cache name censorship

[+Coldgears]

A few in my area...

 

"los bravos negro is negro"

 

GC1NRCZ

 

"WE-BE-TOYS" (The punchline to a racist joke I heard before hidden at the same spot the racist joke was played out at)

 

GC185HJ

 

A Load of Bull.....frogs

 

GC1BNT4

[+Wacka]

There was one in my area called "A Nice Long Screw". That's where the cache was. It was on a 20 ft or so long worm gear.

[+Vater_Araignee]

A few in my area...

 

"los bravos negro is negro"

 

GC1NRCZ

 

"WE-BE-TOYS" (The punchline to a racist joke I heard before hidden at the same spot the racist joke was played out at)

 

GC185HJ

 

A Load of Bull.....frogs

 

GC1BNT4

you do understand that the first one is in Spanish including the word is.No, no you don't.

It says "The brave black is black" now if the title was "los bravos un negro is un negro" then it would be offensive.

"WE-BE-TOYS", where I came from everyone called Toys-Я-Us that. Black, white and hispanic. May as well get mad at the chain for poking at dyslexics.

As for "A Load of Bull.....frogs" I cant even begin to fathom why someone would take issue with it.

Except that it should be a multi with that name and use toy bull frogs for each stage.

[+Team Cotati]

There was one in my area called "A Nice Long Screw". That's where the cache was. It was on a 20 ft or so long worm gear.

 

Was that name censored?

[4wheelin_fool]

It sucks that people get all excited over it, but for every person that thinks it's funny there is always the potential for someone else to get equally annoyed. It's not mine or anyone's call, but ultimately up to Groundspeak to take the correct position and get on top of it without being too hard on anyone.

 

How'd I know you were going to go there?

 

 

Go where, exactly?

 

Just because you are there already doesn't mean that I am.

[knowschad]

It sucks that people get all excited over it, but for every person that thinks it's funny there is always the potential for someone else to get equally annoyed. It's not mine or anyone's call, but ultimately up to Groundspeak to take the correct position and get on top of it without being too hard on anyone.

 

How'd I know you were going to go there?

 

Go where, exactly?

Just because you are there already doesn't mean that I am.

I don't know what TWU meant, but I just noticed that you said some dirty words!!

 

[+Vater_Araignee]

It sucks that people get all excited over it, but for every person that thinks it's funny there is always the potential for someone else to get equally annoyed. It's not mine or anyone's call, but ultimately up to Groundspeak to take the correct position and get on top of it without being too hard on anyone.

 

How'd I know you were going to go there?

 

Go where, exactly?

Just because you are there already doesn't mean that I am.

I don't know what TWU meant, but I just noticed that you said some dirty words!!

 

Yeah I see a lot of filth in 4wheelin's post now that you mention it. naaaaaughtyyyyyyy

[+faststepper]

What could you name a cache in Intercourse, PA. Yes the town does exist?

Just checked, there are 3 with that word in the name, should they be banned? I think not!

Edited April 9, 2010 by faststepper

[+Vater_Araignee]

What could you name a cache in Intercourse, PA. Yes the town does exist?

Just checked, there are 3 with that word in the name, should they be banned? I think not!

For that matter PA.

We use to call dudes in school a PA when adult ears where present to keep from getting sent to the office.

[+faststepper]

For those of you who are wondering, Intercourse, PA is about 6 miles SSW of Blue Ball, PA. .

Between Lancaster and Philly.

[+t4e]

hmmmmm.....LMAO...its a real city located in Austria 2.5 miles from the German border.

 

48.067222, 12.863611

 

NSFW

 

 

 

EDIT: ooh i see its in post#41 already

Edited April 10, 2010 by t4e

[+joukkusisu]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

- And that's coming from a guy who over-thought and over-sexualized a lot of things.

[+Worstseeker]

There is also a town called "Bird in Hand" close to Intercourse and Blue Ball. A multi between the three towns could have some great names!

[+Vater_Araignee]

hmmmmm.....LMAO...its a real city located in Austria 2.5 miles from the German border.

 

48.067222, 12.863611

 

NSFW

 

 

 

EDIT: ooh i see its in post#41 already

Well you have called it, U.S. citizens are prudes.

For the life of me I'll never understand why people decided that an acronym designed to be non offensive became offensive.

For

Unlawful

Carnal

Knowledge

I'll bet the person that originally yelled the loudest about how offensive it was got busted for it.

 

~~~edit to add~~~

I'll never understand why Brits take offense to crap either.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Vater_Araignee

[+Vater_Araignee]

There is also a town called "Bird in Hand" close to Intercourse and Blue Ball. A multi between the three towns could have some great names!

I just have to go and place a cache between them all and call it "strangling male chicken"

[+bittsen]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

[+narcissa]

hmmmmm.....LMAO...its a real city located in Austria 2.5 miles from the German border.

 

48.067222, 12.863611

 

NSFW

 

 

 

EDIT: ooh i see its in post#41 already

Well you have called it, U.S. citizens are prudes.

For the life of me I'll never understand why people decided that an acronym designed to be non offensive became offensive.

For

Unlawful

Carnal

Knowledge

I'll bet the person that originally yelled the loudest about how offensive it was got busted for it.

 

