The problem with earthcache & similar

[+Korichnovui]

I’m new to the game and was recently asking a more experienced cacher about some of the non-traditional logs. I was surprised to hear them say that they disliked earthcaches and other types that require correspondence with the CO before credit can be claimed. In their experience, very few CO *ever* respond back, which was a surprising and disheartening thing for me to hear. This cacher also gave advice:

When that person finds/solves such a cache, they will give the CO 1 week to respond. If there is no response, the cacher feels justified in claiming the smiley without the CO’s permission.

Anyway, today I sent in my first earthcache and also a multi-cache that required CO confirmation to log it. I put both into a list to keep track of them.

If you were me, what would you do if return correspondence didn’t come? Consider general etiquette and then also the special circumstances of the current event that will end soon.....

[+Max and 99]

I wait one week then log it.

In the case of the current event ending soon, I'd log now and send a message explaining why to the ECO.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Max and 99

[+barefootjeff]

Take a look at the Help Centre page on logging Earthcaches. There it says "Once you send your answers, you may log your find online before hearing back from the cache owner." Sometimes (perhaps even often?), particularly on ECs that get a lot of finds, the CO will only respond if there's a problem with your answers.

The only other type of cache where you need to contact the CO is a virtual. For multis and mysteries, the only requirement is that you sign the logbook in the cache. Anything else, including contacting the CO, is an Additional Logging Requirement and is not allowed.

Edited April 5, 2018 by barefootjeff

[+fizzymagic]

Earthcaches should generally be logged right away, as the cache find is not dependent on getting the "right" answers.  They are not tests, except that it should be obvious that you were there and trying.  Virtuals are the same way, unless the CO explicitly says not to log the cache until they OK your response.

The only criterion by which a CO can delete your log is if they don't believe you actually visited the site. That is extremely rare. I've only done it a couple of times.

[+Korichnovui]

7 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

The only other type of cache where you need to contact the CO is a virtual. For multis and mysteries, the only requirement is that you sign the logbook in the cache. Anything else, including contacting the CO, is an Additional Logging Requirement and is not allowed.

Thanks for the heads up.

Actually I did a fun little puzzle today that was listed as a multi-cache. Basically we walked around the perimeter of a baseball multiplex and there were washers wired into the fencing at certain spots. Each washer had a word or two stamped onto it and the CO wanted the phrase they created sent in to him in order to count the cache.

Maybe it would have more correctly been classified as a mystery? I don’t know. There was no physical cache location, just the washers. Kinda unique and fun.

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCHC3Z

 

[+barefootjeff]

1 minute ago, Korichnovui said:

Thanks for the heads up.

Actually I did a fun little puzzle today that was listed as a multi-cache. Basically we walked around the perimeter of a baseball multiplex and there were washers wired into the fencing at certain spots. Each washer had a word or two stamped onto it and the CO wanted the phrase they created sent in to him in order to count the cache.

Maybe it would have more correctly been classified as a mystery? I don’t know. There was no physical cache location, just the washers. Kinda unique and fun.

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCHC3Z

 

I see that one was hidden in 2003 so may have been grandfathered. Looking at it, it really should've been listed as a virtual, though I'm not sure if virtuals were around then.

[+Korichnovui]

14 minutes ago, fizzymagic said:

Earthcaches should generally be logged right away, as the cache find is not dependent on getting the "right" answers.  They are not tests, except that it should be obvious that you were there and trying.  Virtuals are the same way, unless the CO explicitly says not to log the cache until they OK your response.

The only criterion by which a CO can delete your log is if they don't believe you actually visited the site. That is extremely rare. I've only done it a couple of times.

Thanks for your (and others) education on this point.

 

[+coachstahly]

4 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

Thanks for the heads up.

Actually I did a fun little puzzle today that was listed as a multi-cache. Basically we walked around the perimeter of a baseball multiplex and there were washers wired into the fencing at certain spots. Each washer had a word or two stamped onto it and the CO wanted the phrase they created sent in to him in order to count the cache.

