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northernpenguin

"Like" Button for Cache Pages

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think about how many visitors an LPC gets, vs. how many visitors a quality cache which requires some amount of effort gets (be it a long hike, multi, puzzle, etc). think about how many visitors of the LPC will "like" it just because they can and got a smiley from it, vs. how many people even can potentially "like" a cache which only gets a handful of visitors per year.

 

True, but as with anything else you will still need to filter on other variables to narrow it down.

A well 'liked' micro at a shopping centre is probably an LPC. On the other hand, a 180km multi cache with 4 likes on it - good chance it's worth looking at.

 

I'd rather have the "Like" metric and it's problems than nothing at all. When you have the full social network thing going --- as in, you have friends on Facebook who's opinion you value - now the "Like" button gets that much better. I can see if someone I know "Likes" a particular cache on their wall .... I may look at that wall.

 

You're in Waterloo, so you know how difficult it is to separate the wheat from the chaff in Southern Ontario. This is another tool that makes it just a tiny bit easier to find the caches I might enjoy doing, I'm all for it.

 

Yes, there's not "unlike" button, yes, it's not a perfect implementation. I'd love to see something more like Digg or Reddit applied to caches where we get a "score" for the caches and you can run a filter for highest rated unfound caches near your home. For now, we get to share caches we like with our social networks. Troublemakers could have their scores halved.

 

Of course a natural extension to this is a community rating system for D/T just like the eBay feedback (and similar sites) ... when 10 people rate a cache, show the average rating for D/T and that fixes the whole misrated caches issue .... but that's a tangent.

 

Geocaches have been featured on Twitter for *years* now, I fail to understand why the "Like" button is a bad thing. You have to invoke it - it doesn't just follow you and automatically like cache for you.

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

 

That's you.

I don't like Magellan, but that doesn't mean they should remove the Send to GPS function for Magellan GPS receivers.

 

If you don't want to see the button, use the Greasemonkey script to hide it.

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Anybody able to do a GM script to hide that? Never been a Facebook user and never will be so that's just clutter to me.

Your wish is my command: GC.com Facebook Don't Like

 

Installing this script will make the Facebook 'Like' buttons disappear from cache pages on your computer only. It requires Firefox and the Greasemonkey add-on or another browser that understands user scripts (like Chrome for example).

 

AZcachemeister liked this! :laughing:

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

 

That's you.

I don't like Magellan, but that doesn't mean they should remove the Send to GPS function for Magellan GPS receivers.

 

If you don't want to see the button, use the Greasemonkey script to hide it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! :laughing::):bad::bad:

 

I think they removed it before they even created it! :P

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

 

That's you.

I don't like Magellan, but that doesn't mean they should remove the Send to GPS function for Magellan GPS receivers.

 

If you don't want to see the button, use the Greasemonkey script to hide it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! :laughing::):bad::bad:

 

I think they removed it before they even created it! :P

 

It's kinda new:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=246235

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

 

That's you.

I don't like Magellan, but that doesn't mean they should remove the Send to GPS function for Magellan GPS receivers.

 

If you don't want to see the button, use the Greasemonkey script to hide it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! :):bad::bad::P

 

I think they removed it before they even created it! :P

 

HOLY CARP BATMAN!! :o:o:laughing:

 

I just looked again and now see there indeed IS 'send to GPS' functionality available for Magellan units.

 

I need to set aside more time to actually READ those inter-office memos! ;)

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Alright, people - CHILL!!! The Like button is just an added feature for that that WANT to use it. No one is forcing you to use it. For those of us that use Facebook, it's an added bonus. If you don't use Facebook, it's not holding you back. All it does it put a link to the cache on your profile. Just a simple little thing, but cool.

 

I don't sit here and gripe about GS partnering up with AT&T just because they developed an iPhone app. I have a Droid. It's just something that is offered that I won't take advantage of.

 

I'd like to hear what you all LIKE about the new features.

 

Thanks for this, but if somebody has installed AdBlock Plus, you can simply set it to ignore by right-click on it - No need for an additional script

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Can you do me a favor, I'm going to go "Like one of your Caches, tell me what you see??

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...e7-8306c2185803

I see "Robert xxx and one other person like this." but that's only because you and I are already friends on Facebook. (And of course xxx is filled in with your real last name.)

