Your Thoughts on Counting Coup...?

8.4k · October 23, 2003

First off this poll belongs in the TB forum and that's where I would like Admin to move it to on Monday 10/27. I need some quick answers and this forum moves quickest.

On the subject of Travel Bugs, how do you feel about someone recording a find on a bug, in a cache, or at an event, that doesn't actually move the bug anywhere? For example- I plan on counting coup on a bug at an upcoming event. I plan to take a picture of that TB with my personal TB as proof that it has been in my posession. This idea is not new and is already in practice by some. I like it.

I am currently getting ready to place a half dozen TB hotels all around the Houston metro area. I plan to invite finders to count coup on the bugs that they can't actually help.

There are so many complaint threads in the TB forum that I hardly go there any more. Please go there if you want to complain about a particular bug. I would like this thread to be about the concept of "counting coup."

[Admin, please delete the 1st paragraph when this thread gets moved. Thanks]

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

October 23, 2003

Do you want input too? No one seems to be replying.

Anyway, I voted "I like it," even though it wasn't my actual choice. My actual choice, which wasn't an option, would be: Do what you like, they're your stats.

It seems that there's no set "must move the bug to log the bug", so, if its valid to you, I don't see why you shouldn't do it.

Would the people who answered "no" feel better if he moved it one cache away?

Pan

Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do,

Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you...

Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?"

4.8k · October 23, 2003

I don't log ones when I didn't move it. But I don't care if others log ones without moving them. I didn't vote because I didn't think my reply fit any of the resposes very well.

pika waving

3.8k · October 23, 2003

I see nothing wrong with it.

Native Americans did it centuries ago.

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:
My actual choice, which wasn't an option, would be: Do what you like, they're your stats.

It seems that there's no set "must move the bug to log the bug", so, if its valid to you, I don't see why you shouldn't do it.

Would the people who answered "no" feel better if he moved it one cache away?

Pan

You're right. I'm not asking permission. I just want to test the water.

I have 108 tb tags of my own and wouldn't mind this practice at all with my own bugs. At least I would know that my bug is still alive by the extra log of someone counting coup.

I found a bug in a field between 2 caches on Tuesday. The owner never knew the bug had gone missing until I logged it.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

24.7k · October 23, 2003

In counting coop you have to actually touch your 'victim'. Possession is the key. Find it log it drop it all in the same place. Actually it’s kinda dorky and not worthy of a true travel bug warrior.

October 23, 2003

The only problem I have with this is the effect that it has on people with that TB in their watch list. We had an event cache here that had many travel bugs visit, several of which were already in my watch list. Over the next week or so, I was flooded with notices from multiple cachers all logging "I saw it" notes in the TB logs.

October 23, 2003

WE don't log a TB unless we move it along somewhere ( hopefully to its goal).

I have to say that I had no idea that this was done until a couple weeks ago, when I read it on the MIGO site. We were planning on launching some travelers but sorta 2nd guessing that idea because I don't want them stalled at some event. I believe that the reason folks launch them in the 1st place is to see if they will go to the wanted goal, even though we understand many get lost or misplaced , ect. I guess I don't understand why someone would want to log something when they really had nothing to do with thier advancement. Doesn't sound good for the traveler, just the numbers it generates for the individual. I guess its where you put the fun in the sport, numbers or seeing it make its goal?????

it's 5 o'clock somewhere!!

October 23, 2003

A travel bug is supposed to travel. That's the point. Maybe there should be a new bug for people that want TB stats but don't want to put the effort into helping the TB with it's goal. I say we call this new bug the lazy ba$%ard bug.

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
In counting coop you have to actually touch your 'victim'. Possession is the key. Find it log it drop it all in the same place. Actually it’s kinda dorky and not worthy of a true travel bug warrior.

There was a time when I might have taken that advice to heart. Recent experience and the endless whining on the TB forum have changed my perception.

