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INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


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Getting a little off topic, but iPhone GPS tends to be MORE accurate than GPS units. In addition to the GPS, they use cellular tower triangulation. In most every situation I've checked against an official Benchmark, the phone won over the GPS (mostly Garmins, but a couple Delorme).

 

Back to the newbies, I actually find the noobs to be better than many of the cachers with 1000s of finds in short periods of time. Chronically logging short logs, log weeks and months late sometimes not correcting the ACTUAL find day, they don't respond to messages, they don't sign the physical logs. They often don't return the cache the way it was when found. So don't blame newbies when so-called advance members often are worse! The App has ZERO to do with it.

Odd... I find almost all of the above to be the exact opposite.

Aside from the phone vs. dedicated GPSr unit argument.

I found the opposite to be true as well, including the phone Vs handheld thing.

The best I've had was the exact same as my handheld GPSr. The only other plus was the quick acquisition of position for the phone, likely due to the tower triangulation assist (they're already watching my every move...).

 

When you can't get a cell signal, nothing is going to beat the handheld GPSr. And, I think that the idea should be that a smartphone is a nice paperless tool one can use. A TOTT. A GPSr and the website are really the primaries, IMHO. The apps are a nice supplement to my game, but I never would have learned what I know by entering the game with only the app.

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Getting a little off topic, but iPhone GPS tends to be MORE accurate than GPS units. In addition to the GPS, they use cellular tower triangulation. In most every situation I've checked against an official Benchmark, the phone won over the GPS (mostly Garmins, but a couple Delorme).

It would be interesting to know what you are measuring comparing the phone and hand-held GPS checked against a "official" benchmark.

 

What are you using for the coordinates or the "official" benchmark? Even the Groundspeak benchmarkiug FAQ makes it clear the coordinates on the "official" datasheet are not always accurate.

What is the difference between "Location Adjusted" and "Location Scaled?"

Simply put, "location adjusted" means that the published coordinates are very accurate, and "location scaled" means that the published coordinates are not very accurate. The published positions for benchmarks with adjusted horizontal coordinates were computed using advanced surveying techniques and are far more accurate than even the finest handheld GPSr can get. The position of a benchmark with "scaled" coordinates was derived by a human in an office by estimating the location of the mark on a topographic map with a scale (ruler). As such, they can be off by 600 feet or more from the actual position though deviations in the 100 - 150 foot range are more common. Your handheld GPS may be very helpful in finding benchmarks with adjusted horizontal coordinates, but can be nearly useless for finding benchmarks with scaled horizontal coordinates. The good news is that only vertical control points have scaled horizontal coordinates. Trying to use your GPS "GOTO" function to find a benchmark with scaled horizontal coordinates will usually lead to frustration and failure.

The aforementioned cell-tower triagulation is not very accurate. Often, as when cell towers are spread out along a highway, dilution of precision renders this value useless.

 

Some phone also use WiFi locations to get get a position. This is even less accurate.

 

These methods are sometimes referred to as assisted GPS (A-GPS). They can help get a GPS location quicker, using the rough information from cell towers or WiFi as an initial position.

 

My guess is that comparing an iPhone to a hand-held GPS what you likely see is that the hand-held gets a position quicker (while the GPS still says "searching for statellites") but this initial position is not going to be very accurate. After waiting a bit, the phone will begin reporting more accurate readings (and the GPS may still be searching for satellites). After waiting some more time, the two devices should return pretty similar and accurate results. Over a little more time, a phone or GPS that uses an augmented signal such as WAAS, can get even better accuracy.

 

The negative view of iPhone GPS by users of hand-helds, is probably due to iPhone users not understanding that the initial position reported by the phone is inaccurate and that you have to wait some time till the reading becomes accurate. Many users of hand held GPS unit turn then on long before arriving at the cache and leave them on all the time while caching. If they were to use the GPS like the phone user do (in order to increase battery life), and turn the GPS on only after arriving a GZ they would find they had no idea at all where to look for several minutes while the GPS searched for satellites. Many iPhone users will be able to find the cache within seconds of turning on the iPhone GPS function, and will have a reasonably accurate position in less time than the hand held generally takes to find the satellites,

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Getting a little off topic, but iPhone GPS tends to be MORE accurate than GPS units. In addition to the GPS, they use cellular tower triangulation. In most every situation I've checked against an official Benchmark, the phone won over the GPS (mostly Garmins, but a couple Delorme).

It would be interesting to know what you are measuring comparing the phone and hand-held GPS checked against a "official" benchmark.

Geodetic Survey Marks/US Geologic Survey. See the benchmark section of geocaching.com to find them.

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PMO listings are for the more avid geocachers and the ones like myself that place and maintain geocache listings and do want to be part of the geocaching community.

I consider myself to be an avid geocacher and not only want to be, but am part of and involved in a few geocaching communities. I place and maintain hides and none are pmo.

What does pmo have to do with being an avid cacher or being "part of the community"?

The community is all of us, not just "the ones like yourself".

- That's insulting to every basic member on this site, who I bet outnumber us.

 

If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

If we wanted improvements...

Their new (sometimes too different for some) ideas keep us from getting stale.

Having a club with only members you know isn't a community.

 

Yeah, I'm a member of a few different geocaching communities also and I have plenty of hides out there that non PM can seek for free. But if you want something better than a urban micro you will have to have Premium Account here. I'm not here hiding geocaches and paying fees for your pleasure, I'm feeding my own addiction to geocaching and Groundspeak has the best product I can find. :blink:

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters
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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

Most basic members in my area are using the GC app.

When we first started, a basic member didn't have to pay anything to start playing this game on the computer and even now, still don't.

With the GC app, they aren't "non-paying" members at all, but cough up ten bucks for the full app. That shows they're interested enough to take that next step.

Eventually, many who stick with it become premium when they learn of pqs, notifications, etc.

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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

 

They have other revenue sources, and I'm of the opinion $30 a year premium memberships are quite a ways down the list of them. And it's a growing company. You don't keep growing if you don't have plenty of revenue coming in. OK, ducking the off-topic brick. :ph34r:

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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

Most basic members in my area are using the GC app.

When we first started, a basic member didn't have to pay anything to start playing this game on the computer and even now, still don't.

