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WILE E.

THE GEOPIRATE HAS LANDED IN BC, II

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The last thread with this topic was closed because the originator asked for it to be closed. But I'm interested in this conversation, and I think it has been somewhat civil. So, I'm beginning a new thread, same topic, and I ask that it NOT be closed.

 

Here was the last post to the old thread:

 

"What's the point of posting the pictures on a private / members only cache page where the majority of the users can't see them?"

 

A good point by RobertM. See here for the whole discussion.

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Thanks Wile E. I was just on my way to do the same.

 

So where were we? Oh ya..

 

Geotrekker -- if you're going to flame me, at least do it with something that is on topic. As it stands, your post is not worth more response than what I've given here.

 

Yes, RobertM's question was quite valid but in reality it doesn't matter here. I'll go and take some pictures of the pirate notes a little later and will post them here. I can assure you that I don't have a problem with people seeing them.

 

So...

 

Does anyone else have any comments about this new pirate?

 

*****

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Maybe I'm missing something, but Vancouver Transit does not appear to be a members only cache at the moment. I was just able to access it with my wife's (non-permium member) account and view all of the logs and photos.

 

__________

Gorak

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It was a member only cache last night and this morning. I received an e-mail from the cache owner a short while ago telling me that it was a temporary move -- although it beats me what purpose that could serve.

 

*****

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So, Geotrekker,

 

You had some interesting opinions about the pirates (and a few other off topic comments).

 

Care to step into Wile E.'s lair and cast your opinions once again?

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

It was a member only cache last night and this morning. I received an e-mail from the cache owner a short while ago telling me that it was a temporary move -- although it beats me what purpose that could serve.

 

*****


 

Maybe a knee-jerk? If it had been my cache that probably would have been my first knee-jerk reaction. I agree with some of the others, though. If the swag is just moved to another nearby location then it is really just a harmless prank. It is certainly an interesting new dimension to the game.

 

__________

Gorak

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I don't know the exact deal with Members Only caches is, even when I was a member I didn't utilize the option.

 

HOWEVER, when I was looking at Vancouver Transit before, when it was a members only cache, I could see the logs and the pictures, I just couldn't see the coordinates at the top of the page. Now, I'm not sure if this is somehow related to the fact that it was on my watch list prior to it being made Members Only... you figure it out.

 

Now, about the pirate, I think there is less chatter in the forums about that rascal becuase he is a kinder, gentler pirate, who is not abusive to others' caches, and who leaves a little bounty for the one who finds the booty.

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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Gorak, I don't think so. I can see making the cache temporarily unavailable, but changing it to members only seems only to stop the majority from viewing it.

 

Whatever the reason, it doesn't really matter now, as the cache is back being available to all. Thanks MrG.

 

*****

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quote:
Pan wrote:

Now, about the pirate, I think there is less chatter in the forums about that rascal becuase he is a kinder, gentler pirate, who is not abusive to others' caches, and who leaves a little bounty for the one who finds the booty.


You may have something there Pan. Seems that the new pirate (or at least the new method) is not as controversial as the original pirates (who by the way, have also changed their tactics a fair bit).

 

Could it be that the pirate concept is being accepted as a part of the game now?

 

*****

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I haven't gone back and read the thread that got shut down just yet so I'll stick to my orginal opinion for now. I don't think its entirely wrong to add a new dimension to the game, if it doesn't cause harm. Having said that there could be some problems with moving a cache, what if the land owner agreed to where the orginal cache was placed but doesn't like the fact that it had been moved. Assuming the cache stayed in the same neck of the woods that is. He could take the cache and not allow any others on the land. Just one of the what ifs. Personally if I had a cache and it was moved and a prize was added to it I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Xitron, thanks for joining in the discussion.

 

The pirate is not moving the cache from its original location -- he's placing the contents in a new container and placing that container a short distance away from the original cache.

 

When the finder locates the pirate container, they're told to return the contents to the original cache, trade if they wish, and then take the pirate container (in this case, a brand new lock & lock box) and place a cache of their own.

 

Even as a worst case scenario, the pirate cache exists only until the finder picks it up -- and then only the original cache remains (in it's original and only location).

 

Personally, I think this pirate concept is rather cool. It adds a new element to the game (that I'm sure kids would love) and it helps to get more caches placed. The cache owner is not inconvenienced by any of this either, as the cache contents are not far away and are returned to the cache by the person who finds it. The log book is left in the cache so that the finder is not forced to retrieve the contents. The pirate also gets to have his fun by creating a little mischief. All around, I think everyone wins.

 

*****

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The way you describe it it sounds like a interesting new twist to the game. I would in no way be mad or upset if I came accross a pirate plundered cache as you describe it. In fact the lil one we sometimes go with would think it a great new and exciting adventure. I don't know why anyone would have an issue with this, but I'm sure some do.