 

Obviously I'm not friends with the "one other person" as I don't see his/her name.

 

Edit to complete thought after reading the rest of the thread.

Edited by Lil Devil

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Don't like Face Book. Don't like the feature. It needs to go away.

 

That's you.

I don't like Magellan, but that doesn't mean they should remove the Send to GPS function for Magellan GPS receivers.

 

If you don't want to see the button, use the Greasemonkey script to hide it.

 

HAHAHAHAHA! That's a good one! :):bad::bad::P

 

I think they removed it before they even created it! :P

 

HOLY CARP BATMAN!! :o;):laughing:

 

I just looked again and now see there indeed IS 'send to GPS' functionality available for Magellan units.

 

I need to set aside more time to actually READ those inter-office memos! ;)

 

WHAT A LETDOWN! :P

 

It only works for the 'Triton' series...not on my old antiquated 'Meridian'. :o

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...

I'd like to hear what you all LIKE about the new features.

I will "CHILL" when and if I want to chill, thank you. Resources were used to add this (IMO) idiotic feature... resources that could have been spent addressing more concerns and features that members have asked for. (Yes, many members have asked for some sort of voting system, but I don't think this comes close to what they were asking for). We are here to discuss our opinions... please don't ask us to be quiet.

 

I personally don't "like" the new feature, but would not be so presumptuous to call it idiotic as this person.

There are millions of people on Facebook that will see this "like" feature on "friends" pages and may tune into to GS which would add up to thousands of views and quite possibly more revenue streams for GS.

Bottomline is we don't have to "like" it. It suits a business end purpose of attracting new users.

 

The OP asked for what you LIKE not dislike, perhaps you read the OP incorrectly.

He/she/them asked again for people to calm down and validate and you continue to be disdainful of it.

 

Flame me all you like <possibly offensive word removed by me upon reflection>,but I think the post was completely disrespectful to the OP.

Edited by buttaskotch

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True, but as with anything else you will still need to filter on other variables to narrow it down.

A well 'liked' micro at a shopping centre is probably an LPC. On the other hand, a 180km multi cache with 4 likes on it - good chance it's worth looking at.

maybe. or maybe not. maybe somebody just posted a link to the cache in some forum and the page suddenly got a lot of hits, and a few of the people hit the "like" button just so they can get an update on their FB. or maybe the listing had a funny picture. or maybe <insert any other reason here>. heck, even one person "liking" one listing can immediately cause several other people to "like" it themselves too right away, simply because they've seen it on FB.

 

when you compare it to another rating system like gc-vote, you can see the number of "likes" as the number of above-average votes. but since there's nothing that would tell you how many below-average votes there would be, it makes the number completely meaningless.

 

When you have the full social network thing going --- as in, you have friends on Facebook who's opinion you value - now the "Like" button gets that much better.

it doesn't "get better" through that, it's the only thing that gives it any meaning at all. for the other people like me who don't use facebook at all, it's completely useless and meaningless.

 

You're in Waterloo, so you know how difficult it is to separate the wheat from the chaff in Southern Ontario. This is another tool that makes it just a tiny bit easier to find the caches I might enjoy doing, I'm all for it.

actually i don't have that problem. the listings themselves and the posted logs give me a pretty good idea of what to expect from a cache. and yeah, if you're a facebook user i'm sure you'll find that button useful. but if you're not, then you don't.

 

Geocaches have been featured on Twitter for *years* now, I fail to understand why the "Like" button is a bad thing. You have to invoke it - it doesn't just follow you and automatically like cache for you.

i have no problem with the "like" button really. it's small, i can just ignore it. as long as it doesn't slow page load times or anything like that, i don't care either way. the only downside is that people may think it substitutes a proper rating system, which it really doesn't. maybe GS thinks that now they have the FB thing, they don't need create a real rating system any more, saving them from the work to implement it.

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Dfx:

 

Rather than fall into a bullet by bullet quote each other marathon, I'm going to simply say this - Your mileage may vary. I find the "Like" feature to be useful to me in a small way, you don't.

 

I 100% agree this does not replace a proper cache rating system, and yes, most likely someone at Groundspeak feels this may be enough to keep the masses happy. Even if Groundspeak implements a full cache ranking/rating system I would hope the "Like" button stays, so I can share with my social network in that context.