~~~edit to add~~~

I'll never understand why Brits take offense to crap either.

 

That's not the real origin of the word - that acronym was invented to fit the word. This word dates back to the old Germanic roots of English and has relatives in most, if not all, modern Germanic languages. At least two other notorious four-letter words date back as far.

[+Vater_Araignee]

hmmmmm.....LMAO...its a real city located in Austria 2.5 miles from the German border.

 

48.067222, 12.863611

 

NSFW

 

 

 

EDIT: ooh i see its in post#41 already

Well you have called it, U.S. citizens are prudes.

For the life of me I'll never understand why people decided that an acronym designed to be non offensive became offensive.

For

Unlawful

Carnal

Knowledge

I'll bet the person that originally yelled the loudest about how offensive it was got busted for it.

 

~~~edit to add~~~

I'll never understand why Brits take offense to crap either.

 

That's not the real origin of the word - that acronym was invented to fit the word. This word dates back to the old Germanic roots of English and has relatives in most, if not all, modern Germanic languages. At least two other notorious four-letter words date back as far.

Nicht wirklich? Fokken? - to breed.

Most people believe the acronym story to be true, so why do they find the word offensive?

Geesh, didn't think that would get called out, well at least not so quickly.

 

~~~spelling~~~

Edited April 10, 2010 by Vater_Araignee

[grub54891]

Funny how everyone respond's to a thread about names/complaining.All anyone is doing is giving the complainers more ammo to complain about more thing's.I say just let em bitch,ignore them.Let's move on to more important thing's,Ok? (I suppose I'm just as bad as the complainers for responding to this thread also)

[+narcissa]

 

Nicht wirklich? Fokken? - to breed.

Most people believe the acronym story to be true, so why do they find the word offensive?

Geesh, didn't think that would get called out, well at least not so quickly.

