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Elitist Or Supportist?


Geo Ho
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I take a small measure of pride in being a premium member of Geocaching.com. I am very happy to support the website the provides me with such a cool service and an enormous amount of bandwidth.

 

I placed a member's only cache last week. My plan was to make it a regular cache after a week to allow Premium members a chance to be first to find on the cache. After all, they support the site . . . why not?

 

I was with Mopar while he was looking for the cache. He found it and was suitably impressed. :D

 

We decided to explore the park a little more and on the way back to the parking lot we spotted a familiar car and decided to see if it was who we thought it was. It was . . . there signing the logbook was one of our favorite local cachers, who just so happens to not be a premium member. How he got the coordinates I don't know, nor do I care. The point is this. . . while chatting with him about the cache he asked why I made it member's only cache and called me an elitist for making it such. Me? An elitist? That's too funny . . . but irritating to be called one all the same.

 

:blink::D??? :D:D

 

Anyhoo . . . happy caching and stuff. After all . . . isn't that what's it's supposed to be about? :D

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I will also from time to time make a new cache a subscriber-only cache for the first few days to a week. Mainly it's because I know the subscribers in my area are seasoned veterans, and I want their help in debugging the initial placement. After the first few finds with no problems, the cache goes mainstream. Yes it gives an unfair advantage to the subscribers as far as being FTF, but I don't consider it elitist. What kind of elite class costs only $30 a year? Most people lose more than that in a year from pocket change falling between the couch cushions.

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I take a small measure of pride in being a premium member of Geocaching.com. I am very happy to support the website the provides me with such a cool service and an enormous amount of bandwidth.

 

I placed a member's only cache last week. My plan was to make it a regular cache after a week to allow Premium members a chance to be first to find on the cache. After all, they support the site . . . why not?

 

I was with Mopar while he was looking for the cache. He found it and was suitably impressed. :D

 

We decided to explore the park a little more and on the way back to the parking lot we spotted a familiar car and decided to see if it was who we thought it was. It was . . . there signing the logbook was one of our favorite local cachers, who just so happens to not be a premium member. How he got the coordinates I don't know, nor do I care. The point is this. . . while chatting with him about the cache he asked why I made it member's only cache and called me an elitist for making it such. Me? An elitist? That's too funny . . . but irritating to be called one all the same.

 

:blink::D??? :D:D

 

Anyhoo . . . happy caching and stuff. After all . . . isn't that what's it's supposed to be about? :D

Neither. It's a CHOICE. That's all. Free country and such................... He had no business judging you. Who cares how he got the coords.

 

SNOOGAV.jpg

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Well, if your test of someone finding the cache rests solely on whether they've contributed to Irish's coffers, then yes, you're being elitist.

 

If you are placing it so you "reward" paying members solely for adding to Irish's coffers, then yes, you're being elitist.

 

If there is some other reason, then it's iffy. I know of someone who places MOCs because he doesn't want emails from newbies asking for help to solve his puzzles. Not the prettiest reason, but it works and is the only solution available.

Edited by CoyoteRed
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Elitist Or Supportist?

Elitist, its your choice, but its still elitist.

 

Want to support gc.com? Tell other people, hide fun and interesting caches that get people hooked. And of course, spend your cash so gc.com gets some of it, memberships, merchandise, percentage donation per purchase donation links, etc.

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I'm starting to wonder if some people on here take the position that they feel will get them quoted more than anybody else or they actually believe what they type here.

 

:blink:

 

Geocaching associated with being an Elitist.........who let Michael Moore in here. :D

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Okay... totally not the response I thought I would see in here when I clicked the topic. I don't see anything 'elitist' about it at all. A group of people have chosen to pay for one level of service, another have opted not to. Both have made their choice.

 

It's just like software; I can download the freeware version of XXX.exe which has limited features, and a clunky GUI, or I can pay a few $$ for the 'real' version, and get increased features and a better GUI.

 

Does choosing to pay for a service make you an elitist? I don't think so.

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Okay... totally not the response I thought I would see in here when I clicked the topic. I don't see anything 'elitist' about it at all. A group of people have chosen to pay for one level of service, another have opted not to. Both have made their choice.

 

It's just like software; I can download the freeware version of XXX.exe which has limited features, and a clunky GUI, or I can pay a few $$ for the 'real' version, and get increased features and a better GUI.

 

Does choosing to pay for a service make you an elitist? I don't think so.

Well said, tirediron. I don't see it as elitist either, not that I place MOCs (if I did, they would never be found by many around here).

