Child Unfriendly?

1.4k · September 2, 2003

quote:
Geocaching.com states that caches with knives
or other 'dangerous' items will not be approved.

Let me first state that the two approvers that typically approve caches here are Erik and MtnMan. Both of these volunteers do a great job and have offered me guidance and suggestions when I have inquired to them with questions. Also, both of these gentleman live within my geographic part of the country, where people do carry and use pocket knives. I have a feeling that they know of the usefulness of such items and how someone such as my 12 year-old son would love to find a cheap "flea market" pocket knife in a cache. With that said, this cache:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=251cc567-958b-4acd-9a7f-4929c49b7427

was approved this weekend and guess what? The cache contains a pocket knife. My intent is not to get anyone in trouble, as my son wants to be the one to trade for the knive, but the point I'm making is that many caches which list knives as part of their content are approved.

Do the persons that don't want knives in cache also not keep sharp knives in their own kitchens?

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 2, 2003

Once again, it's not the fact that the geocaching community find a knife in the cache rather the group of hooligans stumbling across the knife or matches and causing more trouble. Now I realize I live in a more urban area and the chance of a cache being unearthed is greater than other rural areas. It just seems why wait for trouble to occur but rather try to be proactive about it and stop it before it ever happens. Everyone sits on thier duff and waits for something to happen before acting on it.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

1.4k · September 2, 2003

quote:
Everyone sits on thier duff and waits for something to happen before acting on it.

You're gonna have to trust me, but as a law enforcement officer, the least of my worries is someone finding a cheap, flea-market knife in a geocache.

However, we are all entitled to our opinions. I think most "hooligans" wouldn't be very impressed with a $1 penknife found in a geocache, much less be able to cause too much trouble with it.... By the way, how are you going to keep the "hooligans" from picking-up rocks which they may throw at windows or passing automobiles?

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

[This message was edited by jeff35080 on September 02, 2003 at 06:32 PM.]

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Rocket Pack:

quote:
Originally posted by Xitron:

Sweet that means I can start removing all the items I disapprove of, McToys, cheap stickers,

little jars of bubbles, and anything else I don't like. Thanks man you rock!

read it again, items deemed inapropriate (by GC.com) not just cause I think it's junk. If there is a knife in a cache I will remove it, no doubt about it. I will try to contact the owner and give them the option of picking it up of they want it back. You have a good idea with leaving the gift cert. instead of the actual item. Very cool idea!!

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

AGAIN I MUST QUOTE WHAT THE MAIN GC.COM PAGE STATES "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal.

That is off the main page, not some faq, I haven't read a faq in years just the main rules. If it has changed then I need to read it there. As for knives with a one inch blade if you cut yourself you will learn not to do it again, it won't cause lasting damage and may give you a little more respect for sharp objects in the future. If it does cause permanate damage then you are probably a great canidate for the Darwin awards. look it up on http://www.darwinawards.com

September 2, 2003

Team woodsters stated "Might as well leave some ammo and a gun in some caches. Someone that hunts or target practices could use them".

What I want to hear is how they equate a less then a one inch knife to a fully loaded gun? Can you try to make it more extreme?

2.1k · September 2, 2003

Xitron, let me point something out to you. You said it doesn't say knives. I see the page you are referring to. But if you look at the first paragraph it will tell you to check out the FAQ. Matter of fact they even made it a nice little link to it. Read the FAQ, especially down about midways where it says "What shouldn't be in a cache". You will notice the word knives in there.

My point on the gun and ammo was to the fact that a gun is no more harmful than a pocketknife if properly used and trained as a pocket knife. But we wouldn't put one in the cache would we? Do you not think that small pocketknife could not cause that much injury or even death? That would be like saying a .22 couldn't kill someone. If put in the right place, either one will. The whole thing is not about cachers searching for caches. It's about kids or others that stumble across it and either use it for intentional reasons or an accident happens. No weapons should be placed in a cache at all. GC states it. It's their rule.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

4.1k · September 2, 2003

TRADE-NOT STEAL=SIMPLE

Shirley of 2oldfarts

*******************************************************

Human beings can always be counted on to assert with vigor their God-given right to be stupid.--Dean Koontz

7.2k · September 2, 2003

I approved the cache and I missed it.

