Cache Log

2.1k · October 9, 2004

I recently placed a cache - a 4 stage multi with a little work and thinking to get through the first 3 stages. The first stage was finding a projection.

There was some confusion with some early seekers and the 15.5* of magnetic declination, but the spot was easily found anyway.

So one of the finders left a rather negative and some what revealing log which I encrypted. So I wrote to him and requested that he please remove a short phrase from the log. The following quote was his response:

Log Date: 10/7/2004

Well I found it. After being asked to remove a reference to how lame the cache is however. I decided it wasn't worth it. I don't appreciate your caches or your worthless effort to make them more complicated. I hope that you can continue to enjoy your game for at least as long as I did before you started playing in this game/hobby.

My first reaction was "HUH!?" and had to read it again - then I was angry - then hurt. "What an *ss" I think to myself. And then I just laugh at him - what a mean spirited person. This is obviously not fun for him. With some 1300+ caches I guess it is no longer a game to him. I wish him luck, I guess I don't have to worry about him finding any more of my caches - but I sure don't think I deserved all that.

Anyway - any comments?

October 9, 2004

That was rude.

This is a game. Plain and simple. We do this because it's fun. We can choose not to participate anytime we want. (Right? Right???)

A 4 stage multi with complex projections and thinking involved -- if I thought your cache was lame, I would never even have started it.

My instinct would be to delete his rude log, but it might be nicer to "turn the other cheek" as it were and show how much better a sportsman you are by leaving it and moving on.

October 9, 2004

I would not give it a second thought. There are always a-holes out there and you'll never satisfy everyone. The 1% that have to bitch about everything in life aren't worth the effort. Send him a thank you note and then go find one of his caches and fire bomb it!...... j/k

October 9, 2004

Wow, his response was off the wall and uncalled for. It's hard to figure what makes some people tick. Don't let it bother you...the problem is in his court not yours.

October 9, 2004

I have met the person you are talking about and he is a very nice person. You shouldn't be airing "dirty laundry" here.

You have found only 75 and have hidden 25. I like that you are enthusiastic about the hobby, but maybe you should find more before placing more. I have heard comments about many of your caches from many people and have had problems finding three of yours, two of them due to being placed in very very dense foliage (trees). Maybe a little more experience in the various caches out there would help you reduce the amount of criticism I know you are getting.

October 9, 2004

I have met the person you are talking about and he is a very nice person. You shouldn't be airing "dirty laundry" here.

You have found only 75 and have hidden 25. I like that you are enthusiastic about the hobby, but maybe you should find more before placing more. I have heard comments about many of your caches from many people and have had problems finding three of yours, two of them due to being placed in very very dense foliage (trees). Maybe a little more experience in the various caches out there would help you reduce the amount of criticism I know you are getting.

I don't know anyone involved in any of this, but I disagree with some of what you've said. I'd argue that finding 75 caches gives one plenty of experience to hide caches. Now, whether or not 25 caches is too many to maintain, I guess that's a different conversation.

Mainly, however, it seems to be peculiar to complain about finding a cache because it was in too dense undergrowth... especially trees. Maybe the complaint here should be about upping the difficulty?

At any rate, there seems to be more here than meets the eye.

Edited October 9, 2004 by Pantalaimon

22k · October 9, 2004

nevermind.

Edited October 9, 2004 by Elf Danach

October 9, 2004

i too received a semi-flame log on one of my caches; i e-mailed poster saying sorry you didn't like, others did and description should've alerted you to the type of cache it was...also posted a note to cache page saying while this guy didn't like it, lots of others did

October 9, 2004

As it has been said, there is no way that you can please everyone everytime. There will always be some less fortunate people who are angry or hurt or who knows what and take it out on the most available person. I do not care if he had a lot of finds, that was truely uncalled for. I am always amazed by people and what they expect...you do not get paid to place caches, you do it because you like to and you want to. If I go after a cache that is not the greatest, I will just right a short log ( I'm one of those cachers that tend to right a long log on caches). If I find a problem with the cache, I will email the owner. To me, I am grateful for caches that are being placed. A big round of applause to all who place caches. THIS IS JUST A GAME folks!

Maybe this cacher was a page clearer and putted off doing your cache till it finally drove him batty and he just had to do it. Maybe it frustrated him to know end? Who knows. Bottom line you handled it right, just move on and don't let it worry you. As far as having that many caches to maintain, I have hidden 67 caches and maintain all of them without a problem. Good quality caches actually do not need that much maintance other than the occasionally new logbook and swag upkeep! Good luck and keep up the sport!

