The language of Geocaching.....

November 2, 2003

I was thinking about the language of Geocaching tonight. I post all of my caches in English as most poeple do. Tonight someone found one of my caches and they posted their find in French. I noticed the Geocaching web site was in English and a few other languages, but not French.

I'm saying this because I live on the border with Quebec and have hidden many caches in this area, but there have been VERY few finds on them and very litle GC activity at all. I'm thinking this is probably because the web site is not in French, but what do you guys think?

1.4k · November 2, 2003

Dude...thats not a real tattoo is it?

"Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!"

24.7k · November 2, 2003

If may not spread there as fast due to French but once it hits it will become popular just like everywhere else.

Those who speak French as their primary language will probably list and log in French.

In my opinion your French loggers should of posted their log in English if they could since that's what you listed in. Adding a French translation to the log would also be ok.

November 2, 2003

100% real.

http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=62160219&p=1

November 2, 2003

quote:
In my opinion your French loggers should of posted their log in English if they could since that's what you listed in. Adding a French translation to the log would also be ok.

I'm with you on this one. Posting your log in the same language as the cache has been listed in seems to be only polite in my opinion....

2.5k · November 2, 2003

You should just delete the log. They might be posting spoilers.

2.3k · November 2, 2003

Cool Tattoo! Just keep you fingers crossed that GC.com doesn't go the way of Napster!

--------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

November 2, 2003

Even if GC goes the way of Napster ( we can't predict the future, can we?) I still want this tattoo to remind me of game that touched so many people in so many ways.

November 2, 2003

Multilingual logs are fun. Most Czech caches are listed in Czech and English, so the cachers can log their finds either in both languages or at least one of them, but even the folks whose active English is not so good usually post something like "We find cache ok" and a full log in Czech. Then there are some Germans finding Czech caches and logging them in German+English or German+Czech, which is sometimes really funny (no offense meant, wait until I'm back in CZ and start logging Saxon caches in my poor German).

If you have a lot of French speaking visitors, maybe you should make a basic description in French, and also translate the hints with [english] and [french] sections.

Czech caching in US.

2.1k · November 2, 2003

I attmepted a few caches in Germany. One had bilingual description, the other didn't. I ended up finding neither. I think one was because of my bad translation...the other one somehow I botched the math (absolutely no idea how either). If I had logged, it would have been in English on both though. I simply don't know enough German well enough to have logged and said what I wanted to say in German.

There are websites that handle simple translations well enough to get the point across so, I don't feel bad for making someone go one extra step in the name of globalization (same as if they only left the description in German). If I know the language, I'll use it though...just because there wouldn't be any reason *not* to.

--

Arrr, there be smurfs ta smurf.

2.6k · November 3, 2003

Most caches in Finland have descriptions at least in English. In many cases also in Finnish. I think I've seen only couple caches with Finnish-only description. IMO, having one common language in the cache pages helps the international cachers a lot when caching abroad, and since Groundspeak happens to be from the US, English is quite natural choice for that common language.

As of logging in different languages...I prefer mostly English myself, but have logged in Finnish sometimes too. In my opinion it's up to the one who writes the log. If (s)he feels insecure abot his/her language skills, who am I to demand English or any other language from him/her?

Sure, sometimes cache logs are fun to read, sometimes even important. For example, if the previous finder notices something dangerous near the site, it would be more than desirable to log it at least in English. But generally the logs in different languages just tells us about the versatility and richness of the vast geocaching community.

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

November 3, 2003

I am logging in German and English on German caches, if doing international caches, I am logging in English - unless I should happen to be able to log in the native language of that cache.

Think it is nice to log at least in English as this is the most common language used and people from abroad are encouraged to try their luck on "vacation caches"

November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:
Most caches in Finland have descriptions at least in English. In many cases also in Finnish. I think I've seen only couple caches with Finnish-only description.

<cut>

Sure, sometimes cache logs are fun to read, sometimes even important. For example, if the previous finder notices something dangerous near the site, it would be more than desirable to log it at least in English. But generally the logs in different languages just tells us about the versatility and richness of the vast geocaching community.

