Cemetery Art

[+lumbricus]

Hi there,

 

it's now about 1.5 years ago that scrambler390 founded a group for Cemetery Art. I tried to contact him but I got no answer. That's why I created a new group because we want to start with this idea. The category should fill a gap. 'Figurative Public Sculptures' don't allow sculptures in combination with a tomb:

 

"Funerary sculpture (part of a headstone, crypt, etc.) should be Waymarked elsewhere."

 

Last weekend I visited some cemeteries to check out how many possible sculptures would be out there. I visited three cemeteries and found about 6 great statues/sculptures.

 

Excluded will be:

 

Angels (-> Epic Beeings)

Statues of Religious Figures

Lions

Reliefs (-> Relief Art Sculptures)

Abstract Art Sculptures

 

It's will be like the 'Figurative Sculptures' category for cemeteries.

 

Some examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-lumbricus

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

Wow Andreas! Those are GORGEOUS works of funerary art!! We are intrigued .... Let's discuss more. Blasterz LOVE cemeteries

[+BruceS]

For this category I think we should exclude the "stock" type sculptures such as the little a lambs, standard anchors, standard angels etc. The category should be for true custom funerary art.

[+stijnhommes]

If you exclude Angels and Religious Figures from your "Cemetery Art" category, I'm struggling to see what would be left -- even more so with the other exclusions added.

[+BruceS]

If you exclude Angels and Religious Figures from your "Cemetery Art" category, I'm struggling to see what would be left -- even more so with the other exclusions added.

The examples that lumbricus posted would all be included. Other examples would be the following:

[razalas]

This sculptures are nice, but I do not like categories involving the interior of the cemeteries so i will not support the creation of this category.

 

I know there are already several categories but i've never created a waymark in them and if i do it will be just one in each category.

 

 

I apologize for my bad english.

[+lumbricus]

Some more examples from http://gottesacker.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

For this category I think we should exclude the "stock" type sculptures such as the little a lambs, standard anchors, standard angels etc. The category should be for true custom funerary art.

 

Agreed -- anything standard in a particular era should be excluded. We think the focus here should be on the unique -- and not the ubiquitous.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+iconions]

The Lady behind the Glass in Belfontaine Cemetery would be perfect for this... I also found a REALLY cool peacock in the cemetery in Lamar, Co., last October. I definitely have seen some AMAZING funery art wisiting some of the great Midwest cemeteries.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

Global? Check.

Prevalent? Check.

Interesting? CHECK!!

 

Our opinion only

[+BruceS]

The Lady behind the Glass in Belfontaine Cemetery would be perfect for this...

There are many great sculptures in Bellefontaine in St. Louis, Crown Hill in Indianapolis, Cave Hill in Louisville, and Spring Grove Cemetery in Cincinnati. What I like is when I find great examples where I don't expect them in small town or country cemeteries. Like the one below I found in Greenville, Mississippi.

[+lumbricus]

Great examples Bruce. But it won't be easy to write a good description. We have to work together.

[+Tuena]

There should be a minimal period of time since the person died otherwise could be seen as disrespectful. I was in a cemetery when I saw several glorious mausoleums but upon inspection noted that some of those interred had recently died & knew that the family was well known in the district. I went & found one some distance away where the last internee had died 40 years ago. The same for centenarians. I allow 15 or more years since death otherwise Waymarking in these circumstances becomes a macabre game.

[+Benchmark Blasterz]

There should be a minimal period of time since the person died otherwise could be seen as disrespectful. I was in a cemetery when I saw several glorious mausoleums but upon inspection noted that some of those interred had recently died & knew that the family was well known in the district. I went & found one some distance away where the last internee had died 40 years ago. The same for centenarians. I allow 15 or more years since death otherwise Waymarking in these circumstances becomes a macabre game.