With the GC app, they aren't "non-paying" members at all, but cough up ten bucks for the full app. That shows they're interested enough to take that next step.

Eventually, many who stick with it become premium when they learn of pqs, notifications, etc.

 

Ah - I misunderstood slightly - I thought we were talking purely about intro app peeps - my bad :)

 

Although if we're splitting hairs the dollars they hand over for the app don't constitute membership cash - they are a one-off payment for an app.

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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

Most basic members in my area are using the GC app.

When we first started, a basic member didn't have to pay anything to start playing this game on the computer and even now, still don't.

With the GC app, they aren't "non-paying" members at all, but cough up ten bucks for the full app. That shows they're interested enough to take that next step.

Eventually, many who stick with it become premium when they learn of pqs, notifications, etc.

 

Ah - I misunderstood slightly - I thought we were talking purely about intro app peeps - my bad :)

 

Although if we're splitting hairs the dollars they hand over for the app don't constitute membership cash - they are a one-off payment for an app.

This thread is about the GC intro app, designed to get phone users to go further, by buying the full app.

Some eventually go premium, buy trackables, etc.

 

My post was in response to anothers off-topic view on what PMO listings meant to him.

- you replied to it. :)

 

As far as membership cash, I'd imagine that with the number of new members now using apps instead of online via computer, the yearly monies taken in by apps alone far exceed premium memberships.

- Of course we'd have to have someone in the company respond on that, as it's really none of our business. It's theirs.

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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

Most basic members in my area are using the GC app.

When we first started, a basic member didn't have to pay anything to start playing this game on the computer and even now, still don't.

With the GC app, they aren't "non-paying" members at all, but cough up ten bucks for the full app. That shows they're interested enough to take that next step.

Eventually, many who stick with it become premium when they learn of pqs, notifications, etc.

 

Ah - I misunderstood slightly - I thought we were talking purely about intro app peeps - my bad :)

 

Although if we're splitting hairs the dollars they hand over for the app don't constitute membership cash - they are a one-off payment for an app.

This thread is about the GC intro app, designed to get phone users to go further, by buying the full app.

Some eventually go premium, buy trackables, etc.

 

My post was in response to anothers off-topic view on what PMO listings meant to him.

- you replied to it. :)

 

As far as membership cash, I'd imagine that with the number of new members now using apps instead of online via computer, the yearly monies taken in by apps alone far exceed premium memberships.

- Of course we'd have to have someone in the company respond on that, as it's really none of our business. It's theirs.

My post was not off topic. Some of my caches got muggled by some "weekend" smartphone cachers that trashed the area and left NM and DNF's on my listings that were still in place. Some of my listings had been in place for almost two years and were not PMO listings. After the Intro App came out and I experienced the same thing the OP has, I did make my listings PMO. I can't help that you misunderstood my post, but the geocaching community to me is the people like myself that show up and host events and take part in maintaining geocache listings. B) And there are more than one geocacher in my household, and yes they use the Intro App on their smartphone but they are not new to geocaching. We also shop at Groundspeak and I am a very avid geocoin collector, but you have to see me at an event to discover one of them. :D

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My post was not off topic. Some of my caches got muggled by some "weekend" smartphone cachers that trashed the area and left NM and DNF's on my listings that were still in place. Some of my listings had been in place for almost two years and were not PMO listings. After the Intro App came out and I experienced the same thing the OP has, I did make my listings PMO. I can't help that you misunderstood my post, but the geocaching community to me is the people like myself that show up and host events and take part in maintaining geocache listings. B) And there are more than one geocacher in my household, and yes they use the Intro App on their smartphone but they are not new to geocaching. We also shop at Groundspeak and I am a very avid geocoin collector, but you have to see me at an event to discover one of them. :D

 

You call them "weekend smartphone cachers," then like so many others here, proceed to badmouth an entire group of cachers who just so happen to play with a smartphone. I would venture to say the people you describe, ones who muggle your caches, trash the area, and leave false NM & DNF logs, are not cachers at all. They're just bad people who set out to do destructive things to innocent people. They've found an easy and free way (the intro app) to do it. So many on this forum lump all smartphone cachers into the same group as the bad ones. You generalize too much. I'm willing to bet the amount of responsible, quality smartphone cachers far outnumber the bad ones. Many people here seem like they won't be happy unless smartphones are eliminated from the game entirely. If you ask me, people like that, those with a holier-than-thou attitude, do just as much to hurt the game as bad cachers. People come to these forums for help and to join a community of people who enjoy a game that not many even know about. Instead they encounter the same people complaining over & over again about smartphone cachers, newcomers and people who imply their way of play should be the only way. In my opinion, the powers that be at Geo HQ should do more to quell silly "uprisings" like this. You're not offering anything constructive by constantly creating threads about how bad you think smartphone and new cachers are. Go ahead, make your caches PMO, please do. Then those CO's will complain that not enough people are logging their caches. But at least the rest of us can go on enjoying a game without a bunch of caching primadonnas making it worse.

 

It is the responsibility of each player, regardless of the device they use to play, to educate themselves on how to properly play this game. Since smartphones have become so prevalent in society, it has put a Geocaching device in the hands of many, many more people. Such an influx of new users is bound to give birth to people who don't do enough to play properly. But imagine a world where handheld GPS devices were cheap and as prevalent as smartphones...you'd have the same number of new additions to this game and the same problems. Don't blame the device, blame the person. The overwhelming generalization of all smartphone cachers is sickening.

