Archived caches, missing trackables

[Dulce-Joy]

Just an idea but, wouldn't it make sense if a cache is archived that any trackables that are shown to be in that cache be automatically marked as missing? This cache (GC46F0) got me thinking about it.

[+OZ2CPU]

YES good point..

but you are aware of, some caches are archived,

but still exist out there, and can still be found, signed and logged as found,

and they can still contain trackables.

 

what I want more is a way last finder of a cache, can directly mark items as missing,

he just saw they are not there !!

but he must write to CO and to trackable owner to do this, too much trouble, so he dont do anything

if a little bit lucky he may just mention this in his log, and others must active search for this information

to know it is not there. not smart. not easy.

[AZcachemeister]

There is a pending suggestion for a system to deal with these over in the 'website feature discussion' forum.

Supposedly being considered by TBTB....for the last eight months.

 

Perhaps this will be one of the features included in today's update?

We can only hope...

[+jellis]

I thought that too especially if the CO is no longer active. But it could get out of hand. Like cachers marking TBs missing even when the cache is still active just because someone doesn't see it in the cache. A cacher could have picked it up and still be on the road and no access to computer or smartphone.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I was sure I saw this as feature on the site for a while, what happened?

 

If this gets moved to the Trackable forums, someone who is more current with this might be able to speak to it.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Isonzo Karst

[+Lil Devil]

The website used to do exactly that. When a cache was archived, all trackables were marked as missing. The system also auto-generated a log to state this. The problem was that this log was posted as if it was written by the cache owner. Many cache owners complained that their name was attached to something they didn't write. Groundspeak eventually removed the "feature" completely, instead of just changing the name attached to the auto-generated log.

[kanchan]

Archived caches don't necessary mean they are missing. A CO might archive a cache due to an angry neighbor, for example. The trackables might still be there and are to be retrieved by the CO when they remove the cache later.

 

I don't think I can agree with OZ2CPU either. Someone who visited the cache eariler in the day might have picked it up before someone else did. I don't think that someone else should be able to mark it as missing.

[+Mike & Jess]

I have a bit of a concern with the system automatically marking TBs as missing should a cache get achieved.

If the cache goes missing, this would work.

If the cache is achieved for other reasons such as a reviewer achieved because of broken rules/complaints or other reasons, the TB may still be alive and well, just not at the posted coordinates.

I did have a cache archieved because someone complained to the reviewer it was on private property (it wasn't, but that isn't the point). This cache did have a trackable in it when I recovered it. The coin was moved along, but could have been lost if such an automated system existed.

 

I would however like to see easier options as a cache owner to make a trackable as not in my cache.

I do remember there being an option, but for the life of me, I can't remember how or where to do so.

[+StarBrand]

...

I would however like to see easier options as a cache owner to make a trackable as not in my cache.

I do remember there being an option, but for the life of me, I can't remember how or where to do so.

See this help center article: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=152

[+The A-Team]

I would however like to see easier options as a cache owner to make a trackable as not in my cache.

I do remember there being an option, but for the life of me, I can't remember how or where to do so.

Just go to the trackable page for a trackable listed as being in one of your caches, and there's a dropdown on the far right. One of the options is "Mark as missing".

[AZcachemeister]

...could have been lost if such an automated system existed.

 

 

Hardly.

If a trackable turns up (even after years of being missing), it continues it's travels as if nothing happened.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Thanks Lil Devil for remembering that. I thought I recalled the Mark Missing thing with trackables and archived caches.

 

I have a bit of a concern with the system automatically marking TBs as missing should a cache get achieved.

I did have a cache archieved because someone complained to the reviewer it was on private property (it wasn't, but that isn't the point). This cache did have a trackable in it when I recovered it. The coin was moved along, but could have been lost if such an automated system existed.

 

 

Expanding on AZcachemeister's post, had the coin in your archived cache been automatically marked missing, this would have had no effect whatever on it.

 

You recovered the cache and the coin, and I presume, logged a "grab" of the coin, and then dropped it somewhere else. Had it been marked missing, this would have worked in exactly the same way. The coin would have moved from your cache's inventory to an Unknown location (no mileage added). When you used the code to grab it, it would move from Unknown to your hands, and then from your hands to the next cache. Mileage exactly the same as if you'd grabbed it from the cache.