I have to secod that. Just exchange Finland with Norway and Finnish with Norwegian.

I find it a bit frustrating with caches with description only in a language

I dont understand. Have only looked at them on the web (some Dutch ones atleast),

and even if I can read and understand some of it, I am sure I have to miss some of the details

describing the cache, area etc... This being an international activity I find somewhat

strange (or even a bit rude) to put out cache-pages only in your local language.

Logs...well not all are equally fluent in writing English, but a short 'Found easy, cache OK'

should be doable for all(in adition to al lengthy log in local language .

As someone else noted, the Czeck cachers ar good at putting an additional short comment in

English in their logs. Enjoyed that as I cheched out the caches around Praha before heading there

last May (unfortunately my GPS got stolen few days before departure so caching got a bit amputated).

Would think the problem is greater outside the USA, or?

How about English vs. Spanish in USA?

Are there many cache descriptions/logs in spanish?

hbrx.

38.2k · November 3, 2003

How about if the rest of the world just learns English and forgets about their silly languages.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

1k · November 3, 2003

English is the universal language of international aviation and commerce, and is the predominant language of geocaching, but I would hate to see any kind of requirement to use English or any deletion of logs that are not posted in English. I would also hate to see any kind of "local language" requirement imposed for caches in countries where English is not commonly used.

I appreciate the extra courtesy cache hiders and finders display when they post multilingual cache pages and logs, but I certainly don't think I have a right to expect it. Geocachers should remain free to post cache pages and logs in the language(s) they choose.

worldtraveler

[This message was edited by worldtraveler on November 03, 2003 at 08:47 AM.]

2.3k · November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
How about if the rest of the world just learns English and forgets about their silly languages.

We are all lucky not be speaking Manderin Chinese, which is the most spoken language in the world...

--------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

3k · November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
How about if the rest of the world just learns English and forgets about their silly languages.

Yes. A fine idea.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
We are all lucky not be speaking Manderin Chinese, which is the most spoken language in the world...

Myself happy be writing English.

November 3, 2003

Not seeing the problem. Surely all Canadians speak English...

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:
Not seeing the problem. _Surely_ all Canadians speak English...

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

Keep in mind this is Canada your talking about. Most people can speak english, but are they willing to speak it is another question completly! The French / English debate is VERY political.

November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:
Not seeing the problem. _Surely_ all Canadians speak English...

On the Left Coast, there are many people who speak neither English or French. In the city I live in, many children that are born in Canada cannot speak any English whatsoever when they enter grade 1. Our city has a 59% ESL enrollment in elementary school. In Canada, we call this Multiculturalism.

French Canada is a whole other issue. As Inspector Gadget noted, just because they can speak English, doesn't mean they will, or will even respond to English. It has been a political hot potato for decades...

____________

Gorak

I love frogs. They taste like chicken. Yum.

"Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been passionate, rebellious, and immature." --Tom Robbins

2.3k · November 3, 2003

I vote we make Klingon the official language of Geocahing. It is so lovely the way it just rolls off the tongue.

Remember, wherever you go- there you are!

November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Gorak:

quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:
Not seeing the problem. _Surely_ all Canadians speak English...

French Canada is a whole other issue. As Inspector Gadget noted, just because they can speak English, doesn't mean they will, or will even respond to English. It has been a political hot potato for decades...

You would think we could find better things to put our energy towards. I have met many French people who refuse to speak English.

The Quebec Language Police are a whole other issue!

November 3, 2003

Briansnat wrote:

quote:
How about if the rest of the world just learns English and forgets about their silly languages.

The way the U.S. is going we better learn Spanish.

As I see it, if you want to visit another country, learn enough of their language to get by.

If you're going to live in another country, learn the language period!

Maps?!? I don't need no stinking maps! I got coordinates!

There's a fine line between Geocaching and mental illness, I'm just not sure which side of the line I'm on!

2.6k · November 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodbutcher68:
As I see it, if you want to visit another country, learn enough of their language to get by.

If you're going to live in another country, learn the language period!