 

This is an interesting perspective -- thank you for sharing it. We agree that we must have respect for the living and the dead kept paramount in our minds when creating or pursuing waymarks in cemetery categories. I don't believe the responsible waymarkers here would ever support a category that would do emotional harm to people or disrespect them -- that's what politics is for

Edited April 30, 2013 by Benchmark Blasterz

[+thegorilla23]

I see presenting these beautiful headstones as an honor to the dead not as disrespect. That is just my personal opinion! My father passed away just under a year ago and I have his grave marked as a hobby headstone ... again as a sign of respect.

 

I know others don't share that opinion, and that's fine. It would be a honor if someone would visit it that otherwise would have never seen it!

[+Math Teacher]

Count me in!

[+xptwo]

This sounds like a great idea. Let me know if I can help.

[+pstidsen]

I have prior to this topic thought about a category just like this. I think this is a most welcome addition here. However in my notebook I wrote down two questions I couldn't answer and then I did nothing further. The first one is already discused briefly... how do you ensure respect for the living AND for the dead. A minimum timerange from the time of death is a good starting point I haven't thought about myself.

 

The second question is about stock vs. original art. My point of view is that stock decorations have no Waymarking appeal. But how do you see if a sculpture or decoration is an original? I have seen several beautiful graves decorated by stock items, and it could be hard to tell if a sculpture is an original piece of art. Writing other art waymarks, finding the story behind an object, is a natural starting point to me, but with cemetary art this could turn out to be impossible. In Denmark you never see sculptures at graves with artist credited or with other informations. Stories and artists in relation to famous peoples graves could probably easily be found, but the majority of artistic graves will probably reveal nothing further than an oppertunity to take a picture. This lack of sources could lead to lots of waymarks where the original vs. stock answer couldnt be answered. I reasently found a sculpture near a cemetary (not on a grave) and to my suprise it turned out to be stock art from a middle eastern company imported to Denmark.

 

I haven't found a good way to deal with this yet.

[+haggaeus]

I was recently walking through Glasnevin Cemetery and saw many fine pieces of cemetery art there. Mostly ornamental celtic crosses but some figurative sculptures as well. Almost feels like this category would fall into "too prevalent".

 

My other concern is that grave decorations vary from country to country: the headstones like those below are common in any Irish cemetery but for a visitor from Central Europe they seem to be quite unusual.

 

[+BruceS]

I do think we may have to limit category to more of the figurative art. I agree if you include the Celtic crosses and urns you would have an over prevalence problem

[+Jake39]

Glad to see this idea was brought up in the Forum, again.

 

- A couple of years ago I had proposed a similar idea for a Category named "Designer Memorials" or was it called "Unique Graveside Markers/Memorials" which didn't go anywhere.

~ To-day while searching through the Categories I came across the "Handmade Tombstones" ones where these wouldn't be accepted as some aren't even tombstones but just extra decorations.

One question that was posed was: Do these have to be at a grave or can these markers be placed anywhere? (or just cemetery)

 

will look to see if I can still find the old link with photos) (

[+silverquill]

Wow, this is a complex category idea, but one that I think is worth pursuing.

 

In general, I'm not in favor of writing a category with a lot of exclusions, especially if those exclusions are based on the existence of other categories. IF it qualifies for more than one category, then a waymark should be valid for each category. This is not ALWAYS true, but I think it is a general principle. Then one has the choice of which category is best, or if one wants to post it in multiple categories.

 

I do think the exclusion of certain types of mass produced objects is valid, and necessary. I think that trying to determine what is a "stock" production or common object presents a challenge, injecting an element of subjectivity, but I think we have to try.

 

There are many cemetery related categories, and I see nothing disrespectful about them per se, as long as they are created in a respectful way. There are many other sites besides Waymarking.com that document graves, after all.

 

One additional question that arises after my visit to England--what about effigies? I saw many crypts that had a likeness of the deceased on the cover. I'll see if I can post a photo, or maybe someone else has one. I think these could be included, or maybe even warrant their own category.

 

So, count me in!!

[+lumbricus]

Inspired by the new cemetery category I remembered our project back in 2013. I need help in working this out, bringing it to an end. Please join the group. Cemetery Art

[+T0SHEA]

Figurative Public Sculpture "Funerary sculpture (part of a headstone, crypt, etc.) should be Waymarked elsewhere."  

