People are to shy to post a "didn't find"

[Olifant2]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

[+HookwayFamily]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

 

I dont tend to log a DNF until I feel I have searched adequately. Some searches have been called off due to weather, other commitments or perhaps inappropriate footwear. I will return usually within a week or two for another thorough look. If I still dont find it, then Ill log a DNF.

[+AcadianCacheSpy]

Absolutely. This way, if an owner sees many didn't finds in a row, he/she can more than likely conclude that the cache has gone missing and they can head out to replace it. It is too bad that your cache has probably been missing for two months now. I for one never shy away from loging a didn't find. It just makes me hungrier to find the cache when the next cacher after me logs a find.

[+HookwayFamily]

Double post...

Edited April 5, 2010 by HookwayFamily

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

We'll agree that many do not post a DNF when they probably should.

 

Recent discussions have revealed a wide range of reasons why they do not. Those reasons are as numerous as the digits to the right of the decimal in PI. Some valid, some not (in our opinion).

 

Quite a few actually believe that a DNF reflects negatively upon them, and that perhaps is the biggest reason many do not post it. Some feel that a DNF posting is a needless waste (for whatever reason) and along those lines prefer (if they post at all) to post a "note" instead.

 

Too, some (so we have read about) have had their DNF deleted by CO's, apparently the CO feeling that such a post reflects negatively on his/her cache. Hence, they then feel hesitant to post any DNF at all!

 

There are a lot of geocachers out there, a lot of differing opinions on the subject.

 

Bottom line -- Grin & bear it.

[Mr.Yuck]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

 

Would it be preferable? If they are members of the online logging community, and log all the caches they find as found on the website, it certainly would be nice. But it will never happen.

 

I don't think people are the least bit "shy" about it, they just don't do it. I have a difficult multi on my watchlist, that I've still never found, where a recent finder talked about getting help from the cache owner, and missing the first leg "time and time again". Never logged a single DNF. Then quite recently in a regional forum, someone started a thread about a difficult cache asking if anyone wanted to team up for it. The thread starter had never logged a DNF on the page, despite being there several times.

[+BigFurryMonster]

Same thing happening over here. Instead of logging a DNF, cachers email me with "I was at this-and-that coordinate and could not find the cache. Was I right?".

Not exactly sure why.

[+Wills4th]

What would be the proper way to log a find after posting a DNF entry?

 

1. Post a new "Found-It" log?

2. Edit the original log by changing the category to FOUND-IT and adding to your entry about the find?

 

I like the latter method because it indicates the effort required to find the cache.

 

Opinions?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

What would be the proper way to log a find after posting a DNF entry?

 

1. Post a new "Found-It" log?

2. Edit the original log by changing the category to FOUND-IT and adding to your entry about the find?

 

I like the latter method because it indicates the effort required to find the cache.

 

Opinions?

 

A new "found it" log.

The original DNF stands as cache history.

[+L0ne.R]

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

 

Sure, it would be preferable if people posted DNFs when they suspect a box is missing. It helps the owner and the future finders.

 

I think the key here is how do you make DNF postings more palatable to those who are hesitant about using them? For me, as a CO, all I want to know is....do you think my cache may be missing. I don't care if the cacher posts a DNF or posts a note or emails me. Whatever floats their boat, just as long as I'm made aware that my cache may be missing. I would never admonish a cache finder for posting a note instead of a DNF, or emailing me instead of posting a DNF or note. I want to encourage them to use whatever method they feel comfortable with because the bottom line is....do you think the cache is missing?

Edited April 5, 2010 by Lone R

[+L0ne.R]

Same thing happening over here. Instead of logging a DNF, cachers email me with "I was at this-and-that coordinate and could not find the cache. Was I right?".

Not exactly sure why.

 

They may the type of cachers that feel the DNF should be used when they think the cache could be missing. In this case, they think the cache is there and want a nudge in the right direction. Why as a CO do you desire to see a DNF posted on your cache, if in fact the cache is there?

[+briansnat]

What would be the proper way to log a find after posting a DNF entry?

 

1. Post a new "Found-It" log?

2. Edit the original log by changing the category to FOUND-IT and adding to your entry about the find?

 

I like the latter method because it indicates the effort required to find the cache.

 

Opinions?