I will be posting the entire story on the TB forum within the next month or so. It will be very interesting to "true" travel bug warriors. I no longer consider myself one of those even though my own tb experiences have been 98% positive.

I think that counting coup can solve some the whining about tb goals. SOME people really have unrealistic expectations. Those same people would complain about a free lunch......

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

1.4k · October 23, 2003

Sounds like a keen idea. Can we do the same thing to the caches we didn't actually find? Sure would limit the frowny faces on my caches.

Travel being the keyword, I think it would be basically the same as logging a virtual as a find, because you once drove by the spot as a kid.

"Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!"

October 23, 2003

I'd rather they log it without moving it, then taking it, holding on to it for months, or having no intention of helping it towards it's goal, particularly when it's goal is plainly written on it.

I don't really understand why somebody would want to log a bug, just because they saw it in a cache.

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

1.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

I don't really understand why somebody would want to log a bug, just because they saw it in a cache.

Because it inflates their stats.

"Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!"

October 23, 2003

I’ve only logged a travel bug if I moved it. My thinking is that it’s a traveler and should be moved by the finder. I’ve seen travel bugs in caches and haven’t taken them, as I couldn’t help its owner’s TB goal. I never thought about logging it, as I didn’t move it. I’m not saying what you want to do is wrong, its just not how I thought the game was supposed to be played.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

October 23, 2003

Oh LERCH- I love that, good one!!

it's 5 o'clock somewhere!!

October 23, 2003

I dont understand why would you log a bug that you didnt move. It really dont make no sense, unless im missing something.Is someone actually trying to have the most tb logs.lol

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BadAndy:
Sounds like a keen idea. Can we do the same thing to the caches we didn't actually find? Sure would limit the frowny faces on my caches.

Travel being the keyword, I think it would be basically the same as logging a virtual as a find, because you once drove by the spot as a kid.

"Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!"

I couldn't disagree more. Your comment is comparing apples to oranges. It does have a great deal to do with stats though.

Spend some time in the TB forum and you may understand where I'm coming from. Many people endlessly obsess over tb goals, placement lag, mileage and lost bugs.

Counting coup is a partial solution to some of those problems. The stat hunter gets their stat if they can't help the bug. The person who can help a bug to a particular goal has/may have the bug available to them for pick-up. Either way the bug owner gets input on the life of their bug and possibly the bug spends more time in the game instead of in someone's glove compartment.

Just to make things clearer on my situation; there is a bug that I have crossed paths with on three occasions. This Saturday will be the 4th. It is destined for a cache in Austin with the person who has it. It WILL be in my possession for a short time at that event and I will log it as found and take a picture of it as proof. I wouldn't log the find any other way.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

24.7k · October 23, 2003

You can take two approaches to a bug.

Finding them is what counts.

Or moving them is what counts.

I have no opinion either way. The TB warrior comment is because if you were a true TB person you would make a point to help as many as possible. Travel bugs usually have a goal of some type and that means moving. But it also involves stories. A TB dogpile at a cache event is just more story for the bug. Some people are into finding bugs more so than caches. That's fine. It takes all kinds to make this game.

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by chris-mouse:
The only problem I have with this is the effect that it has on people with that TB in their watch list. We had an event cache here that had many travel bugs visit, several of which were already in my watch list. Over the next week or so, I was flooded with notices from multiple cachers all logging "I saw it" notes in the TB logs.

My question to you is: If you don't want to get notifications on the life of a bug, why the heck are you watching it?

You can always click on the bug from your cache page, look its reference number up, or do a key word search.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

October 23, 2003

I don't know what counting coup means so I voted for the car. I used to drive a little coupe, now I drive an MV.

I think it's great now that we can transfer title of travelbugs to other players. 108 tags? How do you keep them all straight? I had trouble keeping interest in the 16 that I had.

-mark

aka lowracer

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
You can take two approaches to a bug.

Finding them is what counts.

Or moving them is what counts.

