Pulled Over For A Gps In The Window?

January 13, 2004

So I give my 70+ year old parents a Magellan GPS for Christmas, two weeks later they are pulled over by a state police officer who thinks he has someone trying to violate the state's no radar detectors law!

How often does this happen? My parents live 5 miles from the state in question. Nearly half of all of their driving is in the state that bans radar detectors. Is this going to continue to be a problem for them?

I would never have thought a non-speeding SUV would be pulled over and asked if the 'thing' in the window is a radar detector. My Father has never exceeded the speed limit in his life...he has never even had a traffic accident of any kind. Now I give him a gift for Christmas and it gets him pulled over. What have I done?

How frequent is this happening in the states that ban radar detectors?

Just curious,

CygnusX1

20.7k · January 13, 2004

Bummer.

May I suggest an external antenna placed on the dash? This would allow the GPSr to be mounted lower. In my WJ, I use an external powered antenna and have my 3+ mounted lower. A side benefit is my GPSr locks on quickly and reception is awesome with the powered antenna.

24.7k · January 13, 2004

It's a disgusting case of GPS Profiling. You would think in a country as civilized as ours this kind of thing would not happen. To be pulled over for nothing other than "looking guilty" is blatant abuse of your parents civil rights! Get a lawyer ASAP!

Seriously I don't know if Idaho bans radar detectors but the only reason we have been pulled over is for missing a front plate. The GPS was in the window plain as day.

Edited January 13, 2004 by Renegade Knight

20.7k · January 13, 2004

The good news is the local police will get tired of pulling him over for this after a while.

4.4k · January 13, 2004

NONE IN MISSOURI THAT I KNOW OF YET.

IN FACT THEY NOW HAVE THEM TOO.

NOW YOU CAN TELL HIM HE HAS BEEN THROUGH SOME OF WHAT SOME GEOCACHERS GO THROUGH,THERE IS THAT THING ABOUT HEIGHTENED SECURITY AND WATCHING FOR SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.

I AM NOT INSINUATING PA IS SUSPICIOUS.

IT WAS A WAY TO EXPLAIN HIS ACTIONS THE STATE TROOPER THAT IS.

January 13, 2004

I often put my Magellan Meridian Green on the dash to let it get better reception when I'm on the way to a cache. I've often wondered what police would think... sorry to here that man

9.4k · January 13, 2004

If they end up with a ticket, make sure they log this cache!

January 13, 2004

Wow 106 tick--er logs

2.7k · January 13, 2004

I have my Street Pilot permanently mounted in the center of my dash.

Usually its the speeders with radar detectors that slow down when they pass me.

20.7k · January 13, 2004

If they end up with a ticket, make sure they log this cache!

I couldn't resist a FTF on that cache.

January 13, 2004

I have been pulled over on the Military Post I live on for the same thing, luckily I am a Military Police Officer and it was not a radar detector. The worst was when I pulled up to one of the gates on the Fort and was accused of trying to get the GPS location of the gate so I could pass the info on to others. I guess I will have to tuck it away when I am on the post or coming up to the gates.

2.3k · January 13, 2004

What did the police officer say/do when he saw it was a GPSr??

Good thing he didn't have an almanac in the car too!!

2.1k · January 13, 2004

Must of been Virginia?

It could a common error. I just wouldn't put it on the dash...lol

But I think it's silly to pull a person over just because they think they see one. Now if they pulled him over for speeding and saw that he had a detector, that would be a different story. I think the the officer might of been violating the way they are supposed to handle it. Probably some young gung-ho trooper at that. But it would of been funny to see the expression on the troopers face when he was told no that it wasn't a RADAR detector.

2.3k · January 13, 2004

I got pulled over in Virginia once... I had my radar detector sitting on the dash and I very quickly pulled it off and locked it in the glove compartment... Fortunately, I only got a ticket for speeding.

At the time I was a stoopid college kid and I had a license plate frame on my car that said Courtesy my A@@, I'm from New York! Didn't get out of any tickets for those 2 years I had the frame....