Darkmoon

Where evil is good!

38.2k · October 9, 2004

A log denigrating someone's cache is incredibly rude. So it doesn't meet your personal high standards, then say "thanks" and leave it at that. There is no need to bash and try to embarrass someone. If there are serious issues with the cache there is no need to "air the dirty laundry" in the logs. A private e-mail to the owner should suffice. That is of course, unless you take some sadistic pleasure out of disparaging others.

I think this person's profile says it all "Anti-social geocacher". He's certainly trying his best to live up to that.

..have had problems finding three of yours, two of them due to being placed in very very dense foliage (trees)

Oops, I didn't know that was a bad thing. Guess I'll have to pull most of my caches because they are usually hidden in dense tree cover. But again, the locals here never seem to have a problem finding them. Now what do I do?

3.8k · October 9, 2004

C'est la vie.

2.1k · October 9, 2004

I have met the person you are talking about and he is a very nice person. You shouldn't be airing "dirty laundry" here.

You have found only 75 and have hidden 25. I like that you are enthusiastic about the hobby, but maybe you should find more before placing more. I have heard comments about many of your caches from many people and have had problems finding three of yours, two of them due to being placed in very very dense foliage (trees). Maybe a little more experience in the various caches out there would help you reduce the amount of criticism I know you are getting.

Interesting that you consider it dirty laundry -

I mentioned no names - you had to go digging into my profile and digging through my caches to find the quote and associate it with a person. Of course anyone could do that - why make it a personal issue?

I thought what he had to say uncalled for - no one forced him to do the cache. The purpose of the cache was to take you through seveal areas of the park - some that were new to me. It accomplishes that purpose. It is an accurately placed cache. There was an issue with true/magnetic north that some people had a problem with. Not realizing that issue, and after consulting an exert (a physicist who wrote a nice utility for positions and bearings) I subsequently posted a note that the bearing was in magnetic north.

The issue at hand was that he posted a note that not only denegrated me, but the cache itself - I only asked him to remove the phrase relating it to closeness to a street. The cache is not supposed to be a park and grab. If you want park and grabs then don't do caches that are plainly described as mulit semi-puzzle caches. The quote above was his response to my request to remove his reference to the street closeness. This is a copy of my request.

-- Copy of email sent to xxx--
please edit your log for finding "cache name here" to remove the part about next to a street.

thank you -

in the interest of giving the COMPLETE story as is often called for here -

this is the original log posting that was subsequently removed by the finder along with his smiley.

Log Date: 10/7/2004

Having met xxx earlier at another cache, we decided to do this one today as well. As far as projections and what not work out, I have no idea. I do understand that some one needs to bring me to the same place, over and over and over so that I can follow their instructions and hope they go it right this time. Unfortunately I have decided that as far as travel agents go, Your fired.

For future finders, you might consider leaving little ones behind. My four year old can and has hiked miles up and down hills. He didn't care for having to walk through the tall grass though, especialy as the cache can be accessed from a street much easier.

Ah..., huh? You are in the woods, and you have trouble finding caches that are hidden in trees? Did you expect to find them lying in the open? Most of my caches are relatively close to the main trail. Those that are not are marked as such. Hmmm.... cache types - found 75, nearly 1/3 of which are micros - the latest was a lamp post - several were park and grabs. These are what you would have me use as examples? I have hidden no micros yet - but a film can in the woods? Great example.

Have you found even one of my caches that did not have many brand new items in it? I only know of one cache that has just been reported as nearly empty. My caches have $10-20 worth of items in them - and when I check them they are full of swaggage. You can check the logs and see who is finding them.

When I started caching, there were very few caches (none?) in the areas where I started placing them. There are now 25 well maintained caches of several types in areas where you can, with some planning, take in several at a time. I got some criticism early on because of some 'loose'(?) waypoints due to lack of experience with the gps when marking spots.

Since then certain individuals seems to continue to look for my caches and take every opportunity to find fault with them. Many of these cachers have THOUSANDS of finds. What's the point? I have had many of the same complaints I get for some of the caches I find - do you see me ragging on the cache or the hider? One in particular had 3 of us about 200 feet away up under a freeway before we finally fumbled on the cache. This by one who likes to say my caches are 200 feet off - do you see me ragging on it - others say the same in their logs about this cache.