Jeff, you may feel free to shoot me in the arm if I can make it over to the picnic you guys are planning! I will email the cacher and see if he will take it out of the cache.

September 2, 2003

y point on the gun and ammo was to the fact that a gun is no more harmful than a pocketknife if properly used and trained as a pocket knife.

Are you fing kiding me!!, any idiot can pull a trigger and kill someone, but killing someone with a one inch blade is going to take much more training and skill then any one who finds it has. I have never heard of the perfered weapon of an assisign being a one inch pocket knife, have you? I think you need a reality check.

September 2, 2003

Ok I finally read the FAQ and it does state "Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache." But until it does state it on the main page it is only a suggestion, not the rule. So prove me wrong as the main web page states "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal.

September 2, 2003

So if I want an adult cache I should place it in such a place no families would get it?

7.2k · September 2, 2003

This is a family site. I'm glad and I hope it stays that way. Just keep the caches so anyone can find it and there will be no problems with what they find inside. You should create caches so that if a child finds them then they will find nothing objectionable in it.

September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:
This is a family site. I'm glad and I hope it stays that way. Just keep the caches so anyone can find it and there will be no problems with what they find inside. You should create caches so that if a child finds them then they will find nothing objectionable in it.

Then I object to McToys.

7.2k · September 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:
You should create caches so that if a child finds them then they will find nothing objectionable in it.

Then I object to McToys.

Your a child!?!?!

2.1k · September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Xitron:
Ok I finally read the FAQ and it does state "Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache." But until it does state it on the main page it is only a suggestion, not the rule. So prove me wrong as the main web page states "Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal.

That's actually not a "main page" as you put it.

It's available reading. If you read the other page, then you would of seen the link to it and should of read it as well. But, I do agree that there needs to be one page with the information. In just these to pages we are talking about, most of the information is redundant and then there are some differences. It would be less confusing if it were all on the same page or at least had the same info (i.e. 2 different pages with 2 different lists of banned items).

As far as the adult cache thing, well that is a question. One would say to use common sense and basically like mtn-man stated, you shouldn't leave anything that a child could find. But, some people will argue that the guidelines do not say "no adult or pornographic material". People get squemish at the site of a condom in it's sealed package that are sometimes found in a cache.

As far as a person with a one inch knife killing someone...well they could easily slice soemones throat. Or if they did it with enough force, they could puncture a lung or other vital organs. There are a lot of factors that could happen for the different things to happen. Heck remember the guy in Utah who amputated his arm with a knife? Of course it took some time, but knives are nothing to take leisurely. A pocket knife is safe if kept in the pocket. As others stated, I've had knives as a child as well as BB guns. But I didn't have them or carry them without supervision. I never knew of any kid that carried a pocket knife. I'm 34 and am from Georgia. My High School was in the country and across the street from a cow pasutre. Our mascot was the Rebels and 99% of the people that drove to school were good ole boys that drove pickup trucks. That should tell you how backwoods it was. But again, I never knew or even heard of anyone having a pocket knife with them. If they did, no one knew. Weapons of any type were not allowed on school property. I do remember one instance that some had a hunting knife in their car and someone saw it and there was a big stink.

Just think about it as if you had a child and was playing in the woods with another kid. The other kid found the knife. Would you have any concern with your child playing in the woods with the other child, especially if the other child was weilding the knife playfully? Perhaps he was playing comboys and indians and was going to scalp. Or what if the other child was cutting branches and shaving the bark off and had not been educated on the proper use of a knife and took a big cut at the bark and your child was there. Or what if a kid found it, had it open and was running in the woods with it and stumbled on a log or rock and fell on it?

My son has a knife. It's bigger than a small pocket knife, probably a 2-3" blade on it. When he bought it. I sat down with him and went over safety of handling it and it's uses. Did he cut himself? Yes. Why? Because kids are kids and will do things they are taught not to do. Not intentionally, but they tend to do things like that. They aren't perfect.