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I don’t hold the opinion that becoming a Premium Member is supporting Groundspeak. It is simply paying a private corporation for services provided in the form of PQ’s and other “member only” features. People support Groundspeak by hiding caches and allowing Groundspeak to list them since cache listings are their core product. Am I an elitist for purchasing an annual subscription. No. Is it elitist to list Premium Member Only caches? Probably.

 

I’ve heard a lot of reasons why people place member-only caches and, while they might make sense to those who place them, IMHO their reasons don’t hold any water. Members-only caches do not prevent cache piracy, they do not ensure only ‘experienced’ cachers find them first, they don’t allow a cache to be ‘debugged’ first – you should do that before listing it, they do not ‘reward’ premium members for supporting GC but actually penalize and exclude other cachers for not being able to afford or choose not to purchase a membership. Purchasing a Premium Membership does not make a cacher more experienced, more trustworthy, more committed or more entitled to look for caches.

 

However, at the end of the day, it’s your cache and you have the right to list it any way and anywhere you like and it is nobody’s business what your reasons are.

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As a premium member, I would wet myself from the excitement of seeing a premium members only cache in my area. Then I would clean myself up and go find it.

 

However, I wanted the membership, so I could utilize the addition mapping features.

 

And I feel it only right to support a web-site that I want to be around for a while. I like finding a the cache info in one spot.

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I don’t hold the opinion that becoming a Premium Member is supporting Groundspeak.  It is simply paying a private corporation for services provided in the form of PQ’s and other “member only” features.  People support Groundspeak by hiding caches and allowing Groundspeak to list them since cache listings are their core product.  Am I an elitist for purchasing an annual subscription. No.  Is it elitist to list Premium Member Only caches?  Probably.

You've got to be kidding......right?

 

As a business Groundspeak offers additional services in hopes that it might promote more people to become premium members which in turn helps keep a place on the web to list caches. By your logic they could stop offering those services and still operate forever without any income. To think that using any service for free gives you the right to label someone that supports it monetarily for the way they choose to list their caches is ridiculous.

 

I am not condeming anyone that chooses not to become a premium member. That is their choice. But you have no more right to call a premium member or their practices elitist than a premium member has to call you a free-loader.

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... It is simply paying a private corporation for services provided in the form of PQ’s and other “member only” features.  ...

You've got to be kidding......right? ...

 

By your logic they could stop offering those services and still operate forever without any income. ...

I didn't read his post that way. In fact, he postulated that people will become premium members to take advantage of the premium services. This, in turn, pays for Jeremy's new jag and gerbil food.

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Elitist. If you wanna support gc.com then become a "premium member". Making members only caches doesn't encourage other people to become premium members (both personal opinion and from what I've read around the forums). Actually it likely has the exact opposite effect since the vast majority of people don't like being part of elitist groups.

 

Thorin

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I suppose that if I lived in an area with very few caches, and I knew that there were MOCs to be found, that fact may help motivate me to buy a membership. I rather doubt that there are any areas like this, however. In their absence, the practice of creating MOCs probably is elitist. That is not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.

 

Don't we all have that facet of ourselves that is elitist? I know that I look down my nose at people who drive lesser SUVs than my WJ. (I know, I know. My WJ is not currently in tip-top shape, but I'm renting another until the insurance company cuts me a check.)

 

While I'm off the subject, why does anyone buy a 2WD Jeep? I didn't realize they were common until I got back in the market.

 

edit: When will I learn to spell?

Edited by sbell111
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Geocaching associated with being an Elitist.........who let Michael Moore in here.  :D

Who is Michael Moore? Is that someone an elitist should be familiar with? :blink:

I don't know if an elitiest would be familar with him or not, but hes the guy that makes those love/hate documentries. Like Bowling for columbine and fahrenheit 911.

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Making members only caches doesn't encourage other people to become premium members (both personal opinion and from what I've read around the forums). Actually it likely has the exact opposite effect since the vast majority of people don't like being part of elitist groups.

I agree with you on the first statement. I don't know of any members only caches worth shelling out $30 a year for (even the 4 MOC's I own).

 

However, nobody has ever said to me, "I was going to pay to become a premium member but I don't want to be an labeled an elitist."