I have no opinion either way. The TB warrior comment is because if you were a true TB person you would make a point to help as many as possible. Travel bugs usually have a goal of some type and that means moving. But it also involves stories. A TB dogpile at a cache event is just more story for the bug. Some people are into finding bugs more so than caches. That's fine. It takes all kinds to make this game.

Exxxxxxxxxactly. GeoFool, BadAndy and others, there's your answer. Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general perameters of the game. I didn't think we would get here so soon. RK never disappoints.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

24.7k · October 23, 2003

Here you go lowracer. Counting Coup

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by lowracer:
I don't know what counting coup means so I voted for the car. I used to drive a little coupe, now I drive an MV.

I think it's great now that we can transfer title of travelbugs to other players. 108 tags? How do you keep them all straight? I had trouble keeping interest in the 16 that I had.

-mark

aka lowracer

It was one of those noob impulses. I have only activated 44 and 38 of those aren't ready to go. I'm actually waiting to get my website launched before a mass release. The collective goal is to get one on all seven continents simultaneously.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

8.4k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
Here you go lowracer. http://www.wwmag.net/coup.htm

Hey,

Thanks for that link. I couldn't find anything so well worded when I did a search before starting this thread.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

1.7k · October 24, 2003

I wonder if this thread in some ways is directed towards our team? We have used the phrase *counting soup* more than once on a TB we had for a minute before replacing it in the same cache. (For the politically correct here, Tsegi Mike is Indian.)

We don't always have the ability or time to move bugs in a timely manner. The first 2 bugs we ever had we held onto for far too long. So if we don't think we will be able to move it in a timely manner, we count coup. We did after all find it. We just chose to give it a better chance with someone else. If we found it, why can't we claim it as a find in our stats? I seem to recall the log entry page says *found it* not *took it and moved it along*.

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

1.2k · October 24, 2003

Well, I'm going to say I agree with Snoogans on this one. I, too, have had travel bugs held by individuals for loooooooong periods of time before being moved on and it's not fun.

This seems to be a way in which those who are interested in travel bugs, but are NOT going to be able to actually help the particular travel bug meet it's goals, can participate in the life of the bug. I would MUCH prefer someone simply logging a "sighting" of my bug than take it and HOLD it....

It appears the rules are that you have to actually have found the bug at a cache, or an event, hold it in your hot little hand, write down the number, and then log it in and out of the particular cache or event where you found it. I see no problem with that whatsoever.

No, it does not equate to "logging a virtual because you once drove by it as a kid" as you must physically get the travel bug number off the travel bug. Therefore, you have "found" the travel bug, just not "taken" the travel bug, unless you are legitimately going to assist it in accomplishing it's "mission".

I think "Counting Coup" is a great idea, and anyone who wishes to "Count Coup" on any of my travel bugs is more than welcome to do so. If, on the other hand, you can assist the bug to it's goal, also please feel free to do so.

Oh, one of mine just recently made it to Europe, how cool is that? LOL.

"Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on."

1.6k · October 24, 2003

I once found a travel bug (the Yakima) and logged it as I moved it on. I still follow it on my watch list. Until it got to Utah, all was normal. After it got there, all bleep broke out. I started to get watch list notifications by the half dozen because it got to a local gathering and about a dozen people logged it as "having seen it". These logs should be deleted and not allowed in the future.

The game is about finding a TB and moving it to a different cache (hopefully one that moves it on the way to its desired goal.) It is not about sitting around in Provo staring at a stack of TB's so you can raise your stats.

We had a picnic in Lincoln and there were about 12 TB's that got exchanged. I took several with me to North Carolina after that. I could have logged all 12 as "having seen them at the picnic" and then logged the transported TB's as being dropped off. I could really raise my stats if I went online and looked at the TB gallery and logged all of them as "having seen them on the GC site."

Breaktrack and I disagree. It is precisely like logging a VC by drive by or logging a locationless cache via the Internet and Photoshop.