 

I am a full active user on Facebook, so I see value in this feature - just as I saw value when the "log this cache on Twitter" functionality appeared. I'm sure whatever social network comes down the pipe next will also get some implementation on Geocaching.com, as it is (surprise!) basically a social network in itself -- we connect with other cachers and interact via microblog like postings on cache pages.

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I think the primary issue with the 'like' button is that it's not hosted by GC. share on twitter is a function that takes you to method of sharing, it's opt in. Facebook's "Like" feature is an iframe which a forced hit to Facebook, not native to GC. Now if GC were to provide a native link to a function that would allow you to 'like' or 'share', that would be a step in the right direction.

 

If they provided an option to allow a user to turn off the 'like' button on GC entirely, that would be best. Heck, even if it defaulted to 'on' for the purposes of actually having it, turning it off ONCE is far better than, for example, converting every owned travel bug from default collectible to non-collectible. :laughing:

 

The latter would, of course, also resolve the former. Or for those who simply don't want to see the button at work for instance, the option could be a client-side cookie, so a work machine would have it not visible and a home machine would have it visible. As a web developer, I know this is not a complex feature to build. Priority and time for GC devs are the motivating factors, obviously. =)

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I like the Like, reading this thread makes me wonder sometimes.............

(not wonder about the Like though)

'bug

Edited by litngbug

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ever since the addition of the "like" button i thought it reminds me of something and couldn't quite figure out what, this morning it hit me...this is it

 

borat-high-five.jpg

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New cache in my area...hasn't been found by ANYONE yet. Two people "like" it already.

 

Boy, that's a helpful feature!

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I use Facebook for reasons unrelated to caching and geocaching.com for reasons unrelated to keeping in touch with my friends and family. They are like Marvel and DC. Every once in a blue moon there will be some sort of cross-over event, but this is a rare occurrence.

 

I will never use this feature, I don't see it's value*, and I wish that the resources had been allocated to any number of other features that the user-base has actually stated a desire for.

 

 

*Actually, it's value is on par with any of the other things that I "like" on Facebook. So if the desired effect was to put geocaching in the same realm as the post my sister made about my nephew annoucing to the entire resturant that "mommy has to go potty", " Dropping Something, Then Catching It In Mid-Air And Feeling Like A ninja!" and of course, " i am willing to risk salmonella to eat raw cookie dough" then mission accomplished.

 

Killer marketing strategy.

Edited by Castle Mischief

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When I saw the "like" button appear I thought it would be a great idea, as I've often wondered when caching a new area how I could pick out really cool caches to find. But I don't like the fact that it puts your name on it (yes, I am on FB), and I seem to "like" every page I visit, without saying so, which is dumb (especially as I've found a few LPCs lately and I really don't "like" them.) Surely that makes it completely redundant? No doubt I can "unlike" it, but why should I have to.

 

Going to remove it as soon as I can!

 

On another note, I've lost my Greasemonkey scripts again - I hope they fix the VIP one, as I really miss it!

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The 'like' button is only available to those with facebook accounts. Totally not in keeping with the concept that geocaching is availabe to all. Will we soon have 'facebook caches'? Only those with facebook accounts can access the cache page???

I like the concept of 'like'. But limiting it only to those wtiht facebook accounts is discriminatory.

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The 'like' button is only available to those with facebook accounts. Totally not in keeping with the concept that geocaching is availabe to all. Will we soon have 'facebook caches'? Only those with facebook accounts can access the cache page???

I like the concept of 'like'. But limiting it only to those wtiht facebook accounts is discriminatory.

If it was a rating system then, yes is would seem strange that only people with Facebook accounts can rate caches. (I won't mention that only people with GCVOTE accounts can use that system to rate caches).

 

The Facebook "like" button is solely an option for Facebook users who asked for more integration with facebook. It is not unlike the the ability to "Send To GPS" being available only for people who have certain brands of GPS. If you have a Facebook account and you are surfing almost anywhere on the web now, you might find a "like" button. Clicking it simple indicates on Facebook that you liked something on that page. (Ok not quite. Now everybody sees a count of how many people have click the button and if you are logged in to Facebook you might see the names of your Facebook friends.) If you're not a Facebook member the button is at most a minor annoyance. Sure Facebook could record that your IP address visited that page, but are they really going to do this? I suspect the privacy watchdogs are already all over Facebook to ensure that non-facebook members hits aren't recorded. But if you still don't trust them there are certainly methods to block the access to Facebook.