 

1. Post a new found it. The logs are all a part of the history of the cache. If you delete or edit DNF logs that might give people an unrealistic expectation of the ease of finding the cache. If I don't see any DNFs I'll assume the cache is an easy one and if I don't find it right away, I'll give up easily thinking it is probably gone. If I see DNFs sprinkled among the logs I'll know it's not a slam dunk easy find and put in additional effort.

 

Also as a cache owner I'll page through my cache logs from time to time and might adjust my difficulty ratings based on the presence or lack of DNFs.

 

Finally, cache owners don't receive notification of edited logs. Say your DNF caused the owner to decide to check on his cache. Before he could get there you went back, found it and changed your log to a find. The owner won't see the notification of a find and may make an unneeded trip to check on his cache.

[+lil_cav_wings]

I can see where logging a DNF might make someone feel like they might not be part of the cool "I found it" crowd, and it can be a little embarrassing when everyone else finds it and you don't. I think part of it is that no one wants to be the first to log a DNF and look bad when someone else finds it right behind them.

 

It seems like, once you get past that initial DNF-hump, people start logging them.

[Shrekito]

When I come across a DNF I always post it to the cache page. Like someone said a few posts up. By logging a DNF it lets the cache owner know that multiple people have been looking for it. Take Saturday for instance I when to an area that had two caches aprox. 1/2 mile apart placed by the same person. I found the first one right away. When I got to the second one I searched for about twenty minutes then left. When I got home I posted a DNF and the area I was looking in. About fifthteen minutes later I recieved an e-mail from the cache owner telling me that I was searching in the wrong area. His e-mail helped alot I am going to go back next week and try it again.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Shrekito

[+BulldogBlitz]

i've seen a few different ways through the DNFs....

 

one, the cacher who is unable to find the cache won't log it so as to keep their cache history clean (possibly).

 

two, the cacher doesn't log it as unable to find (as is my case sometimes) because they didn't spend enough time looking for the cache to really qualify as DNF - i know i have pulled up thinking i am going to get a park and grab and get an aborted run because of muggles.

 

three, cacher doesn't log it so as to not mess with the log history of what is obviously a cache that is still there. i will check the logs on a cache before going out and if i see too many DNFs... i likely won't even bother. sometimes those fake "founds" fool me since i don't bother to read every last one.

[+wimseyguy]

How very gentle of you to call it "shy".

 

Lots of reasons why people don't post DNF's but I think ego is the #1 reason as too many of us equate a DNF with failure. It isn't, merely a reporting of the factual history of the cache and cacher.

[+wolfslady]

I think a better question would be when a cache that is being found on a regular basis suddenly stops getting any logs at all shouldn’t a cache owner go and check on it?

 

I once logged a DNF on a cache that was supposed to be easy but stated that I didn’t get to look as well as I’d have liked to. I went back and searched more carefully for much longer. I can’t remember if I logged a second DNF or just sent a message to the owner that I had returned. I book marked the cache waiting to see if anyone else found it and where I had gone wrong. 2 months after my first DNF I remembered it and checked to see that it still hadn’t been logged again. So I sent the owner a note telling them that I would like to attempt it again and would like to know if it was still there first. I pointed out that it had gone from at least 1 or 2 logs a week to none in 2 months. I was told; I don’t check a cache until I get DNF logs from 3 different people. It took another month before someone else posted one and hopefully for all the other people who might search the next person will do it more quickly if they don’t find it. Oh I should add that a few weeks before my DNF that cache was muggled and the contents were reported as being scattered.

 

I do feel that anytime you feel you have made a good search you should log a DNF. Not only for the cache owners benefit, but for the benefit of those who will be searching after you. Some people seem to under rate their caches (a few seem to overrate them) and DNF’s between the finds might warn a person that the 2 ½ stars for ease and 3 stars for terrain might look like a limb you might have to climb up a tree to retrieve it. Of course it might also be gone and a few people might be taking advantage of that by logging bogus finds. To me it would be rude to not log a DNF if you searched well enough that there was even a chance that the cache was missing. After a long search for one that wasn’t there I learned to at least look for recent finds in the logs and to use the DNF’s as a warning that the cache might not be there before I waste my time searching. Even worse if yoyu are almost certain it’s not there. In that case not logging it is like sending someone on a wild goose chase, if it turns out it wasn’t actually there.

 

Other times the cache might have been moved or someone might have buried one that was supposed to be in a very specific spot where the owner told you exactly where to sit and where to reach. In that case the cache owner was out within 12 hours I think, and after finding the cache had been moved put it back and reported it on the page. It was a busy spot and we discovered another cacher who searched with us and I believe a 3rd one reported a DNF the same day. IMO that owner was a wonderful example of how a person should do it. They managed to hide a coin hotel where most people would have settled for just a log and they cared enough to check on it.