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When I go to a cache and take something, I put something of equal or greater value in. While open to the idea of new elements of the sport, I DO NOT like the idea of someone taking the contents of my cache (they haven't done it yet, and God help 'em if they do, cuz no one else will), and moving it. If I wanted it moved, I wouldn't have put it there in the first place! If I wanted it to be a 2 stage cache, I would have created it that way! I especially don't like the idea of someone from out of town, visiting on a cache trip, coming upon my cache, and finding it plundered! icon_mad.gif

 

quote:
The cache owner is not inconvenienced by any of this either, as the cache contents are not far away and are returned to the cache by the person who finds it.

 

You hope! Like I said, if I had wanted it to be a multi, I would have planted it that way. Respect the caches the way they are, and the spirit in which they were planted. If you want your caches to be plundered, have at 'er!

 

Just an opinion.

 

compass.gif Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy.

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quote:
Originally posted by cacherunner:

I _DO NOT_ like the idea of someone taking the contents of my cache (they haven't done it yet, and God help 'em if they do, cuz no one else will), and moving it.


 

I'm curious, what does that mean? Please elaborate if you would.

 

Edit: I mean with regards to the "God help 'em if they do, cuz no one else will" part. - WE

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Looks like cacherunner has put an open invitation to her caches...

 

When you ask people not to do something they'll do it. When they see how mad it makes you they'll get even more satisfaction from it.

 

Arrrr, now who on the Island is up to the task? icon_wink.gif

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cacherunner, I'm curious to know exactly why you feel that this is such a wrong thing to do? The cache is not removed, the contents are only placed a short distance away and the person walks away with a new cache container that they can use to place a new cache.

 

You mention that if you wanted the cache to be a 2 stage cache that you would have created it that way and I can appreciate this. However, it is not effecting every person that goes to your cache, only one person that is looking for your cache is being effected. From the majority of responses today, it seems that most people would like to find one of these caches that have been plundered in this manner.

 

Considering that the pirates were previously taking the entire cache away, I'd say this is a scenario that is a good compromise.

 

I'd appreciate it a lot if you could offer a response to this.

 

Thanks.

 

*****

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and God help 'em if they do, cuz no one else will

 

I nose a Pirate when me hearz one! icon_wink.gif

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I shouldn't, but I will:

 

Wile E. :

quote:
Edit: I mean with regards to the "God help 'em if they do, cuz no one else will" part. - WE

I should have followed that with a icon_wink.gif, but in a way I DO mean it. I have always been protective of what's mine, and I took the time to create and hide the cache where it is, and I have little patience for those who take or tamper with things that are not theirs. Which brings me to:

 

Robert M:

 

quote:
Arrrr, now who on the Island is up to the task?

I realize that most people will do what you tell them not to do, when they know it bothers you. I accept that. And if someone is going to plunder my cache, they will. And if it gives them satisfaction, there's nothing I can do about that. It's just a little hidden container. But I took the time to put it where it is now, and people should respect that.

 

J5:

quote:
However, it is not effecting every person that goes to your cache, only one person that is looking for your cache is being effected. From the majority of responses today, it seems that most people would like to find one of these caches that have been plundered in this manner.

Then the pirates can plunder their caches. And it's 'affect', the verb, not 'effect', the noun. Not bad, eh, Dagg? icon_wink.gif

quote:
Considering that the pirates were previously taking the entire cache away, I'd say this is a scenario that is a good compromise.

So rather than someone stealing your car outright, it would be better if they just moved it, and told you where you could find it, right?

 

If you guys don't get the concept of not taking what doesn't belong to you, trust me, I understand. It's a product of the times and the environment. I guess I was just brought up wrong.

 

PS, if you've read this far, I don't take things as seriously as you might think. It is, after all, only a game, and these fora have been FAR too boring lately, don't you agree? icon_wink.gif

 

compass.gif Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy.

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Hey you all I went through the worst of it cuase I had just updated the cache due to its poor replacement and it was plunderd that night. Now a foul up which made a good idea turn sour and partly my fault, Because I lined the bottom of the cache with magnets for more hiding places and made the cache feel full so it was not checked at the pickup point.Only half the plunder was done and we did`t know where the cache contents wentto which caused a great amount of assuming on a few peoples part including myself which made the biggest fuss.

Once I learned the rest of the story of the Cache doubling Pirate!Which is trying to create more caches for use to find by suppling the cache box. (tlock and locks aint cheap)

Alot of people don`t hide a cache cause they just dont get around to it.

This gives them the excuse to hide a cache for you and me to find so I say give the cache doubling Pirate a chance to plunder and double our hidden caches to find.

If he turns evil he most certinly will walk the plank.