[+WarNinjas]

I don't think because other cachers find it without the TB that they should be able to mark it as missing. We have a cache out that is often found by cachers from other country's on vacation and they pick them up. It is very often that they are not logged for a month until there long vacation is over.

[+OZ2CPU]

>It is very often that they are not logged for a month until there long vacation is over.

 

EXACTLY...

and in all that time, the TB is NOT in the cache,

so the most accurate log is : it is NOT in this cache (dont go look for it here)

wait until it show up later.. this is exactly what a missing log do.

The system can not always be up to date, with what is the fact of real life,

but lets try to make it as accurate as we can.

 

People on long vacations or people not going online often, should not move trackables

just discover them, this way we have less trouble with lost items,

or items not where the system say they are.

Edited August 3, 2012 by OZ2CPU

[+The A-Team]

>It is very often that they are not logged for a month until there long vacation is over.

 

EXACTLY...

and in all that time, the TB is NOT in the cache,

so the most accurate log is : it is NOT in this cache (dont go look for it here)

Correct, it isn't in the cache, but it also isn't missing. No one can ever know if a trackable is truly missing or just hasn't been logged yet. Even if it hasn't moved in years, it still may not be missing, although the longer it doesn't move, the greater the probability that it is truly missing. In reality, a trackable can't really be considered missing until it has had no activity for many months.

 

People on long vacations or people not going online often, should not move trackables

just discover them, this way we have less trouble with lost items,

or items not where the system say they are.

This would very effectively kill the whole idea of trackables. They're supposed to travel, and many have goals to travel overseas. I suspect that the majority of movements over large distances would come from people going on vacation. If you were to cut those out, most trackables would simply travel around their start area.

[+zack_black]

So put a button that says: Trackable is not in the cache. Doesn't do anything except remove the trackable from the cache inventory. If you found the cache but there were no trackables in it (that were supposed to be) then just hit the button instead of the log saying "xxx trackable isn't in cache" (which does nothing as CO seem very reluctant to mark trackables as missing). Would save tons of "phantom trackables" on cache listings.

[AZcachemeister]

...but it also isn't missing...

 

What do you mean?

 

Either we know where it is, or we don't.

 

It's either in a cache, in someones possession, or missing.

 

Missing is not the same as dead.

[+Don_J]

So put a button that says: Trackable is not in the cache. Doesn't do anything except remove the trackable from the cache inventory. If you found the cache but there were no trackables in it (that were supposed to be) then just hit the button instead of the log saying "xxx trackable isn't in cache" (which does nothing as CO seem very reluctant to mark trackables as missing). Would save tons of "phantom trackables" on cache listings.

 

So, when I steal my next geocoin and add it to my personal collection, I can just mark it missing myself. Perfect!

[+Don_J]

...but it also isn't missing...

 

What do you mean?

 

Either we know where it is, or we don't.

 

It's either in a cache, in someones possession, or missing.

 

Missing is not the same as dead.

 

I agree. If only one person knows where the bug is, and he's not checking in for a month, for all purposes it is missing.

[+Don_J]

The website used to do exactly that. When a cache was archived, all trackables were marked as missing. The system also auto-generated a log to state this. The problem was that this log was posted as if it was written by the cache owner. Many cache owners complained that their name was attached to something they didn't write. Groundspeak eventually removed the "feature" completely, instead of just changing the name attached to the auto-generated log.

 

Something about babies and bathwater comes to mind.

[+PapaBearNKids]

I found a cache today that had a trackable in inventory but the trackable wasn't there. I started looking at other caches with inventory and noticed a lot of logs saying the trackable was missing. Why would anyone steal a trackable? They can't be reused, right?

[+OZ2CPU]

>Why would anyone steal a trackable?

 

Steal is a very hard word for: not know the system, not know the items,

forgot to zip up pocket, forgot to read carefully on it,

forgot not to give it to your kids.

 

>They can't be reused, right?

 

NO, the ID code is allready some one elses !

[+cerberus1]

Why would anyone steal a trackable? They can't be reused, right?

You're right, there's no sense in swiping a T.B. when it has a tracking number on it.

Doesn't always mean it had to be stolen though. Might get dropped, then lost.

Heck, my truck seats will swallow a coffee cup, it could be a month before I'd spot a coin or T.B.