 

If I searched and felt like I’d just missed it, than I went to the cache page and saw someone else had found it after I was there I might or might not log it. If it would be a second DNF it’s likely that I wouldn’t given that it’s clear that I just missed it again. Or I might if I decided to read the back logs and discovered that the reason that I missed it was that it was hidden in a way that seemed like it should have been rated higher. Like in a hole completely covered with pine straw.

 

In my opinion a DNF is nothing to be ashamed of, but I don’t want to bog a cache a page down with unneeded ones. Meaning more than 1 by me if others are logging anything. One for the ones I drove past but decided for whatever reason not to try that day. (too many muggles, raining, it was clearly a LPC and too boring, my GPS was bouncing around and wouldn’t even get me close…) Or the one where I got out and headed for the cache only to discover that (as warned that it might be in the description) it was too muddy for the shoes I was wearing that day. Other times I might look at the area and give it a half hearted search knowing that I need to come back at a better time (Like during the day) and I won't log anything because I don't want others to shy away from the cache thinking it's not there.

 

I also don’t think it’s cool for anyone to delete a DNF log on a cache. I’m amazed it’s even allowed.

Edited April 5, 2010 by wolfslady

[+Casting Crowns]

Yes....most people I have spoken with don't want the DNF....they'll go through every "lifeline" they can call before posting one....if at all. I will try a lifeline first but I will post a DNF because I want to alert the owner that there COULD be a problem with the cache missing. I am first to admit my geep may be off and not their coords or that I just overlooked a great hide.

[GrandmaFunion42]

I am still new to this but if I don't find a cache, I post a DNF log. I figure it is helpful in determining if a cache has gone missing. Particularly if there are a number of DNF logs in a row. Also if someone has gone to the trouble of really hiding a cache I think they might get some satisfaction from the occasional DNF.

[+pamlicojack]

I usually log a DNF only after my second try and I've all but exhausted my options. If I go back and find it I usually keep the DNF and post that I've avenged it...

[+bittsen]

I have an odd DNF routine.

 

If I don't appreciate the CO's type of hides, no DNF.

If I think it's helpful to a cacher or a CO (except for the first example) then I log a DNF

If I look and don't find, DNF

If I don't give a real look, no DNF

 

My DNFs are to help the cache owner and the cache seekers. If you hide a cache that is designed to get lots of DNFs then I won't give you the pleasure of knowing you skunked me. If you hide microspew, then I don't bother DNF.

[+L0ne.R]

I think a better question would be when a cache that is being found on a regular basis suddenly stops getting any logs at all shouldn’t a cache owner go and check on it?

 

Yes, I agree. If there's an unusual lag of activity at a cache it could be a sign that the cache is missing. Checking on the cache could be prudent.

 

Waiting for 3 DNFs from 3 separate cachers, even if it takes months, doesn't show much concern for finders wasted time. And if the CO insists it has to be a DNF (not a note, not an email) or they won't get off their butt to have a look, then there's even less respect for the finder. What I'm hearing is a CO that doesn't want to waste their own time checking on their cache, but is willing to waste the time of finders.

[+brslk]

I post a DNF on all the caches I DNF.

Unless I forget.

 

It might be a regional thing but in my location there doesn't seem to be many or any people that have hides just to see how many DNF's they can get on it.

 

I am sure people do it but, I haven't encountered it yet.

 

And, honestly.. if they rate the difficulty level high enough because it is a NIH then I have no problem with it. But if they rate it a 1.5 when it is a nano hidden in a pine tree disguised as a pine cone... well...that's different.

[+paleolith]

I don't want to see your stinkin' DNF notifications, and it's far too much trouble to log them myself. Not only that, but this forum is clogged up with talk about logging DNFs. Furthermore, the acronym is DID Not Find and yet the email notification that goes out says COULD Not Find, so no matter what you say it really is an insult to my ability and character and other kinds of prowess. GS should just get rid of the DNF log type and save all of us a lot of trouble.

 

(There. Too much unanimity in this thread. That'll never do in the GS forums! Needed to restore some balance.)