LOL, guess you'll (and most of other people) never come visit Finland then.

According to you I should have never visited France (all I can say merci and another word starting with mer), Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Thailand, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Russia, Czech republik, Slovakia or Estonia. At the best I know some 30 words of languages spoken in those countries. More likely only few.

OTOH, I probably manage to buy beer in every one of those countries. Maybe that's enough to get by.

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

3.8k · November 3, 2003

quote:
...and another word starting with mer...)

That would be merlot, right?

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

November 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Insp Gadget:

Keep in mind this is Canada your talking about. Most people can speak english, but are they willing to speak it is another question completly! The French / English debate is VERY political.

Yep, I know. Just being silly...

---

Remember what the dormouse said...

November 4, 2003

G'day mates! As an Aussie living in the States I have found NO US-based caches written in Australian. This means I have to laboriously translate the English description/hint into Australian, and then I have to write my log entry in English. Usually I ask my wife (a US citizen) or my kids (dual citizens) to edit my entries to assure English accuracy.

It is times like this when a Babel fish would be real handy!

OzGuff

38.2k · November 4, 2003

quote:
G'day mates! As an Aussie living in the States I have found NO US-based caches written in Australian. This means I have to laboriously translate the English description/hint into Australian, and then I have to write my log entry in English. Usually I ask my wife (a US citizen) or my kids (dual citizens) to edit my entries to assure English accuracy.

Carn! Don't cut up rough. I never realised that. Whilst creating my cache pages, I guess I do favour my own language and my pages are coloured with that prejudice.

Now excuse me whilst I put on my daks, stop in the W.C., then and go out to put some petrol in my lorry. I'm about to go on holiday with my mates. We're gonna get some vegemite and bangers (I love the flavour) and throw some Fosters in the boot before we go. G'day!

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on November 04, 2003 at 05:08 AM.]

November 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OzGuff:
G'day mates! As an Aussie living in the States I have found NO US-based caches written in Australian. This means I have to laboriously translate the English description/hint into Australian, and then I have to write my log entry in English. Usually I ask my wife (a US citizen) or my kids (dual citizens) to edit my entries to assure English accuracy.

It is times like this when a Babel fish would be real handy!

OzGuff

Eh? I hear ya! Being Canadian eh, makes it hard to translate those eh pages into Canadian and then back into English eh!

1.2k · November 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Insp Gadget:

You would think we could find better things to put our energy towards. I have met many French people who refuse to speak English.

The Quebec Language Police are a whole other issue!

They May not be refusing. I am a Franco-Ontarian with many relatives still living in Québec, I have yet to meet anyone who refuses to speak english who can. Many just aren't comfortable in English.

________________________________

That's no Moon, That's a space station!

November 4, 2003

FYI: About 4M people (13%) only speak french in Canada.

November 4, 2003

au chaque ses propres

How do the Angels get to sleep when the Devil leaves his porch light on?

November 4, 2003

The above was "To each his own" translated from English to French via Babelfish.

Translating back, using the same method results in "with each the its clean ones"

Go figure.

How do the Angels get to sleep when the Devil leaves his porch light on?

2.7k · November 4, 2003

Playing with Babelfish can be fun if you got some time to kill and you are bored. Just put a quote from a book in and start translating back & forth. Good for a few minutes of chuckling until cache fever sets in.

As in:

To play with Babelfish can be diversion if him to begin a certain time to kill and he they perforate to him. It puts citations only one of a book inside and begins to translate them the shutdowns the other way around and next. Good by some minutes to laugh until the fever of the place that hides it fits inside.

---------------------

It wasn't me.

3.8k · November 4, 2003

quote:
We're gonna get some vegemite and bangers (I love the flavour)

(And I thought, all this time, you were a gentleman of good taste!)

Brian, I've been to Australia, and I've eaten vegemite,...uggghhh!

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

November 5, 2003

Multi-lingual caches are very nice and underline the global nature of geocaching. Being the the only real world language, there should be at least some English in cache descriptions. I was very disappointed by all the Dutch-only caches while visiting Holland recently.

