Regarding blank logs

1.1k · July 2, 2011

Has anyone considered adding a WARNING to their owned caches that blank logs will be deleted? I'm not asking for opinions about blank logs. I don't care why it's blank, iPhone issue or otherwise, there's suppose to be something in that box!

Edited July 2, 2011 by Indotguy

2.6k · July 2, 2011

No, I would not add a warning nor delete a blank log.

(Though I do think the decision to allow blank logs from certain devices was a bad idea).

8.6k · July 2, 2011

Wrong! Sorry, but GS has given their "blessing" to blank logs. You may not delete for that reason alone (and have the deletion stand).

Still... It is worth a rant, but until the Frog starts moving a little off the "left", nuttin' is gonna happen.

6.1k · July 2, 2011

Has anyone considered adding a WARNING to their owned caches that blank logs will be deleted? I'm not asking for opinions about blank logs. I don't care why it's blank, iPhone issue or otherwise, there's suppose to be something in that box!

The cache would then be considered an ALR, and could be archived. I don't think the archival note itself would be blank, though..

But if you require something, all you would get is SL or TFTC logs anyhow.

19k · July 2, 2011

The others are correct. No matter how much we dislike them, Groundspeak has taken the stance that a blank log is a log, and is not to be deleted. If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak, the blank log will be reinstated. Sorry.

7.5k · July 2, 2011

The others are correct. No matter how much we dislike them, Groundspeak has taken the stance that a blank log is a log, and is not to be deleted. If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak, the blank log will be reinstated. Sorry.

I wonder how GS could make it less annoying?

Maybe blank logs could go in another list, a List of Finders. A separate list of trailnames and dates of everyone who found the cache. Leave the Logged Visits section for comments. However, it doesn't solve the problem of the SLTNLN acronym-only logs still showing up in the Logged Visits section.

1.1k · July 2, 2011

The others are correct. No matter how much we dislike them, Groundspeak has taken the stance that a blank log is a log, and is not to be deleted. If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak, the blank log will be reinstated. Sorry.

I wonder how GS could make it less annoying?

Maybe blank logs could go in another list, a List of Finders. A separate list of trailnames and dates of everyone who found the cache. Leave the Logged Visits section for comments. However, it doesn't solve the problem of the SLTNLN acronym-only logs still showing up in the Logged Visits section.

That's a good idea. As a cache owner, I get a little disappointed when I see the occasional blank log. I like a comment. For me, that was the whole idea. Did you like my cache? Did it suck? Was it in an appealing area? Thankfully, for my caches at least, the blank logs contribute to a small percentage.

Edited July 2, 2011 by luvvinbird

4.2k · July 2, 2011

Has anyone considered adding a WARNING to their owned caches that blank logs will be deleted? I'm not asking for opinions about blank logs. I don't care why it's blank, iPhone issue or otherwise, there's suppose to be something in that box!

The cache would then be considered an ALR, and could be archived. I don't think the archival note itself would be blank, though..

But if you require something, all you would get is SL or TFTC logs anyhow.

or this :rolleyes:

7.9k · July 2, 2011

If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak...

There ya go. If they don't care enough to actually include SOME text, will they care enough to even notice you have deleted their log?

Will they care enough to press the issue with Groundspeak?

I will admit that I did delete a couple when this phenomenon first appeared, and nobody complained or contacted me about it.

Since then I have decided to just let them go.

I suppose you could press the issue, but if it happened enough, and enough people complained you might end up like CavScout.

July 2, 2011

I tend to write notes on my cache pages.

Write note June 26 by FunnyNose (10411 found)

WOW the view was so magnificent it left the last finder speechless.

Found it June 26 by XXXXXX (120 found)

July 2, 2011

I tend to write notes on my cache pages.

Write note June 26 by FunnyNose (10411 found)

WOW the view was so magnificent it left the last finder speechless.

Found it June 26 by XXXXXX (120 found)

good one

July 2, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

July 2, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

Use field notes to record your finds, DNF's, etc. while in the field, and wait until you get home to the computer to type and upload your logs.