The practice is a threat to the spirit of GC and should be BANNNED!!!!!!!!!

_____________

7 3 10 13 23 36 59 95 ...

1.6k · October 24, 2003

Counting Coup is a term used to describe the act of a Lakota warrior who would strike an enemy with a stick. The number of enemies he could strike was then recounted in the stories of battle, thus the term "Counting Coup". The abuse of the watch list notification (and all of our email accounts) is not the same thing, or even close. BOO to whoever dreamed this up!

_____________

7 3 10 13 23 36 59 95 ...

2.1k · October 24, 2003

I voted about "not deciding" because I think it's a "depends on TB" situation.

TBs have goals. If the goal of a specific TB is to travel (i.e. only place me near ponds OR take me to baseball games) then you're doing a bit of a disservice to the TB starter since you're just handing it around and not actually putting it near ponds with each log or taking pictures of it at a baseball game. But some TBs have goals that could easily be attained at an event cache and do not require any traveling (for example my own TB - Super Star Beetle Bug) has the goal of being pictured with different cars. At the event cache, you could easily get everyone's cars in different pictures with SSBB and it would satisfy my goal for him, mileage be damned.

So, I think it's totally dependent on the TB and its specific goals as to whether it's appropriate to log them en masse like this.

--

http://healinghearts.freeservers.com/pandee.html

1.4k · October 24, 2003

I think logging tbs are like logging caches. You have to yield to the owner's wishes. If they don't care, do what you like. If they have an opinion, respect it.

That's my $.02

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Assimilating golf balls - one geocache at a time.

Michigan Geocaching Organization Homepage

October 24, 2003

The pages for the Travel Bugs reflect the bug being picked up and moved. Not moving the bug would "junk up" the page with a bunch of possession and drop notifications without it going anywhere. It's not really designed for that. You're moving on to another cache, so why not grab the bug and travel with it? That's the whole point, to move the bug.

That Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck

When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

October 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
I once found a travel bug (the Yakima) and logged it as I moved it on. I still follow it on my watch list. Until it got to Utah, all was normal. After it got there, all bleep broke out. I started to get watch list notifications by the half dozen because it got to a local gathering and about a dozen people logged it as "having seen it". These logs should be deleted and not allowed in the future.

If it was at the recent event, it was in Bountiful, Utah, not Provo! lol. My wife and I went for the first time to the event held here recently, and this activity happened. My wife said right away, "That's Cheating!!!" I didn't have a problem with it, if others wanted to do it, but I don't think it's for me. I'll never have more finds on caches or bugs than many of the others here, and playing the numbers game is not what I enjoy about the activity anyway. I just felt like it was "all for numbers", so to speak. Hey, if other people find joy out of that, more power to them, and I am not one to try and regulate any activity that isn't going to harm the game, but It would not do anything for me, so I didn't.

"I'm 35 Years old, I am divorced, and I live in van down by the river!" - Matt Foley

October 24, 2003

If you don't make the effort to move the bug, why should you take credit??

1.2k · October 24, 2003

Okay, disregard all of the above, I'm wrong, you're right, I'm obviously trying to subvert the true purpose of travel bugs, and geocaching in general.......

How in the world can this be THAT important folks???????

Once again, I welcome anyone who wants to log my travel bugs even if all you do is hold it in your hand. If others do NOT want you to do that with theirs, then please do not. Personally I only have ONE logged travel bug that I did not move, and that was Snoogatola, which is DESIGNED to be that way. While I do not "inflate" my numbers (as if anyone really CARES) by logging travel bugs I don't move, I don't care if others do so.

In fact, I no longer care if other people place caches where they shouldn't, log caches they didn't find, put out lame virtuals, bury caches, thumb their nose at the national park service, or pirate caches.... I just don't care... it is all so petty it just makes my stomach turn.....

Of course, I'll feel better tomorrow and everything will be back to normal...lol.

"Afghanistan was a battle. Iraq was a battle. The war goes on."