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I think objection to Facebook integration is more because of what it represents: the downhill slide that hit Facebook might be coming for geocaching. More and more useless features that take away from the beautiful simplicity and make it unenjoyable.

 

Just saying.

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<snip>

 

The Facebook "like" button is solely an option for Facebook users who asked for more integration with facebook. It is not unlike the the ability to "Send To GPS" being available only for people who have certain brands of GPS. If you have a Facebook account and you are surfing almost anywhere on the web now, you might find a "like" button. Clicking it simple indicates on Facebook that you liked something on that page. (Ok not quite. Now everybody sees a count of how many people have click the button and if you are logged in to Facebook you might see the names of your Facebook friends.) If you're not a Facebook member the button is at most a minor annoyance. Sure Facebook could record that your IP address visited that page, but are they really going to do this? I suspect the privacy watchdogs are already all over Facebook to ensure that non-facebook members hits aren't recorded. But if you still don't trust them there are certainly methods to block the access to Facebook.

 

I think the negative reaction is because it's more personal than what you describe in this case, Toz. If GC puts Facebook links on its main page, there would not be this negative reaction. The problem is, they put the links on individual cache pages. This makes it seems like we support FB. Very few people have a negative reaction to "send to GPS." But clearly, many people resent having their cache page seem like an advertisement for FB. Having it on our cache pages makes it seem like we promote it. To me, it's like having an advertisement for Walmart on my cache page; I don't like Walmart and I don't want to promote it. I don't care if others want to use FB but I think it's rude to have our cache pages promote it whether we want it or not.

 

There have helpful suggestions given here that would resolve it. Why not make it optional, so the people who support FB and want the integration can have it, and those who don't needn't feel like something they don't support is being promoted on their cache page. A few years from now, maybe we'll all be there. But people don't like to feel manipulated, and that's what this feels like.

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one thing i find strange about the whole setup is that GS requires people to have a GS account to view the full details of a cache listing, yet they encourage to send links to the listings to a vast public audience which has nothing to do with geocaching and therefore can't even make proper use of the listings.

 

unless they just see it as a way to get more potentially paying "customers"...

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one thing i find strange about the whole setup is that GS requires people to have a GS account to view the full details of a cache listing, yet they encourage to send links to the listings to a vast public audience which has nothing to do with geocaching and therefore can't even make proper use of the listings.

 

unless they just see it as a way to get more potentially paying "customers"...

 

Bingo.

Geocaching.com is a commercial enterprise, and Jeremy+Co want to have food on their tables.

 

I am viewing the pushback on the Facebook integration (can I really call it integration, it's a simple iframe) as a massive overreaction, fueled by popular media's recent negative coverage of the site. Most websites with community content have a whole bunch of share on this, post link to that type buttons all over the place.

 

You are required to setup a geocaching account, and agree to the Groundspeak TOS before using the cache information (coordinates). I don't see how extending a link to Facebook is any worse for caches than the http://coord.info site or me posting a link to a personal blog or Twitter account.

 

How would we like it if Groundspeak were to go the other way based on this feedback and implement a paywall system with links from offsite being redirected to the Geocaching.com homepage? We'd go bonkers if they did that, yet we're upset that they choose the opposite.

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1. Make it optional in user profiles.

2. Change it to a "Share on Facebook" image button hosted on GC, linking to FB.

3. Give owners the option to not show the button on their caches.

Everyone = happy.

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1. Make it optional in user profiles.

2. Change it to a "Share on Facebook" image button hosted on GC, linking to FB.

3. Give owners the option to not show the button on their caches.

Everyone = happy.

 

Exactly! An easy solution.

 

So why the resistance? Why the silence from GS?

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I think the negative reaction is because it's more personal than what you describe in this case, Toz. If GC puts Facebook links on its main page, there would not be this negative reaction. The problem is, they put the links on individual cache pages. This makes it seems like we support FB. Very few people have a negative reaction to "send to GPS." But clearly, many people resent having their cache page seem like an advertisement for FB. Having it on our cache pages makes it seem like we promote it. To me, it's like having an advertisement for Walmart on my cache page; I don't like Walmart and I don't want to promote it. I don't care if others want to use FB but I think it's rude to have our cache pages promote it whether we want it or not.

