Am I doing the right thing with my TB hotel?

[+Uncolored]

I know that this is a continuing debate but I would really like your opinion. I run a really nice, well maintained, & large wooden box TB hotel. I work hard to make sure that all of the TBs inside are accounted for and that when cachers find it, that they have something to look forward to.

I had about 18 TBs in the hotel recently and I had someone put in about 8 or so travel bugs in the other day. Several others were traded out. Today I had someone come by the hotel and take 9-10 travel bugs from the hotel, mind you, I do not want to hold them hostage I just want them to be traded with equal value (even if it is swag) so that the flow continues. I do not like to think of my hotel as a prison because most of them are traded out quickly and new ones take their place. Some of them hang around for a bit and I really would like those to be traded out. The person who came and took 9-10 from the hotel today took the most recent ones, leaving the ones that had been in there for a while still there. I am considerably frustrated that 9-10 were just taken. I DO want them to travel but I also do not want someone to come along, take a lot, and leave absolutely nothing in its place. I am aware that I do not own the TBs, I get that, but the hotel is just a part of the experience. I do not want to hold them hostage but I also don't want to be robbed either. For the most part, most of the TBs don't spend a long time in the hotel.

Am I being too strict or do you think this etiquette is fair?

What is your opinion?

[+TriciaG]

They are only "robbed" if the person who takes them doesn't put them in new caches.

 

If they are able to move them along in a timely manner, then they should be able to take as many as they want, even if they have nothing to trade.

 

IMHO.

[+JesandTodd]

I thnk the a last place I want my TB is a TB hotel. Or in this case, a TB prison. If you are deliberately taking TBs out and holding them hostage because you want to control how other players play, then it's a prison.

 

I usually grab a lot of bugs if I'm heading out on vacation and want them to travel. And no,they are NOT swag and shouldn't be 'traded'

 

Most people won't come along and deplete a hotel just for themselves. But occasionally someone will. Of course, in this case...that person is you.

 

The best thing you can do is keep the inventory accurate. But leave the bugs be...

 

As far as taking the most recent ones... Why does that matter? I choose the bugs I want to move. Even if I didn't have access to the internet to look up the mission, I take what ones will fit in my normal geo attire or will make sense traveling with me.

 

You can't dictate how many bugs people take, which bugs they take, and then hold the rest of the lot for ransom. Well you can, but it's kinda a miserable way to do things. Either way...people will play this game they way they want, and you will be left feeling angry, bitter, or regarded as a bug hoarder.

 

Let it be.

[+Uncolored]

Fair enough, thanks for your perspective. I don't want to be a bug hoarder and I don't want to be miserable.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

What you want and what you get are two different things.

 

In my opinion, using the word "trade" when speaking of trackables should be beaten down anytime one hears its use, even with the following statements:

I do not want to hold them hostage I just want them to be traded with equal value (even if it is swag).

Some of them hang around for a bit and I really would like those to be traded out.

 

The comment regarding being "robbed" is a bit further out-of-bounds.

 

That said, I do understand your dilemma... but think of it this way... Caches are placed for geocaching (regardless of what you want to call or title them as); trackables being placed or retrieved from is only secondary (at best).

Owning a "Hotel" carries with it a degree of responsibility, and you do seem to be a responsible "Hotel" CO.

It is just that attempting to exert any control over trackables coming and going from that "Hotel" is, well... sort of degrading of that apparent responsibility that you wish to portray.

 

I think it is good that you ask for opinions. I am sure you will see a number of them being posted. It is ultimately up to you, and you alone, which or what parts of those responses you will take to heart.

 

Good luck.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Gitchee-Gummee

[7rxc]

Fair enough, thanks for your perspective. I don't want to be a bug hoarder and I don't want to be miserable.

 

Just a question, since you seem to be diligent in maintaining the cache... If you want the older TB's to travel, have you considered moving them yourself, based on how long they have been there? Oldest first of course.

Even one or two at a time. At least they won't sit there forever that way, that benefits the TO some as well.

 

I suspect that the situation you described may have been arranged between cachers, I'll drop some off, other cacher picks them up. Perhaps it was just someone who looked no further than the latest drops (newest), that happens too.

 

Doug 7rxc

[+terrkan78]

Kudos to you for caring about the TBs that go through your cache.