8k · July 2, 2011

I'm not sure that Groundspeak has necessarily blessed blank logs. What they have done is the following:

1. They have decided not to require text when posting a log from the geocaching smartphone apps. Requests were made in the feedback site to plug this hole and rejected. Since requiring something could be met with TFTC or even just a period, there isn't much difference between a blank log and a log where you must enter at least one character.

2. They have decided that cache owners should not enforce additional logging requirements on caches. Often these required logs to be in a certain format or contain certain words. As such, deleting a blank log could be seen as an additional logging requirement.

However what has not been tested is the theory that a blank log is off-topic. The Found Log is meant to share one's geocaching experience. It could be argued that a blank log is not sharing anything and therefore is off-topic. Though it could also be argued that a blank log means the finder has nothing worthwhile to share.

One of my complaints of the ALR change was that it was due to people who considered the find count some score and that ALRs denied them the score. It was only after I realize that it was the cache owners who had ALRs who were promoting the score idea that I changed my view and supported the no ALR change. Of course, many cachers still read the Logging of Physical caches guidelines and interpret it to mean that the purpose of the online log is to score a point and that cache owners can't remove your point if you have found the cache (and signed the log).

While my guess is that you can delete a blank log if you give the finder the opportunity to relog with an on-topic log, the ideal would be to not get hung up because someone didn't say anything about your cache. Instead, if it bothers you that much drop them a note explaining why sharing something - even just a TFTC - is an important part of geocaching and certainly is more important than the "point" you score for posting a online found log.

7.3k · July 2, 2011

Here's a Feedback thread on the subject Disallow Blank Logs

Note status: Declined.

Jeremy, "We now support blank logs instead of forcing the user to type things like "." and "TFTC" to post a log. We decided to do this since "I found it" is enough of an action for those who would prefer not to post a verbose log."

7.9k · July 2, 2011

Here's a Feedback thread on the subject Disallow Blank Logs

Note status: Declined.

Jeremy, "We now support blank logs instead of forcing the user to type things like "." and "TFTC" to post a log. We decided to do this since "I found it" is enough of an action for those who would prefer not to post a verbose log."

Which is fine if that option is available to any/everyone...which it isn't.

You can only do this using the iphone app.

Rather than fix the app, Groundspeak chose to whitewash over their mistake.

1.3k · July 2, 2011

The others are correct. No matter how much we dislike them, Groundspeak has taken the stance that a blank log is a log, and is not to be deleted. If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak, the blank log will be reinstated. Sorry.

But is a blank e-log really a log? Can I sign physical logs with invisibile ink?

1.1k · July 2, 2011

I don't intend on deleting logs based on this phenomena but I was curious to see how others felt. In my opinion if one is too apathetic or lazy to include even an acronym then why even bother.

19k · July 2, 2011

The others are correct. No matter how much we dislike them, Groundspeak has taken the stance that a blank log is a log, and is not to be deleted. If you do, and the cacher complains to Groundspeak, the blank log will be reinstated. Sorry.

But is a blank e-log really a log? Can I sign physical logs with invisibile ink?

It isn't in my opinion, but apparently it is sufficient to Groundspeak.

1.1k · July 2, 2011

I don't like blank logs but would never delete one. I would send an email stating YWFTH, Your'e Welcome For The Hide. :laughing:

2k · July 2, 2011

I mean really, does a blank log really annoy you more than a TFTC? They both do not say a darn thing. "." logs. TFTC. Whatever, its still the same, someone who does not take the time to record their experience for others to enjoy...I just momentarily roll my eyes and move on with life.

3.6k · July 2, 2011

Nothing you can do about it. Groundspeak said its allowed.

July 2, 2011

Don't be too hasty. I know geocachers who log from the field only to come back later to amend their log with more text. Unfortunately, at this time, the CO or watchers don't receive an email when a log is amended or a photo is added. I have never had a blank log, but I have found amended logs or photos when I check my cache page that I wouldn't have otherwise known about.

