Busted!!

February 26, 2004

I recently bought a Garmin Gps 92 and found your website quite amazing. So i looked up my home coordinates last night and realized there are a wealth of caches all over the place nearby. So i decided last night in a hurry to go out and find the cache named "chameleon"

There I was with my girlfriend, my glowing gps and two flashlights, stomping all over snow and looking at trees wondering, where is this thing!

Well i guess i cought the attention of a passing police officer who found it "VERY suspicious" that i'd be out at 11pm on a wednesday looking for treasure. The fact that i had the GPS so obviously in my hand at the time didn't deter him. So he called on backup, they scoured the area and detained us for at least an hour while they figured out what to do. I'm wondering if he thought i was hiding a body or something!!

Long story short he let me go and simply asked that i leave. So my question is, is there some sort of creed or card that people use to let others know what they are doing?

needles to say i never found the chameleon but i do hope to go again in the daytime to try again.

Ottawa police have too much free time on their hands!

24.7k · February 26, 2004

Once the police figure out geocaching exists they are usually cool with it. In Idaho a lot of police are aslo cachers and actually like that people other than hooligans are out and about.

5.3k · February 26, 2004

So my question is, is there some sort of creed or card that people use to let others know what they are doing?

If you search the forums you'll find that some people created business cards that describe what geocaching is all about. Just recently, CYBret made a nice brochure that gives a lot of info.

February 26, 2004

this is what happened to me this week :huh:

<br>

look at my log entry

I thought it was funny afterwards.. but everything ended up great :huh:

5k · February 26, 2004

Did you log your Not Found on the cache page? That might be some useful information for future cachers and the owner.

Jamie

Edited February 26, 2004 by Jamie Z

9.2k · February 26, 2004

I recently bought a Garmin Gps 92 and found your website quite amazing. So i looked up my home coordinates last night and realized there are a wealth of caches all over the place nearby. So i decided last night in a hurry to go out and find the cache named "chameleon"

There I was with my girlfriend, my glowing gps and two flashlights, stomping all over snow and looking at trees wondering, where is this thing!

Well i guess i cought the attention of a passing police officer who found it "VERY suspicious" that i'd be out at 11pm on a wednesday looking for treasure. The fact that i had the GPS so obviously in my hand at the time didn't deter him. So he called on backup, they scoured the area and detained us for at least an hour while they figured out what to do. I'm wondering if he thought i was hiding a body or something!!

Long story short he let me go and simply asked that i leave. So my question is, is there some sort of creed or card that people use to let others know what they are doing?

needles to say i never found the chameleon but i do hope to go again in the daytime to try again.

Ottawa police have too much free time on their hands!

Hand 'em the cache page. Another good reason to use actual printouts, rather than storing the info in a PDA.

5.9k · February 26, 2004

It's best not to be seen.

3.1k · February 26, 2004

I usually have the cache page printed out in my hand when I'm caching and that has helped an overzealous cop to recognize he hasn't solved the crime of the century

February 27, 2004

The story's been posted for hours and no one's asked the obvious question?

Do you still have a girl friend?!?

2.6k · February 27, 2004

Well you started out with a fairly easy cache, the only thing is it seems to be well camoed. Try it again during daylight hours, and stay with the easier ones until you hone your skills a little more.

Good luck and welcome to this crazy game.

PS hope you still have a G/F

Edited February 27, 2004 by vagabond

February 27, 2004

hahaha thanks all for the support. Actually my GF was really great throught the ordeal, she of course has all day been bugging me with " Well you see officer we're geocache-ing, it's this website you see, and well we're HUNTING TREASURE!" yeah that was it. the cop informed me that he knew "dadgum well" what a GPS was and that he wasn't interested in my story.

I agree that from now on i'll bring a printout of the website and i guess I'll need to look further to find this little guy so close to home.

February 27, 2004

Oops!

