Staying Warm In Winter

December 28, 2003

I searched the past forums and can find nothing about proper clothing for winters (in Michigan). If anyone knows of one can they post the link here? I know very little about dressing for winter hiking/caching. I have been reading alot about the whole layering thing and I'm a little lost. Any recommendations on how to dress to stay dry and warm as well as where to buy it all?

9.4k · December 28, 2003

Shouldn't your wife take care of keeping you warm?

Oh, you mean on the trail...

Dress in layers. Jeans aren't very warm by themselves.

It's also a bad idea to cache in the nude in Michigan in January.

December 28, 2003

You know...I've been meaning to have a little talk with her about that...

Maybe I should suggest a nude cache together and see where it takes us...

Truthfully, I wouldn't be caught dead on a nightime nude cache in the middle of the summer in the shape I'm currently in. The holidays have not been good for me. My father has taken to calling me "Buddha Boy" (no offense to anyone out there!)

Now, back to the question. I understand layering is good but with what? I still have the same old long johns I got in back in the day. Now I read about all this new stuff that "wicks away moisture" . I hear about fleece and stuff like that.

9.4k · December 28, 2003

Silk, believe it or not, is good at wicking away moisture. Besides its insulating properties, the moisture-transfer capabilities of silk makes it the perfect base layer for your layering system. Check out the Performance Underwear selection at Cabelas. They've got a great selection and decent prices. They'll send you a giant catalog if you join their mailing list.

4k · December 28, 2003

I wear fleece longjohns under my overalls (shut up, smurf-boy), and thermal socks. Also wear flannel shirts over fleece, and nice thick coveralls (when it gets really cold). The most important is a good stocking cap, as you lose 80% of your body heat through your head (90% for me, as my hair ain't as thick as it used to be).

Most people talk about keeping hydrated during the summer heat, but it's equally important during the winter. Regardless of how low the temp is, if you are active,you will sweat. And, you exhale moisture with each breath. Colder temps make your breathing deeper, causing more moisture to be exhaled. If I remember from my paramedic class, you can exhale up to a gallon of fluid in 8 hours.

Clean clothes will keep you warmer than dirty clothes, as the dirt tends to take up the "potential" space in cloth, which is what holds pockets of warm air, which is why layering is the best choice over one really heavy coat.

Did any of that help? Did any of it make sense? Oh, well.......good luck!

9.4k · December 28, 2003

Did any of that help? Did any of it make sense? Oh, well.......good luck!

Someone's going to report this to CO Admin, both of us actually helping in the same thread... ...and even being on topic!

4k · December 28, 2003

Did any of that help? Did any of it make sense? Oh, well.......good luck!

Someone's going to report this to CO Admin, both of us actually helping in the same thread... ...and even being on topic!

Oh, that can't be a good thing!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

December 28, 2003

One of the most important things for me is keeping my feet warm and dry. Even if the rest of me is toasty, if my feet are cold and wet, I'm miserable. A good pair of wool socks is great insulation plus is great at wicking away moisture. My favorite socks are Smartwool socks (can find them at REI or just about any good sporting goods store). Also a good pair of boots that are waterproof, or at least treated with a waterproofing agent. And I agree about silk as a base layer. I have a pair of "high tech" silk longjohns that I swear by.

December 28, 2003

Don't wear anything made from 100% cotton. Once cotton gets wet, it will take forever to dry and will suck your body heat away like an Oreck vacuum as seen on TV. Cotton kills.

I like a first layer of polyester long underwear. The newer versions don't seem to pick up as much body stink as the older versions and they feel better next to the skin. The second layer is a medium weight polyester fleece pullover. If its really cold, I'll have medium weight fleece pants or another layer of heavier polyester long under wear. I have a final outer layer of nylon or nylon/goretex pants and parka shell. I mix and match depending on the temperature and activity. I also like surplus military wool pants and sweaters because they're warm as hell and usually shed snow well. I wear two layers of socks - an inner lightweight polyester with a wool or wool-blend heavy outer sock. Boots to suit the occasion - skiing, slogging through mud/snow - as long as they're waterproofed and comfortable. Gloves also to suit the occasion as long as they're warm and dry. Mittens for real cold.

The key is to add layers before you get cold and shed layers before you sweat. Its also nice to have clothing with zippers so you can fine-tune and regulate body heat that way rather than shedding/adding a layer. Arm pit zippers on parka shells are good for that.