July 3, 2011

I figure my verbose monstrosities more than make up for any blank logs I might receive. I am fueled in mysterious ways. :laughing:

July 3, 2011

Don't be too hasty. I know geocachers who log from the field only to come back later to amend their log with more text. Unfortunately, at this time, the CO or watchers don't receive an email when a log is amended or a photo is added. I have never had a blank log, but I have found amended logs or photos when I check my cache page that I wouldn't have otherwise known about.

For anybody who does this that might just happen to read this thread, I encourage you to figure out how to use field notes. (From the main page, click "Your Profile", then "Field Notes".) It's just as easy as editing your logs, and it will keep the CO's happy!

19k · July 3, 2011

Don't be too hasty. I know geocachers who log from the field only to come back later to amend their log with more text. Unfortunately, at this time, the CO or watchers don't receive an email when a log is amended or a photo is added. I have never had a blank log, but I have found amended logs or photos when I check my cache page that I wouldn't have otherwise known about.

In which case, the cache owner will not likely ever see it unless they happen to go to their cache page and browse the logs. The only email notification they will get will be blank. The workaround would be for the cacher to log the blank, then delete it when they get home, then relog a brand new Found It with text.

4.2k · July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

4.2k · July 3, 2011

Don't be too hasty. I know geocachers who log from the field only to come back later to amend their log with more text.

and what exactly is the point of that?....doesn't make much sense to me to do double the work for a log

and, no they don't come back to amend it :rolleyes:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=8af8fdb5-5411-4b76-803e-7adf9ac8f6c2

i am really tempted to delete it

7.9k · July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

I think he meant 'field notes'.

4.2k · July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

I think he meant 'field notes'.

i doubt it, "field notes" and "posting found it logs" are quite different...i have a feeling he/she is referring to their smartphone as "GPS" :laughing:

i have an Oregon 550 and field notes are not a PITA by any means

Edited July 3, 2011 by t4e

July 3, 2011

One solution is to archive all your caches in protest. That will teach them.

July 3, 2011

One solution is to archive all your caches in protest. That will teach them.

+1

And cancel your premium membership. Don't forget about that.

1.1k · July 3, 2011

One solution is to archive all your caches in protest. That will teach them.

Yes of course. That is an option. (I'm surprised it took so long for someone to come up with that.) <_<

7.9k · July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

I think he meant 'field notes'.

i doubt it, "field notes" and "posting found it logs" are quite different...i have a feeling he/she is referring to their smartphone as "GPS"

i have an Oregon 550 and field notes are not a PITA by any means

Hmmm, hard to tell, but I think you may be right on the 'smartphone as GPS' issue. (probably an iphone, too)

I use my ANDROID phone(s) A LOT for weekday urban caching, and the official app has a post log/field note option. I can either send my text, or save it on the phone (to be uploaded later). If I send it, it can be saved as my field note, or immediately posted to the cache page.

You MUST enter SOME text when using the ANDROID app.

1.5k · July 3, 2011

I don't mind if someone leaves a blank log.

I'm just trying to get 'favorite' votes.

If your geocache is good enough for someone to give it a favorite vote, then you are getting good at hiding them. (no bush hides) :rolleyes:

6.7k · July 3, 2011

I wonder how GS could make it less annoying?

By fixing their app! I used the Groundspeak app on my Android ATRIX 4G phone to log a couple of caches yesterday just to fill in states that I didn't have.

The app on the phone lets you write a find log and submits it to the cache listing, everything looks like it's working correctly, you get a confirmation message that the log was uploaded. Later in the day a friend asked me why I wasn't writing anything in the find log!

So fix the app to work like it's supposed to and that will fix a lot of the blank log issues.

c:geo, BTW, does the same thing. On the phone it says that the log was sent but it doesn't show up online. :mad:

Edited July 3, 2011 by TheAlabamaRambler

July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

I think he meant 'field notes'.

i doubt it, "field notes" and "posting found it logs" are quite different...i have a feeling he/she is referring to their smartphone as "GPS"

i have an Oregon 550 and field notes are not a PITA by any means

You are right, I was referring to both. I use the iphone for messing about. I find it pretty good for creating a post, uploading photos, etc. It is actually easier than using the webpage, imo.