I believe I provide good caches that are hidden in the spirit of this game to do more than just dump a box somewhere - i.e. view, trail, park, nice spot, interesting or fun hide, etc. If one is looking to boost their count then maybe they should just find park and grabs. If you don't like muli's then don't - if you don't like puzzles (mine are pretty tame!) then don't do them.

Brian beat me in here - I type slow - and expresses some of my thoughts also -

--

edit to add - the log in question is now gone (I was going to leave it) - interestingly the smiley is back.

Edited October 9, 2004 by CompuCash

38.2k · October 9, 2004

It appears that this person was annoyed he had to solve a puzzle, find several stages and walk through the woods to find a cache that was, in the end, close to a street.

I guess he just wanted to be able to pull up and grab the cache without solving the puzzle and walking around the park . I think its great to take what would be an ordinary cache and make it a little interesting. I'd tell the guy tough cookies. Ya can't satisfy everyone.

Edited October 9, 2004 by briansnat

24.7k · October 9, 2004

I have met the person you are talking about and he is a very nice person. You shouldn't be airing "dirty laundry" here. ...

Nice to you and taking time out of his day to something other than nice to CompuCache is not nice. It doesn't even average out to nice.

CompuCache, it's par for the course. You can't make them see light, you can't stop them from not having fun and blaming you for it, you can't do anything but either encrypt the log, let it stand or delete it. Pick one and move on. Sooner or later you will meet the guy and maybe that nice side that Wacka is talking about will shine though.

Edited October 9, 2004 by Renegade Knight

October 9, 2004

A log denigrating someone's cache is incredibly rude. So it doesn't meet your personal high standards, then say "thanks" and leave it at that. There is no need to bash and try to embarrass someone. If there are serious issues with the cache there is no need to "air the dirty laundry" in the logs. A private e-mail to the owner should suffice. That is of course, unless you take some sadistic pleasure out of disparaging others.

I think this person's profile says it all "Anti-social geocacher". He's certainly trying his best to live up to that.

..have had problems finding three of yours, two of them due to being placed in very very dense foliage (trees)

Oops, I didn't know that was a bad thing. Guess I'll have to pull most of my caches because they are usually hidden in dense tree cover. But again, the locals here never seem to have a problem finding them. Now what do I do?

Agreed... If it turned out that it wasn't the best cache in the world by your standards, be a little more polite. That's what's wrong with some people. I was always taught that you should always thank them for their effort.

October 9, 2004

Were the comments nice, NO!!!. Will future comments like the above mentioned be placed on any future caches placed by Compucash, NO. I can say that since I placed the comments.

The mentioned comments were placed do to my thoughts and feelings at the time. The note was edited do to the fact that I realized it was to harsh and not necessarily the truth. It was changed from note to a found because I really don't care to look at the cache on my nearest unfound. Can I be a *ss, yep. Could I bring in copies of logs to make a point, sure. Can anyone here really judge, having never looked for any of the mentioned caches. Or seeing any of the OP's deleted logs, Why not?

No worry though, the *ss wont bother to log any thoughts or opinions on your caches.

Edited to state that I am not excusing my behavior. And do in fact enjoy caching most of the time.

Edited October 9, 2004 by kusanagi

October 9, 2004

I don't know anyone involved in any of this, but I disagree with some of what you've said. I'd argue that finding 75 caches gives one plenty of experience to hide caches. Now, whether or not 25 caches is too many to maintain, I guess that's a different conversation.

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's different in this area. When you've found less than 2% of the caches hidden in the area (with 100 miles) and start hiding a large number of caches, it's not surprising that your caches might be found to be inconsistent with other hides that people are used to. Not that being innovative is a bad thing, either. This is not the first time it has happened in the Bay Area, and no doubt won't be the last. The community will survive.

I've only attempted two of CompuCash's hides. The first was a multicache. I couldn't get past the first stage, which required finding coordinates hidden in an undescribed way somewhere amongst a lot of spiderwebs and dog poop. I haven't been back there since. The other was allegedly a multicache, but I ended up finding the final stage about thirty feet from the coordinates given on the web page. It later turned out that the wrong coordinates had been posted on the web page, they've been since corrected.

October 9, 2004

Oh, one last comment. It really is not a whole lot of fun ending up with a DNF. Yeah, there are some exceptions, but when the hider doesn't seem to want to offer any help with finding a cache or goes out of his way to make a cache harder to find just to see DNF logs, things can be a lot more frustrating than fun. I try to remember that when I hide my own caches, but I forget a lot too, and I apologize to those who end up with DNFs on my caches.

