Hungry?

[GlobeGeorge]

As you know, one should not leave food or drink (except for water) in a cache. However, there is a clever workaround that provides the same tasty results. Leave a COUPON for a free candy bar (or, if you're feeling really generous, a gift card to a candy store) in the cache! Since animals can't smell that (nor can they read) they are a 100% safe alternative to leaving actual food!

Edited May 15, 2005 by GlobeGeorge

[+CYBret]

One of our local cachers owns a couple pizza places. His signature item is a coupon for a free pizza. It's always fun to read his logs. "Took a quarter, left a piping hot pizza..it was hard to squish into the micro container, but somehow I managed." It usually goes something like that.

 

Another local owns a Dairy Queen and leaves DQ coins.

 

Anyone know if the guy who owns Klondike Bars is a cacher?

 

Bret

[+Team Mysticangel]

I would use the klondike bar coupons if they existed.

[+IV_Warrior]

As you know, one should not leave food or drink (except for water) in a cache. However, there is a clever workaround that provides the same tasty results. Leave a COUPON for a free candy bar (or, if you're feeling really generous, a gift card to a candy store) in the cache! Since animals can't smell that (nor can they read) they are a 100% safe alternative to leaving actual food!

You almost had it right. One should never leave food or drink in a cache.

 

If you'd have ended there, you'd have been right. You had to go mess it up by adding "except for water". If you had to mention water, it should have been "One should never leave food or drink (INCLUDING water) in a cache.

[CoyoteRed]

Of course, not everyone agrees with the "no water" part and will leave water anyway.

[+IV_Warrior]

Of course, not everyone agrees with the "no water" part and will leave water anyway.

Yes, I realize not everyone has enough respect for the fact that the cacher went to the trouble of getting a waterproof container, and will put water in it anyway. Possibly part of the reason some people just give up and use whatever crappy container they can find. Why spend money on something decent if some knucklehead is just gonna jepordize that anyway.

[+sbell111]

How does a bottle of water endanger the cache again?

[+cottonmouth]

How does a bottle of water endanger the cache again?

The bottle may fail to act gracefully to a freeze and thaw cycle. Some bottles pop the cap when they get hot enough. In either case the water is then directly contained by the cache.

A careless cacher who thinks that one more item can be squeezed in could break a PET bottle. There must be plenty ways to empty the bottle into the cache which is not a good thing.

[+southdeltan]

Bottles of water can burst after repeated freezing/thawing.

 

sd

[+sbell111]

Not really a problem 'round these parts.

[+Pasha]

In addition, and no disrespect to anyone, but I'm not putting anything I find in a cache into my mouth.

[+sbell111]

The bottle may fail to act gracefully to a freeze and thaw cycle. Some bottles pop the cap when they get hot enough. In either case the water is then directly contained by the cache.

A careless cacher who thinks that one more item can be squeezed in could break a PET bottle. There must be plenty ways to empty the bottle into the cache which is not a good thing.

I get your argument, I really do.

 

However, its not really a 'food' issue. The food guideline exists to keep fauna from chewing on caches.

 

Your argument is more against all liquids. It is an issue that I believe is worried about a little too much.

 

I don't think that we're going to have to worry about freeze cycles around here for another eight months or so. You will note, also, that unlike soda bottles, water bottles are made to allow for expansion if frozen.

 

I think your heat theory is unlikely at best. I'm willing to bet that the back of my jeep gets hotter in the summer than a cache, yet I always have a case of water in the back and none have gone <pop>. Well, that's not exactly true. I had half a case turn into a sprinkler last June, but that was caused by extreme deceleration.

 

Which brings us to your theory that if one crams one too many mctoys into the box, the water will go pop. While, certainly this will happen at some point if things keep getting put in, its not likely. Its much more likely that the bottle of bubbles or snow globe will give up the ghost.

[+Team Cotati]

In addition, and no disrespect to anyone, but I'm not putting anything I find in a cache into my mouth.

I'm with you 100% on that one. Cache on Dude!!

[+Milbank]

One of our local cachers owns a couple pizza places. His signature item is a coupon for a free pizza.

 

Cool

[+sTeamTraen]

Also be aware that bottled water is not sterile. After a few months, it will start to have measurable quantities of bacteria. This is also a reason why people who think bottled watre ("mineral" or not) is "better" then what comes out of the faucet, are usually wrong: you don't know how long that bottle of Evian or Dasani has been sitting around in a depot, subjected to changing temperatures, etc.