2.1k · January 13, 2004

Doc, to get out of tickets, you have to have a the right kind of "frame"...

2.3k · January 13, 2004

Doc, to get out of tickets, you have to have a the right kind of "frame"...

Yea, I found out spitting on their shoes didn't work. Took a few nightstick beatings for me to realize the error of my ways...

January 13, 2004

you should never get a ticket for the GPSr in the window. if it is being used as a navagational aid.. it is legitimate. i would have to do some research on states other than the north east, but most state law concerning this does not affect GPSr.

there are hundreds to thousands of things a vehicle can be stopped for. the radar detector stop is almost a personal insult to state troopers as they spend a good portion of their time battling speeders. they just want us to play "fair." lol.

just be aware that a catch all law can screw up your day.. almost all states have a "obstruction of view" law in their VTL. this means nothing, nada can be placed forward of the driver, between the driver and the windshield glass. this includes pom-poms, flowers, key chains, dice, flags and of course our GPSr. this said...

i use my GPSr everywhere i go. "Gadget Geek!" i place it in a cradle and suction cup to windshield. it is directly under my mirror and -- I belv it does not block my view. i use it as a navagational aid to be aware of what roads lay ahead. sometimes i have waypoints that show major intersetions and places of interest.

a brief disply of the knowledge of the device to any officer would probably avoid a summons of any kind.

robbie

NY Vehicle Traffic Law
Equipment --

375 (30)

30. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle

with any object placed or hung in or upon the vehicle, except required

or permitted equipment of the vehicle, in such a manner as to obstruct

or interfere with the view of the operator through the windshield, or to

prevent him from having a clear and full view of the road and condition

of traffic behind such vehicle.

that is the one catch all, and most states have it.

use common sense and know how to explain the navigational aid you are using. for you radar dodgers... you are on your own.. i don't think i could even explain that one away.. lol.

Edited January 13, 2004 by robree

2.1k · January 13, 2004

They didn't get a ticket from what I understand...just pulled over because the state law prohibits RADAR detectors and the GPSr was thought to be one. Normally, these type of laws are secondary and are not offenses that bring an initial pullover. Legally they could, but normally dept policies don't have them to. Just like seat belt laws. Although some places are saying they can pull you over if they see you aren't wearing one. It's petty stuff. We pulled people over for petty stuff in the Air force all the time. It was usually to check the driving status of the person (expired DL's, no DL's, vehicle registrations, wants and warrants from time to time and etc). Normally it resulted in a "hey you need to get this fixed" or whatever. Many times it resulted in wanted poeple being caught, drugs found and etc.

2.1k · January 13, 2004

RADAR detectors don't matter, a police officer running radar can beat a detector. I used to do it all the time....

2.5k · January 13, 2004

Since it's a Magellan, there is no need to keep it in the window. Just tell your parents to keep it on the console, perhaps in the cupholder.

2.1k · January 13, 2004

I have a Garmin Geko 201 and the neck cord. I hang it over my mirror and it keeps a pretty good signal...

5.9k · January 13, 2004

Since it's a Magellan, there is no need to keep it in the window. Just tell your parents to keep it on the console, perhaps in the cupholder.

For that matter, since it's a magellen, tell them to put it in the trunk. At least the smell wouldn't be so troublesome....

2.3k · January 13, 2004

Since it's a Magellan, there is no need to keep it in the window. Just tell your parents to keep it on the console, perhaps in the cupholder.

For that matter, since it's a magellen, tell them to put it in the trunk. At least the smell wouldn't be so troublesome....

Put it in the trunk and it will still keep its satellite lock unlike some other brands which can't keep in lock in clear sky...

2.5k · January 13, 2004

Since it's a Magellan, there is no need to keep it in the window. Just tell your parents to keep it on the console, perhaps in the cupholder.

For that matter, since it's a magellen, tell them to put it in the trunk. At least the smell wouldn't be so troublesome....

Look, you really want to help? Go make me a sandwich!