 

Seekerbc

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Well cacherunner, I was hoping for a little more open minded reply but you seem to have missed most of the points and instead decided to comment on semantics rather than the playfulness of the overall concept.

 

To compare stealing a car to this, is quite frankly, ludicrous. It's not even remotely the same thing. It's a game. No one is *taking* anything here - in fact the opposite is true but you've decided to avoid giving that aspect of it even the slightest mention in your reply.

 

I am a bit curious as to what you think you *could do* if someone were to pirate your cache, either in the manner of this playful pirate, or of a person completely unattached to caching taking your cache. Seriously, I'd be interested to know how you could find this person and even give them a hope of letting God help 'em. Seems like a very unreasonable statement to make.

 

In the end however, you are completely entitled to your opinion and I thank you for giving it.

 

*****

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seekerbc, nice to hear from you. I'm glad that now you see that this pirate thing is not what you initially though it was. I know that you spent a few bucks and a lot of time preparing the new VT cache and can understand completely why you were so upset the other day when it appeared to have been gone forever.

 

I never thought of the pirates method as 'doubling' the cache, but that is true, isn't it? Good observation. "Cache doubling", hmmmm... it does seem to make it all look a lot less like a nasty thing. Thanks for your comments.

 

*****

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quote:
No one is *taking* anything here - in fact the opposite is true but you've decided to avoid giving that aspect of it even the slightest mention in your reply.

 

Yes...........they are taking something. The fact that they're putting it somewhere else is irrelevant. My principle is:

I like it where it's hidden. That's why I put it there. I don't want it moved. And I referred to that aspect several times in my posts.

 

quote:
I am a bit curious as to what you think you *could do* if someone were to pirate your cache, either in the manner of this playful pirate, or of a person completely unattached to caching taking your cache. Seriously, I'd be interested to know how you could find this person and even give them a hope of letting God help 'em. Seems like a very unreasonable statement to make.


 

If you read my reply to Wile E., you would see that the comment was intended partially in jest. You're right. If someone wants to take something of mine, there's little I can do about it. Like I said, I guess I was brought up wrong. And the first time one of my caches gets plundered, they'll all be gone. Childish, maybe. But so is taking what's not yours. I learned that when I was 2, shortly after I learned to read.

 

compass.gif Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy.

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You know cacherunner, if somone stole my car I'd be downright angry.

 

If by chance they left the keys to a new Avalance in the drivers seat when I found it 150' over I'd probably get over it.

 

Until I found it though...

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quote:
Originally posted by cacherunner:

My principle is:

I like it where it's hidden. That's why I put it there. I don't want it moved.


I am sooooooooo with you on this one!

 

Only nuts eat squirrels,

Snake

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quote:
If by chance they left the keys to a new Avalance in the drivers seat when I found it 150' over I'd probably get over it.

 

That's if they leave any seats in your car when you find it! icon_wink.gif

 

PS Thanks, Bug and Snake! I knew there was someone else out there who felt this way! icon_biggrin.gif

compass.gif Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy.

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cacherunner, Renegade Knight, and Bug and Snake,

 

So what is a solution that will make *you* happy AND allow the pirates and everyone else that wants to participate, have their fun?

 

*****

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I tend to feel more like cacherunner than Jomarac5. If somebody wants to get into a new variation on geocaching great, but either set up your own web site with its caches to be plundered, or ask admin to make a new class of 'plunderable' caches where you would be asking for this kind of activity to take place. I realize the pirate is just out to have some fun and add a twist to what must have become boring to him. However he's playing with someone elses game. To me it's seems like a childish prank - sneak into someone elses game, do a bit of mischief by adding a new search and then leave a bonus for whoever finds it. Part of what bothers me is how even good ideas can go bad as they are picked up by others who don't have the same sense of balance(take something but leave a little more) but just think it's cool to mess with the game. Although this pirate is leaving maps and offering extra booty, those that follow may not be as generous, maybe just give a useless clue and leave the stuff in a garbage bag where it ends up being found by the trash men. He has a web site after all encouraging others to follow in his footsteps. Since he hopes to make a webring of pirate sites I encourage him to add caches that people are expected to plunder and please leave any link to geocaching.com out of it.

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The cache never moves just the contents for one lucky cacher that gets a new cache box and will remeber your cache that stared theirs.

Lets have a positive look at to instead of condeming a good thought with a bad name.

Since Pirates are bad in all stories so is it in our thoughts. stero typing again

any ways just a positive thought to end the night. happy caching

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From an approver point of view, this could cause a problem. Some of the park systems I deal with are talking about banning Geocaching within their boundaries. We are working out some restrictions and regulations, as this is better then a ban in place now for 2 park systems. Now if someone goes out and moves a cache from a permitted location, to another location even if its nearby, it may be viewed differently by a warden of a park that may stumble across an unsactioned cache. When the restrictions are in place, I am going to have a placed with permission note on the page in these parks on new caches, but this may not be noted older caches that were already placed and checked by the wardens. I hope the pirates also enjoy Geocaching and respect these caches to ensure keeping our parks open to caching.

