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THE GEOPIRATE HAS LANDED IN BC, II

WILE E.

By WILE E.
in Canada

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RobertM

+RobertM

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

RobertM, your reply button is stuck! icon_wink.gif

 

The caches do belong to the cache owners, as is obvious. But the database does not. If the listing database owner chooses to de-list your cache because you circumvent the rules of their database, then you have received what you deserve.

 

And I'm NOT sorry at all to say that geocaching.com is MORE than just a listing database. Why you feel it is JUST a listing database is anyone's guess.

I've been out the entire day. There were many messages to reply to. icon_smile.gif I don't ignore messages like our young friend. icon_wink.gif

 

It's a database. In simple terms that's what it is. The website geocaching.com is. The term geocaching is something else. Geocaching.com can I suppose control their database the way they want. But we the cache owners should be able to control our caches the way we want. That's just my opinion. Just as everyone else expresses their opinion, that's mine.

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Geo-Trekker

+Geo-Trekker

Posted
Posted

Hi RobertM,

 

quote:
By RobertM:

So you did a SAR. Interesting. I didn't know they have kids involved in that...

 

North Shore SAR doesn't have kids involved so I highly doubt that we would ever need you.

 

I am not ignoring you, you are being plain ignorant and choosing to ignore me. I've fired off 2 e-mails to you since and you still haven't replied. Either my POP.TELUS.NET Server is down or you are trying to add fuel this fire. If by chance you didn't receive those e-mails, I can post them to this thread where I know you will see them.

 

As for Jomarac's e-mail from "Pirate Cacher":

 

quote:
By Jomarac:

Sound like anybody we know?

 

If you are implicating that I am the author of that e-mail, you are just plain wrong. I am a 1st year taking Pre-Med through correspondance at UBC. I have also introduced Geocaching to two of my Prof's and they have yet to sign up with Geocaching.com. I have never attended Lord Byng, I graduated from McRoberts in Richmond.

 

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

 

{Edited at 12:45AM for Correction}

 

[This message was edited by Geo-Trekker on September 21, 2003 at 12:45 AM.]

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Acuracura

Acuracura

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by GroundClutter:

It seems like fun, and the cacher gets something extra for the extra work. Sure, there are issues that are outstanding...the stealing, the possibility that the contents won't get replaced, the chance that the pirate's second location will get plundered, and the owner will lose their contents... but all in all, it seems like fun. I would like to be the cacher who finds one of these.

 

That being said...we simply have to respect that this is a change in the way the game is played. Some people didn't sign up for this aspect and it should not be forced upon them. The idea of a symbol is a good one, however I do not feel that it should be a "no pirate" zone, but it should instead be a "Pirate Frienly zone"

 

As there is a modification in the game, the onus should be on those wishing the change. The people who like the pirate activity should be the ones to go to the trouble to give permission, and thus place a permission symbol on their sites. The people who don't want it should not be inconvenienced.

 

Above all, let's all respect the feelings of the other cachers, and make sure that the game is still friendly and fun. ok? icon_smile.gif

 

"You are cleared for geocaching."

 

Good idea. Instead of the pirate having to personally ask the cache owner and ruining the surprise, the owner can pre-authorise the pirating.

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Please visit the Ham Radio Forums at www.ham-radio.ca. Thank you.

- VE7DPT

Vancouver, BC, Canada

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seneca

+seneca

Posted
Posted

I have no problem with a “new twist” on the game provided that everyone agreed that this is how its going to be played. At present, by playing the game on Geocaching.com, we have all effectively agreed that one finds the cache, signs the log book, takes something and leaves something of equal or greater value, and otherwise leaves the cache exactly as it was found. I could hardly complain if someone finds my cache (my property) and takes something from it and leaves something of equal or greater value - I have agreed to play that way. Beyond the basic rules, Geocachers as a group, strongly support and adhere to a collective ethic which requires the property of others to be respected. The appropriately called “pirates” (who by definition act without consent or authority) clearly do not support this ethic. If someone wants to ethically engage in a new game, where caches can randomly be moved by "surprise", then they would either have to get the rule change adopted by Geocaching.com, or start a new Geocaching site with different rules, and its own cache listings.