1.1k · October 24, 2003

I think that each travel bug page says it best with the button that says, "Found it? Log it!"

You FOUND the bug (and got the 6 digit #), whether it be in a cache or at an event or in the hands of someone else. The fact that the system lets you either take the bug or just log it as a note, in both cases it counts in your find count, so that is pretty much the answer.

If people want to move it on or leave it in a cache, if they want to log it as a find or not, it is totally up to them, whatever they enjoy, and no one should tell them otherwise or make someone feel bad about it just because someone disagrees. If you enjoy and are having fun with the game/sport/hobby/activity of geocaching, then that is all that should matter.

8.4k · October 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
I once found a travel bug (the Yakima) and logged it as I moved it on. I still follow it on my watch list. Until it got to Utah, all was normal. After it got there, all bleep broke out. I started to get watch list notifications by the half dozen because it got to a local gathering and about a dozen people logged it as "having seen it".

My question (AGAIN) to you is: If you don't want to get notifications on the life of a bug, why the heck are you watching it?

You can always click on the bug from your cache page, look its reference number up, or do a key word search.

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
These logs should be deleted and not allowed in the future.

As the proud owner of 108 tb tags, I would be happy for the logs. The logs reflect the life of the bug. More frequent logs assure that my bug is still alive and well cared for. Please DON'T try to police MY property. If I count coup on YOUR bug, you can delete the log at your pleasure.

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
The game is about finding a TB and moving it to a different cache (hopefully one that moves it on the way to its desired goal.)

Hmmmmm, your game. (and I respect that.)

Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general perameters of the game.

My mindset: Caches are game pieces. I must visit it to log it.

Travel bugs are game pieces. I must physically handle the bug, move it, OR take a picture of it to prove possession on the short term.

My personal TB. IT represents ME/My GeoJetta for mileage. If I leave it at home (which has only happened twice) for some reason, I still log it into the cache. I HAD to be there. As mileage is concerned it represents ME. Finds on my personal TB. For a find, the TB represents itself. The finder must take a picture with the bug. Camera shy = No find. About 15% of the people who have taken pictures with it did not log the bug because they mostly can't understand the concept of counting coup.

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
I could really raise my stats if I went online and looked at the TB gallery and logged all of them as "having seen them on the GC site."

Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch! Apples and oranges from the counting coup topic being discussed on this thread.

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
The practice is a threat to the spirit of GC and should be BANNNED!!!!!!!!! mad angry

This statement is reflective of why I mostly stay out of the TB forum.

If you really feel that way, why don't you ask GC.com to edit my personal TB. The finders logs must surely contain a virus that will bring the whole site to a terrible end.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnd AGAIN:

Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general perameters of the game.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

8.4k · October 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by La Paloma:
If you don't make the effort to move the bug, why should you take credit??

Back to MY mindset: It's a game piece. This is a game. I came in contact with it, so I log it. Caches are game pieces too. What do you do when you find a cache? Do you not log it on line if it doesn't have a log book inside? Some people would say yes to that because that's their mindset.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

1.6k · October 24, 2003

To Snoogans:

I watch TB's to see where they go and if they get their mission accomplished. I get an occasional email and find it an interesting diversion in my day. When I get 10 emails about the bug at some meeting, its bordering on Spam and no longer an interesting diversion and more like a big annoyance. How about we meet in the middle and ask TPTB to not include the "I saw this one last week and want to increase my stats artificially" postings in the TB watch list notifications, then those who wish to do this can do it and not bother the rest of us with 29 postings saying the same d*mn thing.

_____________

7 3 10 13 23 36 59 95 ...

October 24, 2003

Can the owner of the TB delete the logs if they don't like the fact that someone saw it and didn't move it anywhere?? Like a cacher owner can delete a log on a cache'??

it's 5 o'clock somewhere!!

8.4k · October 24, 2003

BigRedDude,

You have 1 tb. Did someone count coup on IT? Delete those logs. It's YOUR bug.