Maybe it would have more correctly been classified as a mystery? I don’t know. There was no physical cache location, just the washers. Kinda unique and fun.

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCHC3Z

 

The listing appears to be correctly labeled as a multi, as there are stages placed by the CO, at multiple waypoints.  If the CO placed the washers, then each stage is a physical waypoint.  If the washers were already there with the words on them (unlikely, at least to me, but possible) then the stages could be listed as virtual stages rather than physical stages but still be considered as a multi(ple) stage cache.  You could also list this as an unknown type of cache.  I've seen similar ones like this listed that way as well.  Either choice would be fine for me.  A virtual cache would have only applied, if I understand them correctly, if the washers were already present and already had the words on them.  I've done unknowns and multis that required you to email the CO with the word or phrase at the end of the cache, rather than a physical container with a log sheet, like this one.

[+barefootjeff]

16 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

The listing appears to be correctly labeled as a multi, as there are stages placed by the CO, at multiple waypoints.  If the CO placed the washers, then each stage is a physical waypoint.  If the washers were already there with the words on them (unlikely, at least to me, but possible) then the stages could be listed as virtual stages rather than physical stages but still be considered as a multi(ple) stage cache.  You could also list this as an unknown type of cache.  I've seen similar ones like this listed that way as well.  Either choice would be fine for me.  A virtual cache would have only applied, if I understand them correctly, if the washers were already present and already had the words on them.  I've done unknowns and multis that required you to email the CO with the word or phrase at the end of the cache, rather than a physical container with a log sheet, like this one.

It doesn't qualify as a multi under the current guidelines:

Quote

Multi-Caches

A Multi-Cache includes at least one stage in addition to the physical final stage. The posted coordinates are a stage of the Multi-Cache. At each stage, the geocacher gathers information that leads them to the next stage or to the final container. The final stage consists of at least a container with a logbook. Learn more about Multi-Caches.

Then there's also this from the guidelines (virtuals and Earthcaches are exempt from this obviously):

Quote

Caches cannot require geocachers to contact the cache owner or anyone else.

 

[+Team Microdot]

6 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

I’m new to the game and was recently asking a more experienced cacher about some of the non-traditional logs. I was surprised to hear them say that they disliked earthcaches and other types that require correspondence with the CO before credit can be claimed. In their experience, very few CO *ever* respond back, which was a surprising and disheartening thing for me to hear.

I can understand you being disheartened by this news.

My experience is similar Earthcache owners - some of them with dozens of Earthcaches - providing zero response to answers submitted. It's disappointing and I find it a bit lazy on the CO's part.

I enjoy getting a response back, ideally confirming that I've correctly learned the Earth Science Lesson provided.

I make a point of always providing a response on my own Earthcaches, usually within a few minutes of receiving the answers.

[+Mudfrog]

9 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Take a look at the Help Centre page on logging Earthcaches. There it says "Once you send your answers, you may log your find online before hearing back from the cache owner." Sometimes (perhaps even often?), particularly on ECs that get a lot of finds, the CO will only respond if there's a problem with your answers.

The only other type of cache where you need to contact the CO is a virtual. For multis and mysteries, the only requirement is that you sign the logbook in the cache. Anything else, including contacting the CO, is an Additional Logging Requirement and is not allowed.

I tend to shy away from earthcaches and virtuals because of all the hoops some COs want you to go through. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy discovering and learning from them but i've hit some that were just too tedious.

As far as logging, i always log them right after i send the email. There are times when i get a reply from the CO but most times, not.

[+Team Microdot]

45 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

I tend to shy away from earthcaches and virtuals because of all the hoops some COs want you to go through. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy discovering and learning from them but i've hit some that were just too tedious.

Tedious how?

[+bflentje]

11 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I see that one was hidden in 2003 so may have been grandfathered. Looking at it, it really should've been listed as a virtual, though I'm not sure if virtuals were around then.