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My post was not off topic. Some of my caches got muggled by some "weekend" smartphone cachers that trashed the area and left NM and DNF's on my listings that were still in place. Some of my listings had been in place for almost two years and were not PMO listings. After the Intro App came out and I experienced the same thing the OP has, I did make my listings PMO. I can't help that you misunderstood my post, but the geocaching community to me is the people like myself that show up and host events and take part in maintaining geocache listings. B) And there are more than one geocacher in my household, and yes they use the Intro App on their smartphone but they are not new to geocaching. We also shop at Groundspeak and I am a very avid geocoin collector, but you have to see me at an event to discover one of them. :D

 

You call them "weekend smartphone cachers," then like so many others here, proceed to badmouth an entire group of cachers who just so happen to play with a smartphone. I would venture to say the people you describe, ones who muggle your caches, trash the area, and leave false NM & DNF logs, are not cachers at all. They're just bad people who set out to do destructive things to innocent people. They've found an easy and free way (the intro app) to do it. So many on this forum lump all smartphone cachers into the same group as the bad ones. You generalize too much. I'm willing to bet the amount of responsible, quality smartphone cachers far outnumber the bad ones. Many people here seem like they won't be happy unless smartphones are eliminated from the game entirely. If you ask me, people like that, those with a holier-than-thou attitude, do just as much to hurt the game as bad cachers. People come to these forums for help and to join a community of people who enjoy a game that not many even know about. Instead they encounter the same people complaining over & over again about smartphone cachers, newcomers and people who imply their way of play should be the only way. In my opinion, the powers that be at Geo HQ should do more to quell silly "uprisings" like this. You're not offering anything constructive by constantly creating threads about how bad you think smartphone and new cachers are. Go ahead, make your caches PMO, please do. Then those CO's will complain that not enough people are logging their caches. But at least the rest of us can go on enjoying a game without a bunch of caching primadonnas making it worse.

 

It is the responsibility of each player, regardless of the device they use to play, to educate themselves on how to properly play this game. Since smartphones have become so prevalent in society, it has put a Geocaching device in the hands of many, many more people. Such an influx of new users is bound to give birth to people who don't do enough to play properly. But imagine a world where handheld GPS devices were cheap and as prevalent as smartphones...you'd have the same number of new additions to this game and the same problems. Don't blame the device, blame the person. The overwhelming generalization of all smartphone cachers is sickening.

I have nothing against members that use a smartphone, I have a smartphone too. My friends that host events and have 10K finds and hides that number in the 1000's, we have each other on speed dial even if we need a hint locating a geocache. :laughing: I'm not blaming a device, but yes, the bad people that have muggled my geocaches were smartphone users and were using the intro app. They only hit my beginner level non PMO caches and left the higher rated listings alone because they were not on the intro app I suppose? :unsure: I too once was a PM that disliked PMO hides, but I got over it and enjoy them now. Trust me, if you can afford a smartphone you can afford to be a PM here also. And if you want to play for free there are other listing services that don't have PMO geocaches and I have some of my same PMO listings published there too, but not too many people use the other listing services because they do not compare to what we have here. We only use one PM account in my household, but we do have quite a few hides for basic members too. :) I would like to see a Intro App for Waymarking, we need more Waymarkers. :lol: I love Virtual Caches/Waymarks, and they are free. :D

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You call them "weekend smartphone cachers," then like so many others here, proceed to badmouth an entire group of cachers who just so happen to play with a smartphone. I would venture to say the people you describe, ones who muggle your caches, trash the area, and leave false NM & DNF logs, are not cachers at all. They're just bad people who set out to do destructive things to innocent people. They've found an easy and free way (the intro app) to do it. So many on this forum lump all smartphone cachers into the same group as the bad ones. You generalize too much. I'm willing to bet the amount of responsible, quality smartphone cachers far outnumber the bad ones.

...

It is the responsibility of each player, regardless of the device they use to play, to educate themselves on how to properly play this game. Since smartphones have become so prevalent in society, it has put a Geocaching device in the hands of many, many more people. Such an influx of new users is bound to give birth to people who don't do enough to play properly. But imagine a world where handheld GPS devices were cheap and as prevalent as smartphones...you'd have the same number of new additions to this game and the same problems. Don't blame the device, blame the person. The overwhelming generalization of all smartphone cachers is sickening.

This.

 

My guess is that comparing an iPhone to a hand-held GPS what you likely see is that the hand-held gets a position quicker (while the GPS still says "searching for statellites") but this initial position is not going to be very accurate. After waiting a bit, the phone will begin reporting more accurate readings (and the GPS may still be searching for satellites). After waiting some more time, the two devices should return pretty similar and accurate results. Over a little more time, a phone or GPS that uses an augmented signal such as WAAS, can get even better accuracy.

Once again, more specifics are needed. You can't simply compare "smartphones" to "handhelds". There are vast arrays of models for both, spanning a wide range of GPS capabilities. To generalize either class of device does a disservice to both. Even "iPhone" to "handheld" isn't fair, because there are such a wide variety of iOS devices with awful to spectacular GPS capability, just as with handheld GPSs.

 

Personally, I think the Intro App, actually creates more harm than good, as far as geocachers go... as far as Groundspeak goes it does more good... more geocachers = more money for them. Probably the same approach I might take if'n it were my business.

I've never liked comments with the implication that Groundspeak only cares about money. Clearly they do not, and making a comment like that isn't productive to the discussion. Yes, more geocachers could mean more potential revenue - but the intro app is far from any guarantee that they will make any more money from new users. On the contrary, the way it is now, users who use the app and never or rarely visit the site, will be costing Groundspeak money, not making them money. Without requiring anyone to pay for a premium membership, every new user is by default a cost on the system, not a revenue. Website ads raise negligible funds in the grand scheme.

I would not say Groundspeak only does things to make more money. I would say that the staff Groundspeak pays to ensure it's a financially successful business might; but everyone else? They work for Groundspeak (presumably) because they love what they do and want geocaching to remain an attractive, fun, and family friendly game for everyone who chooses to take up the hobby.

 

The INTRO app was their way of allowing new players in a smartphone generation to make a smoother transition into the hobby.

So the question is, how can the INTRO app continue to be a welcoming, educational introductory app, while not making the hobby more frustrating for those who've already taken it up regularly?

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. You generalize too much. I'm willing to bet the amount of responsible, quality smartphone cachers far outnumber the bad ones. Many people here seem like they won't be happy unless smartphones are eliminated from the game entirely. If you ask me, people like that, those with a holier-than-thou attitude, do just as much to hurt the game as bad cachers. People come to these forums for help and to join a community of people who enjoy a game that not many even know about. Instead they encounter the same people complaining over & over again about smartphone cachers, newcomers and people who imply their way of play should be the only way. In my opinion, the powers that be at Geo HQ should do more to quell silly "uprisings" like this. You're not offering anything constructive by constantly creating threads about how bad you think smartphone and new cachers are. Go ahead, make your caches PMO, please do. Then those CO's will complain that not enough people are logging their caches. But at least the rest of us can go on enjoying a game without a bunch of caching primadonnas making it worse.