However, if I have my phone out in bad weather or even on a bright day, I am going to record a blank long and come back later and update it. You can create field notes on the iphone, but for me it is just as easy to upload the log and fix it at home (you then dont have to pull out the phone later to sync)

My GPS has a 'found it' log. It does create a field note. Sorry for the confusion around that. I tried ONCE to comment in the field.. that was the torture I mentioned.. terrible!

Personally, I scale my found log with how much I enjoyed (or didnt enjoy) the find.

July 3, 2011

Umm posting a found note from my GPS creates a blank long. Using the GPS interface to enter a comment is torture!

there is no such thing as a GPS that would allow you to post your finds

I think he meant 'field notes'.

i doubt it, "field notes" and "posting found it logs" are quite different...i have a feeling he/she is referring to their smartphone as "GPS"

i have an Oregon 550 and field notes are not a PITA by any means

You are right, I was referring to both. I use the iphone for messing about. I find it pretty good for creating a post, uploading photos, etc. It is actually easier than using the webpage, imo.

However, if I have my phone out in bad weather or even on a bright day, I am going to record a blank long and come back later and update it. You can create field notes on the iphone, but for me it is just as easy to upload the log and fix it at home (you then dont have to pull out the phone later to sync)

My GPS has a 'found it' log. It does create a field note. Sorry for the confusion around that. I tried ONCE to comment in the field.. that was the torture I mentioned.. terrible!

Personally, I scale my found log with how much I enjoyed (or didnt enjoy) the find.

I may be wrong about this, but when you use field notes on the phone, doesn't it upload your log to the field note page right then? If it does, you should then be able to go to the field notes page on the website when you get home, write up your logs, and post them to the cache. You wouldn't need to actually pull out the phone to synch it. I don't actually use my phone to geocache, so I may be misunderstanding how field notes on the phone works. But that's the impression I got from what I've read about field notes on the website.

10.2k · July 3, 2011

I don't like blank logs but would never delete one. I would send an email stating YWFTH, Your'e Welcome For The Hide.

Nice in theory, but I'm going to guess that a high percentage of blank log logger's have absolutely no freaking clue whatsoever they're uploading a blank log to this website, and think they're just marking the cache as found on their phone. Seriously.

Seeing as they've probably never viewed this website on a computer, are they even going to see that email? We can only hope they have the email address they used to set up their account set up on their phone.

Yes, I'd never delete a blank log. And we can't.

10.2k · July 3, 2011

One solution is to archive all your caches in protest. That will teach them.

+1

And cancel your premium membership. Don't forget about that.

Well, you know, if it gets to the point where half of all Geocache logs are blank or TFTC, I might just do that. There are other places to play, and I've already been doing that. Unless Mr. Esoteric hides a cache before then, maybe I'll change my mind. :lol:

6.1k · July 3, 2011

I just submitted a blank needs maintenence log for GC1FMYJ. Was that proper etiquette? :rolleyes:

July 9, 2011

Has anyone considered adding a WARNING to their owned caches that blank logs will be deleted? I'm not asking for opinions about blank logs. I don't care why it's blank, iPhone issue or otherwise, there's suppose to be something in that box!

Ditto !

6.7k · July 9, 2011

Has anyone considered adding a WARNING to their owned caches that blank logs will be deleted? I'm not asking for opinions about blank logs. I don't care why it's blank, iPhone issue or otherwise, there's suppose to be something in that box!

Ditto !

There is no requirement or Guideline as to what must be written in a log, therefore any (legitimate) log is acceptable. I suspect that if you delete logs you don't like Groundspeak would correct you, not them.