 

Edward

[+bittsen]

I don't want to see your stinkin' DNF notifications, and it's far too much trouble to log them myself. Not only that, but this forum is clogged up with talk about logging DNFs. Furthermore, the acronym is DID Not Find and yet the email notification that goes out says COULD Not Find, so no matter what you say it really is an insult to my ability and character and other kinds of prowess. GS should just get rid of the DNF log type and save all of us a lot of trouble.

 

(There. Too much unanimity in this thread. That'll never do in the GS forums! Needed to restore some balance.)

 

Edward

 

You make a valid point. Why log a "did not find" when the GS script will twist it to say "could not find".

 

I COULD find it but I quit looking.

 

No more DNF logs from me until this is fixed!!

[+popokiiti]

I'll post a DNF - if I think it is me/us being dense, I will say so. If we are part of a run of DNFs, then maybe the cache is MIA, either way, they go on our watch lists.

[+briansnat]

I am still new to this but if I don't find a cache, I post a DNF log. I figure it is helpful in determining if a cache has gone missing. Particularly if there are a number of DNF logs in a row. Also if someone has gone to the trouble of really hiding a cache I think they might get some satisfaction from the occasional DNF.

 

Some COs may get satisfaction from DNFs. I see them as a failure on my part. I place caches with the intent that they will be found. I see a DNF as a failure on my part. Did I make the hide too hard? Was my clue not specific enough? Whatever, I want to know.

 

There are some cache owners who hide caches with the intent of fooling their fellow geocachers and I'm sure DNF logs thrill them.

 

In either case the feedback to the CO is important.

[+Vater_Araignee]

Today I did a small run.

I logged a note on one because in 05 the original CO miss listed it as a traditional instead of an unknown.

It is a projection puzzle that I would not have had in my PQ, had it been correctly listed.

 

There is a cache I called a DNF on at about 350' to GZ.

As far as I'm concerned, I was actively seeking the cache when I got distracted by the terrain I was trekking through.

I paused trying to reconcile the issues I was seeing and before I knew it it was to late to continue without the proper equipment.

Now here is the kicker. If it had been any other CO's cache, I would have posted a note, but I wanted this cache so bad I could taste it till I was distracted and when I was back in cache mode I could taste it again and hated having to give up.

In my opinion, if you hate giving up on a cache you are trekking to no matter the distance, a DNF can be a point of pride.

[+wildflower60]

I'm willing to post a DNF but before I do, I will have looked for the cache several times. Sometimes I'll contact the cache owner and tell them exactly where I was looking and ask them if I was on the right track. They don't have to give you a hint or anything, but to know you're in the right area sometimes encourages a cacher to go back and look again.

[4wheelin_fool]

I have DNFs on my notifications because they are interesting. I recently had 1 find log on a cache of mine, and 18 DNFs posted on other caches at the same time by the same cacher...

 

DNFs are important, but some people are reluctant to post them because it may appear that the cache is missing, and they know that perhaps they didn't look long enough. Other cachers see it as a sign of failure or not worth the time to type it out. If you looked, you should write something even it is just a note.

[DannyCaffeine]

I always log a DNF if I did a dilligent search. Today I went looking for a cache and I was looking for 5 minutes and then got caught in a downpour so I decided to postpone my search. To me it is not worth it to log something like that.

[+power69]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

I do. everytime i come away without finding it, it gets a DNF. i'm not afraid to admit i didn't find it.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

 

Absolutely. No excuses, or quirky reasons. If you looked for the cache, and didn't find it, log a DNF!

Edited April 6, 2010 by BC & MsKitty

[+gururyan]

I have a few DNF's listed, I check them everyday waiting to see if somebody has found the cache or also logs a DNF. Unfortunately, my log is the last entry in each of these. Either nobody has looked (unlikely), or our theory that people won't post a DNF is proving true. I find it frustrating, if you don't find it — say so!

[+L0ne.R]

I have a few DNF's listed, I check them everyday waiting to see if somebody has found the cache or also logs a DNF. Unfortunately, my log is the last entry in each of these. Either nobody has looked (unlikely), or our theory that people won't post a DNF is proving true. I find it frustrating, if you don't find it — say so!

 

Why do you find it frustrating? Maybe people are seeing your DNF and not bothering to look. Maybe they're waiting for the CO to confirm whether it's there or not. Aren't you frustrated with the CO for not checking?

[TeamDragon'sEye]

I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. One example: The cache in question was found every month by more then 10 people. End of january the last "found" was posted. I am rather certain that there were many cachers since then, who couldn't find it. They didn't post. Finally yesterday the first people dared to post a "didn't find", one of them only at his third try! And in fact: The cache is gone missing. Probably since january.

