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Archival of E.T. Highway Series


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Thank you for seeing it that way as well.

 

The closest we ever got to the other cachers were within a 1/2 a city block. We never broke the speed limits on the highway at anytime including when were accelerating.

 

And the part Rebasport has left out of her story is, her now constant geocaching partner "Airspeed" was one of the two other people in the car with me. And he was smiling and laughing right along with us in the car at the time described. So if three of us were enjoying the trail together why is it I'm the only one wrong here now?

 

And there is no statute against hard acceleration and hard braking. So I have nothing to explain to any officer. I never broke the speed limit. We were in a 10,000 lb vehicle. It couldn't reach the speed limit in 250 feet. And decelerating hard in 250 feet without anyone behind me is not against the law. You better brush up on your laws that govern acceleration and deceleration.

 

And how someone twists this into being a "bad geocacher" I'll never understand. Driving this way has nothing to do with being a bad or good geocacher. It's just a little tough on gas mileage and brakes.

 

And my two partners in the car were enjoying every moment that we were doing it. So now it was all wrong. Get real.

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.... And there is no statute against hard acceleration and hard braking. So I have nothing to explain to any officer. I never broke the speed limit. We were in a 10,000 lb vehicle. It couldn't reach the speed limit in 250 feet. And decelerating hard in 250 feet without anyone behind me is not against the law. You better brush up on your laws that govern acceleration and deceleration.....

You claim your actions were not illegal. I don't know, but I claim they were irresponsible.

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Thank you for seeing it that way as well.

 

The closest we ever got to the other cachers were within a 1/2 a city block. We never broke the speed limits on the highway at anytime including when were accelerating.

 

And the part Rebasport has left out of her story is, her now constant geocaching partner "Airspeed" was one of the two other people in the car with me. And he was smiling and laughing right along with us in the car at the time described. So if three of us were enjoying the trail together why is it I'm the only one wrong here now?

 

And there is no statute against hard acceleration and hard braking. So I have nothing to explain to any officer. I never broke the speed limit. We were in a 10,000 lb vehicle. It couldn't reach the speed limit in 250 feet. And decelerating hard in 250 feet without anyone behind me is not against the law. You better brush up on your laws that govern acceleration and deceleration.

 

And how someone twists this into being a "bad geocacher" I'll never understand. Driving this way has nothing to do with being a bad or good geocacher. It's just a little tough on gas mileage and brakes.

 

And my two partners in the car were enjoying every moment that we were doing it. So now it was all wrong. Get real.

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Not sure why I was dragged into this, but I was certainly not "smiling and laughing" during the ride. The two partners in the car did not enjoy it, I was there and it was not pleasant, I was getting car sick from looking down and peeling off stickers. We asked him several times to stop driving like that but he didn't stop until we were side by side with them so they could tell us their caching names.

 

So it was not a "half city block," we were not "smiling and laughing," and the fact that I go caching with Rebasport has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on the trail! We didn't start caching together until after I did the ET Trail.

 

So it is time for N7VIV to "get real" and stand accountable for his actions instead of attempting to re-write history!

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I did the series in December with three cars. Saw very little traffic. Always pulled off the road outside the white stripe. Didn't liter or damage anything and walked the alien head. Been following series this for some time. The series is OUTSTANDING. It has brought people and teams in from all over the world. No cacher has complained (Groundspeak take note - caching is fun, this was fun. Caching is not dangerous (maybe for terrain 5.0) and this series was not dangerous. Some people did stupid things but why punish the entire caching population for a few. Add some regulations or criteria and a method to enforce. And respond to whoever in Nevada that is applying pressure. One of the major Nevada industries is tourism. This series has supported that industry and that should be stressed and reason enough to allow the series. A snow plow incident on a remote road, WOW. If bad enough, give the offender a citation, ticket or something.Place highway signs along the road. They have them for deer crossings. Not much cost. Warn the drivers that there are people parking along the road. To get your attention: In the extreme, prostitution is "accepted" in Vegas but illegal, why?, promotes tourism to some small degree, helps the economy. This series is the other extreme. No one has been hurt, it brings in money and outsiders to the state. Has helped the economy; ask the people that live in Rachael. It is history now. Probably negative incentive to those already working on a longer, larger series. I wish Groundspeak would share their rationale for the archives. They have a excellent history of totally supporting all aspects of geocaching. They only seem to not allow things that make sense. What happened this time.

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Majorjarhead,

 

While I agree with you that the ET Power Trail shouldnt have been archived...it's not Groundspeaks fault.