Don't forget the hat. A lot of body heat goes out the top of your head (among other things).

Any good outdoor store should have what you need. Expect to pay more if it has a Gucci outdoor label on it (e.g. North Face, Patagonia, etc.). Having a Gucci label probably means its really good but not necessarily better. Shop around.

edit: forgot the glove part

Edited December 28, 2003 by astheravenflies

December 28, 2003

Keep an eye on Goodwill, second hand stores and consignment shops. At least around here (central Iowa), they often have used-but-good "Gucci" stuff for next to nothing (the adult sizes dont seem to move as quickly as the kids stuff). Ive found the the shops near the local university are great for this stuff.

December 28, 2003

All of the above advice is great. I especially agree about keeping your feet warm, as I too suffer from cold feet equals cold me. Another important variable is wearing a hat. Something like a stocking cap (tuke) works good. It is a fact of life that about 90% of your body heat is lost through your head. So, even though you may get a bad case of 'hat hair', you'll stay a lot warmer. I also believe that a good windproof layer on the outside is critical. I actually use a Goretex jacket and pants, which also have the benifit of being waterproof, but breathable.

December 28, 2003

Dittos on all the above, and I would add a set of gaiters to keep the snow out of your boots. Also, take some snacks on the trail with you, it takes a lot of energy just to stay warm.

December 28, 2003

I searched the past forums and can find nothing about proper clothing for winters (in Michigan). If anyone knows of one can they post the link here? I know very little about dressing for winter hiking/caching. I have been reading alot about the whole layering thing and I'm a little lost. Any recommendations on how to dress to stay dry and warm as well as where to buy it all?

I see from your finds that you must live in West Michigan. I also live in W. MI. Are you not a native Michicacher? If so staying warm be in your genes. If not you may need help. Polypro is a good choice, but expensive. Goretex is good but really expensive. I dress as I do most of the year but when it gets really cold (below 20), I add to my winter jacket an insulated vest, an insulated pair of carhartt bibs, Lacrosse pack boots rated to -100 degrees, gloves with space glove liners. All of this allows me to take off pieces when I start warming up and put them back on when I get cold. I would concentrate on keeping your Head (ears too), Hands and Feet warm and dry. These three areas need attention to allow you to stay comfortable. Removing your hat when you get hot will help cool you down. Exposed head and ears will cause you to lose the most heat. Lately our winters here haven't been that bad, so some of the above may be overkill and only needed when it's extreme outside.

Oh yeah, avoid alcohol when you need to be outside. Sugar is your friend in cold weather.

December 28, 2003

Don't know why my message posted twice. Sorry

Edited December 29, 2003 by Tiwica

December 29, 2003

Most of what I would have said has already benn posted, but I do want to stress layering when out in the cold. The reason for layering is more than just keeping warm - it's also so that you can keep from getting overheated when working in cold weather. I learned long ago that when I'm hiking in the hills, I sweat, and sweat a lot. Being able to remove layers and not sweat so much inables me to stay dryer, and more comfortable when I stop working and put the layers back on. I have actually gone all day in the hills wearing not more in the way of warmth than long underwear and pants on my lower half, a t-shirt and flannel shirt on top. You can get really heated when working in the hills in weather that's in the 20's.

38.2k · December 29, 2003

Most of what I would have said has already benn posted, but I do want to stress layering when out in the cold. The reason for layering is more than just keeping warm - it's also so that you can keep from getting overheated when working in cold weather. I learned long ago that when I'm hiking in the hills, I sweat, and sweat a lot.

I have to agree with layering. Too many people throw on a t-shirt and a heavy winter jacket and head out. That might be OK for going to the supermarket, but when going into the woods, it can get you in trouble.

My typical outfit for winter hiking/snowshoeing/geocaching is:

Bottom:

Polypro long underwear

Heavy wool pants/ or fleece pants with nylon shell pants

Top:

Polypro longsleeve undershirt

Coolmax Turtleneck

Fleece shirt (lightweight for most/ heavyweight for very cold weather)

Fleece vest

GoreTex shell

Fleece neck gaiter

Feet:

polypro sock liners

medium weight wool socks

Various footwear depending on conditions and activity.

Hat:

Wool cap or 'bomber style' hat

Hands:

Lightweight gloves, or heavy ski mittens depending on activity and temps.