I have no problems with knives in general. I just think that leaving them for who knows who to get, is not a good idea.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 3, 2003

I am a little disappointed with the sarcastic comments that are made throughout these replies and the silly statements like "having knives in your kitchens" or "keeping hooligans from throwing rocks". I guess I expected a little bit more of a mature attitude rather than a snippy "thanks man you rock" Someone had posted a quote saying any fool can make a rule and every fool will follow it. What kind of comment is that? There should be no rules, let people do whatever they please. Yes, You can find a weapon in just about anything, and I don't care how small a blade is, an knife is a knife and can still cause damage no matter what. Please Jeff, don't take this the wrong way but I know a few local law officers and they were a bit suprised at your comment about the pocket knife. Oh well, go ahead and flame away

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

[This message was edited by The Rocket Pack on September 03, 2003 at 06:17 AM.]

1.6k · September 3, 2003

Knives in caches are one area that I have had a hard time understanding as the definition of what folks are concerned about seems vague. A swiss army penknife key chain is a knife, so is a bowie knife. They are not the same class. I find these kind of key chain knives regularly. I asked before if there were actual rules regarding this and got the same sort of silly responses we see here.

The point is that the "rules" are not enforced at anything approaching consistency. This is why I have begun suggesting that we encourage local groups to start defining rules and teaching new players. The rules are easier to enforce when Bob breaks the rule and has to answer to Steve and Mary as opposed to the vagueries of GC.com.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/

1.4k · September 3, 2003

quote:
I will email the cacher and see if he will take it out of the cache.

No!!!! Leave it as it will be another one my son can get

quote:
but I know a few local law officers and they were a bit suprised at your comment about the pocket knife

I'm glad to know that the crime level in your area is low enough that the local authorities can concentrate on knives in caches. Maybe next we can start worrying about broken glass on the edge of the road.....

Let's face it, the world is a dangerous place. I'm no statistician but I bet the odds are greater that a child stands a better chance of falling and skinning their knee or getting hurt on a broken bottle while getting out of a car to go cache hunting than the odds of them getting hurt by a knife in a cache. I doubt that any excaped convicts or work-release inmates are going to get too excited over a small knife in a geocache, after all they let the work release inmates use a slingblade which is a heck of a lot sharper and more dangerous.

I found a cache this weekend. While writing in the log book I slipped a bit, since I was on a steep hill. The pen that was supplied in the cache could have easily stabbed me. Do we need to remove all pens from caches?

People need to be responsible for their own children and stop expecting the government or GC.com to take care of them.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

[This message was edited by jeff35080 on September 03, 2003 at 06:52 AM.]

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

I'm glad to know that the crime level in your area is low enough that the local authorities can concentrate on knives in caches. Maybe next we can start worrying about broken glass on the edge of the road.....

Yes, our crime rate is low, maybe because they do consider small pocket knives to be a threat. Not that they concentrate on it but certainly don't put them on the "we'll get to it later" shelf.

quote:
The pen that was supplied in the cache could have easily stabbed me. Do we need to remove all pens from caches?

LOL! You could have easily fallen on a stick, let's move all of the caches out of the woods

quote:
People need to be responsible for their own children and stop expecting the government or GC.com to take care of them.

You are absolutely correct but repeated again, I am more concerned with kids who are not supervised finding a knife or matches in a cache and causing damage. It is unfortunate that too many people do not take responsibilty for thier kids actions. In those cases it's nobodies fault but the parents.

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

1.4k · September 3, 2003

they do consider small pocket knives to be a threat

Thank God I live in locale where a pocket knife is not considered a threat.

You could have easily fallen on a stick, let's move all of the caches out of the woods

That's very true... maybe someone should complain to TPTB about the dangerous location of some caches.....

I am more concerned with kids who are not supervised finding a knife or matches in a cache and causing damage

I know that you have a genuine concern, which is good, but the odds are that a kid will most likely pick up a rock and throw it at something long before finding a cache with a knife of matches in it....

It is unfortunate that too many people do not take responsibilty for thier kids actions

Agreed

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
My point on the gun and ammo was to the fact that a gun is no more harmful than a pocketknife if properly used and trained as a pocket knife. But we wouldn't put one in the cache would we? Do you not think that small pocketknife could not cause that much injury or even death? That would be like saying a .22 couldn't kill someone. If put in the right place, either one will.

No one would put a gun in there because there are federal, state and local laws that pertain to the purchase, possession and carry of a firearm. A few places even restrict ammo types. Unless you're leaving an automatic knife you might be faced with violating a specific point of law. Not quite apples-to-apples, which I believe was the point of Xitron's post.

I agree that a trained person with a lockback knife can do as much or more damage, but I do not agree with the GC rule regarding small pocket knives in caches. However, it's not my game.