[CoyoteRed]

Of course, not everyone agrees with the "no water" part and will leave water anyway. 

Yes, I realize not everyone has enough respect for the fact that the cacher went to the trouble of getting a waterproof container, and will put water in it anyway. Possibly part of the reason some people just give up and use whatever crappy container they can find. Why spend money on something decent if some knucklehead is just gonna jepordize that anyway.

Actually, I don't recall that we've ever left water in someone else's cache. We have left water in our own caches, though.

 

Additionally, we both appear to have the constitutions to survive the several times we've injested items found in a cache. I've even eaten a chocolate covered cricket left by a park asst. director who happened to be an entomologist.

 

The trick is to use your head. If you would never eat something someone put in a cache, then you probably wouldn't eat in a fast food restaurant or some mom-n-pop joint. Nor would you eat halloween candy.

 

I'm not saying putting food in a cache is a good idea, just use your head a bit. Besides, like as already been said, not all caches are subject to freeze and thaw cycles.

 

Anyway, the OP had a very good suggestion. We've seen in before and works well.

[+StarBrand]

I've put bottled water in several of my own caches that are at the end of a hike. They have all survived winter and summer but also have a bonus ziploc for protection but they have all survived fine without need for the ziploc. And while not sterile most bottled water is good for 2 - 4 years (see the labels expiration dates). No problem drinking sealed water that has been around for a few months or even a year or 2. Many have drank my water and survived. Maybe not the best for all areas but around here they have been appreciated.

 

edit - I love the coupon idea!!

Edited May 16, 2005 by StarBrand

[+Pasha]

The trick is to use your head.  If you would never eat something someone put in a cache, then you probably wouldn't eat in a fast food restaurant or some mom-n-pop joint.  Nor would you eat halloween candy.

Oh, you're right. There's no difference between edibles purchased in a store or restaurant and edibles left by persons unknown in some tupperware in the woods. What was I thinking?

[MagicMeeko]

What would you do for a Klondike bar?

 

Geocache?

 

Oh. it has to be something I don't do already... darn.

[CoyoteRed]

The trick is to use your head.  If you would never eat something someone put in a cache, then you probably wouldn't eat in a fast food restaurant or some mom-n-pop joint.  Nor would you eat halloween candy.

Oh, you're right. There's no difference between edibles purchased in a store or restaurant and edibles left by persons unknown in some tupperware in the woods. What was I thinking?

It's a wonder humans have survived this long without a sterile environment.

[Mushtang]

I don't think "sterile" is the issue. It seems more to be "safety".

 

Food (and that includes chocolate) left in a cache is subjected to unknown temperature swings that can turn healthy food into dangerous food. Bacteria that exists in small and harmless amounts can quickly multiply and make food (including chocolate) dangerous to eat. And the longer it stays in the cache the higher the chance the food has to turn bad.

 

I won't eat anything I find in a cache.

 

There are other rules about what not to leave in a cache (knives, porn, etc.) that seem to be followed a lot more than the food issue.

 

I wonder what it is that makes people think, "I know it's a rule not to, but that's for everyone else. It's okay if I do it."?

[+BillsBayou]

Can we start gardens next to caches? Would that count? Plant some vegetables, or maybe a fruit tree, or a pecan tree nearby...

[+AtoZ]

It isn't a matter of sterile, WATER DOES NOT SPONTANIOULSY SPROUT BACTERIA. It is a matter of I don't think I would trust every geocacher. Most oare real nice folks and maybe the people that would do something are the same that would put razor blades in halloween apples but, I just don't trust folks.

No to put it another way I grew up climbing and backcountry skiing in Colorado and if you met someone on the trail and someone broke out a water bottle then everyone took swig without a second thought. But now we live in a differant world. I have had and seen caches trashed/destroyed but who muggles NO but some one that was geocaching. So do I trust you sorry NO. If I get to know you then yes but intinally sorry again no. There are to many weird people in the world. I wouldn't expect you to trust me either so it isn't personal. Just like someday someone may open an ammo can and it will explode, I hope not but it is possible.

cheers

[+BillsBayou]

... Just like someday someone may open an ammo can and it will explode, ...

Is this something that has been openly discussed here? If not, should we even mention it for fear of giving the wierdos ideas?

 

gee... I dunno...