The only ALR's that can be enforced are EC's, virtuals and webcams. While this cache might still exist, the ALR part of it would NOT have been grandfathered.

[+niraD]

11 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

Each washer had a word or two stamped onto it and the CO wanted the phrase they created sent in to him in order to count the cache.

This sounds like a keyword cache, which hasn't been allowed for years.

[+cerberus1]

2 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

I tend to shy away from earthcaches and virtuals because of all the hoops some COs want you to go through.

 - snip -

As far as logging, i always log them right after i send the email. There are times when i get a reply from the CO but most times, not.

Me too.  One we noticed lately, near a spot that others were discussing, has the CO say on the cache page not to even bother stopping by if you don't have all the tools/knowledge required to claim a smiley.  We didn't see it as a fun learning experience at all, and the impression I got was if we didn't get it perfect, we'd just be deleted anyway.   Well, that was easy...skip.    

We got replies from one EC owner on all their caches.  We thought that was nice.  Most times, we heard nada too. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by cerberus1

[+Mudfrog]

1 hour ago, Team Microdot said:

Tedious how?

For example,,these requirements to log this earthcache:

1. The hole is approximately circular, so the distance you walk is a good estimate of the circumference. Measure this circumference by taking a reading from your GPSr odometer before starting the trail and again when you finish the circuit, being sure to return to where you started. The difference between the two readings is the Circumference used in the next step. You may have to reset your odometer so that hundredths are displayed (or change the units to something shorter than a mile).
2. Convert the circumference into an area using the following formula: Area = Circumference squared divided by 12.56.
3. You are welcome to log your find, but MUST email your area estimate to my geocaching email, do not post it here! If I do not receive this email within a week of your log, I WILL DELETE your find.

In this case, the answers the CO wanted didn't really have much to do with the earthcache itself. Was more of a math problem than anything.

 

From the beginning, i have never gotten into earth and virtual caches because of some of requirements asked by the COs to prove i was at the cache site. Yep, it's sometimes hard for a CO to come up with questions that can't be looked up on the net but on the other hand, i don't feel a CO needs to go overboard requiring too many and/or too tough to calculate questions. Of course this is my opinion on what i like and i would never try to dictate how a CO sets up his or her cache. There's no doubt many people have fun with them.

 

 

 

 

[+kunarion]

33 minutes ago, Mudfrog said:

For example,,these requirements to log this earthcache:

1. The hole is approximately circular, so the distance you walk is a good estimate of the circumference. Measure this circumference by taking a reading from your GPSr odometer before starting the trail and again when you finish the circuit, being sure to return to where you started. The difference between the two readings is the Circumference used in the next step. You may have to reset your odometer so that hundredths are displayed (or change the units to something shorter than a mile).
2. Convert the circumference into an area using the following formula: Area = Circumference squared divided by 12.56.
3. You are welcome to log your find, but MUST email your area estimate to my geocaching email, do not post it here! If I do not receive this email within a week of your log, I WILL DELETE your find.

In this case, the answers the CO wanted didn't really have much to do with the earthcache itself. Was more of a math problem than anything.

 

From the beginning, i have never gotten into earth and virtual caches because of some of requirements asked by the COs to prove i was at the cache site. Yep, it's sometimes hard for a CO to come up with questions that can't be looked up on the net but on the other hand, i don't feel a CO needs to go overboard requiring too many and/or too tough to calculate questions. Of course this is my opinion on what i like and i would never try to dictate how a CO sets up his or her cache. There's no doubt many people have fun with them.

 

I can't stand homework while I'm Geocaching.

But your example is actually not bad. I've seen some where I must “estimate the volume of water that passes this point in an hour” or whatever, and now I have to decide if I have the equipment or formulas to come up with any figure. And I don't. At least in the example, there's a provided procedure. OK, I'd probably discover that my GPSr has an “odometer” issue and I'd have to go in circles until I thought up a new measurement system. But that question is good because it's less likely that you can measure that hole by looking at a picture of the place. You go there and measure it.