 

It is interesting that they do call themselves “pirates”, which I accept as a candid acknowledgment that what they are doing contravenes the common Geocaching ethic of respecting the property of others.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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GroundClutter

+GroundClutter

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

quote:
Originally posted by GroundClutter:

I would like to be the cacher who finds one of these.

 

Hey GroundClutter, long time! How's it going?

 

Gotta agree, I wouldn't mind finding one either. Lock&Lock's are the coolest containers!

 

Hi! Going great! I'll send you a private message. (Just didn't want anyone thinking I was ignoring you!) icon_wink.gif

 

"You are cleared for geocaching."

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RobertM

+RobertM

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Trekker:

North Shore SAR doesn't have kids involved so I highly doubt that we would ever need you.

Let's see, you are around 16 or 17. I'm 29. I don't think I'm a kid. Why am I even bothering replying to this?

 

quote:
Originally posted by Geo-Trekker:

I am not ignoring you, you are being plain ignorant and choosing to ignore me. I've fired off 2 e-mails to you since and you still haven't replied. Either my POP.TELUS.NET Server is down or you are trying to add fuel this fire. If by chance you didn't receive those e-mails, I can post them to this thread where I know you will see them.

I did not receive them. I sent you another e-mail with my e-mail address attached. Try again.

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Geo-Trekker

+Geo-Trekker

Posted
Posted

Hi Pantalaimon,

 

The photo on the public profile is not the true likeness of myself though my avatar is. This is a strange anomaly which has been there only a short while. The Geocaching.com admin are working on solving the problem, it appears there was an error on the Geocaching.com site.

 

Hopefully it will be solved shortly.

 

Cheers,

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

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Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

Hmmm... I guess asking you, Geo-Trekker, might have been a good idea also. Didn't mean to exclude you from the conversation.

 

The funny part is, and I mean this as neither a compliment or an insult (because I'm not sure what it would be), but just as an observation: I thought your profile picture was you, and your avatar picture was (and I apologize in advance) Leonardo DiCaprio.

 

Pan

 

Here there be tigers. - My response when asked by a fellow Geocacher to describe the attitude of the forums.

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Geo-Trekker

+Geo-Trekker

Posted
Posted

Hmmm...

 

Make-Up Artist: $309.00

 

Personal Hairstylist: $752.00

 

Dental Whitening: $1200.00

 

Wardrobe: $4653.00

 

Rolex Timepiece: $11,450.00

 

Looking like Leonardo DiCaprio.....PRICELESS

 

Maybe only in photographs though, the same can't be said in real life I'm sure!

 

Cheers,

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

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KimAndMollie

KimAndMollie

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

I have no problem with a “new twist” on the game provided that everyone agreed that this is how its going to be played. At present, by playing the game on Geocaching.com, we have all effectively agreed that one finds the cache, signs the log book, takes something and leaves something of equal or greater value, and otherwise leaves the cache exactly as it was found. I could hardly complain if someone finds my cache (my property) and takes something from it and leaves something of equal or greater value - I have agreed to play that way. Beyond the basic rules, Geocachers as a group, strongly support and adhere to a collective ethic which requires the property of others to be respected. The appropriately called “pirates” (who by definition act without consent or authority) clearly do not support this ethic. If someone wants to ethically engage in a new game, where caches can randomly be moved by "surprise", then they would either have to get the rule change adopted by Geocaching.com, or start a new Geocaching site with different rules, and its own cache listings.

 

It is interesting that they do call themselves “pirates”, which I accept as a candid acknowledgment that what they are doing contravenes the common Geocaching ethic of respecting the property of others.

 

Thank you! That was what I was trying to say-well put!! icon_biggrin.gificon_cool.gif

 

compass.gif Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy.

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RobertM

+RobertM

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SombreHippie & Puppy Dawg:

Another Pie-Rat plunderin'!

 

This time, RobertM's http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=61001!