October 9, 2004

I can never justify the response of the guy at the beginning of this thread, but I think his type is easier to deal with if you understand that as people get older some of them feel that they are loosing control of their world. Then, when confronted with a mistake they have made, they tend to strike out feeling that they are being attacked. In reality, they are not, but that feeling is none the less real to them. In my opinion, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, just thank him for his working out your cache and ignore him. He will feel bad soon enough for attacking you. He may never say as much, but he will feel bad about his action. MAYBE!

1.8k · October 9, 2004

I sure think that you are owed an apology...I sure think that you are not likely to get one.

I don't want to know who this is, so I'm not looking. It does seem like these city cachers want to blame everyone else except themselves. It's apparently your fault for not putting the caches out their way. Who knew?

If you're lucky, people who don't like this type of cache will find others to do and leave you alone. Don't loose a lot of sleep over this. I think that I'd stop arguing, emailing, whatever, and let it pass.

2.2k · October 10, 2004

this seems a load of fuss over very little. so he didn't like the cache and was rude/ignorant with the rant. the only person it reflects badly on is the writer. ignore and move on leave the note as it stands then no one else can complain and it stands to show a persons rudeness. don't take any comments to heart, have think to see if you believe the cache description needs changing. if you think it's ok then move on and forget it.

if the trees mean that it's hard to find then either don't do rural caches or get a better gps!

October 10, 2004

Maybe your cache really sucked and someone had the balls to say so? People seldom sat anything about the nice ones.

October 10, 2004

Maybe your cache really sucked and someone had the balls to say so? People seldom sat anything about the nice ones.

Quite the contrary....it's the good caches that get my efforts when it comes to logging. I don't say much about the lame ones, and that says enough.

Speaking of balls, why don't you come on out from behind your sock and make yourself known.

October 10, 2004

Maybe your cache really sucked and someone had the balls to say so? People seldom sat anything about the nice ones.

Quite the contrary....it's the good caches that get my efforts when it comes to logging. I don't say much about the lame ones, and that says enough.

Speaking of balls, why don't you come on out from behind your sock and make yourself known.

I agree!!

October 10, 2004

I say, leave the post on your cache page. Then think like George W. Bush. Maintain low expectations because they are easier to meet, and then if you (or your cache) exceed them people think you're (its) great. On the other hand, if people start with high expectations of your cache and it is just above average, they may tend to be disapointed.

Good luck regardless. It's really too bad when people express their dissapointments without grace.

2.3k · October 10, 2004

Then think like George W. Bush.

This is not the right forum for that.

October 11, 2004

The guy was rude. Nuff said. There are ways to express displeasure without resorting to abuse.

4.5k · October 11, 2004

I can never justify the response of the guy at the beginning of this thread, but I think his type is easier to deal with if you understand that as people get older some of them feel that they are loosing control of their world. Then, when confronted with a mistake they have made, they tend to strike out feeling that they are being attacked. In reality, they are not, but that feeling is none the less real to them. In my opinion, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, just thank him for his working out your cache and ignore him. He will feel bad soon enough for attacking you. He may never say as much, but he will feel bad about his action. MAYBE!

Compucash stated that he made a mistake, but that he got that straightened out. This wasnt even an issue with the complaint log. Your statement that the cache owner is getting older and loosing control of his world, doesnt make any sense. The comment on the cache page was an "attack" and downright uncalled for.

I dont know how the cache is set up and it may not be the best multi in the world. Doesnt matter, the guy didnt like it and thats fine too. All he had to do was put his smiley or frowny face on the page and move on. If he wanted to shoot the owner some constructive criticism or ask for assistance, then he could have done that too.

Oh, one last comment. It really is not a whole lot of fun ending up with a DNF. Yeah, there are some exceptions, but when the hider doesn't seem to want to offer any help with finding a cache or goes out of his way to make a cache harder to find just to see DNF logs, things can be a lot more frustrating than fun. I try to remember that when I hide my own caches, but I forget a lot too, and I apologize to those who end up with DNFs on my caches.

Making the cache harder to find is what we like. All we ask is that you try to be accurate with the difficulty ratings. Good challenging caches are my favorites and when i go after them, yes, sometimes i have to post a frowny face. As far as this cache is concerned, seems like the only thing negative ive seen stated in the above replies is that it's apparently too challenging for a couple of you. Very very dense tree cover? Give me a break . Guess some of you better stick to the 1/1s!!!