 

~~~spelling~~~

 

I don't think "most" people give much though at all to the etymology of swear words.

 

I'm not sure when this particular word came to be deemed offensive in English. A lot of old Anglo Saxon words got dumped in favour of French words, and there's a pretty strong tendency for the Germanic words for body parts and functions to carry vulgar connotations in modern English. See also the big S word, and perhaps the most notorious of them all, the shocking C word. All of these words pre-date English.

[hoosier guy]

"Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues."

 

So then why do those who like to indulge in jr high locker room humor do what they do?

[sdarken]

E.g., the cache named 'Desert Morning Wood' was a cache embedded in a piece of wood at the end of a street called 'Desert Morning'. 'This cache is really hung' was the name of a cache that was hung in a tree. 'Suck me dry' was a great cache, hidden in an empty hummingbird feeder in a really interesting spot.

 

Those are great cache names. I'm surprised that anyone that was so prudish that they'd complain would actually understand the alternative meaning of the wood cache and the second one isn't sexual at all unless you choose to make it a sexual reference.

[+BlueDeuce]

E.g., the cache named 'Desert Morning Wood' was a cache embedded in a piece of wood at the end of a street called 'Desert Morning'. 'This cache is really hung' was the name of a cache that was hung in a tree. 'Suck me dry' was a great cache, hidden in an empty hummingbird feeder in a really interesting spot.

 

Those are great cache names. I'm surprised that anyone that was so prudish that they'd complain would actually understand the alternative meaning of the wood cache and the second one isn't sexual at all unless you choose to make it a sexual reference.

 

The majority of adults understand sexual innuendo. It's a matter of context and location. In this case the location being a family site. Not all "wink-wink nudge-nudge" names are going to pass review, even if some people don't have an issue.

Edited April 10, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+Team Cotati]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

 

Sometimes referred to as: 'Polite Society'.

 

You must know one heckofa lot of people. And know them fairly well, you know carnally speaking.

[+BlueDeuce]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

 

Sometimes referred to as: 'Polite Society'.

 

You must know one heckofa lot of people. And know them fairly well, you know carnally speaking.

 

Put yer shirt on already.

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues.

 

I missed this post. I always enjoy seeing generalized accusations as a point of argument.

 

 

Edit: clarification

Edited April 11, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+simpjkee]

Funny how everyone respond's to a thread about names/complaining.All anyone is doing is giving the complainers more ammo to complain about more thing's.I say just let em bitch,ignore them.Let's move on to more important thing's,Ok? (I suppose I'm just as bad as the complainers for responding to this thread also)

 

It's one thing if people complain and move on. Just ignore them.

 

In this situation (according to the OP), the complaining led to the retracting or archiving of completely valid geocaches. Thats worth discussing.

 

I don't want to be in a situation where a reviewer decides to retract or archive one of my caches, because some sensitive cacher gets offended over nothing.

[knowschad]

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

- And that's coming from a guy who over-thought and over-sexualized a lot of things.

We're not even gonna begin to mention Aiken, MN, which isn't too far from the small town of Remer, MN. Have you done any caching in either of those areas yet?

[knowschad]

For the life of me I'll never understand why people decided that an acronym designed to be non offensive became offensive.

For

Unlawful

Carnal

Knowledge

Mythbusters time!!! Snopesville, here we come.

[knowschad]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

You did, and I probably agree with you. However, you forgot to add that most people that use "most people" to make a point probably have done no more research than personal opinion. Still, I think that most people would tend to agree with you.

[+FunnyNose]

What could you name a cache in Intercourse, PA. Yes the town does exist?

Just checked, there are 3 with that word in the name, should they be banned? I think not!

 

There is a cache in an interesting town in Austria

Edited April 11, 2010 by FunnyNose

[+bittsen]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

You did, and I probably agree with you. However, you forgot to add that most people that use "most people" to make a point probably have done no more research than personal opinion. Still, I think that most people would tend to agree with you.

 

Ah, but I have done the research, as informal as it were...

No, I won't post my research. I am not playing that game. I have said what I know and that's good enough for me.

 

[knowschad]

I would like to let you all in on a little secret.

 

Most people who are publicly prudish are polar opposites when not in public (wink wink, nod nod).

 

Most who complain about things not being "family friendly" are doing so because they want to cause issues. If you looked deep into their psyche you would find some of the most debaucherous thoughts imaginable and only their inhibitions prevent them from acting upon them.

 

I sure hope I was able to say that in a forum friendly manner

You did, and I probably agree with you. However, you forgot to add that most people that use "most people" to make a point probably have done no more research than personal opinion. Still, I think that most people would tend to agree with you.

 

Ah, but I have done the research, as informal as it were...

No, I won't post my research. I am not playing that game. I have said what I know and that's good enough for me.

 

Most people would say that you should state it as your personal opinion, and not use most people to support it, but most people would also consider that to be a pretty trivial complaint, so most people would let it slide.

[+bittsen]

Most people would say that you should state it as your personal opinion, and not use most people to support it, but most people would also consider that to be a pretty trivial complaint, so most people would let it slide.

 

Too bad I don't conform to your traditional, nor judjmental, standards, eh?

 

[ruthlessx]

Can you have the cache name in another language? Does it auto translate when viewing the site in English or is English just the standard?