 

Cache-tech

Geocaching.com Admin

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

cacherunner, Renegade Knight, and Bug and Snake,

 

So what is a solution that will make *you* happy AND allow the pirates and everyone else that wants to participate, have their fun?

*****


 

Jomo, I think that I'm with CacheRunner, Renegade Knight, and Bug and Snake on this one. On many cache pages, I've read comments like, "would have been nice if the cache would have been someplace NEAR where you said it would be..." First of all, I think we need to be thankful that someone placed a cache there in the first place, and not flame someone on the effort (maybe a nice email directly to the cache placer would be more appropriate). Now if a cacher sets out to find a cache taken by a pirate, once they finally find it, they may not place the cache back in the original place that the cache owner placed it in. It's a vicious cycle. Then we're back to someone posting notes in your cache page, condemning you for not having the cache in the proper coordinates.

 

You ask, "So what is a solution that will make *you* happy AND allow the pirates and everyone else that wants to participate, have their fun?" I think the answer might (note I said might) be clear. Leave the caches that the person placed alone unless they have have given expressed approval for their cache to be held ransome.

 

My .02 cents.

Although it does open up an interesting twist.

 

_____

smile-l.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Cacheruner:

And the first time one of my caches gets plundered, they'll all be gone. Childish, maybe, but so is taking what's not yours. I learned that when I was 2...


 

Geez it looks like some adults (I dare mention any names - It's just to obvious who they are! They'll know who they are once they read this!) are only now learning that taking what's not their's is wrong! Like Cacherunner, I guess I got brought up the wrong way too. We had respect, values, and morales...those are scarce nowadays.

 

Where is our society going?

 

Where is the respect to another person's property?

 

I did mention that the piracy adds an intriguing aspect to the game but my opinion has now changed, due to the overwhelming amount of supporting evidence.

 

RobertM, I'm ashamed to see you encouraging the piracy. Quite frankly I would not advertise that type of an opinion. It makes you stand out way to far on this limb. (But not as far as J5)

 

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

When you ask people not to do something they'll do it. When they see how mad it makes you they'll get even more satisfaction from it.


 

- When you ask people not to do something, they'll respect it. When you ask RobertM not to do something...he'll turn around and do it. When he see's how mad it makes you he'll get even more satisfaction from it.

 

It sounds like you are speaking from experience RobertM. How were you treated in school. Or should I be asking - How did you treat others in school?

 

And Jomarac, no offence but you seem very adament about pursuing this topic. So adament that it's becoming alarming and obvious. You are standing way too near the edge of this plank and some of your 'caching peers are becoming more suspicious of you and your possible link to this piracy.

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

BTW: I visited a couple of my own caches after Zuuk called me last night and one of them had also been visited by the pirate.


 

If you visited your own caches that night and one of them was visited by the pirate, does that make you the pirate?

 

Why didn't you mention the name of the so called pirated cache? None of your cache pages show a log from you doing maintenance and "discovering" the plundered swag.

Naturally one would advertise the fact that their cache was pirated. I'm surprised to see that you didn't, but again maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

I don't steal caches. Nor do I condone the actions of those who do


 

Yet another piece of evidence...Why would you make such an irreverant remark? Like, I don't murder people but yeah I don't think that murdering people is wrong.

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

BTW: there was a second note in the pirate cache at my cache, is this the case with VT?


 

What was on the second note? Care to elaborate?

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Looks like the same note that was in my cache.


 

Really? It must be pure coincidence though...

It might look like the same note that is saved to a .doc file on your computer.

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Why is Vancouver Transit now members only?


 

Possibly to keep non members like Jomarac away from the cache to avoid a second plunder? Only a theory.

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Cachewidow, nice to hear that you see the fun in this as well!


 

In other words: Thanks for the compliment, I'm pleased you like my prank, not many people do but I should do it more often!

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

A few of your pictures were pretty fuzzy. (Ed - In reference to zuuk) The comment was valid as it related directly to the topic (Zuuk said J5 was going off topic) at hand. The poster (Robert M) was just trying to get a clearer view of the evidence (Zuuks pictures)


 

At least we have some pictures...It would be nice to have some pictures of your said plundered cache with the notes.

 

_______________________________________________

 

And so the mystery continues...

 

At least for now Jomarac, you are guilty until proven innocent in my books.

 

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

 

{Edited for consistency at 11:26 PM}

 

[This message was edited by Geo-Trekker on September 18, 2003 at 11:26 PM.]