A little advice regarding police officers and after midnight stuff:

Being the 'odd' sort of person that I am (like frequently rollerblading at 2:30 in the morning) taking hikes in the woods at midnight (and I wasn't even geocaching until recently) I've realized that there are 'normal' things a person does at night, such as sleeping, watching television... and sleeping. Anything other than that and it's NOT normal (IE: which makes it SUSPICIOUS.) Not that I blame them or want them to STOP thinking that way! After all, If I had a guy poking around the woods near my house at 1:30 in the morning with a flashlight and wandering around in seemingly aimless circles ... Yeah, I would want the police VERY interested! The key is to be as unsuspicious as you can be (without actually being in your bed!) Things like diving into the woods when you see a car, shutting off your flashlight when you have an officer drive past you or shutting down your flashlight when you see the telltale dashboard searchlight moving about. (hint: It's TOO late; keep both your hands at your sides and walk toward the light.) :lol:

Even overly hiding your automobile off of a trailhead is the wrong thing to do!

Personally, I'll even make it a point to be OVERLY OBVIOUS, such as leaving the caution lights flashing or leaving a note with my 'itinerary' and the time I left and the time I'm expecting to be back. Leave it right by the vehicle identification number in the dashboard (since that's the second thing they'll look at when they call it in... And if you're worried about your car being stolen or broken into... What the hell are you doing? )

If I'm confronted (and I have been numerous times) I'm very 'submissive', let them see both my hands at all times and also very careful where I point the flashlight. (Never in their eyes!) I've learned to offer them first an explanation and then an immediate voluntary pat-down to put them more at ease. (So they know I'm not carrying a weapon of any kind or possessing any 'breaking and entering' tools like a crowbar or a screwdriver or things like that...) And make sure you have your ID with you! They want it, and wanted it yesterday! (DON'T reach for it until they ask for it; you can just IMAGINE how that looks!) Get them past the 'I've got a suspicious character' phase as fast as humanly possible and right into the 'okay, he's just a harmless freak' phase. I'm not normally a submissive person (by any means) but when I'm 'technically' doing something I probably shouldn't be doing at 2:30 am (the whole 'dusk' thing that's on the sign confuses me!) and the only person I'm talking to can either 1) shoot me or 2) keep me in a cold dark place with round metal poles and give me a new roommate named 'Bubba' - dadgum right, I'm submissive. ESPECIALLY if it might be first 1 and THEN 2.

Key! I won't act like I'm doing anything wrong (since I'm not) but will readily drop whatever I'm doing and go home if they ask. I've realized that it's perfectly okay to 'be a little off' in the mind of a police officer, but it's not a good thing to be suspicious. Being a little off is harmless... Being a possible suspect is not. :lol:

Edited February 27, 2004 by GeoMaine

February 27, 2004

I agree with Criminal, it's best not to be seen.

I like 2am for caching. Around here the bars close at 2am, so the cops are busy with drunk drivers etc (of course that makes the drive to the cache a bit more challenging). I almost always cache in darkness, and haven't had a problem yet. came close once, but stealthed my way out of it.

I use my flashlight sparingly, and mostly use an Inova X5 LED flashlight with a softer glow than most flashlights.

1.5k · February 27, 2004

Yeah, stealth is best. But when that time comes that you are dealing the the police, be upfront and forthright with what you're doing. Either have a cache printout or the PDA file to reference and don't beat around the bush...until after they're gone. I've had probably a dozen encounters with the police over the last few years of caching, and not one has ended negatively, at least not for me. There was an incident where the OTHER guy who instigated the ordeal probably isn't going to be doing that again anytime soon.

9.1k · February 27, 2004

One fact is missing from your story. Were there any signs at the entrance to the park you were in, saying "Park closes at sunset" or "Park Hours 7 a.m. to 8 p.m."??? If you were there despite these restrictions then the police treatment you received was entirely appropriate.

On the other hand, if you were hunting for the cache in an area with no closing restrictions, the police reaction strikes me as overkill. Calling for backup and discussing the matter for as long as they did? Yikes. I have had many encounters with law enforcement, including one where I was inadvertently trespassing on private property adjacent to state land that had no closing restrictions, and all of these encounters have been pleasant. Once I explained what I was doing and demonstrated through a polite, straightforward demeanor that I was harmless, I've always been allowed to go on my way within 1 to 5 minutes.