 

A great serial killer once said, "Beauty is only skin deep. Trust me, I've looked..."

I've been meaning to check up on this cache as it was quite a while since the last find. At least I don't have to now (it's quite a walk up there!), but I should have, looks like I could have scored a L&L.

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

Posted
Posted

quote:
Seneca wrote:

I have no problem with a “new twist” on the game provided that everyone agreed that this is how its going to be played.

I agree as with this statement as well. It seems however, that the only pirate playing with any sense of fairness is our local pirate, Captain Urchin. The other pirates are taking caches and either not returning them at all, or are holding the contents for extended periods and then requiring the cache owner to travel great distances to retrieve the contents. I know I'd be pretty miffed if my caches were taken in the same manner as the pirates in New Jersey or Washington. I don't mind a bit, if they are taken in the same manner as our local pirate -- I don't see the harm in this, as long as he sticks to his word and only plunders the caches that the owner has given permission to do so.

 

With regard to the pirates having approval from gc.com to pirate caches, I just simply don't see how this can be enforced.

 

Zuuk, I don't think the pirates are going to ask gc.com to advocate the pirate concept -- these guys don't care about gc.com, as they've shown very clearly -- but our local pirate does seem to be respectful of those who do not wish to participate by agreeing to contact cachers to get their approval to play his game and by respecting those who don't want to play, by leaving their caches be. I don't see where gc.com has anything to do with me or you agreeing to allow Captain Urchin to visit our caches, and quite frankly, nor should they -- if I give permission to allow the pirate to play his game with my caches, I certainly don't need gc.com (or any other caching website for that matter) telling me that I can't do this. It's my cache and I'll do with it what I desire. Gc.com is a listing service and that is the extent of it.

 

Not to be inciting an argument here but what do you think gc.com could do about it anyway? What kind of uproar do you think they would experience if the people who don't have a problem with this new pirate were told that they cannot make decisions regarding their own caches? I'd guess that it would be much worse than the current situation.

 

I see that Captain Urchin visited another cache this weekend -- I guess Geo-trekker's accusations about me are not as well founded as he'd like to think.

 

*****

(edit: typo)

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on September 22, 2003 at 04:01 PM.]

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Acuracura

Acuracura

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

I agree as with this statement as well. It seems however, that the only pirate playing with any sense of fairness is our local pirate, Captain Urchin. The other pirates are taking caches and either not returning them at all, or are holding the contents for extended periods and then requiring the cache owner to travel great distances to retrieve the contents. I know I'd be pretty miffed if my caches were taken in the same manner as the the pirates in New Jersey or in Washington. I don't mind a bit, if they are taken in the same manner as our local pirate -- I don't see the harm in this, as long as he sticks to his word and only plunders the caches that the owner has given permission to do so.

 

With regard to the pirates having approval from gc.com to pirate caches, I just simply don't see how this can be enforced.

 

Zuuk, I don't think the pirates are going to ask gc.com to advocate the pirate concept -- these guys don't care about gc.com, as they've shown very clearly -- but our local pirate does seem to be respectful of those who do not wish to participate. By agreeing to contact cachers to get their approval to play his game, and by respecting those who don't want to play by leaving their caches be. I don't see where gc.com has anything to do with me or you agreeing to allow Captain Urchin to visit our caches, and quite frankly, nor should they -- if I give permission to allow the pirate to play his game with my caches, I certainly don't need gc.com (or any other caching website for that matter) telling me that I can't do this. It's my cache and I'll do with it what I desire. Gc.com is a listing service and that is the extent of it.

 

Not to be inciting an argument here but what do you think gc.com could do about it anyway? What kind of uproar do you think they would experience if the people who don't have a problem with this new pirate were told that they cannot make decisions regarding their own caches? I'd guess that it would be much worse than the current situation.

 

I see that Captain Urchin visited another cache this weekend -- I guess Geo-trekker's accusations about me are not as well founded as he'd like to think.

 

*****

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on September 22, 2003 at 10:36 AM.]

