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Archival of E.T. Highway Series


knowschad
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I don't know the reasons for the action now being taken but I sure would like to. Or more exactly I sure would like those who plan on placing other power trails to know. It would be nice if the mistakes could be avoided in the future.

The CO's logged a note regarding 18 caches (091-119) being archived because of a problem and then being moved. The next note is from Miss Jenn announcing the entire series is being archived. Sounds like a sledge hammer being used to drive a tack to me.

 

I was wondering about that as well, and I'd sure love to get more information about it! Which, by the way is why I wish that people would keep their opinions on power trails, medians, and football teams out of this thread!!

Thank you.

 

I too was wondering about the axe coming down on the power trail when one moment you get a notice from the CO about some being achived and then Miss Jenn mostly a reveiwer comes out to say that they all are being achived.

 

I had been watching this since Oct. last year and haddn't seen any indication of problems from the trail until recently. Even had e-mailed the CO's last week to let them know what our intensions were in regrads to doing the run and at that time they haddn't said anything about the situation getting to this point. I have booked airfare tickets for 4 to do this run and now have to figure another plan. So now it's up to Plan D. I thought that maybe a warning would have been a better idea from Groundspeak with a time limit as to achiving would have been a better way to go. Seen that there are others out there in the same shoes expecting a chance to do the trail.

 

Just a little more notice in advance would have been nice I thought.

 

If Groundspeak got word from somebody official that these caches were not supposed to be there, they would (I assume) proceed to archive them immediately. Groundspeak probably won't give the details as to why they are being archived because of confidentiality. And since they locked the cache pages to prevent them from becoming "forums", the CO's can't post a reason there. Hopefully the CO's will post something to this thread to explain everything; if not, we won't likely find out the whole story.

A. Groundspeak will never post anything regarding their actions.

B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

C. We are left to speculate.

D. Future power trail constructors will make the same mistakes because what caused the problem has not been explained.

 

It is interesting to note that the caches the CO's mentioned as being a problem were in Lincoln county, not Nye county where our friendly dump truck driver works.

Edited by jholly
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Now if they would just outlaw caches placed in the medians of divided roadways.

The geocaches in the medians and on bridges are against the guidelines of Geocaching.com along with multiple other placements. Please refer to (http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=306)

 

Nothing about medians in there that I can see.

 

Cache is problematic due to its ""proximity"" to a public structure ""including and not limited"" to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, military bases, schools, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

 

prox•im•i•ty 

–noun

nearness in place, time, order, occurrence, or relation.

 

But what does proximity to bridges or other public structures have to do with medians? Medians can be miles from any of the listed items. It's the prox•im•i•ty that's the issue, not the fact that it's a median.

 

as with the ET Highway. Cachers not finding a sutiable place to park (just stoping in the road) creates an issue all its own.

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Now if they would just outlaw caches placed in the medians of divided roadways.

The geocaches in the medians and on bridges are against the guidelines of Geocaching.com along with multiple other placements. Please refer to (http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=306)

 

Nothing about medians in there that I can see.

Sorry - apples and oranges. Not a proximity issue as you originally pointed out.

 

Cache is problematic due to its ""proximity"" to a public structure ""including and not limited"" to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, military bases, schools, hospitals, airports and other such locations.

 

prox•im•i•ty 

–noun

nearness in place, time, order, occurrence, or relation.

 

But what does proximity to bridges or other public structures have to do with medians? Medians can be miles from any of the listed items. It's the prox•im•i•ty that's the issue, not the fact that it's a median.

 

as with the ET Highway. Cachers not finding a sutiable place to park (just stoping in the road) creates an issue all its own.

 

Sorry - apples and oranges. Not a proximity issue as you originally described.

Edited by BBWolf+3Pigs
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A. Groundspeak will never post anything regarding their actions.

B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

C. We are left to speculate.

D. Future power trail constructors will make the same mistakes because what caused the problem has not been explained.

 

It is interesting to note that the caches the CO's mentioned as being a problem were in Lincoln county, not Nye county where our friendly dump truck driver works.

 

I agree with A, and think C and D are likely, but why wouldn't Groundspeak want the CO's to explain it?

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Now if they would just outlaw caches placed in the medians of divided roadways.