Your page? Since when is some page with a URL pointing to www.geocaching.com your's. It's no more yours than a Facebook page belongs to the user whose name is on top of it. Both Facebook and Geocaching.com allow users to provide some content on their websites. They both have Terms of Use to limit just what you can do on that page. Both reserve for themselves the control of the overall layout of the page and the ability to include certain links and even advertising on the page.

 

At one time, some people resorted to various HTML tricks to alter the appearance of their cache pages. So Groundspeak began running pages through HTMLTidy and stripping out HTML elements they didn't like. We have no control over the cache page except for what Groundspeak gives us. We can update the description and add attributes, but we can't change the cache type once the cache is published nor move the coordinates more than a certain amount. We are told to maintain the quality of post to the page and to delete bogus logs, yet we are told we can't delete logs if someone fails to comply with an additional logging requirement we have on the page. We can't prevent someone from listing our cache in a public bookmark list and having it appear on the page. We can't hide the number of people watching our cache (nor can we see who they are).

 

You do not own the cache page.

 

P.S. In looking around for infomation about the Facebook Like feature, I found a number of bloggers who had written blogs critical of this feature. Interestingly, the blogging websites all put a Facebook Like buttons on these blog pages. I don't think anyone mistook the Like button on the page as some how representing support for the button from the blogger who was being critical of it in their content.

Edited by tozainamboku

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You do not own the cache page.

 

True, but we have some control...we can archive our cache pages.

 

Is it so much to ask to have an option to not have the Facebook discriminatory rating system on premium member pages?

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You do not own the cache page.

 

True, but we have some control...we can archive our cache pages.

 

Is it so much to ask to have an option to not have the Facebook discriminatory rating system on premium member pages?

 

I would say, no - in the same way you cannot prevent advertising banners for free users of Geocaching.com on your page, or prevent bookmarking of your cache page.

 

The only way to prevent Geocaching.com from adding "features" like this, is to remove your content from Geocaching.com (and possibly list it somewhere else). Be prepared for the massive drop in visitors to your cache page.

 

Why do we want to prevent non-cachers from being exposed to the cache pages through Facebook again? I thought we liked it when people visit our caches. I for one LOVE seeing "This was my first cache" in the logs posted to my caches.

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Why do we want to prevent non-cachers from being exposed to the cache pages through Facebook again? I thought we liked it when people visit our caches. I for one LOVE seeing "This was my first cache" in the logs posted to my caches.

 

That doesn't bother me so much. What really bothers me is waiting and hoping for a rating system (something similar to gcvote (and maybe even better) but in-house), especially after OpinioNate said that GS was considering a rating system. Then they throw out this bone. It feels like a lack of respect to the members who were naively hoping that GS cared about its members. If they want a tie-in to Facebook couldn't they have come up with something that didn't quack like a rating system?

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The 'like' button is only available to those with facebook accounts. Totally not in keeping with the concept that geocaching is availabe to all.

Ummm. Geocaching is available to all. Recording on Facebook that you like something, is, naturally enough, limited to Facebook members. That seems to be moderately intuitive. (It's not relevant to this discussion how "discriminatory" it is to only allow access to something if you have an account that can be set up in two minutes, with a sock puppet, free of charge, but: it's not very discriminatory at all. Srsly.)

Will we soon have 'facebook caches'? Only those with facebook accounts can access the cache page???

You missed out "Will Facebook launch its own GPS?????" and "Will Facebook eat my dog???????????". :unsure:

I like the concept of 'like'. But limiting it only to those wtiht facebook accounts is discriminatory.

"Liking" something, in the Facebook sense, is Facebook's invention. They probably have a patent on it or something. The whole point is to provoke interest in Geocaching among the Liker's FB friends who may not even be geocachers. This is not a rating system.

Is it so much to ask to have an option to not have the Facebook discriminatory rating system on premium member pages?

Again, this is not a rating system, nor is it discriminatory. And many Premium Members are happily "liking" caches.

 

FWIW, I have absolutely no intention of using this feature. But the loss of 1500 pixels just under the little map really doesn't matter to me. I'm not sure I understand what the huge deal is here.