 

I'm certainly glad we have established that the pirate will only pirate caches that he/she has been allowed to. So it is assumed that all geocaches are not pirate friendly unless otherwise noted. I respect the pirate for respecting us and ours.

 

No argument here, as you mentioned gc.com is simply a listing service. They do not enforce anything regarding plundering, vandalism, or even stolen TB's. They can, however, work together with the pirate to categorize piratable and non-piratable geocaches. gc.com is not the pirates enemy, and in fact, gc.com is the pirates friend. gc.com's forums have certainly helped clear a lot of things up about the pirates intentions, as well as provide exposure and feedback from 'victims' and spectators. The pirate should actually be gratefull for gc.com as without it, he/she would continue to pirate caches without permission and without realizing everybody hates the pirate for it. The pirate certainly has grown to be a dynamic character though all of this discussion, a change for the better in my opinion.

 

As for your last comment about Geo-Trekker, you simply could have stated that you're not the pirate since you were away for the weekend, rather than posting an immature "Look everybody! I'm right, he's wrong!" statement. Of course, after seeing this thread develop since the begining, it's no surprise that every chance to attack would be optimized. I've even seen simple grammer and spelling errors criticized and ridiculed. We're all here because we love geocaching, please, just let it go.

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Please visit the Ham Radio Forums at www.ham-radio.ca. Thank you.

- VE7DPT

Vancouver, BC, Canada

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

Posted
Posted

Acuracura, thank you for your post. Your opinions are well taken and make good sense.

 

I feel compelled to say something about your last comment however. The person in question is the only one who is being immature -- he's pointed an accusing finger not only at me but at another cacher since all this started. Who's he going to point a finger at next? Could it be you? He needs to be taken down a notch before he gets himself in a whole lot of trouble. There are those who are not as tolerant of him as I am. His unsubstantiated and childish accusations are creating problems for others. He needs to back off and think about what he's doing before he posts. In light of your post however, I will simply ignore his senseless posts in the future.

 

*****

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canadazuuk

+canadazuuk

Posted
Posted

This whole thing is clunking slice of nonsense. How can anyone claim to even know when RobertM's cache was hit; it's been sitting idle for 6 weeks. How do we know the pirate is local? If the pirate is local, does that mean it is a geocacher we all know?

 

Folks, gc.com could choose to de-list caches placed by owners who openly advocate the pirate concept. Simply put, posting logos onto cache pages saying you want to be part of another game is contemptuous.

 

There is no endorsement of the concept outside of a small circle of apologists and lobbyists. (read: 'special interest group')

 

The argument that gc.com is *just* a listing database ignores the entire community aspect of geocaching. As does the pirate concept.

 

Time for this thread to go 'buh-bye'.

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Jomarac5

Jomarac5

Posted
Posted

quote:
Canadazuuk wrote:

This whole thing is clunking slice of nonsense. How can anyone claim to even know when RobertM's cache was hit; it's been sitting idle for 6 weeks. How do we know the pirate is local? If the pirate is local, does that mean it is a geocacher we all know?

Can't answer all your questions Zuuk, because I don't have answers for them -- but the pirate posted a message on the pirate board saying that he was going to hit another cache -- I assumed that he kept his word and didn't hit a cache without permission of the owner -- Robert gave him permission to do so in an earlier post to this forum. But, you may be correct, he may have hit this cache prior to giving his word. I guess you'd have to ask him yourself.

 

As for the rest of your post, I can't say that I agree with you (or that I'm surprised with what you say). What you are missing however, is that there are a lot of people in this community that don't share your views. There are many who have already indicated that they LIKE this new concept, including myself and many others beyond those who have posted to this thread.

 

The cache belongs to the cache owner Zuuk. And if they want to put a logo on their cache page to say that want to participate in this pirate game or not should not make one bit of difference to anyone but them. Has the pirate contacted you for permission to have your caches included Zuuk? If he has and you told him not to do it, or if he hasn't contacted you, then you have nothing to worry about have you? As long as he keeps his word, he's not going to visit your cache.