 

With respect to the cacher who took a bunch of the most recent TBs, I don't have a smart phone, so I pretty much never know anything about the TBs (how long they've been there, what their missions are) until I get home to a computer. Often times I realize that I took the "wrong" TB (the other one had languished there much longer, etc). Just a thought.

[Keystone]

Had a travel bug hotel cache been submitted to me for review with the trading restrictions language, I would have asked you to remove that. I am thinking that this language may have been added to your cache page after your cache was published.

[+dprovan]

Sounds like a great hotel with lots of business and plenty of clients, so you definitely shouldn't worry about the occasional passer-by taking several TBs. That just means the hotel is working! You're the one that wanted a TB hotel, so you're the only one with a responsibility to keep it stocked with TBs. The question you need to ask yourself is, "If the TB count gets to low, what can I do to bring it up?" The answer is not to force people to put TBs into your hotel. You've already made the hotel attractive enough to encourage people to leave TBs, but that's as far as you should go in that direction. If there still aren't enough TBs in the cache for your tastes, then the solution is to launch more of your own TBs there.

 

It sounds like you have a really amazing cache on your hands there, so I'd hate to see you fail to enjoy it simply because someone isn't doing exactly what you want with it. You should measure success and satisfaction based on how many TBs go out of the hotel, never by how many TBs are in the hotel. If someone takes 8 TBs out of your hotel, that's a big win!

[+fuzziebear3]

If you feel some are languishing, feel free to move them out of your hotel and somewhere along their desired path too. If you attend an event, take some of them to the event and share out the wealth.

[+cerberus1]

I know that this is a continuing debate...

It shouldn't be.

Trackables are not trade items (including with other trackables).

If someone could move all from the hotel (as in accomodations for travelers), they're fair game.

[+cerberus1]

I think it is good that you ask for opinions. I am sure you will see a number of them being posted. It is ultimately up to you, and you alone, which or what parts of those responses you will take to heart.

 

If it was me, I'd probably choose this one...

 

Had a travel bug hotel cache been submitted to me for review with the trading restrictions language, I would have asked you to remove that. I am thinking that this language may have been added to your cache page after your cache was published.

[+Uncolored]

Gosh way to rip me to shreds about the word "trading". If there is nothing in the hotel, including swag, then what is the point of the cache? Its just the one-in-one-out rule.

[Keystone]

Trackables are not trade items, and imposing a "trade" rule for trackables is inappropriate, bordering on an Additional Logging Requirement. I strongly advise that you delete that text. There is no such thing as a "one in, one out rule." That is for happy meal toys, not travel bugs.

 

If, in a given week, the number of trackables in your hotel changes from 9 to zero, then you have a successful travel bug hotel. You should be happy that you helped those nine trackables along in their journeys. A travel bug hotel that has four TB's stuck in the bottom of the container for a year is a failure. A travel bug hotel that has zero trackables for a short period of time is a success.

 

None of this advice takes away from the fact that your hotel is seeing good circulation and that you've done a good job in hiding and maintaining your hotel cache.

[+Uncolored]

Keystone,

I deleted that text on my cache.

I didn't realize that having it emptied was a good sign of a successful hotel. You are right, even if I did have 0 TBs in my hotel for a period of time, I would probably get at least one TB in the hotel within two weeks.

I suppose that I am learning as I go along.

[+cerberus1]

Thank you for taking constructive criticism well. If only older folks would respond like that.

Yours is the first PMO cache I've looked at in years (had to see what so many Favs was about...).

Awesome job on your Hotel !

[+JesandTodd]

Thank you for taking constructive criticism well. If only older folks would respond like that.

Yours is the first PMO cache I've looked at in years (had to see what so many Favs was about...).

Awesome job on your Hotel !

 

Agree with all that. It does look like an awesome, successful hotel, with a very attentive owner.

[+Uncolored]

Thank you

I appreciated your feedback. I learned some things that I didn't know previously.

[Keystone]

Bravo to you, Uncolored. I hope you hide some more awesome caches like the one we talked about here. Thanks for listening to my advice.

[+TheHarleyRebel]

Leave it be, TB's are free! If you put restrictions this will happen! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=fb80de64-3faa-493b-b53f-6a9e823dba79 (That does bring the question up why this cache was published in the first place)

[+cerberus1]

Leave it be, TB's are free! If you put restrictions this will happen! http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=fb80de64-3faa-493b-b53f-6a9e823dba79 (That does bring the question up why this cache was published in the first place)

Did you read the whole thread?