Just where would I find the "elsewhere" category?

[+NW_history_buff]

I didn't know this topic was discussed four years ago. I fully support it and I've come across many 'one-of-a-kind' sculptures in cemeteries that now I wish I had taken photos of. Oh well. I also agree that a five-year wait on posting a waymark of an individual is need out of respect for loved ones. I have this policy in my Graves of Unusual Deaths category. 

[+iconions]

There is some REALLY great art I have run across in my travels in the many cemeteries across the midwest.  I also agree with the five year window.  There really is some great funerary art out there!

[+PISA-caching]

I think here in Vienna I will find plenty of waymarks for this category and some of these are so beautiful, that they deserve to have a waymark for them. One that I have already posted in "Broken Column Headstones" is this beauty:

 

I remember that when I took the photos I was sure that there would be a category for it. I was a little disappointed that only the rather boring column made it valid for at least that category.

Would this one have a chance to be added to this new category, even if it already is in the Broken Columns category? And what about the Occupational/Hobby Grave Stones? Don't have an example, but there will be headstones that are  Cemetery Art and also represent the occupation/hobby of the interred.

[+PISA-caching]

On ‎29‎.‎04‎.‎2013 at 4:23 PM, lumbricus said:

-lumbricus

Oh, wow, I just found an exact replica of the above. It seems that "mine" is on the "Zentralfriedhof" in Vienna. Where is yours?

[+lumbricus]

Interesting, mine is located in Prien am Chiemsee, Bavaria, Germany.

[+PISA-caching]

Cool. We have to find out which one is the original and which one the replica. Or maybe both are replicas. :-)

[+lumbricus]

Some more examples of cemetery art:

 

[+PISA-caching]

The last three are reliefs, no? I often ask myself, where the border between sculpture and relief really is.

[+lumbricus]

12 minutes ago, PISA-caching said:

The last three are reliefs, no? I often ask myself, where the border between sculpture and relief really is.

Yes, I would also call them reliefs. This brings up the question if we should also accept reliefs...

[+PISA-caching]

In the initial posting you said no to reliefs. :-) In a perfect world I would accept them in the Cemetery Art category and disallow reliefs on cemeteries in the Reliefs category.

Same goes with Abstract sculptures. The art that you find on cemeteries is often "special" and I know a few examples of abstract artwork that you probably wouldn't pay much attention, if you see it in a park or something, but a lot of attention, because it is on a cemetery. For example:

Edited July 28, 2017 by PISA-caching

[+iconions]

What about something like this?  Would it fit in this proposed new category?

[+PISA-caching]

Lately I also found an interesting tombstone:

The inscription says "Unknown Artist 2010". It is not a real headstone. Nobody seems to know who placed it between two graves and why, but the cemetery administration decided to not remove it as long as nobody complains about it. For me, this would be a interesting addition to this category, but what do you think?

[+dtrebilc]

On 20/05/2013 at 9:40 PM, silverquill said:

Wow, this is a complex category idea, but one that I think is worth pursuing.

 

In general, I'm not in favor of writing a category with a lot of exclusions, especially if those exclusions are based on the existence of other categories. IF it qualifies for more than one category, then a waymark should be valid for each category. This is not ALWAYS true, but I think it is a general principle. Then one has the choice of which category is best, or if one wants to post it in multiple categories.

 

I do think the exclusion of certain types of mass produced objects is valid, and necessary. I think that trying to determine what is a "stock" production or common object presents a challenge, injecting an element of subjectivity, but I think we have to try.

 

There are many cemetery related categories, and I see nothing disrespectful about them per se, as long as they are created in a respectful way. There are many other sites besides Waymarking.com that document graves, after all.

 

One additional question that arises after my visit to England--what about effigies? I saw many crypts that had a likeness of the deceased on the cover. I'll see if I can post a photo, or maybe someone else has one. I think these could be included, or maybe even warrant their own category.

 

So, count me in!!

I believe that effigies that are in the likeness of the deceased would fit in the Death Mask Gravestones category. Although the name of this category implies that it is only for death masks it also allows gravestones with a carved likeness of the deceased.

