Share Your Quality Challenges

[GOF and Bacall]

I created this one last night:

 

http://coord.info/CX60F

 

Takes you to a very unique pyramid rock formation (120' tall) in Zoar Valley my favorite local hiking area!

 

Yeah, I saw that. You're just playing to my personal demons there. Is there a way to log it from the bottom?

[+hippihiiri]

I also tried to create a new challenge: http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXDF6

I understood it so that if someone accepts the challenge, it cannot be edited after that... am I right? That's a bit of a shame. E.g. I have a link in the description but if the linked challenge gets archived for some reason, the link will be dead and of no use .

Edited August 20, 2011 by hippihiiri

[+The Flying Ks]

I wanted to make this a virtual cache, but since those are no longer I made it a challenge:

 

http://coord.info/CX511

 

All of these challenges are very good and inspiring. I hope that actually geocaching-flavored challenges happen more often!

Edited August 21, 2011 by Hilltop Homeschooler

[+popokiiti]

The Crow's Nest

http://coord.info/CX36E

 

(I didn't submit it, I just think it's a good one)

 

Looks like a good one, but I see someone has flagged user "Geochallenege" for not completing it - the picture posted has nothing to do with the challenge. Geochallenege has no cache finds...methinks that account needs locking!!

[+TheLoneGrangers]

i did my part and flagged him as well lol

[knowschad]

My first challenge that I feel is a good one: http://coord.info/CX10A

 

One question on challenges that I've not seen asked or answered anywhere: Since they say that challenges aren't really owned by their creator, does that mean it is ok to complete your own challenges? For example, I've see the monument I made my challenge for, but I've not done it since I created the challenge. I'd now like to go back and do it myself the way I created it just as kind of a record of what I've done. Would that be like finding your own cache (which I don't think you should do)?

 

That would surely be disallowed as a geocache (non-Challenge) because of the agenda, "Appreciate this dramatic tribute...". At the very least, a reviewer would surely have required you to rephrase that a bit.

 

Curious... why do I have to "point at my GPS" when I take the photo? Isn't it enough to simply be holding it in the picture?

[GOF and Bacall]

My first challenge that I feel is a good one: http://coord.info/CX10A

 

One question on challenges that I've not seen asked or answered anywhere: Since they say that challenges aren't really owned by their creator, does that mean it is ok to complete your own challenges? For example, I've see the monument I made my challenge for, but I've not done it since I created the challenge. I'd now like to go back and do it myself the way I created it just as kind of a record of what I've done. Would that be like finding your own cache (which I don't think you should do)?

 

That would surely be disallowed as a geocache (non-Challenge) because of the agenda, "Appreciate this dramatic tribute...". At the very least, a reviewer would surely have required you to rephrase that a bit.

 

Curious... why do I have to "point at my GPS" when I take the photo? Isn't it enough to simply be holding it in the picture?

 

Pointing at the GPS means it is a new picture. Nobody was pointing at the GPS in the past.

[+northernpenguin]

My first challenge:

 

CX10C - Complete a Multi-Day Hike on the WUBT

 

Which is based on a geocaching activity that I recently completed - a 6 day hike in the woods.

The Western Uplands Backpacking Trail is located within an Ontario Provincial Park, where physical caches have been banned since 2003 (with one or two exceptions).

[GOF and Bacall]

I also tried to create a new challenge: http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXDF6

I understood it so that if someone accepts the challenge, it cannot be edited after that... am I right? That's a bit of a shame. E.g. I have a link in the description but if the linked challenge gets archived for some reason, the link will be dead and of no use .

 

You could email the lily pad. I'll bet they can edit the listing if it becomes a problem. I suspect that it would be a rare case though.

[+Frank Broughton]

I created this one last night:

 

http://coord.info/CX60F

 

Takes you to a very unique pyramid rock formation (120' tall) in Zoar Valley my favorite local hiking area!

 

Yeah, I saw that. You're just playing to my personal demons there. Is there a way to log it from the bottom?

 

Yes there is, from the bottom climb to the top and take the picture... haha personal demons - afraid of heights? It real is not that bad, anytime you want a guide let me and Frankie know, we will take you up!