The OP made a mistake and has learned from it.

[+keylev]

Wow just had to look this one up to see what it was all about... wish there was a tb hotel near me... sounds so awesome. Is the cache in plain sight just like in the pictures or is it further covered up?

[+Uncolored]

Is the cache in plain sight just like in the pictures or is it further covered up?

 

It's in plain sight with a heavy duty, muggle proof lock.

[+Quossum]

I had to go look, too. That is an amazing cache! Props for the idea and keeping it up.

 

As previously noted, don't worry about cachers "cleaning it out," especially since you've made it a puzzle cache. In my experience, it seems like only serious cachers even bother looking at those, so it's probably a safe bet that anyone taking several bugs intends to move them along. My husband and I like moving bugs. If we were right before a vacation, we might have visited and done the same thing, with full intentions of spreading the bugs we took all along our route. If we were just "caching around," we would probably have done the swap a bug for a bug thing.

 

I hope you manage to keep up this cache. The cachers in the area will know it's a great place to get bugs moving. Good job!

 

--Q

[+Seaglass Pirates]

I raided a travel bug hotel and took every last one of them. All 9 in one go. A TB as you stated is not your property. Therefore you have no say in its movements. You have created a cache based on what you want. This is not what the TB wants. And the TB as you aknowledge does not belong to you. When releasing a TB a mission is set or not. But it's name tells you all you need to know. 'Travel' bug not trade item. If a hotel requires a one in one out system this against TB guidelines. Geocaching guidelines and fairness to the owner of a TB. Someone always says "well what's the difference between someone having a TB in a cache that does not get visited very often or a hotel. It stills spends the same amount of time there. This is not true and is immeasurable. What does NOT happen with a normal traditional cache is someone hoovering up TB's on their travels and placing them in their hotel for others to trade or discover. This is not your right as ... You quite clearly state ... The TB does not belong to you and you get that. You are a geocacher and cache owner NOT a TB russler. And to do so is to interfere with the random nature of its movements.

 

You say you don't want to cause a problem but you don't want to be miserable either. Your feelings are irrelevant when it comes to someone else's property unfortunately.

[+dprovan]

I raided a travel bug hotel and took every last one of them. All 9 in one go. A TB as you stated is not your property. Therefore you have no say in its movements. You have created a cache based on what you want. This is not what the TB wants. And the TB as you aknowledge does not belong to you.

It's true that she has no say, and she's removed any such claims from the listing, I think. That doesn't mean that the cacher that shows up a few minutes after you won't still think you're a jerk. And it doesn't mean the TOs won't think you're a jerk if it takes you a while to drop 9 TBs.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

I raided a travel bug hotel and took every last one of them. All 9 in one go. A TB as you stated is not your property. Therefore you have no say in its movements. You have created a cache based on what you want. This is not what the TB wants. And the TB as you aknowledge does not belong to you.

It's true that she has no say, and she's removed any such claims from the listing, I think. That doesn't mean that the cacher that shows up a few minutes after you won't still think you're a jerk. And it doesn't mean the TOs won't think you're a jerk if it takes you a while to drop 9 TBs.

 

I'm truly crushed. I'll live.

[+Uncolored]

I raided a travel bug hotel and took every last one of them. All 9 in one go. A TB as you stated is not your property. Therefore you have no say in its movements. You have created a cache based on what you want. This is not what the TB wants. And the TB as you aknowledge does not belong to you. When releasing a TB a mission is set or not. But it's name tells you all you need to know. 'Travel' bug not trade item. If a hotel requires a one in one out system this against TB guidelines. Geocaching guidelines and fairness to the owner of a TB. Someone always says "well what's the difference between someone having a TB in a cache that does not get visited very often or a hotel. It stills spends the same amount of time there. This is not true and is immeasurable. What does NOT happen with a normal traditional cache is someone hoovering up TB's on their travels and placing them in their hotel for others to trade or discover. This is not your right as ... You quite clearly state ... The TB does not belong to you and you get that. You are a geocacher and cache owner NOT a TB russler. And to do so is to interfere with the random nature of its movements.

 

You say you don't want to cause a problem but you don't want to be miserable either. Your feelings are irrelevant when it comes to someone else's property unfortunately.