But often the tough question is, as mentioned, a weird unrelated math problem or worse, a hypothesis on why the formation is different in this spot. Can I just make a wild guess? Because I seriously have no idea. I can't even imagine why it's different. “Rainbow ponies”. That's my hypothesis. Is that question just for fun, or part of the test? Because it's one of the numbered questions just like the others.  I know I got the other answers right.  If that question was not there, I'd be exploring the site by now.  Discovering the animals.  Taking pictures. Working on the log story.  But instead I'm standing here doing "science".  Cool.

Edited April 5, 2018 by kunarion

[+tomfuller & Quill]

As a Platinum Earth Cache Master (3 EC published and EC's logged in 8 states and 1 in Canada) I can say that I can't require you to post a picture but i am more likely to believe you were there if you do post one with you in the picture. One of mine I had to allow a post from someone who i know has never logged a regular cache in the US. Groundspeak made me accept the log because they answered my questions correctly.

My Earth Caches do not have signs at them so you do have to do a bit of research to answer questions.

If you look at my profile picture I am standing with Quill at Badwater in Death Valley (-282 ft) which is an easy Earth Cache once you get there.

[+on4bam]

4 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

I can't stand homework while I'm Geocaching.

Different strokes for different folks. I hate geocaching  if it's just picking up containers. Love earthcaches and virtuals especially if there are info boards to read and learn something. The same goes for other cachetypes, love some searching, code breaking, puzzles.

As for EC's and virtuals, I tend to write the email(s) while GSAK is uploading my logs via API so logging and sending answers is only minutes apart. Only exception was a few weeks ago when on a citytrip to Lisbon where I have send answers every evening but only logged when back home (first time since we started caching that I didn't log on the same day as finding a cache).

 

[+niraD]

8 minutes ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

My Earth Caches do not have signs at them so you do have to do a bit of research to answer questions.

I thought that "Asking geocachers to research the topic online" was prohibited: EarthCache logging tasks

[+kunarion]

4 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Different strokes for different folks.

 

+1

I also skip the "mystery caches" that are billed as "torture".  But it doesn't bother me that anyone else works on them.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Geoaware doesn't have any problem with the questions that i ask. One of mine is at a leg of a multi that was put in by a geologist.

I still have a Puzzle cache out that I placed in 2012 still waiting for a FTF.  (New Slope Distance)

[+thebruce0]

Yeah the 'numbers' mentality can lead people often to looking at EC's and Virtuals as just another thing to 'do' to get a smiley.  But they're intended to be a different kind of experience. Go somewhere, learn something, explore. Don't just skip to the questions, google answers, take a pic at gz, and leave; that can lead to the "busywork" opinion of ECs, and group finds where 1 person does the work and 20 people couldn't care less but say that person is sending in answers for them.
(disclaimer: I'm often guilty of just jumping to the questions too - but I do like to visit and explore and depending on the subject matter I do read and want to learn something, and if I'm in a group like that I'll still want to get to gz and spend some time there, whether I send answers or someone else does)

The good ones are the ones that are actually interesting   Whether they take a while to read or not, regardless of the amount of work needed to log it found.

[+on4bam]

When preparing our holidays we always check for EC's and virtuals near our route as most of the time they are at interesting locations.

 

[+niraD]

3 hours ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

Geoaware doesn't have any problem with the questions that i ask. One of mine is at a leg of a multi that was put in by a geologist.

Okay. Can you help reconcile your earlier comment "you do have to do a bit of research to answer questions" with the prohibition against requiring online research? If there are no signs for your EC, then on-site research doesn't work. What other research are you expecting finders of your EC to do?