[+Frank Broughton]

The Crow's Nest

http://coord.info/CX36E

 

(I didn't submit it, I just think it's a good one)

 

Looks like a good one, but I see someone has flagged user "Geochallenege" for not completing it - the picture posted has nothing to do with the challenge. Geochallenege has no cache finds...methinks that account needs locking!!

 

They need to look up the IP of this turkey and ban its real account. Some are way too much going out of their way to make this project fail. Yes, the project was released too early and many of the basic tools for it are, at this point, sadly lacking but that no excuse. The pile on poo forums boys ain't helping either!

[GOF and Bacall]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

[knowschad]

My first challenge that I feel is a good one: http://coord.info/CX10A

 

One question on challenges that I've not seen asked or answered anywhere: Since they say that challenges aren't really owned by their creator, does that mean it is ok to complete your own challenges? For example, I've see the monument I made my challenge for, but I've not done it since I created the challenge. I'd now like to go back and do it myself the way I created it just as kind of a record of what I've done. Would that be like finding your own cache (which I don't think you should do)?

 

That would surely be disallowed as a geocache (non-Challenge) because of the agenda, "Appreciate this dramatic tribute...". At the very least, a reviewer would surely have required you to rephrase that a bit.

 

Curious... why do I have to "point at my GPS" when I take the photo? Isn't it enough to simply be holding it in the picture?

 

Pointing at the GPS means it is a new picture. Nobody was pointing at the GPS in the past.

 

to prove that you've been here since this challenge was issued.

BRB... time to refill my coffee.

[GOF and Bacall]

I created this one last night:

 

http://coord.info/CX60F

 

Takes you to a very unique pyramid rock formation (120' tall) in Zoar Valley my favorite local hiking area!

 

Yeah, I saw that. You're just playing to my personal demons there. Is there a way to log it from the bottom?

 

Yes there is, from the bottom climb to the top and take the picture... haha personal demons - afraid of heights? It real is not that bad, anytime you want a guide let me and Frankie know, we will take you up!

 

I didn't even wear tall shoes in the '70s.

[+TheLoneGrangers]

My first challenge:

 

CX10C - Complete a Multi-Day Hike on the WUBT

 

Which is based on a geocaching activity that I recently completed - a 6 day hike in the woods.

The Western Uplands Backpacking Trail is located within an Ontario Provincial Park, where physical caches have been banned since 2003 (with one or two exceptions).

 

This IMHO is what the challenges are all about.

[+TheLoneGrangers]

GOF and Bacall...I really like 3 of 4 of your challenges, I honestly don't care for the kite one, but it still gets you outside, to a great area, so I didn't thumb it down....but gave thumbs up to the other three...and I got a great challenge idea...thanks.

Edited August 22, 2011 by TheLoneGrangers

[+TheLoneGrangers]

http://coord.info/CX11AB

 

GOF and Bacall gave me a great idea for a challenge. I love this place! I made the requirements in such a way that people with physical disablities can get credit by getting on the hanger deck and getting a photograph. (which is wheel chair accessible by elevator) The carrier is really cool place to explore, I think it makes a great challenge.

[GOF and Bacall]

GOF and Bacall...I really like 3 of 4 of your challenges, I honestly don't care for the kite one, but it still gets you outside, to a great area, so I didn't thumb it down....but gave thumbs up to the other three...and I got a great challenge idea...thanks.

 

http://coord.info/CX11AB

 

GOF and Bacall gave me a great idea for a challenge. I love this place! I made the requirements in such a way that people with physical disablities can get credit by getting on the hanger deck and getting a photograph. (which is wheel chair accessible by elevator) The carrier is really cool place to explore, I think it makes a great challenge.

 

Well thank you. I'm flattered to have inspired you. Your challenge looks great. Hope I can get there sometime.

 

The kites may not be your cup of tea but there are many who enjoy those kind of things. Like traditional caching challenges should have something for everyone.

[+BuckeyeClan]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

Those are great! Actually, I love the fly a kite one. The aspect of challenges that has caught my interest is some of the fun or silly things that my kids might enjoy. They just don't get into caching very much, but I can see them having fun with some of these challenges.