--------------------

This space for rent! Ask about our easy layaway plan!

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Thank God I live in locale where a pocket knife is not considered a threat.

I wish we could all be as lucky

quote:
I know that you have a genuine concern, which is good, but the odds are that a kid will most likely pick up a rock and throw it at something long before finding a cache with a knife of matches in it....

That may be more true than most people would like to admit, would like to see it kept that way for all to enjoy this sport. Of course as the popularity of the game increases so are the chances of caches being found by people just looking for them to rape the contents, GeoPirates

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

2.1k · September 3, 2003

I would that no one would put a gun in a cache. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point was that a knife can be just as dangerous as a gun. Whether by a trained indivual or someone who doesn't know any better on accident.

It's also not a matter of legality as a one inch knife doesn't fall within most restrictions within fed, state or local laws. The idea is safety. I don't by the prisoner thing. That was bogus. But the land manager had their concerns about it and are in control of it. If we only had to worry about cachers, then I don't see a problem with it at all.

don't get me wrong. I'm not against the knives at all. I'm against carelessness. I do believe that there are plenty of caches out there that a knife would be a good trade item. But there are plenty that see a lot of traffic around, especially children that these type of things do not need to be in. I think with this in mind, the blanket rule is a safe bet for GC.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

6.4k · September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mckee:
No one would put a gun in there because there are federal, state and local laws that pertain to the purchase, possession and carry of a firearm. A few places even restrict ammo types. Unless you're leaving an automatic knife you _might_ be faced with violating a specific point of law. Not quite apples-to-apples, which I believe was the point of Xitron's post.

I agree that a trained person with a lockback knife can do as much or more damage, but I do not agree with the GC rule regarding small pocket knives in caches. However, it's not my game.

Actually, you very well MAY be violating laws by leaving a knife. Many of the parks near me have signs prohibiting them in the park (no, I don't know where they draw the line between a weapon and a butter knife, do you?), and in many places it's also against the law to sell/give a knife to a minor without parental permission, and it is illegal to provide a weapon to a felon. Since you can't control who is going to find the cache next, you may very well break several laws by leaving even a $1 swiss army knife clone. I always used to leave knives. Even left a few exacto knife sets in caches. Now geocaching.com says no. So I don't. If people didnt have such a $#$% hard time following rules, we wouldnt have so many #@$%% rules to follow!

"(Mopar is) good to have around and kick. Like an ugly puppy" - Jeremy

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Of course as the popularity of the game increases so are the chances of caches being found by people just looking for them to rape the contents, GeoPirates

So far I could understand your side of the subject at hand. I don't agree with it but I could somewhat understand it....

Are you now saying that we shouldn't have pocket knives in caches because some lowlife like GeoPirates who stalk caches might come raid the cache? Aren't these pirates adults? Should we only leave McToys for the GeoPirates? Aren't some McToys a choking hazzard

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Are you now saying that we shouldn't have pocket knives in caches because some lowlife like GeoPirates who stalk caches might come raid the cache? Aren't these pirates adults? Should we only leave McToys for the GeoPirates? Aren't some McToys a choking hazzard

They may very well be adults, but from the cases of pirating I have seen on the forums they don't seem to be "adult" by any sense of the meaning. Frankly I don't geocache for what items are in it, but just to find the cache. I have no problems with mctoys or stickers or even stupid friggin marti gras beads that seem to be the rage in my area. LOL, I guess they should be removed to because I'm sure they could be used to strangle someone . I understand everyones idea of having the freedom to be able to place a knife or whatever. I just don't have to agree with it

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

1.4k · September 3, 2003

guess they should be removed to because I'm sure they could be used to strangle someone

That is very true.

I just don't have to agree with it

Ain't America great?

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Ain't America great?

Couldn't have said it better. In what other country could you hide ammo cans in a park....ok maybe Iraq

Can I have a loan, I'm low on cache!!

3.2k · September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
Well, geocaching.com DOES hate handicapped children...j/k...

Ain't sarcasm wonderful! (Even when it deoesn't make sense.)

3.2k · September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
Well, geocaching.com DOES hate handicapped children...j/k...

Ain't sarcasm wonderful, even when it doesn't make any sense?