 

I'm not sure if you realize how nasty your post sounds. We have already discussed everything that you have just stated. I understand and I changed the description of my cache several days ago. I agree with everyone on this thread and I no longer have that restriction.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

Please don't imply a tone to a factual response. It belittles the purpose of a thread. Which is to learn. You may not like/agree/enjoy any response but as long as it is factual, answers the question which you originally asked and does so according to the rules of the forum, you have nothing to complain about.

[+Walts Hunting]

Please don't imply a tone to a factual response. It belittles the purpose of a thread. Which is to learn. You may not like/agree/enjoy any response but as long as it is factual, answers the question which you originally asked and does so according to the rules of the forum, you have nothing to complain about.

I thought the OP's tone was a lot better than yours. It was clear you only read the first post and not the whole "coming to jesus" that he had. If you had read the thread you would have seen someone who was unaware of the community's feelings come to accept it and change their cache. Kudos to him.

[+JesandTodd]

 

I'm not sure if you realize how nasty your post sounds. We have already discussed everything that you have just stated. I understand and I changed the description of my cache several days ago. I agree with everyone on this thread and I no longer have that restriction.

 

You've done a great job on this thread, and with your cache.

Don't let this craptastic response sway you in any way.

 

Please don't imply a tone to a factual response. It belittles the purpose of a thread. Which is to learn. You may not like/agree/enjoy any response but as long as it is factual, answers the question which you originally asked and does so according to the rules of the forum, you have nothing to complain about.

 

I don't think ANYBODY liked/agreed/enjoyed your response. This is a short thread. Was it really so hard to read up BEFORE you post your negative, and highly unnecessary response?

 

As far as the purpose of this thread....it has been accomplished LONG ago. Time to take a look in the mirror when it comes to belitteling.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

Awww and you are clearly such gentle kindly souls.

 

Anyway "he" is actually a she. Yes I did read the whole thread. It was not a "long time ago" don't be dramatic. It started on the 17th ... any and all opinions are valid and helpful in progressing the learning process. Especially when it comes to new cachers. You are forgetting that the OP title was a question and anyone can answer that. As per the rules of this very forum.

 

You have taken an angry tone from my post but none was intended. In fact the angry tone you assume is there is a reflection of how you percieve the world around you. You could have just as easily asked if I was ranting but instead you chose your responses ...

 

Information missing from the thread thus far was ...

 

References to geocaching guidelines with regard to treatment of TB's. If YOU had read my response correctly you would notice that I wrote that. I wrote it because opinion is valid until it replaced with rules regarding the subject matter.

 

Also missing from the thread was ...

 

NOT keeping a TB for longer than two weeks unless you have the TO's permission or unless you will be helping its mission to do so.

 

Fairly valid and important to pass that on to a new cacher.

 

"He changed the cache page to remove the one in one out rule". Not until it was pointed out that it was unlikely to have been published if she had not removed it. And while this is great it would have been more helpful to her to show a link to the rules/guidelines and show her why instead of ... her words ... "Ripping her to shreds". Although I think that is a rather ... exagerated ... opinion and interpretation of what happened.

 

All you need to know "everything on this section of the site is to be taken in the broadest possible interpretation" paraphrasing from the rules section of groundspeaks T&C's ... This includes the FAQ's section regarding TB's which states ... again from memory ... "Do not keep a TB for longer than two weeks they are meant to travel unless you have the owners permission to do so. Unless by doing so you think you can help it accoumish it's mission but it would be polite to contact the owner first". A TB hotel is technically a traditional cache and technically a TB in it is NOT being held but please don't say this does not happen. It would have with this hotel had the owner not asked the question. It still happens with one near us despite the fact that they had it closed down by the reviewer until they changed the description. And they STILL have their Rule on the log book. 4 at all times to be left. You can tell from the logs "nice hotel, shame we were not allowed to take any TB's to move them on but we had none to trade".

 

Rules ... Use them, pass them on.

 

This post IS on topic guys. Unlike the responses from you ... to me.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Seaglass Pirates

[The Peterson Finders]

Glad I ran across this topic. There is a TB Hotel near by with language like that.... turns it into a prison. I never thought about it that way.

 

Guess I'll go free the inmates today.... and then flag the cache as needing maintenance???? That the right thing to do in this case?