The geocaches in the medians and on bridges are against the guidelines of Geocaching.com along with multiple other placements. Please refer to (http://support.Groun...=kb.page&id=306)

But the reviewer will continue to publish all geocache placements.

As I have run into down in East Texas little if any reviewing is being done at this time.

1) Geocache Nano's approved on bridge guard rails.

2)100's of plastic geocache placements in the National Forest (that are prone to controlled burns every other year) with no permit being filed or approved.

3) I have seen a geocache on the big blue U.S. Post box outside the local post that had been active for just under 5 years with 80+ smiles.

 

Geocache - Responsibly

http://www.geocacheresponsibly.info

 

Stop making up your own rules.

 

Please refer to original responce I do not make up rules. I have just informed myself as best I could.

Would you guys please take this discussion of the guidelines and rules to another thread? Thank you.

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I thought that maybe a warning would have been a better idea from Groundspeak with a time limit as to achiving would have been a better way to go. Seen that there are others out there in the same shoes expecting a chance to do the trail.

 

Just a little more notice in advance would have been nice I thought.

 

I think the CO's warnings on the cache pages should have been enough. Even when it was brought to everyone's attention that there were issues people continued to drive beside the road and into the desert and park on the road instead of pulling onto the shoulder. I think that if everyone had paid attention to the previous warnings this trail might still be in action. But since some people were more concerned with making things easy for themselves than using commonsense I guess we will never know.

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......

1) As far as bridges - Ask Prime Reviewer - When I wanted to place a bridge series - I was told that placing any caches no mater what size near a bridge was against the guidelines of geocaching. Being that when a bridge would be maintained the cache could be considered a bomb. Note the multiple bomb scares recently.

 

2) As for the National Forest restrictions and permits. The National Forest, State Parks, and Historical sights/Markers all fall under Federal rule. Which are under several different reglatory offices. example the southern National Forest Referance (http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf) And before you comment on the law stating Atlanta, Georga. Atlanta, Georgia is where the regional office is for region 8.

 

...

Ignorance is no longer an excuse. Please learn your states laws associated with Geocaching. We would like the sport to continue for a long time.

 

Yikes.

 

Bridges are not universally off limits. Rural dirt road bridges often have a cache. Maybe no new ones in your area but old ones need not be archived.

 

Maybe your area requires permits for National Forest. Mine does not. State parks here do but WMA's do not. Historical Markers here do not.

 

I'm not ignorant - I know what is allowed. I know because I help craft some of the local policies.

 

Yikes. I have no idea what this has to do with the ET series as it did not violate any existing policies but apparently violates a new state (local) policy.

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A. Groundspeak will never post anything regarding their actions.

B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

C. We are left to speculate.

D. Future power trail constructors will make the same mistakes because what caused the problem has not been explained.

 

It is interesting to note that the caches the CO's mentioned as being a problem were in Lincoln county, not Nye county where our friendly dump truck driver works.

 

I agree with A, and think C and D are likely, but why wouldn't Groundspeak want the CO's to explain it?

The frog might look bad.

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B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

You are incorrect, jholly. Clay4&whtwolfden, the account that owns the series, and their other related accounts are welcome to participate in this forum thread.

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A. Groundspeak will never post anything regarding their actions.

B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

C. We are left to speculate.

D. Future power trail constructors will make the same mistakes because what caused the problem has not been explained.

 

It is interesting to note that the caches the CO's mentioned as being a problem were in Lincoln county, not Nye county where our friendly dump truck driver works.

 

A. This seems silly as it's only a matter of time until someone reaches out to NDOT to get the details (assuming they were even involved in the final decision).

 

B. Again, this seems silly. The CO's are going to talk to their friends and family, it will make the circles sooner or later. Why not get it from the horses mouths here? It is USEFUL information (if posted in the proper tone) and it would hardly violate any TOS (yes, yes, I know, GS reserves the right to interpret and change the TOS as they wish).

 

C. Which doesn't reduce GS or cacher headaches in the future. For all we know, someone was offended by the shape of the caches on a map (Someone saw the Flying Spaghetti Monster eating spare ribs or something.)

 

D. Yes. And when those new cachers are affected and inevitably search for this, they will see that GS offered no guidance in these situations, wasted the CO's time and money. This is bound to have... "mixed reactions" among the user base.

 

Update: While I was typing, MissJen threw water on prior point B (curse my slow alien fingers!). A, C, D remain to be seen.