[+Korichnovui]

I was wondering to myself, maybe the owners don’t respond because they’re swamped with messages and they get fatigued from “dealing with it”? I could see myself feeling that way about it if there were tons of messages. Have any of you experienced types felt this way? It would be good to know what I’m getting myself into if I ever try to make a virtual or similar...

Edited April 5, 2018 by Korichnovui

[+barefootjeff]

30 minutes ago, Korichnovui said:

I was wondering to myself, maybe the owners don’t respond because they’re swamped with messages and they get fatigued from “dealing with it”? I could see myself feeling that way about it if there were tons of messages. Have any of you experienced types felt this way? It would be good to know what I’m getting myself into if I ever try to make a virtual or similar...

Virtuals and Webcams are now grandfathered so, apart from one-off promotions like last year's Virtual Rewards, you won't be able to create any new ones of those. As for Earthcaches, I own one which was published in 2014 and has only had 36 finds in that time, so taking the time to provide a personalised response and thank you note to each of the finders hasn't been a burden. If you created one in a popular tourist spot that got multiple visits a day, though, replying to them all might become a bit arduous after a few years so I can understand some people only replying if there's a problem with the answers.

[+coachstahly]

14 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

It doesn't qualify as a multi under the current guidelines:

Then there's also this from the guidelines (virtuals and Earthcaches are exempt from this obviously):

 

I meant to say that it qualified as a multi at that particular time, not per the current guidelines.  It wouldn't work as a cache today at all, without a log to sign, regardless of the type.  Perhaps as a "new" virtual reward?

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I've done online research many times on other peoples Earth Caches to make sure that i answered them correctly. If there is no sign with the answers to the questions, I try to answer the questions to the best of my ability. I do expect people who want to log any of my Earth Caches to at least visit the site and note their observations.

I don't require photos or online research even though it may help you get the right answer the first time. Knowing what a kipuka is or knowing basalt from other types of volcanic rock is helpful. At another of my EC's I have a brick sized piece of black volcanic glass. A few people know it is obsidian without looking it up.

It takes far longer to get to my EC's than the time you would have to spend with online research.

[+Team Microdot]

5 hours ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

I've done online research many times on other peoples Earth Caches to make sure that i answered them correctly. If there is no sign with the answers to the questions, I try to answer the questions to the best of my ability. I do expect people who want to log any of my Earth Caches to at least visit the site and note their observations.

I don't require photos or online research even though it may help you get the right answer the first time. Knowing what a kipuka is or knowing basalt from other types of volcanic rock is helpful. At another of my EC's I have a brick sized piece of black volcanic glass. A few people know it is obsidian without looking it up.

It takes far longer to get to my EC's than the time you would have to spend with online research.

 

I don't see how that answers the question

 

9 hours ago, niraD said:

13 hours ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

Geoaware doesn't have any problem with the questions that i ask. One of mine is at a leg of a multi that was put in by a geologist.

Okay. Can you help reconcile your earlier comment "you do have to do a bit of research to answer questions" with the prohibition against requiring online research?

 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Team Microdot
Clarification

[+Team Microdot]

8 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

I was wondering to myself, maybe the owners don’t respond because they’re swamped with messages and they get fatigued from “dealing with it”? I could see myself feeling that way about it if there were tons of messages. Have any of you experienced types felt this way? It would be good to know what I’m getting myself into if I ever try to make a virtual or similar...

It takes less than a minute to acknowledge correct answers.

If that's too much trouble, don't be an EC owner.

[+Team Microdot]

14 hours ago, tomfuller & Quill said:

My Earth Caches do not have signs at them so you do have to do a bit of research to answer questions.

My Earth Caches do not have signs on them.

The Earth Science Lesson required to answer the questions is on the cache page. I thought that was one of the requirements for publication.

[Keystone]

I moved the thread here from the Geocaching Topics forum.

[Neos2]

Here are a couple of guideline links:

Help Center guidelines for EarthCache logging tasks.