[+PapaBearNKids]

All, thanks for your quick reply. It was my first message on this forum. I think people not knowing it was a trackable might explain this. It seems that it occurs a lot. I was thinking about getting my own trackable. I'll make sure to mark it as "do not keep me" or something like that.

[+niraD]

I think people not knowing it was a trackable might explain this. It seems that it occurs a lot.

Yep. When I take new people geocaching, I often have to remind them about trackables when they open a cache and see the "cool toy" or "nice medallion". They forget everything I told them earlier about Travel Bugs and geocoins, and just want to trade something for whatever it was that they found. It isn't malicious, and they aren't intending to steal anything. They're perfectly willing to leave something of equal or greater value in exchange for the trackable.

 

I was thinking about getting my own trackable. I'll make sure to mark it as "do not keep me" or something like that.

This can help. The language on the TB tags helps, but few people think to read it. A laminated tag is usually more noticeable, and can make the point in simple terms (e.g., "DO NOT KEEP ME. Do not trade for me. Please move me to another cache.").

 

Another thing that helps is to attach the TB tag to something that people aren't likely to want. For example, a TB tag attached to a big rusty washer is likely to survive longer than one attached to a Disney Princess doll or a Matchbox car.

[+shortcutsrus]

What should be expected of CO when he is told via logs and a 'Maintenance Needed' attribute that TBs listed in his cache are not there? Has been logged thus for several months, but his reply is 'There is nothing wrong with the cache, re-setting', and removes the wrench icon.

[+MartyBartfast]

What should be expected of CO when he is told via logs and a 'Maintenance Needed' attribute that TBs listed in his cache are not there? Has been logged thus for several months, but his reply is 'There is nothing wrong with the cache, re-setting', and removes the wrench icon.

Personally I don't see this as a cache maintenance issue so I can see their point (although I would, and have, marked TBs missing in such circumstances). I think NM logs should be used for issues with the actual cache (full/missing logs, damaged containers, etc) and not the TB contents.

 

The TB owner is the one ultimately responsible for/interested in the fate of the TB so notify them and let them deal with it.

[+BlueDeuce]

The cache owner is not responsible to verify or maintain the accuracy of the TB listing.

[Pup Patrol]

Help Center → Geocaching → Caches in General

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=57

 

3.8. Caches That Need Maintenance

 

FINDERS:

 

If you find a geocache that is in need of some help (e.g. container is cracked, logbook is wet), please post a "Needs Maintenance" log on the cache page so the cache owner and the community is notified. This log adds an attribute to the page (looks like a red wrench) to alert other geocachers of the needed repairs. Logging Needs Maintenance does not increase find count. Needs Maintenance logs are not forwarded to reviewers.

 

OWNERS:

 

Once you have made repairs, post an "Owner Maintenance" log on the cache page. This log removes the Needs Maintenance Icon. Don't let your cache be filtered out in Pocket Queries by forgetting to remove the Needs Maintenance Icon.

 

Additional reminders for Cache Owners:

 

Replace the container if the current one is not holding up in its environment.

 

Make sure that that your container is watertight and that the contents are free from debris.

 

If any of the cache contents are wet, dry them off or replace them.

 

Check that there is enough space left in your logbook for many more entries.

 

If winter is approaching, make sure you include a pencil in your cache since the ink in pens can freeze.

 

If your cache will not be accessible due to seasonal weather conditions, note this on the cache page.

 

Verify the Trackables that are listed in your cache. Those that are listed in the online inventory but are no longer physically in the cache can be marked as "missing" by using the appropriate link on the Trackable's page.

 

Help Center → Trackables → Fancier Features

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=152

 

2.5. Mark Missing - Trackable on page but not there physically.

 

Sometimes, a Trackable has been physically removed from a cache, but the finder does not log it online. The Travel Bug or Geocoin icon on remains the cache page, and geocachers can be frustrated when they arrive at the cache to find it missing.

 

Don't despair if a Trackable goes missing. In many cases it has been moved to another cache but the last person didn't know how to log it. The next geocacher who finds it will log the find.

 

If you are the owner of the Trackable, or the owner of the cache where the Trackable is listed, you can mark the item as missing. This will remove it from the cache inventory, and place the Trackable in an "unknown location." This will not effect the mileage of the Trackable. Later, if the Trackable is found, it can be grabbed and placed into the correct location. Mileage will be calculated from its previous location.