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quote:
Geotrekker wrote:

And Jomarac, no offence but you seem very adament about pursuing this topic. So adament that it's becoming alarming and obvious. You are standing way too near the edge of this plank and some of your 'caching peers are becoming more suspicious of you and your possible link to this piracy.


Is that some kind of a threat?

 

quote:
If you visited your own caches that night and one of them was visited by the pirate, does that make you the pirate?
Apparently, you seem to think so.

 

quote:
Why didn't you mention the name of the so called pirated cache? None of your cache pages show a log from you doing maintenance and "discovering" the plundered swag.
As I mentioned, I left the cache the way it was. I don't want to ruin it for the next person that goes to get it. Why don't you go out and find out which cache it is? Then you could find out for yourself exacly how this thing works.

 

quote:
Yet another piece of evidence...Why would you make such an irreverant remark? Like, I don't murder people but yeah I don't think that murdering people is wrong.
Evidence? Conjecture at best, I should think. You should have been a detective. Zuuk mentioned nothing about a second note. My plundered cache had a second note -- it is correct to assume that the same method would be used.

 

quote:
What was on the second note? Care to elaborate?
The same thing that was on the note that Zuuk took a picture of and uploaded to the site.

 

Evidence? Are you joking me?

 

You already falsely accused one person and called them the pirate, or did you forget that already? Now you're pointing a finger a me? You don't learn very fast, do you?

 

Your posts are filled with nothing but conjecture and confrontation. Grow up.

 

Aren't you the one who got banned not so long ago for pretending to be Team KFWB (with a period) and got slapped by Jeremy for it after sending cachers in Victoria to two unsavoury locations? Why, yes you are.

 

If you want to continue with your allegations, I suggest that you put them in an e-mail, and send them to yourself.

 

icon_rolleyes.gif

 

*****

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on September 18, 2003 at 11:24 PM.]

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quote:
DocMagoo wrote:

Now if a cacher sets out to find a cache taken by a pirate, once they finally find it, they may not place the cache back in the original place that the cache owner placed it... Then we're back to someone posting notes in your cache page, condemning you for not having the cache in the proper coordinates


Doco, where did you get this idea that the cache moves? The cache does NOT move. Not an inch from where the cache placer put it. My cache that the pirate plundered was exactly where I had placed it.

 

There seems to be some confusion of how this pirate works.

 

Let me recap the pirate's method:

 

1. The cacher locates the cache that the owner placed. The cache has not been moved.

 

2. The cacher opens the container and finds the following:

- The log book

- A pencil and/or pen

- A note from the pirate

 

The note says:

 

Arrr Matey!!!

 

This cache was plundered by pirates!

 

Avast ye scurvy dog, this ‘ere’s the dreaded Captain Urchin and I gots a tale I’m urgin’ ta tell ye.

 

We sailed on me ship fer many a night when we come across this treasure and bein’ pirates and all, we had to take it with us – it’s in our blood ye see. All the booty is now hidden from ye scallywags at a nearby location.

 

We be kind enough to leave the logbook for them of ye who would rather walk the plank than go on to find the booty. But fer them of ye who still wants to trade fer the loot, ye will ‘ave to go a little farther to get it by followin’ the instructions on the back of this message.

 

Yo ho ho...

 

3. On the back of the note, is a map that leads to the pirate cache. The pirate cache is nearby (in the case of the two caches here, the loot was around 30 meters away).

 

4. After reaching the pirate cache, there is a second note that reads:

 

Arrr!!! Ye found it!!!

Ye gots to do a last deed so ye can trade fer the loot.

 

Take this here box of booty and return to the original location of the cache that it was taken from.

 

When ye gets there, take the loot from this here container and put it back in the original cache box. Then ye can trade yer swag as you normally would. Trade fair or we’ll be huntin’ ye down and sendin’ ye to Davey Jones’ locker!

 

Now ye gots this treasure box left over from Captain Urchin and we’re bettin’ that ye wants to know what to do with it – take it home, put some loot in it – and use it fer placin’ a cache of yer own. Now that’s a good seafairin’ deal ain’t it?

 

Fair winds matey, and may the sun always shine upon ye…

 

5. The cacher trades, and takes the container with them and uses it to place a cache of their own.

 

There is zero maintenance for the cache owner.

 

The cacher experiences a little adventure.

 

Another cache gets placed.

 

Nobody loses.

 

Everyone wins.

 

Where's the problem?

 

*****

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Geo-tracker, I don't encourage stealing of caches. This latest episode of pirating with VT is something that has an interesting twist which like others here I think could have potential. It opens up new things for the game.

 

Lose the attitude!

 

[This message was edited by RobertM on September 18, 2003 at 11:38 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Eclipse Chasers:

I tend to feel more like cacherunner than Jomarac5. If somebody wants to get into a new variation on geocaching great, but either set up your own web site with its caches to be plundered, or ask admin to make a new class of 'plunderable' caches where you would be asking for this kind of activity to take place. .