[GOF and Bacall]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

Those are great! Actually, I love the fly a kite one. The aspect of challenges that has caught my interest is some of the fun or silly things that my kids might enjoy. They just don't get into caching very much, but I can see them having fun with some of these challenges.

 

Thanks. I want my challenges to be in some way memorable. Not just some chore completed for yet another smiley.

[+Manville Possum]

I created this one last night:

 

http://coord.info/CX60F

 

Takes you to a very unique pyramid rock formation (120' tall) in Zoar Valley my favorite local hiking area!

 

Yeah, I saw that. You're just playing to my personal demons there. Is there a way to log it from the bottom?

I have one very similar in the works. We shot the coordinates and photos yesterday. You don't want to take the short cut to the bottom.

[+TheLoneGrangers]

GOF, you are right, just not my cup of tea...but it doesn't mean its not a good challenge, just one I wouldn't thumb up, but I didn't thumb it down. Now if you make me have to kiss a frog, then I'll thumb it down lol

[knowschad]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

Those are great! Actually, I love the fly a kite one. The aspect of challenges that has caught my interest is some of the fun or silly things that my kids might enjoy. They just don't get into caching very much, but I can see them having fun with some of these challenges.

 

Thanks. I want my challenges to be in some way memorable. Not just some chore completed for yet another smiley.

 

Small point here, but I like that you put "This Challenge was created by GOF and Bacall on 8-19-2011" in the Challenge text.

[GOF and Bacall]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

Those are great! Actually, I love the fly a kite one. The aspect of challenges that has caught my interest is some of the fun or silly things that my kids might enjoy. They just don't get into caching very much, but I can see them having fun with some of these challenges.

 

Thanks. I want my challenges to be in some way memorable. Not just some chore completed for yet another smiley.

 

Small point here, but I like that you put "This Challenge was created by GOF and Bacall on 8-19-2011" in the Challenge text.

 

It surprised me that Groundspeak didn't give any more credit to the challenge creator than the first log. We all know that will slip off the page into obscurity.

[+fuzziebear3]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

All of these are nice.

 

The Niagara Falls one is a little open-ended - I could actually log it right now with a photo I have from last year (but I won't because that is against the way I play). I would like it to bring people back for a new visit instead of just a web remembrance. Also there are probably too many in that area already.

 

The kite one is actually very cool. I won't do 'silly' stuff, but that one is not silly in my opinion. Maybe because you are joining a much enjoyed activity there, not being a stupid fool acting out where you shouldn't.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I just made this challenge:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/challenges/view.aspx?cx=CXB2C

 

Feedback?

 

Looks like a good one. The only comment I have is that since you have no way of enforcing a non-completion (because someone didn't have the coordinates showing on their GPS in a photo...i.e. for many, their GPS is also their camera) I think that getting too demanding on the criteria for completing a challenge might be a lost cause. It's hard to say how well yours will be received but I just get the feeling that challenges which encourage creativity, rather than demand compliance will get more "thumbs up". For example, Brian's challenge which challenges us to hike to the top of a peak in New Jersey and wave an american flag can be completed with a small pocket flag, but those that carry a huge flag to the top will have completed the challenge, and then some.

 

It kind of reminds me of many years ago when I used to go backpacking to a place in Sequoia National Park with a few friends. It became an annual trip, and after the first one when someone discovered a patch of wild blackberries and proceeded to cook up a blackberry cobler using the bisquick he brought and a "stove" he constructed out of green sticks and some aluminum foil, it became a tradition to try to bring in some sort of unusual food for the first night's dinner. One year I brought sushi, someone brought chocolate covered strawberries (the food had to survive the 2.5 mile hike in), but I think my favorite was when my Mexican friend brought in a half dozen authentic corn husk wrapped tamales that were still hot when he unwrapped them. We weren't just bringing in food items for others to share. We were trying to one-up each other to see who can be the most imaginative. Create a challenge that encourages creativity and the imagination in others and I think it'll be a success. Funny, the same applies to traditional physical caches as well.