[+simpjkee]

Can you have the cache name in another language? Does it auto translate when viewing the site in English or is English just the standard?

 

You can have a name in another language.

 

I'm not sure if there is an auto translator on the website, but it wouldn't translate cache names, descriptions, logs, etc. I would imagine that when viewing the website in a country with a different language, the site text and button and stuff would be translated, but I don't know.

[+Happy Bubbles]

Can you have the cache name in another language? Does it auto translate when viewing the site in English or is English just the standard?

 

You can have a name in another language.

 

I'm not sure if there is an auto translator on the website, but it wouldn't translate cache names, descriptions, logs, etc. I would imagine that when viewing the website in a country with a different language, the site text and button and stuff would be translated, but I don't know.

 

Nope, no auto translator, at least not for Japanese. It`s all English as far as I can see.

[+Happy Bubbles]

There's been a bit of a controversy over a nice young man's excellent and creative cache hides which have 'suggestive' albeit hilariously appropriate cache names--appropriate in the sense that they describe the way the cache is hidden.

E.g., the cache named 'Desert Morning Wood' was a cache embedded in a piece of wood at the end of a street called 'Desert Morning'. 'This cache is really hung' was the name of a cache that was hung in a tree. 'Suck me dry' was a great cache, hidden in an empty hummingbird feeder in a really interesting spot.

The caches were published, and after some local old biddy-type busybodies complained, the reviewer--who had published them--archived them, or, what really gets me, retracted the listings. (Archived caches can be logged; retracted ones cannot be logged.) I felt as tho' the reviewer second-guessing himself was telling: he didn't see anything wrong with the cache names, until someone complained. The complainers were heeded, but the defenders of free speech were not.

 

There are many examples of double entendre cache names out there; the following caches are currently published on geocaching.com:

Blown Dick by arisjunior (GC1DCMG)

Blown Down by jREST (GC1MQYY),

This Cache Has Been Blown! by HMB Lipripper (GC1V52J),

BBES #4 Blow Me Down by CachinSpree (GC1MMN2),

Blow It Out of Your (beeeeep)! by graniteman84 (GC23ZGQ),

Blow Me Away by Red Bear (GCG7KW),

Blow me down by cookie42 (GCZ3H6),

Doris doesn't Blow by markellie (GC1W378),

Sucked Dry by JDandDD (GC1R310). <---- This is almost the exact name of one of the caches retracted

It Sucks? It Blows? by LandSnoopers [Charter Member] &Cat-city cachers (GCHTK5).

 

Why is this inventive cacher being discriminated against and censored while none of the above cachers are?

 

What does the forum geocaching community think?

 

I think that censoring double-entendre cache names is ridiculous. Take the "Desert Morning Wood" example. If a child or someone else doesn`t know the racier meaning of the term "morning wood," how could they be affected in any way by the cache name? They`d just see the literal aspect of it, the piece of wood at Desert Morning road. And if someone does already know the other meaning of "morning wood," they`ll get the joke but will hardly be corrupted by it, since they`re presumably already corrupted enough to have learned it in the first place.

 

The retroactive retraction of the cache is a stupid thing to do. Couldn`t Groundspeak have asked the owner to change the cache names? Or GS could have simply archived them, leaving the cache history but taking them off the maps. Better yet, they could have foreseen this sort of situation and worked it out with the CO before publishing the cache. Or hey, best of all, they could have just told whoever complained about the cache names to grow up and deal with it!

[knowschad]

Most people would say that you should state it as your personal opinion, and not use most people to support it, but most people would also consider that to be a pretty trivial complaint, so most people would let it slide.

 

Too bad I don't conform to your traditional, nor judjmental, standards, eh?

 

Huh? All I was getting at was suggesting that when you give your opinion, that don't try to expand it into "most people's" opinion. How you managed to come up with something about my traditional or judgmental standards from that is beyond me! Anyway.... back to the topic at hand, OK?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

This is one area where I support censorship. Believe me, I am about as far from "prude" as a man can get, but I do believe that this game is and should remain one thing that I can recommend to everyone... adult or child, and not have to worry about content that would embarrass or upset anyone.

[+sbell111]

Funny how everyone respond's to a thread about names/complaining.All anyone is doing is giving the complainers more ammo to complain about more thing's.I say just let em bitch,ignore them.Let's move on to more important thing's,Ok? (I suppose I'm just as bad as the complainers for responding to this thread also)

 

It's one thing if people complain and move on. Just ignore them.

 

In this situation (according to the OP), the complaining led to the retracting or archiving of completely valid geocaches. Thats worth discussing.

 

I don't want to be in a situation where a reviewer decides to retract or archive one of my caches, because some sensitive cacher gets offended over nothing.

The caches in question stepped over the 'family friendly' line and got yanked. If you don't wish to have yours be similarly yanked, ensure that you do not approach the line.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

I'm not sure when this particular word came to be deemed offensive in English. A lot of old Anglo Saxon words got dumped in favour of French words, and there's a pretty strong tendency for the Germanic words for body parts and functions to carry vulgar connotations in modern English.

 

You nailed it. (Apologies if that sounds "dirty.")

 

Not only do the old Anglo-Saxon names for body parts sound vulgar compared to the more refined French and Latin versions, but it's the same way for FOOD, of all things. The animals keep their Anglo-Saxon peasant names, but the food produced from them is named by the Norman conquerors. That's why we eat "beef" and not "cow." Or "pork" instead of "pig."

[+Borst68]

I think a certain amount of maturity could be used when placing caches and naming them. I see that level of maturity lacking sometimes and even find it lacking with myself from time to time. (I have one called Westward HO)

 