 

Absolutely. Perfectly said.

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My post was not off topic. Some of my caches got muggled by some "weekend" smartphone cachers that trashed the area and left NM and DNF's on my listings that were still in place. Some of my listings had been in place for almost two years and were not PMO listings. After the Intro App came out and I experienced the same thing the OP has, I did make my listings PMO. I can't help that you misunderstood my post, but the geocaching community to me is the people like myself that show up and host events and take part in maintaining geocache listings. B) And there are more than one geocacher in my household, and yes they use the Intro App on their smartphone but they are not new to geocaching. We also shop at Groundspeak and I am a very avid geocoin collector, but you have to see me at an event to discover one of them. :D

This just sounds like you are trying to say you are more important than the new person. Anyone who participates is the same. Doesn't matter if you have 1000 finds or 10 finds.

 

This whole thread, blaming newbies for issues that you have with the game itself isn't going to solve your dissatisfaction. Probably just time to take a break and find a new hobby.

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My post was not off topic. Some of my caches got muggled by some "weekend" smartphone cachers that trashed the area and left NM and DNF's on my listings that were still in place. Some of my listings had been in place for almost two years and were not PMO listings. After the Intro App came out and I experienced the same thing the OP has, I did make my listings PMO. I can't help that you misunderstood my post, but the geocaching community to me is the people like myself that show up and host events and take part in maintaining geocache listings. B) And there are more than one geocacher in my household, and yes they use the Intro App on their smartphone but they are not new to geocaching. We also shop at Groundspeak and I am a very avid geocoin collector, but you have to see me at an event to discover one of them. :D

This just sounds like you are trying to say you are more important than the new person. Anyone who participates is the same. Doesn't matter if you have 1000 finds or 10 finds.

 

This whole thread, blaming newbies for issues that you have with the game itself isn't going to solve your dissatisfaction. Probably just time to take a break and find a new hobby.

I'm sure that you are correct, it's much easier to agree than attempting to disagree with you anyway.... :) I still enjoy hiding geocaches, but I have archived several lately due to muggles. Remember that this is not MY thread, I just posted in it. I have not posted in the forums in some while because someone always attempts to twist words to make them into what they want and not what the poster is attempting to convey. I like PMO listings for many reasons, but the topic here is the Intro App and the experience that I have had with it. And you are correct about anyone who participates is the same and it doesn't matter if you have 1000 finds or 10 finds. I took a long hard look at my listings here and most members that are logging my listings are PM's already, but the ones that I have had bad experiences with are noobs with smartphones. :laughing: I do have a new hobby, it's called Waymarking. :anicute:

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. You generalize too much. I'm willing to bet the amount of responsible, quality smartphone cachers far outnumber the bad ones. Many people here seem like they won't be happy unless smartphones are eliminated from the game entirely. If you ask me, people like that, those with a holier-than-thou attitude, do just as much to hurt the game as bad cachers. People come to these forums for help and to join a community of people who enjoy a game that not many even know about. Instead they encounter the same people complaining over & over again about smartphone cachers, newcomers and people who imply their way of play should be the only way. In my opinion, the powers that be at Geo HQ should do more to quell silly "uprisings" like this. You're not offering anything constructive by constantly creating threads about how bad you think smartphone and new cachers are. Go ahead, make your caches PMO, please do. Then those CO's will complain that not enough people are logging their caches. But at least the rest of us can go on enjoying a game without a bunch of caching primadonnas making it worse.

 

Absolutely. Perfectly said.

 

It was an epic rant o' angst. However, it in no way, shape or form has anything to do with the INTRO APP. Which is what makes it a rant o' angst, I suppose. :o

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I'm sure that you are correct, it's much easier to agree than attempting to disagree with you anyway.... :) I still enjoy hiding geocaches, but I have archived several lately due to muggles. Remember that this is not MY thread, I just posted in it. I have not posted in the forums in some while because someone always attempts to twist words to make them into what they want and not what the poster is attempting to convey. I like PMO listings for many reasons, but the topic here is the Intro App and the experience that I have had with it. And you are correct about anyone who participates is the same and it doesn't matter if you have 1000 finds or 10 finds. I took a long hard look at my listings here and most members that are logging my listings are PM's already, but the ones that I have had bad experiences with are noobs with smartphones. :laughing: I do have a new hobby, it's called Waymarking. :anicute:

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Not the point.

 

Threads are the communities, it doesn't matter who started them. There is rules and such, but nothing about ownership

 

Anecdotal evidence (your personal experience) doesn't make the rule. It is fine to share, as others may/may not have the same experience (and why one should always feel free to share). However, it is not logical to state things in terms of fact unless there is facts that support it. If anyone can PROVE that the Intro App is cause the problem as a whole, then by all means. Otherwise it is just conjecture.

 

I admit...your posts probably set me off a little more than most because of the offensive symbolism in your avatar image, but that is too off topic to get into here, but wanted to explain that in case you felt I targeted you more than others.

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I'm sure that you are correct, it's much easier to agree than attempting to disagree with you anyway.... :) I still enjoy hiding geocaches, but I have archived several lately due to muggles. Remember that this is not MY thread, I just posted in it. I have not posted in the forums in some while because someone always attempts to twist words to make them into what they want and not what the poster is attempting to convey. I like PMO listings for many reasons, but the topic here is the Intro App and the experience that I have had with it. And you are correct about anyone who participates is the same and it doesn't matter if you have 1000 finds or 10 finds. I took a long hard look at my listings here and most members that are logging my listings are PM's already, but the ones that I have had bad experiences with are noobs with smartphones. :laughing: I do have a new hobby, it's called Waymarking. :anicute:

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Not the point.

 

Threads are the communities, it doesn't matter who started them. There is rules and such, but nothing about ownership

 

Anecdotal evidence (your personal experience) doesn't make the rule. It is fine to share, as others may/may not have the same experience (and why one should always feel free to share). However, it is not logical to state things in terms of fact unless there is facts that support it. If anyone can PROVE that the Intro App is cause the problem as a whole, then by all means. Otherwise it is just conjecture.