 

To do this, go to the Trackable's page, and choose from among the "Trackable Item Options." If you are the Trackable owner, it will say "Recalculate distance." Click on this menu and select "Mark bug missing". If you are the cache owner, the menu will already be on the "Mark bug missing" option. Click "Go" and when the page refreshes, at the top it will ask "Are you sure you want to mark this Travel Bug missing?" Click "Yes" to complete the action.

 

When you mark a Trackable missing, a log to the Trackable's page will be auto-generated under your name, explaining the Mark Missing log.

 

If you are not the Trackable owner or cache owner and notice that a Trackable is not in a cache, you can use the Trackable's reference number to log a note to the Trackable listing telling the owner that the Trackable is not there. Or you can email the cache owner or the Trackable owner and point them to this Knowledge Book page. As a courtesy, it is nice to email the Trackable owner first. If neither player is responsive, notify contact@geocaching.com and we can usually remove it from the cache.

 

 

B.

[+BlueDeuce]

Don't you think I among anyone would suggest cache owner maintain the bug listings? Not going to happen.

[+Don_J]

What should be expected of CO when he is told via logs and a 'Maintenance Needed' attribute that TBs listed in his cache are not there? Has been logged thus for several months, but his reply is 'There is nothing wrong with the cache, re-setting', and removes the wrench icon.

 

Because there IS nothing wrong with the cache. Please don't misuse the NM feature. You know, the whole "Cry Wolf" thing.

[+Harry Dolphin]

What should be expected of CO when he is told via logs and a 'Maintenance Needed' attribute that TBs listed in his cache are not there? Has been logged thus for several months, but his reply is 'There is nothing wrong with the cache, re-setting', and removes the wrench icon.

 

The cache owner is not responsible for the trackables. He may, if he wishes, mark them as missing, but is not required to. So, putting a Needs Maintenance on the cache for missing trackables is a misuse of the system. Even an abuse of the system. The CO is correct,and within his rights, when he resets "There is nothing wrong with the cache." Because there is nothing wrong with the cache.

[Pup Patrol]

I quoted the whole thing so that shortcutsrus could see that there are other options, but the focus of discussion has been changed to just the cache owner.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=152

 

If you are not the Trackable owner or cache owner and notice that a Trackable is not in a cache, you can use the Trackable's reference number to log a note to the Trackable listing telling the owner that the Trackable is not there.

 

Or you can email the cache owner or the Trackable owner and point them to this Knowledge Book page. As a courtesy, it is nice to email the Trackable owner first.

 

If neither player is responsive, notify contact@geocaching.com and we can usually remove it from the cache.

 

 

B.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Pup Patrol

[+fuzziebear3]

Try writing a note on the bug page instead (you can get to it from the cache page, and you don't need the secret number to write a note).

 

This will let the bug owner mark the trackable as missing, especially if the cache owner is reluctant to do it.

[AZcachemeister]

What should be expected of CO when he is told via logs and a 'Maintenance Needed' attribute that TBs listed in his cache are not there? Has been logged thus for several months, but his reply is 'There is nothing wrong with the cache, re-setting', and removes the wrench icon.

 

The cache owner is not responsible for the trackables. He may, if he wishes, mark them as missing, but is not required to. So, putting a Needs Maintenance on the cache for missing trackables is a misuse of the system. Even an abuse of the system. The CO is correct,and within his rights, when he resets "There is nothing wrong with the cache." Because there is nothing wrong with the cache.

 

Personally, I would hope the cache page would be as accurate as possible.

 

IMNSHO, the NM attribute could apply to the listing page, as well as to the physical container in the field.

Have you ever posted a NM because the co-ordinates were way off?

I haven't, but I would consider it.

 

So the listed co-ordinates are off 0.2, there is nothing wrong with the cache.

[+The Rat]

Sometimes you know it's really missing and sometimes you don't. Don't despair if yours drops off the radar for a while. I've had some totally disappear (the site where its host cache was got bulldozed for construction. The cache and TB are no doubt in a landfill) and other times go missing for months but then show up. I just had one go missing for 5 months and then the holder found it among her stuff and started it on its way again. She was an experienced geocacher (9000+ finds) but just forgot she had won it in a raffle at an event.