 

If you edit this out of your post, I'll edit it out of mine...

[CoyoteRed]

I don't think "sterile" is the issue. It seems more to be "safety".

 

Food (and that includes chocolate) left in a cache is subjected to unknown temperature swings that can turn healthy food into dangerous food.

That's what using your brain is for.

 

Look, I'm not talking about walking around and picking up chewed gum to eat. I'm talking about ingestibles left by someone you know and trust. I'd feel a lot more comfortable eating a Powerbar left by someone I know and trust than a burger by some 16 year old who looks like he's having a really bad day.

 

Further more, I use the same brain cells to determine if food in my own refrigerator is fit for consumption. It in doubt, down the disposal it goes. Same as food or water left in a cache.

 

BTW, along with food, there is a whole host of things we don't leave in a cache. We are mindful of the cache. Our philosophy is always protection of the cache.

[+BillsBayou]

Our philosophy is always protection of the cache.

I thought we protected the cachER.

[CoyoteRed]

Our philosophy is always protection of the cache.

I thought we protected the cachER.

[+sept1c_tank]

...I'd feel a lot more comfortable eating a Powerbar left by someone I know and trust than a burger by some 16 year old who looks like he's having a really bad day.

From one who has worked around a variety of commercial kitchens: That's a fact, Jack (even if he's having a good day)!

[Mushtang]

BTW, along with food, there is a whole host of things we don't leave in a cache.  We are mindful of the cache.  Our philosophy is always protection of the cache.

Well, if eating food left in a cache doesn't sound like a bad idea to you, then please do the other cachers a favor and go ahead and eat it. That way it won't be there to cause problems after you leave. Remember, stupidity is a self curing disease.

 

But please don't put food in caches thinking you're doing the next guy a favor. Wild animals have been known to tear cache containers apart and destroy them in order to get to food left inside. They can even smell chocolate covered bugs, so please don't do it. Try to protect the cache.

Edited May 17, 2005 by Mushtang

[CoyoteRed]

...then please do the other cachers a facor and go ahead and eat it.

Sorry, I'll make the decision to eat something on a case by case basis, thank you.

 

However, up to this point we've always removed food items, along with other cache damaging items, as we've come across them. These include many more things than just food. Additionally, as I've already said, we don't put water or food items in other folks' caches, but I've already said that. Did I mention I've already said that?

 

My original point was water is not a universal no-no. I guess the same could be said of food, too, but that wasn't the issue.

[Mushtang]

My original point was water is not a universal no-no.  I guess the same could be said of food, too, but that wasn't the issue.

No, you're wrong. Food IS a universal no-no. It's in the FAQ. Here's a direct quote from the FAQ:

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

It's clearly not good to leave actual food in a cache. Check the rest of the FAQ to see what else you might have missed.

 

Did I mention it's in the FAQ?

Edited May 16, 2005 by Mushtang

[+TeamZebra]

My original point was water is not a universal no-no.  I guess the same could be said of food, too, but that wasn't the issue.

No, you're wrong. Food IS a universal no-no. It's in the FAQ. Here's a direct quote from the FAQ:

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

It's clearly not good to leave actual food in a cache. Check the rest of the FAQ to see what else you might have missed.

 

Did I mention it's in the FAQ?

OK, I know I'm going to catch flak for this, but since everyone has to be so dern literal in this discussion.. here goes.

 

Actually that was a suggestion not to food in caches. The FAQ (yes, I've read it numerous times thank-you-very-much) says "Please do not put food in a cache." It doesn't shake it's finger at you and say "Under no circumstances are you to EVER leave food in a cache!"

[CoyoteRed]

My original point was water is not a universal no-no.  I guess the same could be said of food, too, but that wasn't the issue.

No, you're wrong. Food IS a universal no-no. It's in the FAQ. Here's a direct quote from the FAQ:

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

 

It's clearly not good to leave actual food in a cache. Check the rest of the FAQ to see what else you might have missed.

 

Did I mention it's in the FAQ?

Yep, and you can't bury a cache and won't get one approved on NPS land, too.

 

Uh huh.

 

Look if I want to create a cache and put a brick of lifeboat rations and a couple of liters of water in it, I can. That doesn't mean I'm going to go around putting Reeses cups in caches.

 

Just because you can't conceive of a situation where you could effectively and safely leave food items doesn't mean no one else can.