 

Do you agree, that it would be preferable if more people would post a "didn't find"?

 

I dont tend to log a DNF until I feel I have searched adequately. Some searches have been called off due to weather, other commitments or perhaps inappropriate footwear. I will return usually within a week or two for another thorough look. If I still dont find it, then Ill log a DNF.

 

I don't know, how could a Geocache disappear? It couldn't just walk away.

[+BigFurryMonster]

Why as a CO do you desire to see a DNF posted on your cache, if in fact the cache is there?

 

A couple of DNF logs do warn the next cacher that it may be not easy to find my cache. Also, it can make a cacher feel a little bit special when he finds a cache that had a few DNFs before him.

 

I do check on DNF logs from cachers I know, or think are veterans and should be able to find it. This is to make sure the cache is still there.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I've been caching since the start of the year and have no real qualms about logging DNFs.

 

Sometimes I'll make a very brief search which I will not log a DNF. But if I make a serious search effort and turn up nothing then I will log a DNF (and put the cache on my Watchlist to see if anyone else finds it).

 

Sometimes I am pretty sure the DNF is my shortcomings as an inexperienced cacher and/or just a really clever cache and I will note that in the log. But if I spent the time and effort to make the search I'm going to log it.

[+cfever]

I'm a newbie to geocaching and I only logged 1 DNF because it was pretty obvious that the cache site was destroyed by construction work. Honestly I felt really stupid when I can't find a cache and the next day there was a log saying someone else found it right after I looked. I think most newbies feel the same way, slightly embarrassed that they missed the cache.

 

However after reading this thread perhaps I shouldn't feel so embarrassed. The winter is hard on caches and perhaps they were destroyed and the CO needs to know like several of the other posters have suggested. Plus I am still learning all the different tricks for hiding caches. Most of the caches near my home are micros and nanos. I know those are harder to find and it's all part of the game. It wouldn't be fun if we found every cache that we looked for in 10 seconds or less!

[+mawmd]

I cache with my kids who are 9 and 11. Even the older ones are disappointed when we don't find.. I log that so others don 't waste time on tough hikes without a cache at the end. The owner never knows it's missing or moved unless we give feedback, and other cachers would want to know if it's a tough find at the end of a 40 minute hike!

[+Crafty Turtle]

My M.O. is thus:

 

If I did not find, and intend to return later to look again:

I will not log a DNF.

I might need further equipment (canoe, ladder, etc) which was not immediately obvious from the cache page. (some are very very subtle)

I might need to return under the cover of darkness, or when there are far fewer muggles around.

I might have limited time in which to search, necessitating a return visit to search more thoroughly. Similarly it may start to rain or snow, or there may be too much water flowing in the creek/drain, making safety an issue.

 

If I did not find, and have decided to give up, or I am at a location far from home and cannot return:

I log the DNF and I explain my circumstances - to alert subsequent cachers that although I did not find, they still might.

 

If I did not find, after exhaustive searching, but I am determined to find:

I will return several times at different times of day, search further, and will log a DNF for each failed attempt.

I have done this twice, asking the CO directly for further clues. Both these caches were eventually de-listed.

 

I see no sense in logging a DNF on a cache where I didn't even get to GZ, due to an uncrossable lake cos I have no boat, a school group camping in tents surrounding the water-pump I'm supposed to be searching, a slippery rock-face I need to descend that is awash with rain, or a road closed by fire authorities due to bushfire.

I figure if I didn't get near the cache, or have not searched to the best of my ability, then it isn't a DNF, it's a TBA (to be announced) meaning I am done finished yet, so it's too early to call.

 

Some caches I will "scope" before I go. eg a drive-by on my way home to see which park, forest or monument the cache is in. To me, this is not a DNF, this is a reconnoitre. I'm not looking for it, I'm seeing whether I need hiking boots, or if it's a suitable place for my dog, is it safe at night, do I need equipment, etc.

 

So that's about all the reasons why I do not always log a DNF.

[+rjb43nh]

"I noticed that most people do not post a "didn't find". They rather prefer to not post at all. "

Not everyone though. A few days ago I logged 8 DNFs. If I do what I feel is a careful search and don't find a cache, especially a low difficulty one, I will log it as a DNF. Occasionally the next 10 people will find it and say it was easy but generally it is gone.