The only problem I can think of is knowing whether the effigy is intended as a likeness of the deceased or is just a representation of a human body.

Edited August 8, 2017 by dtrebilc
Missing Word

[+ripraff]

I was just in a cemetery and knew there were Smithsonian listed statues. Since I couldn't find a map to correlate the Smithsonian statues to locations we drove around and took photos of statues. We got half a dozen. Oddly enough only one matched the Smithsonian list, so I have a number of statues ready for this category. What is holding this one up? Does someone just need to create it so it can be voted on? How does that work?

[+ripraff]

I was just in a cemetery and knew there were Smithsonian listed statues. Since I couldn't find a map to correlate the Smithsonian statues to locations we drove around and took photos of statues. We got half a dozen. Oddly enough only one matched the Smithsonian list, so I have a number of statues ready for this category. What is holding this one up? Does someone just need to create it so it can be voted on? How does that work?

 

I saw the link to the category in the other thread. What is the next step? This has been just hanging around for almost a year. Five years if you count when it started.

[+ripraff]

Actually the easiest path would be to remove that one line from figurative sculpture and not exclude cemetery art.  It stated because it could be way marked elsewhere, which is not the case. Actually there might be a problem because they exclude particular people. It may be difficult to tell if the statue represents the person in the grave. There are categories for historical persons but not your average person. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by ripraff

[vulture1957]

On 4/30/2013 at 9:35 AM, Tuena said:

There should be a minimal period of time since the person died otherwise could be seen as disrespectful. I was in a cemetery when I saw several glorious mausoleums but upon inspection noted that some of those interred had recently died & knew that the family was well known in the district. I went & found one some distance away where the last internee had died 40 years ago. The same for centenarians. I allow 15 or more years since death otherwise Waymarking in these circumstances becomes a macabre game.

 

I'm guessing someone that spent thousands of dollars to have a sculpture made for a grave site EXPECTS it to be visited and appreciated.

[+ripraff]

It would be nice to make the category as inclusive as possible instead of worrying about a statue fitting multiple categories.

[+ripraff]

Some of the above statues would fit hourglass, musical (pan flute), angels...It really shouldn't be a problem. Many of the statues on the Smithsonian list are in cemeteries. But many cemetery statues are not on the list.  A statue may be cast from the same mold and therefore a replica. This is different than cheap, mass reproduced. I have submitted statues in cemeteries not associated with a grave that have been accepted. Do we do all statues in cemeteries? There are companies that do produce standard, duplicate statues but they are by no means cheap. They should be ok. It is the lawn ornament, particularly those left at gravesite that are not interesting.

[+Tuena]

On 16/07/2018 at 8:55 AM, vulture1957 said:

 

I'm guessing someone that spent thousands of dollars to have a sculpture made for a grave site EXPECTS it to be visited and appreciated.

Probably.

[+DougK]

On 7/16/2018 at 4:05 AM, ripraff said:

... Many of the statues on the Smithsonian list are in cemeteries. ...

 

Of the 300+ Smithsonian sculptures I've posted, I can only remember a few being in a cemetery.

I believe most Smithsonian sculptures are outside cemeteries in public places.

 

That could be a good thing for the proposed category, as the overlap may not be too large.

[+Max and 99]

I only recall looking for one Smithsonian in a cemetery.

[+ripraff]

5 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I only recall looking for one Smithsonian in a cemetery.

15 out of 107 of mine are in cemeteries. Not a hugh overlap. I don't live in a big city, they would have more outside of cemeteries.

 

[+ripraff]

I don't believe Smithsonian sculptures are excluded anywhere. I think I have a lot of double posting I could do.

[+ripraff]

Is there anything I can do to move this along? It seems to be caught in limbo.

[+NW_history_buff]

As the leader in this potential category, I acknowledge I've been distracted of late (summer vacations, family stuff, homeowner issues). When school is back in session for my kids, I'll have a little more time to focus on details/finetuning issues and put to a vote down the road, hopefully sooner than later.