In pack:

Down jacket

Thick fleece jacket

Extra dry clothing.

And above all, remember that cotton kills

Edited December 29, 2003 by briansnat

December 29, 2003

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their advice here. Although I am a native Michigander, it's been awhile since I've had a good excuse to spend extended amounts of time oustide in the colder weather. Going sledding doesn't really count as I usually just throw on some longjohns and jeans and go until it gets cold.

GPSaxaphone...Thanks for your link to Cabela's....although it cost me over $100 bones today! I don't know how my wife is going to keep her hands off me in all my new silk threads....LOL!

So, I got the silk layer as far as socks, and long underwear/undershirt goes. I got a good pair of wool socks to go over those. A new, warm cap and scarf. I already have a good pair of waterproof boots and I have a nice wool sweater.

Now I'm just debating on the outwear (coat and pants). I'm liking the parkas with the fleece that zips out...seen a couple of mentions on fleece in these posts.

Not sure on the pants yet. Jeans seem to get wet and heavy so quickly. I'm going to do some searching for the Carhartt bibs Tiwica and I will also take a look at the Smartwool socks.

Again, thanks to all. I think I got some good advice.

9.5k · December 29, 2003

Did any of that help? Did any of it make sense? Oh, well.......good luck!

Someone's going to report this to CO Admin, both of us actually helping in the same thread... ...and even being on topic!

Alright! The both of you break up this this ... go back to your corners and when you come back to the center; have your dukes up and ready to pummel!

:unsure: .oO(Must be a blue moon coming up or something...)

4.5k · December 29, 2003

Regarding hydration, I read somewhere that spacing out your water intake reallly oesn't make a difference; that you can take more upfront and you're body will "last" just as long as if you took a little at a time.

Is this true? Anyone have some real facts on this?

Tks. Alan

38.2k · December 29, 2003

For inexpensive polypro, Coolmax and other synthetic underwear, check out Sierra Trading Post.com . Look into the closeouts for really good prices. I just bought 2 Coolmax t-shirts for $5 each.

Edited December 29, 2003 by briansnat

4k · December 29, 2003

Regarding hydration, I read somewhere that spacing out your water intake reallly oesn't make a difference; that you can take more upfront and you're body will "last" just as long as if you took a little at a time.

Is this true? Anyone have some real facts on this?

Tks. Alan

It doesn't make too much difference, except on comfort level. To take as much water "up front" as you would need for a strenuous hike would most likely cause cramping and a lot of discomfort. The deciding factor in that also, is how many "potty" breaks you take. True, those will mostly expel waste, but after a point, will prematurely deplete your hydration reserves, and you would need to replenish them. So, it's still better to drink as you go, so to speak. :unsure:

2k · December 29, 2003

I think what Alan2 is refering to is a technique called saturating.

You drink till you are full, potty as required. Repeat till your urine is clear and you feel really full. Stone age cultures used this method to cover great distances without carrying a lot of water.

The idea is to be fully hydrated before you start hiking. Otherwise it could take a liter or two just to "catch up", never mind replace the water you lose through respiration and perspiration.

I couldn't find the link but the Sierra ski patrol web site has a phrase to the effect "The best dressed corpses (in the sierra) are wearing cotton."

1.7k · December 29, 2003

I can't agree more with what has been posted, I loved Brian Snats list of what he wears, very helpful. Definitly avoid cotton at all costs, once you get wet/sweaty it will suck the heat off your body. Learn to wear layers it really helps. Make sure to carry snacks and water no matter what time of the year

Also go to REI and EMS and talk to the staff, all to often the staff participates in similar sports and will have great reccommendations on what type of gear to get. I loved the prices at Sierra Trading Post, some really good buys on great gear if watch the sale items.

Also check out this link: http://www.rei.com/online/store/LearnShare...egoryId=Camping

Its a great resource that REI provides, look at "10 Essentials"

4k · December 29, 2003

I think what Alan2 is refering to is a technique called saturating.
You drink till you are full, potty as required. Repeat till your urine is clear and you feel really full. Stone age cultures used this method to cover great distances without carrying a lot of water.

The idea is to be fully hydrated before you start hiking. Otherwise it could take a liter or two just to "catch up", never mind replace the water you lose through respiration and perspiration.

I couldn't find the link but the Sierra ski patrol web site has a phrase to the effect "The best dressed corpses (in the sierra) are wearing cotton."