When asked "what are you doing?" I first answer "I'm enjoying the park! It's a beautiful day, isn't it?" Then if asked for details, or why I have a GPS, I will explain geocaching, if I know the cache is placed with permission, or I'll just say that I use my GPS for hiking, avoiding getting lost, and "playing games." Most police officers and park rangers are familiar with GPS and it usually turns into a friendly conversation. I haven't converted any of them to geocaching.... YET.

In any event, I am sorry that your first geocaching experience was not pleasant. But at least it was memorable!

February 27, 2004

Where I was there are no time restrictions, i think part of the problem was that i wasn't down "in the bushes" more so i was simply next to a major road walking along. The cop didn't like whatever he saw and paniced i guess.

I'm really glad that i live in Canada though, where the cops never "shoot first and ask questions later" insytead they ask a million assinine questiuons trying to ferret out something they can get a "hit" on. In my case he ended up running full warrant searches for my gf and I then running my car (even though the car had nothing to do with geocaching i just happened to be near it by the time the cop realized where his "target" was)

So all said i still believe this is a great hobby and next time i'm bothered by john q law i think i might be a little more aggressive with "Tell me officer, what am i doing that is illegal here? nothing, thank you and good day"

February 27, 2004

Sorry to hear that your first experience with our wonderful sport/crazy obsession was a negative one. I hope this doesn't serve as a deterrent of any kind.

Never been approached by law enforcement during the course of caching, but I have always 'done the deed' during daylight hours and usually with my four year old daughter in tow. I expect that the sight of an overweight 41 year old leading a youngster around in circles is humorous enough that the normal reaction would be to sit, watch and chuckle. And then maybe try to figure out what's going on...

Anyway, I hope you stick with it. You'll find that most members of law enforcement range from "finding-out-what-you're-doing-and-then-deciding-that-it's-harmless-and-then-they-don't-care" to "mildly-interested-in-the-whole-idea-and-maybe-willing-to-give-it-a-try-sometime". (Sorry for all the hyphens...)

Good luck!

(By the way, it would be best not to take an aggressive tack with John Law. Remember, he's got a gun, handcuffs, radio, etc!)

Edited February 27, 2004 by Team Flashncache

February 27, 2004

Viennatech:

Sorry to hear that your first geocaching experience wasn't as planned. I would like to post some feedback from the other side.

Law Enforcement officers are paid and expected to be curious when they see something abnormal. If an officer sees something that looks abnormal from their perspective and life experience, they SHOULD check it out. That is how crimes are prevented and solved. Also realize that citizens frequently call in and report "suspicious circumstance" calls that generate a police response. Also realize that most of us really do try to be helpful. If we see you doing something that might indicate you need some assistance, stopping to inquire is doing our job.

An Officer making contact with you will be very mindful of Officer safety. We want to go home at the end of our shift. This is not the time to assert your right to be in the woods, play lawyer, and walk away. This is the time to keep your hands in plain sight. This is the time to not make any sudden movements. This is the time to do far more listening than speaking. Once you realize that you are being contacted by an officer, and you are out of your vehicle, you might do something like: Acknowledge the fact that you see the Officer and recognize him/her as such. "Hi Officer, we are just geocaching". Keep your hands visible. If you have something in your hands that could be used as a weapon or mistaken as such, consider putting it down slowly. Do Not make any sudden movements. Do not move towards the officer or areas of concealment. Let them tell you what they would like you to do.

You will be given a chance to tell them what you are up to. This is the time to tell them that you are geocaching and ask them if they are familiar with it. If not, tell them about the game, the website, the local cache, etc. If you have the cache printout, ask them if they would like to see it. (I think having the cache print out pages is an excellent idea!)

Depending upon the circumstances, your group and vehicle might be run for wants and warrants. This is standard. Do not take offense to this. Missing persons, homicides, serious crimes have all been mitigated or solved because of an officer looking into something exactly like this.

Your attitude and demeanor will go a long way in deciding on how your contact will go. You might just end up having a very pleasant conversation on geocaching and convert an Officer into a geocacher.

When I am not rushing call-to-call, I enjoy pleasant conversations with interesting people who have something to share. This is how I continue to learn. (This is also how something that would appear to be highly suspicious before, might appear to be much less suspicious afterwards.)