January 13, 2004

Normally it resulted in a "hey you need to get this fixed" or whatever. Many times it resulted in wanted poeple being caught, drugs found and etc.

same idea here. i really don't do too many car stops. more surveillance stuff.

sneaky peeky stuff... lol. one of my many toys at work.

robbie

2.1k · January 13, 2004

Normally it resulted in a "hey you need to get this fixed" or whatever. Many times it resulted in wanted poeple being caught, drugs found and etc.

same idea here. i really don't do too many car stops. more surveillance stuff.

sneaky peeky stuff... lol. one of my many toys at work.

robbie

That looks like more fun than pulling over some hot chick, I mean license plate light violator, to get her name, I mean "advise" her that it was out... lol

2.3k · January 13, 2004

same idea here. i really don't do too many car stops. more surveillance stuff.

sneaky peeky stuff... lol. one of my many toys at work.

robbie

Looks like the inside of the space shuttle!

1.2k · January 13, 2004

Looks like the van from Sneakers.

1.4k · January 13, 2004

Technically, the local and state police have no right to ban radar detectors. Any RF receiving or transmitting device is regulated by the FCC under the federal communications act of 1934 as ammended. If ever challenged in court, and pressed far enough, it would be overturned. Communications equipment control is a federal issue - ONLY.

Now, it could get expensive. And as previously stated, if you beat the radar detector ownership law, they hit you with the having it in the window law. You will pay, one way or another.

Personally, I prefer my home-made jammer. X-band, K-band, and pulse-flashed infra-red LEDs from radio shack. One of the local police is so ammused with my experiments he often sets up and allows me to test it againce his equipment.

Electronics can be fun!

4.7k · January 13, 2004

i'm big into civil liberties, but i do not own a firearm or radar detector. i resent traffic stops for bogus causes, and i'm just waitng for the day when they abridge my civil rights and i am whisked off to prison without representation because of a conversation started with an officer who wants to know if that's a radar detector, or what i'm doing looking around for a container for that matter.

for obvious reasons i do not fly anymore. i just think it wouldn't be smart for me to try.

2.1k · January 13, 2004

Not sure if you've been to Virginia Desert Warrior, but there are huge signs as you enter that state the use of RADAR is prohibited. Now I will say this. If you are from out of state and do not have the RADAR on, then they will not do anything if they pull you over. Of course all you have to do is turn it off if you get pulled over. If I remember correctly my dad had one in his conversion van and got pulled over for speeding, but nothing was ever said about hte detector. Of course it was inside a built in cabinet for it and was not easily visible.

Virginia has had those signs/laws for a very long time. AS long as I can remember for 15-20 years. I would imagine that if it was illegal for them to do so, that someone would of pushed the issue with them.

January 13, 2004

Tell the cop you can load the locations of all donut shops as waypoints. He'll be a big fan of GPS after that.

1.2k · January 13, 2004

Are Radar detectors legal in any/most states? I am pretty sure we can't have them up here in the Great White North.

4.4k · January 13, 2004

same idea here. i really don't do too many car stops. more surveillance stuff.

sneaky peeky stuff... lol. one of my many toys at work.

robbie

Now I know who's been follerin me it's robbie.

Looks like one of those new Mobile GPS tracking devices.

Can I borrow it for a couple of days????

2.1k · January 13, 2004

Are Radar detectors legal in any/most states? I am pretty sure we can't have them up here in the Great White North.

Yep, pretty much most states allow htem...

But a cop can get around them...

I'm not sure of how the jammer that Desert Warrior was speaking of works or if there is a way around it for the cops or not. I do remember growing up that my father had this little tube of mercury that his father gave him under the car seat. It was said to throw off RADAR. Not sure if it was true or not.

I do remember going through the RADAR class in California and we even had some non military going through it with us. They told us that CHP (California Highway PAtrol) was certified by sight. Meaning that they could tell how fast you are going by watching you and it was alowed in court. They were suppsoedly trained to within 1 or 2 MPH error margin. I do know in the middle of the class that we went off base (Edwards AFB) to a bridge over a highway and we had to guess the speeds of oncoming vehicles. We had to get it down to within a range as part of the class (to pass).