Edited January 24, 2014 by The Peterson Finders

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Guess I'll go free the inmates today.... and then flag the cache as needing maintenance???? That the right thing to do in this case?

Just because the cache page shows it to be what we call a "prison"? No, do not flag it with a NM -- certainly not for that reason.

A Needs Maintenance would be used for a cache that needs maintenance, not a cache page that states something which you may not agree with.

 

At least I wouldn't. It sounds like a good way to make enemies.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Gitchee-Gummee

[The Peterson Finders]

 

Just because the cache page shows it to be what we call a "prison"? No, do not flag it with a NM -- certainly not for that reason.

A Needs Maintenance would be used for a cache that needs maintenance, not a cache page that states something which you may not agree with.

 

What's right action then? I thought about moving them last time to a different cache. Here's the cache I'm talking about.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

It may be that like the OP the hotel owner is working on mistaken rules and ideas associated with how to run one. Logging a NM wouldn't be the way. Here in the UK what usually happens is that the owner gets a polite email pointing them in the right direction. They will either send you an abusive response or be very surprised and alter the details of their page. For the sake of the community it might be as well to email them the details.

 

If they decide to ignore it or say they understand but blah blah blah then pass on the details to your local reviewer. It's up to you if you perform a daring hotel raid lol. I would. My folks have one. I say have one. They have a large container situated near a very public landmark smugglers haunt. It isn't a TB hotel but is used as one and refered to as one. Numerous times people empty it to the bones. Numerous times they never log the TB and it is never seen again. Numerous times she gets emails telling her off. And she gets numerous complaints about it supposedly having TB s in there that are not there. It's not her fault as it's not a TB hotel. Just a cache that she planted years ago that has gone that way.

 

Luckily now she can at least mark the TB's missing herself which you never used to be able to do.

[+Seaglass Pirates]

From the TB frequently asked questions section in Groundspeaks Help Centre

 

"Is there any Travel Bug etiquette?

Use the Golden Rule when you find a Travel Bug. Most owners would rather see their Travel Bug do a lot of travelling, so try not to hold on to a Travel Bug for too long. If you plan on holding onto the bug for more than 2 weeks, make sure to send a courtesy email to the owner letting them know."

 

Help Centre Linky

 

From a Bookmark within Groundspeak -

 

Travel Bug Rules for Travel Bug Hotel Owners (shared, public)

List Owner: FunnyNose

 

9 (75%) out of 12 users found this list useful. Rate This Bookmark List

 

Many consider that requiring a one-TB-for-one-TB trade in a cache like holding them hostage; caches that do this are termed "Travel Bug prisons". Travel Bug and geocoin owners pay for their trackables to travel, not to sit in a cache to satisfy the expectations of either the cache owner or assorted visitors. If a cacher can advance the goal of every TB and coin in the cache, and wants to do it, then that cacher would be right to take them all.

Travel bugs belong to the Travel Bug owner. You cannot dictate that they must stay in a cache until a trade can be made. They are not yours to rule over. If a cacher wants to trade for a TB, take a TB and not leave one, or drop one off and not take one, that's how the game is played. You cannot hold them hostage until someone comes along with another travel bug to get it out of jail. If your cache is well placed, unlikely to be muggled, and easy to get to on a cacher's way through town, it will work regardless of rules.

 

Linky

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

 

Just because the cache page shows it to be what we call a "prison"? No, do not flag it with a NM -- certainly not for that reason.

A Needs Maintenance would be used for a cache that needs maintenance, not a cache page that states something which you may not agree with.

 

What's right action then? I thought about moving them last time to a different cache. Here's the cache I'm talking about.

Moving the trackables is fine... but I think flagging the cache with a NM just may be a bit overboard if the reason for the flag is because the CO attempts to dictate a "trade requirement". It has little (or nothing) to do with the cache needing maintenance.

 

On the other hand... if you want to move the trackables just to spite the CO... well, that sort of sounds like therapy just may be in order.

Move the trackables because they need to move -- don't do it for "other" reasons.

[The Peterson Finders]

 

 

- Travel Bug Rules for Travel Bug Hotel Owners (shared, public)

 

That's pretty good, thank you.

Edited January 24, 2014 by The Peterson Finders

[The Peterson Finders]

Move the trackables because they need to move -- don't do it for "other" reasons.

 

Thank you for all your help!