I hope that your future contacts with LE are more pleasant for you. Have fun!

A veteran Officer/Rookie Geocacher.

9.1k · February 27, 2004

dzdiver, that was a really excellent post, thank you.

I couldn't agree more about appearing and speaking in a non-threatening manner. Especially in parks, when I see an officer or a ranger I will make a point of strolling near them and saying hello. People who are up to no good do not normally go out of their way to chat with law enforcement. I have had many pleasant conversations this way. I've also learned things like areas of the park to avoid due to suspicious activity, a trail that I didn't know about, what time the park closes, or other local information that the officer or ranger is happy to share.

On the other hand, when it is the officer who initiates contact with me, especially at night or outside of a park, I will behave pretty much exactly like dzdiver describes in his post.

February 27, 2004

As someone who's been in the position of staring down the barrels of three police weapons simultaneously (no, I'm not a criminal - it's a long story), I can say that following dzdiver's advice is a very good idea. Luckily, I knew they were coming and I knew not to surprise them, keep my hands visible, etc.

There's a big difference between being detained for a few minutes and being harassed. I'm all for asserting your rights when you're being harassed, but giving a LEO a hard time for wanting to talk to you for a few minutes might make you look suspicious and definitely makes you look like a jerk, and if done while caching, will give the LE agencies a negative view of the game/sport/hobby.

February 27, 2004

I have had few encounters in my whole life with law enforcement but the most recent was also the most memorable.

On my way to pick up my granddaughter from volleyball practice I saw an entrance to a park I had never visited. On the way back I pulled in with my granddaughter (15 yrs old) to check it out for future hiding spots for caches. As I pull into the parking area I was in front of three cop cars (and no donut shops in sight). I made a circle slowly and headed back out. Snow on the ground, quite an open area, supper was ready, etc. Time to leave. I drove down the road a couple miles and stopped at a light. It was then that I realized that a cop was behind me. I waited for the light and made the turn. As I approached the expressway he turned his light on and pulled me over. I pulled into a car wash to get off the road and realized that there were three cop cars behind me.

Apparently they saw a middle aged man with a young girl in a park who left at the sight of policemen and became suspicious. I gave them my paperwork, briefly explained what I was doing and waited. I am sure they ran my license but they came up with nothing. When he returned I gave him the web site information, he gave me my paperwork, and I thanked him for protecting my granddaughter. It only took about 20 minutes or so.

Next time, I may go say hi if I see a cop.

February 27, 2004

Hi viennatech, if you are in the Ottawa area, there is an event that starts tonight and ends with everyone meeting at a local Pub/Resturant, Go and Get Em 4!!!. If you have the time, please join in at 6PM and meet some of your fellow Ottawa cachers. There are 25 new caches placed for the event, a list can be found here, Cache list. Hope to see you out, we will only be out tomorrow.

7.2k · February 27, 2004

My "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

Works, too! Print out and it folds into a business card sized deal. If nothing else, it's a good source for emergency paper.

Hope this helps!

1.5k · February 28, 2004

My "Get Out Of Jail Free" Card came from them.

It helps mellow out potentially volatile situations if I have an encounter with an officer who might be a little overzealous in his duties, but that's never happened before. If anything, it puts me on a level playing field with them, and before the contact is over we're chatting like buddies.

7.2k · February 28, 2004

My "Get Out Of Jail Free" Card came from them.

Yeah, but I gotta quit my job, convince Sissy to move Arizona, apply for a position, pass all of the physical and psychological tests, go to the academy...

In all of the wierd places we've cached and all of the times we've night cached, we've only encountered police maybe 3 or 4 times. Never have we had any problems. We just explain what we're doing and they move on. The card helps as it proves it's not something I just made up and because I always have them on me, they're ready to go.

1.5k · February 28, 2004

I've always just made sure to have at the very least a cache printout or more than likely the PDA files that I can show them. There's never been a problem with what I was doing at the time the contact was made, and it's always been a point of mine to be very forthcoming with information. It takes officers off the defensive if they know you aren't hiding any information from them. Don't get me wrong though. The guard is rarely ever down, but body language shows they are more at ease.

Busted!!

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