January 13, 2004

I do remember going through the RADAR class in California and we even had some non military going through it with us. They told us that CHP (California Highway PAtrol) was certified by sight. Meaning that they could tell how fast you are going by watching you and it was alowed in court. They were suppsoedly trained to within 1 or 2 MPH error margin. I do know in the middle of the class that we went off base (Edwards AFB) to a bridge over a highway and we had to guess the speeds of oncoming vehicles. We had to get it down to within a range as part of the class (to pass).

Well, my understanding is they (can) use reference points and a stopwatch.

January 13, 2004

Technically, the local and state police have no right to ban radar detectors. Any RF receiving or transmitting device is regulated by the FCC under the federal communications act of 1934 as ammended. If ever challenged in court, and pressed far enough, it would be overturned. Communications equipment control is a federal issue - ONLY.

My understanding is any receiver is legal, but that may not be the case. Transmitting is a whole other story...

January 13, 2004

Glad to hear they didn't get a ticket. I can't see an officer writing a ticket for a GPS obstructing view unless there was an accident and it was determined a cause or a factor. I would rather write tickets that I could defend without looking like a fool in court. I can see it now, the judge says, "You stpped them for what????" eash tim that happens you lose a bit of credibility!!

Actually Radar detectors are illegal in all 50 states in Commercial Motor Vehicles. A radar detector emits a signal that can be detected, hence the radar detector detector. I had one in my car specifically for CMV enforcement.

I beat a whole lot of radar detectors and jammers. I guess it comes down to using common sense and playing the"game".

The Kustom video units have an interface for a GPS to track your location...

The THP trained us the same way. To be able to judge speed based upon a visual observation first, then use the radar second, then compare patrol speed on the radar to the patrol speed on your car. Alot to do in a few seconds huh!!!

Edited January 13, 2004 by skeeter64

January 13, 2004

Couple comments.... First, I went to school in VA, and from my recollection, it was in fact illegal to have a radar detector anywhere accessible in the car. At least that is what I was always told. I always put mine in the glovebox (although that is arguably accessible also).

I did get pulled over once in my (then) home state of NJ with my radar detector. I just left it on the dash, and the cop was really cool about it. Basically said, "I see you have a radar detector there, maybe it went off too late for you" and all I got was a warning.

That radar detector, which I had had since before I had a license (17 in NJ), was stolen from my car years later when some loser smashed out the passenger side window for the detector and a couple CD's. Yes, I shouldn't have left the detector in full view, but the thing was so darn old I figured noone wanted it anyway! I never bothered to replace it....

And to keep it on topic... I routinely drive around with my GPSr in a cradle on the windshield (but I hide it when I leave the car!).

Finally, for an interesting hybrid of GPS and radar detector, see my post in the GPS Units forum about the "GPS Road Angel".

TX Hokie

4.4k · January 13, 2004

Desert Warrior speaks of a jammer, I too know a little about them HEATH Kits use to put them out and you complete the circuit boards,for almost anything.

They work by emitting a false signal.

The Mercury worked on old ones(Radar) much in the same way as putting aluminum foil in your hubcaps,it bounces back false readings.But it does not work anymore.

Mercury is Lethal and Toxic.I have 1st hand experience,I worked with it for years untill it Poisened me.

So please do not handle it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It will slowly kill you.

Heath kit

Edited January 13, 2004 by GEO*Trailblazer 1

1.4k · January 13, 2004

I'm not sure of how the jammer that Desert Warrior was speaking of works or if there is a way around it for the cops or not. I do remember growing up that my father had this little tube of mercury that his father gave him under the car seat. It was said to throw off RADAR. Not sure if it was true or not.

Quite simple really. Acquisition radars are pulse radars. Speed radars are Dopplar radars. To fool a Dopplar radar, all you need to do is force it to see a different Dopplar - hence a different speed.