 

The Nevada Department of Transportaiin withdrew their permission for the trail. Groundspeak had no choice but to archive.

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Not sure why I was dragged into this, but I was certainly not "smiling and laughing" during the ride. The two partners in the car did not enjoy it, I was there and it was not pleasant, I was getting car sick from looking down and peeling off stickers. We asked him several times to stop driving like that but he didn't stop until we were side by side with them so they could tell us their caching names.

 

So it was not a "half city block," we were not "smiling and laughing," and the fact that I go caching with Rebasport has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on the trail! We didn't start caching together until after I did the ET Trail.

 

So it is time for N7VIV to "get real" and stand accountable for his actions instead of attempting to re-write history!

Now that was illuminating. Thanks for sharing.

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Thank you for seeing it that way as well.
The closest we ever got to the other cachers were within a 1/2 a city block. We never broke the speed limits on the highway at anytime including when were accelerating.

 

And the part Rebasport has left out of her story is, her now constant geocaching partner "Airspeed" was one of the two other people in the car with me. And he was smiling and laughing right along with us in the car at the time described. So if three of us were enjoying the trail together why is it I'm the only one wrong here now?

 

And there is no statute against hard acceleration and hard braking. So I have nothing to explain to any officer. I never broke the speed limit. We were in a 10,000 lb vehicle. It couldn't reach the speed limit in 250 feet. And decelerating hard in 250 feet without anyone behind me is not against the law. You better brush up on your laws that govern acceleration and deceleration.

 

And how someone twists this into being a "bad geocacher" I'll never understand. Driving this way has nothing to do with being a bad or good geocacher. It's just a little tough on gas mileage and brakes.

 

And my two partners in the car were enjoying every moment that we were doing it. So now it was all wrong. Get real.

Wow, considering what Airspeed has to say on the subject, I think you need to take your own advice on getting real. And yes, there are laws on the books that cover erratic driving, which sudden starting and stopping would be considered.
Not sure why I was dragged into this, but I was certainly not "smiling and laughing" during the ride. The two partners in the car did not enjoy it, I was there and it was not pleasant, I was getting car sick from looking down and peeling off stickers. We asked him several times to stop driving like that but he didn't stop until we were side by side with them so they could tell us their caching names.

 

So it was not a "half city block," we were not "smiling and laughing," and the fact that I go caching with Rebasport has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on the trail! We didn't start caching together until after I did the ET Trail.

 

So it is time for N7VIV to "get real" and stand accountable for his actions instead of attempting to re-write history!

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Not sure why I was dragged into this, but I was certainly not "smiling and laughing" during the ride. The two partners in the car did not enjoy it, I was there and it was not pleasant, I was getting car sick from looking down and peeling off stickers. We asked him several times to stop driving like that but he didn't stop until we were side by side with them so they could tell us their caching names.

 

So it was not a "half city block," we were not "smiling and laughing," and the fact that I go caching with Rebasport has absolutely nothing to do with what happened on the trail! We didn't start caching together until after I did the ET Trail.

 

So it is time for N7VIV to "get real" and stand accountable for his actions instead of attempting to re-write history!

Now that was illuminating. Thanks for sharing.

You sensing a bit of a disconnect here, too? :lol:

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More and more stuff comes out that was speculated and shouted down. Glad this thing is gone, hope it leads to more archivals!

Funny how one's personal opinion of power trail caching colors what you read in the forums.

 

What I'm seeing is that lots of people had fun doing this trail. A few may have been a little exuberant in their driving habits trying to do this for speed. Whether or not these are the people who caused NDOT to ask for the trail to be archived hasn't been proven. My understanding is that the issues has to do with a section of the trail that went through a winding mountain pass where entering and exiting the highway was probably not safe no matter what speed people were traveling at. I suppose it is possible, since NDOT asked for entire trail to be archived, that they were aware of some other problems - but this is only speculation.

 

Those who don't like power trails and seem to not understand why some people enjoy this type of geocaching, want to imagine the worse and then call for Groundspeak to be "proactive" and archive more caches.

 

I've seen where caches have been archived in the past, sometimes by Groundspeak, sometimes by the cache owner, because a few finders acted in an irresponsible manner. Somebody can always claim that this behavior could have been anticipated and either the cache owner shouldn't have placed the cache where they did or that the reviewer should not have approved it. The problem is you can claim that any cache could potentially have problems. If you want to be proactive you would have to stop placing caches altogether.