October 11, 2004

I can never justify the response of the guy at the beginning of this thread, but I think his type is easier to deal with if you understand that as people get older some of them feel that they are loosing control of their world. Then, when confronted with a mistake they have made, they tend to strike out feeling that they are being attacked. In reality, they are not, but that feeling is none the less real to them. In my opinion, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, just thank him for his working out your cache and ignore him. He will feel bad soon enough for attacking you. He may never say as much, but he will feel bad about his action. MAYBE!

Compucash stated that he made a mistake, but that he got that straightened out. This wasnt even an issue with the complaint log. Your statement that the cache owner is getting older and loosing control of his world, doesnt make any sense. The comment on the cache page was an "attack" and downright uncalled for.

I believe the comment was targeted at me for the response I Posted on Compucash's cache.

I dont know how the cache is set up and it may not be the best multi in the world. Doesnt matter, the guy didnt like it and thats fine too. All he had to do was put his smiley or frowny face on the page and move on. If he wanted to shoot the owner some constructive criticism or ask for assistance, then he could have done that too.

In the future and presently all that is on the cache page is a smiley. As to the rest, he has his reasons and I have mine. No assistance needed.

As far as this cache is concerned, seems like the only thing negative ive seen stated in the above replies is that it's apparently too challenging for a couple of you. Very very dense tree cover? Give me a break . Guess some of you better stick to the 1/1s!!!

I didn't notice much tree cover on this cache and believe the original comment was made concerning several other caches hidden by Compucash.

If any one cares to flame me (or whatever it is called) for the comments I made on Compucash's cache. Then please do so. My reasons our my own. And in the future my opinion's will be kept to my self. As far as a apology goes, I will admit my comments were best kept to myself. My thoughts and feelings however have not changed.

Edited October 11, 2004 by kusanagi

4.5k · October 11, 2004

QUOTE (Mudfrog @ Oct 10 2004, 07:59 PM)
QUOTE (rebapac @ Oct 9 2004, 02:57 PM)

I can never justify the response of the guy at the beginning of this thread, but I think his type is easier to deal with if you understand that as people get older some of them feel that they are loosing control of their world. Then, when confronted with a mistake they have made, they tend to strike out feeling that they are being attacked. In reality, they are not, but that feeling is none the less real to them. In my opinion, which is worth exactly what you are paying for it, just thank him for his working out your cache and ignore him. He will feel bad soon enough for attacking you. He may never say as much, but he will feel bad about his action. MAYBE!

Compucash stated that he made a mistake, but that he got that straightened out. This wasnt even an issue with the complaint log. Your statement that the cache owner is getting older and loosing control of his world, doesnt make any sense. The comment on the cache page was an "attack" and downright uncalled for.

I believe the comment was targeted at me for the response I Posted on Compucash's cache.

Ive read and reread rebapac's reply and am still confused. His first line throws me off since your reply wasnt near the top, but you are probably right. Anyways, hopefully this is pretty much settled and everyone can put this behind them now. Hope ya'll had a great weekend and got to get out and find a bunch of caches!!!

8.4k · October 11, 2004

Geeze what a lame-O. I would have left his post alone and posted a rebuttal for all to see using the following quote and some of my own choice words.

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

1.8k · October 11, 2004

You know what, I honestly don't think the original post was that bad. He didn't like the cache, and he said so. I'd rather see that kind of log than a simple "TNLNSL Thanks" log. And it's certainly not something I would have bothered emailing the person about, had someone posted that same log on one of my caches.

If someone were to send the short, snippy email CompuCash sent me (that is, terse and without explanation), I'd probably offer a snide response in return. I don't mean to absolve Kusanagi, but I can certainly understand where he's coming from.

My advice? Relax, take the criticism, and move on.

October 11, 2004

So, the OP wants affirmation that his/her cache was absolutely ideal and that the person who posted the negative log is an "*ss?"

Here ya go.

1.6k · October 11, 2004

What a jerk!

2k · October 12, 2004

Tha was a fun exchange!

It's about the journey not just the destination. I have no idea who anyone of you good folks are and have probably never done any of your caches. But thanks to to CompuCash for placing a cache and to kusanagi for being willing to respond honestly and openly.

Now I think I'll go running back to Cheers.

Cache Log

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