Geological Society of America guidelines for EarthCaches

Edited April 7, 2018 by Neos2

[+Ringrat]

5 hours ago, Team Microdot said:

It takes less than a minute to acknowledge correct answers.

If that's too much trouble, don't be an EC owner.

If I get a message through the message centre, I will respond. If I get an email through the site with a return address, I will respond. If I get an email with no return address, the sender will only hear from me if there was something in their answers that wasn't correct, and far enough off that I feel compelled to reply to point them in the right direction. If the answers were correct, I'm not going to go to the website, find their profile, and email them through the site. If someone wants a response from me, they need to use a method of contacting me that has "reply" capability.

[+hzoi]

I write in all my earthcaches that it's OK to log before hearing back from me.  But I do try to respond to all loggers.  The only time I don't is if I get an email without a return address - unless there are any issues with their answers, I take that as a sign that the CO doesn't want to hear back.

[+Team Microdot]

On 05/04/2018 at 6:28 PM, Mudfrog said:

For example,,these requirements to log this earthcache:

1. The hole is approximately circular, so the distance you walk is a good estimate of the circumference. Measure this circumference by taking a reading from your GPSr odometer before starting the trail and again when you finish the circuit, being sure to return to where you started. The difference between the two readings is the Circumference used in the next step. You may have to reset your odometer so that hundredths are displayed (or change the units to something shorter than a mile).
2. Convert the circumference into an area using the following formula: Area = Circumference squared divided by 12.56.
3. You are welcome to log your find, but MUST email your area estimate to my geocaching email, do not post it here! If I do not receive this email within a week of your log, I WILL DELETE your find.

In this case, the answers the CO wanted didn't really have much to do with the earthcache itself. Was more of a math problem than anything.

 

From the beginning, i have never gotten into earth and virtual caches because of some of requirements asked by the COs to prove i was at the cache site. Yep, it's sometimes hard for a CO to come up with questions that can't be looked up on the net but on the other hand, i don't feel a CO needs to go overboard requiring too many and/or too tough to calculate questions. Of course this is my opinion on what i like and i would never try to dictate how a CO sets up his or her cache. There's no doubt many people have fun with them.

Can't help thinking that unless tree cover obscured the ariel view, the answer to that particular question could have been calculated using Google Earth.

 

[+KatnissRue]

How long should an earthcache owner wait until deleting a find on an earthcache? I have yet to receive a message after 3 days.

[+Harry Dolphin]

15 minutes ago, KatnissRue said:

How long should an earthcache owner wait until deleting a find on an earthcache? I have yet to receive a message after 3 days.

 

We wait a day, then remind the cacher that answers are needed.  Nothing in a week, the log gets deleted.

[+Team Microdot]

30 minutes ago, KatnissRue said:

How long should an earthcache owner wait until deleting a find on an earthcache? I have yet to receive a message after 3 days.

 

In my recent experience the message center does not work as it should.

 

I have twice come close to deleting valid Earthcache logs because of this.

 

For the message sender everything looks correct.

 

For the Earthcache owner though no message is received and also the confirmation email that is normally received is not received either.

 

Here is the strangest thing...

 

When I clicked the user to send a message to them to let them know I had not received their answers, their message, complete with all their answers, appeared as if by magic.

 

I believe other people have seen the same thing also.

 

I did start a thread about it in the website forum but I do not think it got any attention.

 

Short answer - try messaging the finder - see if this triggers their original message to appear.

 

If the answers are not there and they do not respond within 24 hours I would delete the log.

 

I found that if I waited longer, still the answers never came. The best way to stir the logger into action quickly is to delete their log - they usually respond very quickly then 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Team Microdot

[+KatnissRue]

6 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

 

In my recent experience the message center does not work as it should.

 

I have twice come close to deleting valid Earthcache logs because of this.

 

For the message sender everything looks correct.

 

For the Earthcache owner though no message is received and also the confirmation email that is normally received is not received either.

 

Here is the strangest thing...