 

Now there may be certain things about power trails that make them particularly prone to having these problems, and if that is the case then we can have a discussion of what guideline changes, if any, might help. Right now I see a bunch of people who personally don't like power trails and want to see them banned, instead of people who are genuinely concerned about what happens when a small number of finders misbehave when searching for a cache - something that happens on non-power trail caches as well as on power trails.

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Funny how one's personal opinion of power trail caching colors what you read in the forums.

 

What I'm seeing is that lots of people had fun doing this trail.

A few may have been a little exuberant in their driving habits trying to do this for speed.

You do an excellent job proving your own point. <_<:lol:

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More and more stuff comes out that was speculated and shouted down. Glad this thing is gone, hope it leads to more archivals!

Funny how one's personal opinion of power trail caching colors what you read in the forums.

 

What I'm seeing is that lots of people had fun doing this trail. A few may have been a little exuberant in their driving habits trying to do this for speed. Whether or not these are the people who caused NDOT to ask for the trail to be archived hasn't been proven. My understanding is that the issues has to do with a section of the trail that went through a winding mountain pass where entering and exiting the highway was probably not safe no matter what speed people were traveling at. I suppose it is possible, since NDOT asked for entire trail to be archived, that they were aware of some other problems - but this is only speculation.

 

Those who don't like power trails and seem to not understand why some people enjoy this type of geocaching, want to imagine the worse and then call for Groundspeak to be "proactive" and archive more caches.

 

I've seen where caches have been archived in the past, sometimes by Groundspeak, sometimes by the cache owner, because a few finders acted in an irresponsible manner. Somebody can always claim that this behavior could have been anticipated and either the cache owner shouldn't have placed the cache where they did or that the reviewer should not have approved it. The problem is you can claim that any cache could potentially have problems. If you want to be proactive you would have to stop placing caches altogether.

 

Now there may be certain things about power trails that make them particularly prone to having these problems, and if that is the case then we can have a discussion of what guideline changes, if any, might help. Right now I see a bunch of people who personally don't like power trails and want to see them banned, instead of people who are genuinely concerned about what happens when a small number of finders misbehave when searching for a cache - something that happens on non-power trail caches as well as on power trails.

 

Power trails amplify bad geocaching habits. More and more just keep coming out. That small number you and others have been banging the drum about, just keeps getting bigger.

Edited by M 5
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I've seen where caches have been archived in the past, sometimes by Groundspeak, sometimes by the cache owner, because a few finders acted in an irresponsible manner. Somebody can always claim that this behavior could have been anticipated and either the cache owner shouldn't have placed the cache where they did or that the reviewer should not have approved it.

Just because anybody can predict it will snow in their hometown tomorrow doesn't mean all weather forecasts are worthless. Some predictions are more accurate than others.

 

In the case of power trails, it's easy to anticipate that some people will use them to set personal one-day caching records. Unfortunately, it's also easy to predict that a subset of these people will act irresponsibly to shave time off their searches.

 

The problem is you can claim that any cache could potentially have problems. If you want to be proactive you would have to stop placing caches altogether.

The world isn't a black-and-white place; it's full of grays and even colors. Just because any cache potentially could have problems doesn't mean one should treat all caches identically. One potentially could suffer head injuries in many different sports. That doesn't mean one must wear a helmet to play tennis.

 

I hope Groundspeak will be proactive and take into account that some people behave differently when seeking power trail caches versus standard caches. Along a winding mountain road with narrow shoulders, it's probably okay to place a standard cache 100 yards down the road from a safe pullout. Placing a series of power trail caches along that same stretch of road probably is a bad idea.

 

Now there may be certain things about power trails that make them particularly prone to having these problems, and if that is the case then we can have a discussion of what guideline changes, if any, might help. Right now I see a bunch of people who personally don't like power trails and want to see them banned, instead of people who are genuinely concerned about what happens when a small number of finders misbehave when searching for a cache - something that happens on non-power trail caches as well as on power trails.

As I've noted previously, I want to try one of the longer power trails sometime this year; I think I might enjoy the experience. As I've also noted previously, I'm concerned that some people's predictable misbehavior might put themselves and others at risk. One result of that might be the banning of all power trails. If Groundspeak becomes more proactive when it reviews potential power trails, then a reasonable balance might be possible. I hope so.

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As TAR is fond of posting-the best and worst thing about geocaching is that anyone can do it. Think about how many bone headed moves you saw on your local roads last week. Did you wonder if it was a one time thing, or if that person is simply a poor driver? It's quite likely that some among us are simply lousy or careless drivers, we all know we're easily distracted (Shiny).