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I am a premium member and have placed several MOC's. I read earlier that my reasons for doing it are not valid so I will not defend them. But, I would like to state for the record, that I purchased my premium membership initially because I wanted to go hunt some MOC's in my area that were particularly intriguing. I generally make my better caches MOC's to reward those who support Groundspeak as I do. I have no problem with people who choose to not support this sport monetarily, but I see no reason to share my A+ stuff with them. Is that elitist, probably, I have no problem with that. BTW that same old tired "some people can't afford it" is bull. If you can afford a GPS you can afford 3 bucks a month. If you can afford a computer, you can afford 3 bucks a month. If you can afford gas, you can afford 3 bucks a month. If the three bucks is a stretch for you skip one McBurger and your membership is covered. If you choose to not support the "listing service" that makes this game possible, that is fine, but it costs three bucks a month for me to be interested in your rants. If you only see this as a listing service and you do not want to support Groundspeak, what are you doing on the Groundspeak forums? Wouldn't you be better served over on one of those "good" sites. You really should be supporting their forums instead of this one.

 

Someone pointed out that I have a cache that can only be logged by people with over 1000 finds, now that is probably elitist. Except, my whole point was to give people one to work towards. Anyone can find it and post a note, when they cross the 1K mark they can go back and change it to a find. By the way, I made that one an MOC, because if you have 1000 finds and are not a premium member in my opinion you do not deserve to log it. If this "listing service" has given you 1000 finds worth of geocaching pleasure, the least you can do is pony up the cash.

 

I hope that Jeremy makes millions with this and buys everyone new Jaguars or Jeeps or unicycles for that matter. Isn't that the point! Build a better mousetrap, do a better job than the other guy and make your fortune, that is practically the American dream. Why shouldn't Jeremy make money with this excellent product. I am not kissing up to TPTB with this, it is a deeply held belief for me. If someone is willing to work hard, who the F are you to say that they do not deserve to be successful. If you truly believe that as users of this service we should not compensate those who created and maintain it, then it is time for you to turn in your gps and go stand in line for bread. Elitist? How elitist is it for you to say that those who work to provide your entertainment do not deserve to be paid and paid well for it. What do they owe you? What ENTITLED you to receive the benefits of their labor. I wish there were a higher level of membership I could buy. I would do it in a heartbeat, because I think I am getting an incredible bargain here.

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Well, if your test of someone finding the cache rests solely on whether they've contributed to Irish's coffers, then yes, you're being elitist.

Well, CR, disagreeing with you is becoming a habit! But then, I'm in good company.

Neato! I wish someone had told me years ago that I could be part of an elite for $2.50 a month. And to think what I spent on finishing school.
Geocaching associated with being an Elitist.........who let Michael Moore in here.
Michael Moore, by the way, is the idiot who made that hyper-polictical 911 movie.
Okay... totally not the response I thought I would see in here when I clicked the topic. I don't see anything 'elitist' about it at all. A group of people have chosen to pay for one level of service, another have opted not to. Both have made their choice.

etc. etc. Hey, back when I was young Sen. McCarthy called everyone he disagreed with a Communist. Elitist isn't quite as bad. I'm not PM yet, 'cause right now my cash is into adding to our area total. Soon I'll be caught up with that, then I can get PM - to SUPPORT, not 'cause I need it.

No one feels he is better than anyone ....well, I hope. You get services if you want them, you support if you want to. And I still say, an MO cache would be really boring to own, and they won't last.

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I'm not sure that anyone has stated that Jeremy shouldn't be compensated for his work. In fact, in an old thread, I believe I used the phrase 'rich beyond his wildest dreams'. Some have simply surmised that most do not join for the pleasure of looking for MOCs. Some join 'to give back to the site' or for other reasons such as PQs or increased mapping features.

 

As I understand it, this thread does not relate to whether someone should become a premium member, but rather whether hiding MOCs is elitist. To which, I firmly said 'maybe'.

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I see your point, and I will agree with you on the staunch maybe. If it is elitist, is there anything wrong with that? I guess to state my opinion more succinctly and without the rant, I will say, the caches that I consider my better ones, for whatever reason, I generally make MOC's. I will also say that the MOC's I have hunted (at least in Nashville) are for the most part better caches. Never in a Million Years, comes to mind, it is the one that prompted me to buy my membership, I had a mind-staggering 8 finds at that time, including your College Grove Praetorian which was my third ever. I think that when people do place MOC's it is generally because of an interesting area or better swag, or a cool container that they do not want muggled. Making a cache an MOC does cut down on the traffic it gets, but sometimes that is a good thing. I see nothing wrong with placing a particularly good cache and then reserving it for those who have chosen to support the same things that I do, Groudspeak specifically. Just as I see no problem withholding good things from those people who you disagree with. It may not be PC but it is how I feel. And I think that most people would agree that it feels good to give good things to people we like and that it sucks having to share with people that we do not like, whether it is brownies or caches. But I try to be charitable, so I make regular brownies for everyone, and extra-special filled with gooeycaramel and fudge brownies for the people that I like. Now I want a brownie!