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

quote:
Originally posted by mtn-man:
You should create caches so that if a child finds them then they will find nothing objectionable in it.

Then I object to McToys.

Your a child!?!?!

I don't think it is children objecting to the knives...they are adults wanting to impose their hang-ups on others and using the topic of "children" to hide behind.

September 3, 2003

Maybe I am naive, but shouldn't parents be supervising their children?

Obviously, if the cache is hidden in, or very near, a playground or schoolground people should be using common sense in what they leave in the cache. In other areas, children should ALWAYS be under supervision. There are a lot worse dangers lurking out there for children than a 1.5" pocket knife. If you choose to let your kids run around unsupervised, don't blame others if they get into trouble. Your kids are your responsibility, not mine.

__________

Gorak

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Your kids are your responsibility, not mine.

Amen!!!! I am so tired of people that expect others to take care of their offspring. It's not the government's responsibility, nor GC.com's

I am just can't imagine escaped convicts finding a geocache and plundering the cache for the el-cheapo pocket knife that is often left in a cache. I can, however, see how happy my son is when he finds one of these cheap ($1-$2) knives in a cache and thinks he really has found a treasure, even if it's a piece of junk

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 3, 2003

Perhaps I will stop trading multi-tools that include a knife and start trading multi-tools that include cutting tools.

Paw%20Print.jpg

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Perhaps I will stop trading multi-tools that include a knife and start trading multi-tools that include cutting tools.

Nah, keep leaving the cool multi-tools with the blade. Just make sure that there are no broken bottles or jagged rocks near the cache, as these can be quite dangerous

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:
I don't think it is children objecting to the knives...they are adults wanting to impose their hang-ups on others and _using_ the topic of "children" to hide behind.

So when my opinion differs from yours or others it's a "hangup". Ok, sounds pretty close minded to me but hey that's what makes the world go round. I wish I could stop hiding behind my kids, I have to mow the lawn!!!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Cache me out dammit, I'm in a hurry!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.

-Thomas Jefferson

[This message was edited by The Rocket Pack on September 03, 2003 at 03:49 PM.]

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Baloo&bd:

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:

Well, geocaching.com DOES hate handicapped children...j/k...

Ain't sarcasm wonderful, even when it doesn't make any sense?

It would make sense if you were aware of the thread he refers to. But, that was another heated discussion.

September 3, 2003

GC.com put thier page together to limit thier liability, they would spend all thier time in a court because some idiot doesn't realize a knife has a sharp edge or perhaps coffee is hot and they might spill it in their lap when they are looking at thier GPSr while walking through the woods.

And yes it is a hang-up if your going to take one word (knife)off a web site and expand it to include any item with a blade. I wouldn't put a Gerber Gator in a cache (I'd keep it for myself, I'm selfish that way) But I see absolutely nothing wrong with a small multi-tool that has a tiny blade. Yes that's my opinion and it's America, we can agree to disagree, but when you try to impose your opinion over mine, you exceed your rights. I've spent over 20 years in the military defending everyones rights, not just a select few who feel they have the right to impose thier ideas on others.

If you want to make the world safe please continue your crusade. But if you belive the world will be a better place if we don't have a knife in a cache, your a bit idealistic and need to wake up. In the middle east they teach their pre-school children about guns and how to shoot people, and we are arguing over a little blade on a multi-tool. I'm sorry I have little tolerance for extremists.

If some criminal (Sorry Chris) wants to cause you harm, they will find a way. I'd say ask the ex-priest in Mass, but it's too late.

Guns and knives and ropes and any inanimate object can not harm you. The individual wielding that object intent on causing you harm is what you have to fear.

I'll pass the soapbox on to someone else now

[This message was edited by Romad_Pilot on September 03, 2003 at 07:00 PM.]

September 3, 2003

[This message was edited by The Rocket Pack on September 03, 2003 at 05:27 PM.]

September 3, 2003

Gerbers rock, but I'd never leave one in a cache, just like I will not leave a Bowie in a cache.

September 3, 2003

What about a butter knife? Can a butter knife be put in a cache? It can also be fatal. I might take it home and use it to put a bunch of fatty butter on some toast, causing my arteries to clog and harden leading to a massive heart attack. Dead, because I picked up a butter knife from a cache.