Edited by sTeamTraen

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A cache listing is a partnership - GC hosts the site and we provide the content. A good long-term partnership is usually based on mutual respect. Putting things not asked for on the cache page - yes, of course GC can do it. They are certainly much more powerful than any given cache owner. The question is, why does GC choose marketing strategies that upset the people who place caches and create the cache page content (such as the FB link and the giant L&F banner) when there seem to be better options, such as the one proposed earlier to make the FB link optional - obviously many would choose it, and that number would probably grow over time if the word about this feature spread positively.

Edited by succotash

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<snip>The whole point is to provoke interest in Geocaching among the Liker's FB friends who may not even be geocachers. This is not a rating system.<snip>

 

Thank you, sTeamTraen. Facebook "Like" is definitely not a replacement for a rating system*. Many people use Facebook so this was a quick and easy way to integrate Geocaching.com so that people have a quick way to show their friends cool caches. Try not to read anything more into it than that. A true rating system that is actually purpose-built is still a goal of ours.

 

*I use the term "rating system" loosely. We want something smarter that hopefully takes into account a person's preferences as well as the preferences of the person doing the rating.

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<snip>The whole point is to provoke interest in Geocaching among the Liker's FB friends who may not even be geocachers. This is not a rating system.<snip>

 

Thank you, sTeamTraen. Facebook "Like" is definitely not a replacement for a rating system*. Many people use Facebook so this was a quick and easy way to integrate Geocaching.com so that people have a quick way to show their friends cool caches. Try not to read anything more into it than that. A true rating system that is actually purpose-built is still a goal of ours.

 

*I use the term "rating system" loosely. We want something smarter that hopefully takes into account a person's preferences as well as the preferences of the person doing the rating.

 

Thank you for an official word from management.

 

But why does it take so long to get feedback? 5 days of silence from GS management and tons of anxiety in the forums before hearing an official word is really quite stressful.

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A cache listing is a partnership - GC hosts the site and we provide the content. A good long-term partnership is usually based on mutual respect. Putting things not asked for on the cache page - yes, of course GC can do it. They are certainly much more powerful than any given cache owner. The question is, why does GC choose marketing strategies that upset the people who place caches and create the cache page content (such as the FB link and the giant L&F banner) when there seem to be better options, such as the one proposed earlier to make the FB link optional - obviously many would choose it, and that number would probably grow over time if the word about this feature spread positively.

QFT. And bolded for emphasis.

 

And those whose argument is essentially "well I don't care, so why should you?" have no argument. Clearly these updates - whether you think they deserve conflict or are so utterly trivial and arguing about them is juvenile - are causing a ruckus among vocal paying members. If the worst that happens is that only a tiny fraction of paying members decide not to renew their memberships, and GS is ok with that, then so be it. Doesn't change the fact that many of us simply some of the design decisions being made are just Not Good.

 

I'm on board with the 'I don't care if the facebook like button or L&F banner are there' group - I have greasemonkey getting rid of them. Does that mean it's all ok then and GS has no responsibility to listen to customers because they can make their own workarounds if they want? Um, no. As a designer and as someone with opinions about how an organization should run a business for paying customers, I still think it's simply bad decision making, on whatever level it's happening at.

 

Quick edit: overlapped with OpinioNate's comment. Thanks for the response on the issue.

So can you comment as to why GS favours the "Like" button over a "Share" button, when the latter would result in FAR less anxiety over privacy concerns and browsable HTML content?

Edited by thebruce0

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<snip>The whole point is to provoke interest in Geocaching among the Liker's FB friends who may not even be geocachers. This is not a rating system.<snip>

 

Thank you, sTeamTraen. Facebook "Like" is definitely not a replacement for a rating system*. Many people use Facebook so this was a quick and easy way to integrate Geocaching.com so that people have a quick way to show their friends cool caches. Try not to read anything more into it than that. A true rating system that is actually purpose-built is still a goal of ours.

 

*I use the term "rating system" loosely. We want something smarter that hopefully takes into account a person's preferences as well as the preferences of the person doing the rating.

 

Thanks for clearing that up!

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Exactly! An easy solution.

 

So why the resistance? Why the silence from GS?