Having said that, the lack of maturity really presents itself when someone pulls their cache because they aren't allowed to use a suggestive name that could be offensive and likely was meant to be.

 

This is GS's playground and if people can't or won't play by their rules they should leave. And leaving in a huff is telling of the cache owner and not indicative of the populace playing the game.

 

This.

 

While there is virtually no phrase in the English language that can't be corrupted into meaning something perverse, GS should (and IMO does) keep things family friendly.

[+Snoogans]

This is one area where I support censorship. Believe me, I am about as far from "prude" as a man can get, but I do believe that this game is and should remain one thing that I can recommend to everyone... adult or child, and not have to worry about content that would embarrass or upset anyone.

Ed, me and you disagree here my friend.

 

Sheltering is for parents to do to their children.

 

This activity was mainly created and is mainly used by adults that for the most part have a broad sense of humor yourself included. I think this thread pretty much illustrates that.

 

I'm not going to shelter my son from a cache that has a double meaning or is outright considered potty language by some people. They're words and it's my responsibility to ensure my child has an understanding or is oblivious as the case may be.

 

My next cache is going to be titled Sofa King Low in honor of this thread. There's a hole I want to put a cache in that you'll need a tool to get it out. Get it?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Snoogans

[+Travisty505]

Hello, my name is Travis, I am the actual guy suz55tbird started this forum discussion on. First off i would like to thank her for all of her support and kind attitude towards me since the very beginning. I would also like to thank everyone who is contributing to the discussion, both sides and opinions. I believe strongly in discussion, as well as actually taking time to understand and consider your opponents views, because this is the only way to truly maintain a democratic and civil society. When this simple process breaks down, we begin to fall into a fascist system, and no one wants a system that supports oppression, discrimination, and the destruction of freedom (like CENSORSHIP). I was going to stay completely out of this conversation and just observe, but since there was actual discussion taking place i figured i would ask a few questions. Last time i asked this questions, they went unanswered, mainly because the opposing party did not possess the mental capacity to understand or form a rebuttal to the posed ideas. I'm hoping that's not the case with this group.

 

The following is my first post from a similar forum we had in New Mexico. If you'd like to see that discussion (which is pretty amusing) you can go to http://nmgeocaching.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1283 . I'm sorry to anyone that wishes to add their views to that site. Unfortunately, the private owner of the site couldn't handle the heat of discussion, so she erased several postings and locked on the forum (the first and only time that's ever been done.). Anyways, hopefully this post will help take this discussion to a higher level of philosophy on the manner.

 

Travisty505-NMgeocaching.com forum:

Hello. My name is Travis, yes Mr. Travisty505 himself. The corrupter of the youth, the one and only cause for moral decay, the destroyer of family values, the guy who should be hung up by his shoe laces and stoned to death with those fake plastic decoy rocks you can buy from the geo website. Now before I begin my rebuttal to this forum I want to state a few things first. I have read all of your comments and taken them into consideration, I can only hope you do the same. I’m not just writing this for my own peace of mind, but with the intention of hopefully stimulating public as well as personal/inner discussions of the true subject at hand. If both sides remain close minded and stubborn, no true benefit will come from the conflict, whether that is physical or mental change. So please read this, and truly stop to think about the subject fully, before you jump on the bandwagon and continue to live in a delusion manifested by personal hypocrisy. Also as a warning, I am at times sarcastic, but the purpose is not to insult or offend others, but merely to expose the truth before your eyes in a playful manor. Now let’s get to the subject at hand.

The general conclusion seems to be, my cache names are inappropriate for this family activity. Many have stated that the names are X-rated, and should be removed to prevent the pure eyes of children from being corrupted. This is a valid concern. Now let us examine the premise to the conclusion, and determine if it is in fact logical.

You have stated Geocaching is a family activity. I will agree with the statement, the demographic for the hobby ranges so widely it should be assumed so. You have stated my names are X/Adult rated. I could see how one could find a double meaning in the titles, and therefore claim the titles are of an inappropriate nature, but the question at hand is are the names actually x-rated. I’m sorry ladies and gentlemen, but the answer is NO. You can scream and argue as much as you’d like, but the truth is the names themselves are not X-rated. Now what you might be trying to claim is that the names could be suggestive of adult material. This would be a more logical argument. But even in this instance, the true meaning, or suggested meaning of my cache names is disputable. The English language is full of words whose definitions have multiple meanings, and to assume the definition is only one of the multiple is just ignorant. So in reality, even though you take offense, the names and implied meanings are truly just as clean as they are dirty. Meaning, you assumptions that the titles are dirty only have a 50% chance of being right. In all honesty they could be innocent titles that you in fact made dirty yourself. Let me put an example forth. Let’s say you went to a local art museum and came across a Georgia O'Keeffe painting (seems appropriate since most of her subject matter was nature and southwest related). After gazing over the painting of the flower you create an interpretation that the flower is actually trying to portray something of an x-rated theme (perhaps female genitals), and you become disgusted. Someone else in the room looking at the same painting may just analyze the painting as being the recreation of a beautiful flower. So now how are we to say that one of these people is right and one is wrong? More importantly, is it right to destroy the painting, so it can’t be enjoyed by any others, just because one (or in this case a few) individual(s) finds (interprets) the subject matter is not family appropriate? Because that is the real situation at hand. My geocaches title ARE NOT x-rated, your interpretations of them are. This leads us to your next question and point..