 

This seems a very fair solution to me. A new class that would add some spice to the game for those who are into trading, and can be passed over for those that are into the hike/place/adventure. Were I to happen upon a cache container bereft of all but a pen and logbook, I might be somewhat curious; If it were a cache I placed some time ago after carefully choosing a location, however, I might feel differently.

 

Geo-Trekker, weclome home. You were sorely missed. Come visit soon.

 

Oh yes, one more thing. "Loose" is what my ex-wife is. "Lose" is when I misplace something. No offence RobertM, but this particular incorrect usage drives me up the wall. Yes, I AM aware that it will now be done as often as possible on purpose, in order to irritate me. Fear not, as I see it so often that no more irritation can possibly be caused.

 

globe.gif How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a piece of tupperware?

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quote:
Originally posted by marinerBC:

No offence RobertM, but this particular incorrect usage drives me up the wall.


Now woh'd do semhotnig lkie taht? icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Acuracura wrote: [/b

Perhaps we've misunderstood the pirate all along. It appears the Pirate is just adding a new element to the geocaching game. Although it is rather rude to move all the contents (especially the log book) of a cache without asking the owner, it would make it a little more interesting. It kind of turns the traditional cache into a multi, whether the owner intended it to be a multi or not.

 

Instead of moving all the contents, why not just leave the pirate note and hand-drawn map so those who want to try it can go look for the treasure, and those who just want to visit the cache can do so without being disappointed. To the pirate(s), if you happen to be reading this, please consider my suggestion.


 

I wrote that in the other thread and got no replies.

 

Basically I agree with CacheRunner, Renegade Knight, Bug and SnakeWhat, DocMagoo, and Geo-Trekker. I'm not totally against this pirate thing, in fact I think it can add a nice twist to the game, however, even moving the cache contents can still anger/annoy people. What the pirate(s) should do is exactly what they're doing now except take nothing from the original cache. So set the pirate-cache nearby, go to the original cache and leave the pirate note and hand-drawn map. I don't see what the purpose of moving all the contents is except to disrespect other people's property (even though the pirate didn't mean to that is often what might happen). Or at least have the decency to ask the original cache owner first before pirating the cache.

 

I commend the pirate(s) for introducing this new idea, however, the procedure is flawed in that moving someone else’s property (regardless how close it is and what reward is given) is still disrespectful without consent.

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Please visit the Ham Radio Forums at www.ham-radio.ca. Thank you.

- VE7DPT

Vancouver, BC, Canada

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To Jomarac,

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Is that some kind of a threat?


 

Nope, just an observation.

 

quote:
You already falsely accused one person and called them the pirate, or did you forget that already? Now you're pointing a finger a me? You don't learn very fast, do you?

 

Sorry, but it seems like you're not the strongest signal in the satellite constellation.

 

Any good detective knows that he works through a list of suspects and acquits each one once he is satisfied that they are innocent or benign.

 

Unfortunately Jomo you haven't proved that yet.

 

quote:
Jomo Wrote:

cacherunner, I'm curious to know exactly why you feel that this is such a wrong thing to do?


 

Someone doesn't realise how his/her/their/its actions affect others...

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Aren't you the one who got banned not so long ago for pretending to be Team KFWB (with a period) and got slapped by Jeremy for it after sending cachers in Victoria to two unsavoury locations? Why, yes you are.


 

To reiterate that you are the weakest link, you obviously don't realize that had I been banned, I wouldn't be here with the same Geo-Trekker user name. Unless of course I was using a sock puppet account of Geo-Trekker (with a period)

 

quote:
Jomo Wrote:

You should have been a detective


 

And that I shall be

 

quote:
Your posts are filled with nothing but conjecture and confrontation. Grow up.

 

When was the last time you perused your 1015 Posts? My posts may be filled with nothing but conjecture and confrontation (If that's how you see it). Frankly, your posts are full of <EDIT>.

 

By the way, I'd like to know which of my 42 posts are full of conjecture and confronation.

 

quote:
By Jomo:

In the end however, you are completely entitled to your opinion and I thank you for giving it.


 

I thank you for your generosity, now why don't you respect my freedom of speech?

 

By the way Robert, I'm guessing your comment was directed to me "Geo-Trekker" not "Geo-Tracker" - Who just happens to be another cacher LOL! icon_wink.gif

 

Thanks for the warm welcome Mariner...I'll bee in touch soon. icon_biggrin.gif

 

The attitude and anger (although not intentional) is all a reaction of this "calamity".

It just dissapoints me that this is the way our sport is heading. I've been gone since April and I would expect that our sport would've changed for the better...not the worst.