There is a bit more to it, like the radar needs to send the signal a "radar mile" which is one mile out and one mile back. The jammer only needs to send the signal a regular mile. Because of this, if the jammer is only 1/2 as powerful as the radar, it will still jam it. To be fool-proof, you need about 10 dB more energy to fully capture the radar receiver. But 3 dB more will be effective in jamming.

The key is to do the Dopplar math. You must know the number of hertz frequency shift per MPH for the radar band, then multiply that by the number of MPH you want to send out. You modulate the gunn-diode transmitter at that frequency, and the receiver thinks you are going XX MPH.

It takes (at least in my toys) one gunn diode for each band. The size of the diode cavity is what derermines the operating frequency. Larger cavity = lower frequency. K-band cavity is much smaller than X-band cavity.

Gunn diodes are expensive, and low-powered. But with careful antenna design, (horn feed) you can reach powers in the 2-3 watt ERP range. More than enough - along with the other advantages of the transmitter only need, to overcome most systems.

The infra-red laser systems work the same way, only using light rather than RF energy. For me, the laser system is the most difficult - I am much better at RF.

Hope I didn't bore most of you.

EDIT: PLEASE NOTE - working with microwave energy and LASERs, even infra-red lasers, can be dangerous. It can cause brain damage and blindness if you do not understand what you are doing. If you attempt to repeat what I have done, you assume all risks associated with this.

After thinking it over, I am tempted to delete this message. But I guess I will let it stand - you assume all risks involved with any electronic-RF-light experiments you decide to try after reading this.

Edited January 13, 2004 by Desert_Warrior

2.1k · January 13, 2004

I do remember going through the RADAR class in California and we even had some non military going through it with us. They told us that CHP (California Highway PAtrol) was certified by sight. Meaning that they could tell how fast you are going by watching you and it was alowed in court. They were suppsoedly trained to within 1 or 2 MPH error margin. I do know in the middle of the class that we went off base (Edwards AFB) to a bridge over a highway and we had to guess the speeds of oncoming vehicles. We had to get it down to within a range as part of the class (to pass).

Well, my understanding is they (can) use reference points and a stopwatch.

Yes that is a way to determine and you don't have to use a stopwatch either...

Another way is following a vehicle....you pace yourself the same distance behind one and then after a certain point where you can accurately determine from your speed in the patrol car that the other is speeding and at what speed. But I wouldn't use that unless it was a very high rate of speed and there could be no argument they were speeding. Patrol car speedometers can be off like many other cars. RADAR units are to be tuned before use and during use...The units also are sent in to the manufacturer to be calibrated frequently and they receive a certificate stating it, which goes to court with the officer for those speeding fines using that unit.

2.3k · January 13, 2004

you should never get a ticket for the GPSr in the window. if it is being used as a navagational aid.. it is legitimate. i would have to do some research on states other than the north east, but most state law concerning this does not affect GPSr.

there are hundreds to thousands of things a vehicle can be stopped for. the radar detector stop is almost a personal insult to state troopers as they spend a good portion of their time battling speeders. they just want us to play "fair." lol.

just be aware that a catch all law can screw up your day.. almost all states have a "obstruction of view" law in their VTL. this means nothing, nada can be placed forward of the driver, between the driver and the windshield glass. this includes pom-poms, flowers, key chains, dice, flags and of course our GPSr. this said...

i use my GPSr everywhere i go. "Gadget Geek!" i place it in a cradle and suction cup to windshield. it is directly under my mirror and -- I belv it does not block my view. i use it as a navagational aid to be aware of what roads lay ahead. sometimes i have waypoints that show major intersetions and places of interest.

a brief disply of the knowledge of the device to any officer would probably avoid a summons of any kind.

robbie

NY Vehicle Traffic Law
Equipment --

375 (30)

30. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle

with any object placed or hung in or upon the vehicle, except required

or permitted equipment of the vehicle, in such a manner as to obstruct

or interfere with the view of the operator through the windshield, or to

prevent him from having a clear and full view of the road and condition

of traffic behind such vehicle.

that is the one catch all, and most states have it.

use common sense and know how to explain the navigational aid you are using. for you radar dodgers... you are on your own.. i don't think i could even explain that one away.. lol.