“Are these geocaches appropriate for kids to be seeing?” In reality, Yes! They are worded in such a manner that they are not offensive or vulgar. Now again, back to my point about interpretation. You may interpret these titles as being inappropriate, so therefore you don’t believe children should be exposed to them. But the fact of the matter is your interpretations are going to be quite different from a child’s. I hate to say it, but in a way my cache titles are mirrors, in the sense that they reflect the reader’s mentality back at them. The cache title, and one’s interpretation of it, is only as dirty as the individual them self. So while your mind is sick, warped, and twisted with x-rated innuendos, and sees a double meaning in words and phrases; a child’s (hopefully) is much more simple and pure and will interpret the title for exactly what it is. They will not find the title to be offensive or imply anything dirty at all. That leads me to another major point. So far my argument about double meanings and individual interpretations would be flawed, making you the geo-FCC correct on the matter, if my cache’s names were just that, names. If I was just labeling normal caches with dirty names, you would have a strong case against me, and you could dismiss the double-meaning/ interpretation argument, but unfortunately for you, that’s not the case. The names of my caches are actually just simple, clear, descriptions and clues about the hidden caches themselves. I’d like to ask you all a very important question, before throwing this giant uproar, did any of you (to my knowledge only tealeaf has) actually find any of my caches? If the answer is no, you might want to go do a little research before you start making such a big commotion. (I did my research on all of you before I started this little post, but I’ll get to that good stuff in a while). If you actually go find one of my caches you’ll discover the cache is exactly what the title says it is, or the title is an appropriate hint for the cache. For example, I have a cache title desert morning wood. Ohh no, he’s so dirty. Hey guess what, the cache is at the end of a street called desert morning and the cache is lodged in a piece of wood. “Wow, you mean it wasn’t an ammo case out in the middle of a playground covered in gay porn”. Shocker. So when children read the titles and find the cache, they get exactly what they were expecting. So you see, in reality my caches aren’t dirty, the only thing that’s dirty is your interpretations. Again If these were just web log titles, you would be ½ right, but in the physical cache world, you’re wrong. Sorry. So if the cache titles aren’t really dirty (just one’s analysis is) and the physical cache itself is harmless, and the only real thing X-rated are YOUR minds, then maybe we all really shouldn’t be worried about kids coming across my posts, instead maybe we should actually be worried about them being around you! Utt-oh, was that a little to hostel? Anyways, so the premises that my titles are inappropriate for kids is flawed and wrong.

So the last claim and premises, is that my supposed dirty cache titles are demoralizing the whole sport. Yes, I alone am corrupting the geo world, and will single handedly tear it down. Quite the claim. It’s funny because I never even directly used an offensive or inappropriate word, but I’m a bad man. Yet no one caught the irony of Zunni kid dropping the word “crap” right in-between his two family morals sentences. So since everyone is hooked on finding the double meanings in my titles, it’s time to turn tables and use the same looking glass on you. Have you never really seen a cache title that could serve as a double, and yes “dirty” double, meaning? The titles are not only scattered throughout the site, but they lie within your own trophy numbers. Kohavis let’s look at some of the titles present on your profile and you tell me that they don’t possess words any less x-rated than my own. (Their true meanings, or your evaluation of such, don’t matter, because if they appear offensive then they must actually be such right? That’s why I’m under fire). Titles include: “Flight of FANTASY”, “Seed-uctive” (wow, that’s not x-rated?), “Bronco’s Bosque BEAVER chew” (do you know what the term beaver often refers to?), “Rock & Roll Hoochie Too” (a hoochie…. And that was put out by a well known FAMILY). Don’t worry kohavis, you’re not alone. On bighornram’s profile you can find these cache titles “Woody, woody, woody” (I don’t really have to point out what that might be implying), “ahh, love a garden” (love… that’s a term for intercourse… and with dirt and plants… eww. Yeah, this interpreting thing is really fun.) Bighorn hid some caches with questionable titles too…: “Cap * Rock Hotel” (what is that a gunshot and a reference to a hotel which often is stached with crack cocaine rocks?) “On top where the wind blows” (hey now, the wind is doing what where?) “Low & High” (what does this one mean, I’m going to say it means the cache is depressed and therefore is on some kind of illegal drug, like marijuana.) Zuni kid hid some like that too: “hi N Dry” (do we always have to make reference about how you are under the influence of drugs..) “Drill pad view” (I’ve heard a few meanings for drilling…) “bear scat” (wow, I guess the reviewers really are missing such “crap” as you would put it yourself. Ha that was a joke, calm down) and you sir have found caches with titles like “You’ve been NAUGHTY!” (You tell me that’s not an actual x-rated title), “I’m buzzed” (sounds like a reference to alcoholic intoxication), “Vertical driftwood” (hey, I didn’t put that one out…) and “behind door” (I’m sure you know what that is a reference to”.

So there you have it. There are a few of my interpretations of your caches. How does it feel being on the other side? Regardless of whose titles had an intentional double meaning; it doesn’t change the fact that they are just composed of simple, common language and subject to different evaluation. I hope that opens your eyes to the fact that anything can be interpreted as something r/x rated, or as having a double meaning. Again, whether one makes the titles that way intentionally doesn’t segregate them from others just like it. If you want to make me your scapegoat for the demoralization of this country’s values that’s fine, I could care less, but that doesn’t give you the right to try to take action against me in a prejudice manor. There are thousands of caches out there just like mine, and unless you have the intention of erasing all of them, don’t come after me. Even if you feel you are doing your little part and cleaning up the community just a bit, where do you really draw the line? How do you determine if your interpretation is right? Like I have demonstrated you can put tons of titles under the gun, when in reality they are harmless in nature.