I see now. I thought he was suggesting downing a couple gallons of water at the car before venturing out into the woods! Your explanation cleared that up for me, thanks!

2k · December 29, 2003

Just came back from walking the dog and realized I didn't see any body mention headbands. I loves these, they keep my ears warm but my head stays cool.

December 29, 2003

All good advice. Just one more thing. Exert yourself at only about 60% of your capacity. This will ensure that you don't sweat too much.

4k · December 29, 2003

All good advice. Just one more thing. Exert yourself at only about 60% of your capacity. This will ensure that you don't sweat too much.

I don't know what 60% of my capacity is, though. :unsure:

December 29, 2003

"The best dressed corpses (in the sierra) are wearing cotton."

This couldn't have painted a more clear picture....Point WELL taken!!!

2.3k · December 29, 2003

Whatever you do... do not come to Florida!

We got enough snowbirds as it is...

Can't drive anywhere, can't go out to eat anywhere, forget going to a movie. Its a good thing there's geocaching!! :unsure:

2k · December 29, 2003

Whatever you do... do not come to Florida!

We got enough snowbirds as it is...

Can't drive anywhere, can't go out to eat anywhere, forget going to a movie. Its a good thing there's geocaching!!

That presents a whole other solution to winter caching. I like it!

You don't drive a Grand Marquis do you? :unsure: Seems every time I go to Florida somebody in a Grand Marquis cuts my off, or runs me off the road.

2.3k · December 29, 2003

That presents a whole other solution to winter caching. I like it!

You don't drive a Grand Marquis do you? Seems every time I go to Florida somebody in a Grand Marquis cuts my off, or runs me off the road.

Yep! That was me! :unsure:

Dern tourists!!!

December 29, 2003

Wool socks are nice, they stay dry. Smart wool is a good brand.

2k · December 29, 2003

That presents a whole other solution to winter caching. I like it!

You don't drive a Grand Marquis do you? Seems every time I go to Florida somebody in a Grand Marquis cuts my off, or runs me off the road.

Yep! That was me!

Dern tourists!!!

Seriously, do you see an increase in cache finds during the winter down there? I know a couple of full time RV's that Cache and follow the sunshine, wondering if they are enough to cause a spike?

BTW: I bought my Father-in-laws Grand Marquis from the estate when he passed away so there is one less Ford in the sunshine state. Nothing like cruising from FL to NV in a boat.

2.3k · December 30, 2003

Seriously, do you see an increase in cache finds during the winter down there? I know a couple of full time RV's that Cache and follow the sunshine, wondering if they are enough to cause a spike?

BTW: I bought my Father-in-laws Grand Marquis from the estate when he passed away so there is one less Ford in the sunshine state. Nothing like cruising from FL to NV in a boat.

Absolutely! I know alot of snowbirds that come down who geocache.

Oh an about your dad-in-law's car... sorry about that ding in the left rear quarterpanel... That was me too!

Edited December 30, 2003 by Doc-Dean

2.3k · December 30, 2003

Wool socks are nice, they stay dry. Smart wool is a good brand.

I would recommend avoiding the Mad Cow brand! :unsure:

2k · December 30, 2003

Wool socks are nice, they stay dry. Smart wool is a good brand.

I would recommend avoiding the Mad Cow brand!

Cow = leather

Sheep = wool

I know the whole wool topic could be confusing to a Florididian, what the heck do you call a resident of Florida? ( Retired?)

RE: ding, you don't have blue hair do you?

December 30, 2003

Whatever you do... do not come to Florida!

We got enough snowbirds as it is...

Can't drive anywhere, can't go out to eat anywhere, forget going to a movie. Its a good thing there's geocaching!!

Ah dont ya just LOVE the "season" ?

December 30, 2003

I was wondering why cotton was bad, This thread answered that. I went shopping for winter gear after reading this thread today. I don't usually like wearing stuff on my head, I ended up picking up a variety of headgear to see what I can stand.

A friend that does a lot of outdoor activity also stressed layering. Even your hands, light gloves that fit into heavy mittens. He says mittens will do a better job then gloves and the light gloves will allow you to do things you need your fingers for without completely exposing your hands.

December 30, 2003

Lone Duck hit it on the head. I work outside all year round and it sounds crazy but being able to take layers off when you start sweating is the key. As far as your feet staying warm I picked up a pair of Browning rubber boots with 2000 grams of thinsulate in them. I hunted all year this year in them and my feet never got cold once.