 

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

 

{Edited by me at 12:27 for addition}

 

[This message was edited by Geo-Trekker on September 19, 2003 at 12:28 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by Geo-Trekker on September 19, 2003 at 07:13 AM.]

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Just to make a point --

 

quote:
Geo-blabber wrote:

To reiterate that you are the weakest link, you obviously don't realize that had I been banned, I wouldn't be here with the same Geo-Trekker user name. Unless of course I was using a sock puppet account of Geo-Trekker (with a period)


Where did I say that you were banned?

 

Your detective skills are right up there with your reading and comprehension skills (and your manners could use some work too).

 

I will no longer reply to your insults and warrantless accusations.

 

*****

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Hey Jomarac,

 

Either you've got a short term memory or none at all...

 

quote:
By Jomo:

Where did I say that you were banned?


 

In your post dated Sept 18th 2003 at 10:24pm

(Last edit Sept. 18th 2003 @ 11:24pm) you state:

 

quote:
By Jomo:

Aren't you the one who got banned not so long ago for pretending to be Team KFWB (with a period) and got slapped by Jeremy for it after sending cachers in Victoria to two unsavoury locations? Why, yes you are.


 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

Whatever. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

 

*****


 

Nope, no cop out here (pun intended), so take it like a man, and respond accordingly...

 

IMO, you (J5) have taken to not just *defending* the (new) pirate concept of the game, but you now appear to be an advocate of it.

 

My opinion of the pirate concept is not relevant, so I will not offer one, other than to point out that travelling caches have officially been *discontinued* (here)...

 

I would like to hear what the folks who own this site have to say... if they have anything more to add to Jeremy's comments on the pirate concept.

 

[This message was edited by canadazuuk on September 19, 2003 at 05:14 AM.]

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I just noticed a closed thread in the general forums where Jomarac5 appears to think I'm like the kid who takes his soccer ball home when he isn't winning the game.

 

Jomarac5 thinks that I asked for my thread to be closed because things weren't going my way.

 

quote:
Unlike a few others who can not take what they dish out, I am not afraid or intimidated by those who take a thread off topic. If they want to be rude, I'll simply treat them accordingly.


 

It appears that Jomarac5 would have preferred that the topic keep going until it became an absolute babble-fest. (His profile includes a reference to being from A theater near you. One can only wonder what Jomarac5 is meaning by that. And just what is the according treat? I thought this user was an advocate of forum moderation? icon_confused.gif)

 

Regardless of whether or not this is an accurate spin, I would like to point out there have been some directives about proper forum behaviour, and since I was the thread starter, I felt it best to have the thread closed. I did not feel inclined to have 'the last word', or even read the final posts to the thread for many hours. It was not a case of being unwilling to take what I am presumed to have dished out.

 

Jomarac5 appears to contradict himself. For example, he claims in one thread that I can't handle what is being dished out, and yet had previously stated in another thread that nothing was being dished out:

 

Here's the supporting proof, from posts made prior to the one above:

 

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

I think the pirate should have left Zuuk an auto-focus camera. icon_wink.gif


 

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

It wasn't off topic Zuuk. A few of your pictures were pretty fuzzy. The comment was valid as it related directly to the topic at hand. The poster was just trying to get a clearer view of the evidence.


 

Which is it Jomarac5?

 

Jomarac5 also continually raised the issue of the Vancouver Transit cache being temporarily made Members Only. Why? I can see the reason for asking the question once, maybe even twice, but I have lost count how many times it was asked by Jomarac5 (and others)

 

Jomarac5 advocates the playing out of the pirate concept via caches listed on gc.com, without such a concept being approved by the gc.com owner(s). This shows contempt not only for gc.com and it's owner(s), but also the geocachers who list their caches here.

 

My opinion of the pirate concept itself is not relevant. However, the concept does involve the manipulation of caches in a way that this site doesn't, or no longer approves of.

 

If the site owner, or their chosen spokesperson would provide revised guidelines which make allowance for pirating caches, then I will rest my case.

 

[This message was edited by canadazuuk on September 19, 2003 at 05:09 AM.]

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It's no secret that I have defended the concept of the method that this lastest pirate has used. I think it's fun and it adds a new harmless twist to the game.

 

Obviously, there are those who disagree with this concept and instead of trying to work out an amicable solution to a problem that is happening (and will continue to happen, no matter what you or I say), they wish instead to tear people down and throw insults and unsubstatiated allegations -- how many have been named and accused since our local pirate struck? At least three. There are three people that had their character questioned, and not only questioned but accusingly threatened.

 

The pirating of caches is going to happen. It is happening. And quite frankly, there is not much that anyone here can do about it. I have spoken several times in the past that I do not agree with the pirates and the way that they have been taking caches and either just keep them, or take them, hold them for a while, and then drop them off at great distances from the original cache location. I do not condone this behaviour. However, this new pirate added a twist -- he didn't take and hold up the cache for an extended period. He did it in a way that actually adds something to the game -- he leaves a cache container so that a new cache can be placed.

