage you to come back and find them. The time you spend doing that will show you just how awesome a cache it is. You can not experience this without many weekends in the woods doing what makes this cache so awesome. I quote from the cache page "The username and password to enter Level ... of Choreographed Chaos can be found at the posted coordinates .... Individuals (or teams) must solve the field challenges to uncover the needed username and password to access the Level... areas of Choreographed Chaos" Someone had to supply those usernames and passwords for you to achieve the end cache, that is what is wrong with your original found log and TT's on the cache page. By the way I too was a team member to solve Blood & Guts, & I suggest you give that a try.

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avroair

avroair

Posted
Posted
I hope you all won't hate me for also logging Choreographed Chaos.  Don't really see how I would ever get the chance to do all the field challenges.  I did solve all the puzzles, though.  Another awesone cache.

Frodo's Two Cents Worth:

 

Logging Choreographed Chaos without doing any of the field challenges is only doing half of the cache.

 

If you do that cache properly you get to see a lot of spectacular portions of the Wharton Forest. It is a shame that you missed that experience.

Couldn't agree more, but what can I do? I envy all you folks in New Jersey that have the opportunity to do all the field challenges. I'd be right there pulling my weight if only I lived close enough. After all, I did fly 3000 miles just to do FEAR. Maybe Frodo will pay my airfare back to New Jersey for a few more weekends in Wharton? :anibad:

What you can do is log a note on Choreographed Chaos rather than a find since you did not complete the field work. And as everyone knows Choreographed Chaos is not a one day event. It takes an investment of time and mental and physical to solve this cache.

 

In lieu of me providing you airfair for you to come back to do the field challenges why not provide us the same level of intellegence that you and Tuscon Thompsen had on Choreographed Chaos for Fear so that we can avoid all the field work and go directly to the final stage. This would level the playing field. However that would be grossly unfair to SplinginDan and all the effort he put in placing Fear.

 

To us its an issue of you having an unfair advantage over the local cachers and then bragging about scoring a 5/5 cache on this and the San Diego thread.

 

Sorry for dumping on you Flagman but you are getting a lot of pent up frustration ever since Tuscon Thompsen logged Choreographed Choas in the same manner. He is in the same boat as far as all of us are concerned.

I wish i had chimed in earlier. Last time i check Chaos was DirtyBird and Big Nasty Brain's cache.... Ahem... NOT Frodo Underhill's <_< ... therefore if they have no problem with Flagman logging the cache as part of a team why not log it.... I logged Blood and Guts in a similar fashion as part of a team that worked together on the cache.

 

Sheesh... <_<

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Evil Chicken

+Evil Chicken

Posted
Posted
...therefore if they have no problem with Flagman logging the cache as part of a team why not log it....  I logged Blood and Guts in a similar fashion as part of a team that worked together on the cache.

 

Sheesh...  <_<

That's the fly in the ointment, Avro...TT and FM were never part of any team that attempted to solve the cache. They received the puzzles independently from the Cowspots (who were on a team that completed the cache) just for fun (I guess). I have no idea if they even bothered using the interactive CC website (nor do I care).

 

As stated on the cache page, "To pacify the natives" the finds were changed to notes. Nicely put, Flag Man - more derision and condescension to fan the flames. <_<

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chstress53

+chstress53

Posted
Posted (edited)

Lets let this die please! DB & BNB did request them to delete their finds as they were not on teams and tonight they did; as you can see on the cache page. End of story. When they come back and do the cache the way it was meant us NATIVES will all celebrate their finds.

Edited by chstress53
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rolenrock

+rolenrock

Posted
Posted
I wish i had chimed in earlier. Last time i check Chaos was DirtyBird and Big Nasty Brain's cache.... Ahem... NOT Frodo Underhill's  ... therefore if they have no problem with Flagman logging the cache as part of a team why not log it.... I logged Blood and Guts in a similar fashion as part of a team that worked together on the cache.

 

Sheesh... 

 

Well... just to add to the fire. I want to let you guys know that the team that cow spots were on had no idea of TT and Flagman logging the cache. Cow spots was the only one who really did the challenges (xcept the field cahllenges) so i really think it is wrong of Flagman to log it without doing it. It really isnt a find. Do you count a find of a multi if you jsut find the last stage??? Not ethical. And in regards to BNB and DB responding on here. They are busy with Chaos 2 and havent even posted on the sj forum. So i doubt they would post up on here.

Everyone jsut has to get along.. Lets hold hands.. please!

-rolenrock

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Frodo_Underhill

+Frodo_Underhill

Posted
Posted
Last time i check Chaos was DirtyBird and Big Nasty Brain's cache.... Ahem... NOT Frodo Underhill's :o ...

Correct - Chaos is not my cache. However a similar foul occured on one of my caches and since there was a developing pattern of repeated fouls I felt compelled to speak out.

 

I would suggest we all let this issue rest. There are enough hard feelings to go around on both sides of this issue.

 

When the dust settles I would suggest we all think about local cache etiquette customs and global cache ethics as they apply to puzzle caches.

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FlagMan

+FlagMan

Posted
Posted
bbaa252f-e037-4690-bc6e-6cbfa468b656.jpg

 

OLIVE BRANCH

ACCEPTED AND EXTENDED BACK.

No more takers? I think the Olive Branch should be passed around like a peace pipe. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Things that I am thankful for (after the REALLY significant things like God, Country, Family, etc.): splicingdan and DB and BNB for spending many hundreds of hours setting up FEAR and CHAOS thus providing excellent mental and physical challenges for all who choose to partake; TT for setting up this thread and for organizing the assault on FEAR, for without both I never would have had the crazy idea of coming out to NJ in the first place; LocaRoja for being an incredible hostess and taking us in without any notice and spending the whole weekend with us; and for the entire team who joined in on the assault on FEAR -- you guys all ROCK! Sorry to have upset some others of you out there. CACHE ON!

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted
bbaa252f-e037-4690-bc6e-6cbfa468b656.jpg

 

OLIVE BRANCH

ACCEPTED AND EXTENDED BACK.

No more takers? I think the Olive Branch should be passed around like a peace pipe. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Things that I am thankful for (after the REALLY significant things like God, Country, Family, etc.): splicingdan and DB and BNB for spending many hundreds of hours setting up FEAR and CHAOS thus providing excellent mental and physical challenges for all who choose to partake; TT for setting up this thread and for organizing the assault on FEAR, for without both I never would have had the crazy idea of coming out to NJ in the first place; LocaRoja for being an incredible hostess and taking us in without any notice and spending the whole weekend with us; and for the entire team who joined in on the assault on FEAR -- you guys all ROCK! Sorry to have upset some others of you out there. CACHE ON!

I'll take it, though I had no clams in this race.

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Packanack

+Packanack

Posted
Posted

Cache Longevity Question for NJ Cachers--I placed a series of small urban caches, Placements took place just over 1 month ago. 3 out of 5 are now temporarily disabled, awaiting a determination as to if they should be archived. I am wondering if they were just bad hides, which I don't think so or if others who place urban caches experience this type of problem. The series was named Silk City, I would appreciate hearing views on this. On my way to work this AM I stopped and picked one of them up, it was clear to me that someone had purposefully tampered with the cache, they left the small container, but took the top, which is of no use without the container . And the hide I thought was good.

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