[GOF and Bacall]

These are all the challenges I have published to date. Have a look and tell me what you think? What can I do better?

 

CX8E

 

CXB91

 

CXBAA

 

CX603

 

All of these are nice.

 

The Niagara Falls one is a little open-ended - I could actually log it right now with a photo I have from last year (but I won't because that is against the way I play). I would like it to bring people back for a new visit instead of just a web remembrance. Also there are probably too many in that area already.

 

The kite one is actually very cool. I won't do 'silly' stuff, but that one is not silly in my opinion. Maybe because you are joining a much enjoyed activity there, not being a stupid fool acting out where you shouldn't.

 

That Niagara Falls one was my first attempt. It was also the first challenge at The Falls.

 

I do agree. A join in the fun challenge is good. Act like an a**, not so much.

[+CanadianRockies]

One I feel is worthy of being a challenge.

 

http://coord.info/CX884

I don't have a problem with Challenges taking people to multiple locations, but I know some people do.

 

My concern with this particular Challenge is that it seems to be a way of circumventing the guidelines for "challenge caches." Specifically:

 

Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published.

 

It also seems to run afoul of the sparse "requirements" concerning Challenges:

 

The location of a challenge should be directly related to the action. ... "Find this/a geocache" are not.

[GOF and Bacall]

One I feel is worthy of being a challenge.

 

http://coord.info/CX884

I don't have a problem with Challenges taking people to multiple locations, but I know some people do.

 

My concern with this particular Challenge is that it seems to be a way of circumventing the guidelines for "challenge caches." Specifically:

 

Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published.

 

It also seems to run afoul of the sparse "requirements" concerning Challenges:

 

The location of a challenge should be directly related to the action. ... "Find this/a geocache" are not.

 

I think there is a place for multi-location challenges. I would like to see them added as another challenge type.

 

I'd also like to see challenges separated from caches. You should not get credit for completing a challenge because you found cache GCXXX.

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Ok those are good points

[+CanadianRockies]

I think there is a place for multi-location challenges. I would like to see them added as another challenge type.

It looks like Groundspeak also doesn't think they belong as part of any of the current types of Challenges:

 

There should only be one location where you can complete the challenge.

[+BuckeyeClan]

 

Looks like a good one. The only comment I have is that since you have no way of enforcing a non-completion (because someone didn't have the coordinates showing on their GPS in a photo...i.e. for many, their GPS is also their camera) I think that getting too demanding on the criteria for completing a challenge might be a lost cause. It's hard to say how well yours will be received but I just get the feeling that challenges which encourage creativity, rather than demand compliance will get more "thumbs up". For example, Brian's challenge which challenges us to hike to the top of a peak in New Jersey and wave an american flag can be completed with a small pocket flag, but those that carry a huge flag to the top will have completed the challenge, and then some.

 

It kind of reminds me of many years ago when I used to go backpacking to a place in Sequoia National Park with a few friends. It became an annual trip, and after the first one when someone discovered a patch of wild blackberries and proceeded to cook up a blackberry cobler using the bisquick he brought and a "stove" he constructed out of green sticks and some aluminum foil, it became a tradition to try to bring in some sort of unusual food for the first night's dinner. One year I brought sushi, someone brought chocolate covered strawberries (the food had to survive the 2.5 mile hike in), but I think my favorite was when my Mexican friend brought in a half dozen authentic corn husk wrapped tamales that were still hot when he unwrapped them. We weren't just bringing in food items for others to share. We were trying to one-up each other to see who can be the most imaginative. Create a challenge that encourages creativity and the imagination in others and I think it'll be a success. Funny, the same applies to traditional physical caches as well.