Wowza... I drove through VA, NY, and the states in between in August coming from B'ham to NYC. GPS was on a suction-cup mount the entire drive. Didn't have a problem, but that catch-all is good to know about!

January 14, 2004

i'd be pretty pissed if a cop with a radar gun on his dash board pulled me over for a gps blocking my windshield. nj is about to pass a "hands free cell phone" law, i'm sure they'll find a way to punish gps'rs soon enough.

1.2k · January 14, 2004

If they end up with a ticket, make sure they log this cache!

Why is that a virtual anyway? Shouldn't that be a locationless?

Or - since those are banned - is it OK now to post locationless caches and call them virtual?

1.2k · January 14, 2004

i'd be pretty pissed if a cop with a radar gun on his dash board pulled me over for a gps blocking my windshield. nj is about to pass a "hands free cell phone" law, i'm sure they'll find a way to punish gps'rs soon enough.

If handsfree cellphone use in cars should be outlawed, there should be a law against talking in cars in general. Not to mention against driving with kids in the back.

January 14, 2004

Radar detectors are legal in Colorado. I have one and it works like a charm.

They are illegal in Virginia (I grew up in VA). No stores sell them and most online businesses state they will NOT ship a radar detector to any address in VA.

I am betting most cops have no idea what a personal GPS looks like and he legitimately thought it was a radar detector. At least they got to explain to him what it was and he didn't give them a ticket for some 'obstruction of view' crap.

:bad:

2.7k · January 14, 2004

Since it's a Magellan, there is no need to keep it in the window. Just tell your parents to keep it on the console, perhaps in the cupholder.

For that matter, since it's a magellen, tell them to put it in the trunk. At least the smell wouldn't be so troublesome....

And it will STILL have a good signal!

1.3k · January 14, 2004

I heard on the radio today that the US federal govenrment has decided it is not an invasion of privacy for police to stop drivers at any time, anywhere, for no reason. Local police chief in my town was quoted saying it will be a good thing. They can set up roadblocks to stop people and get you for all kind of BS stuff.

As far as radar detectors go, after my last speeding ticket, I shelled out $45 for a radar detector and it has saved me a few times already. It's amazing that with all the crime going on, the police still find time to rid the streets of the foul scourge of drivers going 9 mph over the speed limit. :bad:

K40 makes an "undetectable" radar detector that has two antennas, front and rear, that hide behind the bumpers or grille. The display consists of three LED's that are carefully inserted into the car's instrument cluster, and the piezo elements go behind the dash for the beeps. It must be professionally installed, and costs several hundred dollars, but it works so well K40 promises to pay any speeding tickets you get for the first year after your purchase. I installed a couple of these and they really are fantastic. Nothing to see in the windshield, and super sensitive antennas.

1.1k · January 14, 2004

"I am betting most cops have no idea what a personal GPS looks like"

Why are you betting that? You'd be surprised at the number of GPS units in squads these days. Every patrol squad in my dept has GPS mounted, that's about 1000 squads. In fact, I don't know too many depts in my area that don't have GPS. They're hooked into their in-car computers for the mapping program. Every crash we handle is documented on the crash report by lat/long coordinates. Everyone one of our SWAT guys carries a GPS. GPS has rapidly become an effective and practical LE tool.

from another post:

"It's amazing that with all the crime going on, the police still find time to rid the streets of the foul scourge of drivers going 9 mph over the speed limit."

Let's see, a quick synopsis, from making stops for relatively minor speeding I have arrested:

2 murderers;

a counterfeiter with $250,000 in phony money;

a drug courier with 4 gallons of PCP;

Thousands of unlicensed drivers;

Thousands of people wanted on criminal warrants.

Bad guys speed too.

Pulled Over For A Gps In The Window?

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