 

 

 

as others have said, there are so many other things that need fixing, so many requests for features that would have been much more useful than the darn spambook linlk

 

i don't want anyone rating my caches and i certainly don't trust anyone else's rating in deciding which ones i will visit

Edited by t4e

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A cache listing is a partnership - GC hosts the site and we provide the content. A good long-term partnership is usually based on mutual respect. Putting things not asked for on the cache page - yes, of course GC can do it. They are certainly much more powerful than any given cache owner. The question is, why does GC choose marketing strategies that upset the people who place caches and create the cache page content (such as the FB link and the giant L&F banner) when there seem to be better options, such as the one proposed earlier to make the FB link optional - obviously many would choose it, and that number would probably grow over time if the word about this feature spread positively.

QFT. And bolded for emphasis.

 

And those whose argument is essentially "well I don't care, so why should you?" have no argument. Clearly these updates - whether you think they deserve conflict or are so utterly trivial and arguing about them is juvenile - are causing a ruckus among vocal paying members. If the worst that happens is that only a tiny fraction of paying members decide not to renew their memberships, and GS is ok with that, then so be it. Doesn't change the fact that many of us simply some of the design decisions being made are just Not Good.

 

I'm on board with the 'I don't care if the facebook like button or L&F banner are there' group - I have greasemonkey getting rid of them. Does that mean it's all ok then and GS has no responsibility to listen to customers because they can make their own workarounds if they want? Um, no. As a designer and as someone with opinions about how an organization should run a business for paying customers, I still think it's simply bad decision making, on whatever level it's happening at.

 

Quick edit: overlapped with OpinioNate's comment. Thanks for the response on the issue.

So can you comment as to why GS favours the "Like" button over a "Share" button, when the latter would result in FAR less anxiety over privacy concerns and browsable HTML content?

I think the ruckus is being caused in part because people don't understand what the Facebook Like button is.

 

Some people have a visceral hatred of anything Facebook - possible even of any web-based social networking site. They find links to these sites intrusive and ignore any benefit having links gives to the people that do use these sites. Sure you could make it opt in for each cache owner on their page - but then you loose some of the benefits to Facebook members who will want to report to their friends that they liked some cache that had opted out. Frankly, Facebook could have done this better with some kind of Facebook toolbar that its members installl in their browser. Then non-members wouldn't see the annoying little icon and the text that says how many people liked the page. I suppose Facebook is hoping the non-members will see it and when they click it will sign up for a Facebook account.

 

It is unfortunate that Facebook calls this function "Like" and uses the "thumbs up" icon. Geocachers who have asked for a rating system saw it and thought "Here's the rating system we wanted". But now, OpinioNate has clarified that this is not the cache rating/rewards system that Groundspeak has hinted at.

 

Could the feature be designed better? Probably. Could Facebook allow sites that participate more customization and even allow opt-in logic for user provided content? Sure, but this feature was designed with Facebook and its users interests in mind, and they don't have much interest in addressing concerns of other sites' content providers. My guess is that we have many geocachers who are Facebook members who like "Like" because they now have a way to tie their geocaching to Facebook along with everything else they do. I can't see why I as a cache owner would want to block this functionality from those who want it. No one has presented a compeling reason other than "Facebook is evil" or "This isn't the rating system we asked for". Sure, it's designed to encourage more people to join Facebook. Perhaps it will also make some Facebook users aware that their Facebook friend geocache. But nobody is forced to join Facebook any more than Send To Magellan GPS forces anyone to buy a Magellan GPS. Facebook may have a less obtrusive way to provide links, but these don't have same integrated functionality that "Like" does. Facebook users are getting used to "liking" a large number of websites that support this feature and now that this appears on Geocaching.com cache pages, it's unlikely that you could remove it with out creating "ruckus" from the other side.

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[ The whole point is to provoke interest in Geocaching among the Liker's FB friends who may not even be geocachers.

 

im sorry but i don't see a high chance of that happening, my friends already know i am geocaching and if they have an interest in it will ask in person

 

i think its more likely that the result will be totally different from the intention, i hope i am wrong

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Some people have a visceral hatred of anything Facebook - possible even of any web-based social networking site.