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I don't disagree with you on this issue. As I stated above, in some cases, it might be elitist, but there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.

 

This reminds me of one time many years ago when someone attempted to insult me by calling me 'aggressive'. Heck, for many years it had been my job to be aggressive. I took it as a compliment.

Edited by sbell111
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I take a small measure of pride in being a premium member of Geocaching.com. I am very happy to support the website the provides me with such a cool service and an enormous amount of bandwidth.

 

I placed a member's only cache last week. My plan was to make it a regular cache after a week to allow Premium members a chance to be first to find on the cache. After all, they support the site . . . why not?

 

I was with Mopar while he was looking for the cache. He found it and was suitably impressed. :D

 

We decided to explore the park a little more and on the way back to the parking lot we spotted a familiar car and decided to see if it was who we thought it was. It was . . . there signing the logbook was one of our favorite local cachers, who just so happens to not be a premium member. How he got the coordinates I don't know, nor do I care. The point is this. . . while chatting with him about the cache he asked why I made it member's only cache and called me an elitist for making it such. Me? An elitist? That's too funny . . . but irritating to be called one all the same.

 

:D:D??? :D:D

 

Anyhoo . . . happy caching and stuff. After all . . . isn't that what's it's supposed to be about? :blink:

Sugar ... I mean Geo Ho, if you are elitist, then so am I. Like others have so hysterically stated, this is one hell of a cheap 'elitist society'. hehehe

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So you're suggesting that you like people who pay and don't like people that don't? In other words, your friendship can be bought with a GC membership. I might suggest that if you only want people you like to find your caches, email a copy of the cache page to all your friends in advance of it being listed. Then you can be sure that you are only sharing with those you like. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I have emailed coords to a new cache to my caching buddies to allow them first crack at it before listing it on GC. Now that is definitely elitist. In fact, I've even listed caches on NC for a period of time before listing them on GC and, in one case, listed a cache on NC that will never be listed on GC.

 

Elitist is not necessarily a negative label. It all depends on your perspective and you comfort level with being elitist. Sometimes its nice to be part of an elite group. :blink:

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I thought that it was pretty clear that I save my better brownies for people that I like and give those I do not like the plain old brownies. Either way everyone gets brownies. And for the record, you cannot buy my friendship by purchasing a groundpeak membership, but I will have more respect for you as a cacher. Of course, you could also purchase that by giving your actions the strength of your words, not you in particular, but any person. If you do not support Groundspeak, feel free to step off at the next station, I am sure that a Navycache boat will be pulling into port soon.

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A $3.00 a month membership qualifies you as an elitist?!?!?! Good grief. That first finder prize better be a Faberge Egg!

 

Sheesh

 

Bret

 

P.S. Oh, by the way Cher....you may be a Premium Member...but I'm a CHARTER MEMBER! Talk about elitist! :blink:

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... contributed to Irish's coffers, ...

 

... adding to Irish's coffers, ...

Why are you so upset about Jeremy/Groundspeak making money? It seems every other post of yours has a comment/dig/complaint about "money making". You do the same thing! I've seen your website, and I don't see you giving anything away. I'd like to see you offer items to everyone, and if some want to pay you they have the option of getting a few other items. If you can make money on geocaching, why are you so darn upset that someone else does?

 

---------------------------

 

On Topic: GH, be like a duck, let it roll off your back. Don't let a jerk or two ruin your day (though I know unexpected complaints can hurt). I don't see where using a service you pay for (MO caches) is any more elitist than using PQ's to get the cache info. Are those of us now going paperless "elitist"? You could make a reverse arguement that those who choose not to pay for premium membership, and complain about not having the services, are elitist.

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Elitism is usually in regards to an exclusive group where people are voted in. Since you can drop your dime whenever you want to become a member, elitist doesn't seem to be the right term.

 

Exclusionist seems more apt, though some do it just to protect their caches from being plundered.

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By the book, yes hiding a MOC can be elitist if your intent is to exclude lesser cachers. I don't think it was. Jeremy makes a good point in that anybody at any time can pony up the bucks and so that really deflates the entire elitist concept when it comes to geocaching.