 

When I clicked the user to send a message to them to let them know I had not received their answers, their message, complete with all their answers, appeared as if by magic.

 

I believe other people have seen the same thing also.

 

I did start a thread about it in the website forum but I do not think it got any attention.

 

Short answer - try messaging the finder - see if this triggers their original message to appear.

 

If the answers are not there and they do not respond within 24 hours I would delete the log.

 

I found that if I waited longer, still the answers never came. The best way to stir the logger into action quickly is to delete their log - they usually respond very quickly then 

I have messaged and emailed them. Should I wait a bit longer? Normally I wouldn't mind, but they got the FTF log.

[+Team Microdot]

7 minutes ago, KatnissRue said:

I have messaged and emailed them. Should I wait a bit longer? Normally I wouldn't mind, but they got the FTF log.

 

I would delete the log now.

 

I had the same experience as you are having now enough times that I got sick of keeping tabs on people who had found the time to log the find but conveniently (for them) failed to do the courtesy of sending their answers that I now automatically delete after 24 hours.

[+Harry Dolphin]

3 minutes ago, Team Microdot said:

 

I would delete the log now.

 

I had the same experience as you are having now enough times that I got sick of keeping tabs on people who had found the time to log the find but conveniently (for them) failed to do the courtesy of sending their answers that I now automatically delete after 24 hours.

 

We tend to be more lenient.  A week after the e-mail requesting the answers.  Might be travelling...  The only major problem we ran into was a pair of walk-throughs.  One deleted the log.  The other got into a nasty, insulting set of e-mails.  Was reported to GC, and banned from logging the cache.  

I'd say:  Give him a few more days.

[+Team Microdot]

5 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

We tend to be more lenient.  A week after the e-mail requesting the answers.  Might be travelling...  The only major problem we ran into was a pair of walk-throughs.  One deleted the log.  The other got into a nasty, insulting set of e-mails.  Was reported to GC, and banned from logging the cache.  

I'd say:  Give him a few more days.

 

I also tended to be more lenient in the past and then I got sick of acting as an unpaid secretary after investing many man hours in putting an EarthCache together in return for half a job taking less than a minute by the finder.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 4/5/2018 at 12:38 AM, Korichnovui said:

I’m new to the game and was recently asking a more experienced cacher about some of the non-traditional logs. I was surprised to hear them say that they disliked earthcaches and other types that require correspondence with the CO before credit can be claimed. In their experience, very few CO *ever* respond back, which was a surprising and disheartening thing for me to hear. This cacher also gave advice:

When that person finds/solves such a cache, they will give the CO 1 week to respond. If there is no response, the cacher feels justified in claiming the smiley without the CO’s permission.

Anyway, today I sent in my first earthcache and also a multi-cache that required CO confirmation to log it. I put both into a list to keep track of them.

If you were me, what would you do if return correspondence didn’t come? Consider general etiquette and then also the special circumstances of the current event that will end soon.....

 

Once I send in my answers I log a Find. If the CO has a problem with my answers then they can tell me and we can try to work it out, or I can end up changing my log to a DNF if necessary. There's no reason to wait 99% of the time.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 7/2/2018 at 6:07 PM, KatnissRue said:

How long should an earthcache owner wait until deleting a find on an earthcache? I have yet to receive a message after 3 days.

 

I usually send a polite reminder after 3-5 days and delete after a week of no response.

[+hzoi]

On 7/15/2018 at 5:34 AM, JL_HSTRE said:

On 7/3/2018 at 12:07 AM, KatnissRue said:

How long should an earthcache owner wait until deleting a find on an earthcache? I have yet to receive a message after 3 days.

 

I usually send a polite reminder after 3-5 days and delete after a week of no response.

 

About the same here, except I give them a week from the polite reminder.  I also don't wait 3-5 days if I can see it's their first earthcache find - I assume if it is they didn't know the rules.