I want to turn the spotlight from me to my accuser once more. Kohavis, in your blogs you seem so concerned with the mental upbringing and well being of the children, yet upon a short investigation one would quickly come to the conclusion that you are a hypocrite. You make a huge deal out of my cache titles, while at the same time display a lot of inappropriate content on your own profile. That’s right Kohavis supporters, take a look:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid ... 5417acf458

First off you have a picture of a group flipping off the camera. I thought we were supposed to keep this site G-rated there, “my friend”. I can tell you one thing, if we were to broadcast our profiles over TV, not one of my cache names would be censored, but that picture on your page would be completely blurred out. Next, below that we have a video loop with the caption “My first skirt lifter”. I don’t even know the clean double-meaning for that term. Finally, you claim we need make everything so wholesome for the kiddies, and I’m being such a horrible influence on their mental development. I sir actually find you to be a negative influence/role model for the youth. You opening talk about how your profession was working on and creating weapon systems and missiles. Awesome, the development for mass murder, way to stick to those high morals. I’d rather my kids know a few dirty meanings then grow up to contribute directly to the destruction of society and the human race. So now’s its come full circle, the accuser is now the accused. Before you point your hypocritical fingers, maybe you should look in a mirror first and ask yourself if the one you are scapegoating is really that different from yourself and everyone around you.

You started this conversation as a means to discuss the appropriateness of my titles, and hopefully I’ve taken to something more than that. I am still willing to discuss the matter further. I’d be surprised if any of you actually read (and better yet contemplated) everything I wrote, instead of just sticking to ignorance and bypassing any means of discussion. I will remain open-minded and susceptible to the possibility of change, as long as everyone else, discussing the matter, is. So in conclusion, I will again point out that because of the major flaws in your premises your overall, mass conclusion that my titles should be altered or removed (do to your own interpretations) is not logical. Like I said please feel free to add to the discussion now that both sides have been presented, and help us all get closer and travel the right path, toward absolute truth and justice. Thank you.

Travisty505

 

The main questions i would like answered are these:

1. If you support censorship, where do you draw the line? How do you determine which caches are X-rated and which are PG (ecspecailly when they may include the same language?

2. (if you answer to the above question is cacher perception and placer intent), how do you really determine those? Secondly, how would a cacher be able to distinguish between intent? I posed the same question in the NMforum...

 

"You were talking about perception, which i'm not going to discredit in any way, it's a valid argument. I just have to pose another question (oh god, here he goes with that gosh darn philosophy stuff again). You made the point about how you thought i was intentionally trying to stir up offense in others. I've already denied that, and hopefully exposed my true intent. Reguardless though, lets say i was trying to the geo community a bit. The question i pose is does this underlieing intent make any true difference to perception of the caches themselves. Let me elaborate. Let's say tommrow you and i both come up with the exact same cache (greate minds think alike right ). Not only do we have the same physcial cache but we both name it the same thing. For the purpose of example lets say we make a submersible cache that we hide in a small body of water and we both call this cache, "I'm really wet". Now both caches are the same physically and verbally, so to a child or even easily offended adult, think they are identical. You labeled the hide with the context of "I'm a cache and i'm submerged in water". Now maybe i hide the cache with an adult innuendo implying that the cache is possibly female and aroused. Two drastically different intents indeed, but how does this effect the perception. This has been my main argument from the beginning. Would this forum community allow you to post your cache, but censor mine? These seems very unjust indeed. So does, and can, intent really manifest itself physically, to a point at which it can be judged? If we both post these caches tomorrow will the geocache site magically highlight my title in red (for X adult rated) and yours in blue (for G rated) so the community can distinguish? No. So in reality perception (except for your example of my profile info) will not manifest itself physically and therefore can not be detected. So therefore my cache titles really can't be the victims of censorship, unless like stated, the proper amount of discretion isn't used. But ask anyone and everyone who has found my caches, you really can't come to the conclusion, once found, that these caches are dirty in nature. "

 

3. Are you willing to have the casualty of freedom, due to cenorship, of innocent caches in order to eliminate the "bad" ones? That kind of takes on the horrible technique some parents have where one kid did something wrong, but they will spank all of the kids to "make sure they get the right one". Seems this mentality often leads to more destruction than good. (oh yes, and i know someone will replay saying it's my fault i corrupted the game and therefore are leading to the elimination of innocent caches. Well if you can successfully form a rebuttal to the rest of my questions, i will gladly form an argument to this statement. )

 

4. (i think someone already touched on this earlier in the forum, but again no one could find anything to reply with) If kids, who we are most concerned about on this subject, don't understand a double meaning, then there is no harm done. If they do understand it, their minds have already been previously corrupted, so trying to protect them is a pointless action at this point. So what is the true reason for censoring these kinds of names?

 