 

So it shouldn't come as a great surprise that if you concentrate a large number of caches in one place, it will draw a disproportionate number of cachers to that place. Add to that mix the odds that one or two of them are already careless drivers, and you end up where we are today. Some people came to this area and had an experience they will remember for a long time. Some people sat here in the forums gnashing and carping about those other people. And most people, and even most cachers, aren't even aware that it happened, and are just sailing along enjoying life and caching without it bothering them.

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So it shouldn't come as a great surprise that if you concentrate a large number of caches in one place, it will draw a disproportionate number of cachers to that place. Add to that mix the odds that one or two of them are already careless drivers, and you end up where we are today.

 

I really need to attend a 12-step group so I can stop posting to this thread...but, you hit on a pet peeve of mine. smile.gif

 

The ET Trail had 1000 caches spread across 100 miles of barren Nevada highway. I've got 5000 caches within 20 miles of my house. I guarantee that on any given day there were more geocacher stupid tricks pulled within a few miles of my house than there were on the entire length of the ET highway.

 

My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

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My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

But you don't understand. In one of the best non-ice cream analogies I have seen in this forum, Canadian Rockies has pointed out that if you are geocaching around town you're playing tennis, but if you are on a power trail it's football. Sure someone might get hurt playing tennis but you wouldn't tell them to wear a helmet. :unsure:

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But you don't understand. In one of the best non-ice cream analogies I have seen in this forum, Canadian Rockies has pointed out that if you are geocaching around town you're playing tennis, but if you are on a power trail it's football. Sure someone might get hurt playing tennis but you wouldn't tell them to wear a helmet. :unsure:

 

Since when do you wear a helmet when you're playing football?

 

Oh, you must be thinking of "american" football... :rolleyes::laughing:

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My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

 

Sure they do. But they don't do them every tenth of a mile, in a straight line.

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So it shouldn't come as a great surprise that if you concentrate a large number of caches in one place, it will draw a disproportionate number of cachers to that place. Add to that mix the odds that one or two of them are already careless drivers, and you end up where we are today.

 

I really need to attend a 12-step group so I can stop posting to this thread...but, you hit on a pet peeve of mine. smile.gif

 

The ET Trail had 1000 caches spread across 100 miles of barren Nevada highway. I've got 5000 caches within 20 miles of my house. I guarantee that on any given day there were more geocacher stupid tricks pulled within a few miles of my house than there were on the entire length of the ET highway.

 

My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

 

How many of that 5000 near your house are arranged in a linear fashion on the same road and .10 of a mile apart? How often do the people caching in that 5000 attempt to find 1000 at a time?

 

People complain on the forums all the time about numbers-orienting caching that results in a "scorched-earth" style hunt and containers tossed on the ground. I'm pretty sure that the people complaining about the bone-headedness on power trials have voiced their disgust in the threads where these things didn't happen on power trails.

 

However- some of the bone-headedness seems isolated to the powertrail. Guess that might be why it got archived, huh? I mean, I wasn't there but I've seen enough posts from people that have been there, a couple of YouTube videos and, well, the archival of this series, to confirm what has been said all along.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

 

Sure they do. But they don't do them every tenth of a mile, in a straight line.

 

The road out there wasn't just in a straight line, there was some curves too. ;)

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My pet peeve is that some individuals don't show the same aggravation to the stupid cacher tricks performed outside of power trails. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior including driving drunk. Those cachers that do stupid things on a power trail? I guarantee they are doing stupid things when they cache around town.

 

Sure they do. But they don't do them every tenth of a mile, in a straight line.

 

The road out there wasn't just in a straight line, there was some curves too. ;)

Especially when one of the drivers saw a snowplow coming up fast in the rear view mirror! :lol:

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But you don't understand. In one of the best non-ice cream analogies I have seen in this forum, Canadian Rockies has pointed out that if you are geocaching around town you're playing tennis, but if you are on a power trail it's football. Sure someone might get hurt playing tennis but you wouldn't tell them to wear a helmet. :unsure:

 

Since when do you wear a helmet when you're playing football?

 

Oh, you must be thinking of "american" football... :rolleyes::laughing:

What are these?

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But you don't understand. In one of the best non-ice cream analogies I have seen in this forum, Canadian Rockies has pointed out that if you are geocaching around town you're playing tennis, but if you are on a power trail it's football. Sure someone might get hurt playing tennis but you wouldn't tell them to wear a helmet. :unsure:

 

Since when do you wear a helmet when you're playing football?