 

Instead of trying to meet these people half way, and find a way to incorporate this new twist, there are obviously some here who would rather not try to reach a solution but instead, fuel the fire of those who are taking the game pieces.

 

I have said all that I need to say about this. I have expressed that I agree with this new twist and many others have expressed similar sentiment. I believe, as do others, that the new pirate twist is a much better than the old.

 

I feel that I can no longer add anything to this arguement. Those of you who wish to attack me directly and point fingers, shame on you for doing so with nothing more than far reaching accusations.

 

So have it your way. You can have the pirates continue to plunder your caches in manner that is far from fair. This new pirate method was a good compromise, and I'm far from being the only one who thinks so. At least I tried to work out a solution that would meet these guys half way. All you have done is complain about a problem, that realistically, you can do nothing about. So keep sending your idle threats to the pirates, infuriate them further, and continue on your merry way. I will no longer support your narrow outlook.

 

*****

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After another night's restful sleep and thought...

 

The pirates are here and here to stay from it appears on that piratecache.com (or whatever the name is) website.

 

I'm not that comfortable with the whole pirating thing, BUT, I'd rather have a pirate strike who moves the contents 30metres and throws in a new lock&lock box than like one of the ones in Washington that have there stuff dumped 100miles away. That's ridiculous. This is a compromise I think. They still get the satisfaction of "pirating" the cache but all's okay. No cache is plundered. Plus it costs them to buy a lock&lock. Maybe that should be the "pirating rules". (I've got 3 painted lock&locks ready to go and they aren't cheap.) I don't know. Now I'm going to get some snot-nosed kid probably telling me I'm advocating or defending pirates. Whatever. Read above, I'm not comfortable with the pirating thing. What I don't condone at all is pludering and stealing of caches. That's not right and should not be tolerated anywhere.

 

That's my early 2c worth. Hopefully I don't have to reply to anything else (i.e. attacks!). I'm getting tired of this topic, the childish behaviour, etc. (To summarize: I don't like it, but I'd rather have this than something worse. You don't always get what you want in life so take the best deal you can.)

 

RobertM

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Okay, I'm late for work, but I have to add my thoughts:

 

Firstly, I would agree that the Pirate factor would annoy me as a cache-owner if I had taken great care and attention to place the cache in a unique and/or interesting location. I would also have a problem if, because of lack for foresight or just plain stupidity, a pirate moved the cache to a location that allowed it to be plundered.

 

The problem with the Cache Pirate, as I see it, is that you can get pirates that spend less time, energy and brainpower getting the cache from the original hiding location to some place that makes less sense or doesn't fit with the final result (ie: a particular view, etc).

 

Additionally, if it is a cache at the end of a puzzle (a multi-cache, a complicated cryptogram, etc) and the seeker gets to the correct location, only to find another puzzle that is harder to solve, that could be a real let-down to someone who spent time and energy figuring out a location for nothing.

 

But, for the most part, I kinda like the idea. I think it does add to the game and makes it an interesting twist.

 

My suggestion to all would be: use your discretion! Your new placement should be in keeping with the current cache (as far as difficulty and terrain) and adequate hints/coordinates should be given.

 

----

Mr Peabody and his fabulous WABAC Machine.

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I think the idea is fun, the original cache is still there (the bare definition of a cache - a location with a logbook), no one is "stealing" property, the contents are not "plundered" and are still available for trade. Only one cacher is going to be looking for the moved contents, so the impact is negligable (sp? - spellcheck me, would ya mbc icon_biggrin.gif). Seekers who are miffed at the contents being moved - I thought the game was in the chase, not in the swag? At least that is what most wet coasters have been protesting ever since a certain team came to town.

Lighten up and quit the slagging - you guys are getting embarrassing.

mho

 

"Thank you for calling Mom's Travel Service. Guilt Trips our specialty. Where would you like to go today?"

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Geeze! What went on while I was sleeping?

 

One needs to go to bed at a reasonable hour otherwise they'll wake up cranky. I learnt that when I was two, just after I built my first electron microscope icon_wink.gif

 

I still think this latest Pirate incident was pretty neat. It was done for FUN! As part of a GAME! It appears some folks take this game waaay too seriously. The Pirate capers are interesting and worthy of discussion so why can't we kids have a civil discussion in this forum (It is a forum)without all the crap.

 

For the record, I would not condone removing contents of a cache other than a trade,(even if it a bunch of junk) but would enjoy encountering one of those maps and a continued short search to the Pirate's Bounty.

 

Let's b' talkn' like Pirate's on t' fine day.

 

ps. my appologies to those who are bothered by my poor grammar and spelin

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