Edited by daschpeeg
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The following is from one of the cache owners ...

 

If you haven't heard...we had to archive all 1021 ET caches as of today (1 March). I am afraid it is WAY our of our hands. Groundspeak pulled the plug on the caches due to Nevada Department Of Transportation filed a law suit through the Nevada General Attorney's office. There is nothing we can do.... So sorry for the bad news...it happened fast! A close call with a snow plow was what finally pushed NDOT over the edge

 

We are both disappointed, but understand the seriousness of a law suit, something NO ONE wanted.

 

You can still grab 800+ down on Route 66 (GC2J17A) same distance from Las Vegas as the ET trail

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The following is from one of the cache owners ...

 

If you haven't heard...we had to archive all 1021 ET caches as of today (1 March). I am afraid it is WAY our of our hands. Groundspeak pulled the plug on the caches due to Nevada Department Of Transportation filed a law suit through the Nevada General Attorney's office. There is nothing we can do.... So sorry for the bad news...it happened fast! A close call with a snow plow was what finally pushed NDOT over the edge

 

We are both disappointed, but understand the seriousness of a law suit, something NO ONE wanted.

 

You can still grab 800+ down on Route 66 (GC2J17A) same distance from Las Vegas as the ET trail

 

Thanks for providing the information, it's very helpful.

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The following is from one of the cache owners ...

 

If you haven't heard...we had to archive all 1021 ET caches as of today (1 March). I am afraid it is WAY our of our hands. Groundspeak pulled the plug on the caches due to Nevada Department Of Transportation filed a law suit through the Nevada General Attorney's office. There is nothing we can do.... So sorry for the bad news...it happened fast! A close call with a snow plow was what finally pushed NDOT over the edge

 

We are both disappointed, but understand the seriousness of a law suit, something NO ONE wanted.

 

You can still grab 800+ down on Route 66 (GC2J17A) same distance from Las Vegas as the ET trail

If a lawsuit was filed, the specific complaint may now be a matter of public record. Wish I knew an easy way to find that documentation online. I'm sure it's somewhere.

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If a lawsuit was filed, the specific complaint may now be a matter of public record. Wish I knew an easy way to find that documentation online. I'm sure it's somewhere.

 

Dollars to Donuts, I bet that it was a strongly worded letter from the Attorney General's office, not a filed lawsuit.

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If a lawsuit was filed, the specific complaint may now be a matter of public record. Wish I knew an easy way to find that documentation online. I'm sure it's somewhere.

 

Dollars to Donuts, I bet that it was a strongly worded letter from the Attorney General's office, not a filed lawsuit.

 

Even if it were a lawsuit, I doubt it would get to any government agency web site that quickly.

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A. Groundspeak will never post anything regarding their actions.

 

But they did. You might have missed it:

 

This cache is being archived after a request from The Nevada Department of Transportation.

 

B. It has been probably been explained to the CO's they can not post anything in a public forum about what happened.

 

Miss Jenn has stated that this is not the case

 

C. We are left to speculate.

 

No speculation necessary, see A

 

D. Future power trail constructors will make the same mistakes because what caused the problem has not been explained.

 

As long as power trails are allowed the problem will exist. These things attract hordes of geocachers, the very thing that concerns many land managers, and too many of these "geocachers" act irresponsibly.

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...

As long as power trails are allowed the problem will exist. These things attract hordes of geocachers, the very thing that concerns many land managers, and too many of these "geocachers" act irresponsibly.

Agreed.

 

At an absolute minimum, some 'rules' need to be written for both hiders and seekers. And we as a community need to self police to enforce them.

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I was wondering about that as well, and I'd sure love to get more information about it! Which, by the way is why I wish that people would keep their opinions on power trails, medians, and football teams out of this thread!!

 

If only there was some sort of forum-assigned authority figure who could monitor threads and keep them on topic... ;)

 

Oh yeah, now I remember why I don't visit the forums, the people suck.

 

I'd say something like this too. But, I might be ................ again.

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Many people are curious about what will happen to the Route 66 caches. Groundspeak has not been contacted at all by the land owners or land managers for that, so we have no plans.