1.4k · September 3, 2003

I understand TPTB wanting to limit their liability, and I most likely would also in their place. However, (theres *always* a however..) Caching is a family sport...family meaning that parents are expected to monitor their children. Most jiffymarts sell pocketknives at the counter. I don't think there is a male I know that doesn't have one in their pocket at this moment. It's hardly an inaccessable tool.

September 3, 2003

I can't buy an empty, harmless rifle at Walmart without jumping though hoops but my 6 year old grandson can buy a cutlery set in housewares.

As a cub scout, on meeting days and pack meeting days, it was required to wear the uniform in school. Part of the uniform was the pocket knife hung from the belt by a clip. One day I had saved enough money to buy an official scout hatchet. I took it to school the day of a den meeting. Nobody made a big deal of it. The homeroom teacher knew of it. Kid's are still responisible enough to do this. Its the irresponsible adults that have tolerated the bad kids instead of kicking their butts out of school and the parents too busy working towards a coronary rather than supporting their kids in scouting.

Steve Bukosky N9BGH

Waukesha Wisconsin

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Its the irresponsible adults that have tolerated the bad kids instead of kicking their butts out of school and the parents too busy working towards a coronary rather than supporting their kids in scouting.

Amen! I'm an assistant scoutmaster and was my son's Cub Scout Den Leader... all the young men I have had the pleasure of being around for all these years have been around all kinds of sharp tools and never once have we had a problem. Getting that Whittlin' Chip card and Boy Scout carry card is a pretty important part of a Scout's life. As I posted earlier in the thread, almost every guy I knew in high school carried a pocket knife... never once did any of us attempt to harm another with these tools. Today's society is one where many people feel as if they must be protected from themselves. I am of the belief that persons must be responsible for themselves. I guess that's why I don't have a problem with a knife in a cache. Yes, the knife could be used for evil, but only by an evil person. The knife, itself, is an inanimate object and like a firearm is only a tool. Anyways, the debating about it is fun. I doubt I'll change anyone's mind, but I am willing to listen to the 'other side'.

Oh yeah.... 73 Steve de W4JEF

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Funny you should mention that ol wittlin chip. It bagan as a Toting chit. A chit beling a permit of sorts, used by old salts, toting meaning to tote, or carry. I to am an old scout. To this very day I try to live by and gauge others by the Scout Law.

George, Eagle class of 76

September 3, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbukosky:
......Its the irresponsible adults that have tolerated the bad kids instead of kicking their butts out of school ......

Quite right. In fact, I would venture that those same "adults" would have a problem with you even calling the BAD children "bad."

One of the most damaging trends I see in this country is the lack of maturity into adulthood. One of the ways it manifests itself is the "adult" trying to be liked all the time which is not possible while making decisions that go against the desires of the kids to have immediate gratification. So, instead of [gasp] diciplining children, they seek a resolution by skulking off to musty rooms and meeting halls and feigning bravery by attacking innanimate objects like knives...which they proudly proclaim they have "no tolerance for."

September 3, 2003

I cache with a 5 & 9 yr old. They have scrambled up cliffs and been belayed via rope and waist harnesses back down. Both can and have under supervison started camp fires all on there own using pocket knifes for whittling their initial kindling. So whats the big deal? Teach them how to use the tools they'll need.

I'm as protective and any parent but don't see this as an issue.

PS: their both my daughters. But that makes no differance. They'd both snub a dollar store knife in preferance for a neat toy item knowing they each have better knifes either attached or within their cache packs.

[This message was edited by Camper1 on September 03, 2003 at 10:09 PM.]

1.4k · September 3, 2003

I'm as protective and any parent but don't see this as an issue.

I am willing to bet that the majority of people don't really see it as an issue either. Of course a lot of people do try to follow the guidlines as they are written and the FAQ does say no knives, but apparently there are a lot of rebels out there as many of the caches I have visited have had small knives in them. My son loves to find them. It's amazing how happy a two or three dollar knife can make a young man feel when he finds it.

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

1.4k · September 3, 2003

Worst trubble I ever got into with a knife is when I carved my love for Debbie on the bleachers in Jr. High.

1.4k · September 3, 2003

when I carved my love for Debbie on the bleachers in Jr. High

I never did that with my knife but did profess my love of Dawn to the world by carving our names in the top of a desk with a metal pocket clip off of a ballpoint pen

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Child Unfriendly?

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