 

I agree with this! When I read challenge pages that are informative, fun, or creative, I get a positive feeling. When I read listings that say "in order to complete this challenge you MUST..." I cringe a little. As long as the challenges are ownerless, and belong to the community, challenge creators are going to need to shift their mindset a little. It's not about *making* people do things, it's about inviting them to do things.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Looks like a good one. The only comment I have is that since you have no way of enforcing a non-completion (because someone didn't have the coordinates showing on their GPS in a photo...i.e. for many, their GPS is also their camera) I think that getting too demanding on the criteria for completing a challenge might be a lost cause. It's hard to say how well yours will be received but I just get the feeling that challenges which encourage creativity, rather than demand compliance will get more "thumbs up". For example, Brian's challenge which challenges us to hike to the top of a peak in New Jersey and wave an american flag can be completed with a small pocket flag, but those that carry a huge flag to the top will have completed the challenge, and then some.

 

It kind of reminds me of many years ago when I used to go backpacking to a place in Sequoia National Park with a few friends. It became an annual trip, and after the first one when someone discovered a patch of wild blackberries and proceeded to cook up a blackberry cobler using the bisquick he brought and a "stove" he constructed out of green sticks and some aluminum foil, it became a tradition to try to bring in some sort of unusual food for the first night's dinner. One year I brought sushi, someone brought chocolate covered strawberries (the food had to survive the 2.5 mile hike in), but I think my favorite was when my Mexican friend brought in a half dozen authentic corn husk wrapped tamales that were still hot when he unwrapped them. We weren't just bringing in food items for others to share. We were trying to one-up each other to see who can be the most imaginative. Create a challenge that encourages creativity and the imagination in others and I think it'll be a success. Funny, the same applies to traditional physical caches as well.

 

I agree with this! When I read challenge pages that are informative, fun, or creative, I get a positive feeling. When I read listings that say "in order to complete this challenge you MUST..." I cringe a little. As long as the challenges are ownerless, and belong to the community, challenge creators are going to need to shift their mindset a little. It's not about *making* people do things, it's about inviting them to do things.

 

Or more accurately, it's about challenging them to do things.

 

This afternoon I drove by the location of the challenge that I created called "Choke the Chicken" (CX59B), So far only one person has accepted the challenge and they haven't completed it. Since I can't edit the listing I've posted a comment from the Chicken, who is still very much alive, or as alive as a large steel chicken can be.

[+lamoracke]

never mind.

Edited August 23, 2011 by lamoracke

[+Frank Broughton]

GOF and Bacall...I really like 3 of 4 of your challenges, I honestly don't care for the kite one, but it still gets you outside, to a great area, so I didn't thumb it down....but gave thumbs up to the other three...and I got a great challenge idea...thanks.

 

I love the kite one. Looking forward to doing it up! Have a brand new Buffalo Box kite just for the challenge. See GOF is even stimulating the economy.

[GOF and Bacall]

GOF and Bacall...I really like 3 of 4 of your challenges, I honestly don't care for the kite one, but it still gets you outside, to a great area, so I didn't thumb it down....but gave thumbs up to the other three...and I got a great challenge idea...thanks.

 

I love the kite one. Looking forward to doing it up! Have a brand new Buffalo Box kite just for the challenge. See GOF is even stimulating the economy.

 

More than the government is doing.

 

Another new one tonight.

 

CX11A2

[+TheLoneGrangers]

Any more quality out there?

[GOF and Bacall]

This one is designed to take people to an interesting historic location.

 

CX13C7

[+dfx]

Here's our attempt to revive "webcam caches":

 

http://coord.info/CX139A

[GOF and Bacall]

Here's our attempt to revive "webcam caches":

 

http://coord.info/CX139A

 

Looks good. I was thinking of making my next challenge a webcam.

[+briansnat]

Not mine but it popped up near me and it sounds good. http://coord.info/CX1018

[+northernpenguin]

Here's our attempt to revive "webcam caches":

 

http://coord.info/CX139A

 

I like it!

[cezanne]

Here's our attempt to revive "webcam caches":

 

http://coord.info/CX139A

 

So what's special about that? I have seen many submissions of that type. Maybe I am biased because I always regarded webcam caches as boring, but in any case the idea to turn web cams into challenges is straightforward.

 

Cezanne

[cezanne]

This one is designed to take people to an interesting historic location.

 

CX13C7

 

The location seems to be interesting, but I'd prefer by far a different verification method avoiding personal photos or even better photos at all. Yes, I know, you are lacking the means for doing so and many do enjoy taking photos anyway.