Cache descriptions in a local language only means fewer visits to the cache. That's normally not why people set up caches, is it?

Using a foreign language in a log posted in an English-language cache is downright rude, methinks.

Perfect English skills are certainly not needed. These days, more non-native

English speakers learn English to communicate with other non-native English speakers than there are native English speakers communicating with other native English speakers, and there are more non-native English speaking English teachers than native ones. Ugh. I have told.

Mostly Moose

1.2k · November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mostly Moose:
These days, more non-native

English speakers learn English to communicate with other non-native English speakers than there are native English speakers communicating with other native English speakers, and there are more non-native English speaking English teachers than native ones. Ugh. I have told.

Mostly Moose

I feel kind of Dizzy.

________________________________

That's no Moon, That's a space station!

2.5k · November 5, 2003

The frogs never got over the fact that theirs is not the International language.

1.2k · November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
The frogs never got over the fact that theirs is not the International language.

Is this an appropriate post? I don't mind discussing the issue but do we have to use hurtful terminology?

________________________________

That's no Moon, That's a space station!

November 5, 2003

On a recent trip to the UK I found some caches and logged them using the king's English.

FL geocaching    www.cacheflorida.commy stats         www.keenpeople.com

November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
The frogs never got over the fact that theirs is not the International language.

That is a pretty ignorant and bigoted statement.

____________

Gorak

I love frogs. They taste like chicken. Yum.

"Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been passionate, rebellious, and immature." --Tom Robbins

November 5, 2003

quote:
Just keep you fingers crossed that GC.com doesn't go the way of Napster!

Veering off topic here, but I just noticed a brand new billboard on Sunset Boulevard for Napster.com This is the Strip where the most expensive billboards are, with 3-D effects and animation. If they are advertising there, they are paying for it. Wonder what they are up to?

Ever notice how anyone that caches more than you do is a maniac, while anyone that caches less than you do is an idiot? -Dru Morgan

2.5k · November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Gorak:
That is a pretty ignorant and bigoted statement.

____________

Gorak

I love frogs. They taste like chicken. Yum.

That's funny!

1.2k · November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

quote:
Originally posted by Gorak:
That is a pretty ignorant and bigoted statement.

____________

Gorak

I love frogs. They taste like chicken. Yum.

That's funny!

Gorak is funny because he is referring to an Animal not a group of people.

________________________________

That's no Moon, That's a space station!

2.5k · November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Halden:

Gorak is funny because he is referring to an _Animal_ _not_ a group of people.

I was referring to frogs.

5k · November 5, 2003

What about Esperanto? Maybe caches should be cross-posted in Esperanto.

Jamie

November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:
The frogs never got over the fact that theirs is not the International language.

Dude, that's just down right rude and very, very wrong.

November 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

quote:
Originally posted by Halden:

Gorak is funny because he is referring to an _Animal_ _not_ a group of people.

I was referring to frogs.

Yea, right. Justify it any way like, but its pretty obvious your remark was a offensive and bigoted slur against the French and not green amphibians. The fact that you think its ok is says a lot.

____________

Gorak

I love frogs. They taste like chicken. Yum.

"Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been passionate, rebellious, and immature." --Tom Robbins

21.9k · November 5, 2003

Halden and Gorak have done a fine job of moderating this thread... it is always preferable for the community to be self-moderating. Stepping in as the referee, this is a friendly nudge to return the discussion to the posted topic... what language to write cache logs in. No more off-topic posts are needed.

|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|x*x-x|

Keystone Approver, Geocaching.com Admin

"Eschewing Entropy and Ensuring Enthalpy in the Groundspeak Forums"

5k · November 5, 2003

Oh heck, since this has gone so far off-topic, I might as well ask:

Forgive my ignorance, but I've never considered "frog" to be anything more than a slight poke at the French, not unlike Yankee is to Americans, or more specifically, Americans from the north.

Is there some historical significance to make it taboo to say the word in public? Frankly, it sounds pretty harmless to me.

Jamie

[edit] In light of KA's comments posted at the same time as my post, I retract my questions.

The language of Geocaching.....

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