[+NanCycle]

This one was a blatant example of TB Prison. (Now archived)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC29PQQ_ladybugs-skagway-travel-bug-coin-exchange-cache?guid=264cc34b-bb40-41bf-b18d-2d6884c29d08

 

When a TB of mine landed in that cache I posted a note saying that finders had MY permission to take MY Tb without leaving one in return.

 

A note to finders of this cache: One of the trackables in here belongs to me--My Wyoming Traveler. As owner of this Travel Bug, I give you permission to retrieve it from this cache (in fact, I request that you retrieve it from this cache), whether or not you have another trackable to trade for it. I ask only that you place it in another cache as soon as you can, and that you log its activities. Thank you for moving travelers along.

 

The CO deleted my post and the following email exchange ensued:

 

Do whatever you want but I will not remove the language. It is an exchange/trade cache ONLY.

in it.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:44:27 +0000

From: donald-nancy@comcast.net

To: jocmcost@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: [GEO] Ladybug JMC contacting DoubleBent from Geocaching.com

 

I think it would be a shame if you removed the whole cache, which people seem to like, but cache owners are not allowed to make rules that restrict the free movement of travelers. Please remove that language from your cache page, or I will report it to the reviewers.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching.com>

To: donald-nancy@comcast.net

Sent: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:01:06 -0000 (UTC)

Subject: [GEO] Ladybug JMC contacting DoubleBent from Geocaching.com

 

Sorry I deleted your log. U will have to log your find again. The rules of the cache are very simple. Whoever takes a trackable has to replace it with another. Plain and simple. Please do not reference that you don't care if whoever takes it does not replace it with another trackable or I will remove it again. I am trying to get people to follow the rules of this cache or I am going to remove it from Skagway which will be a shame as so many people visit it.

 

Thanking you in advance!

 

Ladybug

 

In this case, I think the cache was being raided repeatedly by a local kid who probably has a box full of TBs & coins in the back of his closet, because whenever the CO would restock the cache, it would be empty again within days.

[+Uncolored]

This one was a blatant example of TB Prison. (Now archived)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC29PQQ_ladybugs-skagway-travel-bug-coin-exchange-cache?guid=264cc34b-bb40-41bf-b18d-2d6884c29d08

 

When a TB of mine landed in that cache I posted a note saying that finders had MY permission to take MY Tb without leaving one in return.

 

A note to finders of this cache: One of the trackables in here belongs to me--My Wyoming Traveler. As owner of this Travel Bug, I give you permission to retrieve it from this cache (in fact, I request that you retrieve it from this cache), whether or not you have another trackable to trade for it. I ask only that you place it in another cache as soon as you can, and that you log its activities. Thank you for moving travelers along.

 

The CO deleted my post and the following email exchange ensued:

 

Do whatever you want but I will not remove the language. It is an exchange/trade cache ONLY.

in it.

 

Thanks NanCycle, I already made adjustments to my cache listing. It is already fixed and I already agree with everyone. I don't have a TB prison.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:44:27 +0000

From: donald-nancy@comcast.net

To: jocmcost@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: [GEO] Ladybug JMC contacting DoubleBent from Geocaching.com

 

I think it would be a shame if you removed the whole cache, which people seem to like, but cache owners are not allowed to make rules that restrict the free movement of travelers. Please remove that language from your cache page, or I will report it to the reviewers.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching.com>

To: donald-nancy@comcast.net

Sent: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:01:06 -0000 (UTC)

Subject: [GEO] Ladybug JMC contacting DoubleBent from Geocaching.com

 

Sorry I deleted your log. U will have to log your find again. The rules of the cache are very simple. Whoever takes a trackable has to replace it with another. Plain and simple. Please do not reference that you don't care if whoever takes it does not replace it with another trackable or I will remove it again. I am trying to get people to follow the rules of this cache or I am going to remove it from Skagway which will be a shame as so many people visit it.

 

Thanking you in advance!

 

Ladybug

 

In this case, I think the cache was being raided repeatedly by a local kid who probably has a box full of TBs & coins in the back of his closet, because whenever the CO would restock the cache, it would be empty again within days.

 

Thanks NanCycle, I already made adjustments to my cache listing. I agree with everyone and I don't have a cache prison.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Uncolored

[+Uncolored]

Awww and you are clearly such gentle kindly souls.