 

I admit...your posts probably set me off a little more than most because of the offensive symbolism in your avatar image, but that is too off topic to get into here, but wanted to explain that in case you felt I targeted you more than others.

Based only on my personal experience alone and downloading the Intro App to my son's smartphone, my listings and other members listings were the only ones damaged by a new account that lasted less than 30 days and only had a few finds. My coordinates were within 7-12 feet, but a good 30 feet away in a parking lot a pile of landscaping rocks were over-turned and some tossed into the adjoining property yard. These listings effected were all on the Intro App, and geocaches nearby with a higher rating were not searched for so I assume it was some kid with a smartphone and the Intro App. Makes sense to me anyway. :unsure: If I place a geocache I ask for permission, and I have plenty in State Parks where I have to fill out permits and pay fees to hide a geocache for others to seek, plus the expense of the container and the official geocache sticker unless provided by the State Park system like the ones here in the Commonwealth, then the write in the rain note pad and stock it with swag.......... so point is if someone logs a NM on my listing I go and check to see what the problem is. I have had more caches stolen than you have ever taken the time to give back to geocaching, so yes you simply singled me out because of my avatar. :( So you judged me because of my avatar and came down hard on me without considering my experience as a geocacher or my knowledge of the Intro App? Wow! That is hard to believe from an educated person. I did not know that Possums were offensive to anyone. :unsure: We have lot's of them around here down South. :D Have a nice day. :)

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Which brings me back to the point system for Beginner-rated caches.

Also providing each CO the option to keep their cache excluded from the possible list of Beginner-friendly caches.

OK, this point system you speak of.....? I know that the D/T rating will keep my listings off of the beginner rated list, and I know that we have a favorite points system, but are the add a favorite point not limited to PM's? :unsure: Fill me in on your idea please. Thanks. :)

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OK, this point system you speak of.....? I know that the D/T rating will keep my listings off of the beginner rated list, and I know that we have a favorite points system, but are the add a favorite point not limited to PM's? :unsure: Fill me in on your idea please. Thanks. :)

 

See this post.

Again, not perfect, just an idea :anicute:

OK, nice idea but it would require work from TPTB, so not likely to happen IMO. :laughing:

My listings under this account are PMO, but I am a parent and my children have basic accounts and maintain listings, even a few EarthCaches. On our basic hides we use the kid friendly attribute and a lower D/T rating. I enjoy the subject of US History and Waymarking has became my GPS related hobby that I enjoy more than geocaching. I find Waymarking more family friendly and their forums much more civil. :) If you take the time to view my listings on this account it's easy to see they are History Caches, and Waymarking has several categories that I find of interest.

My idea would include the family friendly attribute and the lower D/T rating, and I would like a choice to include our listings on a Intro App. Really it would not take much effort on the CO's part to include in the short description the the cache is family friendly, and I'm sure that the Intro App has it's flaws also. The listing that I archived yesterday was a easy find that did not require tearing apart landscaping rocks 30 feet away looking for a square hole as the hint described. :D

 

And BTW, this part of your idea I really like. :)

Also providing each CO the option to keep their cache excluded from the possible list of Beginner-friendly caches.

 

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters
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If you really wanted to be part of the geocaching community, you'd realize that without new folks (most who can't access your pmo hides) and their membership cash, monies needed for improvements could eventually come out of our pockets alone.

 

I think I'm missing something here...

 

If most of the new folks can't access the pmo hides - doesn't that imply that they are non-paying members? As such, I'm struggling work out how their membership cash contributes anything at all :unsure:

 

In fact, if the ratio of non-paying members to paying members is as heavily biased as you suggest toward the side of those not stumping up membership fees I'll wager we won't see improvements at all - rather we'll see the continued propping up of the increasingly creaky (we are told) system :(

Most basic members in my area are using the GC app.

When we first started, a basic member didn't have to pay anything to start playing this game on the computer and even now, still don't.

With the GC app, they aren't "non-paying" members at all, but cough up ten bucks for the full app. That shows they're interested enough to take that next step.

Eventually, many who stick with it become premium when they learn of pqs, notifications, etc.

I think this is where we've nailed it.

 

All someone needs in $10 to head out and play the game in its "full" version (all but PMO caches). No email verification (apparently) needed. No $100+ GPS unit to buy, no website to log onto via your home desktop or laptop to get started or to find a cache.

 

Email verification/validation really becomes the foundational aspect missing from the Apps.

 

Next after that foundation would be considerations for how the Intro App leads new users into the game, as has been described ad naseum in above 7 pages.

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OK, nice idea but it would require work from TPTB, so not likely to happen IMO. :laughing:

Aye, that's the crux of the matter :P

Pretty much any 'fix' will require developmental work from TPTB. The question is, what is their priority on fixing this 'issue'?

 

What is their priority on this? I expect it is "none". It's a matter of marketing. Use the Intro app to cast out to as many prospects as possible, hoping to reel in a small percentage to buy memberships, the full app, and stuff from the store. No different than leaving flyers on car windshields in a parking lot. Maximum exposure for minimum investment.

 

But I still stand by my previous position...

 

No one should be able to see or log anything without a verified email address.

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What is their priority on this? I expect it is "none". It's a matter of marketing. Use the Intro app to cast out to as many prospects as possible, hoping to reel in a small percentage to buy memberships, the full app, and stuff from the store. No different than leaving flyers on car windshields in a parking lot. Maximum exposure for minimum investment.

I commented on that earlier; while I can understand, I can't really agree with painting the entire organization in that negative light...

 

But I still stand by my previous position...

No one should be able to see or log anything without a verified email address.

Agreed :)

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What is their priority on this? I expect it is "none". It's a matter of marketing. Use the Intro app to cast out to as many prospects as possible, hoping to reel in a small percentage to buy memberships, the full app, and stuff from the store. No different than leaving flyers on car windshields in a parking lot. Maximum exposure for minimum investment.

 

I commented on that earlier; while I can understand, I can't really agree with painting the entire organization in that negative light...

 

It's not negative at all. It's business. Geocaching.com and Groundspeak passed being a hobby by and for geocachers years ago. It's well beyond time that folks realized that.

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What is their priority on this? I expect it is "none". It's a matter of marketing. Use the Intro app to cast out to as many prospects as possible, hoping to reel in a small percentage to buy memberships, the full app, and stuff from the store. No different than leaving flyers on car windshields in a parking lot. Maximum exposure for minimum investment.