2k · December 30, 2003

I froze my, well it was cold between the car and house tonight. We're expecting 6 to 8 inches in the lower elevations, 1 to 2 feet higher. Chains and/or snow tires required any way you go to get out of town.

I'm starting to think the real solution is Florida caching. Can I stay with you Doc? My hair looks a lot nicer than Sparky's. Well what there is of it anyway.

4k · December 30, 2003

I froze my, well it was cold between the car and house tonight. We're expecting 6 to 8 inches in the lower elevations, 1 to 2 feet higher. Chains and/or snow tires required any way you go to get out of town.

I'm starting to think the real solution is Florida caching. Can I stay with you Doc? My hair looks a lot nicer than Sparky's. Well what there is of it anyway.

My hair looks fine! Both of them!

Oh, and it's going to be in the mid 50's here tomorrow, so I'm gonna try to double my find count! WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! So long as the pain meds hold out, anyway!

2.3k · December 30, 2003

Wool socks are nice, they stay dry. Smart wool is a good brand.

I would recommend avoiding the Mad Cow brand!

Cow = leather

Sheep = wool

I know the whole wool topic could be confusing to a Florididian, what the heck do you call a resident of Florida? ( Retired?)

RE: ding, you don't have blue hair do you?

Floridians come in 2 varieties:

Transplant - Most Floridians got smart and moved there from some god-awful cold place in the north

Crackers - Born in Florida

Thus, I am a transplant but my 1 yr old is a cracker! :blink:

The Blue hairs are a subspecies of the Transplant group. Something about how sunscreen mixes with the hair chemicals or maybe its that the women applying the color have cataracts and can't see color... it baffles the mind! :mad:

2.3k · December 30, 2003

Whatever you do... do not come to Florida!

We got enough snowbirds as it is...

Can't drive anywhere, can't go out to eat anywhere, forget going to a movie. Its a good thing there's geocaching!!

Ah dont ya just LOVE the "season" ?

I have grown very fond of Easter though!! Bye Bye Snowbirds!! :blink:

2k · December 30, 2003

So I'm thinking we re-visit FLA with a new thread next June "Staying cool in 200% humidity" . That will make us desert dwellers feel better.

This discussion does highlight an on topic point. While the Wisconsen gang is shopping for wolly underware, Doc-Dean is adding a sweat shirt and maybe a windbreaker to the normal attire. It's all about know what is necessary for your area.

2.3k · December 30, 2003

I froze my, well it was cold between the car and house tonight. We're expecting 6 to 8 inches in the lower elevations, 1 to 2 feet higher. Chains and/or snow tires required any way you go to get out of town.

I'm starting to think the real solution is Florida caching. Can I stay with you Doc? My hair looks a lot nicer than Sparky's. Well what there is of it anyway.

As long as you don't bring overalls!! :blink:

Doc-Dean is adding a sweat shirt and maybe a windbreaker to the normal attire. It's all about know what is necessary for your area

Don't even need that much... Fort Myers was the nation's hottest spot yesterday and predicted to be it again today!

Just bring your swimsuit and suntan lotion... The pool is fine!!

Edited December 30, 2003 by Doc-Dean

December 30, 2003

Doc-Dean is adding a sweat shirt and maybe a windbreaker to the normal attire. It's all about know what is necessary for your area

Don't even need that much... Fort Myers was the nation's hottest spot yesterday and predicted to be it again today!

Just bring your swimsuit and suntan lotion... The pool is fine!!

Near 80 here on the Space Coast. Gotta love it. :blink:

2k · December 30, 2003

I seem to remember these;

being pretty popular down there.

2.3k · December 30, 2003

I seem to remember these;
[photo snipped]

being pretty popular down there.

LMAO!!!

I saw somewhere wearing one today!!

December 30, 2003

UnderArmour makes a line of clothing to help you out in the different seasons.

I wear a HeatGear t-shift under my bullet proof vest in the summer and it keeps me in a tolerable temperature range.

The company also sells ColdGear. I don't have any cold gear but if it works as well as their other product then I'd highly recommend it.

They're expensive though. A ColdGear t-shirt will set you back around $34

I purchase my UnderArmour clothing at Dicks Sporting Goods.

December 30, 2003

bottom line: lots of layers, doesn't have to be expensive, no cotton.

Staying Warm In Winter

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