 

Anyway "he" is actually a she. Yes I did read the whole thread. It was not a "long time ago" don't be dramatic. It started on the 17th ... any and all opinions are valid and helpful in progressing the learning process. Especially when it comes to new cachers. You are forgetting that the OP title was a question and anyone can answer that. As per the rules of this very forum.

 

You have taken an angry tone from my post but none was intended. In fact the angry tone you assume is there is a reflection of how you percieve the world around you. You could have just as easily asked if I was ranting but instead you chose your responses ...

 

Information missing from the thread thus far was ...

 

References to geocaching guidelines with regard to treatment of TB's. If YOU had read my response correctly you would notice that I wrote that. I wrote it because opinion is valid until it replaced with rules regarding the subject matter.

 

Also missing from the thread was ...

 

NOT keeping a TB for longer than two weeks unless you have the TO's permission or unless you will be helping its mission to do so.

 

Fairly valid and important to pass that on to a new cacher.

 

"He changed the cache page to remove the one in one out rule". Not until it was pointed out that it was unlikely to have been published if she had not removed it. And while this is great it would have been more helpful to her to show a link to the rules/guidelines and show her why instead of ... her words ... "Ripping her to shreds". Although I think that is a rather ... exagerated ... opinion and interpretation of what happened.

 

All you need to know "everything on this section of the site is to be taken in the broadest possible interpretation" paraphrasing from the rules section of groundspeaks T&C's ... This includes the FAQ's section regarding TB's which states ... again from memory ... "Do not keep a TB for longer than two weeks they are meant to travel unless you have the owners permission to do so. Unless by doing so you think you can help it accoumish it's mission but it would be polite to contact the owner first". A TB hotel is technically a traditional cache and technically a TB in it is NOT being held but please don't say this does not happen. It would have with this hotel had the owner not asked the question. It still happens with one near us despite the fact that they had it closed down by the reviewer until they changed the description. And they STILL have their Rule on the log book. 4 at all times to be left. You can tell from the logs "nice hotel, shame we were not allowed to take any TB's to move them on but we had none to trade".

 

Rules ... Use them, pass them on.

 

This post IS on topic guys. Unlike the responses from you ... to me.

 

If you are as nasty as you seem on the internet offline, than I feel sorry for you. It wasn't your advice, it was the tone of your posts. I don't take advice from people who are nasty to me.

[+NanCycle]

 

Thanks NanCycle, I already made adjustments to my cache listing. I agree with everyone and I don't have a cache prison.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I did read all the way through the thread and I did read your cache listing. I do commend you on learning from the advice given by experienced cachers--even if some of them didn't seem very nice.

[+Uncolored]

 

Thanks NanCycle, I already made adjustments to my cache listing. I agree with everyone and I don't have a cache prison.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I did read all the way through the thread and I did read your cache listing. I do commend you on learning from the advice given by experienced cachers--even if some of them didn't seem very nice.

 

Thanks Nancy I love your cacher name, I think that it is really cute.

[+Eartha]

Hello Cachers,

This is an important discussion. Let's keep to the subject, and keep personal differences out.

In regards to the trade rule, it is this: Keep them bugs moving!

The OP is running a responsible hotel, and has edited the cache page to comply with the guidelines. This is great. It looks like a good cache that should last a while. Thank you for being a caring cache owner. Some TB "hotels" have been the cause of death for many a TB. We need more responsible innkeepers like the OP.

Oh, and the cache is really adorable!

Eartha

Groundspeak Volunteer

[+hzoi]

We have owned a couple geocoin/TB hotels in the past. Until they turned into targets for people who wanted to steal trackables. Not take them out w/o trading, mind you -- actually abscond with them and never return them to the game, like when we dropped several coins, mostly our own, into a coin hotel and they quickly disappeared. Hadn't had any issues with muggles with that cache at all, so I suspect someone was waiting for a nice coin drop and then grabbed 'em.

 

I enjoy visiting TB hotels, but more and more they seem to be repositories for missing TBs.

 

Nowadays, I will hide caches that are "TB friendly," like our regular size letterbox that's just off the interstate. But I'm not hiding "TB hotels" any more, they just invite disappointment.

 

edit: typos (that's what I get for typing one-handed, I'm being held prisoner by the sleeping baby in my lap)

Edited January 25, 2014 by hzoi