 

But, of course, if you want to play in a lowest common denominator world, have at it.

[+hoovman]

Regarding the "free pizza at my restaurant" sig item: I'm a little surprised no one has quoted this guideline:

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Seems to me that a case could be made that the pizza sig item is a way of getting new customers. I have mixed feelings about this specific case.

 

Is it acceptable for, say, a car salesman to leave a business card in a cache?

Edited May 16, 2005 by hoovman

[+hoovman]

(added email notification)

[+sbell111]

Seems to me that a case could be made that the pizza sig item is a way of getting new customers. I have mixed feelings about this specific case.

 

Is it acceptable for, say, a car salesman to leave a business card in a cache?

The guideline which you quoted relates to caches, not trade items.

 

It is one thing for a cache to be completely stocked with $1 off pizza coupons. It is quite another for a cacher to leave a 'free pizza' coupon.

 

I'll admit that the line is fuzzy, but it is there.

[CoyoteRed]

Regarding the "free pizza at my restaurant" sig item: I'm a little surprised no one has quoted this guideline:

I'm not sure that this applies on a couple of levels.

 

One, it is not on a person's nearest list if they don't want to deal with that company. (Of course, now there is the ignore feature.) Another, is, I'm thinking, is you don't have to buy anything in order to use the coupon.

 

I don't have a problem with it.

[Mushtang]

Just because you can't conceive of a situation where you could effectively and safely leave food items doesn't mean no one else can.

 

But, of course, if you want to play in a lowest common denominator world, have at it.

That's such a weak argument.

 

I realize from previous exchanges with you that you like to play the game your own way with your own rules, and you don't care what the site says about it. You can claim that it's okay to put food in caches when you think it's a good idea. Someone is going to agree with you, that the guidelines apply to everyone else except themselves, and put food in caches too. This will certainly result in a few caches getting destroyed by wildlife, but CR doesn't seem to care.

 

So is the lowest common denominator also what keeps me from burying caches in NPS areas, or putting phosphorus paint on a gravestone in SC? Maybe I should say to myself, "Well, it's okay to do it here because it's not going to cause any problems that I can foresee. Surely the guidelines don't apply in this situation." I think I'll go bury a cache in a Charleston cemetery.

 

Seriously, there should be some sort of code or creed about doing what's best for the cache and the game. Oh wait, there is.

[CoyoteRed]

It's quite obvious someone has a reading comprehension problem.

[+TeamZebra]

Regarding the "free pizza at my restaurant" sig item: I'm a little surprised no one has quoted this guideline:

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Seems to me that a case could be made that the pizza sig item is a way of getting new customers. I have mixed feelings about this specific case.

 

Is it acceptable for, say, a car salesman to leave a business card in a cache?

Well, if we stop businessmen from putting their business cards in there, then we also need to crack down on other "logo" items in caches... don't we?? For example, there is a cache in Utah that contains various logo items from cacher's past employers. There's a keychain theme cache in Tennessee that has many business keychains in it. I've seen logo items advertising medicine (including stuff like Paxil and Viagra), car dealerships, software companies, etc. Would this not be considered advertising as well. Heck, while we're at it.. aren't all those McToys indirect advertisements for McDonald's??

 

All rules and guidelines have flaws. Lawyers make livings finding loopholes in laws and contracts. The FAQ is a loose set of guidelines... or suggestions on how we as cachers should behave. It's not an enforced set of rules.

 

Believe it or not, most people are capable of having AND using common sense. Whether they choose to make use of that ability is up to them, but I believe the powers that be at GC.com are expecting us to be able to use ours. C'mon people, we figured out how to use a goverment sattelite system for our own entertainment... surely we can use common sense to decide what we should and shouldn't leave in a cache. If it's that confusing to you... I suggest you find another hobby.

 

*Steps behind Firewall to dodge the flaming I am about to receive.*

[Mushtang]

It's quite obvious someone has a reading comprehension problem.

Oooh, good one.

 

When facts get in the way, I guess an insult is all that's left of your argument.

[CoyoteRed]

It's quite obvious someone has a reading comprehension problem.

Oooh, good one.

 

When facts get in the way, I guess an insult is all that's left of your argument.

No insult intended, only an observation.

 

It's either that or you're intentionally being an ***. So, which is it?

 

Never mind. I don't need to know.