Please don't try to police MY bugs.

I have found AND MOVED over 80 bugs. I long ago took them off of my watch list because I got tired of the email. I can click the bug link from my cache page if I want to see their progress. I often do.

I think it's funny that my personal tb gets watched. 3 People are watching it now. I'm 50+ caches behind in logging its mileage. How many people do you think will be watching it when I decide to catch it up? Is that spam? It's MY fweakin bug. Not yours. I'm the one who paid $6.50 for the tag.

In fairness, I will email the owner of the bug that I plan to count coup on tomorrow (My 1st time) and tell them to delete the log if they so desire. I will post the reply (if I even get one) and a link to the bug here. Tough nuts to anyone watching it that doesn't want to know where it has been.

Do you think the 52 counts of coup on my personal tb should be deleted? That's the way that I set it up.

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

8.4k · October 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by opie744:
Can the owner of the TB delete the logs if they don't like the fact that someone saw it and didn't move it anywhere?? Like a cacher owner can delete a log on a cache'??

it's 5 o'clock somewhere!!

Yes

Sngans

If you are not failing now and again, it's a sign you're playing it safe. - Woody Allen

2.1k · October 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:
I'm the one who paid $6.50 for the tag.

Aw, man, I got ripped off...some guy on the street sold me this one for $15 and now I'm not even sure if it's real...look, it says "Traval Buj" and it's made out of paper?!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

--

http://healinghearts.freeservers.com/pandee.html

October 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by res2100:
I think that each travel bug page says it best with the button that says, "Found it? Log it!"

You FOUND the bug (and got the 6 digit #), whether it be in a cache or at an event or in the hands of someone else. The fact that the system lets you either take the bug or just log it as a note, in both cases it counts in your find count, so that is pretty much the answer.

If people want to move it on or leave it in a cache, if they want to log it as a find or not, it is totally up to them, whatever they enjoy, and no one should tell them otherwise or make someone feel bad about it just because someone disagrees. If you enjoy and are having fun with the game/sport/hobby/activity of geocaching, then that is all that should matter.

I always use the "log it" part of the tb page to post pics that the TB owner wanted as a part of the bugs goal not to say "hey I found it but I don't feel like playing the game correctly but I want the stat anyway".

3.8k · October 25, 2003

Counting coup might mean different things to different people.

(This photo, taken by Snoogans, has appeared in other threads, and must be appropriate here.)

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

October 28, 2003

Points to Ponder:

What if someone just goes in and randomly types in bug numbers and logs them without ever seeing tham at all!?!?!?!?

What if you leave a bug, and the next person takes it and loses it, but doesn't log it and YOU get blamed for having it still?

What if you move it and a kid finds it and really loves the fact that they saw it but YOU didn't happen to advance it in the right direction and all you did was put a smile on a little kid's face!???!

What if you logged what you want and I logged what I want and we live and let live? Who cares?? Is there some prize for first place with the most "I touched YOUR bug?"

What if I see a number photoed on a tag of some bug in Timbuktu or Kathmandu or Iloveu and log it in?

OOOOHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOO so many decisions to something I thought would be a nice relaxing walk in the woods......Why does EVERYONE want to take the fun out of things??????

3.5k · October 28, 2003

quote:
Counting coup might mean different things to different people.
(This photo, taken by Snoogans, has appeared in other threads, and must be appropriate here.)

One of these days I'm going to get a compromising photo of sept1c_tank. One of these days....

-------

~ Texas Geocaching ~ Geocaching Icons - The Selector ~

October 28, 2003

Seems OK with me. I only log them when actually removing them from the cache...which is only when I can move them somewhere that helps with their goal. Don't much care whether or not others count 'finds' as having possession, as long as it does not influence the web page displaying the actual location correctly.

Have fun with it.

October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:
I would like this thread to be about the concept of "counting coup."

OK. So be it. I find the concept a little annoying, and I'll try and explain why with an example.