 

I commented on that earlier; while I can understand, I can't really agree with painting the entire organization in that negative light...

 

It's not negative at all. It's business. Geocaching.com and Groundspeak passed being a hobby by and for geocachers years ago. It's well beyond time that folks realized that.

Geocaching is a business for more than just Groundspeak. Look at geotourism for places like where the Hatfield/McCoy mega event is hosted. Geocachers spend money on hotel rooms, campgrounds, and event items like geocoins and other trackable items not hosted on this site. I even met two Garmin employees and one Groundspeak Lackey there at the Mega event last year. We also enjoyed the Groundspeak Lab Caches in Matewan, WV. but they were not posted on a Intro App. :laughing: One of the Lackey's handed out the coordinates. Many cache hides welcome 1000's of finders from beginner to advanced. My 5/5 listings seem to be popular and attract the more avid geocachers. So our work around is higher D/T ratings and PMO listings. And about the validated email? That is nice but only if you check it every few months. :D So the Intro App only effects a limited few and I can deal with it. B)

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One of the few times I'll disagree with thebruce0. GS cares little about the community and what the community wants unless it affect the bottom line. They are a business, (and have every right to be) and they act as such.

 

Will they ever limit the amount of caches the into app allows? No. Never. They will never eliminate the chance of converting that "weekend" user into a $10 app user.

 

At this point, we can only hope they require email validation. This will be the "best-case-scenario". But the 8 or so pages on limiting the amount of caches, beginner caches, newbie ambassadors...and whatever else we've talked about.....will never be.

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One of the few times I'll disagree with thebruce0. GS cares little about the community and what the community wants unless it affect the bottom line. They are a business, (and have every right to be) and they act as such.

Whaaaaat? We disagreeeee? Say it aint so!

Well, I never said they don't care about money. I just said it isn't fair to Groundspeak to label the entire company as one that does not care about the community. That's a blatant falsehood. There are staff who obviously will care about 'the bottom line' and whether GS is making money, and how to increase that revenue. Because money. But there definitely staff who care about the community, those who want to make the game better, keep it friendly, and find ways to improve it because they listen to the community.

You could say that they're not the ones that make ultimate decisions. And that point, sure. But I would not believe that every single decision made for Groundspeak is based purely on "make us money" at the expense of community happiness. Remember that the negatives always get more air time, especially in the forums, than the positives. The truth of the matter is we don't know the internal workings of Groundspeak necessarily for every decision. We just get annoyed when repeated requests are met with silence, or it feels like other requests get higher priority than ours, whether they're more or less significant.

Attempting to look at the situation objectively - Groundspeak must care about community. That's what keeps them afloat. Groundspeak doesn't always make the best decisions - history has shown that. Groundspeak does need to make money, but they also need a happy community. The unhappy segment of the community are always louder.

 

I guess when I hear "Groundspeak only cares about money" I hear distaste for staff; I hear stereotypical "fight the man" type attitudes; I hear disrespect for what Groundspeak does and tries to do for the community, like guilt by association - none of that matter because they make bad decisions and decision that appear like they don't care.

 

I dunno. I'm just off topic ranting about ranting now. :P

 

ontopic: If they see that there is significant concern about the INTRO app, and they feel it is sufficiently 'hurting' the hobby, I firmly believe they'll do something to address it. Cup half full, people.

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ontopic: If they see that there is significant concern about the INTRO app, and they feel it is sufficiently 'hurting' the hobby, I firmly believe they'll do something to address it. Cup half full, people.

 

Is there a post from Groundspeak anywhere in the 8 pages (so far) of this thread that bolsters your confidence in that belief?

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ontopic: If they see that there is significant concern about the INTRO app, and they feel it is sufficiently 'hurting' the hobby, I firmly believe they'll do something to address it. Cup half full, people.

 

Is there a post from Groundspeak anywhere in the 8 pages (so far) of this thread that bolsters your confidence in that belief?

The first step is recognizing the issue. The next step is coming up with how to make it better.

 

How do we, as a Geocaching community, get Intro app/app only users to learn more about the game?

 

Great constructive addition to the conversation, NeverSummer. Let's talk about this, guys. As community members, we are all responsible for bringing up the new generation of geocachers. How can we offer our help or a re-direction when we see someone trying to figure out how to play this incredibly nuanced game? Was there someone who helped you figure out the proper caching etiquette when you started?

 

We are asking questions like these at HQ, as well. How can we offer guidance and instruction to the new folks who want to come play? How can we support the current community with helping them educate and spread the word? To start with, we are working on more informative blog/FB posts, updating and reorganizing the Help Center, and thinking of fun new ways to inform newbies of the fine tuned, community created, social etiquette mores. In addition, I will let you know that the default log text in the Intro App was just supposed to be an example log and not something that they could use to post a log to any cache. We will be following up on this to make sure that the text is not introducing new cachers to bland/lazy logging techniques.

 

Many of you are already AMAZINGLY helpful to the new cachers who ask questions in the forums. As a fellow community member - I want to say a big THANK YOU for that. Since we are all stewards of the game I ask the same question to the rest of the community: What are some other ways that we can guide and teach the newest players on a local level?

 

Jayme - We (an assortment of NoisyHikers) would really like to see email validation be required to access cache information. We understand this will hurt the "impulse buy" financial benefits for Groundspeak, but we truly feel that access without knowledge is detrimental to the game. Just like NeverSummer, we try to reach out to new cachers if we notice an error in their online logging - especially when it comes to trackables - but without a viable email, it makes the improbable completely impossible. We can't help them if we can't reach them!

 

We've been banging the drum on this for a while here, and the plans are in motion to make this change.

 

If you plan on emphasizing the blog, you can also start by making your blog posts consistent with the values and guidelines. Featuring Cache of the Months that depict caches hidden improperly (stuck in the ground, fence posts, 4x4 posts) gives an image contrary to the guidelines. Reviewers do not allow many things we see highlighted in the blog. Either practice what you preach or open it up a bit for reviewer common sense (permission granted).. for newbies AND the rest of us.