 

i admit, i am one of those that hates FB exclusively, just because of personal experience

 

i have had a Myspace account, and still do, from the time it was launched almost and haven't had as many problems in all those years as i had with FB in 6 month in the life of my account

 

FB is totally uncontrollable, as far as privacy settings go

 

one example is that i kept deleting profiles from my friends list, but guess what unless they delete you too they still have access to spam you with all kinds of crap

 

that amongst other things was the last straw and i finally deleted the account, which only took them 2 months

 

but tbh i actually had doubts about FB right from the beginning.....and that was the fact that they wanted my REAL NAME, DOB....i thought you got to be kidding me, absolutely NO DARN WAY lol...of course i registered with something other than my real name

Edited by t4e

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But why does it take so long to get feedback? 5 days of silence from GS management and tons of anxiety in the forums before hearing an official word is really quite stressful.

one word: politics :unsure:

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Alright, people - CHILL!!! The Like button is just an added feature for that that WANT to use it. No one is forcing you to use it. For those of us that use Facebook, it's an added bonus. If you don't use Facebook, it's not holding you back. All it does it put a link to the cache on your profile. Just a simple little thing, but cool.

 

I don't sit here and gripe about GS partnering up with AT&T just because they developed an iPhone app. I have a Droid. It's just something that is offered that I won't take advantage of.

 

I'd like to hear what you all LIKE about the new features.

 

I don't the LIKE feature, but most of the rest I do.(even if they are not explained very well)

 

I don't like FB's privacy policy history and don't want to support them in any way. FB has shown they lack any integrity in the past regarding user privacy, The new announced changes haven't been proven yet, and what's going to stop FB from reverting to their old devious ways next month or next year (or even next week)!?

 

I'll CHILL when I have the option to have a "Like" button on my cache pages. If you want the Like button to appear pm your cache pages, great for you. I don't want it to be on mine! I'll disable any cache of mine that has that button without my opt-in approval, starting tomorrow. Then I'll drop my premium membership on the next renewal until that is fixed.

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Ironically, I just realized - in a way, people have dropped Facebook like a rock, essentially with the same sentiments which people are threatening to drop GC like a rock based on some of these updates. :unsure:

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Ironically, I just realized - in a way, people have dropped Facebook like a rock, essentially with the same sentiments which people are threatening to drop GC like a rock based on some of these updates. :unsure:

 

Both sites will survive. Facebook is hovering around half a billion people right now. I'd estimate, from the forums that maybe 100 people quit Geocaching.com over the "Like" button. I wonder how many people took up the game today ... this week ?

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Both sites will survive. Facebook is hovering around half a billion people right now. I'd estimate, from the forums that maybe 100 people quit Geocaching.com over the "Like" button. I wonder how many people took up the game today ... this week ?

 

Facebook has always been invasive, and loose on it's security from the start, yet, I admit, I use it to keep in contact with co-workers, other Geocachers, and Ren-Faire friends.

 

The thing is, Facebook, like it's predecessor, MySpace, is slowly becoming inhabited with low-lifes, who want nothing better than to extract your money, from you, with cheap or non-existent products. (Read: Spam!) It also opens the dilemma of the newbie flood.. With new cachers, you're also going to get the ones who want nothing better than to destroy your cache, and everyone else's cache. This [Like] button, now opens a doorway.. "Hey! I have a new playground to destroy for my own personal enjoyment!".. Personally, I want new players to the game, who WILL play the game, but this is just begging for more of the non-playing, destructive types to find the website, sign-up, and find new things to wreak havoc upon.

 

I have a few friends, in the ren faire community who are also Geocachers. Some were surprised, when I mentioned hitting a few caches up the road from a faire we were encamped at.

 

Facebook has its down side, where I have a co-worker who is so engrossed in video games, that he has little grasp of reality without making some form of reference to a video game. He knows about my Geocaching, but stil cannot grasp the concept, but has all these "neat and cool ideas" on how he would change it, make caches more adult oriented, include items that we already request NOT be placed, ideas where to place caches (Umm.. In our company lot? I REALLY Don't think so!) He's the ONLY person I actually have a block on, on facebook. I rest my case....

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The thing is, Facebook, like it's predecessor, MySpace, is slowly becoming inhabited with low-lifes, who want nothing better than to extract your money, from you, with cheap or non-existent products.

 

That is an interesting comment. So if I'm a low-life (but I'm not) just by logging on to Facebook I get all this money? Hmmm, maybe being a low life is not such a bad idea. Do I need a special low-life account to get this money?

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Hi!

 

I just filed a feature request to add the possibility to disable the like button in your profile for caches you own.

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Bye,

Christian

 

P.S.: Nice cartoon: Like

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