Edited July 9, 2011 by TheAlabamaRambler

7.9k · July 9, 2011

I may be wrong about this, but when you use field notes on the phone, doesn't it upload your log to the field note page right then? If it does, you should then be able to go to the field notes page on the website when you get home, write up your logs, and post them to the cache. You wouldn't need to actually pull out the phone to synch it. I don't actually use my phone to geocache, so I may be misunderstanding how field notes on the phone works. But that's the impression I got from what I've read about field notes on the website.

I can't say about the iphone, but you can do it either way on the ANDROID. Immediate upload (obviously) requires a cell signal, and if you are out of range you still have the option to save your note on the phone for later upload.

@TAR I wonder how you managed that! For me, I usually get a message that the log WAS NOT uploaded, when in fact it was. This is one of the main reasons I almost never post a log directly on the cache page, but rather as a field note for later embellishment and posting when I get home. If there are three notes for the same cache, I can easily delete them and I don't look stupid to the CO or anyone watching. Well, maybe I do anyway...but not for posting the same log three times! :lol:

7.3k · July 9, 2011

I just submitted a blank needs maintenence log for GC1FMYJ. Was that proper etiquette?

I assume you're kidding around, as there's no NM on that cache, blank or otherwise.

5k · July 9, 2011

I just submitted a blank needs maintenence log for GC1FMYJ. Was that proper etiquette?

I assume you're kidding around, as there's no NM on that cache, blank or otherwise.

? There are two on July 3.

8k · July 9, 2011

There is no requirement or Guideline as to what must be written in a log, therefore any (legitimate) log is acceptable. I suspect that if you delete logs you don't like Groundspeak would correct you, not them.

Actually the guidelines do say that logs should not be bogus, counterfeit, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate. Or at least that cache owners should delete such logs. However Groundspeak seems* to have indicated that blank logs are not considered off-topic or otherwise inappropriate. If the finder signed the physical log it would be hard to claim them to be bogus or counterfeit as well. In this case, Groundspeak would probably not support a cache owner adding a warning and deleting these logs.

*IMO, Groundspeak has simply stated that they are not going to make any changes to the smartphone apps to enforce non-blank logs. If they required something, a finder could always write TFTC or just put a period in the log, so they see a blank log being just as valid as these options. Whether or not a blank log might be off-topic or inappropriate has not been decided, though I suspect that Groundspeak would prefer that cache owners not delete these logs.

7.3k · July 9, 2011

I just submitted a blank needs maintenence log for GC1FMYJ. Was that proper etiquette?

I assume you're kidding around, as there's no NM on that cache, blank or otherwise.

? There are two on July 3.

My apologies, I didn't realize that there were a bajillion logs on that date, and didn't open the "read all logs" linky.

Sure were a lot of "found it" logs for a container that was reported as being "missing". :lol:

July 9, 2011

It's all a matter of preference. How we play this game is up to us, the individual. It's not up to others to tell one person or a large group of people how they should be playing. As long as it's within Groundspeak's guidelines & rules, we just have to deal with the fact that we don't all play the same. To delete someone's log because it doesn't meet your own personal standards is saying everyone should play as you do.

Many people consider "logging a find" as writing out text in said log. But couldn't "logging a find" simply be the act of marking it Found on the website? I think so. Some people find caches and walk away, never signing the physical logbook or online. Some sign the physical but don't bother logging it online. Others just "log" it online to keep track of their numbers, where they've been or whatever, but don't wish to describe their experience. It all goes back to individual game play preferences. And I consider the initial act of logging it as Found online to actually be LOGGING the cache, whether there's anything written out or not.

6.1k · July 9, 2011

I just submitted a blank needs maintenence log for GC1FMYJ. Was that proper etiquette?

I assume you're kidding around, as there's no NM on that cache, blank or otherwise.

? There are two on July 3.

My apologies, I didn't realize that there were a bajillion logs on that date, and didn't open the "read all logs" linky.

Sure were a lot of "found it" logs for a container that was reported as being "missing".

Thats because there actually was a container there. The wet mass of tree pulp which I set out to biodegrade, was what that person logged a find on. :rolleyes:

Regarding blank logs

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