 

It's true that we have had some instances in the past of "the left hand not talking to the right hand" when it comes to caches highlighted on the blog, but I think you will find that this has improved significantly of late.

 

Hey guys-

 

Thanks for all the constructive feedback. This is a great discussion with some thoughtful ideas!

 

Just wanted to give everyone a quick FYI about how the Intro App suggests caches to the newest members of our community.

 

Suggested caches include this filtering:

  • Traditionals only
  • 5 mile radius of user's location
  • No premium member caches (unless the user is premium)
  • Terrain 1-3
  • Difficulty 1-2
  • Small, Regular, Large, and Micro (only D1-1.5)
  • Caches without NM or NA logs
  • Caches found in the last 300 days

Once the caches have been flagged as good for a newbie, they are then sorted by:

  • Last found date
  • Size (large>small>micro)
  • Favorite points (highest to lowest)

We know that we have more work to do. It is our hope that new folks will be able to start with a few of these caches and learn the ropes as they go.

 

Thanks for sharing some memories of a few of the first caches you found, guys. Fun little addition to the conversation and something that we can all relate to.

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And...

 

 

I'm glad Jayme H and Moun10bike stopped by. I'd love to know if this discussion has made it onto any other radars, or has entered any kind of discussion in the conference room at Groundspeak?

Me too!

Inquiring minds want to know? :ph34r::lol:

Wow! What a nice treat to come back from Disneyland to. Sorry for the little absence from the thread guys. Thanks for checking in and being patient while I caught up on the threads. :)

 

You guys are seriously awesome! Way to take an edgy-ish (new word!) thread and make it into something that can really be useful to us. I so appreciate all of your constructive suggestions and discussion. I have put this thread on my "to do" list. As in: comb through it and make a list of all the great ideas mentioned. Once I do that, I will present it to the people who are looking for ways to make our community happy - taking care of our established community, by educating our newest community members definitely qualifies. You guys really took the time to discuss and flesh out some nice concepts. Loved hearing from both the experienced and looking-for-more-caching-experiences crowds. Thanks for chiming in, everyone!

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Out of all that the only post I see that indicates any firm commitment for change is this one:

 

Jayme - We (an assortment of NoisyHikers) would really like to see email validation be required to access cache information. We understand this will hurt the "impulse buy" financial benefits for Groundspeak, but we truly feel that access without knowledge is detrimental to the game. Just like NeverSummer, we try to reach out to new cachers if we notice an error in their online logging - especially when it comes to trackables - but without a viable email, it makes the improbable completely impossible. We can't help them if we can't reach them!

 

We've been banging the drum on this for a while here, and the plans are in motion to make this change.

 

And that was a month ago.

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More .02 from a newb

 

I discovered geocaching using the free intro app. I use my smartphone because I already own one and didn't see the need to spend more $$ up front.

Personally, I have made every possible effort to be responsible, get informed and play nicely. Within a week of my first hike (DNF and logged as such) I had assembled a bag of swag, pens and spare logs to add to the caches I find.

I see people complaining about newbs using the free app but, I also see people talking about other cachers knowingly breaking the rules. So clearly the rude and selfish cachers are not all newbs on smartphones.

I have zero familiarity with gps devices and would never have discovered this great game (yes it's a game for me)if not for the app.

 

The point I am trying to make is, the free app itself is not the problem. I think it's needs to be tightened up a bit to dissuade lazy and destructive people from participating but, there is a place for the app and I think it should stay.

 

+1 on the following:

Many people suggested email validation to use the app at all. This seems like a no brainer.

Somebody suggested a 5 cache limit before having to upgrade.

Somebody sugested .99 or $1.99 instead of free (not a bad idea but, I think it should be free for troop leaders who will provide a controlled environment to young people learning the game)

 

My idea: What if the free version only made "log only" caches available until a certain threshhold is met? Perhaps 5 finds plus email validation and forum registration ?

 

Anyway, that's my .02

Thanks to all the people who hide the caches. I'm having a great time.

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Well...I've had or assisted in close to 75 cache hides. NONE were premium only caches. Most are still active, or archived because of a lack of interest, change in cache conditions (like when a road was built and the cache was about there not being a connecting road). I had a few archived during tow of my 500+ day hiatus from caching and I didn't maintain them, but it was due to weather. On occasion there may have been a noob that caused an issue, but it was far in the minority. Granted, I've also hid better quality caches, only two have been nanos. There are many that date back to 2005.

 

This is anecdotal of course, but I felt it needed to be said that newbies aren't ruining the game for everyone. Maybe, just maybe the cache hiders need to review the quality and placement of their caches. Don't blame others for YOUR failures.

 

In fact, if you are a newbie in the Tampa area...feel free to PM me. I don't mind showing folks the ropes.

Edited by TheWeatherWarrior
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Has anyone mentioned the cache note (here) yet? I doubt most newbie finders bother to read it. It's rather long and likely to be found printed on a dog-eared piece of paper or on a card with font too small to read. Something with more impact would be helpful.

 

If, instead, a newbie opened a cache box and found, attached to the inside of the lid ...

  • a pouch with a big 21LwaoOn6dL._SX38_SY50_CR,0,0,38,50_.jpg on it
  • emblazoned with "new to this? please take a card"
  • containing cards printed with the most basic tenets of geocaching

... then perhaps they'd treat the container with a little more reverence.

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I had a few archived during tow of my 500+ day hiatus from caching and I didn't maintain them, but it was due to weather.

 

Does this mean that you abandoned those caches and this resulted in them being archived?

 

This is anecdotal of course, but I felt it needed to be said that newbies aren't ruining the game for everyone. Maybe, just maybe the cache hiders need to review the quality and placement of their caches. Don't blame others for YOUR failures.