At a recent event in Vermont, a TB was introduced in honor of one of the cachers' 250th find. The TB was supposed to be 'passed around' at the event, and at the end of the event, various people did indeed go back to their computers and 'grab' it or pick it up from the event cache and drop it off again. Not everyone did, though, but they certainly had every chance to do so.

After a few days, the bug owner placed the bug in a traditional cache.

Fine so far, right?

Well, the bug has been picked up from the cache, logged, placed in another cache, and picked up again.

Still fine, right?

The problem is that the bug owner, so proud of her bug, is still encouraging everyone local to go "log" it.

I strongly suspect that what's going to happen is that the bug is going to be 'grabbed' from the various caches it winds up in by various local cachers at the owner's urging. It won't be physically grabbed, though, so it'll still be in whichever cache it's in. People will go to the cache and find a bug they weren't expecting, will log it, will go place it, and when they try to log the placement they're going to find it was 'grabbed' out of their inventory by another one of our locals.

To complicate matters still further, the bug was picked up today by someone who is definitely not from around here, probably traveling through on business, and will probably get dropped off again several states from here. So there's going to be this bug roaming around Indiana or whatever that always vanishes from the cache logs, and no one's going to know why.

The whole thing strikes me as a little pointless. IMHO, the bug owner should not have placed the bug in a traditional cache until she had the "hey, everyone, 'grab' the bug into your inventory" thing out of her system. Once it was released, it should be allowed to behave as a bug normally should.

-- Jay

October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Snoogans:
I would like this thread to be about the concept of "counting coup."

OK. So be it. I find the concept a little annoying, and I'll try and explain why with an example.

At a recent event in Vermont, a TB was introduced in honor of one of the cachers' 250th find. The TB was supposed to be 'passed around' at the event, and at the end of the event, various people did indeed go back to their computers and 'grab' it or pick it up from the event cache and drop it off again. Not everyone did, though, but they certainly had every chance to do so.

After a few days, the bug owner placed the bug in a traditional cache.

Fine so far, right?

Well, the bug has been picked up from the cache, logged, placed in another cache, and picked up again.

Still fine, right?

The problem is that the bug owner, so proud of her bug, is still encouraging everyone local to go "log" it.

I strongly suspect that what's going to happen is that the bug is going to be 'grabbed' from the various caches it winds up in by various local cachers at the owner's urging. It won't be physically grabbed, though, so it'll still be in whichever cache it's in. People will go to the cache and find a bug they weren't expecting, will log it, will go place it, and when they try to log the placement they're going to find it was 'grabbed' out of their inventory by another one of our locals.

To complicate matters still further, the bug was picked up today by someone who is definitely not from around here, probably traveling through on business, and will probably get dropped off again several states from here. So there's going to be this bug roaming around Indiana or whatever that always vanishes from the cache logs, and no one's going to know why.

The whole thing strikes me as a little pointless. IMHO, the bug owner should not have placed the bug in a traditional cache until she had the "hey, everyone, 'grab' the bug into your inventory" thing out of her system. Once it was released, it should be allowed to behave as a bug normally should.

-- Jay

2.1k · October 28, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Otter and Lemur:
I strongly suspect that what's going to happen is that the bug is going to be 'grabbed' from the various caches it winds up in by various local cachers at the owner's urging. It won't be _physically_ grabbed, though, so it'll still be in whichever cache it's in. People will go to the cache and find a bug they weren't expecting, will log it, will go place it, and when they try to log the placement they're going to find it was 'grabbed' out of their inventory by another one of our locals.

The people still "virtually" grabbing it and not actually obtaining it from its current cache (in the same state or not) will also place it back in that cache (by note!). Therefore, no mileage added, they get credit for seeing the bug, and the next person to physically move it will get it from that cache and drop it off wherever later as normal. No harm done.

--

http://healinghearts.freeservers.com/pandee.html

Your Thoughts on Counting Coup...?

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