 

Oh, you must be thinking of "american" football... :rolleyes::laughing:

What are these?

Those are helmets from north american football teams.

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But you don't understand. In one of the best non-ice cream analogies I have seen in this forum, Canadian Rockies has pointed out that if you are geocaching around town you're playing tennis, but if you are on a power trail it's football. Sure someone might get hurt playing tennis but you wouldn't tell them to wear a helmet. :unsure:

 

Since when do you wear a helmet when you're playing football?

 

Oh, you must be thinking of "american" football... :rolleyes::laughing:

What are these?

Those are helmets from north american football teams.

 

Oh, you could go ahead and say they are Canadian Football helmets. Of course 3/4 of the players are American. IBTL, by the way. :ph34r:

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Maybe it's time for some facts instead of nonsense about snowplows. Driving to SF today, I heard a call to the local lawyer talk show by a person who had been arrested and his vehicle impounded for "street racing." He was not exceeding the speed limit, but he was next to another car and raced his engine at a stop light.

 

The lawyer said he was out of luck; the arrest was valid. So I looked into the Nevada state laws and found this:

 

From here:

 

NRS 484B.653 Reckless driving and organization of unauthorized speed contests prohibited; penalties; court to suspend driver’s license of certain offenders; additional penalty for violation committed in work zone.

1. It is unlawful for a person to:

(a ) Drive a vehicle in willful or wanton disregard of the safety of persons or property.

(b ) Drive a vehicle in an unauthorized speed contest on a public highway.

(c ) Organize an unauthorized speed contest on a public highway.

Ê A violation of paragraph (a) or (b ) of this subsection or subsection 1 of NRS 484B.550 constitutes reckless driving.

2. A person who violates paragraph (a) of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor and:

(a ) For the first offense, shall be punished:

(1) By a fine of not less than $250 but not more than $1,000; or

(2) By both fine and imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 6 months

 

IANAL, but I would say that the description by a previous poster of their behavior doing the ET series quite clearly demonstrates a violation of this law. They decided to treat the series as a race and drove accordingly. That they treated it as a race is clear from the language used to describe this contest ("We just laughed and poured on the coals even more", "we ran their asses ragged", "It felt real good to reel them in").

 

Aside from the quite definitive violation of the law, I would say that the language does not reflect well on the cachers engaged in the activity, either. Geocaching is not meant to be an illegal contest with unwilling participants.

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Maybe it's time for some facts instead of nonsense about snowplows. Driving to SF today, I heard a call to the local lawyer talk show by a person who had been arrested and his vehicle impounded for "street racing." He was not exceeding the speed limit, but he was next to another car and raced his engine at a stop light.

 

The lawyer said he was out of luck; the arrest was valid. So I looked into the Nevada state laws and found this:

 

From here:

 

NRS 484B.653 Reckless driving and organization of unauthorized speed contests prohibited; penalties; court to suspend driver's license of certain offenders; additional penalty for violation committed in work zone.

1. It is unlawful for a person to:

(a ) Drive a vehicle in willful or wanton disregard of the safety of persons or property.

(b ) Drive a vehicle in an unauthorized speed contest on a public highway.

(c ) Organize an unauthorized speed contest on a public highway.

Ê A violation of paragraph (a) or (b ) of this subsection or subsection 1 of NRS 484B.550 constitutes reckless driving.

2. A person who violates paragraph (a) of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor and:

(a ) For the first offense, shall be punished:

(1) By a fine of not less than $250 but not more than $1,000; or

(2) By both fine and imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 6 months

 

IANAL, but I would say that the description by a previous poster of their behavior doing the ET series quite clearly demonstrates a violation of this law. They decided to treat the series as a race and drove accordingly. That they treated it as a race is clear from the language used to describe this contest ("We just laughed and poured on the coals even more", "we ran their asses ragged", "It felt real good to reel them in").

 

Aside from the quite definitive violation of the law, I would say that the language does not reflect well on the cachers engaged in the activity, either. Geocaching is not meant to be an illegal contest with unwilling participants.

 

Eh....A police officer can always write you up for something, maybe careless driving. But this statute applies specifically to speed contests, it does not apply to this situation.

 

Mom! Can we change the channel back to Snowplows?!?!

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Geocaching is not meant to be an illegal contest with unwilling participants.

Except that, as far as we know, no tickets were issued. We don't even know if a ticket was issued for the infamous snowplow incident. Could they have been ticketed? I suppose so, although I'm sure that law is aimed at auto racing, not powercache racing. But that is not what got the trail shut down.
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