 

Let's leave it with this; you're right. There can only be cut and dry rules. No ability to deviate from said rule no matter what. Do not think. Do not innovate. Do nothing but follow the rules. I humbly apologize for thinking for myself. There, now everyone should be happy.

[+Miragee]

A Power Bar was left in an ammo can cache in a ziplock bag with explicit instructions that it was for anyone who had ridden their bike to the cache location.

 

This was a tough, steep climb, and the area is not frequented by bears or other critters likely to disturb a tightly sealed ammo can.

 

I left the Power Bar since I drove and then walked to the cache location. Anyone who did ride a bike to that cache probably would have appreciated the nutrition.

[+trippy1976]

One of our local cachers owns a couple pizza places. His signature item is a coupon for a free pizza. It's always fun to read his logs. "Took a quarter, left a piping hot pizza..it was hard to squish into the micro container, but somehow I managed." It usually goes something like that.

 

Another local owns a Dairy Queen and leaves DQ coins.

 

Anyone know if the guy who owns Klondike Bars is a cacher?

 

Bret

Illinois - lots of caching and free food I love it already.

[+sbell111]

...Let's leave it with this; you're right. There can only be cut and dry rules. No ability to deviate from said rule no matter what. ...

My problem with this thread it not the fact that some are holding strictly to the guidelines, but that the guidelines are being twisted to their own purpose.

 

This is the Guideline:

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because food items (or items that smell like food) are in the cache.

 

Where in this guideline is water referenced? Will the smell of water cause the box to be chewed by wildlife?

 

The guideline was written to protect the cache, not the cacher. The guideline has nothing to do with whether it is appropriate to eat something that has been left in a cache. Each of us can make our own decision about that. It was written to keep the beasties from destroying the boxes. That's all.

[+trippy1976]

Anyone who did ride a bike to that cache probably would have appreciated the nutrition.

It was probably still not a great idea. I took cookies to camp once and put them in zip loc bags, inside cool whip jars inside another tupperware bin.

 

Went to dig into the cookies a couple days after getting to camp and wha? The enterprising squirrels had eaten through it all AND eaten all the cookies. And it was a lot of cookies.

 

Anyway... animals can smell stuff through almost anything. Leaving food is probably a bad idea in general. If it's your cache I suppose it's your cache, but if you leave food in someone else's cache it greatly increases the odds that something nasty is about to happen to the cache.

 

It'd be (to me) like finding a cache and not hiding it again.

 

Coupons are harmless. Water is mostly harmless except in the Winter when it'll possibly bust (just like bubbles... seems like a good idea in the winter, I found three bottles exploded in caches this winter).

 

With all the bazillion other things in the world you could put in a cache, any kind of food is a poor choice IMHO. Why risk getting someone else's cache eaten by critters?

[uber_bike_geek]

The thing about the powerbar in the ammobox was that it was well-sealed (both factory-sealed and ziplock sealed, on top of the ammobox), and it was in a metal ammobox, not just plastic tupperware. If there are squirrels that can chew through metal ammoboxes, we're all toast!

 

I'm not necessarily supporting food in caches, I'm just pointing out that if food does end up in a cache, it's better off in an ammobox than tupperware...

 

Happy Caching

Jeff

[Mushtang]

The thing about the powerbar in the ammobox was that it was well-sealed (both factory-sealed and ziplock sealed, on top of the ammobox), and it was in a metal ammobox, not just plastic tupperware. If there are squirrels that can chew through metal ammoboxes, we're all toast!

 

I'm not necessarily supporting food in caches, I'm just pointing out that if food does end up in a cache, it's better off in an ammobox than tupperware...

 

Happy Caching

Jeff

I saw a show about bears in Yellowstone park near camp sites that would seriously damage peoples cars.

 

Chili (or some other meat) was in a factory sealed can, inside a cooler, inside a closed car with the windows up. The bears still knew it was there and opened the top of the car to get it.

 

Ziplock bags and ammo cans are pretty much useless for hiding smells from wild animals.

[+Ice_man]

Here I am thinking that what he meant is when the cache gets natural water, not the bottled kind.

[+mountainborn]

So, after all that,

>

has any one ever placed a millitary MRE in a ammo can to see if it is wildlife muggled ?

>

They ( MRE's )are extremely well sealed because one of the reasons is that they can be cached at a operational rendezvous point.

>

So what about it anybody ever had a cache opened by wildlife so they can get to the MRE ?