 

It's elitist to assume you have the right to hunt a cache that clearly you were not meant to hunt until you did show your support for the site. Well maybe not elitist but something.

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Groucho Marx once stated that "I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER." :D:D:D

You can call it elitist if you want, but I prefer to agree with those who have said it is merely paying for additional services, and supporting (for $.82/day) the website that has and I hope will continue to give me hours of enjoyment. :blink:

I finally signed up for premium status after my first year of participation, partly to help support the website in its business, and to have access to those A+ caches when I went traveling. Since then I have listed most of my caches as MOC's for the first few weeks, and then made them open to all. It is very interesting to read the audit logs and see who has read those cache pages compared to who has actually posted logs of both colors. :D

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Yeah, I think exclusionist is a better term.

 

Geo Ho, if you were actually being elitist (or exclusionary, I suppose), you could delete the log of the cacher that found it while not being a premium member. Right? I mean, you put your cache out for members only, and since you know he wasn't a member, then you would be justified in deleting his log.

 

Looks different that way, eh?

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Yeah, I think exclusionist is a better term.

 

Geo Ho, if you were actually being elitist (or exclusionary, I suppose), you could delete the log of the cacher that found it while not being a premium member. Right? I mean, you put your cache out for members only, and since you know he wasn't a member, then you would be justified in deleting his log.

 

Looks different that way, eh?

Sparky...he can't log it online if he's not a paying member, so there is no log to delete. Unless you want to tear the page out of the logbook :blink:

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As far as I can tell it only excludes those who choose to exclude themselves. And in all honesty, I cannot figure out why we would take the time to listen to folks who are mad because we decided to exclude them from something that they have chosen to not be a part of.

 

Just like those brownies, some people hate brownies, but they are mad that I don't offer them my really good ones. Of course, why are people who do not like brownies, standing in the brownie line?

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Exclusionist seems more apt, though some do it just to protect their caches from being plundered.

Exclusionist is a good term. :D

 

I'm not convinced, though, that MOC's offer much protection from plundering. I don't believe that the act of purchasing a premium membership makes a cacher more trustworthy or honorable than a cacher who is not a paid member.

 

If one is really concerned about their cache being plundered, I would suggest doing what another local cacher did a few months back - make all of their caches MOC and require prospective finders to PM or email the cache owner to obtain the actual coordinates. The downside was that virtually nobody visited his cache after that and, in the end, he ended up publishing the correct coords and making them public again. :blink:

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So the only thing that keeps you from respecting me is $3? Considering the fact that you've never met me, that sounds "quite" elitist to me, and not in a good way.

 

Seriously, though, this issue comes up every so often, with the same old tired arguments both for and against. Originally, the argument was made that MOCs were less likely to be muggled, or pirated. Unfortunately, that's bunk, as anyone with any common sense could easily see. Muggled caches are, by definition, found accidentally, so the cache's location is the determining factor there, not the number of cachers who have access to the coordinates. And as for pirates, MOC's were particularly attractive for them simply because of their "exclusivity", so $3 was a cheap price to pay for the pirates to be able to target them specifically. Not to mention there were ways for pirates to get the coordinates without paying, as well.

 

Then of course there was the argument that premium members were more likely to "trade up" than non-paying members. That one I took personally, since I have always traded up, and I have seen plenty of lousy trades by both regular and premium members alike. A jerk doesn't magically reform because he pays $3. Many premium members, having very many caches under their belts, no longer trade at all, except for perhaps signature items, opting instead to TNLNSL. Is that "trading up"? I don't think so, and I don't think that it improves the condition of the cache at all, although certainly some may disagree.

 

I feel that I have given to this sport and this website, even though I have not ponied up my $ directly to the site. How? I have hidden a couple of caches (ultimately the only reason for the site) that get good reviews. I am approaching 100 finds, and still trade up. I have brought a few others into the sport. I have purchased a significant amount of goods through offroute.com, which I'm led to believe contributes a portion of that to the site (or are we being misinformed?).

 

You obviously haven't met every PM, so how can you say that you like or respect them? Based on $3? :blink: MOCs are, in my opinion, wrong. It is purposely excluding cachers based on a very flimsy premise; that they are not as "good" as you. I just wonder if the owners of MOCs are willing to "walk the walk", so to speak, and only seek out MOCs as well. What's good for the Goose, as they say...