 

*****

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Geo-Trekker

+Geo-Trekker

Posted
Posted

Hey Jomarac,

 

Calling me childish Eh?...I don't know, I do think that you need to be taken down a notch before you get yourself in to a whole lot of trouble.

 

I think it's time you should back off and think about what you're doing before you post....

 

I urge you to check out:

 

This Thread

 

Here's my point:

 

quote:
By CachingSpree03:

I am 12, and I wondered if any kids my age are in post rooms! thank you! BYE!

 

-Reply to CachingSpree03 by Stunod-

 

quote:
By Stunod:

There are some people here who are older, but less mature than you... icon_biggrin.gif

 

-Reply to Stunod by Team GPSaxophone-

 

quote:
By Stunod:

Good one, Stunod! I'll vouch for Jomarac5, he acts like he's less mature than most icon_wink.gif

 

Enjoy,

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

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RobertM

+RobertM

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

Jomarac5, you don't get it. You don't own this site.

 

If YOU can obtain permission from the site to have your caches listed on THIS site included in some other game that YOU want to play, then you'd better get on with it and actually OBTAIN that permission...

The caches belong to the cache owners, not geocaching.com. Which part don't you get?
Link to comment
RobertM

+RobertM

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by canadazuuk:

You own your cache. Geocaching.com owns this site. The two concepts merge when there is agreement. The two concepts diverge at the point of disagreement.

Okay, I'm no longer responding to Canadazuuk either. He's not reading and understanding what I'm saying. icon_wink.gif
Link to comment
canadazuuk

+canadazuuk

Posted
Posted

Nope, I do understand what you are trying to say. I don't agree with it. Here's why.

 

When you want to have your cache included in a different game that involves radically different concepts than the site you are listing your cache on, you are opening the door to parasites.

 

These 'para-sites' aim to gain their own momentum by leeching off of someone else's efforts. In the specific example of p#####caching.com, it is clear that any momentum that site hopes to gain will come solely from the efforts of geocachers and geocaching.com

 

The 'para-sites' also raise another issue. What about the general concept of quality control? Already, there are many examples of p#####caching.com forum threads containing posts claiming to be from well known users from geocaching.com.

 

And another issue. The person involved in the Vancouver area concept may indeed be benevolent. But what about the other presons involved in other areas? They all use the same site.

 

I think the problem with those who have been too quick to be advocates of the concept in the Vancouver area is that they are not looking at the larger picture. Geocaching.com has a multitude of users from all over the world. Just because three or four geocachers got a free Lock & Lock box doesn't make it right.

 

Furthermore, and I realize proponents of the concept disagree here, PERMISSION to include the concept within caches in the Vancouver area should have been sought before proceeding with it. Trying to introduce the concept, and then find apologists and lobbyists for it is just plain rude.

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Geo-Trekker

+Geo-Trekker

Posted
Posted

Hi Cache-Advance,

 

Good Luck at getting an answer....It's like pulling teeth.

 

Until J5 comes clean I guess we will all have to formulate our own opinions and separate fact from fiction based on what is presented in the thread.

 

I wish you luck!

Geo-Trekker

 

A man with a GPS knows where he is...A Man with two GPS's is never sure!

Link to comment
NJ Admin

+NJ Admin

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

I don't believe Cache-Advance (or Mr.Gigabyte) has answered the question. :-) Thanks for all the other admins jumping in though.

While we are asking questions, RobertM, do you know for a fact who Captain Urchin is? are you in on this too?

(are you getting the impression these questions are rather pointed and direct for a reason?)

 

--------------------

bad_boy_a.gif Personal slave of The Frog. bad_boy_a.gif

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NJ Admin

+NJ Admin

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by RobertM:

My question was not about who Captain Urchin is or is not. I did not mention him.

 

I asked about Cache-Advance and am not getting a straight answer. How come he isn't answering me? My questions ARE pointed and direct for a reason.

As are mine, only dif is, Cache-Advance doesnt seem to be reading this thread, and you are, yet you still don't answer the question.

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