 

Here's my usual note:

 

Quote

Howdy, thanks for visiting our earthcache [GCXXXXX], [Earthcache Name], and congrats on your first earthcache.

Since earthcaches have no container to find and no paper log to sign, the rules require that you answer questions based on the earth science lesson. Please read through the description again, think about what you saw, and send me the answers to these questions. 

This isn't a test, you don't need to score 100, just do the best you can. But please get back to me in the next week, or else the rules require that I'll have to delete your find.
 

[copy of logging questions follows]

 

The bit about the rules requiring me to delete the find takes some liberty with the guidelines, I know, but it's easier to explain it that way.

[+farrtom]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 10:51 PM, fizzymagic said:

Earthcaches should generally be logged right away, as the cache find is not dependent on getting the "right" answers.  They are not tests, except that it should be obvious that you were there and trying.  Virtuals are the same way, unless the CO explicitly says not to log the cache until they OK your response.

The only criterion by which a CO can delete your log is if they don't believe you actually visited the site. That is extremely rare. I've only done it a couple of times.

I agree. Log the cache send in the answers and enjoy. If you are wrong the CO should contact you and help you to understand what they are looking for but in my opinion if you were there and did all you could then that should be enough for the "find".

I don't always respond to my earchcache finders but I will not delete a log unless I think they did not visit the site our it was a drive by that did not even attempt to answer the questions.

[+farrtom]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 2:15 AM, Team Microdot said:

My Earth Caches do not have signs on them.

The Earth Science Lesson required to answer the questions is on the cache page. I thought that was one of the requirements for publication.

I have a issue with one of my recent EC finds with regards to the lesson. This EC owner says in on the cache page (I am paraphrasing) that you 24 hours from logging to submit answers (which I don't have a problem with) and you have 2 weeks to submit corrections to the answers if you get any of the questions wrong (again no problem) BUT the issue I have is that at GZ there is no information sign that helps with or gives you the answers, the cache description does NOT give you any help or the answers, and online research on this specific EC again does not give you any answers. In my opinion the question that I have not answered to their liking is an opinion because I can not find a specific answer that they are looking for. I have responded multiple times and they still say I am incorrect and so now I am just waiting to see if they delete my find.

I really like EC's and I don't mind doing some research but I am not a geologist and I don't think EC's are supposed to be a test but a fun way to learn a little more about our wonderful planet and science.

[+Team Microdot]

17 minutes ago, farrtom said:

I have a issue with one of my recent EC finds with regards to the lesson. This EC owner says in on the cache page (I am paraphrasing) that you 24 hours from logging to submit answers (which I don't have a problem with) and you have 2 weeks to submit corrections to the answers if you get any of the questions wrong (again no problem) BUT the issue I have is that at GZ there is no information sign that helps with or gives you the answers, the cache description does NOT give you any help or the answers, and online research on this specific EC again does not give you any answers. In my opinion the question that I have not answered to their liking is an opinion because I can not find a specific answer that they are looking for. I have responded multiple times and they still say I am incorrect and so now I am just waiting to see if they delete my find.

I really like EC's and I don't mind doing some research but I am not a geologist and I don't think EC's are supposed to be a test but a fun way to learn a little more about our wonderful planet and science.

 

I'm fairly sure that an EC isn't allowed to revolve solely around cribbing answers off an information board - which is why the cache owner is required to provide an Earth Science Lesson suffient, when combined with on-site observations / measurements, to complete the Logging Tasks.

 

The EC must assume NO prior knowledge.

 

The EC must not require anything but the most minimal research on the seeker's part.

 

The Earthcache you describe doesn't seem to meet the requirements and as such, under current guidelines at least, is incomplete and should not have been published.

 

You could raise these points with the ECO or, if they delete your log, take up these same points by lodging an appeal with Groundspeak. That's what I would do in your shoes.

 

Is the problem question in a form you could share here without divulging the identity of the cache in question (the moderators might not like that sort of thing).