 

Premium membership should afford additional services and features, such as the PQs and the like, but I feel that all caches should be open to all cachers. Caches are, after all, the only reason for this website's existence, and I'd be willing to bet that more caches have been placed by regular members than Premium members, since Premium membership is still a relatively new development. I have nothing against PMs, but I do have something against MOCs, and that is a significant part of the reason I haven't become a Premium Member. Eventually, I will probably become a PM myself, when the time is right for me and I want the extra features. But I will never place a MOC, because it excludes too many people who are actually the reason this sport exists.

 

JMO, so feel free to flame away!

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Why are you so upset about Jeremy/Groundspeak making money?  It seems every other post of yours has a comment/dig/complaint about "money making". 

I'm not upset about Irish making money. What still burns my butt is the control that he tried grasp over a whole hobby. You don't see it much any more, but at one time it was there.

 

Besides, if I were that upset you think I'd be a member?

 

Yeah, I sell some stuff. Only becuase people have asked for it or I wanted some of the same stuff, bought a bunch and pass it along. It's not as if I'm raking in over a quarter million dollars a year.

 

If you read my post, I'm saying if the only reason to allow someone to hunt your cache is if they paid Irish money then that's elitist. That's like saying you can only hunt my caches if you pay me money. How crass is that? It's your prerogative to place MOCs all you want, but don't think for a second that everyone around will look at you with approving eyes.

 

How elitist is it for you to say that those who work to provide your entertainment do not deserve to be paid and paid well for it.
Funny, I thought the folks who placed the caches are the ones providing the entertainment. When do I start paying them?

 

Yeah, "exclusionist" is a good term because you don't have to be "A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status" to place a MOC.

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Geocaching associated with being an Elitist.........who let Michael Moore in here.  :D

Who is Michael Moore? Is that someone an elitist should be familiar with? :blink:

I don't know if an elitiest would be familar with him or not, but hes the guy that makes those love/hate documentries. Like Bowling for columbine and fahrenheit 911.

You mean fiction and fact twisting

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Well I have also set up caches that were for members only for the first couple of weeks, My reason is that I wanted to see the FTF prizes go to local cachers that also place lots of caches in the area. The prizes in the caches ranged in value from $2.00 - $10.00 per prize. I call this supporting fellow vetran cachers, if that is being Elitist, so be it.

 

By the way----What is wrong with being Elitist. Some people may say it's not fair, well who said life has to be fair,

 

Geocaching has got to be one of the cheapest hobbies you can get into it. All you need is a $99.00 GPS. I think $30.00 a year for a few extra features is well worth the money. That is about the cost of a Pizza Dinner for four hungry geocahers.

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Geocaching has got to be one of the cheapest hobbies you can get into it. All you need is a $99.00  GPS. I think $30.00 a year for a few extra features is well worth the money. That is about the cost of a Pizza Dinner for four hungry geocahers.

$30 for extra features is fine. I just don't see the ability to exclude a large contingent of cachers as a desirable "feature". :blink:

 

Although I agree completely with your assessment of Michael Moore's "documentary"!! :D

Edited by 4x4van
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I'm a Premium member, but more proudly, I'm a Charter member. When Jeremy originally started offerring memberships I was more than willing to help. I've never used a PQ, mainly because I don't know how. I have used the mapping program a couple of times.

 

My point is that I gladly pay my 30.00 a year without any expectations of perks. I can't think of any other game I can play and have as much fun, spend time with my wife, meet great people, and get to explore new places. If that's not worth 30 bucks, I don't know what is.

 

I think everyone that can afford to be a member, should be a member.

 

Am I an elistist? Not in my opinon. Of course as I've learned in these forums...opinons differ.

 

El Diablo

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My point is that I gladly pay my 30.00 a year without any expectations of perks.

I expect perks. Lots of perks. Perks! Perks! Perks!

:blink:

 

Oops, I hit send before I got to the actual part of my post. I became a PM long before I even knew how to use a PQ. I didn't expect anything in return for it; I just felt that it was worth the three bucks a month. I don't consider myself elitist, and I don't care if you choose not to put in the money. I didn't care about MOCs before I became a PM, and they don't make any difference to me now either.

Edited by Team PerkyPerks
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The primary reason I pay for membership is for the extras. Queries are the main reason, but I've used the MOC feature during times if local maggot infestations. I don't mind paying for the extra's. A years membership is less than a single greens fee. Tiered memberships are also a "Best Practice" when it comes to funding all the freebies.

 

As far as coffers go... Most of us have jobs and careers or depend on someone that does for support. Some of us drive Geo's, some drive Humvees. If someone can stride away from the crowd, I say "Good on ya".

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