 

Just wait for the next bad press and possible statewide regulations then I guess. I wonder if Nevada DOT will make a policy for ALL their land now? I wonder if anything could have been done to avoid that potential problem. http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1051337-reinstate-old-powertrails-guidelines

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Just wait for the next bad press and possible statewide regulations then I guess. I wonder if Nevada DOT will make a policy for ALL their land now? I wonder if anything could have been done to avoid that potential problem. http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1051337-reinstate-old-powertrails-guidelines

 

The entire situation is shameful and sad. We all stand to lose so much as a result of the massively careless actions of a handful of thoughtless geocachers. :(

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Sign the Petition show Your Support!

 

Show your Support for the Sport! Sign DougShep's Petition to Bring Back the ET Run.

 

-ygo2slow

Team Low Tech - 936

http://web.me.com/ygo2slow

"Cache the Planet"

 

No thanks. I'm not going to show my support for what I think is one of the worst aspects of our sport and the most dangerous to its long term viability - the thirst for ######s

Edited by briansnat
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Sign the Petition show Your Support!

 

Show your Support for the Sport! Sign DougShep's Petition to Bring Back the ET Run.

 

-ygo2slow

Team Low Tech - 936

http://web.me.com/ygo2slow

"Cache the Planet"

 

What part of "lawsuit" and "almost collided with a snowplow" are you unable to understand. We have some people here that excel in explaining such things if you need assistance. Somehow, I don't think a petition is going to change any DOT minds. But, good luck with that.

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The entire situation is shameful and sad. We all stand to lose so much as a result of the massively careless actions of a handful of thoughtless geocachers. :(

It's not obvious "thoughtless geocachers" deserve all the credit. After all, the series was approved on a major federal highway. This is also the case with portions of at least two other power trails. It doesn't take much of an imagination to see all sorts of issues pulling in and out of traffic.

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Was the mass archival restricted to just the caches in that series, placed by that CO? Any other caches that were there previously get thrown out with the bath-water, so to speak? :unsure:

It does not appear so. Lots of older caches, as well as the Alien Head, remain.

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Was the mass archival restricted to just the caches in that series, placed by that CO? Any other caches that were there previously get thrown out with the bath-water, so to speak? :unsure:

It does not appear so. Lots of older caches, as well as the Alien Head, remain.

I would guess someone wrote a scrip(s) to deal with it.

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Was the mass archival restricted to just the caches in that series, placed by that CO? Any other caches that were there previously get thrown out with the bath-water, so to speak? :unsure:

It does not appear so. Lots of older caches, as well as the Alien Head, remain.

I would guess someone wrote a scrip(s) to deal with it.

And that guess would be wrong.

 

Visit a sampling of cache pages in various points along the trail. You will see many different names, including my own, all of whom pitched in as part of a team effort. The cache owner was one of the accounts assisting in the archivals today.

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I would guess someone wrote a scrip(s) to deal with it.

And that guess would be wrong.

 

Visit a sampling of cache pages in various points along the trail. You will see many different names, including my own, all of whom pitched in as part of a team effort. The cache owner was one of the accounts assisting in the archivals today.

Yep. I think that was made clear by MissJen's archival note, actually. Lots of work for lots of folks.

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I would guess someone wrote a scrip(s) to deal with it.

And that guess would be wrong.

 

Visit a sampling of cache pages in various points along the trail. You will see many different names, including my own, all of whom pitched in as part of a team effort. The cache owner was one of the accounts assisting in the archivals today.

Yep. I think that was made clear by MissJen's archival note, actually. Lots of work for lots of folks.

What is the point of 40 developers if not for making something like this easier?

Icky that it all had to be done by hand. I'd hate to have the inbox dealing with all those logs.

 

But very glad the whole issue has been resolved.

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I'd hate to have the inbox dealing with all those logs.

Uhh, that would be the same inbox that's already received over 500,000 "found" logs on all the caches.

 

1,000 archive logs pales in comparison.

That is insanity.

 

And I thought I dealt with too many incoming emails each day.

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its in this blog as well.

http://wherethecacheis.blogspot.com/

one today about the rise and fall of ET highway.

in the last week or so there was an entry for the ET and one for RT 66 trails.

 

when i first heard about it i was like really? how well is this going to fly over the long run?

 

not something i planned on doing, but i can see the draw to it by many.

 

sad to see it come to this, but it can happen.

 

did anyone get hurt or were there just close calls on ppl getting hurt?

or was it just failing to follow rules of the road and common courtesy?

 

Monty

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