5. Why are you such horrible parents that you have to have a website (like this one) parent for you? Do you just let your kids take a GPS and hit the streets? And if not, why wouldn't you just avoid a cache if you deemed it inappropriate.

 

Thank you for everyones time, consideration, and input. I hope a deeper debate of the issue can now develop.

 

Sincerely,

Travisty505

[+Travisty505]

*WARNING INCLUDES SPOILERS**

 

To help clarify the situation, here are some of my old caches and their descriptions.

 

1. "That's right ladies this cache is hung " now "I've been told this cache is hung"(Bison tube hung in a tree)

 

2. "The big one eyed monster" now "The big, red, one eyed monster AKA KILOWISI" (micro hidden on public art which is in the shape of a big, one eyed monster... who would have guessed)

 

3. "Don't play with the monkey" now "The 800-pound gorilla" (cache hidden in public art which is a giant monkey made out of old tires)

 

4. "I'm getting so wet" (micro hidden inside a fake sprinkler in a park)

 

5. "Sorry....that's never happened to me before" (sorry if from me, the other is what you'll say... cache is actually a fake jumping snake prank)

 

6. "They sucked me dry" (cache is hidden in an empty humming bird feeder, which appears to be sucked dry from the birds, but is actually empty to keep the cache dry.)

 

7. "To swallow, or not to swallow?" now "Are you going to swallow" (not yet approved) (micro cache hidden on a fire hydrant, which is on a street named Swallow. I ask a very simple question, are you going there, and if so you should pick up this cache"

 

8. "The Dirty Sanchez Cache" (Cache was an altoids box, covered in special dirt paint, hidden in the dirt at the end of Sanchez Rd.)

 

9. "I work best when blown" (cache hidden on a piece of art that is a giant windmill)

 

10. "Desert Morning Wood" (micro cache hidden in a piece of wood at the end of Desert Morning Rd.)

 

In reguard to _____ "Sofa King Low" cache..

LOL, that's beautiful.

I do have to say, that when the subject came up i had to poke fun at the community a bit, so i made a whole series of caches, similar in nature. If you are ever in New Mexico look them up.

 

**WARNING INCLUDES SPOILERS**

 

"This cache is where your minds are..." GC215z8 (cache is in a gutter)

"And you thought my old caches were dirty" GC215ZA (cache is covered in dirt)

"A cleaner cache from Travisty505" GC21BNQ (cache hidden at a car wash vaccume)

"My cache that has everyone all bent out of shape" GC213V) (cache hidden on art of bent wire figures)

"I can't bear another one of Travisty505's titles" GC213VD (cache hidden on bear statue)

"Who's jumping on the anti-Travisty505 bandwagon"GC21BP9 (cache hidden inside an old covered wagon)

"They say i took it to far..." GC215Q2 (took this cache 20 miles outside of city limits)

"This cache will definitely have you seeing red" GC215KK (red micro, *****, hidden at a solid red location)

"You've blown this way out of proportion" GC215NB (hidden next to a 20 ft tall candy cane)

"The Not-E Cache" GC21ADK (micro hidden in a sign at a closed down strip club, cache is hidden in one of the letters of the building's sign, but not in the "e")

"It looks like we have a little censor-ship here" GC21526 (cache container is a little boat w/ censor writing)

Edited April 12, 2010 by Travisty505

[hoosier guy]

"Last time i asked this questions, they went unanswered, mainly because the opposing party did not possess the mental capacity to understand or form a rebuttal to the posed ideas."

 

I stopped reading after this line. This fellow isn't looking for intelligent discussion, just looking to rant. I can't contribute to that.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Hi Travis, welcome to the forum!

 

If you are truly sincere in trying to find out how your "opponents" feel, you might want to reconsider the language that you use to ask the questions. You use emotionally loaded words in asking the question, so you are likely to get emotionally loaded answers.

 

But I only want to address this bit:

 

I believe strongly in discussion, as well as actually taking time to understand and consider your opponents views, because this is the only way to truly maintain a democratic and civil society. When this simple process breaks down, we begin to fall into a fascist system, and no one wants a system that supports oppression, discrimination, and the destruction of freedom (like CENSORSHIP).

 

You may not have noticed, but Groundspeak is not a democracy. You want to play their game, you have to play by their rules. You don't get a vote. You can only "vote with your feet" by choosing not to play their game, or buy their products.

 

By stating your case as "I'm democratic and civil," but then calling your opponents fascists who support oppression, discrimination, and the destruction of freedom... well, you are really quite full of yourself, aren't you?

 

Then you call your opponents "horrible parents." And you think you are engaging in constructive dialogue?

 

Many people commented in this thread that they thought your cache names were juvenile, and they showed a lack of maturity. Your message here only reinforces that impression.

[+Travisty505]

"Last time i asked this questions, they went unanswered, mainly because the opposing party did not possess the mental capacity to understand or form a rebuttal to the posed ideas."

 

I stopped reading after this line. This fellow isn't looking for intelligent discussion, just looking to rant. I can't contribute to that.

 

Why don't you go to the link and read the forum. I would love in intelligent discussion. Length doesn't equal a rant, and usually ranters don't ask and thank individuals for a discussion, or ask questions...

[+Castle Mischief]

Length doesn't equal a rant, and usually ranters don't ask and thank individuals for a discussion, or ask questions...

 

Would you prefer screed? Diatribe?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I guess I will give it one last go...

 

My take on cache names is the same as on forum posts.

 

If you wouldn't say it to your daughter, grandmother, preacher or boss then don't say it in a cache title or forum post.

 

If you would submit a report to your boss describing a decrease in sales entitled 'Sales Are Sofa King Slow' or tell your preacher that you thought his sermon was Sofa King wonderful then I suppose naming a cache Sofa King would make sense to you... but I bet you wouldn't!