 

Can you elaborate on your ideas for how responsible cache owners might adjust the quality and placement of their caches to deal with some of the issues mentioned earlier in the thread like:

 

  • Cache containers left open to the elements
  • Cache containers poorly re-hidden - or not re-hidden at all
  • Trackables taken by people who have no idea what they are or the proper way to handle them
  • Unnecessary Needs Maintenance or Needs Archived logs
  • Finders moving caches to where they think they should be hidden - or even taking them home

 

Granted it's unsafe for us to assume that these sorts of incidents are attributable only to users of the intro app - or to newbies in general - but I'd never really considered that it might actually be the cache hiders themselves who are to blame for all these problems :ph34r:

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Out of all that the only post I see that indicates any firm commitment for change is this one:

 

Jayme - We (an assortment of NoisyHikers) would really like to see email validation be required to access cache information. We understand this will hurt the "impulse buy" financial benefits for Groundspeak, but we truly feel that access without knowledge is detrimental to the game. Just like NeverSummer, we try to reach out to new cachers if we notice an error in their online logging - especially when it comes to trackables - but without a viable email, it makes the improbable completely impossible. We can't help them if we can't reach them!

 

We've been banging the drum on this for a while here, and the plans are in motion to make this change.

 

And that was a month ago.

One month is not that long in the world of business and internet.

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I like the idea of limiting which caches are visible in the intro app. When a new cache is create one of the choices could be whether you want to make it visible on the intro app, or just the paid one. Maybe limit them to 1/1 caches.

 

I also like having to verify your email before any cache info is visible.

 

For those that spent money and time creating caches just to have them tossed around by clueless users that have not taken the time to learn, it seems like little to ask.

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More .02 from a newb

 

I discovered geocaching using the free intro app. I use my smartphone because I already own one and didn't see the need to spend more $$ up front.

Personally, I have made every possible effort to be responsible, get informed and play nicely. Within a week of my first hike (DNF and logged as such) I had assembled a bag of swag, pens and spare logs to add to the caches I find.

I see people complaining about newbs using the free app but, I also see people talking about other cachers knowingly breaking the rules. So clearly the rude and selfish cachers are not all newbs on smartphones.

I have zero familiarity with gps devices and would never have discovered this great game (yes it's a game for me)if not for the app.

 

The point I am trying to make is, the free app itself is not the problem. I think it's needs to be tightened up a bit to dissuade lazy and destructive people from participating but, there is a place for the app and I think it should stay.

 

+1 on the following:

Many people suggested email validation to use the app at all. This seems like a no brainer.

Somebody suggested a 5 cache limit before having to upgrade.

Somebody sugested .99 or $1.99 instead of free (not a bad idea but, I think it should be free for troop leaders who will provide a controlled environment to young people learning the game)

 

My idea: What if the free version only made "log only" caches available until a certain threshhold is met? Perhaps 5 finds plus email validation and forum registration ?

 

Anyway, that's my .02

Thanks to all the people who hide the caches. I'm having a great time.

 

Welcome to caching. If all users, new and old had your positive attitude, there probably would not be any need for this thread. :rolleyes:

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Whaaaaat? We disagreeeee? Say it aint so!

 

I knoooooooow!!!

 

Out of all that the only post I see that indicates any firm commitment for change is this one:

 

Jayme - We (an assortment of NoisyHikers) would really like to see email validation be required to access cache information. We understand this will hurt the "impulse buy" financial benefits for Groundspeak, but we truly feel that access without knowledge is detrimental to the game. Just like NeverSummer, we try to reach out to new cachers if we notice an error in their online logging - especially when it comes to trackables - but without a viable email, it makes the improbable completely impossible. We can't help them if we can't reach them!

 

We've been banging the drum on this for a while here, and the plans are in motion to make this change.

 

And that was a month ago.

One month is not that long in the world of business and internet.

But not a long time for a message forum with a hot topic 8 pages long. Or are we yet at 9?

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This whole thread, blaming newbies for issues that you have with the game itself isn't going to solve your dissatisfaction. Probably just time to take a break and find a new hobby.

 

Given the title of this thread that's an interesting suggestion.

Not really, I've already mentioned above that for almost as long as there's been geocaching, there have have been threads accusing newbies of killing the hobby. There are always new people playing the game and a certain number of them make mistakes when logging caches or handling travel bugs; and if don't accept the consequence of this maybe it is time to take a break and find a new hobby.

 

That said, there are some who feel that a free iPhone app sets the bar too low for new geocachers. It may be that either in the shear number of newbies that are starting because of the app or in the quality of people attracted through this method, that the problems today are worse that in the past.

 

I personally don't see this and there have been a number of post by Groundspeak lackeys that indicate that problems are not significantly different than in the past. Perceptions are often biased where problems are given more weight than the newbies who contribute to the game or who have a neutral impact.

Edited by tozainamboku
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This whole thread, blaming newbies for issues that you have with the game itself isn't going to solve your dissatisfaction. Probably just time to take a break and find a new hobby.

 

Given the title of this thread that's an interesting suggestion.

Take a break? :blink: Is that suggesting to just walk off and leave more than 100 geocaches for a local reviewer to worry about? I don't think so, and it would take some effort to clean up all the geocaches I have placed. :laughing: And I would not ask some other member to adopt my work that they may not even find of interest other than the location. :anibad:

I see that happen alot but I never understood it. I guess that is why some land managers see geocaches as unattended property/trash. :unsure:

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Out of all that the only post I see that indicates any firm commitment for change is this one:

 

Jayme - We (an assortment of NoisyHikers) would really like to see email validation be required to access cache information. We understand this will hurt the "impulse buy" financial benefits for Groundspeak, but we truly feel that access without knowledge is detrimental to the game. Just like NeverSummer, we try to reach out to new cachers if we notice an error in their online logging - especially when it comes to trackables - but without a viable email, it makes the improbable completely impossible. We can't help them if we can't reach them!

 

We've been banging the drum on this for a while here, and the plans are in motion to make this change.

 

And that was a month ago.

One month is not that long in the world of business and internet.

 

I half agree :)

 

The results one can achieve in a given period of time depend on a whole bunch of stuff - not least of which is the resources at one's disposal and also how one organises, prioritises and utilises those resources. In this particular instance prioritises is the key word and this particular issue seems to be way down the list - especially as we don't know how long the drum was being banged at GS on the issue of email validation* before this thread even started...

 

*I'm focusing on this particular aspect of the overall issue as that's the only one from your previously re-posted quotes with any real indication of any plans to deliver change.

 

You'd be doing very well though to convince me that one month isn't a long time in the context of the world of Internet - given that I can locate and view documents stored on computer systems around the world and communicate with people globally in seconds :blink:

 

Take a look at this Infographic and see if you still think if a month is not long in the world of the Internet :o

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