 

Cezanne

[GOF and Bacall]

This one is designed to take people to an interesting historic location.

 

CX13C7

 

The location seems to be interesting, but I'd prefer by far a different verification method avoiding personal photos or even better photos at all. Yes, I know, you are lacking the means for doing so and many do enjoy taking photos anyway.

 

Cezanne

 

Um, it is a photo challenge. The whole point is to take a picture. Not every cache is for everyone. Same goes for challenges.

[cezanne]

 

The location seems to be interesting, but I'd prefer by far a different verification method avoiding personal photos or even better photos at all. Yes, I know, you are lacking the means for doing so and many do enjoy taking photos anyway.

 

 

Um, it is a photo challenge. The whole point is to take a picture. Not every cache is for everyone. Same goes for challenges.

 

Yes, I am aware of that. Do not worry - I never would vote down your challenge or a comparable one just because I do not like taking photos. I also did not meant to suggest that your challenge is a bad one. I just commented on my personal preference.

 

Unfortunately, for those who do not want to post photos of themselves, challenges have hardly anything to offer right now which has been completely different with the old virtuals.

 

Cezanne

Edited August 24, 2011 by cezanne

[GOF and Bacall]

 

The location seems to be interesting, but I'd prefer by far a different verification method avoiding personal photos or even better photos at all. Yes, I know, you are lacking the means for doing so and many do enjoy taking photos anyway.

 

 

Um, it is a photo challenge. The whole point is to take a picture. Not every cache is for everyone. Same goes for challenges.

 

Yes, I am aware of that. Do not worry - I never would vote down your challenge or a comparable one just because I do not like taking photos. I also did not meant to suggest that your challenge is a bad one. I just commented on my personal preference.

 

Unfortunately, for those who do not want to post photos of themselves, challenges have hardly anything to offer right now which has been completely different with the old virtuals.

 

Cezanne

 

Don't worry. I didn't take it personally.

 

I remember most virtuals as being take a photo types. Either of you or your GPS. Some were answer a question types. I suspect that answer type challenges will come in future installments. For the picture types as long as it isn't a specific action picture, like playing the kazoo, just post your hand holding your gps device.

[+Hawkins2.5]

I have looked through all the challenges posted in this thread and it certainly seems like these are all good examples of challenges set so far. However, my favourite ones by far are those where the photo or action requested relate to the specific area. E.g. Build a sandcastle at the beach, fly a kite at a popular kite-flying location (great ideas as I haven't done either of these in ages and it would be fun.) Doing a particular walk also appeals to me as it seems to have a purpose and sounds enjoyable. For the photo ones, there was one that said to take a photo holding the statue's hand, another playing a kazoo. I find these more interesting as they relate more directly to the area than just take a photo by X landmark.

 

I did want to create a challenge for the Vigeland park in Oslo to take a photo of someone posing like one of the statues as we had great fun doing that last time we were there and will be going again soon but I was beaten to it! Vigeland Park

 

That reminds me, I assume for these challenges that it doesn't matter if you do not live in the area as they are supposedly 'ownerless.'

Edited August 24, 2011 by Hawkins2

[+Frank Broughton]

This one is designed to take people to an interesting historic location.

 

CX13C7

 

Did that one today while at work. I work right across the street from this place - but you knew that eh GOF?

Edited August 25, 2011 by Frank Broughton

[+Frank Broughton]

The location seems to be interesting, but I'd prefer by far a different verification method avoiding personal photos or even better photos at all. Yes, I know, you are lacking the means for doing so and many do enjoy taking photos anyway.

 

 

Um, it is a photo challenge. The whole point is to take a picture. Not every cache is for everyone. Same goes for challenges.

 

Yes, I am aware of that. Do not worry - I never would vote down your challenge or a comparable one just because I do not like taking photos. I also did not meant to suggest that your challenge is a bad one. I just commented on my personal preference.

 

Unfortunately, for those who do not want to post photos of themselves, challenges have hardly anything to offer right now which has been completely different with the old virtuals.

 

Cezanne

 

May I suggest - put a mask on!